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Sun Dec 23, 2012, 10:00 AM

CSPAN caller says good people should be allowed to carry

He just called in and said that the tragedy that just happened was very sad, but what was also sad was testimony before Congress by a woman who'd been in a Luby's, when a gunman came in and started shooting. She said she wished she had been carrying, so she could have taken the gunman out and saved lives.

Well, that's a good point, except for one thing. That woman COULD have been carrying, if she had wanted to, couldn't she? Unless she was in a state that prohibited it, or if Luby's prohibits it. Here in Texas, where you can get a license to carry, how many people really take their gun with them everywhere? How many places are there, where you are allowed to? She COULD have been carrying, but she didn't bother.

That would so often be the case, if more people were encouraged to start packing. Ordinary people just don't walk around with guns, ready to fire gunmen, who catch people with surprise. Or from a distance with rifles, as just happened with the lady outside a church doing Christmas decorations. She was shot with a rifle from a distance; she probably never knew what hit her. Even if she had had a gun, it wouldn't have helped her one bit.

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Replies to this discussion thread
Arrow 30 replies Author Time Post
Reply CSPAN caller says good people should be allowed to carry (Original post)
Honeycombe8 Dec 2012 OP
bowens43 Dec 2012 #1
etherealtruth Dec 2012 #2
Flashmann Dec 2012 #3
cali Dec 2012 #8
Llewlladdwr Dec 2012 #14
Recursion Dec 2012 #26
tledford Dec 2012 #4
samsingh Dec 2012 #5
Honeycombe8 Dec 2012 #10
samsingh Dec 2012 #12
Honeycombe8 Dec 2012 #13
samsingh Dec 2012 #15
Honeycombe8 Dec 2012 #17
samsingh Dec 2012 #20
slackmaster Dec 2012 #6
oldhippie Dec 2012 #19
Paladin Dec 2012 #24
Generic Brad Dec 2012 #7
JDPriestly Dec 2012 #9
Honeycombe8 Dec 2012 #11
jackbenimble Dec 2012 #16
Honeycombe8 Dec 2012 #18
jackbenimble Dec 2012 #30
jwirr Dec 2012 #21
Honeycombe8 Dec 2012 #23
alarimer Dec 2012 #22
nadinbrzezinski Dec 2012 #25
cantbeserious Dec 2012 #27
madmom Dec 2012 #28
Skidmore Dec 2012 #29

Response to Honeycombe8 (Original post)

Sun Dec 23, 2012, 10:08 AM

1. Good people don't need or want guns....

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Response to bowens43 (Reply #1)

Sun Dec 23, 2012, 10:10 AM

2. +1

I am editing to add:

Though, I do not care for hunting and don't define it (in my mind as a sport) ... there would be no real issues (for me) if guns were owned and used solely for this purpose. I wouldn't like it, but don't believe we would be where we are now if this was the sole basis for gun ownership (acknowledging that the guns owned and used were appropriate for this purpose).

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Response to bowens43 (Reply #1)

Sun Dec 23, 2012, 10:30 AM

3. Good people don't need or want guns

+

Plus.......Just who in the HELL is to decide,in advance of any tragedy,WHO are "good people"..And by what reasoning is that determination made?..

Glenn Limbaughs definition,or a nuns??.......

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Response to bowens43 (Reply #1)

Sun Dec 23, 2012, 11:30 AM

8. I know good people who own guns.

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Response to bowens43 (Reply #1)

Sun Dec 23, 2012, 09:14 PM

14. Good people don't need or want to deprive others of their Constitutional rights. NT

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Response to bowens43 (Reply #1)

Mon Dec 24, 2012, 12:12 PM

26. I do need them out on the farm

Cottonmouths and coyotes and martens and all (OK, the martens only are a risk to the chickens, not me, but still).

I think I'm a good person. Maybe I'm wrong.

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Response to Honeycombe8 (Original post)

Sun Dec 23, 2012, 10:31 AM

4. Yes, and *I* should be the one

who determines whether or not someone is "good."

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Response to Honeycombe8 (Original post)

Sun Dec 23, 2012, 11:19 AM

5. if someone is shooting their gun and you have to get yours out from a purse or holster

who's going to win and who's going to die?

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Response to samsingh (Reply #5)

Sun Dec 23, 2012, 03:56 PM

10. Well, the shooter has a lot of people to keep his eye on.

It's possible for someone to do something without him seeing.

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Response to Honeycombe8 (Reply #10)

Sun Dec 23, 2012, 08:14 PM

12. and so he's killing people until someone takes him out

is this the world we want? no other country seems to accept this as the cost of arming people.

the love of guns (actually the profit for the lobbyists and gun manufacturers) trumps the value of human life.

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Response to samsingh (Reply #12)

Sun Dec 23, 2012, 09:11 PM

13. Oh, I don't disagree w/you on that. I was just pointing out that it might be possible

to do something that a mass shooter wouldn't notice, because he has a lot of people to keep track of (whether it's a person escaping, or pulling a weapon, etc.).

In fact, in the Amish disaster, the shooter told the boys to leave and the girls to stay. The shooter was anxious, nervous. One of the girls didn't speak English and hadn't understood what he said. So she followed her brother out when he left. The shooter didn't notice.

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Response to Honeycombe8 (Reply #13)

Sun Dec 23, 2012, 09:15 PM

15. well then limit the magazine side and take the shooter out at reload time.

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Response to samsingh (Reply #15)

Sun Dec 23, 2012, 09:18 PM

17. That's how the Gifford shooter was taken down.

He stopped to reload or something, and a man jumped him. And then another joined in. They got the shooter's gun away, if I recall.

Limiting the mags is a must. I hope Congress can agree on that.

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Response to Honeycombe8 (Reply #17)

Mon Dec 24, 2012, 10:28 AM

20. agreed

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Response to Honeycombe8 (Original post)

Sun Dec 23, 2012, 11:22 AM

6. Fail. The Luby's massacre was one of the reasons that Texas liberalized its concealed carry laws.

 

That woman COULD have been carrying, if she had wanted to, couldn't she?

No.

The shootings happened in 1991. Texas passed its "shall-issue" law in 1995.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Luby%27s_massacre#Consequences

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Response to slackmaster (Reply #6)

Sun Dec 23, 2012, 09:33 PM

19. "That woman" was Suzanna Gratia Hupp, my former State Representative .....

.... and a good friend of mine. She is the one that got the Texas CHL law passed.

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Response to oldhippie (Reply #19)

Mon Dec 24, 2012, 12:06 PM

24. You're Not Keeping Very Nice Company. (nt)

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Response to Honeycombe8 (Original post)

Sun Dec 23, 2012, 11:24 AM

7. A lot of bad people delude themselves into thinking they are good

None of us can determine who is good and who is bad in every situation. The best of intentions can go horribly awry. Just what does the NRA expect - that we develop a naughty and nice list and base access to guns on that?

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Response to Honeycombe8 (Original post)

Sun Dec 23, 2012, 12:06 PM

9. Right. Shootings are always a surprise. When Gaby Gifford was shot, there was a man present

who had a gun. But to have a gun and to be ready to respond immediately upon recognizing a danger are two very different things.

The police can respond because they expect trouble. Ordinary people are not that quick to realize what is happening when the unexpected happens.

Think about how often people get involved in minor traffic accidents. A car suddenly stops in front of you. You aren't expecting it to stop and are unprepared to respond.

You are driving along and your kids start fighting in the back seat. You are distracted for a moment, and . . . . crash.

The woman in the car next to you is texting and starts wandering all over the freeway. You have no escape.

Carrying a gun rarely, rarely works and could easily result in additional injuries or deaths. That is not the answer. We just aren't that aware of what is going on most of the time.

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Response to JDPriestly (Reply #9)

Sun Dec 23, 2012, 04:00 PM

11. Yeah, that's what I think.

I'm not saying it wouldn't ever help, but for the most part, I don't think it would because of the element of surprise. AND the shooter would probably have superior weapons and multiple weapons. A .22 is no match for a glock and semi-automatic rifle.

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Response to Honeycombe8 (Original post)

Sun Dec 23, 2012, 09:17 PM

16. Define 'Good'. n/t

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Response to jackbenimble (Reply #16)

Sun Dec 23, 2012, 09:20 PM

18. LaPierre used that word, too, I believe. I guess they mean good guys don't mass kill?

Not sure how we determine good from bad ahead of time.

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Response to Honeycombe8 (Reply #18)

Tue Dec 25, 2012, 07:57 PM

30. Or when 'good' crosses the line over to bad.

According to the people who knew adam lanza he was a good kid. So if we're going to let 'good' people carry guns in schools what will we do to keep tabs on when they may become not good? And if they are suspected of no longer being 'good', how do we take their permission to carry guns into schools away?

I'd say the nra doesn't really care if there are armed teachers in schools. I think they are just trying to shift the focus away from dead kids to them so that the rhetoric dies down and everything returns to normal just like it does after every mass shooting.

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Response to Honeycombe8 (Original post)

Mon Dec 24, 2012, 11:30 AM

21. Do they have a solid definition of "good"?

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Response to jwirr (Reply #21)

Mon Dec 24, 2012, 11:35 AM

23. I don't know how you'd know BEFORE the incident who is good and who is bad. nt

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Response to Honeycombe8 (Original post)

Mon Dec 24, 2012, 11:35 AM

22. It is a fantasy, nothing more.

These people think life is a movie, in which, given half a chance, they will play the hero.

In the Gabby Giffords shooting, there was a guy who had a gun. He couldn't act because he didn't clearly see the shooter and someone else had already subdued him. He said later that if he had shot, he would have shot the guy who took the gun from the shooter, rather than the shooter himself because the situation was murky at best.

Also, who determines who is "good"? That football player who shot his girlfriend, then himself was described as "good" by a lot of people. Were they wrong? Probably he was no better or worse than anyone else, until he went very wrong.

Who's to say what any of us is capable of, given the right pressures and problems?

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Response to Honeycombe8 (Original post)

Mon Dec 24, 2012, 12:08 PM

25. That woman is living in a movie script

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Response to Honeycombe8 (Original post)

Mon Dec 24, 2012, 12:17 PM

27. I Say - Repeal The 2nd Amendment Now - Outlaw All Firearms

eom

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Response to Honeycombe8 (Original post)

Mon Dec 24, 2012, 01:25 PM

28. Or if someone saw her with a gun and thought she was the "bad guy"

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Response to Honeycombe8 (Original post)

Mon Dec 24, 2012, 01:30 PM

29. Who gets to decide who is "good?"

Sometimes that must means someone who agrees with you, no matter how unreasonable or insane your beliefs are.

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