A shotgun is all you really need for home defense

Unless you mean double barrel shotguns.

Although they also have single barrel

Any case, double barrel should be enough

But the point is, you don't need any of these high grade semi autos

And the magazine only carries approx 6 to 8 shells.

and 20 shell drum magazine for a Saiga 12 gauge. Can get a slide fire stock for it too. Just ask Big Daddy.
on Youtube.

The sound of a shotgun cocking may actually result in no violence. If you caught burglar off guard you could literally hold him/her in place until cops arrive. It's hard to miss with a shotgun at somewhat close range so the burglar may rationalize that its better to get arrested than shot with a (legally registered) shotgun. I've said this before, I don't think all guns should be banned, but they should be left home locked up or used for hunting if you must (ugh). Some people do use guns to provide meals for their family. But no way should high capacity clips or guns that shoot 6 rounds per second be in civilian hands.

This gun, BTW, is illegal because of barrel length.

You can't take a shotgun, and cut off the barrel, and stock, but if you made a new shotgun, you could make it without a buttstock and with a short grip.

Below is a gun available for sale:
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You can buy them new here: http://paladinarmory.com/SBSAOW.htm#BEARCLAW

Scroll down or click on Bear Claw.

The first shot he took with it, the release lever ripped through the skin and flesh between his thumb and index finger from the kickback. Lots of blood and required several stitches. No one would dare shoot the thing afterwords.

made out of a flare gun. I shot that little hand cannon once, experienced the recoil, decided it was not for me, and sold it to the local maniac. First time he shot it, he bled from the web between his thumb & finger, where the hammer had gotten him. But, being a maniac, he loved the gun.

..... and if you say you need a weapon for home protection a pump shotgun
is perfect for the job. BTW the odds of a gun being fired at the owner or
somebody he or she knows are much larger compared to the miniscule chance
it will be used stopping a bad person breaking into a home.



Remington 870 pump ..... good for deer and small game too. In Ohio
I can only have 3 rounds in it when I am hunting and i am fine w/ that.

shotguns are extremely powerful. A pump action can typically hold half a dozen rounds right. Proper training can get it reloaded pretty damn quick.

I would think a can of wasp & hornet spray would suffice. It has a range of about 20 feet which would cover most rooms or hallways and costs about $5.00.

Better than mace

Some of the burglars have methed out their nerves bad enough they can ignore full strength pepper spray, which, btw, was originally made for forest rangers to deal with Grizzly bears and other large animals.

depends upon where the spray lands on the alleged assailant.

While others are better used to other platforms. This subject is so subjective for their to be only one choice. Personally i prefer my m4 just due to my familiarity with it.

Some of the women police officers in our town were not able to qualify with the shotguns because there was too much recoil and they couldn't handle the gun. So the city removed them( the shotguns) and issued 9mm short rifles, I think they are the Berreta Storms.

Shotguns come in many varieties, including pump and semi-auto, which hold more than two shells. They also can fire solid projectiles (slugs) instead of shot. Since you say shotguns are Ok, how would you feel about a homeowner possessing one of these?

Saiga Semi-auto 12 gauge shotgun with 20 round drum mag.

Not that it matters much. You can see video of them recovering the gun from the car.

"Seriously - it sprays shot so you shouldn't need a semi auto."

Unless you live in a genuinely palatial home, any shot you have to make in self defense will almost certainly be from 10 yards or less. In that range, even a short-barrel, open-choke shotgun's pattern will only have opened up to about a foot or so. At about 40 yards, the pattern opens to about a yard in diameter.

Also, must pump-action shotguns (by far the most prevalent type) hold between 4 and eight rounds. They are undeniably effective self-defense weapons (and as far as severity of wound goes, a 12ga shotgun is considerably more likely to be lethal than all but the most powerful of rifles...as in "elephant guns," and such). The intimidation factor of a shotgun is legendary (and very real), so you might be increasing your chances of not having to fire, assuming the situation allows you to give the home invader a chance to surrender.

But that scenario points out one of the weaknesses of a shotgun for home defense, at least for people who might expect to be alone: it takes two hands to use. If you need those hands to keep the invader who just surrendered covered, how are you going to dial for the police? I guess you could make the invader do the dialing!

And probably pretty possible with the sight of a shotgun at close range.

He got home and discovered that his dog had cornered an intruder and wouldn't let him move.

He tossed him a phone and made him call 911 to be rescued.

If a home invader has enough balls to break down a door when the owner is home.
That same person or persons have a gun in their or his possession.

I would not want to send my two dogs to be shot while I lock my self and family in a room.
I would protect them as I would my own family.

a false sense of self confidence.

A good dog in the home is the best defense to deter any type of burglary.
Seconded is a good home alarm system.

Most burglars will not try to enter a home when they hear a dog barking on the other side of the door.
But if it's a smash and grab most don't care about an alarm system. They are long gone before a police officer
will respond.

Most burglaries happen in the day time when the home owner isn't home.

Home invasions are really rare compared to burglaries.

The dog on the other hand is a family member, and I would hate to have it hurt.

For recommending a weatherproof Mossberg pump action.

Go figure.

I don't think guns for home defense have a good cost-benefit ratio except maybe in rural areas or bad neighborhoods, but I would definitely feel better about a shotgun than a pistol. The shot is going to completely disable an intruder. You might also have less of a chance of killing your neighbors or family with a stray shot through the drywall or window than with a pistol or rifle.

...one of the most recognizable and scary sounds a person could hear on the other side of a door.

PB

If shows you are not panicky, but thinking, coolly logical.

here is a picture of shotgun patterns at 9 and 21 feet - at 21 feet the distance between pellets was 4 inches. They were shooting 00 buckshot.



The advantage of a handguns include being easier to use in tight quarters and being able to call one 911 with the other hand.

Assuming the bad guys make it past Spot...



Sometimes I find half-digested handguns in his poop.

Someone asked in an earlier thread if they could have one of his kids. Sadly, no. They live a very long time and rarely reproduce. Otherwise they'd have eaten everything on the planet millions of years ago.

They protrude when getting around corners. It would be easy for a determined burglar to grab it from you from the other side of the corner. And the spray of a 17" shotgun is overstated. Within a room, 00 shot would probably make a pattern like a silver dollar or the diameter of a coffee can at most.

In a residential setting plus with a sling its difficult tontake off you.

Lock your self in a room with your family and pets with phone in hand.

i have locks on my doors and a phone near my bed.

For a lot of people this is the reality and they know that the cops are not going to arrive on time.

they will not be at home when their home gets broken into either. this is a reality. people don't "need" guns and i'm living proof. i have stayed alive for over 57 years and never had a gun. i had an apartment i lived in once upon a time broken into and i came home while they were there and they were gone before i even saw them. they were just getting started on my place, my next-door neighbor was about to be cleaned out but because i interrupted the thieves all he lost was a clock radio.

that was over 30 years ago. nothing since.

i'm wracking my brain right now trying to think if i know anyone who did get broken into while they were home, and coming up empty.

i knew a family years ago - the father killed the son-in-law when he came home in the middle of the night. father thought it was an intruder.

my son had a friend in high school, 16 years old. talked to him one day, seemed just fine, next day my son learns he shot himself to death.

i know many families and parents of homicide victims because my daughter was killed in So California (by being run over with a car) and i became active in a group called Justice for Murdered Children and also went to grief counseling at a place called Loved Ones of Homicide Victims. lot of drive bys, domestic disturbances gone bad and there happened to be a gun close by, etc.

"Property crime is fairly low in the US compared to Canada or Europe. Violent crime is very high though, although it has decreased steadily for the past couple decades.

You should just take common precautions and not live in fear. And God forbid you do get burgled, it will likely happen when you are not home. Criminals don't want to be seen committing crime!"
http://answers.yahoo.com/question/index?qid=20120722005727AAv2jSx

i tried to look up the statistics on the odds of being home when one's home is broken into and could not find the information. but i know for me those odds are nowhere near high enough for me to have a gun. no guns for me, no guns in my house.

i don't know why this thread is not in the gungeon, i prefer not to get sucked into these discussions. it was just the title that got me, you just "need" a shotgun. no you don't! you don't "need" a gun.

I'm even older than you are, 64, and as you might guess from my screen name, a female. I have lived alone much of my adult life. Never owned a dog, but have had cats, although currently companion animal free.

I absolutely do not understand the mind set that is convinced that guns are "needed" because who knows when someone will break into your home. It's never happened to me. Nor have I ever been robbed. I even use to ride public transportation in the DC area, frequently coming home very late at night or in the wee hours of the morning. Never felt unsafe.

It really is the guns.

and thank you for expressing it.

my niece lives alone in a remote area - i am not sorry that she has a gun. i live in a city and expect i always will. i'm a city person. in a rural area i would think you may need a gun for critters as well as possibly bad guys.

...the police are only minutes away!

"Property crime is fairly low in the US compared to Canada or Europe. Violent crime is very high though, although it has decreased steadily for the past couple decades.

You should just take common precautions and not live in fear. And God forbid you do get burgled, it will likely happen when you are not home. Criminals don't want to be seen committing crime!"

the odds are very low that i will be broken into while i am at home. no guns for me. no gun in my house, ever.

Standard 12ga 00B shotshells fire 12-15 pellets (.330" in diameter) about 1500 feet per second.
An Uzi fires 10 rounds per second of 9mm bullet (.355" in diameter) about 1300 feet per second.

Easily firing 1 shot per second with a shotgun yields ~13% more similar sized projectiles travelling about 15% faster.
And a typical hunting-style pump action shotgun holds 5-8 cartridges for a total of 60-120 projectiles.
Some of the more tactical-style pump shotguns hold up to 15 cartridges (180 projectile)
An Uzi can only fire 32 projectiles before reloading.

And we haven't touched on SEMI-AUTO shotguns...
There's a reason you see the guys kicking doors at the front of the SWAT team holding shotguns.
They are simply unrivaled devastating weapons inside of about 30 yards.

Now, why do you think what you propose is any sort of real world "solution"?
Why do you think people won't simply perform massacres with shotguns in the future?

Here's a Pump Action Shotgun with a 15 round capacity (I agree, much better than a military-style rifle):

Or almost any paramilitary semi-auto rifle, for that matter...

For the most part, the only place any of these weapons are showing up for sale right now is on brokerage listings, offered by privat parties...at 2-3 times MSRP. All the screeching for banning these weapons has done (and will do) is create a brief, intense market bubble. Which was about as much of a surprise as the sun rising in the east...

Here's something to think about the line of reasoning that "shotguns" are OK but semi-auto "paramilitary" rifles aren't...

I have semi-auto ARs. I have a semiauto AKs. I even have REAL Full Auto submachine guns. Of all the guns in my collection from benign to scary, you know what I keep readied for home defense if something goes bump in the night? A shotgun. And not because ot's somehow socially more appealing... because shotguns destroy the shit out of pretty much everything.

I'm not sure how the OP can rationalize that shotguns are somehow more socially safer/better... they aren't.
If you want to put and end to whatever situation inside of 30 yards, nothing beats a shotgun.

My personal choice is a 1911, but I consider a shotgun to be a terrific pick for home defense. I don't happen to own one (I'm tiny, and they beat hell out of my shoulder), but they're the only long gun I'd consider for home defense. My G3 and long-range bolt gun stay in the gun safe unless I'm at the range.

This home protected by Louisville Slugger!

just read your last post

I'd do so only as a last resort.

And you dial 911

...or death.

Still pretty bad, but not as much grief as you would experience after even a non-fatal shooting.

Much less damage, but stops them nonetheless

I could play Errol Flynn!

I don't want a gun, and if you don't want one don't get one

Guns aren't the best for home defense - I have chased burglars away twice just by pulling a Han Solo and running and screaming at them....


BUT - if we are going to allow guns, it should be limited to shotguns and some handguns. I am uneasy about the handgun part, because they kill the most. However, that has more to do with their popularity than danger.

"BUT - if we are going to allow guns, it should be limited to shotguns and some handguns."

Is someone less dead if they are killed with a shotgun or a handgun as opposed to being killed with a rifle?

Had the Newton perp been carrying a tactical shotgun or handgun, the result would likely not have been any different, except that the resulting discussion would probably be about banning shotguns or handguns, instead of scary looking rifles.

Then killing sprees will rarely go into double digits


We are going to have to ban some guns

It's necesarry

So it would be better to ban the more dangerous ones



So the most powerful weapon you can have is a double-barrel shotgun

IT's called comprimise

Generally, when parties compromise, both groups concede different ground to each other.
You want to ban some guns. OK, that's our concession you're asking for.
So then what to the gun nuts get? (list of acceptable concessions below)

National 50-state Concaeled Carry Reciprocity.
Repeal of the Hughes Amendment.
Repeal of NFA excise taxes (registration/approval paperwork can remain)
Federal Castle Doctrine
... ?

Damage inflicted in the immediate area could be the least of your worries, if it kills a kid asleep in their room across the street, because someone thought a high powered rifle was good for home defense. Most people automatically do NOT consider what is behind their intended target in an emergency situation.

Seriously.

When loaded with frangible ammo, it works better than most anything.

For those of you that don't know, frangible ammunition is something of a godsend for this application. It will penetrate a person, but will split up into harmless dust/fragments when it hits drywall. In my 100+ year old apartment with its stupidly thick plaster walls, I'm not very worried about harming a neighbor, if god forbid, I ever have to fire it.

As some of the messages in this thread already point out.

a shotgun is what I'm most familiar with. Pump action with a sawed off barrel to the legal limit. Or shorter if you're never taking it away from home. The shorter the barrel the greater the recoil though.

I've never been attacked. I HAVE been stolen from, from the shop and garage; never in the house.

None of that stuff was worth shooting at anybody.

Shotguns are great and all, but they have a lot of recoil, are harder to make follow up shots with, are more difficult to operate under stress than a semi-automatic handgun or "military grade" semi-automatic rifle, and it's a myth that they "spray" at home defense distances.

In addition, rounds fired from semi-automatic rifles such as the .223 caliber (typical AR-15 caliber) are less likely to over penetrate through walls than shotgun shot, which is another advantage.

Finally: just because you own a semi-automatic rifle does not mean you have a "personal armory" any more than you owning a shotgun means you have a "personal armory"; knives and shotguns are used in the military too; you don't know what people need; usually does not mean always; semi-automatic rifles are the most important weapon used by the militia, which even modern law defines as all males aged 17 to 49.

I don't carry in public. Don't want to. It's a revolver. If I can't take out an intruder with six shots, then I probably deserve to die!

The shot sprays from a shotgun at household ranges is a bad lie

My most open bore shotgun won't shoot buy maybe a 4" group at 20ft. You still have to aim shotguns inside your home.


While no one need "military grade" firearms they sure are fun to own and shoot. True military grade firearms are pretty darned costly, the closest and cheapest you'll get is a colt LE6920 and they were still around a grand(now 1500-2000). Sure you can fine cheap-o stags, bushies and dpms's (and many others) but they're no where near "military grade" and the AK's you can buy here in the states are just junk unless you spring for some big dollars.

While no one needs a personal armory it sure is nice to have a collection of fine firearms.


But you're close to right the shotgun makes a fine HD firearm. I've wanted a double barrel shotgun for a few years now since I don't own one. I'd trade my 500 in a minute for a Stoeger coach gun supreme.

Mine looks a lot like this, only with a 3x9X32 scope, a flash suppressor, and it's blue, not stainless steel.





My stainless has the laminated stock, a bull barrel, and a 3x12x40, both have the 30 round 'banana' clips, but the SS is strictly for hunting.

And then there's my schiavona and the wife's rapier. You don't need military type weapons for home defense or anything else but war.

And they do make fully automatic shotguns. They're considered machine guns and you can't buy them.

Wolf