Mon Dec 24, 2012, 05:28 PM
Deep13 (37,201 posts)
keeping our gun terms straight, list of definitionsLast edited Mon Dec 24, 2012, 05:33 PM USA/ET - Edit history (1)
We are finally having a serious national debate on gun control, so it is important that we get our terms straight. This is not an argument one way or another, just a list of terms.
automatic, "full auto" This is a firearm that shoots continuously when the trigger is depressed, one round after another, until the trigger is released or it runs out of ammunition. These are considered "machine guns" under Federal law and highly regulated and almost nonexistent in the civilian market. "Rounds per minute" ratings refer to full auto only. Examples include mounted machine guns, military grade M16s, M4s, AK47s, and submachine guns like the Thompson and Uzi. semi-automatic, "auto-loading" This is a firearm that shoots ONCE when the trigger is depressed and then loads the next round automatically. One must depress the trigger for each round fired--no continuous shooting. Examples include most handguns, civilian AR-15s, and AK variants, but also many sporting rifles and pistols. There are a few semi-auto shotguns out there too. "Automatic" in the context of a handgun means "semi-automatic." Many of the lowest cost and most common .22s are semi-auto because their construction is less expensive than bolt or lever actions. bolt, lever, or pump action “Action” refers to the way spent cases are ejected and new rounds are loaded. Bolt has a handle at the breech, where the cartridges are loaded near back of the barrel. When moved back by hand, the empty case is ejected. A new case is loaded when one pushes the bolt forward again. With a lever or cowboy style action one uses a lever, usually in the shape of a loop, located behind the trigger for the same purpose. Lever action rifles and shotguns are mechanically complex and expensive. With a pump, it is the same thing except the hand grip is the fore end of the shotgun (usually) or rifle (rarely). It slides forward and backward to change rounds. handgun or pistol Any hand-held (no shoulder stock) firearm with a barrel less than 16". Automatic pistols use the recoil of the previous shot to load the next round into the chamber for firing. They feed from a detachable magazine. Revolvers are an older design that includes a chamber for each round in a rotating, metal cylinder. Finger pressure on the trigger advances the next round into firing position. Handguns use pistol ammunition, which is short and blunt, especially for automatics where they must fit in the handle. Example, .38 Sp., .357 mag., .44 mag. for revolvers and .45acp, 9mm para., .40 S&W for auto-loaders. rifle Technically it is any firearm with grooved channels cut into the inside of the barrel in a spiral pattern to make the bullet spin in flight, including pistols, muskets, cannons, and shotguns. In common parlance, however, and under Federal law, it is a shoulder-mounted firearm that shoots single bullets (not a shotgun) with a barrel greater than 16". Includes military and civilian guns. Proper rifles shoot rifle bullets, which tend to be long and often pointed. Examples include .30-06, .22-250, and .30-30. carbine A short rifle, some of which shoot pistol ammunition. barrel The metal tube where bullets are accelerated from expanding gas. Federal classification often depends on the length of the barrel. chamber The space for the unfired round behind the barrel, ready for shooting. machine gun Under Federal law, it is any firearm capable of automatic fire. Historically, it refers to a mounted firearm capable of automatically shooting rifle bullets or special, large caliber machine gun bullets like .50 BMG. Machine guns are strictly regulated by Federal law and almost no civilians have them. submachine gun A hand or shoulder mounted automatic firearm that shoots pistol ammunition. Examples include Thompson (Tommy gun), UZI, and MP5. shotgun A firearm capable of shooting a number of small pellets at once. Pellet size differs among game animals ranging from very small raven pellets to relatively large 0-0 buck pellets or a single slug projectile. Generally, the larger and more dangerous the intended target, the larger and fewer the projectiles will be. Shotguns can be single shot, double shot (2 barrels), pump, lever, or semiautomatic. Shotguns and their ammunition are described in terms of gauge rather than caliber, with the large 12-gauge being the most typical. assault rifle A lightweight, high-capacity, short rifle capable of firing either full or semi-auto (select fire) and using shortened rifle ammunition such as 5.56mm, 7.62 Russian, or 7.62 NATO. Examples include the M16, M4, and AK47. Civilian grade (i.e., not as tough as military specifications) semi-auto only versions are NOT assault rifles, even if they look just like their military counterparts. battle rifle These are full sized, long rifles that take full-length rifle ammunition. They are rugged for military use and can be bolt action, semi-auto or full auto depending on when they were first issued. The USA’s main battle rifle in W.W.I was the 1903 bolt-action Springfield in .30-06. In W.W.II, it was the semi-auto M-1 Garand Springfield also in .30-06. assault weapon This is a term created by legislators and the news media to refer to high-capacity, military-style firearms. As it has no historic meaning, the definition is whatever the legislative authority says it is. Under the 1994 Federal Assault Weapons Ban, any semiautomatic firearm with a detachable magazine holding more than 10 rounds of ammunition was an “assault weapon.” It also greatly restricted certain accessories that Members of Congress felt were of military rather than sporting purposes. These included flash-hiders, folding stocks, and bayonets. These rules applied to any firearm regardless of caliber or basic configuration. So a high-capacity AR-15 was not allowed and neither were pistols or .22s with detachable magazines holding more than 10 rounds. high capacity magazine This refers to the number of rounds that a detachable magazine can hold. Be aware that not all guns use detachable magazines. There are two ways of defining this term. The first is to apply an across the board capacity, say ten rounds, to all magazines regardless of model or caliber. Anything in excess of that is high capacity. The 1994 Federal AWB defined any magazine capable of holding more than ten rounds as high capacity and illegal for civilians. So, all auto-pistols, sporting .22s, and Ar15s were limited to 10 rounds. The other method is to define it from the manufacturer’s perspective. Firearms are designed to hold a certain number of rounds. Those are normal capacity. Magazines that exceed those amounts are high capacity, because they exceed what is normal for that gun. The Ruger 10/22 rimfire rifle comes with a 10-round magazine that fits flush with the stock. The rifle was designed around that magazine, which is, therefore, normal for that gun. Ruger also makes a 25-round banana clip for it that sticks out of the stock several inches. It works fine, but it completely changes the ergonomics of the rifle. The 25-rounder is, therefore, high capacity. Since many pistols are designed to hold in excess of 15 rounds and AR15s typically use 30-round magazines, gun control proponents tend to prefer the across-the-board limit rather than allowing “assault weapons” to continue using their “normal” magazines. caliber The diameter of either the bullet or the gun barrel expressed as decimal fractions of an inch, .38 sp, .223 Rem, .45 ACP. The letters that follow the number indicate inventing company (.308 Win for Winchester) or some specific characteristic (.357 magnum, meaning large). By convention, .36 caliber bullets are referred to as .38 as in the cases of .38 Special, .38 Super Automatic, or .380acp. If the caliber has a pair of numbers, it refers to year of first production (.30-06 from 1906) or case capacity (.45-70 for 70 grains of black gunpowder). Caliber can also be expressed in millimeters such as 7mm Mauser. If the millimeter caliber has two numbers, the second one is the length of the case. For example 9x19, a.k.a. 9mm parabellum, a.k.a. 9mm Lugar should not be confused with 9x17. Sometimes the same cartridge has inch sizes in the USA and millimeter sizes in Europe, for example .380acp and 9x17, a.k.a. 9mm Kurtz are the same round. cartridge In modern parlance “cartridge” implicitly means “metallic cartridge” and refers to the shell case, primer, smokeless gunpowder, and bullet all as a single unit. Sometimes they are generically called “rounds” as are plain bullets. Primers are either center fire with a priming cap in the center of the base of the casing. Otherwise they are rimfire with the priming material (mercury fulminate) around the rim of the case. Center fire is highly reliable. Rimfire is less so, but inexpensive and is reserved for very small calibers. bullet The projectile part of the cartridge. They are usually made of lead, though other materials are available, and covered with a copper coating. They come in a variety of shapes for various purposes. .22LR or just “twenty-two” 0.22 Long Rifle, for rifles and handguns, is the single most common and least expensive cartridge in the world. They consist of a quarter inch wide lead slug, sometimes with a copper coating (not an actual copper jacket) at the end of a ½” copper case. To reduce costs, they are rimfire. They are slow, not powerful, and have limited accuracy. They also have very limited lethality making them unsuitable for most crimes or self defense. One can kill with a .22, but not easily. Due to their low cost, low recoil, and low noise, however, they are a favorite for recreational shooters, Olympic target shooters (the biathalon is .22), juvenile training, and very small game. The vast majority of rimfire ammunition is .22LR (there are some others) and it is its own category of ammunition (handgun, rifle, shotgun, rimfire).
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39 replies, 1245 views
| Author | Time | Post | |
| Deep13 | Dec 2012 | OP | |
| Cooley Hurd | Dec 2012 | #1 | |
| Deep13 | Dec 2012 | #4 | |
| cantbeserious | Dec 2012 | #2 | |
| Deep13 | Dec 2012 | #3 | |
| cantbeserious | Dec 2012 | #6 | |
| Angry Dragon | Dec 2012 | #5 | |
| cantbeserious | Dec 2012 | #7 | |
| Angry Dragon | Dec 2012 | #12 | |
| Lady Freedom Returns | Dec 2012 | #29 | |
| ZombieHorde | Dec 2012 | #8 | |
| spin | Dec 2012 | #13 | |
| Paladin | Dec 2012 | #9 | |
| sarisataka | Dec 2012 | #10 | |
| Lizzie Poppet | Dec 2012 | #14 | |
| OneTenthofOnePercent | Dec 2012 | #20 | |
| Deep13 | Dec 2012 | #25 | |
| Motown_Johnny | Dec 2012 | #11 | |
| dickthegrouch | Dec 2012 | #15 | |
| Deep13 | Dec 2012 | #26 | |
| Lady Freedom Returns | Dec 2012 | #30 | |
| shireen | Dec 2012 | #16 | |
| Arkansas Granny | Dec 2012 | #17 | |
| gulliver | Dec 2012 | #18 | |
| OneTenthofOnePercent | Dec 2012 | #19 | |
| Deep13 | Dec 2012 | #27 | |
| Maine-ah | Dec 2012 | #21 | |
| Lady Freedom Returns | Dec 2012 | #32 | |
| me b zola | Dec 2012 | #22 | |
| Deep13 | Dec 2012 | #28 | |
| me b zola | Dec 2012 | #38 | |
| Lady Freedom Returns | Dec 2012 | #33 | |
| me b zola | Dec 2012 | #36 | |
| burrowowl | Dec 2012 | #23 | |
| Hugabear | Dec 2012 | #24 | |
| Deep13 | Dec 2012 | #31 | |
| Hugabear | Dec 2012 | #39 | |
| Lady Freedom Returns | Dec 2012 | #34 | |
| RetroLounge | Dec 2012 | #35 | |
| intaglio | Dec 2012 | #37 |
Response to Deep13 (Original post)
Mon Dec 24, 2012, 05:29 PM
Cooley Hurd (20,625 posts)
1. Rec for facts...
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I still think they should be heavily regulated, though...
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Response to Cooley Hurd (Reply #1)
Mon Dec 24, 2012, 05:32 PM
Deep13 (37,201 posts)
4. I'm not making an argument. nt
Response to Deep13 (Original post)
Mon Dec 24, 2012, 05:31 PM
cantbeserious (1,966 posts)
2. Having A Dictionary Does Not Bring The Dead Back From Eternity - Repeal The 2nd Amendment Now!
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eom
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Response to cantbeserious (Reply #2)
Mon Dec 24, 2012, 05:32 PM
Deep13 (37,201 posts)
3. For the record, neither does having a Bible. nt
Response to Deep13 (Reply #3)
Mon Dec 24, 2012, 05:37 PM
cantbeserious (1,966 posts)
6. No Reference Was Made To Religion - Only The Fact That Guns Kill Permanently And Forever
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eom
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Response to cantbeserious (Reply #2)
Mon Dec 24, 2012, 05:35 PM
Angry Dragon (24,073 posts)
5. .........
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Response to Angry Dragon (Reply #5)
Mon Dec 24, 2012, 05:39 PM
cantbeserious (1,966 posts)
7. Your Thumbs Down Will Not Deter Americans That Have Had Enough Of The NRA And Gun Apologists
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eom
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Response to cantbeserious (Reply #7)
Mon Dec 24, 2012, 06:03 PM
Angry Dragon (24,073 posts)
12. Getting rid of the second will not solve anything
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there will still be the hate and killing, just different means
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Response to cantbeserious (Reply #2)
Tue Dec 25, 2012, 01:12 AM
Lady Freedom Returns (4,450 posts)
29. If one can not speak the lingo, it is hard to make a real argument.
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Things can slip by if we don't know what the other side is saying.
This list is a good idea. Know the enemy. |
Response to Deep13 (Original post)
Mon Dec 24, 2012, 05:39 PM
ZombieHorde (23,839 posts)
8. Thanks for the terms. I will try to remember them for my DU debates. nt
Response to ZombieHorde (Reply #8)
Mon Dec 24, 2012, 06:09 PM
spin (14,728 posts)
13. Good if we have a back and forth I will not have to spend time trying to explain simple terms.
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Perhaps we can actually have a productive debate.
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Response to Deep13 (Original post)
Mon Dec 24, 2012, 05:45 PM
Paladin (8,667 posts)
9. These Are NRA-Friendly Definitions, As Is Often The Case.
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The "Assault Rifle," "Assault Weapon," and "High Capacity Magazine" definitions are the most obvious examples. Until we can reclaim the vocabulary from the gun militancy movement, we're going to lose. |
Response to Paladin (Reply #9)
Mon Dec 24, 2012, 05:50 PM
sarisataka (2,156 posts)
10. These are the terms accepted within the industry
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To arbitrarily change the definitions only creates confusion and laws which do not fulfill their intent.
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Response to Paladin (Reply #9)
Mon Dec 24, 2012, 06:21 PM
Lizzie Poppet (2,345 posts)
14. Those definitions are absolutely standard, regardless of any NRA usage.
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All of them except for "assault weapon" (which has been pointed out is something of a neologism) have been in standard use for decades. They have nothing to do with one's political position re: gun control.
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Response to Paladin (Reply #9)
Mon Dec 24, 2012, 08:22 PM
OneTenthofOnePercent (6,268 posts)
20. "reclaim the vocabulary" ?!? Hell, gun controllers INVENTED that vocabulary.
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IT'S ALREADY YOURS! Is it really too much to ask that you use technical conisistency with terms you all came up in the drafting of technically oriented legislation?
LOL, you really have no idea about gun control, do you. |
Response to Paladin (Reply #9)
Tue Dec 25, 2012, 01:06 AM
Deep13 (37,201 posts)
25. Those who know about and are around guns...
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...tend to invent the vocabulary.
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Response to Deep13 (Original post)
Mon Dec 24, 2012, 05:50 PM
Motown_Johnny (15,457 posts)
11. Sorry but Civilian grade versions are still assault weapons.
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You got a link for these definitions or are you just making them up?
The fact that military versions can be carried around in extreme weather conditions for long periods of time and still operate is not a factor. The civilian versions are typically stored inside and carried in a case. The demands on these weapons are far less than something being utilized in a war zone. The capabilities are what counts here and these weapons have nearly identical capabilities (on semi auto). |
Response to Deep13 (Original post)
Mon Dec 24, 2012, 07:10 PM
dickthegrouch (1,227 posts)
15. Completely Irrelevant
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The only definition we need is
Tool for Killing |
Response to dickthegrouch (Reply #15)
Tue Dec 25, 2012, 01:07 AM
Deep13 (37,201 posts)
26. True only if the goal is a complete firearm ban...
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...and I think you know that is not going to happen.
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Response to dickthegrouch (Reply #15)
Tue Dec 25, 2012, 01:15 AM
Lady Freedom Returns (4,450 posts)
30. Not when talking to the enemy.
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They are nit pickers and we have to spell it out for them to understand. We need to know this stuff. If not, they could slip something by us.
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Response to Deep13 (Original post)
Mon Dec 24, 2012, 07:20 PM
shireen (7,467 posts)
16. thank you, it's useful
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Your effort and intent in doing this is appreciated.
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Response to Deep13 (Original post)
Mon Dec 24, 2012, 07:45 PM
Arkansas Granny (14,620 posts)
17. Thanks. I've bookmarked this thread.
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There have been some posters who seen to feel that ones entire argument for gun control can be negated if the incorrect terminology is used.
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Response to Deep13 (Original post)
Mon Dec 24, 2012, 08:05 PM
gulliver (8,524 posts)
18. Interesting, but remember that Jerry Sandusky probably knows football pretty well.
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If Sandusky tried to say that he should be allowed to shower with young boys because it will help them with their football careers, we wouldn't say that someone who doesn't know football shouldn't question him.
To me, gun knowledge is no more impressive than, say, Pokemon or knowing how to barbecue food well on a grill. If gun knowledge is used to elucidate an argument, it is always ok with me. But I don't approve of using any knowledge to evade guilt or blame or to intimidate people with what amounts to psuedo-intellectual posturing. I'm not saying that is the aim of your post, btw. |
Response to Deep13 (Original post)
Mon Dec 24, 2012, 08:19 PM
OneTenthofOnePercent (6,268 posts)
19. I don't see disconnector, autosear RDIAS, Linear Inertial Device (mass decoupler)...
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rimfire, centerfire, ... the list goes on.
I give your list a B- lol. |
Response to OneTenthofOnePercent (Reply #19)
Tue Dec 25, 2012, 01:09 AM
Deep13 (37,201 posts)
27. Fortunately, this is not a graded paper...
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...and you are not my instructor.
These are terms I thought relevant to the political debate. You are free to add your own, of course. |
Response to Deep13 (Original post)
Mon Dec 24, 2012, 08:44 PM
Maine-ah (9,866 posts)
21. great post, Deep13
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If we are to make an argument for more gun regulations, or bans on specific guns, we should know what we're talking about.
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Response to Maine-ah (Reply #21)
Tue Dec 25, 2012, 01:17 AM
Lady Freedom Returns (4,450 posts)
32. +1 n/t
Response to Deep13 (Original post)
Mon Dec 24, 2012, 08:50 PM
me b zola (17,384 posts)
22. Here is my definition of what the fuck ever
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Thing built with the only expectation is of taking a life. Do we need those things in the community? I find a large difference between protecting oneself and the desire to own a hand gun and the fantasies of blowing another human being's head off.
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Response to me b zola (Reply #22)
Tue Dec 25, 2012, 01:12 AM
Deep13 (37,201 posts)
28. So we should not know what we are talking about?
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I see people agruing for bans on assault rifles. Well those are already illegal, so a ban would do nothing. Or people argue for bans on semiautomatics. Maybe that's what they want, but I suspect many think that will cover AR15s, AKs and nothing else. Not true.
The only way terminology is irrelevant is if you are arguing for a complete ban on gun possession and the SCOTUS has already ruled that unconstitutional. |
Response to Deep13 (Reply #28)
Tue Dec 25, 2012, 04:34 AM
me b zola (17,384 posts)
38. I'm saying that we need to have a talk
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The big "WE", as in U.S.
I'm saying that there is a difference between self defense and the romanticized US notion of killing the bad guy. Statistics show that people are in many cases less safe by owning a fire arm, and it is insane to fire a weapon in a suburban/uban environment (yes, yes, I know how each and everyone is an expert marksman). I'm saying that weapons made for the express purpose of killing human beings should not be in our streets nor in our homes. I'm saying that we would be safer without these weapons and I don't give a crap about a weapon's name, just what its intended purpose is. |
Response to me b zola (Reply #22)
Tue Dec 25, 2012, 01:20 AM
Lady Freedom Returns (4,450 posts)
33. You do relies the other side can not understand a word of that?
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We need to know what the other side is talking about. They will use us not knowing to their advantage.
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Response to Lady Freedom Returns (Reply #33)
Tue Dec 25, 2012, 04:11 AM
me b zola (17,384 posts)
36. I have owned firearms and know how to talk about them...if I choose to
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but at this point I don't feel the need to have to impress anybody. I simply want people to consider the difference between self defense and the romanticization of taking another person's life.
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Response to Deep13 (Original post)
Mon Dec 24, 2012, 10:20 PM
burrowowl (8,952 posts)
23. Thanks for defintions!
Response to Deep13 (Original post)
Mon Dec 24, 2012, 10:25 PM
Hugabear (9,847 posts)
24. There's only ONE definition that should matter
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GUN: weapon for killing people
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Response to Hugabear (Reply #24)
Tue Dec 25, 2012, 01:15 AM
Deep13 (37,201 posts)
31. Wrong.
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That's only true if you are arguing on a complete ban on gun possession, something that has no chance of passing in Congress and something SCOTUS has already struck down.
Even so, you are wrong in your assumption. A lot of guns are not designed with humans in mind. .22-250 rifles are exclusively for long range, small animal hunting/pest control. An Olympic target .22 is exclusively for Olympic-style target shooting. A .22 pistol has a few uses, but it was not designed for killing people--in fact it would be difficult to do so with one. |
Response to Deep13 (Reply #31)
Tue Dec 25, 2012, 08:52 AM
Hugabear (9,847 posts)
39. So if I shoot someone with one of those .22 guns, it would not kill?
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Pretty sure I've read just the opposite, that a .22 round can have a very nasty effect on a person.
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Response to Hugabear (Reply #24)
Tue Dec 25, 2012, 01:22 AM
Lady Freedom Returns (4,450 posts)
34. You should know by know that that diff does not compute as a problem to the other side. n/t
Response to Deep13 (Original post)
Tue Dec 25, 2012, 01:24 AM
RetroLounge (36,690 posts)
35. keeping our gun porn straight
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RL |
Response to Deep13 (Original post)
Tue Dec 25, 2012, 04:12 AM
intaglio (4,635 posts)
37. There are problems with your glossary
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The most obvious is the acceptance of the term "automatic" as referring only to self loading weapons with no interrupter. In Europe where the term SLR for long guns and carbines is often preferred, such use of automatic for "fully automatic" rifle might be acceptable but leaves no over-arching term to describe all personal weapons operating on that automatic cycle.
I have 3 main concerns with the use of the term automatic only to refer to a weapon that fires without an interrupter. The first is engineering; the mechanisms of semi-auto, full auto and burst fire weapons is the same bar 1 detail i.e. the presence or absence of an automatic interrupter. If the interrupter fails (very rare but it does happen) your semi auto or burst fire weapon turns into a machine gun. The second is semantic; as I note above the use of automatic only for fully auto weapons leaves no term to describe all weapons using automatic cycle. Leaving automatic in it its original sense allows semi automatic (fire) (weapon), fully automatic (fire) (weapon) and burst fire (automatic). Note that the bracketed words are not always used but are implicit in the phrases. With your usage burst fire would have to be refered to as something ugly and confusing like peri automatic. The third is historic: weapons producers have historically referred to all weapons with the automatic cycle as automatic - hence the usage of automatic pistol. The other problems also stem from the false attribution of the word automatic; just look at your definitions of "machine gun", "sub-machine gun", "assault rifle", "assault weapon" and "battle rifle". It also leads to confusion about the term "selective fire" Then there are the shotguns such as the Saiga 12 and the AA 12 ... You might also want to include the word round as an alternative for cartridge. |

