Mon Dec 24, 2012, 01:07 PM

Here's a punch in the face from Thomas Jefferson to today's 2nd amendment crowd

"Some men look at constitutions with sanctimonious reverence, and deem them like the ark of the Covenant, too sacred to be touched. They ascribe to the men of the preceding age a wisdom more than human, and suppose what they did to be beyond amendment… laws and institutions must go hand in hand with the progress of the human mind… as that becomes more developed, more enlightened, as new discoveries are made, institutions must advance also, to keep pace with the times… We might as well require a man to wear still the coat which fitted him when a boy as civilized society to remain forever under the regimen of their barbarous ancestors."
-- Thomas Jefferson, on reform of the Virginia Constitution

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162 replies	Author	Time	Post
Here's a punch in the face from Thomas Jefferson to today's 2nd amendment crowd (Original post)	MightyMopar	Dec 2012	OP
how will the gun worshippers square this with their love of Scalia and Thomas!?	villager	Dec 2012	#1
Jefferson was against the Constitution to begin with, for that matter	Recursion	Dec 2012	#2
Turned all those French guns, navy and soldiers were needed.	MightyMopar	Dec 2012	#5
Virginia Milita outnumberd the French Army	happyslug	Dec 2012	#78
Benjamin Franklin was the Ambassador to France	Ian62	Dec 2012	#81
Not during the Constitutional Convention. He came back; Jefferson replaced him.	Recursion	Dec 2012	#82
Oh Jeez. Jefferson did not draft the Constitution.	JackRiddler	Dec 2012	#144
Your timeline is a little screwed up.	Bucky	Dec 2012	#160
If I recall correctly, he wanted all legislation to have an	Ed Suspicious	Dec 2012	#3
More or less correct	nadinbrzezinski	Dec 2012	#4
That's more in line to how the French constitution works.	vaberella	Dec 2012	#150
Photo of yahoos standing in line this weekend hoping to buy an assault weapon, a week after tragedy.	Hoyt	Dec 2012	#6
I haven't seen that many mad white people since they cancelled Cheers.	Erose999	Dec 2012	#9
You just had to go there, didn't you?	ChisolmTrailDem	Dec 2012	#16
Hmmm - that's the first thing I noticed. All a bunch of white men standing in that line.	calimary	Dec 2012	#112
Yuk	amuse bouche	Dec 2012	#12
I have to love your user name. How come you chose it (I know what it means...)?	CTyankee	Dec 2012	#15
Certain restaurants in France call appetizers "amuse bouche" I found that pretty funny.	stevenleser	Dec 2012	#97
I am sure he/she did.	CTyankee	Dec 2012	#110
Not to get too technical	Tsiyu	Dec 2012	#162
Thanks	amuse bouche	Dec 2012	#122
A lovely philosophy! I'm just jealous that I didn't think of it...	CTyankee	Dec 2012	#128
what a sad photo! All those young men with no dreams, no hopes...probably no future...	CTyankee	Dec 2012	#17
And a young woman with a stroller/baby carriage.....	tpsbmam	Dec 2012	#26
a sad commentary on utter hopelessness in american life today...	CTyankee	Dec 2012	#30
there brave sacrifice for their country is evident	samsingh	Dec 2012	#27
If They Were Brown or Black	otohara	Dec 2012	#32
They'd be "gangbangers" and their deaths would be celebrated with Gungeon happy dances	MightyMopar	Dec 2012	#35
Do You Have The Link to This	otohara	Dec 2012	#36
It's Atlanta journal, search under line for gun show.	Hoyt	Dec 2012	#54
What do you supposed the collective IQ is of this group?	pangaia	Dec 2012	#37
What do you suppose it was, and why?	Recursion	Dec 2012	#83
Just means more guns to confiscate when the mandatory sanity tests begin... NT	_Liann_	Dec 2012	#38
before you were saying tests for mental illness, now you're saying tests for sanity, which?	CreekDog	Dec 2012	#44
The most astoundingly bad photoshop hack job forever....	cliffordu	Dec 2012	#84
You think it is fake? Proof?	Logical	Dec 2012	#94
Sorry, my friend, but it's no photoshop. Atlanta Journal Constitution has photo above and others.	Hoyt	Dec 2012	#96
"Wheeling out cases of ammunition"	pitbullgirl1965	Dec 2012	#101
yup	Skittles	Dec 2012	#85
Look at all those pathetic losers.	Zoeisright	Dec 2012	#86
What the hell is wrong with those people?	tavalon	Dec 2012	#93
Look like future terrorists to me!	pitbullgirl1965	Dec 2012	#98
All testoserone filled youngish white males	Cherchez la Femme	Dec 2012	#108
Idjits.	SunSeeker	Dec 2012	#109
I'm sorry...this pic reaffirms why at times White men scare the shit out of me.	vaberella	Dec 2012	#151
Seems equal opportunity to me. I can imagine turned on free speech advocates just as well.	TheKentuckian	Dec 2012	#7
I can't help but wonder what lies in between all the dots...	Tuesday Afternoon	Dec 2012	#92
Nothing that alters the message conveyed.	gcomeau	Dec 2012	#105
...and a jab to ribs to the 1st. Amendment crowd.	OneMoreDemocrat	Dec 2012	#8
Most other advanced nations have some variation of freedom of speech, guns not so much	MightyMopar	Dec 2012	#10
I don't really have a dog in this fight...	OneMoreDemocrat	Dec 2012	#14
Witness Nancy Lanza (n/t)	Tab	Dec 2012	#21
Cant she's dead...	OneMoreDemocrat	Dec 2012	#46
Obvious point is obvious.	Iggo	Dec 2012	#127
They have some variation of freedom of speech,	JoeyT	Dec 2012	#23
Our Constitution is outdated, IMO. And we have sacralized it to such a point that we cannot	CTyankee	Dec 2012	#34
We can add amendments to it.	JoeyT	Dec 2012	#39
Yes, being able to add amendments is a saving grace. Being able to establish constitutonal rights	CTyankee	Dec 2012	#47
Amen to that.	JoeyT	Dec 2012	#64
This.	a2liberal	Dec 2012	#111
The larger question	pipoman	Dec 2012	#124
And due process crowd.	Igel	Dec 2012	#11
So you think slaveholders and ethnic cleansers wrote a better consititution than we could do today?	MightyMopar	Dec 2012	#19
I shudder to think what kind of constitution "we" would come up with today.	Bake	Dec 2012	#25
Like there wasn't fear in 1786? Let's keep the failing system we have	MightyMopar	Dec 2012	#29
Well, given what you object to,	JoeyT	Dec 2012	#42
There's still an inherent need for freedom of speech	Major Nikon	Dec 2012	#69
Can't argue with that...	OneMoreDemocrat	Dec 2012	#88
Since you mention Jefferson don't ignore he and Madison wrote the KY & VA Resolutions and proposed	jody	Dec 2012	#13
Sorry to dash your hopes but Alabama (or any other state for that matter) will NOT secede	2ndAmForComputers	Dec 2012	#152
you really want to play Jefferson quotes? Careful now...	green for victory	Dec 2012	#18
That was before drones, robots and satellite driven tanks	MightyMopar	Dec 2012	#20
Please quote accurately from your own source.	mbperrin	Dec 2012	#24
Good catch.	secondvariety	Dec 2012	#55
And another Gungeoneer exhibits	billh58	Dec 2012	#31
How many handheld guns would it take to stop one of these?	SWTORFanatic	Dec 2012	#33
Nuff said!	paleotn	Dec 2012	#45
That's strange, in Civilization Revolution I have had tanks and bombers shot down...	MessiahRp	Dec 2012	#114
Seems the Afghans have put up a pretty	pipoman	Dec 2012	#126
Even if I accept your premise (I don't), they ain't winning with guns	SWTORFanatic	Dec 2012	#131
Which is mitigated by the quote in the OP	Doctor_J	Dec 2012	#40
And the quote in the OP means he knew that future generations would be different,	NYC Liberal	Dec 2012	#59
Tell that to Scalia	evilhime	Dec 2012	#22
Dumbest Thing About "Originalism"	ProfessorGAC	Dec 2012	#120
Thanks!	boomer55	Dec 2012	#28
Stealing this....great find!	rppper	Dec 2012	#41
That just doesn't sound right	Gman	Dec 2012	#43
Fuck that slave-owning piece of shit.	harmonicon	Dec 2012	#48
Include George Washington and many others. nt	jody	Dec 2012	#50
Washington's definitely included in "his ilk." (nt)	harmonicon	Dec 2012	#87
You conflate Constitution with Rights. BOR does not create rights because they preexist our	jody	Dec 2012	#49
So, Are You Saying That Owning Firearms Is A God Given Right or a Man Made Right?	cantbeserious	Dec 2012	#51
I don't need to say anything, PA, VT, & other states have said all that needs to be said. SCOTUS	jody	Dec 2012	#60
Thank You For Ducking The Question - Your Non Answer Speaks Volume About What you Believe	cantbeserious	Dec 2012	#65
And your inability to read and understand our Constitution, state constitutions, and SCOTUS opinions	jody	Dec 2012	#68
What I Believe And Know Is That All Law Is Not Writ In Stone - A Point That You Fail To Appreciate	cantbeserious	Dec 2012	#71
SCOTUS since 1876 has answered that question and given the courts preference for stare decisis it	jody	Dec 2012	#73
If The American People Decide That They Have Had Enough Of The NRA And Gun Apologists It Can Change	cantbeserious	Dec 2012	#76
Please stick to the OP which talked about our Constitution and the Second Amendment. What you seem to	jody	Dec 2012	#79
If you want judge-made law to last forever...	tabasco	Dec 2012	#91
It's amazing how many people treat the law as if it were a monolithic act of nature...	Larry Ogg	Dec 2012	#118
Excellent point!	Frosty1	Dec 2012	#135
Thank you Frosty1	Larry Ogg	Dec 2012	#159
Rights are not "law" created by our Constitution, e.g. "The right of the people peaceably to	jody	Dec 2012	#156
I agree, rights are not law...	Larry Ogg	Dec 2012	#158
Heres more Jefferson quotes yuou usually don't hear	MightyMopar	Dec 2012	#53
Nothing in your quote suggests rejecting rights that states have declared are natural, inherent,	jody	Dec 2012	#62
Yes And We Have Already Established Your Preferences - Rights Are Bestowed By Man - Not God	cantbeserious	Dec 2012	#67
What you or I or others believe about rights doesn't matter. SCOTUS since 1876 has answered that	jody	Dec 2012	#70
Precedent Can Be Overturned With New Precedent - No Law Lasts Forever - It Is Fundamental	cantbeserious	Dec 2012	#72
Given the courts preference for stare decisis it seems unlikely that it will reverse its decision in	jody	Dec 2012	#74
If The American People Decide That They Have Had Enough Of The NRA And Gun Apologists It Can Change	cantbeserious	Dec 2012	#77
See #79 nt	jody	Dec 2012	#80
I have a right to be secure in my person. That right conflicts with the second amendment.	stevenleser	Dec 2012	#99
The issue is for the states to decide since they represented their citizens and delegated limited	jody	Dec 2012	#100
It's an issue that very well may be decided at the SCOTUS. Hopefully one with 5 or more Liberal	stevenleser	Dec 2012	#102
If Heller were reversed, the dissent by Stevens and 3 other justices recognize RKBA was declared	jody	Dec 2012	#103
Slavery was upheld multiple times too. Anachronisms like slavery and 'right to guns' eventually go	stevenleser	Dec 2012	#119
Along with all the other enunerated & unenumerated rights government is supposed to	jody	Dec 2012	#138
I'm sure you would have wanted to protect the right to own a slave and to keep women from voting	stevenleser	Dec 2012	#141
Are you unable to conduct an intelligent discussion without insults? Goodbye nt	jody	Dec 2012	#142
Expect that kind of response if you are arguing original intent issues. That is what that means. nt	stevenleser	Dec 2012	#143
Jefferson - One Brilliant Man - Repeal The 2nd Amendment Now - Outlaw All Firearms	cantbeserious	Dec 2012	#52
I think we can gradually cut back the gun culture like we did the tobacco culture	MightyMopar	Dec 2012	#58
Yes - Society, Attitudes and Expectations Can Change - The 2nd Amendment Is Not Cast In Stone	cantbeserious	Dec 2012	#66
Do puritanical bigots hate guns? (nt)	harmonicon	Dec 2012	#95
Bigot: a person who is obstinately or intolerantly devoted to his or her own opinions and prejudices	jody	Dec 2012	#106
Because it's puritanical bigots who pushed through anti-tobacco laws.	harmonicon	Dec 2012	#113
Wait, you mean we can think?	Gregorian	Dec 2012	#56
In those days, the "liberals", like Jefferson, were for small government.	NYC Liberal	Dec 2012	#57
I never thought that 'small govt' meant size of govt or govt agencies,	JaneyVee	Dec 2012	#121
That is true as well.	NYC Liberal	Dec 2012	#147
The Original Intent According To Thomas Jefferson	DallasNE	Dec 2012	#61
Except our Constitution does not grant rights. nt	jody	Dec 2012	#63
Really, those Amendments do not grant rights? Oh do tell...	MessiahRp	Dec 2012	#116
UNITED STATES v. CRUIKSHANK ET AL. 92 U.S. 542 (1876)	jody	Dec 2012	#117
Non-Constitutional law can be challenged and considering that ruling is outdated	MessiahRp	Dec 2012	#139
"outdated" shows you aren't well informed. Read SCOTUS opinion, dissent, and amicus briefs for	jody	Dec 2012	#145
So a right wing court agrees with your gun hawkishness and you consider that vindication?	MessiahRp	Dec 2012	#153
Goodbye. nt	jody	Dec 2012	#154
If God doesn't work for you then how about sentient aspect of the universe?	TheKentuckian	Dec 2012	#132
This statement should be true...	Godot51	Dec 2012	#75
rec 101	Divine Discontent	Dec 2012	#89
Great quote...	ProudProgressiveNow	Dec 2012	#90
If only this Jefferson statement was better known to more Americans than this one...	radarluv	Dec 2012	#104
The problem with "from time to time" is that those who despise the current leaders in government	MessiahRp	Dec 2012	#115
So much for the theory of originalism.	Kablooie	Dec 2012	#107
Gun control is like trying to reduce drunk driving by making it tougher for sober people to own cars	matchoo	Dec 2012	#123
Guns are part of the problem, so let's include them in the solution.	Hoyt	Dec 2012	#129
See, ol' TJ just didn't understand the Gun Boner.	Iggo	Dec 2012	#125
Amendment II.	Angry Dragon	Dec 2012	#130
Actually	pipoman	Dec 2012	#136
UMMMMM ..........	Angry Dragon	Dec 2012	#137
The larger question nicely avoided..	pipoman	Dec 2012	#148
"A well regulated militia, being necessary to the security of a free state, the right of the people	jody	Dec 2012	#146
Welcome MightyMopar to DU and touche on the OP.	Jefferson23	Dec 2012	#133
Thank you for the warm welcome	MightyMopar	Dec 2012	#157
That's a 200+ year thumb in scalia's eye.	Javaman	Dec 2012	#134
If the constitution was not intended...	awoke_in_2003	Dec 2012	#140
Coming from a man that helped inact slavery but was "in love" with a Black woman.	vaberella	Dec 2012	#149
My white cousin married a black free woman circa 1850. Their descendants are my dearest friends and	jody	Dec 2012	#155
This quote is handy for many reasons. Thank you!	Care Acutely	Dec 2012	#161

Response to MightyMopar (Original post)

Mon Dec 24, 2012, 01:09 PM

villager (18,987 posts)

Here's a punch in the face from Thomas Jefferson to today's 2nd amendment crowd

1. how will the gun worshippers square this with their love of Scalia and Thomas!?

2. Jefferson was against the Constitution to begin with, for that matter

5. Turned all those French guns, navy and soldiers were needed.

78. Virginia Milita outnumberd the French Army

81. Benjamin Franklin was the Ambassador to France

82. Not during the Constitutional Convention. He came back; Jefferson replaced him.

144. Oh Jeez. Jefferson did not draft the Constitution.

160. Your timeline is a little screwed up.

3. If I recall correctly, he wanted all legislation to have an

4. More or less correct

150. That's more in line to how the French constitution works.

6. Photo of yahoos standing in line this weekend hoping to buy an assault weapon, a week after tragedy.

9. I haven't seen that many mad white people since they cancelled Cheers.

16. You just had to go there, didn't you?

112. Hmmm - that's the first thing I noticed. All a bunch of white men standing in that line.

12. Yuk

15. I have to love your user name. How come you chose it (I know what it means...)?

97. Certain restaurants in France call appetizers "amuse bouche" I found that pretty funny.

110. I am sure he/she did.

162. Not to get too technical

122. Thanks

128. A lovely philosophy! I'm just jealous that I didn't think of it...

17. what a sad photo! All those young men with no dreams, no hopes...probably no future...

26. And a young woman with a stroller/baby carriage.....

30. a sad commentary on utter hopelessness in american life today...

27. there brave sacrifice for their country is evident

32. If They Were Brown or Black

35. They'd be "gangbangers" and their deaths would be celebrated with Gungeon happy dances

36. Do You Have The Link to This

54. It's Atlanta journal, search under line for gun show.

37. What do you supposed the collective IQ is of this group?

83. What do you suppose it was, and why?

38. Just means more guns to confiscate when the mandatory sanity tests begin... NT

44. before you were saying tests for mental illness, now you're saying tests for sanity, which?

84. The most astoundingly bad photoshop hack job forever....

94. You think it is fake? Proof?

96. Sorry, my friend, but it's no photoshop. Atlanta Journal Constitution has photo above and others.

101. "Wheeling out cases of ammunition"

85. yup

86. Look at all those pathetic losers.

93. What the hell is wrong with those people?

98. Look like future terrorists to me!

108. All testoserone filled youngish white males

109. Idjits.

151. I'm sorry...this pic reaffirms why at times White men scare the shit out of me.

7. Seems equal opportunity to me. I can imagine turned on free speech advocates just as well.

92. I can't help but wonder what lies in between all the dots...

105. Nothing that alters the message conveyed.

8. ...and a jab to ribs to the 1st. Amendment crowd.

10. Most other advanced nations have some variation of freedom of speech, guns not so much

14. I don't really have a dog in this fight...

21. Witness Nancy Lanza (n/t)

46. Cant she's dead...

127. Obvious point is obvious.

23. They have some variation of freedom of speech,

34. Our Constitution is outdated, IMO. And we have sacralized it to such a point that we cannot

39. We can add amendments to it.

47. Yes, being able to add amendments is a saving grace. Being able to establish constitutonal rights

64. Amen to that.

111. This.

124. The larger question

11. And due process crowd.

19. So you think slaveholders and ethnic cleansers wrote a better consititution than we could do today?

25. I shudder to think what kind of constitution "we" would come up with today.

29. Like there wasn't fear in 1786? Let's keep the failing system we have

42. Well, given what you object to,

69. There's still an inherent need for freedom of speech

88. Can't argue with that...

13. Since you mention Jefferson don't ignore he and Madison wrote the KY & VA Resolutions and proposed

152. Sorry to dash your hopes but Alabama (or any other state for that matter) will NOT secede

18. you *really* want to play Jefferson quotes? Careful now...

20. That was before drones, robots and satellite driven tanks

24. Please quote accurately from your own source.

55. Good catch.

31. And another Gungeoneer exhibits

33. How many handheld guns would it take to stop one of these?

45. Nuff said!

114. That's strange, in Civilization Revolution I have had tanks and bombers shot down...

126. Seems the Afghans have put up a pretty

18. you really want to play Jefferson quotes? Careful now...