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Fri Dec 21, 2012, 11:49 PM

 

The Pro gun arguments are compelling and absolutely correct. The AWB was riddled with loopholes

There can be only one way to proceed.

Make EVERY semiautomatic firearm identical to automatic firearms under the National Firearms Act.

It's EXTREMELY difficult to meet the licensing requirements of the NFA in order to own an automatic firearm. There is no recourse but to treat ALL semiautomatic weapons the same. This is the same for an M1911A1 pistol as it is for any of the AR15 or AK47 clones. Semiautomatic = extreme licensing requirements to possess.

So long as you pass an NCIS background check, you're good to go with any weapon that is a revolver, bolt action, lever action, or pump action weapon.

Semi-automatic weapons can no longer be treated any differently than automatic weapons.

Thanks to all the pro-gun folks who have argued there is no way to properly regulate semiautomatic weapons under legal instruments such as the Assault Weapons Ban. You've made it clear we must treat semiautomatic weapons identically to automatic weapons.

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Reply The Pro gun arguments are compelling and absolutely correct. The AWB was riddled with loopholes (Original post)
RomneyLies Dec 2012 OP
Agnosticsherbet Dec 2012 #1
RomneyLies Dec 2012 #2
Agnosticsherbet Dec 2012 #9
krispos42 Dec 2012 #61
Agnosticsherbet Dec 2012 #62
krispos42 Dec 2012 #73
Kennah Dec 2012 #64
wercal Dec 2012 #3
RomneyLies Dec 2012 #4
geckosfeet Dec 2012 #15
wercal Dec 2012 #29
RomneyLies Dec 2012 #31
geckosfeet Dec 2012 #33
RomneyLies Dec 2012 #42
Kurska Dec 2012 #51
RomneyLies Dec 2012 #55
byeya Dec 2012 #83
RomneyLies Dec 2012 #84
byeya Dec 2012 #87
pnwmom Dec 2012 #52
renie408 Dec 2012 #5
RomneyLies Dec 2012 #6
renie408 Dec 2012 #8
renie408 Dec 2012 #7
RomneyLies Dec 2012 #12
former-republican Dec 2012 #10
bluerum Dec 2012 #11
RomneyLies Dec 2012 #13
geckosfeet Dec 2012 #17
RomneyLies Dec 2012 #18
geckosfeet Dec 2012 #24
RomneyLies Dec 2012 #26
Dyedinthewoolliberal Dec 2012 #34
RomneyLies Dec 2012 #38
laundry_queen Dec 2012 #58
geckosfeet Dec 2012 #35
RomneyLies Dec 2012 #40
geckosfeet Dec 2012 #66
RomneyLies Dec 2012 #67
geckosfeet Dec 2012 #69
RomneyLies Dec 2012 #71
frylock Dec 2012 #59
former-republican Dec 2012 #20
NYC_SKP Dec 2012 #14
RomneyLies Dec 2012 #16
RomneyLies Dec 2012 #21
NYC_SKP Dec 2012 #22
RomneyLies Dec 2012 #27
NYC_SKP Dec 2012 #32
RomneyLies Dec 2012 #36
NYC_SKP Dec 2012 #45
RomneyLies Dec 2012 #46
NYC_SKP Dec 2012 #49
RomneyLies Dec 2012 #50
NYC_SKP Dec 2012 #54
RomneyLies Dec 2012 #56
NYC_SKP Dec 2012 #76
RomneyLies Dec 2012 #78
NYC_SKP Dec 2012 #81
nadinbrzezinski Dec 2012 #65
NYC_SKP Dec 2012 #74
nadinbrzezinski Dec 2012 #77
NYC_SKP Dec 2012 #80
RomneyLies Dec 2012 #86
NYC_SKP Dec 2012 #88
RomneyLies Dec 2012 #93
nadinbrzezinski Dec 2012 #89
NYC_SKP Dec 2012 #90
nadinbrzezinski Dec 2012 #92
Ikonoklast Dec 2012 #91
former-republican Dec 2012 #23
RomneyLies Dec 2012 #28
former-republican Dec 2012 #30
RomneyLies Dec 2012 #37
former-republican Dec 2012 #39
RomneyLies Dec 2012 #43
former-republican Dec 2012 #44
dionysus Dec 2012 #19
k2qb3 Dec 2012 #25
aquart Dec 2012 #41
aikoaiko Dec 2012 #47
former-republican Dec 2012 #48
sir pball Dec 2012 #79
RomneyLies Dec 2012 #82
raquel69 Dec 2012 #53
clffrdjk Dec 2012 #57
frylock Dec 2012 #60
Kennah Dec 2012 #63
RomneyLies Dec 2012 #68
Kennah Dec 2012 #94
spanone Dec 2012 #70
RomneyLies Dec 2012 #72
former-republican Dec 2012 #75
RomneyLies Dec 2012 #85
former-republican Dec 2012 #95

Response to RomneyLies (Original post)

Fri Dec 21, 2012, 11:53 PM

1. Loopholes were written into the law by pro gun folk and gun corporations.

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Response to Agnosticsherbet (Reply #1)

Fri Dec 21, 2012, 11:54 PM

2. There aren't loopholes under the NFA

 

So classifying ALL semiautomatic firearms the same as automatic firearms solves the loophole problem in a single act.

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Response to RomneyLies (Reply #2)

Sat Dec 22, 2012, 12:01 AM

9. A very elegant idea.

I hope Republicans in charge of the House can be brought on board.

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Response to Agnosticsherbet (Reply #1)

Sat Dec 22, 2012, 02:52 AM

61. The laws was written by pro-control lawmakers

And current proposals are identical to the now expired ban. This is before negotiation, by the way.

So what does that say about the convictions of these lawmakers?

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Response to krispos42 (Reply #61)

Sat Dec 22, 2012, 03:00 AM

62. True, but these laws are often amended in the process of going through the house and Senate.

The original laws as written are almost never the ones that pass.

If the House and Senate versions of a law are different, they must be changed to agree, and the original drafters of the law may not even be in the conference group. The laws are then sent back for a yes or no vote.

It is common for various groups to put exemptions and loopholes into laws as they move through the House and Senate to make them easier on big business or other interest groups, such as the NRA.



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Response to Agnosticsherbet (Reply #62)

Sat Dec 22, 2012, 12:06 PM

73. that's my point.

The people writing the gun control legislation are starting from the position that you claim is the loophole ridden final result.

They are not serious about action; they are serious about
the appearance of action!

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Response to Agnosticsherbet (Reply #1)

Sat Dec 22, 2012, 03:09 AM

64. Those weren't loopholes. Those were the details of an assault weapon ban.

There are two ways to identify assault weapons under the law.

1) Name specific makers and models, but a company can make a small change and declare it a new model and thus not subject to the law. As such, this is a deeply flawed approach.

2) Identify cosmetic features, over and above semiautomatic and detachable magazines, to identify assault weapons.

In either case, it's simply a way to ban some semiautomatics while one tries to figure out how to ban other semiautomatics.

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Response to RomneyLies (Original post)

Fri Dec 21, 2012, 11:54 PM

3. Why treat a revolver differently

A double action is just like a semi auto...you pull the trigger and it fires.

And have you ever seen those exhibition shotgun shooters who pump with blinding speed? Same thing with lever action...some people can fire those very fast.

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Response to wercal (Reply #3)

Fri Dec 21, 2012, 11:56 PM

4. six shots max in a revolver, and harder to reload than a magazine.

 

Same sort of thing with a pump action or lever action.

ALL semiautomatic weapons have to be treated like automatic weapons.

It's clear.

The pro-gun people have made it clear. It is the only answer.

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Response to RomneyLies (Reply #4)

Sat Dec 22, 2012, 12:06 AM

15. Oh really.


Most commonly, such guns have a 5- or 6-shot capacity, hence the common names of "six-gun" or "six-shooter". However, some revolvers have a 7- to 10-shot capacity, often depending on the caliber, and at least one revolver has a 12-shot capacity (the US Fire Arms Model 12/22). Each chamber has to be reloaded manually, which makes reloading a revolver a much slower procedure than reloading a semi-automatic pistol.


It's also clear some people have no idea what they are talking about.

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Response to geckosfeet (Reply #15)

Sat Dec 22, 2012, 12:19 AM

29. You're right

But I'll add one thing...Google 'revolver speed loader'.

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Response to geckosfeet (Reply #15)

Sat Dec 22, 2012, 12:21 AM

31. You make a compelling argument to oinclude revolvers, too

 

Thank you.

Now we should treat revolvers the same as automatic weapons under the NFA.

Your input is appreciated.

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Response to RomneyLies (Reply #31)

Sat Dec 22, 2012, 12:24 AM

33. Well,, that really wasn't the argument at all. The point was you were wrong.

And making policy on a topic that you are ignorant on is bad policy.

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Response to geckosfeet (Reply #33)

Sat Dec 22, 2012, 12:32 AM

42. I'm not ignorant about guns.

 

But thanks for playing.

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Response to RomneyLies (Reply #42)

Sat Dec 22, 2012, 01:04 AM

51. Knowing revolvers come in a variety capacities is basic firearms knowledge.

Based on that I would say that you are indeed ignorant about firearms.

Tell me would lever action rifles be acceptable in your world?

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Response to Kurska (Reply #51)

Sat Dec 22, 2012, 01:41 AM

55. They're fine unless you want to make an argument against them n/t

 

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Response to RomneyLies (Reply #55)

Sat Dec 22, 2012, 01:00 PM

83. I can reload a six shot revolver in about the same time it takes to eject a magazine and shove

 

in another one by using a speed loader. Other people are faster than I am(or used to be) so, yes, a revolver can be very quickly reloaded.

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Response to byeya (Reply #83)

Sat Dec 22, 2012, 01:01 PM

84. Okay, you've convinced me

 

Same treatment as automatic weapons for revolvers, too.

Thanks for the suggestion.

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Response to RomneyLies (Reply #84)

Sat Dec 22, 2012, 01:14 PM

87. During the course of my career I've had three coworkers shot to death while they were

 

performing their duties. I am pro-gun control; but, after qualifying at least twice a year and practicing in between qualifications, I got to be good with this skill we were required to master. Some people were unbelievably fast with a speed loader.
Just passing this information along based on my experience.
Keep up the good work!

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Response to geckosfeet (Reply #33)

Sat Dec 22, 2012, 01:04 AM

52. What is bad public policy is to make weapons available that can kill

dozens of people in 30 seconds.

Any gun that can do that, no matter what type, should be strictly regulated, if not banned.

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Response to wercal (Reply #3)

Fri Dec 21, 2012, 11:57 PM

5. So, basically you are saying we should ban all guns.

Ok. Fine by me.

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Response to renie408 (Reply #5)

Fri Dec 21, 2012, 11:59 PM

6. Nah, he's saying revolvers and pump action weapons should be the same as automatic weapons

 

Fine.

If he wants automatic, semiautomatic, revolver, and pump action weapons all regulated under the NFA, let's give it to him.

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Response to RomneyLies (Reply #6)

Sat Dec 22, 2012, 12:00 AM

8. Works for me. :)

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Response to RomneyLies (Original post)

Sat Dec 22, 2012, 12:00 AM

7. I have said several times that the harder gun nuts argue

the more they talk me into wanting to ban all guns.

I have never really been all that worked up about gun control, but when I hear some of the crazy mental gymnastics that gun nuts will go through to defend their guns, it makes me start to support some serious gun regulations.

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Response to renie408 (Reply #7)

Sat Dec 22, 2012, 12:03 AM

12. The gun nuts have made it clear, the NFA is our only answer

 

Clearly, all semiautomatic weapons must be regulated no differently form automatic weapons by the arguments of the gun nuts. This is no longer open to any arguments against and must be done post haste.

We've even had an argument made on this very thread that revolvers and pump action weapons should also be treated the same as automatic weapons.

If the pro-gun people are convinced we should regulate revolvers and pump action weapons the same as automatic weapons, then so be it.

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Response to RomneyLies (Original post)

Sat Dec 22, 2012, 12:01 AM

10. Details have to be fine tuned but I'm okay with it.

 

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Response to RomneyLies (Original post)

Sat Dec 22, 2012, 12:01 AM

11. ? Some people can fire revolvers as fast as a semi-auto.

Pump shotgun with a drum magazine is potentially far more lethal than a 1911 wiith an 8 round magazine.

I guess what I'm saying is I don't agree.

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Response to bluerum (Reply #11)

Sat Dec 22, 2012, 12:04 AM

13. Then we treat revolvers and pump action weapons the same as automatic weapons under the NFA

 

Thanks for the input.

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Response to RomneyLies (Reply #13)

Sat Dec 22, 2012, 12:07 AM

17. Oh jeez. More bad policy based on poor information. Just what we need.

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Response to geckosfeet (Reply #17)

Sat Dec 22, 2012, 12:07 AM

18. Brilliant policy based upon the arguments of the pro-gunners themselves n/t

 

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Response to RomneyLies (Reply #18)

Sat Dec 22, 2012, 12:13 AM

24. Quite simply, semi-auto's are NOT automatic. It defies reality to call them or treat them as such.

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Response to geckosfeet (Reply #24)

Sat Dec 22, 2012, 12:16 AM

26. Yeah, right.

 

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Response to RomneyLies (Reply #26)

Sat Dec 22, 2012, 12:25 AM

34. Geeze!

and that's semi-automatic............. why would a civilian need one of these?

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Response to Dyedinthewoolliberal (Reply #34)

Sat Dec 22, 2012, 12:29 AM

38. Hence why the pro-gun peole are right and we must treat them identically to automatic weapons. n/t

 

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Response to RomneyLies (Reply #38)

Sat Dec 22, 2012, 02:25 AM

58. +1 nt

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Response to RomneyLies (Reply #26)

Sat Dec 22, 2012, 12:25 AM

35. Wow. You posted a video. Cool.

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Response to geckosfeet (Reply #35)

Sat Dec 22, 2012, 12:29 AM

40. The NFA solution terrifies you, doesn't it? n/t

 

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Response to RomneyLies (Reply #40)

Sat Dec 22, 2012, 09:28 AM

66. No. Your ignorance of the constitution, laws of the land and firearms does.

You claim the authority to dictate/write/demand legislation on a topic that you clearly have no practical knowledge of.

You lack credibility.

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Response to geckosfeet (Reply #66)

Sat Dec 22, 2012, 09:30 AM

67. Just keep hugging those guns

 

And those of a mind to think "from my cold dead hands", well, okay.

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Response to RomneyLies (Reply #67)

Sat Dec 22, 2012, 09:35 AM

69. Whatever my friend. Enjoy your fantasies.

I am signing out of this conversation as it has clearly degraded.

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Response to geckosfeet (Reply #69)

Sat Dec 22, 2012, 09:37 AM

71. Yep, knew it.

 

The NFA route terrifies you.

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Response to geckosfeet (Reply #35)

Sat Dec 22, 2012, 02:34 AM

59. wow. you posted a post..

we're all so proud.

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Response to geckosfeet (Reply #17)

Sat Dec 22, 2012, 12:09 AM

20. It could work , get rid of the tax stamp , make it shall issue , No LEO sign off

 

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Response to RomneyLies (Original post)

Sat Dec 22, 2012, 12:05 AM

14. It'll never happen.

Nor should it.

In any event, climate change will wipe us out before any kind of gun ban like this will ever get off the ground.

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Response to NYC_SKP (Reply #14)

Sat Dec 22, 2012, 12:07 AM

16. "I hope it'll never happen"

 

Fixed it for you since under the pro-gun arguments themselves, it is the only answer.

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Response to NYC_SKP (Reply #14)

Sat Dec 22, 2012, 12:11 AM

21. Oh, and another thing

 

It's quite possible that Obama could add semiautomatic weapons to the NFA via an executive order, so who gives a shit about the NRA influence on Congress.

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Response to RomneyLies (Reply #21)

Sat Dec 22, 2012, 12:12 AM

22. Obama's not going to do that.

Not going to happen.

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Response to NYC_SKP (Reply #22)

Sat Dec 22, 2012, 12:17 AM

27. "I hope Obama's not going to do that."

 

"I hope not going to happen."

Fixed it for you.

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Response to RomneyLies (Reply #27)

Sat Dec 22, 2012, 12:21 AM

32. Yes, that too. Thank you for fixing that.

He won't do it, and I also hope he won't do it.

It's not even doable, and it would be the single most authoritarian thing ever to occur in this country.

It's one thing to have closely restricted fully automatic guns, machine guns.

It would be quite another to add to that list everything that isn't a revolver or pump or bolt action.

And it seems you'd be happy to throw them in, too.

A government that would do that would be a very very scary thing, I don't trust my government nearly enough to let that happen.

Maybe you do.

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Response to NYC_SKP (Reply #32)

Sat Dec 22, 2012, 12:26 AM

36. I was only saying semiautomatic weapons, which clearly have the firepower to be included

 

It's you pro-gun people making the arguments for revolvers and pump action weapons. I was fine to leave them out but you pro-gun people seem hell bent on including them

I'm only following your own arguments. There was no way to regulate the semiautomatic weapons os you amde it clear, we must treat them identical to automatic weapons.

And now you guys seem to want to include revolvers and pump action, which I am willing to follow your lead and treat them the same.

But nearly two decades of your arguments make it clear, we have no choice but to treat ALL semiautomatic weapons identically to automatic weapons.

You've won your arguments about loopholes and such and now we've entered the end game.

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Response to RomneyLies (Reply #36)

Sat Dec 22, 2012, 12:41 AM

45. The end game is over before it begins.

Here's the deal:

There isn't now and will at no time soon be the public will to treat semi-automatic weapons the same way as .50 caliber machine guns, which is what you're asking be done.

Gun control advocates would do well to stick to what is achievable, something like an improved AWB and stiff sentences and restrictions for felons and criminals.

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Response to NYC_SKP (Reply #45)

Sat Dec 22, 2012, 12:46 AM

46. You hope that, don't you? But your own arguments point clearly to this being the only way.

 

Treat a .223 automatic weapon and a .223 semi-automatic weapon identically.

There's no other choice. You've made that clear. You only wind up with loophole riddled laws any other way.

And it WILL happen, though I'm sure it terrifies you.

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Response to RomneyLies (Reply #46)

Sat Dec 22, 2012, 12:56 AM

49. The ban on full autos had been working splendidly well.

Now, for example, full auto AR15s exist, but they aren't legal and aren't legally sold, so that's working.

And if you want to ban semi versions of guns that are also made in a full auto model, well that's an entirely different approach than your OP, which looks to just ban all semi-autos.

I can imagine it happening that AR15 semis be banned, and semi AKs, and a few other scary looking guns that can also come as full auto, but I doubt even that.

But banning all semis?

Never gonna happen, wish all you want.

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Response to NYC_SKP (Reply #49)

Sat Dec 22, 2012, 01:00 AM

50. Wish all yo want, it's coming.

 

Your desire to hang onto relics of the past notwithstanding.

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Response to RomneyLies (Reply #50)

Sat Dec 22, 2012, 01:24 AM

54. I don't need to wish or do anything.

I'll just carry on with my work and watch nothing happen.

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Response to NYC_SKP (Reply #54)

Sat Dec 22, 2012, 01:47 AM

56. Cool, we;ll kinow where to come to pick up your semiautomatic weapons

 

once they are treated as they should be, identically to automatic weapons.

Thanks to your own arguments about how bad the AWB was.

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Response to RomneyLies (Reply #56)

Sat Dec 22, 2012, 12:14 PM

76. Yay! I'll make cookies!

When will you get here?

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Response to NYC_SKP (Reply #76)

Sat Dec 22, 2012, 12:23 PM

78. Oh it won't be me

 

It will be "good guys with guns".

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Response to RomneyLies (Reply #78)

Sat Dec 22, 2012, 12:50 PM

81. You'll be sorry.

My cookies are da bomb!

Walnuts and quality chocolate morsels and just a bit of ginger!

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Response to NYC_SKP (Reply #45)

Sat Dec 22, 2012, 03:14 AM

65. Oh for fucks face

A tommy is .45 ACP and it's treated the same as a .50...

There are days...really.

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Response to nadinbrzezinski (Reply #65)

Sat Dec 22, 2012, 12:10 PM

74. Exactly. Ban that cartridge and you make useless the 1911 and

Every other weapon designed for it.

We live in a police state, this is no time to ban all semi autos or common ammo.

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Response to NYC_SKP (Reply #74)

Sat Dec 22, 2012, 12:16 PM

77. So you are going to take on the government with that AR-15?

Also the ammo is not at risk. But this whole class, if we were rational, should fall under the 1934 Act. Yup, you can own it, but damn it's a pain...

By the way, if you think a bunch of yahoos can stop a government only 'cause they have a
Lightly underpowered (ROF related) battle riffles..I got a bridge and all that.

Yes, there are ways, but it takes far more than those riffles. That is an NRA inspired, insurrectionist talking point.

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Response to nadinbrzezinski (Reply #77)

Sat Dec 22, 2012, 12:48 PM

80. Nadin, you miss the point.

First, we are increasingly incapable of depending upon protective forces coming to our aid.

Additionally, we see increasing instances of home invasions and associated shootings by misinformed swat teams, you know it happens.

Thirdly, in remote places, people truly need protection from any number of things, and may need their firearms to hunt.

In any event, I'm not defending ARs by any stretch of the imagination.

I'm pushing back against the idiotic and narrow-minded idea that we classify all semis as restrictively as we do fully automatics.

It's a nutty idea, unfair to legitimate owners, and will never ever ever be done, except perhaps within a municipality or county, possibly a state, but never nationwide.

That's all.

And please don't connect my words with the NRA, they don't inspire me one iota.

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Response to NYC_SKP (Reply #80)

Sat Dec 22, 2012, 01:08 PM

86. Then get on board with the answer.

 

Heavily regulate the sale and ownership of semi-automatic weapons. Require a license to own one and require a license on each weapon. Make those licenses renewable, annually for weapons and somewhere between 2 and 5 years for the ownership license.

Allow only federally licensed firearms dealers to conduct transfers of ownership, for a small fee. Say half the transfer fee of maybe a maximum of $50.

Don't use the draconian structures of the NFA, but leverage what we've learned from the NFA to make semi-automatic weapon ownership well regulated.

Can you at least get on board with that?

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Response to RomneyLies (Reply #86)

Sat Dec 22, 2012, 01:41 PM

88. I can get on board with FFL required for transfers, yes.

And for new sales of semi autos and all other firearms, require safety courses and a license, I can get behind that.

That's pretty much what we have in California now.

But I can not support requiring all that for the existing hundreds of millions of guns out there.

I'm not feeling good about annual renewal, either, I don't think I can get behind that.

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Response to NYC_SKP (Reply #88)

Sat Dec 22, 2012, 02:20 PM

93. Not requiring licensing for the millions of existing guns is a deal breaker for me

 

All semi-automatic weapons must be licensed and registered. There can be no exceptions. Without that, it's all meaningless.

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Response to NYC_SKP (Reply #80)

Sat Dec 22, 2012, 01:45 PM

89. Point by point

First, we are increasingly incapable of depending upon protective forces coming to our aid.


I am sorry, if you live in a large city, with a fairly well funded pd that is not the case. A priority one call s handed like a P-1 call regardless. This is an NRA talking point. Is your solution that we all should be packing at all times? Because that is the only way to deal with the average 5 minute response time to a P-1 call

A P-3 read when there is no immediate danger, that might take hours, by put a P-1, they respond.


Additionally, we see increasing instances of home invasions and associated shootings by misinformed swat teams, you know it happens.

Actually we are seeing a decrease in crime, that s a national statistic, or is the FBI in the conspiracy? That includes home invasions. Gun nuts also tote the decreasing crime rate due to moar gunz, pick a lane, you can't have it both ways.

And you are going to shoot back at the swat team? Justified police shooting comes to mind. But hey, it's your choice and like your funeral I s'pose. Instead of taking that line, go to city council and insist on better procedures that will reduce, better yet prevent, those raids.

Thirdly, in remote places, people truly need protection from any number of things, and may need their firearms to hunt.

And a bolt action or lever action woks fine for this. I am aware, my locals hunt and the police can be as far away as half an hour in the back country average. Funny, we have two types of coyotes here, most people never ever see the two legged kind. You forget part of my beat is that back country.


I'm pushing back against the idiotic and narrow-minded idea that we classify all semis as restrictively as we do fully automatics.

It's a nutty idea, unfair to legitimate owners, and will never ever ever be done, except perhaps within a municipality or county, possibly a state, but never nationwide.




That's all.

And please don't connect my words with the NRA, they don't inspire me one iota.

State be state bans don't work... We've tried this. All of this has to be national. And we need to shut down Internet sales too...don't worry, we won't get there.

I own two of the guns that be involved, two semi guns. It will be a real pain...don't worry, our current congress will have troubles passing a restriction on magazine sizes. They won't go all the way to what makes sense, proof, pudding, when was the last time you saw a mass murder committed with a tommy? Oh Mexico don't count.

And I will not connect you to the NRA if you do not repeat their pervasive talking points.

I promised that I would call people for using them.

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Response to nadinbrzezinski (Reply #89)

Sat Dec 22, 2012, 02:06 PM

90. Well

First, not everyone lives in a well funded large city, so that sinks the P-1 P-2 P-3 argument. Stockton and San Bernardino are bankrupt and, in any event, some of us live in the sticks so don't care to have to abide by laws designed to work for well funded cities with lots of Ps.

Second, nobody is going to shoot at a swat team, not me anyway, but loose cannons will be looser if they think the homeowner might be armed. OTOH, if swat knows that occupants have arms, they might be even nastier. And they can be nasty, there's history here.

Third, in remote areas (IMHO) bolt lever or pump would be better, but I'm not going to inflict my opinion on Jan and Ignacio Tweeto and their family in Alaska with laws designed for well-funded cities with quick response times to P1 through P3.

Four, there are plenty of other things, which if done correctly, will make us a lot safer. And this national forced registry ain't gonna happen anyway, so we may as well work on what can be done, not dream on about gun bans and universal registration.

Finally:

Connect me all you want with NRA, as empty and baseless and meaningless as it is.

Insults and guilt by association are just ways to shut down an otherwise generative discussion. I won't play that game, but sorry you feel that way.

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Response to NYC_SKP (Reply #90)

Sat Dec 22, 2012, 02:17 PM

92. Again point by point

First, not everyone lives in a well funded large city, so that sinks the P-1 P-2 P-3 argument. Stockton and San Bernardino are bankrupt and, in any event, some of us live in the sticks so don't care to have to abide by laws designed to work for well funded cities with lots of Ps.

Those response priorities apply to the Sherriffs dept. in the sticks as well. Sorry, but priority of calls is handled the same way. Life and safety, lights and sirens...period.

Second, nobody is going to shoot at a swat team, not me anyway, but loose cannons will be looser if they think the homeowner might be armed. OTOH, if swat knows that occupants have arms, they might be even nastier. And they can be nasty, there's history here.


There is the history there, but you implied that. So once again, go down to your council, even in the sticks, and try to get policies in place that prevent swat from making mistakes. You said that you needed it for that wring headed home invasion by swat, I just pointed out, it would be deemed a good shooting.

Third, in remote areas (IMHO) bolt lever or pump would be better, but I'm not going to inflict my opinion on Jan and Ignacio Tweeto and their family in Alaska with laws designed for well-funded cities with quick response times to P1 through P3.

Any hunter worth their salt uses lever. The AR is not the best choice in sub zero anyway.

Four, there are plenty of other things, which if done correctly, will make us a lot safer. And this national forced registry ain't gonna happen anyway, so we may as well work on what can be done, not dream on about gun bans and universal registration.

I know, I know, we are special and American and damn it, luuuve precious.

This is partly an urban-rural thing, but it is also a divide drawn from utter fear of...change. You know what scares the Jeepers out of me? The IPN alert, you know why? This county has had five, so far, mass shootings...can't wait to cover the next one, really.

.

Finally:

Connect me all you want with NRA, as empty and baseless and meaningless as it is.

Insults and guilt by association are just ways to shut down an otherwise generative discussion. I won't play that game, but sorry you feel that way.



Some of us are fed up with pollies.

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Response to NYC_SKP (Reply #80)

Sat Dec 22, 2012, 02:16 PM

91. Wait a minute here.

First, we are increasingly incapable of depending upon protective forces coming to our aid.


Who is "we"?

I thought one of the first thing gunners usually post is that crime statistics in all categories are dropping due to gun ownership, and that we now live in a safer country.

Are the police getting lazy with response time now that all categories of crime are dropping, and just figure you can shoot it out for yourself if a violent situatyion arises?

Seems to me one of the first things a police chief wants to improve is response time, as it just may cost him his job if he doesn't try to improve it if it is seen as below par.

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Response to RomneyLies (Reply #21)

Sat Dec 22, 2012, 12:13 AM

23. He can't

 

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Response to former-republican (Reply #23)

Sat Dec 22, 2012, 12:17 AM

28. He might be able to. n/t

 

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Response to RomneyLies (Reply #28)

Sat Dec 22, 2012, 12:20 AM

30. EO apply only to the feds

 

The President can't pass law by EO

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Response to former-republican (Reply #30)

Sat Dec 22, 2012, 12:27 AM

37. The law is already there

 

All that changes is execution of the law and the executive branch determines how to execute.

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Response to RomneyLies (Reply #37)

Sat Dec 22, 2012, 12:29 AM

39. You're wrong on it , he can't do it without congress

 

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Response to former-republican (Reply #39)

Sat Dec 22, 2012, 12:33 AM

43. That's what they said about DADT. n/t

 

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Response to RomneyLies (Reply #43)

Sat Dec 22, 2012, 12:37 AM

44. And who does that apply too

 

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Response to RomneyLies (Original post)

Sat Dec 22, 2012, 12:07 AM

19. lol

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Response to RomneyLies (Original post)

Sat Dec 22, 2012, 12:13 AM

25. pleasepleasepleasepleaseplease....

Please lets retry the Miller case.

You realise the whole legal basis for the NFA was that those weapons weren't in common usage on the battlefield?

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Response to RomneyLies (Original post)

Sat Dec 22, 2012, 12:31 AM

41. Okay.

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Response to RomneyLies (Original post)

Sat Dec 22, 2012, 12:48 AM

47. If you repealed the Hughes amendment, you just might get a lot of pro-gun people to go along.



I kid you not.

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Response to aikoaiko (Reply #47)

Sat Dec 22, 2012, 12:51 AM

48. Patience , the devil is in the details

 



Like Obama said in his speech today about the cliff.....


Negotiations mean both sides have to give something

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Response to aikoaiko (Reply #47)

Sat Dec 22, 2012, 12:34 PM

79. I threw that out there a while back

I went a step farther, put every firearm under the NFA in exchange for an open registry and nationwide CCW.


It seemed to get some support from the more reasonable people on both sides..

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Response to aikoaiko (Reply #47)

Sat Dec 22, 2012, 12:59 PM

82. I'd have no problem with that

 

I'd even have no problem with it being much easier to legally license semi-automatic weapons than automatic weapons so long as slide stocks and any similar devices that utilize the physics of recoil to allow rapid trigger action are considered a modification from semi-automatic to automatic, too.

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Response to RomneyLies (Original post)

Sat Dec 22, 2012, 01:09 AM

53. Where has Obama been

& other politicians on the many deaths caused by gangbangers & other criminals in the cities? Their silence has been deafening. Many city neighborhoods are death zones.

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Response to RomneyLies (Original post)

Sat Dec 22, 2012, 01:49 AM

57. So you want to reopen the NFA registry?

Yep I can support that.

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Response to RomneyLies (Original post)

Sat Dec 22, 2012, 02:37 AM

60. great discussion!

kickeroo!!!!

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Response to RomneyLies (Original post)

Sat Dec 22, 2012, 03:05 AM

63. I think it needs to be something this side of NFA

The reason being that if the NFA rules apply to both full autos and semi autos, then those going down the black market route will say, "Fuck it, I might as well get a full auto."

However, as an NRA Life Member and concealed carrier, I do think the route of restrictive licensing, like the Israelis, is the way to go, not bans.

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Response to Kennah (Reply #63)

Sat Dec 22, 2012, 09:31 AM

68. No, the pro-gun people have shown. Nothing new will work.

 

We must resort to the NFA.

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Response to RomneyLies (Reply #68)

Sun Dec 23, 2012, 12:46 AM

94. If we could add semiautos to NFA, then we could build a middle ground limitation

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Response to RomneyLies (Original post)

Sat Dec 22, 2012, 09:37 AM

70. reinstate and eliminate the loopholes....easy...p.s. you're welcome.

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Response to spanone (Reply #70)

Sat Dec 22, 2012, 09:55 AM

72. No no, the gun-huggers have made it clear since '94. You cannot eliminate the loopholes.

 

The more I see reactions of the gun-huggers, the more I know the best solution is semiautomatic weapons being treated identically to automatic weapons.

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Response to RomneyLies (Reply #72)

Sat Dec 22, 2012, 12:14 PM

75. It's actually going to work the other way around , Thank you for supporting that

 

"the best solution is semiautomatic weapons being treated identically to automatic weapons"

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Response to former-republican (Reply #75)

Sat Dec 22, 2012, 01:02 PM

85. Dream on.

 

No way does even the current SCOTUS overturn the NFA.

You MIGHT get Scalia and Thomas, absolute outside best.

On edit: I think you'd have a damned good chance at getting the Hughes Amendment overturned, though, if you could find somebody with standing. It is definitely severable from the FOPA.

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Response to RomneyLies (Reply #85)

Sun Dec 23, 2012, 01:21 AM

95. That's the only way the NRA and gun enthusiasts will support reclassification of semi autos

 

or no deal


You better get working

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