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Mon Dec 24, 2012, 10:32 AM

 

NDAA is a direct attack against legitimate protest and dissent

Last edited Mon Dec 24, 2012, 05:46 PM - Edit history (1)

http://ian56.blogspot.co.uk/2012/12/ndaa-indefinite-detention-is-direct.html

The primary purpose of the NDAA indefinite detention provisions is to discourage people exercising their FIRST amendment rights to peaceful dissent of government policies.

The provision to repeal Posse Comitatus is similarly designed to discourage peaceful demonstrations against the government and the exercise of 1st Amendment rights. Armed military are now allowed to perform "law enforcement" on the streets of American cities.
Previously only the Police and the National Guard could do this.
An example of the dangers of this legislation are the protests against NATO in Chicago in May.

These are NOT anti terrorism provisions. They are designed to discourage law abiding Americans from dissenting and protesting against their own government.

The FBI investigates Occupy Wall Street for "Domestic Terrorism" threats.

According to internal documents newly released by the FBI, the agency spearheaded a nationwide law enforcement effort to investigate and monitor the Occupy Wall Street movement. In certain documents, divisions of the FBI refer to the Occupy Wall Street protests as a "criminal activity" or even "domestic terrorism."
The internal papers were obtained by the Partnership for Civil Justice fund via a Freedom of Information Act Request. The fund, a legal nonprofit that focuses on civil rights, says it believes the 112 pages of documents, available for public viewing on its website, are only "the tip of the iceberg."

"This production ... is a window into the nationwide scope of the FBI’s surveillance, monitoring, and reporting on peaceful protestors organizing with the Occupy movement," wrote Mara Verheyden-Hilliard, the fund's executive director, in a press release Saturday.

According to the documents, the FBI coordinated extensively with private companies, including banks, that feared they could be affected by Occupy protests. Occupy, which took root in New York City's Zuccotti Park in September 2011 and spread to cities across the country, targeted corporations and other forces it believed to perpetuate social inequality. The FBI's investigation included the movement's manifestations in New York; Milwaukee; Indianapolis; Anchorage, Alaska; Jacksonville, Fla.; Richmond, Va.; and Memphis, Tenn., among others.

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2012/12/23/fbi-occupy-wall-street_n_2355883.html


NDAA Indefinite Detention Bill Passes Senate After Rand Paul Calls It An 'Abomination'

The Senate passed a version of the National Defense Authorization Act that was stripped of a prohibition of the indefinite military detention of US citizens on American soil by an 81-14 vote on Friday, but only after a furious dissent on the chamber's floor by Sen. Rand Paul (R-Ky.), who called it an "abomination."

The National Defense Authorization Act of 2013 will now head to the White House, which had earlier pledged to veto the NDAA because it prevents the president from closing the Guantanamo Bay detention camp. It is unclear whether the president will follow through on the threat.

The NDAA is a reauthorization of the large budget bill that sets the budget for a wide range of military activities, but it has proven most controversial for a provision that critics say would allow the military to abuse its detention powers to lock Americans away on the mere suspicion of support for terrorist groups.

In November, a bipartisan group of Senators affixed an amendment to the NDAA that would have explicitly prohibited the military from detaining American citizens on US soil. But earlier this week, a House-Senate conference committee led by Sen. John McCain (R-Ariz.) stripped away that measure.

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2012/12/21/ndaa-indefinite-detention-bill-rand-paul_n_2347774.html

N.B. The Feinstein amendment did NOT protect the right to a fair trial for American citizens.

There's A Giant Loophole In The Feinstein Amendment To The NDAA

http://www.businessinsider.com/feinstein-ndaa-amendment-indefinite-detention-2012-11

The lawyers are still mad that the amendment was removed by Committee

http://www.businessinsider.com/lawyers-mad-about-feinstein-amendment-2012-12

More details on the Feinstein amendment actually making things worse. A very good piece.

http://dissenter.firedoglake.com/2012/12/18/the-2013-ndaa-obamas-expansion-of-indefinite-military-detention-powers/


Afran described “under the guise of adding protection for people in the US,” the amendment offered by Sen. Dianne Feinstein makes the problem worse. If the 2013 NDAA is passed by the House and signed by the president, it will mean that people can be detained in the US indefinitely because now it will no longer be subject to interpretation. The law will expressly say people can be held in military detention indefinitely.

Though it was supposedly intended to fix problems created by an indefinite detention provision in the 2012 NDAA, the main aspect of the law being challenged in the courts will not change. All that will change is a regulation will be added that a US citizen or permanent resident must be given a trial.
“What kind of trial will that be? It will be a military trial because that’s the only thing that’s referenced in the NDAA,” said Afran.

There are no regulations in the 2012 law or 2013 amendment governing how a person would get to the civil courts. As Afran explained, “Everyone has a right to habeas corpus but the NDAA does not provide any rules the military has to create as to how a person can use that right.

Robert Bolt and Sir Thomas More speak out against NDAA

More
And go he should, if he were the Devil himself, until he broke the law!
Roper
So, now you give the Devil the benefit of law!
More
Yes! What would you do? Cut a great road through the law to get after the Devil?
Roper
Yes, I'd cut down every law in England to do that!
More
Oh? And when the last law was down, and the Devil turned 'round on you, where would you hide, Roper, the laws all being flat?This country is planted thick with laws, from coast to coast, Man's laws, not God's! And if you cut them down (and you're just the man to do it!), do you really think you could stand upright in the winds that would blow then?
Yes, I'd give the Devil benefit of law, for my own safety's sake!


19 replies, 1371 views

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Arrow 19 replies Author Time Post
Reply NDAA is a direct attack against legitimate protest and dissent (Original post)
Ian62 Dec 2012 OP
woo me with science Dec 2012 #1
ShadesOfBlue Dec 2012 #2
Ian62 Dec 2012 #3
Ian62 Dec 2012 #4
Ian62 Dec 2012 #5
rhett o rick Dec 2012 #6
randome Dec 2012 #7
Ian62 Dec 2012 #12
rhett o rick Dec 2012 #17
woo me with science Dec 2012 #8
Ian62 Dec 2012 #15
sabrina 1 Dec 2012 #10
woo me with science Dec 2012 #9
rhett o rick Dec 2012 #11
Ian62 Dec 2012 #14
happy xenusmas eve Dec 2012 #13
Fire Walk With Me Dec 2012 #16
HiPointDem Dec 2012 #18
Tierra_y_Libertad Dec 2012 #19

Response to Ian62 (Original post)

Mon Dec 24, 2012, 10:45 AM

1. We are in serious trouble in this country. nt

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Response to Ian62 (Original post)

Mon Dec 24, 2012, 10:45 AM

2. you know....

everything is not about Occupy. Regardless of one's views of these government actions we have to get real and understand that they would have been imposed upon us even if Occupy had not formed. You write "similar movements" but so-called similar movements have been around long after Occupy came around and will be here long after Occupy fades away. So let's stop making everything all about those guys. I realize that many of my fellow progressives think Occupy walks on water and have changed the course of this country in ways that "lesser" movements of, say, the 1920s 1960s and 1970s, could never imagine, but sometimes we have to step back and realize that the government isn't always about putting Occupy down. Otherwise what makes us different from the paranoid folks on the right who think the government is trying to take away all of their rights? Well, I suppose I should ask what makes us different OTHER THAN the fact the dudes on the right are much better armed?

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Response to ShadesOfBlue (Reply #2)

Mon Dec 24, 2012, 10:54 AM

3. It is not about Occupy

 

It is about any protest or dissent against ANY government policy.

People will be put off from legitimate protest or dissent whilst the threat of being investigated for "domestic terrorism" and indefinite detention at the whim of the authorities hangs over it.

Occupy is just the best current example of such a protest, I could think of.

The Greeks and the Spaniards have been protesting and rioting against the austerity measures of their own governments. The Greek and the Spanish governments do not have the powers now in the hands of the American government.

If you are not worried now, would you be worried if the GOP got elected in 2016? It would be too late then.

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Response to ShadesOfBlue (Reply #2)

Mon Dec 24, 2012, 11:05 AM

4. What is to stop the government labelling government whistle blowers

 

as "domestic terrorists" and holding them indefinitely?

I can't see anything to stop it.

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Response to ShadesOfBlue (Reply #2)

Mon Dec 24, 2012, 11:16 AM

5. If these laws had been in place during the 1960's would they have been used

 

against the civil rights protests and marches?

Would they have been used to hold Martin Luther King indefinitely as a "domestic terrorist?

Would they have been used to incarcerate Malcolm X indefinitely?

If there was a different President to Kennedy at the time .....

Probably.

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Response to ShadesOfBlue (Reply #2)

Mon Dec 24, 2012, 12:12 PM

6. Of course everything is not about Occupy. And for you to even suggest that means to me

you missed the point of the OP entirely or purposefully trying to distract from the message. Occupy represents We The People protests. The OP is pointing out how our government, in our name, is disregarding the Constitution under the guise of protecting us. They are openly disregarding Posse Comitatus as well as habeas corpus and during a Democratic president's term. As important as this message is, you choose to ignore the point and level disdain towards Occupy. I am a little puzzled that supposedly "politically liberal people" here in DU, would disparage Occupy.

And by the way, in the area of worrying about the sanctity of the Constitution, maybe we do agree with those on the right. What makes us different isnt the so-called paranoia about losing our rights, but the methods to save those rights.

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Response to rhett o rick (Reply #6)

Mon Dec 24, 2012, 12:24 PM

7. Um, the OP subject line specifically portrays this as a 'direct attack' on Occupy.

I think pointing out that this isn't necessarily so is a valid point even if some don't agree with it.

That being said, the indefinite detention provisions are an abomination and need to be vetoed. I hope Obama does that.

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Response to randome (Reply #7)

Mon Dec 24, 2012, 01:20 PM

12. On the same day that NDAA passed in the Senate

 

The story came out, through FOIA request, that the FBI were investigating Occupy for "domestic terrorism".

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Response to randome (Reply #7)

Mon Dec 24, 2012, 04:05 PM

17. Huh? It says, "Occupy & similar movements of peaceful protest & dissent."

To criticize Occupy is a distraction from the main issue.

Shame on Democrats that stand side by side with the right-wing to call Occupy names and ignore the problems they are trying to expose.

I appreciate you recognizing the importance of vetoing this violation of the Constitution.

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Response to rhett o rick (Reply #6)

Mon Dec 24, 2012, 12:26 PM

8. Well said. Thank you. nt

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Response to rhett o rick (Reply #6)

Mon Dec 24, 2012, 01:28 PM

15. Well said

 

.

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Response to ShadesOfBlue (Reply #2)

Mon Dec 24, 2012, 12:31 PM

10. Welcome to DU. The NDAA is meant to quash civil unrest. The Global movement

started in Spain by the Indignados to oppose the criminal Wall St policies known as Austerity inspired the now Global movement known as OWS.

The NDAA most definitely is aimed at any movement that has had so much influence in exposing Wall St which this point in our history, happens to be OWS.

If you know of any other Global Movement then you can include them also.

This movement is only going to grow as the Globalists continue to destroy the economies and attack the independence of sovereign nations.

Over the past month eg, the Spanish version of OWS grew to include almost all of Spains working class, even those who initially remained on the sidelines.

The coordinated global attacks on the movement were proof to anyone observing that this was not isolated to various countries. The US has taken care of their end of it with the NDAA.

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Response to Ian62 (Original post)

Mon Dec 24, 2012, 12:27 PM

9. K&R

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Response to Ian62 (Original post)

Mon Dec 24, 2012, 12:55 PM

11. This is a very important issue. Thank you for posting.

Where did you get the quotes from Robert Bolt and Sir Thomas More?

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Response to rhett o rick (Reply #11)

Mon Dec 24, 2012, 01:25 PM

14. They are from his play & film

 

A Man for All Seasons.

I saw the film as a kid, many many moons ago but still remember it.

The link I used from the net
http://www.radix.net/~bbrown/amfas.html

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Response to Ian62 (Original post)

Mon Dec 24, 2012, 01:23 PM

13. Occupy was rendered kaput as soon as the NATO 5 were totally

 

railroaded. Where are they now? Somewhere in isolation and forgotten? "They" chose OWSers from out of town, probably to avoid having family to speak to the local media and refute the claims!

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Response to Ian62 (Original post)

Mon Dec 24, 2012, 01:33 PM

16. We'll learn much about Obama if he again signs away the Constitution.

 

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Response to Ian62 (Original post)

Mon Dec 24, 2012, 04:11 PM

18. There's a long history of 'panics' & subequent legislation being used to control dissent rather

 

than the 'threat' which supposedly motivated the legislation.

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Response to Ian62 (Original post)

Thu Dec 27, 2012, 03:28 PM

19. Not to worry, Obama will certainly veto it...won't he?

And, the FBI agents who pursued Occupy will be brought to justice along their bosses who authorized them to do so...won't they?

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