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Sun Dec 23, 2012, 08:49 PM

 

who created the 'fiscal cliff,' aka automatic sequestration, in the first place?

The laws leading to the fiscal cliff include the expiration of the 2010 Tax Relief Act and planned spending cuts under the Budget Control Act of 2011.

The Budget Control Act of 2011 (Pub.L. 112-25, S. 365, 125 Stat. 240, enacted August 2, 2011...was signed into law by President Barack Obama on August 2, 2011. The Act brought conclusion to the 2011 United States debt-ceiling crisis, which had threatened to lead the United States into sovereign default...

The law involves the introduction of several complex mechanisms, such as creation of the Congressional Joint Select Committee on Deficit Reduction (sometimes called the "super committee"), options for a balanced budget amendment and automatic budget sequestration.

The House passed the Budget Control Act on August 1, 2011 by a vote of 269161. 174 Republicans and 95 Democrats voted for it, while 66 Republicans and 95 Democrats voted against it.

The Senate passed the Act on August 2, 2011 by a vote of 7426. 6 Democrats and 19 Republicans voted against it.t August 3, 2011./b]

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Budget_Control_Act_of_2011



House votes on S. 365 (Budget Control Act of 2011)by congressional district: Dark blue or red means either Dem or Pub Congressperson voted for it



Senate Votes: Dark purple = both senators voted for it.


In other words, half of House democrats & a majority of Senate democrats voted for automatic sequestration, and the president signed the bill.

A thoroughly bipartisan piece of legislation.
Truly orwellian kabuki going on here.



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Reply who created the 'fiscal cliff,' aka automatic sequestration, in the first place? (Original post)
HiPointDem Dec 2012 OP
HiPointDem Dec 2012 #1
woo me with science Dec 2012 #2
HiPointDem Dec 2012 #5
Stardust Dec 2012 #3
HiPointDem Dec 2012 #4
Stardust Dec 2012 #13
hfojvt Dec 2012 #6
HiPointDem Dec 2012 #7
customerserviceguy Dec 2012 #26
NashvilleLefty Dec 2012 #8
Hekate Dec 2012 #9
HiPointDem Dec 2012 #12
HiPointDem Dec 2012 #10
HiPointDem Dec 2012 #11
adirondacker Dec 2012 #14
HiPointDem Dec 2012 #15
adirondacker Dec 2012 #16
HiPointDem Dec 2012 #17
HiPointDem Dec 2012 #18
HiPointDem Dec 2012 #19
HiPointDem Dec 2012 #20
HiPointDem Dec 2012 #21
woo me with science Dec 2012 #22
HiPointDem Dec 2012 #23
HiPointDem Dec 2012 #24
muriel_volestrangler Dec 2012 #25
DCBob Dec 2012 #28
CJCRANE Dec 2012 #27

Response to HiPointDem (Original post)

Sun Dec 23, 2012, 09:17 PM

1. kick

 

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Response to HiPointDem (Original post)

Sun Dec 23, 2012, 10:12 PM

2. Shhh.

We're on the blue team, and we don't want to hear it.

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Response to woo me with science (Reply #2)

Sun Dec 23, 2012, 11:39 PM

5. i've noticed. looking at who voted for it is interesting too.

 

the fact is that congress imposed this requirement on themselves & could un-impose it through the same process: instead, they're playing this silly game where they pretend that the law they themselves passed is used as if it were imposed by some outside force in order to force more cuts.

or maybe they just passed it to go into effect in two years & decided to play this little game so people would be more grateful worse things didn't happen.

either way, it's farce -- unfortunately, farce that kills.

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Response to HiPointDem (Original post)

Sun Dec 23, 2012, 10:27 PM

3. So who decided to name it "sequestration," anyway? That term doesn't

seem to apply to what's happening.

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Response to Stardust (Reply #3)

Sun Dec 23, 2012, 11:36 PM

4. definition

 

Noun

The action of taking legal possession of assets until a debt has been paid or other claims have been met.
The action of taking forcible possession of something; confiscation.

Synonyms

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Response to HiPointDem (Reply #4)

Tue Dec 25, 2012, 12:51 AM

13. Thank you.

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Response to HiPointDem (Original post)

Sun Dec 23, 2012, 11:45 PM

6. the other diabolical thing seems

that SOME evil genius decided that the sequestration would happen at the same time as the expiration of the Bush tax cuts.

Seems like somebody planned it so they could say "we have to extend the tax cuts for the rich in order to avoid these automatic spending cuts"

In the words of the Church Lady "How convenient".

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Response to hfojvt (Reply #6)

Mon Dec 24, 2012, 12:09 AM

7. yep, it's all pretty convenient.

 

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Response to hfojvt (Reply #6)

Mon Dec 31, 2012, 07:17 AM

26. Or, just piss poor planning

Like two years ago, when the extension of the Bush tax cuts was passed, and the President didn't get a debt ceiling extension at that time. Of course, the timing on both the sequester and the tax cuts was designed to take advantage of the fact that there would be a lame duck session after the 2012 elections. I guess the sharp minds that put that in there thought back to the days when lame duck Congresses were just lame, and not comatose.

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Response to HiPointDem (Original post)

Mon Dec 24, 2012, 12:17 AM

8. well, since you really want to Go There

the whole thing was Obama calling out Republicans on their BS.

The Grand Bargain was set up so that it would be equally distasteful to both parties, and that it would be triggered if an Independent Commission failed to reach a consensus and that the Congress refused to accept that consensus.

However, that Commission was set-up to fail. But, we got a lot of temporary concessions. Obama also set-up a lot of stimulus building plans as a result of his stimulus-building plan. In other words, he got pretty much everything he wanted.

Now, everyone seems focused on the Simpson-Bowles plan which was proposed as an alternative to the failed Fiscal Commission plan. But, most people tend to forget the multiple alternative plans resented by the other members of Commission.

As a negotiator, I have to look at what has been offered and what I am am willing to offer in return.

As a poker player, I have to look at the cards I have been dealt and the pot I have available. And I have to consider how much I want this player to be "in the game" so that I can keep playing him.

Obama must be a master Poker Player. He is playing for the long game, not just for a few wins.

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Response to NashvilleLefty (Reply #8)

Mon Dec 24, 2012, 12:31 AM

9. I believe you have nailed it, Nashville

The way I remember it, the GOP said yes to it, knowing they would get screwed and they would get blamed for any bad consequences if they failed to follow through.

And boy howdy, have they failed to follow through.

Folks here at DU are having such a good time wailing and gnashing their teeth because it is all Obama's fault that (name anything, it's obviously his fault). I don't think any of the despairing ones will listen to what you are saying, but it is pretty much the way I remember it.

The GOP is riding for a fall, and Obama has given away exactly nothing.

Hekate

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Response to Hekate (Reply #9)

Mon Dec 24, 2012, 03:53 AM

12. except he signed financial sequestration into law. iow, he helped create this 'crisis'. he & most

 

of the democrats in congress.

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Response to NashvilleLefty (Reply #8)

Mon Dec 24, 2012, 01:38 AM

10. um - what?

 

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Response to HiPointDem (Reply #10)

Mon Dec 24, 2012, 03:52 AM

11. kick

 

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Response to HiPointDem (Original post)

Tue Dec 25, 2012, 01:05 AM

14. This was a question I had thought about for a while. Thanks for shedding light! n/t

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Response to adirondacker (Reply #14)

Tue Dec 25, 2012, 01:19 AM

15. seems like you're one of the few...

 

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Response to HiPointDem (Reply #15)

Tue Dec 25, 2012, 08:13 AM

16. I do like to think I have pretty good critical thinking skills.

on occasion, I'll admit I get things wrong, but quite often the green light comes on.

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Response to adirondacker (Reply #16)

Thu Dec 27, 2012, 05:05 AM

17. seems like there's a willful disinterest on some people's parts, though. like they want to pretend

 

god dropped the 'fiscal cliff' from the sky or something.

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Response to HiPointDem (Original post)

Thu Dec 27, 2012, 05:33 PM

18. kick

 

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Response to HiPointDem (Reply #18)

Thu Dec 27, 2012, 06:26 PM

19. just don't want to hear it, do you?

 

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Response to HiPointDem (Reply #19)

Thu Dec 27, 2012, 07:25 PM

20. kicking for truth.

 

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Response to HiPointDem (Reply #20)

Fri Dec 28, 2012, 03:25 PM

21. kick

 

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Response to HiPointDem (Original post)

Fri Dec 28, 2012, 11:09 PM

22. Kick. Ignoring it does not make it go away.

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Response to woo me with science (Reply #22)

Fri Dec 28, 2012, 11:23 PM

23. kick

 

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Response to HiPointDem (Reply #23)

Mon Dec 31, 2012, 01:28 AM

24. kick

 

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Response to HiPointDem (Original post)

Mon Dec 31, 2012, 07:04 AM

25. What is "orwellian kabuki"? And why do you need to keep kicking this thread?

Are you under the impression that you have discovered something? Everyone knows the 'fiscal cliff' was set up under a Republican House, Democratic Senate, and President Obama. Tactically, it's turned out in favour of the Democrats - the fight moved until after the election, with the Democrats making gains in both parts of Congress and retaining the presidency, if the voting continues in the new session. You shouldn't read too much into the exact numbers voting for a bill like this - if it becomes clear that it will get a majority in each part of Congress, some will vote against it just to have something to show as 'independence' to voters back home, and some will agree to vote for it to get it passed.

Are you saying that Democrats should not have done any deals at all back in 2011 - that they should have waited to see how bad things got with the enforcement of the debt limit, hoping the Republicans would crumble first? Remember, the debt limit was easy for the madder Republicans to use - they like seeing government spending stop. They might have held out for months. Hell, it's their one bargaining chip this time too - they may still try to hold government spending hostage again in a couple of months' time.

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Response to muriel_volestrangler (Reply #25)

Mon Dec 31, 2012, 07:51 AM

28. +1

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Response to HiPointDem (Original post)

Mon Dec 31, 2012, 07:38 AM

27. "174 Republicans and 95 Democrats voted for it".

*174* House Republicans voted for it, compared to only 95 Democrats.

*That's the interesting figure to me*.

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