HomeLatest ThreadsGreatest ThreadsForums & GroupsMy SubscriptionsMy Posts
DU Home » Latest Threads » Forums & Groups » Main » General Discussion (Forum) » I am not ready to eat cro...
Introducing Discussionist: A new forum by the creators of DU

Sat Dec 22, 2012, 10:49 PM

I am not ready to eat crow and assume the cuts to Social Security are off the table.

I am eagerly awaiting word that the new COLA using Chained CPI is no longer up for discussion.

So far I have not seen anything definitive. I have seen pictures of crows and read call outs for those of us who are speaking up about Democrats putting such cuts up for discussion with a bunch of extremist Republicans.

Let me quote Nancy Pelosi and Steny Hoyer. Then I will quote the words of a union leader.

Chained CPI Not A Deal Breaker For Many Democrats

House Minority Leader Nancy Pelosi (D-Calif.), however, said this week that she did not consider chained CPI a benefit cut and that she could get enough Democrats to support it.


More from Pelosi:

Pelosi and Hoyer keeping an open mind to cuts to entitlement programs

The Democrats will stick with the president,” House Minority Leader Nancy Pelosi (D-Calif.) said Tuesday when asked about the Social Security provisions on MSNBC.

Pelosi emphasized that the details of the plan “are not all ironed out,” and acknowledged that “maybe not every single Democrat” would support it. But she expressed confidence that an agreement backed by Obama — if it protected the oldest and the poorest — would win significant support from her troops.


Steny Hoyer, from that same article:

House Minority Whip Steny Hoyer (D-Md.) delivered a similar message Tuesday.

“Everybody needs to understand that nobody is going to be happy with every provision of a deal,” Hoyer warned. “Some members will have problems with some parts, but … if we get an agreement that the president can support, hopefully we can get a majority in the House — Republicans and Democrats — and Speaker John Boehner and the leader Pelosi and I will convince members that we ought to move forward.”

Hoyer added, “Affecting entitlements would not be our first choice, but then again, I don’t think you get there from here without dealing, in some respects, with entitlements.”


And the vague indefinite words from Richard Trumka on the chained CPI:

Richard Trumka On Fiscal Cliff: Not Ready To Blow Up Deal Over Obama's Social Security Concession

In other words it sounds like he does not want to be the first to blink. If everyone acts that way, no telling what we will end up with in the final agreement.

WASHINGTON -- The head of the most powerful union federation in the country is holding off judgment on President Obama's most recent debt reduction proposal, despite its inclusion of cuts to Social Security beneficiaries.

AFL-CIO president Richard Trumka called the chained-CPI proposal offered by Obama as part of his recent effort to resolve the so-called fiscal cliff standoff, "bad policy" that he and his group were strongly against. But in an interview with The Huffington Post on Thursday morning, Trumka stopped notably short of urging Democrats to walk away from the table because of it.

"I want to see more of the details. But we oppose the cuts," Trumka said. "We'll oppose the cuts. We will be talking to them about a number of things. Obviously I want to look at the whole deal before we make any decision."


Trumka, like others in the labor community, has been placed in a political pickle following the president's most recent offer. Having spent months demanding that Democrats remove Social Security from the negotiating table, he's now confronted with the choice of supporting a deal with those very cuts, or demanding their removal and risking no deal at all. The latter would mean no chained-CPI, which would result in less generous cost of living adjustments for those on Social Security. But it also would mean the loss of two other labor priorities: unemployment benefits and infrastructure money, both of which are also in Obama's latest proposal.


And what about all our calls and emails?

So what do you do when the president puts Social Security cuts on the table for discussion? You can say they are not cuts, they are making it stronger. We have heard that so many times before.

Sounds to me like all three leaders above are not paying attention to what the people are saying very loudly..."no cuts to Social Security." They seem to be determined to stay on talking points and not make waves about it.

When people are ridiculed and asked to eat crow before all the facts are in, there is a dark cloud put over honest and clear discussions of party policy.

It should not be us vs them in an atmosphere of gotcha.




57 replies, 3226 views

Reply to this thread

Back to top Alert abuse

Always highlight: 10 newest replies | Replies posted after I mark a forum
Replies to this discussion thread
Arrow 57 replies Author Time Post
Reply I am not ready to eat crow and assume the cuts to Social Security are off the table. (Original post)
madfloridian Dec 2012 OP
forestpath Dec 2012 #1
madfloridian Dec 2012 #9
WVRICK13 Dec 2012 #38
madfloridian Dec 2012 #57
Dyedinthewoolliberal Dec 2012 #2
dflprincess Dec 2012 #4
newfie11 Dec 2012 #36
madfloridian Dec 2012 #42
duffyduff Dec 2012 #44
BlueStreak Dec 2012 #10
madfloridian Dec 2012 #13
snot Dec 2012 #27
madfloridian Dec 2012 #29
MannyGoldstein Dec 2012 #3
madfloridian Dec 2012 #6
MotherPetrie Dec 2012 #5
JDPriestly Dec 2012 #7
madfloridian Dec 2012 #8
BlueStreak Dec 2012 #12
madfloridian Dec 2012 #15
snot Dec 2012 #28
madfloridian Dec 2012 #35
madfloridian Dec 2012 #46
Rex Dec 2012 #11
HiPointDem Dec 2012 #17
Rex Dec 2012 #18
HiPointDem Dec 2012 #20
Rex Dec 2012 #21
HiPointDem Dec 2012 #22
Rex Dec 2012 #24
snot Dec 2012 #30
caseymoz Dec 2012 #31
kentuck Dec 2012 #14
HiPointDem Dec 2012 #16
woo me with science Dec 2012 #40
limpyhobbler Dec 2012 #51
riqster Dec 2012 #19
madfloridian Dec 2012 #23
MrSlayer Dec 2012 #25
Teamster Jeff Dec 2012 #26
JohLast Dec 2012 #39
blackspade Dec 2012 #32
snot Dec 2012 #33
madfloridian Dec 2012 #34
Faryn Balyncd Dec 2012 #37
Festivito Dec 2012 #41
Doctor_J Dec 2012 #43
duffyduff Dec 2012 #45
MNBrewer Dec 2012 #47
madfloridian Dec 2012 #53
DirkGently Dec 2012 #48
limpyhobbler Dec 2012 #50
limpyhobbler Dec 2012 #49
RebelOne Dec 2012 #56
Jackpine Radical Dec 2012 #52
woo me with science Dec 2012 #54
madfloridian Dec 2012 #55

Response to madfloridian (Original post)

Sat Dec 22, 2012, 10:53 PM

1. Sounds like everybody and their brother are throwing SS recipients under the bus.

 

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to forestpath (Reply #1)

Sat Dec 22, 2012, 11:53 PM

9. They are.

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to forestpath (Reply #1)

Sun Dec 23, 2012, 06:43 AM

38. I'm Confused

I remember President Obama talking against cuts to Social Security and now it appears he will bargain with Social Security. Even if it is just SSI we have to realize that those getting SSI have been determined to be well below the poverty level and SSI is a way to help level the field. We also have to realize that SSI is not even a good try at really helping those people. So, those who are the least able to survive will be thrown under the bus to give the GOP a little something in the deal. I had hoped that the first four years were an anomaly and that after he won the second term President Obama would show backbone and protect the poor. It appears I was wrong. I supported Obama with time and money and quite frankly I feel like I supported a Republican candidate and that really bothers me. Maybe there really aren't political parties in this country but the oligarchy who determines what will happen regardless of an election. Just because we voted doesn't mean we have a democracy.

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to WVRICK13 (Reply #38)

Sun Dec 23, 2012, 07:43 PM

57. You are right. He said there would be no cuts.

And now there apparently are....I am looking for proof otherwise.

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to madfloridian (Original post)

Sat Dec 22, 2012, 10:59 PM

2. Let's forget about the chained CPI

or not chained or Medicare or any of these things that look like they were offered as concessions to the R's and remember one thing;
any law has to be approved by both the House and Senate and be signed off by the President (I know some exceptions to this process exist, but for the most part...) and make sure we let our elected officials in Congress know how we feel about this.
A letter, phone call, email and office visit by constituents letting them know how you want them to vote is the key of keeping that stuff off the table.
Myself, I think it's all part of the bargaining process and Mr. Obama skunked Boehner. He won't offer it now, it's off the table.

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to Dyedinthewoolliberal (Reply #2)

Sat Dec 22, 2012, 11:07 PM

4. Democratic presidents should not play games with Social Security

and he should never have put it on the table.

I don't trust him not to do it again.

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to dflprincess (Reply #4)

Sun Dec 23, 2012, 03:34 AM

36. Agreed nt

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to dflprincess (Reply #4)

Sun Dec 23, 2012, 11:03 AM

42. You are right. Should never have been put on the table.

Never by a Democratic president. Never. Seniors and the needy have been put through way too many mind games.

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to dflprincess (Reply #4)

Sun Dec 23, 2012, 11:37 AM

44. Yep. That's what people can't understand.

It's the fact that as a Democrat Obama put Social Security on the bargaining table in the first place. It doesn't matter if it is a bluff. It's not smart at all, especially if the GOP had called his bluff.

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to Dyedinthewoolliberal (Reply #2)

Sun Dec 23, 2012, 12:00 AM

10. And you were looking for the Senate to add the Public Option

to the ACA bill at the last minute too, no doubt.

It does not happen that way. If the president settles on a bill and has the House and Senate leadership on board, his own party is never allowed to do anything to undercut the President's bill. That will not happen. If Obama gives away chained CPI, then it will be in the law that passed, period.

Considering that Obama has already unilaterally capitulated on that point, it will be exceeding difficult to get that back. The only thing that will change that dynamic is if the president himself feels intense heat and decides to withdraw his support. Frankly I don't see that level of pressure developing.

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to BlueStreak (Reply #10)

Sun Dec 23, 2012, 12:04 AM

13. I agree. As long as so many Dem forums defend such cuts needed pressure..

won't develop.

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to madfloridian (Reply #13)

Sun Dec 23, 2012, 01:26 AM

27. +100%

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to snot (Reply #27)

Sun Dec 23, 2012, 01:32 AM

29. Hi snot...

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to madfloridian (Original post)

Sat Dec 22, 2012, 11:05 PM

3. No worries: I expect it will be back within a few weeks.

And remember, this negotiation is over deficits, not the really deep cuts "strengthening" that's needed. Depending on how bruising the fight is for chained CPI, we might have additional proposed cuts in the near future to "save" it.

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to MannyGoldstein (Reply #3)

Sat Dec 22, 2012, 11:40 PM

6. Yes, they have been rescuing it for years now. It never gets rescued enough.

So they keep trying.

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to madfloridian (Original post)

Sat Dec 22, 2012, 11:07 PM

5. K&R. I'm with you, madfloridian. I don't get where Boehner's failure = SS off the table!

 

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to madfloridian (Original post)

Sat Dec 22, 2012, 11:41 PM

7. Thanks. I think you are very righte, madfloridian.

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to JDPriestly (Reply #7)

Sat Dec 22, 2012, 11:45 PM

8. Thanks, but most here do not. I accept that.

In the short time I have been back 9 people have me on block or ignore.

I can respect Obama's intelligence, respect that he is a power speaker and negotiator....and still strongly disagree with his education and safety net policies.

That is what we are supposed to do, question our leaders.

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to madfloridian (Reply #8)

Sun Dec 23, 2012, 12:04 AM

12. "Most"? No.

Don't judge based on the vitriol. There is a small number who seem really fixated on pumping up the fiction that Obama isn't doing what Obama always does -- negotiate with himself. Yes, these folks are very vocal, just as a small number of gun psychos are very vocal. That doesn't mean they are a majority. Most people on this site are pretty realistic about what is happening here.

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to BlueStreak (Reply #12)

Sun Dec 23, 2012, 12:06 AM

15. I hope you are right.

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to madfloridian (Reply #8)

Sun Dec 23, 2012, 01:30 AM

28. Wow. In your case, I think you shd take that as a sign of your effectiveness.

I wouldn't say that to just anybody.

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to snot (Reply #28)

Sun Dec 23, 2012, 02:49 AM

35. I would like to think that.

But just not sure.

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to snot (Reply #28)

Sun Dec 23, 2012, 01:40 PM

46. Make that 10 today.

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to madfloridian (Original post)

Sun Dec 23, 2012, 12:03 AM

11. I will believe the cuts, when they actually commence

with the legal paperwork to make it so. Until then, I don't believe either party will cut SSI. I don't care how much they talk and bluster. Both parties want to win again.

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to Rex (Reply #11)

Sun Dec 23, 2012, 12:10 AM

17. ssi isn't social security, it's supplemental security income, paid from income taxes; aka

 

'disability'.

it's a welfare-type program, administered by the social security administration, but not funded from social security taxes.

fyi. a lot of people make the same mistake here.

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to HiPointDem (Reply #17)

Sun Dec 23, 2012, 12:15 AM

18. Ah thanks, yes I thought SSI was short for social security.

So it is medicaid for example and not medicare?

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to Rex (Reply #18)

Sun Dec 23, 2012, 12:21 AM

20. not medicaid either, separate program, doesn't do medical. it's income support.

 

Supplemental Security Income (or SSI) is a United States government program that provides stipends to low-income people who are either aged (65 or older), blind, or disabled. Although administered by the Social Security Administration, SSI is funded from the U.S. Treasury general funds, not the Social Security trust fund.

SSI was created in 1974 to replace federal-state adult assistance programs that served the same purpose. The restructuring of these programs was intended to standardize the eligibility requirements and level of benefits. The new federal program was incorporated into Title XVI (Title 16) of the Social Security Act. Today the program provides benefits to approximately eight million Americans.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Supplemental_Security_Income

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to HiPointDem (Reply #20)

Sun Dec 23, 2012, 12:25 AM

21. I believe it would be political suicide for a party

to cut any of these programs. Has either party ever cut social security or SSI benefits? And if so, how did they fare in the next election cycle?

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to Rex (Reply #21)

Sun Dec 23, 2012, 12:36 AM

22. reagan, 1983 -- started taxing benefits & there were some other cuts as well, i believe.

 

i think there was another set of cuts between then & now as well.

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to HiPointDem (Reply #22)

Sun Dec 23, 2012, 12:40 AM

24. Thanks.

Ugh. RWR.

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to Rex (Reply #21)

Sun Dec 23, 2012, 01:32 AM

30. Excuse me, but when they required us to pay more for the same benefit,

I think that counts as a cut.

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to Rex (Reply #11)

Sun Dec 23, 2012, 01:35 AM

31. Doesn't matter if you believe it or not. Question is:


will you protest the proposal? As far as we know, maybe part of Obama's purported chess game is for us to make noise against chained CPI so Repubs know how impossible it will be.

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to madfloridian (Original post)

Sun Dec 23, 2012, 12:04 AM

14. They were on the table...

If they are now off the table, one should celebrate.

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to madfloridian (Original post)

Sun Dec 23, 2012, 12:08 AM

16. Vigilance is the price of liberty. No reason to eat crow, whatever happens. Ignore the agents.

 

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to HiPointDem (Reply #16)

Sun Dec 23, 2012, 08:49 AM

40. This is the correct answer.

The entire idea that anyone should be "eating crow" here is not only ludicrous, but outrageous and insulting...a tactic of Third Way authoritarians.

Speaking out and making our expectations known is our right and our responsibility in what is supposed to be a representative system of government.

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to HiPointDem (Reply #16)

Sun Dec 23, 2012, 02:19 PM

51. +1

The tragic thing is that we can never really let down our guard. The forces pushing to gut Social Security and Medicare are powerful and they have pretty much an infinite amount of money.

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to madfloridian (Original post)

Sun Dec 23, 2012, 12:16 AM

19. Assumptions are never a good idea

Be they in favor of someone or against. Wait for data, bend their ears and watch their every move.

But as the HGTTG told us, "don't panic". Making assumptions and then freaking out takes away our energy and weakens us for the struggle ahead.

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to riqster (Reply #19)

Sun Dec 23, 2012, 12:37 AM

23. I wait for data, and I do not freak out. I will watch every move.

When I see what the billionaires have have gotten in gains for decades, I much resent that SS was put on the table at all.

I know politicians play games to win. But they should not do it with the safety nets.

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to madfloridian (Original post)

Sun Dec 23, 2012, 01:01 AM

25. I'm right there with you.

 

I do not trust them at all. We just kicked ass for these people in November and they're going to turn around and backstab us. It makes you wonder why we even bother. Sure the other side is worse but what does it matter if they're running and we're walking when it's the same path?

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to madfloridian (Original post)

Sun Dec 23, 2012, 01:16 AM

26. If SS cuts are off the table now I suspect that they will be back on the table soon

The President seems determined to provide a sacrifice to Wall St.

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to Teamster Jeff (Reply #26)

Sun Dec 23, 2012, 08:44 AM

39. I hope not, my SS check in small enough now.

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to madfloridian (Original post)

Sun Dec 23, 2012, 01:38 AM

32. K&R.

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to madfloridian (Original post)

Sun Dec 23, 2012, 01:40 AM

33. I don't give a f*** about waiting or not. I care about ACTING,

not judging (which is rarely necessary, or even helpful.)

Acting in ways that might affect the outcome.

Most people tell someone what they're thinking about doing before they do it. If they put cutting SS on the table, it's on the table; and they only way it comes off is if we convince them it will cost them more to keep it on.

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to snot (Reply #33)

Sun Dec 23, 2012, 01:42 AM

34. "only way it comes off is if we convince them it will cost them more to keep it on."

Yep.

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to madfloridian (Original post)

Sun Dec 23, 2012, 06:18 AM

37. Neither am I





Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to madfloridian (Original post)

Sun Dec 23, 2012, 08:52 AM

41. While on the table, let's switch it back to salary based inflation.

Republicans put that in under Bush II knowing they can reduce the CPI by price supports that have the added Republican-plus of giving tax dollars to some of their rich friends.

We should be arguing for more, not the same or maddeningly less.

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to madfloridian (Original post)

Sun Dec 23, 2012, 11:36 AM

43. Good, because they're not

I think the president is determined to cut SS. All of this crowing from the DINOs about chess is complete bullshit. He still in 4 years hasn't gotten one fucking thing from the Repukes, and for some reason we are no longer allowed to bring up the fact that he has proposed not only the chained CPI, but also raising the eligibility age. THESE ARE OFFERS FROM A DEMOCRATIC PRESIDENT. It is disgusting, and so are all of the excuses.

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to Doctor_J (Reply #43)

Sun Dec 23, 2012, 11:39 AM

45. Yep. It's totally unacceptable. n/t

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to madfloridian (Original post)

Sun Dec 23, 2012, 01:43 PM

47. Regardless of what ultimately happens, they WERE put on the table

Even if it was a poker bluff on Obama's part, the Social Security cuts WERE put on the table.
Even if they knew the Republican's wouldn't bite, the Social Security cuts WERE put on the table.
Even if President Obama was completely sincere in offering up the cuts and hoped the Republicans would take the offer, the Social Security cuts WERE put on the table.

No amount of magical thinking can erase the FACT that the Social Security cuts WERE put on the table.

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to MNBrewer (Reply #47)

Sun Dec 23, 2012, 03:42 PM

53. Now that is the true point after all. Thanks.

They WERE put on the table.

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to madfloridian (Original post)

Sun Dec 23, 2012, 01:57 PM

48. The call out ought to be for the fuckers who said he'd never offer cuts.


Where's THAT apology?

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to DirkGently (Reply #48)

Sun Dec 23, 2012, 02:10 PM

50. bingo

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to madfloridian (Original post)

Sun Dec 23, 2012, 02:10 PM

49. I wouldn't ever apologize for defending Social Security

We have the right and duty to make our voices heard when the "leaders" are coming to rob us .

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to limpyhobbler (Reply #49)

Sun Dec 23, 2012, 05:56 PM

56. Me neither, since I am a recipient of Social Security,

and it is my only source of income.

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to madfloridian (Original post)

Sun Dec 23, 2012, 02:23 PM

52. The difference between the chained COLA & ending tax cuts

is like the difference between herpes & True Love.

Herpes is forever.

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to madfloridian (Original post)

Sun Dec 23, 2012, 03:52 PM

54. Of course they aren't off the table.

They will be on the table, again and again, for as long and for as many times as the one percent needs them as hostages to obtain more austerity.

And then the cuts will be passed.

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to woo me with science (Reply #54)

Sun Dec 23, 2012, 05:36 PM

55. They have tried for years.

They won't quit.

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink

Reply to this thread