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Sun Dec 23, 2012, 05:45 AM

 

If Norman Rockwell heard LaPierre's presser...

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Reply If Norman Rockwell heard LaPierre's presser... (Original post)
Whovian Dec 2012 OP
cantbeserious Dec 2012 #1
graham4anything Dec 2012 #2
Whovian Dec 2012 #3
sarge43 Dec 2012 #5
graham4anything Dec 2012 #8
Shadowflash Dec 2012 #29
Dread Pirate Roberts Dec 2012 #37
jehop61 Dec 2012 #6
graham4anything Dec 2012 #9
Hekate Dec 2012 #42
proReality Dec 2012 #18
Atman Dec 2012 #20
graham4anything Dec 2012 #21
proReality Dec 2012 #22
NWHarkness Dec 2012 #27
graham4anything Dec 2012 #28
Botany Dec 2012 #33
graham4anything Dec 2012 #4
aandegoons Dec 2012 #7
Whovian Dec 2012 #10
graham4anything Dec 2012 #13
graham4anything Dec 2012 #15
graham4anything Dec 2012 #19
Hekate Dec 2012 #43
graham4anything Dec 2012 #11
Whovian Dec 2012 #14
graham4anything Dec 2012 #16
graham4anything Dec 2012 #17
Botany Dec 2012 #36
Brickbat Dec 2012 #38
Whovian Dec 2012 #39
graham4anything Dec 2012 #40
Botany Dec 2012 #41
Berlum Dec 2012 #12
4_TN_TITANS Dec 2012 #23
AAO Dec 2012 #24
Kolesar Dec 2012 #25
Demo_Chris Dec 2012 #26
BeyondGeography Dec 2012 #30
Harriety Dec 2012 #31
Comrade_McKenzie Dec 2012 #32
geckosfeet Dec 2012 #34
HereSince1628 Dec 2012 #35
Electric Monk Dec 2012 #44

Response to Whovian (Original post)

Sun Dec 23, 2012, 05:48 AM

1. The NRA, Gun Apologist And Right Winger Wet Dream All Rolled Into One Image - Too Sad

eom

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Response to Whovian (Original post)

Sun Dec 23, 2012, 05:51 AM

2. I like the idea of National Guardsmen in every school. I was not a Norman Rockwell picture fan

 

Last edited Sun Dec 23, 2012, 06:30 AM - Edit history (1)

Rockwell created an image of the White White picket fence of America, and I believe , except for one later picture, it was always a white lillypicket fence society he was promoting an image of an America that did not exist.

NO the late 1940s and all of the 1950s were NOT an idealic time in America. Not for a good portion of the population.

In fact, not to probably to any fan of Barack Obama.

Those fabled times were just well, a fable.

I wouldn't mind nationally the National Guard. I would not want teachers of Zimmerman's in schools across America.

NOTE- I edited the title to reflect I am not a Norman Rockwell painting/picture fan in that the paintings give a one sided view of America.
I have no idea if Mr. Rockwell himself was or wasn't and I edited the first paragraph to reflect that it is his life work I question, with a token few examples otherwise, as someone in later responses said, which is very easy to find on google, I already knew that and at least 2 other examples out of 1000s of his lifetime output. So 99.9% of his work was NOT what that painting showed.

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Response to graham4anything (Reply #2)

Sun Dec 23, 2012, 05:57 AM

3. It appears you have had limited experience with Rockwell's works.

 



As to National Guard in our schools why not set up sniper towers every 100 yards or so nearby any place the public may gather?

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Response to Whovian (Reply #3)

Sun Dec 23, 2012, 06:10 AM

5. An image that has stood the test of time.



The woman next to President Obama is the subject of the painting.

Better yet, why not turn schools into free fire zones.

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Response to sarge43 (Reply #5)

Sun Dec 23, 2012, 06:21 AM

8. Yes, it is the ONE of almost no others. Is it any surprise that is the ONE our President uses here?

 

The NRA made the suggestion of Zimmerman's in every school
THAT WOULD LEAD TO SHOOTINGS as the awipe killed an unarmed man after being told by police to back down and get to his (zimmy's car).
He asssassianted a guy just for the sake of a thrill kill.

Having the national guard would stop an assasssin either sane or insane from doing so.

And would help alleviate the employment problem too. More jobs would be created and we could give free college to all who pass the tests (and there would be great background checks and knowledge of who is having the guns in this case).

It's a win-win-win

I stand 100% for that, and applaud uber Liberal Barbara Boxer for thinking of it.
I always liked her. Bravo to Barbara.

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Response to graham4anything (Reply #8)

Sun Dec 23, 2012, 07:56 AM

29. Yeah.

Then they would just move on to senior centers. Then when we turn those into armed interment camps they will move on to restaurants then when we hire the national guard to protect the local McDonalds they will move on to the local park, ect, ect. Until the whole country is an concentration camp.

Lack of armed guards is NOT the issue.

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Response to graham4anything (Reply #8)

Sun Dec 23, 2012, 09:32 AM

37. A Military Presence...In Every School....Really?

Talk about your slippery slope. Right! That's the kind of America I want my kids to grow up in. One where there are armed soldiers in every school-because its the only way you'll ever be safe. When people start talking like this-especially self-professed liberals-be afraid. Be Very Afraid!

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Response to graham4anything (Reply #2)

Sun Dec 23, 2012, 06:16 AM

6. Sorry to disagree

but you can't judge the past by the standards of today. The people of today are a lot more sensitive to race and gender issues. Back in the 50s and 60s, Norman Rockwell was a strong progressive.

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Response to jehop61 (Reply #6)

Sun Dec 23, 2012, 06:26 AM

9. But his work said otherwise. I don't much care if he is or isn't personally, it is irrelvant

 

I should have said his paintings were racists and I will go back and edit the first post to reflect that I should have said it.
What he was personally matters little in this case, as his work survives without a context.

(it is different say, from an actor and his role-
everyone knows Archie Bunker was a fictional character. And no one would hold it against the person playing him, who was a super liberal, free from bias, as to being the fictional character, but one cannot say in any shape or form, that Archie himself was not a bigot, there are no other parsings of that.)

I will go and edit the original comment I made above to reflect I mean his paintings and don't care if he himself was or wasn't, it's his paintings anyone remembers without googling a life history(and I do assume one found the one painting by googling, and there are at least 2 others I recall too.But they are irrelevant.

And I do applaud President Obama for bringing that picture to the public eye so that past
thoughts about Rockwell maybe can change. Another great thing Barack Obama has done.
Because people will see that photo/painting and perhaps not even know who created it
but they will remember that one without googling the others.
So it is an interesting thing what perception is.

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Response to graham4anything (Reply #9)

Sun Dec 23, 2012, 05:27 PM

42. You gain no credibility by sticking to this line. Here's Rockwell...

Norman Rockwell painted MAGAZINE COVERS. He painted ADVERTISEMENTS. He was not a polemicist for you or for anyone else. He painted an idealized world because that is how he earned his living, and probably because that is how he saw it.

Jesus. He was born in 1894 and died in 1978.

Norman Rockwell's paintings endure because on the whole they portray an idealized American way of life -- rural to small-town, family-centered, kindly, nostalgic. Not, for the love of God, racist. One of the reasons the painting of that little girl was SO powerful is because it was such a departure in his body of work.

http://www.pbs.org/wnet/americanmasters/episodes/norman-rockwell/about-norman-rockwell/689/

Picture a nation of patriotic citizens unencumbered by want or fear, free to speak their minds and worship as they chose. In a simple room, generations gather for a bountiful Thanksgiving feast. In a dimly lit bedroom, a mother and father tuck their child safely into bed. At a town meeting, a man stands tall and proud among his neighbors. In a crowd, every head is bent in fervent prayer. This is Norman Rockwell’s America as depicted in his famous “Four Freedoms” series. Although his vast body of work has often been dismissed or stereotyped, Rockwell remains one of 20th-century America’s most enduring and popular artists. Now, more than one hundred years after his birth, he is achieving a new level of recognition and respect around the world.

Norman Rockwell thought of himself first and foremost a commercial illustrator. Hesitant to consider it art, he harbored deep insecurities about his work. What is unmistakable, however, is that Rockwell tapped into the nostalgia of a people for a time that was kinder and simpler. His ability to create visual stories that expressed the wants of a nation helped to clarify and, in a sense, create that nation’s vision. His prolific career spanned the days of horse-drawn carriages to the momentous leap that landed mankind on the moon. While history was in the making all around him, Rockwell chose to fill his canvases with the small details and nuances of ordinary people in everyday life. Taken together, his many paintings capture something much more elusive and transcendent — the essence of the American spirit. “I paint life as I would like it to be,” Rockwell once said. Mythical, idealistic, innocent, his paintings evoke a longing for a time and place that existed only in the rarefied realm of his rich imagination and in the hopes and aspirations of the nation. According to filmmaker Steven Spielberg, “Rockwell painted the American dream — better than anyone.”


There's more at the link.

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Response to graham4anything (Reply #2)

Sun Dec 23, 2012, 06:53 AM

18. Rockwell found his models in a small Vermont town

within the confines of where he lived and painted. There were extremely few blacks in the area at that time and that's why you see so few black people in his work, it's not because he was racist. He did several paintings of the family members, including the painting you allude to (The Problem We All Live With), as his models. Some (or all) of the members of that one family are in his paintings Golden Rule, Freedom of Worship (The Four Freedoms series), and Moving In. There may be more, but I can't recall them at this point.

In the 40s-60s there were few black families living in the north, outside of the big cities. The only time I saw blacks was when my parents took me to New York City or Boston; there were no blacks in my small town till I was 16, in 1960.

I wouldn't say that he "idealized" anything, he just painted what he knew from far more innocent eras.

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Response to graham4anything (Reply #2)

Sun Dec 23, 2012, 07:03 AM

20. Ever been to The Berkshires?

I live in rural New England, and it still looks very much like the white picket fence lined streets of Rockwell paintings. My "downtown" here in CT consists of a town green with a white "Yoehman's hall" which serves as the town hall, an old colonial style home converted into a library, a barn for the public works, and a classic old white church. In the center of the green is a gazebo in which concerts are held in the summertime. It is surrounded by flowers and a memorial to the towns fallen veterans. Norman Rockwell painted what he saw.

Btw, not many people know that Rockwell meticulously staged his paintings first as photographs, and recreated the scenes on canvas.

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Response to Atman (Reply #20)

Sun Dec 23, 2012, 07:09 AM

21. yet his work was in a national publication and seen worldwide.

 

It is perception

One in which our great President is now trying to overcome, by focusing himself on the one painting that is not the one normally presented by Rockwell and the publication that printed all his covershots.

Isn't it odd that President Obama made sure to focus on that one?
Doesn't that say something? It always did to me

(btw-I have made my same argument about Rockwell many times over the decades, this is not out of the blue.)


AND I like and recommended this thread and the picture that is a takeoff on Rockwell.
But Rockwell himself never would have published that

That is the irony

We are on the same side here you know about guns.
Please know that. I am 100% anti-NRA, anti-Gun.

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Response to graham4anything (Reply #21)

Sun Dec 23, 2012, 07:15 AM

22. Yes, it says that it's one painting that spoke to the president personally.

And that's about all it says.

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Response to graham4anything (Reply #2)

Sun Dec 23, 2012, 07:42 AM

27. What a load of crap

Rockwell was an artist, not a journalist. He drew his inspiration from the world around him, in a small New England town. He was not attempting to catalogue the totality of American life.

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Response to NWHarkness (Reply #27)

Sun Dec 23, 2012, 07:48 AM

28. The New Yorker, who paid Rockwell and whom he did this for, was national

 

It is like Donnebury or Charlie Brown

the words mean something, the images mean something and yes, it is a point of view the person reading it gets out of it

but it was not local it was national, and he was paid for it as such

btw, it is one thing to say a write like say Salinger was to blame for John Lennon's death, but it can also be argued that ones words have meaning don't they?

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Response to graham4anything (Reply #2)

Sun Dec 23, 2012, 08:41 AM

33. Have you ever seen "The Homecoming?"



This hardly shows white picket fences and only upper middle class white people.

BTW Mr. Rockwell's work started much earlier than the late 1940s & 50s.

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Response to Whovian (Original post)

Sun Dec 23, 2012, 06:07 AM

4. Yes, you can find ONE or two rockwell paintings with blacks, but that is a token effort by him

 

In almost all Rockwell pictures, the entire crowd is white.

I would say 99% of the time

I would say the Little Rascals/Our Gang showed tolerance to any and all, and equal treatment to all.

Rockwell was not, except for a few token efforts.tolerant.

and I don't really care whether he personally was or wasn't. HIS ENTIRE OUTPUT is what is in the national eye, and except for a couple of token efforts it shows.

OR it shows how racist America was in the 1950s, that is the other only possible answer,
the separation of the cultures in the rainbow that is suppose to be America in the fabled
Eisenhower years of America, where the racial divide was among the strongest ever.

So one can pick which scenerio Rockwell himself was in or trying, but it's like the pictures in all US Churches of the Brad Pitt looking Jesus, when in fact, due to location, location, location,
Jesus couldn't in a million years (pun intended) have looked like Brad Pitt.

It's just a fact.

And posting one picture or two pictures Rockwell painted with a black person in it, does not alter the image.

BTW-National Guardsmen were used by LBJ to get past the racists in the George Wallace areas.

So, National Guardsmen=Good idea for the school problem
(and will also help with unemployment and all could be given free college after, so it helps three different areas).

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Response to graham4anything (Reply #4)

Sun Dec 23, 2012, 06:19 AM

7. You can be wrong about everything and still shoot away.

Just pull the trigger and hope at this point. My suggestion is to just punt on this.

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Response to aandegoons (Reply #7)

Sun Dec 23, 2012, 06:34 AM

10. Just checked.

 

He's a gungeon denizen. I should have guessed from his first post in this thread.

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Response to Whovian (Reply #10)

Sun Dec 23, 2012, 06:40 AM

13. PHONY SMEAR YOU ARE MAKING-100% OF MY POSTS THERE ARE ANTI-GUN, ANTI-NRA

 

that there is no differentation of that in the transparency page is wrong.

But 100% of my posts there are anti-gun, anti-nra

and I was about the only one doing so BEFORE THIS INCIDENT and any anti-gun talk was not allowed on the general discussion pages, and was always moved there.
So it was impossible to post anti-NRA posts here in the general before this incident.

Why don't you look into that-
its odd, that you would smear me like this, without basic homework into it.

100% of each and every post in that section I proudly say were ANTI-GUN, ANTI-NRA


WHERE WAS EVERYONE ELSE WHO NOW IS ANTI-GUN ANTI-NRA DURING ANY TIME PRIOR TO THIS.

I PROUDLY STAND FOR BEING ANTI-GUN, ANTI-NRA

shame on others for only being so now.

So your smear is awful.

Do some homework, look it up and see.

and then I will accept your apology.

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Response to Whovian (Reply #10)

Sun Dec 23, 2012, 06:46 AM

15. I want an apology-you are 100% wrong here. I am what you are. And i am also 100% anti-NRA,gun

 

Lifelong Democrat, Old hippie, Liberal nearly Socialist

what I am not is a fan of the NRA nor am I pro-gun

If you look into the posts I posted there, you would see 100% of all posts are anti-gun, anti-nra and before this public incident in Conn. all gun talk was only allowed there, both pro and con and that private group forum has different rules than the general.

Yet I made an effort to 100% of my posts there go and to the limits they allowed there as the group itself there has the ability to delete any post they do not like, make the anti-gun, anti-NRA argument

and if you do one little bit of homework and read the posts there itself that i made, you would instantly see that

I do wish when you look at the transparency page here and it shows what forum one frequents outside the general discussion, it could tell you anti-gun or pro-gun.

I went to THEIR HOME and arugued the point in THEIR FORUM
and hardly anyone else has done that before now.

I expect an apology

and we can agree or disagree on Rockwell, but do not smear me please.

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Response to Whovian (Reply #10)

Sun Dec 23, 2012, 07:02 AM

19. I have been on YOUR SIDE in almost all of the posts you have made here,especially the anti-gun ones.

 

I do wish you had joined me in fighting the guns/nra prior to the CT shooting in their place.

We are on the same side about guns

or mostly.

I do wish you would apologize for your smear of me. Because that is not right.

We are on the same side of about every single thing you have posted here
(not saying you agree with my point of view in other posts, but saying those you yourself posted.

And i am not putting down the image that is painted now in Rockwell style
But Rockwell himself never would have painted that.

So KUDOS to the person who did this spoof of the style of Rockwell.

and btw, I K&R'd it right from the start, in case you don't realize that.

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Response to Whovian (Reply #10)

Sun Dec 23, 2012, 05:40 PM

43. You sure hit a nerve there, whovian!

He's got enough energy to smear an artist all day -- a dead one born at the end of the 19th century, who never did anyone any harm -- but ding him on his gun creds and kaboom!

I wouldn't have bothered contributing my post about Rockwell if I had read the rest of this thread, because some people cannot be educated.

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Response to aandegoons (Reply #7)

Sun Dec 23, 2012, 06:37 AM

11. Why? You don't like what the Guard did when LBJ signed the Civil rights acts?

 

The guard was called in and escorted and made sure the doors now legal were open, regardless of what Wallace said or did.

The national guards are our friends, not our enemies.
Ask anyone in New Jersey who were helped by them during Sandy, bringing food and supplies and keeping us safe.
And i am from NJ and I think they did a good job.

Wish they were utilized on Danzinger Bridge in New Orleans when state or local police shot unarmed people who only wanted to get to dry land.
(fact).

Rockwell's work with a few token exceptions were what stands.
Regardless whether he himself was or wasn't.
Same as say it matters little whether Rush himself is what he spews.
What he personally is is his private biz, and if he is different, he sure don't say so in his public rantings daily.
Perception. The listeners who believe him, think he is what he is.
Regardless of whether or not its a character he is portraying, or possibly like most DJs, that is not even his real name.

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Response to graham4anything (Reply #11)

Sun Dec 23, 2012, 06:43 AM

14. Please go away from this thread.

 

The guard was never intended to become a permanent fixture in Universities.

How well did the guard do at Kent State. They only killed four students.

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Response to Whovian (Reply #14)

Sun Dec 23, 2012, 06:50 AM

16. I await your apology for smearing me. Kent state has NO relation to this

 

It is an offense to the 20 kids to compare the two.
Kent state was a mistake, there was alot of noise and one person yelled fire as was later found.

To blame ONE incident out of millions and in something that is 100% opposite the situaiton here.

Noone here would be protesting.

This is more a protection.

And well, Zimmerman and now a 2nd Florida incident shows the paul Blart idea is not doable.

I myself would outright ban all guns from the streets and have more security to take care of anyone then found with a gun, as any guns in the street except law enforcement would be illegal.

But I do want an apology for saying I was pro-gun or intimating that i was.

I wish you and others would have in the past gone into that section and joined me in arguing the anti-gun, anti-NRA view to those in that section that live and die with their guns.

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Response to Whovian (Reply #14)

Sun Dec 23, 2012, 06:52 AM

17. Guns were never intened to be what the 2nd said either.

 

Let's go away from that interpretation and get guns out of the streets

And Jefferson himself was a fraud and liar. He kept slaves and abused the female ones yet he wrote all were equal. What a joker he was.

But he also stated the constitution is a work in progress. therefore lets give a better interpretaiton of the 2nd or get rid of it like they did to others

or at least do what they have done to woman's privacy- limit it greatly, so that it almost never happens.

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Response to graham4anything (Reply #4)

Sun Dec 23, 2012, 08:51 AM

36. when in a hole ..... stop digging



?w=860



WW II GI w/ a poor French girl

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Response to graham4anything (Reply #4)

Sun Dec 23, 2012, 10:05 AM

38. You know nothing of his work.

<a href="" target="_blank"><img src="" border="0" alt="Photobucket"></a>

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Response to Brickbat (Reply #38)

Sun Dec 23, 2012, 12:31 PM

39. That is a powerful piece or work,

 

The shadows of the killers still sends chills down my spine.

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Response to Brickbat (Reply #38)

Sun Dec 23, 2012, 01:30 PM

40. I could put up 1000 drawings from the Sat. Evening Post that aren't what the 2 or 3 are.

 

but why bother.








the point was made(by me).


onto other things.

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Response to graham4anything (Reply #40)

Sun Dec 23, 2012, 03:18 PM

41. It was his job* and he was paid to produce those kind of images for The Saturday Evening Post.

Last edited Sun Dec 23, 2012, 04:42 PM - Edit history (1)

He was paid and had job to do and he did it very well. So not unless you
are wealthy I have no doubt that you too have to do things at your job that
you don't want to do.


* A steady job during the depression, keeping up the public's moral during WW II,
being a good charitable citizen of Rutland,VT and being a devoted family man
are good things.

BTW your post above shows a date of 1916 so he was not just a schlock artist
of the 40s & 50s.

BTW II you have seen 6 Rockwell paintings in this thread that show a different story then the one
your are trying to sell here. Here are two more he did for the Peace Corp.



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Response to Whovian (Original post)

Sun Dec 23, 2012, 06:40 AM

12. k and r

nt

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Response to Whovian (Original post)

Sun Dec 23, 2012, 07:22 AM

23. k/r

As a life long husband to an elementary music teacher, I got nothing. Except tears,

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Response to 4_TN_TITANS (Reply #23)

Sun Dec 23, 2012, 07:30 AM

24. Packers play Titans today! Good luck (not too much) from a Packer fan!

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Response to Whovian (Original post)

Sun Dec 23, 2012, 07:35 AM

25. My doctor had a grotesque painting by Norman Rockwell in the examination room

His paintings remind me of the artwork from the original Alice in Wonderland. Going to the doctor was never good news. I expected another injection every time I went there. My drama queen brother always raised the tension level so that I was terrified when I got there.

The Rockwell painting reminded me of the medical instruments I saw at "Colonial Williamsburg".

There's not much I like about Rockwell. The best use is a spoof:
http://3.bp.blogspot.com/_3NN-xRGjTnc/SRz0FkFeCDI/AAAAAAAAAnI/RiUawNbp2_w/s400/Navajo+Rockwell.jpg

Here is a kid about to poison the family dog:

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Response to Whovian (Original post)

Sun Dec 23, 2012, 07:41 AM

26. I love Norman Rockwell

Did it promote a fantasy that helped fuel something or other we don't like?

I don't care. I love his work.

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Response to Demo_Chris (Reply #26)

Sun Dec 23, 2012, 07:59 AM

30. Me too

His work reflects a profound understanding of people in general and Americans in particular. I always found his work simplistic until I matured and realized he was way ahead of me and, on the subject of human nature, always would be.

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Response to Whovian (Original post)

Sun Dec 23, 2012, 08:15 AM

31. I have a print of his where a bunch of guys are sitting around a

tree playing cards and drinking Schmidt beer. I believe it was an early commercial poster that he did. I didn't find much of a reference to it but it was a Rockwell. I used to think I had an original as I could see lines that were drawn on that picture. (I believe he created his art work from a photo and then painted it in) I found out a few years ago though, that my cousin Le Roy had used that print a long time ago to make his own signs and used a pencil to trace around different parts of it. So then I knew it was just a print. I might even get a buck or two for it somewhere but it's sentimental to me as it used to hang on my family's back porch at a old lake cabin and means too much to me to sell.

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Response to Whovian (Original post)

Sun Dec 23, 2012, 08:22 AM

32. Funny how people can write pages of disagreement over a picture like this...

 

It is strange to me that people feel so strongly about such insignificant things.

Always has been.

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Response to Comrade_McKenzie (Reply #32)

Sun Dec 23, 2012, 08:45 AM

34. Yes - one of the many roles art plays. It helps stimulate thought process. It is also odd that

when you speak to an artist about this or that work, frequently you enter into a far ranging erudite conversation that seems to cover everything except the subject of said work.

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Response to Whovian (Original post)

Sun Dec 23, 2012, 08:46 AM

35. New Education Reform Motto: No Child's Body Left Behind

Just like the Special Ops.

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Response to Whovian (Original post)

Mon Dec 24, 2012, 05:07 AM

44. k&r

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