HomeLatest ThreadsGreatest ThreadsForums & GroupsMy SubscriptionsMy Posts
DU Home » Latest Threads » Forums & Groups » Main » General Discussion (Forum) » O.K. Does anybody here re...

Sun Dec 23, 2012, 08:33 PM

O.K. Does anybody here really want to have a snerious discussion about guns?

This discussion thread was locked as off-topic by aikoaiko (a host of the General Discussion forum).

Those of us who consider ourselves progressive and also happen to like our guns have been called every name in the book here with immunity. Apparently, you can't say "Bitch", Fag, retarded, queer, and a whole bunch of words I can't even keep up with but you can call a progressive gun owner anything you want, "gun nut", killer, psycotic, anything you want as long as it is directed towards gun owners. Real P.C. Also real helpful in establishing a meaningful dialoge between gun owners and those that prefer not to have guns. In my experience, it is always helpful in a dialoge to insult and degrade the folks who don't see things the way you do.

I am a gun owner. I like my guns. I'm also so far left that my family nickname is Comrade. I've listened here for the last two weeks how many of you are going to ban all guns, come to my house and take them all away, restrict how often my gun fires, put serial numbers on my bullitts, and on and on and on. All you have accomplished by this is to spur gun, ammo, and high capacity magizine sales to an all time high! Good job!

I know I am sticking my neck out here to take this position but the fact is that you can not put the toothpaste back in the tube! People have guns. You are not going to take them. Sales for AR15 type arms and high cap magizines are skyrocketing. Do you really think the solution is to try to take everybody's guns away? That is simply not going to happen. You may wish for it, I may wishfor a Unicorn that shits glitter but neither one of us is going to get what we want, so, do you have a real solution?

Funny, when someone shot a bunch of kids in Sweden, nobody much cared. Someone shoots a bunch of kids here and the solution is to ban guns.

So, seriously, how do we fix this?

I expect my ignore list will get well populated with folks who have no answers other than to pretend guns don't exist


52 replies, 2216 views

Cannot reply in locked threads

Back to top Alert abuse

Always highlight: 10 newest replies | Replies posted after I mark a forum
Replies to this discussion thread
Arrow 52 replies Author Time Post
Reply O.K. Does anybody here really want to have a snerious discussion about guns? (Original post)
OffWithTheirHeads Dec 2012 OP
Logical Dec 2012 #1
easttexaslefty Dec 2012 #2
quinnox Dec 2012 #3
NYC_SKP Dec 2012 #5
cantbeserious Dec 2012 #9
HereSince1628 Dec 2012 #31
Lizzie Poppet Dec 2012 #37
Lizzie Poppet Dec 2012 #26
quinnox Dec 2012 #29
NYC_SKP Dec 2012 #4
OneMoreDemocrat Dec 2012 #6
cantbeserious Dec 2012 #7
LAGC Dec 2012 #12
cantbeserious Dec 2012 #18
OffWithTheirHeads Dec 2012 #13
cantbeserious Dec 2012 #19
geomon666 Dec 2012 #36
AlecBGreen Dec 2012 #8
cantbeserious Dec 2012 #11
AlecBGreen Dec 2012 #42
cantbeserious Dec 2012 #48
AlecBGreen Dec 2012 #50
Skittles Dec 2012 #33
AlecBGreen Dec 2012 #38
Skittles Dec 2012 #43
AlecBGreen Dec 2012 #44
Skittles Dec 2012 #47
AlecBGreen Dec 2012 #51
Logical Dec 2012 #10
OffWithTheirHeads Dec 2012 #14
Logical Dec 2012 #17
DemocratsForProgress Dec 2012 #15
quinnox Dec 2012 #23
DemocratsForProgress Dec 2012 #24
quinnox Dec 2012 #28
DemocratsForProgress Dec 2012 #30
GeorgeGist Dec 2012 #16
enough Dec 2012 #32
Logical Dec 2012 #20
baldguy Dec 2012 #21
Recursion Dec 2012 #27
morningfog Dec 2012 #22
cbrer Dec 2012 #25
HereSince1628 Dec 2012 #45
jody Dec 2012 #34
Little Star Dec 2012 #35
PDJane Dec 2012 #39
unblock Dec 2012 #40
quinnox Dec 2012 #41
TheCowsCameHome Dec 2012 #46
jmg257 Dec 2012 #49
aikoaiko Dec 2012 #52

Response to OffWithTheirHeads (Original post)

Sun Dec 23, 2012, 08:38 PM

1. "Funny, when someone shot a bunch of kids in Sweden, nobody much cared" Do you mean Norway???

Cannot reply in locked threads

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to OffWithTheirHeads (Original post)

Sun Dec 23, 2012, 08:39 PM

2. Wait a minute, let me grab something.

Cannot reply in locked threads

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to OffWithTheirHeads (Original post)

Sun Dec 23, 2012, 08:41 PM

3. your guns are safe, Hoss

This is Amurika, where we got the cowboy culture as a historical influence and baggage. We are gun crazed in this country, and if some innocents have to pay every year in bloodshed, well, that's the price we pay for our gun obsession I guess. So keep on keepin' with the six-shooters and playing with the guns, Hoss

Cannot reply in locked threads

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to quinnox (Reply #3)

Sun Dec 23, 2012, 08:43 PM

5. "Hoss"?

Way to build consensus, quinnox.

Cannot reply in locked threads

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to quinnox (Reply #3)

Sun Dec 23, 2012, 08:48 PM

9. Until The 2nd Amendment Is Repealed And Guns Are Outlawed Once And For All

Cowboys Culture Be Damned - like many things its time has come and gone.

Cannot reply in locked threads

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to cantbeserious (Reply #9)

Sun Dec 23, 2012, 09:20 PM

31. I feel like Lyndon Johnson on the civil rights act...

I fear this absolutist attitude is going to alienate rural people all across the south and midwest.

Society has legitimate interests in reducing gun violence, and democrats should pursue that goal, but it should be done in ways that address the risks and not just fear,

Unless of course the Third Way think tanks actually want large swaths of permanently red state legislatures all across these regions.



.


Cannot reply in locked threads

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to cantbeserious (Reply #9)

Sun Dec 23, 2012, 09:31 PM

37. Ah, so on or about the 34th of Nevervember, then.

Works for me...

Cannot reply in locked threads

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to quinnox (Reply #3)

Sun Dec 23, 2012, 09:04 PM

26. Way to be part of the very problem the OP describes.

Cannot reply in locked threads

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to Lizzie Poppet (Reply #26)

Sun Dec 23, 2012, 09:11 PM

29. maybe if the OP could get their gun killing spree shootings straight

I might take it more seriously. Sweden?

I know its one of those "damn foreign countries", but at least get the facts right in the OP.

Cannot reply in locked threads

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to OffWithTheirHeads (Original post)

Sun Dec 23, 2012, 08:42 PM

4. Don't confuse what you've been reading here with mainstream progressive or democratic values.

DU, in all it's glory, on the matter of rational violence reduction, does NOT represent mainstream thought on matters of how to cure our culture of violence.

Most prefer to address inequity an poverty, which makes sense.

Cannot reply in locked threads

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to OffWithTheirHeads (Original post)

Sun Dec 23, 2012, 08:44 PM

6. I think a lot of us do...

 

But right now it seems like it simply isn't possible, passions are running WAY to deep.

Maybe after some time has passed from the Newtown shooting there will be an actual discussion and give and take of ideas...right now there is too much name-calling, blame and outrage (both real and manufactured).

Cannot reply in locked threads

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to OffWithTheirHeads (Original post)

Sun Dec 23, 2012, 08:45 PM

7. This Progressive Democrat Is In Favor Of Repealing The 2nd Amendment And Outlawing All Guns

eom

Cannot reply in locked threads

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to cantbeserious (Reply #7)

Sun Dec 23, 2012, 08:51 PM

12. Good luck with that.

Things would have to get MUCH worse before 3/4 of the states even considered messing with the Bill of Rights.

Cannot reply in locked threads

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to LAGC (Reply #12)

Sun Dec 23, 2012, 08:55 PM

18. Thank You - I Appreciate The Words Of Encouragement

eom

Cannot reply in locked threads

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to cantbeserious (Reply #7)

Sun Dec 23, 2012, 08:51 PM

13. Good luck with that.

Cannot reply in locked threads

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to OffWithTheirHeads (Reply #13)

Sun Dec 23, 2012, 08:55 PM

19. Thank You - I Appreciate The Words Of Encouragement

eom

Cannot reply in locked threads

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to cantbeserious (Reply #7)

Sun Dec 23, 2012, 09:30 PM

36. You've got my full support.

Whatever it takes, no matter how long it takes.

Cannot reply in locked threads

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to OffWithTheirHeads (Original post)

Sun Dec 23, 2012, 08:46 PM

8. Ive also noticed that

"Apparently ... you can call a progressive gun owner anything you want, "gun nut", killer, psycotic, anything you want as long as it is directed towards gun owners."

So I guess the new policy is "Name is calling is bad, unless I think the people are assholes"

I dont think its wrong to have a national debate on firearms. Go for it. I will say that even the HINT of gun control has made ammo very scare. I went to two different stores and both were basically sold out.

Cannot reply in locked threads

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to AlecBGreen (Reply #8)

Sun Dec 23, 2012, 08:50 PM

11. The Gun Apologists And NRA Crazies Already Have Enough Ammo - How Many Times Do They Plan To Kill

The rest of us.

When is enough bullets enough?

Cannot reply in locked threads

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to cantbeserious (Reply #11)

Sun Dec 23, 2012, 09:39 PM

42. I am neither a nut nor an apologist

I bought my wife a rifle for Christmas so we can hunt together. The two stores I visited were sold out of the ammo I need, a very common caliber. Id like to have a box for her so she can sight it in on Christmas break. So in my situation, maybe 20 rounds would be enough.

Cannot reply in locked threads

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to AlecBGreen (Reply #42)

Sun Dec 23, 2012, 09:55 PM

48. Right - You May Be The One In A Million Responsible Gun Enthusiast - So Where Is All This Ammo Going?

eom

Cannot reply in locked threads

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to cantbeserious (Reply #48)

Sun Dec 23, 2012, 10:02 PM

50. In my area, based off the people I know

9/10 gun owners are like me. They own anywhere from 1 to 10 firearms, both purchased and passed down, and use them to hunt and to target shoot. Some, like me, might own one for home protection. I think the minority (~10%? more? less?) might be what some call nuts. They buy and buy, with little purpose other than they like guns and want to buy them. Some fear an apocalypse, police state, etc but for the most part I think they just REALLY like guns and always want 'one more.' My point is, yes, there are people who go overboard. There are also far more who responsibly own guns for good reasons. I am not "one in a million."

Cannot reply in locked threads

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to AlecBGreen (Reply #8)

Sun Dec 23, 2012, 09:28 PM

33. careful

the occasional massacre is just collateral damage of a sick gun culture; what REALLY gets them upset is when you call them NAMES!

Cannot reply in locked threads

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to Skittles (Reply #33)

Sun Dec 23, 2012, 09:34 PM

38. you dont see me crying about it Skittles

Im simply pointing it out. I think if we (DU) expect to be a relevant and welcoming place for progressives, we ought to be more careful in how we treat those with whom we disagree. Calling me a psycho or a gun nut because I own firearms is both inaccurate and counterproductive.

Cannot reply in locked threads

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to AlecBGreen (Reply #38)

Sun Dec 23, 2012, 09:41 PM

43. I will NOT welcome gun nuts

responsible gun owners, ok, but gun nuts need to stay in the gungeon

Cannot reply in locked threads

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to Skittles (Reply #43)

Sun Dec 23, 2012, 09:43 PM

44. ok, serious question here

how do you define a gun nut? Is it the number of firearms?

Cannot reply in locked threads

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to AlecBGreen (Reply #44)

Sun Dec 23, 2012, 09:46 PM

47. omg

zzzzzzzzzzzzz if you have to ask after all that has happened....*please*; I don't have time for this

Cannot reply in locked threads

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to Skittles (Reply #47)

Sun Dec 23, 2012, 10:06 PM

51. sorry to bore you and take up your time

I would think that if this issue is important to you and someone asks you a question in earnest, you would be inclined to answer it.

Cannot reply in locked threads

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to OffWithTheirHeads (Original post)

Sun Dec 23, 2012, 08:49 PM

10. Looks like a "Hit and run" post to me.

Cannot reply in locked threads

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to Logical (Reply #10)

Sun Dec 23, 2012, 08:54 PM

14. Yeah, I've been here for over 11 years. Your post looks like hit and run.

Cannot reply in locked threads

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to OffWithTheirHeads (Reply #14)


Response to OffWithTheirHeads (Original post)

Sun Dec 23, 2012, 08:54 PM

15. "when someone shot a bunch of kids in Sweden, nobody much cared"

Have a cite for that, or did you just pull it out of your... holster?

Cannot reply in locked threads

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to DemocratsForProgress (Reply #15)

Sun Dec 23, 2012, 08:58 PM

23. I had to do a double-take on that one

I think they meant the mass shooting in Norway, where the guy killed all the kids on that island. And I for one, was horrified when I first heard about it back then and did care about the story, so the OP is smokin' something funny when it comes to this.

Cannot reply in locked threads

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to quinnox (Reply #23)

Sun Dec 23, 2012, 09:03 PM

24. That's probably the one, yes.

It's ironic that the OP doesn't "care" enough to even get the country correct.

"Snerious," indeed.

Cannot reply in locked threads

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to DemocratsForProgress (Reply #24)

Sun Dec 23, 2012, 09:09 PM

28. agreed, its really offensive even, but to be expected

typical American, can only focus on this country, and they don't seem to give a hoot for what may happen in those "damn foreign" countries.

Cannot reply in locked threads

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to quinnox (Reply #28)

Sun Dec 23, 2012, 09:16 PM

30. And the crying shame is

that some of those countries have a lot to teach us about rational, effective gun regulation, among many other things. But as soon as a maniac like Brevik commits an act of senseless slaughter, Stateside gun fetishists turn around and cry: "See? Gun control doesn't work!"

Cannot reply in locked threads

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to OffWithTheirHeads (Original post)

Sun Dec 23, 2012, 08:54 PM

16. Sneriously?

Too many cowboys, not enough Indians.

Cannot reply in locked threads

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to GeorgeGist (Reply #16)

Sun Dec 23, 2012, 09:20 PM

32. .... (nt)

Cannot reply in locked threads

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to OffWithTheirHeads (Original post)

Sun Dec 23, 2012, 08:55 PM

20. Which Sweden shooting are you talking about? n-t

Cannot reply in locked threads

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to OffWithTheirHeads (Original post)

Sun Dec 23, 2012, 08:56 PM

21. How do we fix this? Let's talk about getting rid of the guns.

If the discussion doesn't begin there, then you're not serious.

Cannot reply in locked threads

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to baldguy (Reply #21)

Sun Dec 23, 2012, 09:06 PM

27. OK, let's talk about that. What do you suggest?

Looking at our attempts to get rid of the heroin and coke, it's not as easy as passing a law.

Cannot reply in locked threads

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to OffWithTheirHeads (Original post)

Sun Dec 23, 2012, 08:57 PM

22. Are you snerious?

Cannot reply in locked threads

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to OffWithTheirHeads (Original post)

Sun Dec 23, 2012, 09:04 PM

25. #1 Single payer health care

 

That will allow some progress to be made in identifying and treating the types of psychosis that manifests itself in slayings.

Also might help to run a few research grants towards people doing work on societal influences on violence.

Perhaps convicting and punishing politicians who are guilt of crimes against humanity too.

Just running some ideas through m'head

Cannot reply in locked threads

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to cbrer (Reply #25)

Sun Dec 23, 2012, 09:43 PM

45. If you've got published evidence evaluating psychosis as a factor in the 35 mass murders

since the mid 1920's I'd like to see the link.

Looking at all gun violence (which is going to be the intent of stricter gun regulation) I've found NOTHING from a jury reviewed professional publication that suggests that psychosis is among the most important factor behind gun violence.

Indeed, I've never even found a jury reviewed professional publication that argues societal violence of ANY TYPE has psychosis as its dominant factor.

Cannot reply in locked threads

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to OffWithTheirHeads (Original post)

Sun Dec 23, 2012, 09:28 PM

34. Answer, sadly only regulars in DU's Justice & Public Safety Gun Control & RKBA (Group). nt

 

Cannot reply in locked threads

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to OffWithTheirHeads (Original post)

Sun Dec 23, 2012, 09:29 PM

35. Anyone who wants AR15 type guns and high capacity magazines deserves...

every word of scorn they receive. There is no good reason for any citizen to have those type guns/magazines. Having them legal poses a threat to the rest of us. Sure, maybe you won't kill someone with them but someone else surely will. And until the day you can guarantee that no one will ever commit mass murder with one your argument is mute and they should be banned.

No civilian needs AR15 type guns and high capacity magazines, period.

edit to add: There are ways to get them off the streets.

Cannot reply in locked threads

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to OffWithTheirHeads (Original post)

Sun Dec 23, 2012, 09:34 PM

39. No westernized country except the US has gun ownership

written into the constitution, even though there hasn't been a well-regulated militia for 200 years. Yes, there's always some way to get guns and ammo.

More equitable living wages via minimum wage laws, real progressive taxation and yes, a government which takes better care of its people than corporations would solve some of this.

There is no real way to eliminate mental illness. If you use treatment as a court-ordered part of sentencing, you'll end up with a patient without an incentive to get better. You often can't treat people outside of an in-patient clinical setting. The fact is that medications do not always work, and when they do work, they often have side effects that are vicious. That's a big, dark, secret about anti-psychotic meds. They also leave you feeling like crap, physically. The side effects range anywhere from dry mouth or a taste like you've been sucking on aluminum, through constant constipation or diarrhea, weight gain , diabetes, tardive diskinesia (repetitive actions like 'coke jaw'), akasthisia (inability to sit still), trembling, decrease in brain volume, sexual dysfunction, and shortened life span. These things are not benign, and there are reasons that people don't take the damn things.

The fastest way to decrease the damage that guns do, and the way that will diminish the harm immediately, is to limit gun ownership because yes, guns do kill people.

Cannot reply in locked threads

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to OffWithTheirHeads (Original post)

Sun Dec 23, 2012, 09:35 PM

40. ok i know "snerious" was a typo, but i'm totally stealing it.

no, really.

i'm stealing it.

sneriously.

Cannot reply in locked threads

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to unblock (Reply #40)

Sun Dec 23, 2012, 09:38 PM

41. and a new internet slang word was born

Cannot reply in locked threads

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to unblock (Reply #40)

Sun Dec 23, 2012, 09:45 PM

46. Are your SERIES??!? This is HUGH!!

Another gem for the DU dictionary.

Cannot reply in locked threads

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to OffWithTheirHeads (Original post)

Sun Dec 23, 2012, 09:59 PM

49. Why wouldn't you think that all those who realize that to substantially reduce gun violence

we must substantially reduce the number of guns are serious?

Deadly serious. Serious enough to see that if the people want it to happen, it will happen, despite silly dire warnings by gun owners.

Cannot reply in locked threads

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to OffWithTheirHeads (Original post)

Sun Dec 23, 2012, 10:11 PM

52. Locking.


Much of your OP is about DU's discussion of gun control and RKBA rather than the topics themselves. That makes your OP more about commentary about DU than a political topic.

Your commentary about DU should be posted in meta.

Cannot reply in locked threads

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink