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Sun Dec 23, 2012, 07:35 PM

I'm a bit confused.

I'm not a gun fan, but, something is bothering me.

Do most of the gun owners support the current america or are they planning armed rebellion?
If they are planning rebellion, what are they looking to replace the government with?

If these are the same people who supported the GWB administration, then why were they stockpiling weapons?
If they are revolting against their corporate masters, why are they republican? Aren't they pro corporation?

If not, why are they stockpiling weapons?

It's the circular nature of the problem that is hurting my brain.

11 replies, 984 views

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Arrow 11 replies Author Time Post
Reply I'm a bit confused. (Original post)
Flatpicker Dec 2012 OP
Laurian Dec 2012 #1
baldguy Dec 2012 #3
Flatpicker Dec 2012 #5
former-republican Dec 2012 #2
patrice Dec 2012 #4
ProgressiveProfessor Dec 2012 #6
Flatpicker Dec 2012 #7
ProgressiveProfessor Dec 2012 #8
NashvilleLefty Dec 2012 #9
Flatpicker Dec 2012 #10
Angleae Dec 2012 #11

Response to Flatpicker (Original post)

Sun Dec 23, 2012, 07:59 PM

1. Mostly, they're just not very bright. I've yet to hear

A cogent argument for maintaining a personal arsenal.

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Response to Laurian (Reply #1)

Sun Dec 23, 2012, 08:03 PM

3. This.

The very people who spend millions & work tirelessly to keep the gun crazies afraid are the very people they need to fear.

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Response to baldguy (Reply #3)

Sun Dec 23, 2012, 08:12 PM

5. This is what I'm thinking

If this was a french revolution scenario, I would be happy to see my allies armed against the organizations that are ruining our country.
But these guys seem to be fighting for the corporations that are working to remove their rights.

So no matter how I try, I don't see where the armed militia scenario fits.
Are you fighting for the corporations? or against them?

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Response to Flatpicker (Original post)

Sun Dec 23, 2012, 08:02 PM

2. I hear they like this movie alot

 

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Response to Flatpicker (Original post)

Sun Dec 23, 2012, 08:08 PM

4. I think there's some interest out there in "states rights" motivated by the desire to oppress LGBTQ

Civil Rights and Women's choice to reproductive health services and birth control.

You may recall that there are some people who want to end the Department of Education, so control of school curriculum is a big issue too.

I guess most of them want just enough federal government to go to war anywhere around the world whenever wherever they want.

The stockpiling may be associated with their expectation that we're going to have Great Depression II, so people are going to come after their goods and attack their families in order to acquire the wherewithall to trade for food and medicine.

They aren't necessarily Republican, though they might wear that label, or any other. The Republican party has split into 2 parties: the 1% who own the 53% that Romney thinks he campaigned for and represented by Boehner and Cantor; and those of the 47% who think of themselves as Republicans, but whom Romney and Ryan campaigned against.

Labels can be tricky under the best of circumstance, in regards to what used to be called Republicans lately, labels are particularly suspect. I find it more useful to think in terms of issues, single, and in combinations of issue relationships.

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Response to Flatpicker (Original post)

Sun Dec 23, 2012, 09:57 PM

6. Not at all. There are lots of kind of gun owners, with varied interests

Even the worst preppers are not advocating revolution. Their focus is the total absence of law and order.

The term gun nut is tossed around here quite loosely. The problem is no one can agree on what the qualifications are and what separates a "good gun owner" from a gun nut. This is my take on it. Though it may not be all inclusive, IME, gun owners fall into distinct groups but share some common features.
==============================
Accidental/Casual: Inherited it, used to hunt 20 years ago etc. Firearm is inactive, in a closet somewhere (unsecured) no one knows where the ammo is.

Self Defense Only: Generally a newer owner, most likely a modern semi automatic handgun. One per adult, with the occasionally a .22LR pistol for low cost practice. No long guns. Meticulous about safety and securing weapons. Likely to have a CCW and carry at least part of the time.

Hunter/Outdoorman: Shotgun(s), hunting rifles which may include semi autos depending on the age of the owner. A hand gun or two, mostly older. A .22LR would be expected. Not always secured well. Might have an AR. Maybe a self defense hand gun or shotgun. Unlikely to have a CCW

Shooting Sports: Long guns depend on the sport, shotguns for clays, rifles for other kinds of shooting. An AR format rifle would be expected. Lots of handguns if a competitor there, otherwise 2-3 would be about the norm. .22LR rifles and pistol would also be there. Maybe a historic piece or two. Cowboy shooters also have a different mix, mostly reproductions of antique designs. Tend to be organized and keeps thing secured. May or may not have a CCW

Collector: Lots of weapons, mostly older, depends on the period of interest. Instead of 44Magnum with a laser sight, you might find a Webley or a cowboy SA Colt. Like most shooters .22LR and an AR would not be unusual. Tends to have some in display cases vice safes. Unlikely to have a CCW

Survivalist: Heavy focus on military style weapons with multiple copies within a family. Would also have shotguns, long range rifle, and .22LR weapons. Tend to secure things well and often wants to fly under the radar. Many hide it from friends and even family. Will have a CCW if its available and carries.

Gun Nuts: Different from the above since they focus on guns and not other activities. Rarer than some here think in that their lives revolve around guns. A Hunter type might wear camo in the field. These guys wear camo underwear. These types tend to have diverse and growing collections, without a lot of duplicates. Very big into accessorizing in addition to getting lots of firearms. Tends to secure them but also distributes a few for easy reach. Scary to most other gun owners. Will have a CCW if its available and carries.

Thugs/Criminals: Guns are integral to gang life, they are not called gang bangers for nothing. Guns are a statement of who they are but there goal is respect etc. They have modern pistols, mostly of better quality. Occasional semi auto rifles. All weapons possessed illegally and either stolen or straw purchased. Carries without a CCW. Poorly trained. Most dangerous of all groups and responsible for most gun violence in the country.

I am sure there are more groups that I could enumerate, but that is what comes to mind at the moment.
====================
Some thoughts on the above: Current numbers of households with firearms are mostly based on self identification, which is always questionable. I am think that somewhere close to half of American households having firearms. However the number of ones with active shooters is no more than 30%, quite possibly less. This is as much based on my experience than any scientific polls.

Its clear to me than numbers alone or the possession of one kind of firearm or another is not a primary indicator of gun nuttery or which group a person falls into. Its a fair bet that a trap or skeet shooter has many shotguns, but what else they have is impossible to tell. A collector with every WWI bolt action every made probably has an AR as well. Just about every gun owner has has some kind of .22LR.

One thing is clear, is that outside of the first two groups, anyone who is comfortable with firearms and likes using them is going to have a growing collection over time. Most don't sell anything they own. I fall into that category. I have never sold a weapon once I owned it. Its a hassle and I did not want the responsibility and liability. Easier just to move it to the back of the safe. That is changing for me now.

So in summary, there are many different types of gun owners, and most of them IME are not gun nuts (which clearly do exist). The issue is not number, or kind, but intent and attitude.Those not familiar with the different groups lump them all together. That is dumb, but it is happening with increasing frequency ("all gun owners have blood on their hands"). It polarizes the debate and ultimately reduces the opportunity for effective dialog and reform.

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Response to ProgressiveProfessor (Reply #6)

Sun Dec 23, 2012, 10:29 PM

7. Interesting

I think for myself, I have trouble differentiating between the Outdoorsman, Survivalist, and the Gun Nut.

What was the CT parent in that spectrum?

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Response to Flatpicker (Reply #7)

Mon Dec 24, 2012, 12:17 AM

8. Hard to tell, not enough solid data out there.

Her gun collection was not that of a hardcore survivalist. Though she may have talked about some prepper related issues, it does not look she was into that lifestyle either.

The Outdoorsman is really outdoors/hunting focused, gun are tools. If they are younger, they may also be bow hunters, ATV riders, etc.

The Survivalist is survival focused, and while guns are important, they are not the sole interest. Food storage, medical, non-GMO seed stocks, structure, etc are also on their minds

Gun nuts (and they are out there) are focused on the guns and accessories primarily. Those that throw that label around here on DU probably don't know any, and confuse hunters and others with them since they don't know any better.

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Response to Flatpicker (Original post)

Mon Dec 24, 2012, 12:27 AM

9. I will try to clear some of it up.

Most of the "gun owners" support the America they want, regardless of what the the Majority decides.

It is because of this limited world-view that they believe that they are "right", no matter what.

They do not have any rationale behind their disturbed beliefs, but because the gun in their hand supplies false power they believe that they are right.

Might makes Right. At least, in their petty view.

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Response to NashvilleLefty (Reply #9)

Mon Dec 24, 2012, 04:24 PM

10. Problem

Is as long as we all think like this nothing will get done.

You are painting them with the same broad brush they paint the "gun grabbers" with.

It's that view on both sides that has to stop. Otherwise the guns aren't going anywhere.

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Response to Flatpicker (Original post)

Mon Dec 24, 2012, 11:51 PM

11. The people you describe are probably a minority of gun owners.

I suspect it's a small minority. Most gun owners are normal law-abiding citizens who go about their lives just like any other. They support the current govt more or less just like non-gun owners depending on their personal political views.

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