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Sun Dec 23, 2012, 09:22 AM

Obama Throws Boehner To The Wolves: "You Missed Your Opportunity"-&-“You get nothing”

Obama to Boehner: “You get nothing. I get that for free”


When Boehner asked Obama if they agree on a deal along the same lines as the one he walked away from during the 2011 talks, according to the paper, Obama retorted: “You missed your opportunity on that.”

Obama’s frustrations grew, and he told Boehner he would rail publicly against the Republicans in the absence of a reasonable compromise. As the Journal reports: Mr. Obama repeatedly lost patience with the speaker as negotiations faltered. In an Oval Office meeting last week, he told Mr. Boehner that if the sides didn’t reach agreement, he would use his inaugural address and his State of the Union speech to tell the country the Republicans were at fault.

..............

At one point, according to notes taken by a participant, Mr. Boehner told the president, “I put $800 billion in tax revenue on the table. What do I get for that?”

“You get nothing,” the president said. “I get that for free.” Also during the talks, as Obama bristled over Boehner’s unwillingness to budge on rates, the paper reports that he snapped: “You’re asking me to accept Mitt Romney’s tax plan. Why would I do that?”

http://www.salon.com/2012/12/23/obama_to_boehner_you_get_nothing_i_get_that_for_free/

160 replies, 15390 views

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Reply Obama Throws Boehner To The Wolves: "You Missed Your Opportunity"-&-“You get nothing” (Original post)
kpete Dec 2012 OP
BlueStreak Dec 2012 #1
Proud Liberal Dem Dec 2012 #2
BlueStreak Dec 2012 #48
liberalmike27 Dec 2012 #63
freshwest Dec 2012 #93
aquart Dec 2012 #101
Thunderbeast Dec 2012 #126
southern_belle Dec 2012 #115
OldDem2012 Dec 2012 #3
grahamhgreen Dec 2012 #141
OldDem2012 Dec 2012 #145
grahamhgreen Dec 2012 #154
riqster Dec 2012 #5
SidDithers Dec 2012 #6
Kahuna Dec 2012 #11
alcibiades_mystery Dec 2012 #14
unblock Dec 2012 #32
jberryhill Dec 2012 #43
jberryhill Dec 2012 #29
SidDithers Dec 2012 #39
jerseyjack Dec 2012 #50
jberryhill Dec 2012 #53
woo me with science Dec 2012 #40
MjolnirTime Dec 2012 #56
woo me with science Dec 2012 #62
quakerboy Dec 2012 #100
woo me with science Dec 2012 #132
robinlynne Dec 2012 #143
MjolnirTime Dec 2012 #158
freshwest Dec 2012 #94
Tarheel_Dem Dec 2012 #102
Liberal_Stalwart71 Dec 2012 #113
Summer Hathaway Dec 2012 #118
davidpdx Dec 2012 #149
sharp_stick Dec 2012 #8
ywcachieve Dec 2012 #9
JDPriestly Dec 2012 #25
forestpath Dec 2012 #47
emulatorloo Dec 2012 #68
forestpath Dec 2012 #85
tjwash Dec 2012 #84
Tarheel_Dem Dec 2012 #104
woo me with science Dec 2012 #66
A Simple Game Dec 2012 #79
WilliamPitt Dec 2012 #31
lark Dec 2012 #64
emulatorloo Dec 2012 #70
lark Jan 2013 #159
lark Jan 2013 #160
WilliamPitt Dec 2012 #81
woo me with science Dec 2012 #133
WilliamPitt Dec 2012 #135
woo me with science Dec 2012 #137
WilliamPitt Dec 2012 #139
Tarheel_Dem Dec 2012 #105
emulatorloo Dec 2012 #75
tomp Dec 2012 #151
Dyedinthewoolliberal Dec 2012 #41
woo me with science Dec 2012 #42
byeya Dec 2012 #55
forestpath Dec 2012 #46
MjolnirTime Dec 2012 #54
treestar Dec 2012 #58
emulatorloo Dec 2012 #65
Hekate Dec 2012 #99
Tarheel_Dem Dec 2012 #106
savannah43 Dec 2012 #119
backscatter712 Dec 2012 #122
WilliamPitt Dec 2012 #136
backscatter712 Dec 2012 #121
Coyotl Dec 2012 #4
srichardson Dec 2012 #13
KharmaTrain Dec 2012 #17
renie408 Dec 2012 #49
Coyotl Dec 2012 #24
davidwparker Dec 2012 #114
JDPriestly Dec 2012 #26
jberryhill Dec 2012 #35
SidDithers Dec 2012 #77
Ineeda Dec 2012 #88
srichardson Dec 2012 #95
oldandbitter Dec 2012 #110
Historic NY Dec 2012 #36
HooptieWagon Dec 2012 #103
Baitball Blogger Dec 2012 #7
Vietnameravet Dec 2012 #10
high density Dec 2012 #16
JDPriestly Dec 2012 #34
DFW Dec 2012 #147
bigbrother05 Dec 2012 #45
angstlessk Dec 2012 #92
Skittles Dec 2012 #148
FailureToCommunicate Dec 2012 #12
Flashmann Dec 2012 #28
coalition_unwilling Dec 2012 #73
woo me with science Dec 2012 #15
high density Dec 2012 #18
woo me with science Dec 2012 #19
high density Dec 2012 #20
JDPriestly Dec 2012 #37
heaven05 Dec 2012 #27
Flashmann Dec 2012 #33
davidpdx Dec 2012 #150
ProSense Dec 2012 #30
woo me with science Dec 2012 #57
ProSense Dec 2012 #60
emulatorloo Dec 2012 #80
Tarheel_Dem Dec 2012 #107
woo me with science Dec 2012 #129
coalition_unwilling Dec 2012 #90
wordpix Dec 2012 #59
marble falls Dec 2012 #21
AllyCat Dec 2012 #22
lonestarnot Dec 2012 #23
rosesaylavee Dec 2012 #38
go west young man Dec 2012 #44
woo me with science Dec 2012 #51
go west young man Dec 2012 #69
woo me with science Dec 2012 #74
Maineman Dec 2012 #76
woo me with science Dec 2012 #128
CountAllVotes Dec 2012 #52
samsingh Dec 2012 #61
Maineman Dec 2012 #67
emulatorloo Dec 2012 #71
emulatorloo Dec 2012 #72
SidDithers Dec 2012 #117
go west young man Dec 2012 #86
DonCoquixote Dec 2012 #97
backscatter712 Dec 2012 #123
Tarheel_Dem Dec 2012 #146
WinkyDink Dec 2012 #78
backscatter712 Dec 2012 #124
WinkyDink Dec 2012 #138
backscatter712 Dec 2012 #140
WinkyDink Dec 2012 #155
backscatter712 Dec 2012 #156
tahoelewis Dec 2012 #82
go west young man Dec 2012 #87
Tarheel_Dem Dec 2012 #109
go west young man Dec 2012 #120
woo me with science Dec 2012 #125
jaysunb Dec 2012 #130
go west young man Dec 2012 #152
Tarheel_Dem Dec 2012 #144
go west young man Dec 2012 #153
Tarheel_Dem Dec 2012 #157
coalition_unwilling Dec 2012 #83
go west young man Dec 2012 #89
Scurrilous Dec 2012 #91
backscatter712 Dec 2012 #96
judesedit Dec 2012 #98
OldDem2012 Dec 2012 #108
Liberalynn Dec 2012 #111
Lady Freedom Returns Dec 2012 #112
humbled_opinion Dec 2012 #116
orpupilofnature57 Dec 2012 #127
Politicub Dec 2012 #131
woo me with science Dec 2012 #134
grahamhgreen Dec 2012 #142

Response to kpete (Original post)

Sun Dec 23, 2012, 09:26 AM

1. And then he proceeded to give Boeher a fresh set of 2012 concessions

I can't wait to see what 2013 brings.

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Response to BlueStreak (Reply #1)

Sun Dec 23, 2012, 09:28 AM

2. He didn't "give" him anything

Nobody walked away with anything.

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Response to Proud Liberal Dem (Reply #2)

Sun Dec 23, 2012, 11:17 AM

48. He put on the table

1) spending cuts greater than Bowles-Simson, but no defense cuts (whereas Simpson-Bowles addressed defense)

2) He quickly capitulated on his very clear, bold claims about taxation above the $250K level. He gave up both on the rate (with 37% being commonly discussed) and the threshold (unilaterally offering $400K)

3) He offered a major cut in Social Security payouts disguised as a technical adjustment called Chained CPI.

He did 1) entering the negotiations. He did 2) and 3) AFTER this supposed dialog occurred.

Let's at least get the time line right. Without that, it becomes fanciful fiction.

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Response to BlueStreak (Reply #48)

Sun Dec 23, 2012, 11:54 AM

63. I say

Keep campaigning like it's a presidential election. We've got huge majorities on just about every issue on which they are resisting, and go for the House in 2014.

Get democrats to redistrict in states where they have control, to counter the massive republican state redistricting.

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Response to liberalmike27 (Reply #63)

Sun Dec 23, 2012, 03:23 PM

93. +1,000

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Response to liberalmike27 (Reply #63)

Sun Dec 23, 2012, 04:54 PM

101. We can't redistrict without a census.

SO THANK YOU TO ALL THE GENIUSES WHO STAYED HOME FOR THAT ELECTION.

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Response to aquart (Reply #101)

Sun Dec 23, 2012, 08:20 PM

126. Oh yes we can!

In most states, redistricting is legal at any time the legislature chooses. Tom DeLay led the effort to re-district Texas in 2004 when the state legislature and the state house were in partisan Republican control. Six GOP seats were locked up so that Democrats are wildly outnumbered. Your point, however, is correct in that state legislative districts as well as congressional districts have been drawn in many states to lock in safe Republican seats, and concentrate Democratic votes in a small number of urban districts. We must not be lazy about local and legislative races. How lines are drawn is the dark science of politics. It is seen as too wonky to attract attention, but it is the only reason that Republicans control the House of Representatives.

The next big GOP push (prior to 2016 I imagine) will be for states with Republican control to change their Electoral College voting from "winner take all" to assignment of electoral votes by congressional district with the statewide winner collecting the two votes for their Senators. Had that math been applied to the 2012 results, Romney would be the nominee.

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Response to Proud Liberal Dem (Reply #2)

Sun Dec 23, 2012, 06:59 PM

115. That's BS!

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Response to BlueStreak (Reply #1)

Sun Dec 23, 2012, 09:33 AM

3. Please explain what "concessions" the President "gave" to the Speaker of the House....

....unless you consider claims of what the President supposedly said, without ANY direct quotes, to be "concessions".

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Response to OldDem2012 (Reply #3)

Sun Dec 23, 2012, 11:19 PM

141. Social Security. Why is it on the table?

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Response to grahamhgreen (Reply #141)

Mon Dec 24, 2012, 01:35 AM

145. Is it? Or do you just want to believe that it is? nt.

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Response to BlueStreak (Reply #1)

Sun Dec 23, 2012, 09:38 AM

5. He "offered" things before

Boehner walked away and did his idiot Plan B move.

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Response to BlueStreak (Reply #1)

Sun Dec 23, 2012, 09:45 AM

6. Speculative outrage is the best outrage...nt

Sid

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Response to SidDithers (Reply #6)

Sun Dec 23, 2012, 10:12 AM

11. }^D

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Response to SidDithers (Reply #6)

Sun Dec 23, 2012, 10:18 AM

14. A more perfect description of that one's bullshit I have yet to see

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Response to alcibiades_mystery (Reply #14)

Sun Dec 23, 2012, 10:46 AM

32. i can tweak that:

"speculative poutrage"

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Response to alcibiades_mystery (Reply #14)

Sun Dec 23, 2012, 11:05 AM

43. Sure...

Every time Obama unleashes a turd on the American public, it's them like you who run around shouting, "But look, there's corn in it!"

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Response to SidDithers (Reply #6)

Sun Dec 23, 2012, 10:44 AM

29. I'm outraged at your lack of outrage

If Obama bit the heads off live puppies, and I've heard nothing but silence from him on that, you would think it was fine.

And because you would think it was fine, it can only be because you are a poppy head.

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Response to jberryhill (Reply #29)

Sun Dec 23, 2012, 11:01 AM

39. I swear, I only use a bit of laudanum to help me sleep...



Sid

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Response to jberryhill (Reply #29)

Sun Dec 23, 2012, 11:24 AM

50. It's poopy head, Moran !

 

=

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Response to jerseyjack (Reply #50)

Sun Dec 23, 2012, 11:31 AM

53. It's the opium... From the poppies

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Response to SidDithers (Reply #6)

Sun Dec 23, 2012, 11:01 AM

40. Not speculative at all.

We are guaranteed austerity against the wishes of he American people, and that was the plan all along.


http://www.democraticunderground.com/?com=view_post&forum=1002&pid=2059724

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Response to woo me with science (Reply #40)

Sun Dec 23, 2012, 11:35 AM

56. Why is it that all the Obama-haters feel the need to defend each other?

 

Perhaps you are worried that you are wrong so you cling to others like you rather than admitting the truth??

Like Cheerios in a bowl.

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Response to MjolnirTime (Reply #56)

Sun Dec 23, 2012, 11:48 AM

62. Right on cue: Try to make it about "hating Obama," rather than the policies:

The Third Way will *always* try to make it about the man, rather than the policies
http://www.democraticunderground.com/?com=view_post&forum=1240&pid=193458


Obama is temporary. Our problem is that policies don't change from administration to administration. Our problem is that we have a systemic problem of entrenched corporate money and power in Washington, driving policy in both parties. And it just keeps getting worse.

When *Democrats* can look at this filthy deal, the guaranteed outcome of which is more austerity for the masses....when Democrats can look at the obscene offers coming even from our side, which tilt so heavily to the rich as to be laughable...

When Democrats can look at all this....look at the numbers and what will actually HAPPEN as a result of this deal.....and claim victory....

then we have a problem.


We have truly reached the stage of

War is Peace.
Freedom is slavery.
Ignorance is Strength.

________________________________

Look at the numbers:


http://www.democraticunderground.com/?com=view_post&forum=1002&pid=2055232

$160 billion a year in tax cuts for the top 20%
$42 billion a year in tax cuts for the bottom 40%

clearly a plan that favors the rich











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Response to woo me with science (Reply #62)

Sun Dec 23, 2012, 04:50 PM

100. Wait

No military spending cuts in any of those proposals?

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Response to quakerboy (Reply #100)

Sun Dec 23, 2012, 09:36 PM

132. Not only that:


US Senate approves $211 million for ****** in new $633 billion war bill
http://www.democraticunderground.com/10022060449

From the Democratic-controlled Senate...

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Response to woo me with science (Reply #62)

Sun Dec 23, 2012, 11:22 PM

143. well said.

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Response to woo me with science (Reply #62)

Tue Dec 25, 2012, 01:21 PM

158. It's always the same troop of clowns.

 

And you know it.

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Response to SidDithers (Reply #6)

Sun Dec 23, 2012, 03:25 PM

94. Ain't it though? Don't have to provide any backup or links. Cheap thrills.

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Response to SidDithers (Reply #6)

Sun Dec 23, 2012, 04:58 PM

102. Out of the park again, Sid!





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Response to SidDithers (Reply #6)

Sun Dec 23, 2012, 06:18 PM

113. I'm in love with you!! LOL!!!

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Response to SidDithers (Reply #6)

Sun Dec 23, 2012, 07:41 PM

118. Isn't it, though?

It requires no facts, no stats, no quotes, no sources - only a handy list of anti-Obama talking points that can be regurgitated again and again, repeatedly posted under the guise of being an outspoken concerned citizen.

It also includes the easy out: When Obama doesn't do what the speculatively outraged have predicted he will do, they simply claim credit for having changed his mind by posting their screeds on a political message board.



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Response to SidDithers (Reply #6)

Mon Dec 24, 2012, 05:14 AM

149. I love it

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Response to BlueStreak (Reply #1)

Sun Dec 23, 2012, 10:05 AM

8. Nice try

I love watching the outrage band play it's too bad you only know one song.

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Response to BlueStreak (Reply #1)

Sun Dec 23, 2012, 10:05 AM

9. When I first started visiting this site I thought it was a Democratic site, only.

It seems like every time there is a positive report on President Obama, someone comes on to cast a negative note on it.

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Response to ywcachieve (Reply #9)

Sun Dec 23, 2012, 10:40 AM

25. Obama was simply saying to Boehner that the $800B has already been agreed to.

As I understand it, that is the amount by which revenues are increased if we just go off the fiscal cliff.

And the fiscal cliff has already been agreed to.

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Response to ywcachieve (Reply #9)

Sun Dec 23, 2012, 11:15 AM

47. So did I. Then I found out it was A-OK with some people for Obama to cut SS.

 

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Response to forestpath (Reply #47)


Response to emulatorloo (Reply #68)

Sun Dec 23, 2012, 12:28 PM

85. Your over the top defensive childish insult speaks for itself.

 

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Response to forestpath (Reply #47)

Sun Dec 23, 2012, 12:26 PM

84. Link to one post with a member over 1000 posts here that wants SS cut

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Response to forestpath (Reply #47)

Sun Dec 23, 2012, 05:09 PM

104. Can you back up what you just proffered? I would love to see a link. If you.....

can't provide one, then you are part of the problem here at DU. Propagandizing isn't advocacy, and it's no substitute for debate. I'll wait over here for a link.---------->>>>>>>>>

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Response to ywcachieve (Reply #9)

Sun Dec 23, 2012, 12:19 PM

79. Please read the About section, it's at the bottom of every page.

This is also a liberal web site.

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Response to BlueStreak (Reply #1)

Sun Dec 23, 2012, 10:45 AM

31. It's amazing how invested some are in the idea of Obama letting us down.

It's almost like you need it to happen.

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Response to WilliamPitt (Reply #31)

Sun Dec 23, 2012, 11:55 AM

64. It's amazing to me the peope who are just into cult of personalities.

No matter what Obama does, it's OK because he's the OBAMA! Cutting SSI, Medicare, fine, as long as Obama says it's OK. Who cares that it hurts people unnecessarily and gives a huge boon to the richest, who cares that he ran on the exact opposite? Not these cheer leaders. I happen to care more about policy and results than personality and will rightly condemn Obama when he acts just like a Repug. I will also support him when he's right and hope to see much more of that.

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Response to lark (Reply #64)

Sun Dec 23, 2012, 12:02 PM

70. FUCKING BULLSHIT. SHOW ME THE LAW OBAMA SIGNED THAT CUT SS AND MEDICARE

Sick of you ideologues and your treatment of speculation as fact.

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Response to emulatorloo (Reply #70)

Tue Jan 8, 2013, 12:30 PM

159. Don't hold your breath

He's put this on the table multiple times, most recently on Meet the Press, chosen a catfood commission to do this exact thing, so go ahead bury your head in the sand. When Obama says he's going to do this, it's not speculation on my part to repeat his "threat". Go ahead, think nothing but good of Obama, and be utterly shocked when he does sign the deal to cut SSI and Medicare. Of course, you will probably deny it's a real cut - it's "saving" the programs, you will huff in high disdain.


Hope you have a great day in the land of denial.

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Response to emulatorloo (Reply #70)

Mon Jan 28, 2013, 07:03 PM

160. Speculation?

Obama volunteered the CPI reduction on SS! It didn't become law yet because Repugs are too stupid to stop at yes. I'm praying it doesn't become law, but it won't be because Obama defends it.

Ideologues, really? I thought I was supporting policies that help workers, didn't know wanting to keep SSI & Medicare intact makes one an ideologue instead?

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Response to lark (Reply #64)

Sun Dec 23, 2012, 12:24 PM

81. Show me the cuts.

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Response to WilliamPitt (Reply #81)

Sun Dec 23, 2012, 09:40 PM

133. Lots of cuts have already been guaranteed,

no matter which option comes to pass. There is a trigger, remember?

There will *always* be cuts that didn't happen. There always has to be a worse offer that we were "saved" from. That's how the game is played.

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Response to woo me with science (Reply #133)

Sun Dec 23, 2012, 09:46 PM

135. So that's a total of none?

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Response to WilliamPitt (Reply #135)

Sun Dec 23, 2012, 09:49 PM

137. What didn't you understand there? nt

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Response to woo me with science (Reply #137)

Sun Dec 23, 2012, 10:07 PM

139. I understood everything.

None.

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Response to lark (Reply #64)

Sun Dec 23, 2012, 05:12 PM

105. Nothing like speculation to get you guys going. They hyperbole is amusing.

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Response to WilliamPitt (Reply #31)

Sun Dec 23, 2012, 12:05 PM

75. Some of them are invested because they are PAID to post this divisive shit.

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Response to WilliamPitt (Reply #31)

Mon Dec 24, 2012, 08:28 AM

151. that's a pernicious twisting of the minority opinion....

....and frankly, casting such aspersions ought to be beneath you. that's no way to argue.

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Response to BlueStreak (Reply #1)

Sun Dec 23, 2012, 11:04 AM

41. Care to elaborate?

I'm not sure I understand your remark.

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Response to BlueStreak (Reply #1)

Sun Dec 23, 2012, 11:05 AM

42. Absolutely. And don't forget that this entire process was rigged from the outset

to give us austerity.

That was the purpose of the faux Kabuki Theater debt ceiling Shock Doctrine "crisis" in the first place: to set up a faux crisis and closed door meetings to create a chain of events in which massive budget slashing, or a trigger with slightly less massive budget slashing, were the only possible outcomes.

The ONLY possible outcomes.

They'll save some portion of Social Security or Medicare and brag about it, as though withholding a contrived, threatened assault means we got a good deal...but look at the NUMBERS. Look at the OFFERS. The goal all along was to force austerity on America, and they have already guaranteed that.



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Response to woo me with science (Reply #42)

Sun Dec 23, 2012, 11:35 AM

55. +2

 

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Response to BlueStreak (Reply #1)

Sun Dec 23, 2012, 11:13 AM

46. +1

 

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Response to BlueStreak (Reply #1)

Sun Dec 23, 2012, 11:34 AM

54. Your ilk just cannot stand it when Obama wins, can you?

 

You have to find some way to twist it into a loss.

Pitiful.

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Response to BlueStreak (Reply #1)

Sun Dec 23, 2012, 11:41 AM

58. Unbelievable

Obama could shoot Boner in the town square at high noon and we'd still be hearing this bullshit. Clearly there is nothing that's going to move you from this position.

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Response to BlueStreak (Reply #1)

Sun Dec 23, 2012, 11:58 AM

65. Fuck that bullshit. I'll never understand why Skinner allows your crowd to endlessly lie

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Response to emulatorloo (Reply #65)

Sun Dec 23, 2012, 04:36 PM

99. Complete agreement from me on that observation, emulatorloo



I don't get it.

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Response to emulatorloo (Reply #65)

Sun Dec 23, 2012, 05:15 PM

106. Sadly, I think truth has become a casualty of the desire for increased traffic.

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Response to emulatorloo (Reply #65)

Sun Dec 23, 2012, 07:56 PM

119. Wow! Where did all these anti-free speech trolls come from?

Keep writing. You'll betray yourselves eventually.

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Response to savannah43 (Reply #119)

Sun Dec 23, 2012, 08:11 PM

122. DU ain't a First Amendment free-fire zone.

It's a private web site, which has had rules like "No conservatives" and "No disruptors" in place since day one.

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Response to savannah43 (Reply #119)

Sun Dec 23, 2012, 09:47 PM

136. Durr Hurr

Derp Derp.

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Response to BlueStreak (Reply #1)

Sun Dec 23, 2012, 08:10 PM

121. Your despair is noted. n/t

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Response to kpete (Original post)

Sun Dec 23, 2012, 09:36 AM

4. The Rs are beginning to realize they agreed to raise a lot of taxes



They did not account for the fact that we ARE going over the cliff! Now, taxes go up, revenue goes up, and they cannot blame the Dems.

What is so ironic about all this is the Party of Obstruction has gotten obstructed. The Dems only do nothing, and the Bush tax cuts go away!

It was a set-up and they did not see it coming!

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Response to Coyotl (Reply #4)

Sun Dec 23, 2012, 10:15 AM

13. If we do go over the fiscal cliff...

will it affect my 2012 tax return. As a lower middle class family, I am a teacher and hubby is a supervisor at Coca-Cola, an increase in taxes will have us paying in. And it will hurt. We already live paycheck to paycheck, one paycheck away from homelessness, this worries me. My check is already being reduced bc my dad was recently diagnosed w cancer and my four year old has been very ill this last month. Bc teachers already make a shit salary, losing $240 from a piddly paycheck has already caused us undo financial heartache. My stress level is at a 12 and i know I will miss even more work once dad starts chemo. Its sad we live in a country where these types of medical issues can bankrupt us. If we end up w a higher tax bill, I feel like we may as well start packing to move. I know this post is a rambling complaint, but loving, caring, and teaching students should be a profession that we teachers should not have the added stress of choosing between paying bills or feeding your family.

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Response to srichardson (Reply #13)

Sun Dec 23, 2012, 10:25 AM

17. Call And Write Your Congresscritter...

Welcome to DU...

If we go over the "cliff" almost all of our taxes will return back to the Clinton era levels. There's a very strong chance that even if we go past Jan 1 with no deal, one will be worked out that will be retroactive to Jan 1 that would mean no rise in taxes for at least 98% of us. The key is the House...they're the ones who will either make or break a deal, still...and if Boner can find 25 or so rushpublicans who will agree to raising taxes on the rich. So far Boner has avoided finding the votes in hopes of keeping his fractured coalition together. He failed...and he may lose his leadership role if he pushes any further this year. Thus many "pundits" are now expecting us to "go over the cliff" (more like a speed bump) and after Boner's given a new term as Speaker then he'll make a real deal. But there's no sure thing in this toxic atmosphere.

It's a shame that teachers are taken for granted and treated so poorly. My daughter and son-in-law are teachers and I see how hard they work and are dedicated to their professions and how little they get back in not only compensation but respect. I'll leave that for another post another time.

You'll find a lot of interesting information and viewpoints on the this and other issues here.

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Response to KharmaTrain (Reply #17)

Sun Dec 23, 2012, 11:24 AM

49. I bet they will be hit due to the AMT patch-that-won't-happen.

I am guessing at teacher and a supervisor at Coca Cola make more than $75,000 added together. On top of their taxes going up, they are going to be hit with a jump due to the AMT.

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Response to srichardson (Reply #13)

Sun Dec 23, 2012, 10:38 AM

24. If we do go over the fiscal "cliff" = revenue problem solved. How else can that be accomplished?

Then, the next Congress proposed to restore the Bush tax cuts to those making under $250k.
Let the Rs even try to vote against that, and their party is over!

Meanwhile, capital gains taxes are raised back where they belong, and there simply is no other way to accomplish restoring that theft by the rich. Also, those over 250k are payiong their share again. Everyone wins except the 2% because we have the revenue to deal with problems.

Take the Cliff, and enjoy the ride. All will be far better and there will be money to hire back the quarter million lost educators.

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Response to Coyotl (Reply #24)

Sun Dec 23, 2012, 06:31 PM

114. +1

Exactly.

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Response to srichardson (Reply #13)

Sun Dec 23, 2012, 10:43 AM

26. The idea is to allow the Bush tax cuts on everyone to disappear and then

pass a bill reinstating the tax cuts for the middle class. So if you are middle class, you should be OK. What is middle class? Depends on where Congress draws the line. $250,000 per year is, thus far, a figure that has been mentioned.

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Response to srichardson (Reply #13)

Sun Dec 23, 2012, 10:50 AM

35. The point is...

The tax cuts for the rich are untenable, and the R's will not agree to anything while they don't quite realize that there is a default option - going over the cliff.

After we go over the cliff, we will immediately have legislation to provide tax relief to those under 250K.

In order for that not to pass, the Republicans are going to have to stand up and vote against a tax cut for 98% of Americans, and including 97% of small businesses.

If they do that, there will not be any Republicans in the next Congress.

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Response to jberryhill (Reply #35)

Sun Dec 23, 2012, 12:09 PM

77. Well said...nt

Sid

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Response to srichardson (Reply #13)

Sun Dec 23, 2012, 12:41 PM

88. Uh, no it won't affect 2012 tax returns. It wouldn't be retroactive.

So don't make things up and don't stress about made-up stuff.

I, frankly, can't understand how your dad's cancer has reduced your check. (???)

But best wishes for a better year.

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Response to Ineeda (Reply #88)

Sun Dec 23, 2012, 03:31 PM

95. My check was reduced

due to my school not working with those who have medical emergencies in their immediate family. Because i went over my sick days (which I don't see how they figured the number) I lost pay bc i was spending time in the hospital w him. I wanted to be with him and my mother (both elderly) bc they were terrified. He had major surgery to remove most of the colon. Now when chemo starts i wont have the option to provide support during sickness from chemo. It will be hard on them but i cannot afford to lose money from my check.
The reason for the question about it affecting this year is I have seen posts referring to IRS people saying returns may be delayed by months if we go off the cliff bc the tax laws wld be different. I think it was speaking of the payroll tax break we have been receiving. So, sorry if you thought i was making it up or whining about dads illness. That wasn't my intention. One point i was trying to make is that in a country as advanced as ours, we should be able to spend time w a dying family member wo fear of losing pay instead of waiting on them to die to get time for the funeral.

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Response to srichardson (Reply #95)

Sun Dec 23, 2012, 05:40 PM

110. AMT

While the tax rates themselves don't go into effect until 2013, you could be impacted by the Alternative Minimum Tax (AMT). The temporary patch to adjust for inflation was only applicable through 2011. I wish I knew more about the AMT, such as what the cut-offs would be without the adjustment, but you can probably find that info through a search. Good luck with both your father and being a teacher in Oklahoma (I'm a native Okie whose mother was a teacher).

Regards

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Response to Coyotl (Reply #4)

Sun Dec 23, 2012, 10:50 AM

36. Exactly and they are trying to welch on the deal they made previously....

Boehner, Cantor & Mcconnell are joining hands and jumping.

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Response to Coyotl (Reply #4)

Sun Dec 23, 2012, 05:05 PM

103. Not so much a set-up...

as it was that Rs took it for granted they'd take control of the Senate, and had a real good chance at WH. I know a couple activists who were really shocked they didn't win. I warned them the war on women was going to blow up in their faces, but they poo-pooed that.

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Response to kpete (Original post)

Sun Dec 23, 2012, 09:46 AM

7. This is the kind of info that should have been posted a week ago.

Thank you, salon!

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Response to kpete (Original post)

Sun Dec 23, 2012, 10:09 AM

10. Help

I heard this part about Boehner putting $800 billion on the table and the President saying Boehner gets nothing and he gets that for free.. and my wife and I thought "that makes the President seem unreasonable" I figure there has got to me more to the story than that...But what am I missing?

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Response to Vietnameravet (Reply #10)

Sun Dec 23, 2012, 10:25 AM

16. How is it unreasonable after Obama gave the GOP 95% of what they wanted and they still said no?

Obama has nothing to lose at this point. The Republicans have proven themselves to be unable to consider any compromise at all yet again.

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Response to Vietnameravet (Reply #10)

Sun Dec 23, 2012, 10:48 AM

34. The $800 billion is saved and obtained in increased revenue if we go over the fiscal cliff.

Obama already signed the bill that requires cuts and increased taxes for that amount of money.

The negotiations going on now need to be more favorable.

And cutting Social Security is extremely unpopular, that is the chained CPI for Social Security is extremely unpopular. No one has anything to gain by cutting Social Security -- not politically.

The Republicans wanted to avoid the fiscal cliff because it requires cutting military spending. I personally favor cutting military spending. That is where the "fat" in our budget is to be found. We can have a quality defense without the waste. That should be our goal.

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Response to JDPriestly (Reply #34)

Mon Dec 24, 2012, 03:07 AM

147. There is another area where just as much can be saved as by cutting defense waste

The trouble is, there are huge entrenched interests that will fight reform tooth and nail, and Obama knows it.

Our health care cost system is a perverted mess. Obama said he would like to save a lot in getting health care costs down. He can. We can. The trouble is, the cost of health care is wildly inflated in the USA. I had two operations in 2011 that involved specialists and three day hospital stays. One was in Germany. The other was back home in Dallas. The one in Germany cost about $11,000 and my American insurance balked at covering it. The one in Dallas cost $36,000, later "discounted" to $26,500 for the insurance company (standard practice, but only for insurance companies, never for individuals--and no one could ever tell me why). Multiply the difference, even between $26,500 and $11,000, to the cost of operations, chemotherapies, etc., performed in the USA in a year, and the scope becomes rather large.

I don't know how much priority will be attached to this as opposed to defense, but I told this exact story to President Obama last summer, and he took note of it. I know that because I got a follow up email from the White House about it. Whether or not it's in their power to do anything about it is another story entirely. The health insurance industry has billions at their disposal to fight any legislation that might reduce their capacity to keep the current system in place, and they have every incentive to use that money. The people of the United States have every incentive to make the system change.

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Response to Vietnameravet (Reply #10)

Sun Dec 23, 2012, 11:12 AM

45. Boehner was offering to let the Prez keep $800B of the $1T+

he would get without doing anything. If all the taxes revert, there is way more than $800B coming in.

The fiscal cliff was created during the bargaining for lifting the debt ceiling by the Repubs and PBO got some language in it to make sure the RW had pain as well, ie Pentagon cuts. When the Simpson-Bowles deal was rejected in Congress (thanks P. Ryan), the House never took any serious action. Now the RW posturing has brought us to another impasse and the Prez can get more revenue than he's asked for with no cuts to programs without doing anything and the majority of the public blames it on the GOP.

Once the deadline is passed, there is a new political/policy reality that will allow the Prez to take an even higher ground with advocating for middle and lower class tax cuts and protecting our at risk populations.

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Response to Vietnameravet (Reply #10)

Sun Dec 23, 2012, 03:14 PM

92. Which part of YOUR veterans benefits are you willing to give up to make

Obama 'look reasonable'?

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Response to Vietnameravet (Reply #10)

Mon Dec 24, 2012, 04:26 AM

148. you are missing the part about Boner being asshole for YEARS

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Response to kpete (Original post)

Sun Dec 23, 2012, 10:14 AM

12. Obama STILL should "use his inaugural address and his State of the Union speech to tell...

the country the Republicans were at fault."

He definitely should follow thru on that threat.

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Response to FailureToCommunicate (Reply #12)

Sun Dec 23, 2012, 10:44 AM

28. Obama STILL should "use his inaugural address and his State of the Union speech to tell...

I enthusiastically agree........Whether or not an agreement is reached,the President should bring the shit hammer down on them....That poisonous mind set needs quashed at every opportunity....

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Response to FailureToCommunicate (Reply #12)

Sun Dec 23, 2012, 12:04 PM

73. Emphatic agreement from me on this. Time for Obama to start campaigning for

 

the 2014 mid-terms by running against the 'Do-Nothing Congress.'

We've got them on the mat now and the 10-count has begun. Time to finish the job in 2014 with Dem majorities in both House and Senate (and Rs destined for the dustbin of history).

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Response to kpete (Original post)

Sun Dec 23, 2012, 10:21 AM

15. ...

http://www.democraticunderground.com/?com=view_post&forum=1002&pid=2055232

$160 billion a year in tax cuts for the top 20%
$42 billion a year in tax cuts for the bottom 40%

clearly a plan that favors the rich






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Response to woo me with science (Reply #15)

Sun Dec 23, 2012, 10:26 AM

18. Excellent graph!

It shows exactly how ridiculous the Republicans are.

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Response to high density (Reply #18)

Sun Dec 23, 2012, 10:28 AM

19. It shows how obscenely tilted to the rich Obama's offers have been

after Democrats supposedly won this election.

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Response to woo me with science (Reply #19)

Sun Dec 23, 2012, 10:29 AM

20. Yep, that too

Good point.

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Response to woo me with science (Reply #19)

Sun Dec 23, 2012, 10:51 AM

37. And super-obscenely anti-seniors, anti-Social Security.

I'm wondering why I spent so many hours working for Obama. He certainly is not working to protect my Social Security, i.e., my livelihood. This is some thanks. What an ungrateful person. What an ungrateful nation.

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Response to woo me with science (Reply #15)

Sun Dec 23, 2012, 10:43 AM

27. where?

Anyone can make a graph with statistics. At Boston U, I had a class, 'how to lie with statistics'. Where from any government form signed off on by our President does this graph come? Go continue sharpening you knife brutus.

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Response to heaven05 (Reply #27)

Sun Dec 23, 2012, 10:46 AM

33. had a class, 'how to lie with statistics'.

Reminds me of a Benjamin Disraeli quote...Something like: There are lies,damned lies and statistics...

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Response to Flashmann (Reply #33)

Mon Dec 24, 2012, 05:23 AM

150. Also the name of an episode of The West Wing I believe

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Response to woo me with science (Reply #15)

Sun Dec 23, 2012, 10:45 AM

30. Nice chart.

Obama's first offer was strong (http://www.democraticunderground.com/10021905787). He should have stuck with that.

His third offer sucks, and the problem is he is negotiating with Republicans.

Any, and I mean any, deal out of this Congress is going to suck in some ways. You don't have to be happy, but don't pretend there is an alternative.

I mean, you can close your eyes and pretend that Republicans don't exist and that they're not the majority in the House. You can also play a game in your head where you envision them doing anything to make you happy.

There are only three things coming out of this Congress: a half-bad (or half-good, depending on your perspective) deal, a bad deal or nothing.

You can push for nothing if it's bad, but for the rest you have to decide what's good enough to accept. If that's unacceptable, go back to pushing for nothing.

That's the reality.

An offer is not a deal, which means both sides agree.

The first offer was a really good one that was never going be accepted by Boehner. Anything Boehner accepts that's not out desperation is going to suck, and that's why going over the cliff is seen as the better path.

We can go on all day about the logic behind the President's third offer, but the end result is: no deal. Boehner rejected it.

The President knows something you obviously can't wrap your head around: Boehner can't accept any deal that raises taxes on the rich. He doesn't have the votes.

Report: White House Considers Smaller Fiscal Cliff Deal
http://www.democraticunderground.com/10022049743

After a dramatic week, Social Security is again off the table
http://www.democraticunderground.com/10022052075

"clearly a plan that favors the rich "

P is for propaganda.

http://www.democraticunderground.com/?com=view_post&forum=1002&pid=2055558



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Response to woo me with science (Reply #57)

Sun Dec 23, 2012, 11:45 AM

60. Oooh,

a "blue link" to your own propaganda.

I'll trade you this "blue link": http://www.democraticunderground.com/10022059947



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Response to woo me with science (Reply #57)


Response to emulatorloo (Reply #80)

Sun Dec 23, 2012, 05:30 PM

107. The propaganda here only rivals that of Glenn Beck and his "FEMA Camps". However,

Glenn Beck is just much better at it, as witnessed by the extremely poor showing of the alternatives to Obama in this past election. The far left couldn't manage 1% of the popular vote against him combined. The Roseanne Party, The Jill Stein Party, The Rocky Anderson Party lost in spectacular fashion, and they're pissed, more now than ever. Expect the propaganda to increase, just in time for these groups to cut him off at the knees for the 2014 midterms.

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Response to Tarheel_Dem (Reply #107)

Sun Dec 23, 2012, 08:24 PM

129. Not propaganda. Unconscionably, it's news:


US Senate approves $211 million for ****** in new $633 billion war bill
http://www.democraticunderground.com/10022060449

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Response to ProSense (Reply #30)

Sun Dec 23, 2012, 12:46 PM

90. Excellent exegesis and analysis. Much appreciated. - n/t

 

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Response to woo me with science (Reply #15)

Sun Dec 23, 2012, 11:43 AM

59. how does this compare to the fiscal cliff cuts & revenue?

can we add another bar?

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Response to kpete (Original post)

Sun Dec 23, 2012, 10:34 AM

21. Welcome to big league, Congressman.

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Response to kpete (Original post)

Sun Dec 23, 2012, 10:37 AM

22. "You stole fizzy lifting juice. YOU GET NOTHING!"

Said Mr. Willy Wonka.

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Response to kpete (Original post)

Sun Dec 23, 2012, 10:38 AM

23. He's like dealing with a fucking gun nutter.

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Response to kpete (Original post)

Sun Dec 23, 2012, 10:58 AM

38. I am sure the exchange went something like this...

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Response to kpete (Original post)

Sun Dec 23, 2012, 11:09 AM

44. From Alternet.

http://www.alternet.org/tea-party-and-right/obama-will-ride-rescue-republicans I tend to think the writer has a point. The country has swung so far right that many here on DU see any ground gained back to the center as a victory. I'm a New Deal dem myself. The question now would be why even bother going after entitlements when the opposition doesn't have a leg to stand on? Why give them what they want still? Why not go after the military budget and ensure entitlements? After all we did just win the election. I would like to see Obama as FDR rather than as Abe Lincoln.

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Response to kpete (Original post)

Sun Dec 23, 2012, 11:26 AM

51. This is how deep and thick and ludicrous the corporate spin is,

and this is how thoroughly we have been steeped in Third Way propaganda...

that any Democrat can look at these numbers and claim that we are winning or being honestly represented in any way.

Don't forget that this entire process was rigged from the outset to give us austerity.

That is how it BEGAN last spring, and that was the corporatists' goal from the outset: to ensure that austerity and budget slashing are guaranteed as an outcome of this process. That was the purpose of the faux Kabuki Theater debt ceiling Shock Doctrine "crisis" in the first place: to set up a faux crisis and closed door meetings to create a chain of events in which massive budget slashing, or a trigger with slightly less massive budget slashing, were the only possible outcomes.

The ONLY possible outcomes.


It is the stale, familiar, old "lesser of two evils" game by corporatists who own both parties now. Corporate Democrats will ostentatiously withhold a threatened assault on some portion of Social Security or Medicare so that they can point to it and claim to be working hard for us, but the goal all along was to force austerity on America, and they have already guaranteed that.

Look again at the offers from the DEMOCRATIC side, even after we won this election. They are Absurd. They are so heavily tilted to the rich that this could be a Monty Python skit.

We live in a corporate illusion of representative government. Look at the NUMBERS, and tell us that these offers make any sense at all from a party that supposedly won this election by a landslide and that pretends to be representing the people. Nothing from Democrats about cutting the MIC. Nothing about cutting corporate welfare. Nothing about citting the police state. And in a country where Americans overwhelmingly oppose austerity and favor protecting Social Security and Medicare.

It is a travesty. Look at the Offers.


http://www.democraticunderground.com/?com=view_post&forum=1002&pid=2055232

$160 billion a year in tax cuts for the top 20%
$42 billion a year in tax cuts for the bottom 40%

clearly a plan that favors the rich






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Response to woo me with science (Reply #51)

Sun Dec 23, 2012, 12:01 PM

69. You are so on the money.

The thing that is missing from all that negotiating is of course the military budget. The elephant in the room that no one dare mention. Most folks at DU these days have forgotten what we dems really fight for. Who could believe that once again we have control and we are going to negotiate with ourselves and concede to the other side what they want. Your right it is like a Monty Python skit. The Republicans would be the Judeans Peoples Front from "Life Of Brian". We are the slave who is asked "hanging or crucification".

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Response to go west young man (Reply #69)

Sun Dec 23, 2012, 12:04 PM

74. Thank you. I may repost this as an OP, adding your comment about the MIC.

It is sick that we have come to this.

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Response to woo me with science (Reply #51)

Sun Dec 23, 2012, 12:06 PM

76. Thanks for the time-line graph. I wonder when cuts to the bloated defense industry come in.

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Response to Maineman (Reply #76)

Sun Dec 23, 2012, 08:22 PM

128. Cuts?

There are no words adequate for this:

US Senate approves $211 million for ****** in new $633 billion war bill
http://www.democraticunderground.com/10022060449

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Response to kpete (Original post)

Sun Dec 23, 2012, 11:28 AM

52. Orange man cry cry cry









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Response to kpete (Original post)

Sun Dec 23, 2012, 11:48 AM

61. kick

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Response to kpete (Original post)

Sun Dec 23, 2012, 11:58 AM

67. Heads up: It would be a good Karl Rove strategy to stir up animosity on a site like this one.

As far as I know, there is no background check to see who gets to post on this site.

And, it would be wise to listen carefully and give commenters and posters a little room to be imperfect with their messages.

Remember, conservatives and Republicans are at war with liberals, progressives, and common sense types. They will use any trick they can think of.

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Response to Maineman (Reply #67)


Response to Maineman (Reply #67)

Sun Dec 23, 2012, 12:04 PM

72. Agreed. And there are plenty of Fake Progressives here stirring up shit. Have no clue why Skinner

allows it. Trolls must donate a lot, Koch Bros have deep pockets. The same loud handful, liars every one

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Response to emulatorloo (Reply #72)

Sun Dec 23, 2012, 07:04 PM

117. Keep telling it..



Sid

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Response to Maineman (Reply #67)

Sun Dec 23, 2012, 12:31 PM

86. Maineman this site has always been about debate.

Plenty of righties post here and plenty of hard progressives. It's all welcome in my mind. This debate isn't edgy and it isn't going to weaken our leadership position. If anything it's just a mild DU discussion. You are correct in believing these threads are trolled by Freepers and govt agencies. That goes without a doubt.

In my mind DU has become quite centrist since 2008. I used to love old DU when it was hardcore left and lots of articulate progressives posted here. There are still a few great ones. (Time For Change, Peace Patriot, H2O man come to mind.) But the site has definitely taken a centrist turn since the early days. Maybe that explains why Obama won. We moved to the center. Yet I would personally like to see the country become much more aggressively progressive. And I would like to see DU swing more left. Just my two cents. Peace.

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Response to go west young man (Reply #86)

Sun Dec 23, 2012, 03:57 PM

97. There are still those who value debate

But I think what happened is that everyone, both left and right, began to value discussion less. It became less of a search for truth, and more of a war. This of course, allows for people to be manipulated, and rewards those who are clever, as opposed to smart.

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Response to Maineman (Reply #67)

Sun Dec 23, 2012, 08:14 PM

123. Rove's minions are trying to woo us with science...

if you get my drift.

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Response to backscatter712 (Reply #123)

Mon Dec 24, 2012, 01:36 AM

146. !!!!





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Response to kpete (Original post)

Sun Dec 23, 2012, 12:12 PM

78. Barack "Michael Corleone" Obama! "Here's my offer: Nothing."

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Response to WinkyDink (Reply #78)

Sun Dec 23, 2012, 08:16 PM

124. How long until Boehner wakes up with a dead prostitute in his bed?

I'm betting it won't be long...

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Response to backscatter712 (Reply #124)

Sun Dec 23, 2012, 10:05 PM

138. Or a live boy. ;-)

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Response to WinkyDink (Reply #138)

Sun Dec 23, 2012, 10:16 PM

140. Certainly a possibility...

but a dead girl would be more in keeping with the tradition of the Corleones...

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Response to backscatter712 (Reply #140)

Mon Dec 24, 2012, 01:02 PM

155. I know, but mine is part of an old expression. :-)

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Response to WinkyDink (Reply #155)

Mon Dec 24, 2012, 01:15 PM

156. Very true!

I was just thinking of what happened to Senator Geary in Godfather II.

Boy, I'll bet he was happy that Tom Hagen was there to help him cover up the mess afterwards. After that, he was very friendly with the Corleones (because he didn't want to find out what would happen if he wasn't...)

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Response to kpete (Original post)


Response to tahoelewis (Reply #82)

Sun Dec 23, 2012, 12:39 PM

87. Agreed.

Welcome to DU.

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Response to go west young man (Reply #87)

Sun Dec 23, 2012, 05:40 PM

109. It's interesting that you wholeheartedly agree with that newly PPR'd troll. Hmmmm....

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Response to Tarheel_Dem (Reply #109)

Sun Dec 23, 2012, 08:08 PM

120. Read post 86 of mine in this thread.

You sum up the point I made in that post. You throw out an accusation attacking my character because I agreed with someone you believe is a troll. Maybe the person you believe is a troll is actually just a very hardcore lefty who is mad about Obama not being progressive enough. DU used to be about solid well thought out debate not simplistic name calling. You may want to do some research on myself. I'm an easy DU'er to find if you Google Go West Young Man Democratic Underground. Here's a thread of mine for your consideration. Maybe I can get an apology afterward? http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=389x8768651 It may help you to form an opinion instead of making accusations that are groundless.

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Response to go west young man (Reply #120)

Sun Dec 23, 2012, 08:18 PM

125. Well said. nt

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Response to go west young man (Reply #120)

Sun Dec 23, 2012, 09:31 PM

130. I still have that post bookmarked

and refer to it often. And btw, don't hold your breath waiting for that apology.

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Response to jaysunb (Reply #130)

Mon Dec 24, 2012, 11:19 AM

152. Cheers!

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Response to go west young man (Reply #120)

Mon Dec 24, 2012, 01:31 AM

144. The "troll" was PPR'd. Nuff said.

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Response to Tarheel_Dem (Reply #144)

Mon Dec 24, 2012, 11:43 AM

153. The poster may have been a touch over the top

with their anger towards Obama but did they really need to be PPR'd? They were obviously passionate about being truly progressive. They weren't espousing a right wing cause.I personally don't find it disruptful and I also think PPRing has quickly become quite ridiculous. We may have lost a valuable member because "you" didn't like what they wrote. I hope we can have thicker skin than that. In other words just because someone is PPR'd by you doesn't add credence to your argument.

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Response to go west young man (Reply #153)

Mon Dec 24, 2012, 02:20 PM

157. "Over the top"? Ya think?

The poster even threw in a little racism just to top things off. It was a good MIRT decision. "Wall Street monkey"?

I think it's best to stop digging now. And for the record, the asshat wasn't PPR'd "by me". I have absolutely nothing to do with MIRT, nor was I the alerter. Apparently, I wasn't the only one who was offended, but you were certainly the only one to give a great big high five to a racist troll. Happy Holidays.

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Response to kpete (Original post)

Sun Dec 23, 2012, 12:25 PM

83. Emphatic K&R! Thanks for posting! - n/t

 

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Response to kpete (Original post)

Sun Dec 23, 2012, 12:45 PM

89. Here's where we're at now on the matter.

http://www.reuters.com/article/2012/12/22/us-usa-fiscal-stopgap-idUSBRE8BL0ER20121222

Stop-gap fix most likely outcome of "fiscal cliff" talks

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Response to kpete (Original post)

Sun Dec 23, 2012, 02:56 PM

91. K & R

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Response to kpete (Original post)

Sun Dec 23, 2012, 03:51 PM

96. So, how long until Boehner wakes up in bed with a dead hooker?

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Response to kpete (Original post)

Sun Dec 23, 2012, 04:22 PM

98. Ijust pray this is true.&I hope to God Obama is aware of all of the rage about SSCPI.Just say no!

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Response to kpete (Original post)

Sun Dec 23, 2012, 05:32 PM

108. Actually, Boehner threw himself to the wolves...all the President had to do was watch. nt.

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Response to kpete (Original post)

Sun Dec 23, 2012, 05:51 PM

111. I hope he does the same thing this time and says since you walked away a second time

chained CPI is off the table.

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Response to kpete (Original post)

Sun Dec 23, 2012, 06:13 PM

112. Go Obama!

I hope he does chew them out on this in the State of the Union and the Inaugural Address.
We are being held hostage by a group of Teabag Reps in the house that refuse to see what we have to do. I still think those teabag backed trolls want us to because they think they can find a way to come out as heroes. You can't go over the cliff, but we can't go with their plans. With everything that has happened in the last year, we can not afford to. It WILL hurt a lot of people that are already just hanging on by a thread of a thread.

Those guys that are doing this in the House, they only have to worry about their districts that are Teabag Controlled. They do what they are told, they will get re-elected. The rest of us get to get beat up and ruined.

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Response to kpete (Original post)

Sun Dec 23, 2012, 07:02 PM

116. I am still a little confused...

I certainly hope that Democrats vote for middleclass targeted tax cuts retroactive until 01JAN13. If they don't I will be quite pissed but besides that, it just seems to me like in the end we are all going to get screwed.

Here is an example, when Obama first championed the healthcare reform, I said definately needed, we need to help those that are getting screwed, it got passed and yes it does help many that were being screwed over but in the end it turned out that what we got was a government that has now forced all of us to purchase health insurance from the greediest and most evil of all corporations "The Insurance Industry" I don't see how that is a win.... There are no medical cost controls in the bill, there are no funds for increasing the number of doctors, there are taxes but none that will effect me unless somehow they get passed along to consumers... So in the end I am still not sold on the healthcare reform but I will resever complete judgement becasue I know that some have benefited for sure....

In this fiscal dillema, I feel the same way, cliff is supposed to hurt the rich but it is going to screw us all, I don't see the win in that, to be cynical it is a win for fiscal conservatives because they want the increased taxes to lower the debt...

I don't know maybe we are all being played for suckers.

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Response to kpete (Original post)

Sun Dec 23, 2012, 08:21 PM

127. Finally FU-K continuity, expose the Cracked Actors !!!!!

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Response to kpete (Original post)

Sun Dec 23, 2012, 09:32 PM

131. To the GOP: Welcome to the second term, bitches

Bully pulpit much?

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Response to kpete (Original post)

Sun Dec 23, 2012, 09:42 PM

134. Meanwhile, Democrats in the Senate vote billions for the military and Israel.

US Senate approves $211 million for ****** in new $633 billion war bill http://www.democraticunderground.com/10022060449

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Response to kpete (Original post)

Sun Dec 23, 2012, 11:22 PM

142. Seriously, then why is Social Security on the table?

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