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Fri Dec 21, 2012, 07:59 PM

"Arm the teachers" is a shockingly popular refrain

I know this is anecdotal but I have heard this now from several different people - workers in various stores, overheard conversations at coffee shops, etc.

And this is in the northeastern US - suburbs where gun ownership is pretty uncommon.

I wonder if this is the "word" that is being spread by the RW talk show crowd or what.

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Arrow 22 replies Author Time Post
Reply "Arm the teachers" is a shockingly popular refrain (Original post)
oberliner Dec 2012 OP
Honeycombe8 Dec 2012 #1
elfin Dec 2012 #4
Honeycombe8 Dec 2012 #12
Bigmack Dec 2012 #2
maxsolomon Dec 2012 #3
Posteritatis Dec 2012 #5
MichiganVote Dec 2012 #7
catbyte Dec 2012 #6
RomneyLies Dec 2012 #8
Lady Freedom Returns Dec 2012 #9
madinmaryland Dec 2012 #10
LWolf Dec 2012 #11
tblue Dec 2012 #13
libdem4life Dec 2012 #14
Lizzie Poppet Dec 2012 #21
SheilaT Dec 2012 #15
Raine Dec 2012 #16
oberliner Dec 2012 #17
renie408 Dec 2012 #20
renie408 Dec 2012 #18
oberliner Dec 2012 #19
ZX86 Dec 2012 #22

Response to oberliner (Original post)

Fri Dec 21, 2012, 08:02 PM

1. Arming teachers is the most ridiculous response I've heard to the tragedy so far.

It's ludicrous. We expect our teachers to become law enforcement sharp shooters, now? Esp while we take away their benefits?

Ridiculous.

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Response to Honeycombe8 (Reply #1)

Fri Dec 21, 2012, 08:10 PM

4. I never would have been a teacher if that were part of the job

This is asking TOO much of them. And to spend scarce resources to hire an armed guard each day and for after school events as well?

Yes, there will be some districts and schools that go for it, but it should be with the proviso that the school staff agrees. If a district goes ahead anyway, the teachers should sue for combat pay.

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Response to elfin (Reply #4)

Fri Dec 21, 2012, 08:56 PM

12. I agree. At first I thought the armed guard sound promising, if only as a deterrent.

But since then I've heard too many stories showing they don't deter these crazies. An armed guard with a regular gun is no match for someone with a semi-automatic and the element of surprise.

I also don't like the idea of children seeing armed guards every day. Being exposed to that, which might make them feel even more unsafe (now if the guards really did keep them safe, the children's exposure to them might be something we all have to live with).

But teachers with guns? Being forced to attend target shooting classes and such? That's not part of teaching. We don't want to hire teachers because they're good shots. Ridiculous.

Besides, a teacher with a regular gun, like an armed guard, would be no match for a surprise shooter armed with semi-automatics and glocks.

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Response to oberliner (Original post)

Fri Dec 21, 2012, 08:05 PM

2. I'm posting this all over....

For the folks who think arming teachers is the answer to the school shootings..

Can you imagine some kindergarden teacher... even heavily armed and trained... kindergarten teacher is gonna be able to “hold 'em and squeeze 'em” while under fire and trying to shield her kids..? Somebody who has never fired a round in combat is going to calmly fire a head shot on somebody wearing body armor? Dream on. The "Die Hard" movies are not documentaries.

Where is the teacher going to wear or store their weapon? Kids get into everything in classrooms. Any teacher will tell you about how their keys/purse/grade book was stolen. Imagine a handgun going adrift in a school. You really want teachers wearing a handgun at their waists? That’s a recipe for an accidental discharge. If the teacher’s weapon is locked away securely, how long would it take to retrieve it in an emergency?

Ever hear of fratricide... blue on blue... friendly fire...? It happens with the best of trained troops. Think Pat Tilman. Now think 3 or 4 untrained shooters spraying rounds around a school. I've been in firefights, and I can tell you it's not like the movies.

With teachers - or anybody else - you're talking about a bloodbath before the bad guy gets off a single round. How would the teacher/guard know that anybody with a weapon wasn't the bad guy? They’d shoot each other, or more probably miss and kill those they are trying to protect.

And what do think the cops are going to see when they arrive...? A teacher standing there with a weapon. Bye-bye (hero) teacher!

Teachers are trained to teach. They are not warriors. These days, I'd even be nervous having a cop armed with a handgun on campus... he could be overpowered and the weapon used on students.

I have no idea what to do to stop the school shootings, but I know arming the teachers or students is the dumbest goddam idea I've heard in some time.

Besides, teachers - especially elementary teachers - are surrogate parents, counselors, nurses.....are you gonna ask them to be armed guards, too.? Anybody willing to pay teachers combat pay..?

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Response to oberliner (Original post)

Fri Dec 21, 2012, 08:05 PM

3. Americans understand escalation

DE-escalation is not something we have much experience with. How many drug laws have we rescinded in the last 80 years?

And I think there's also an element of "what other solution is there?", because pro-gun forces have blocked any effective control so thoroughly.

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Response to oberliner (Original post)

Fri Dec 21, 2012, 08:14 PM

5. It's usually coming from the same crowd that passionately hates teachers, too. (nt)

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Response to Posteritatis (Reply #5)

Fri Dec 21, 2012, 08:33 PM

7. Yes. And many of them are the same people who don't want to raise their kids.

Somehow, among all the six faces of the dead educators from Sandy Hook--not one looks like the type who could or would fire a gun. Even if they had an opportunity, which you don't exactly get when some nutjob bursts into your classroom cocked ready and firing.

So, next thing you know, only soldiers will be staffed at schools. And why stop there? We'll need bomb suits too in the schools. Afterall, teachers should be able to remove bombs from schools-training and all that.

These nitwits who advocate that teachers pack a gun in the schools among children are the very same mental heads that should have counseling services and don't.

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Response to oberliner (Original post)

Fri Dec 21, 2012, 08:17 PM

6. Morons. How much collateral damage are they willing to live with

when the bullets begin flying? How fucking stupid can you get? It's INSANE.

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Response to oberliner (Original post)

Fri Dec 21, 2012, 08:35 PM

8. NRA is doing everything it can to change a RIGHT to bear arms into an OBLIGATION to bear arms

 

It's disgusting.

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Response to oberliner (Original post)

Fri Dec 21, 2012, 08:40 PM

9. I'm sorry but I just see A LOT of bad with something like that. n/t

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Response to oberliner (Original post)

Fri Dec 21, 2012, 08:44 PM

10. Fucking idiotic, also. nt

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Response to oberliner (Original post)

Fri Dec 21, 2012, 08:54 PM

11. Not with teachers. nt

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Response to oberliner (Original post)

Fri Dec 21, 2012, 08:58 PM

13. I'm a teacher. Do not arm my coworkers.

Do not give me a gun. We are teachers not killers. We are flawed, stressed, and ill more or less to the same degree as evey other set of people. Not many, but there are bad teachers. We are all only human.

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Response to oberliner (Original post)

Fri Dec 21, 2012, 09:12 PM

14. Can anyone here imagine saying "Arm the stewardeses?"

No, we did what we had to do to protect air traffic, travel and the economy. Created the TSA and created a lot of good jobs in the meantime.

I am terribly afraid that were this many years earlier and I was considering what career in which to invest 5 years of college, Teacher would not be high on that list. And if I were looking at early retirement? That's easy. Imagine being required to take CEUs in gun proficiency, or as a requirement to renew a Credential.

Prepare to see a surge in charter schools and homeschooling. It's not good news for public schools any way you look at it.

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Response to libdem4life (Reply #14)

Fri Dec 21, 2012, 10:32 PM

21. That's a terrific comparison!

The people that are armed on airplanes are the Air Marshals. Air Marshals are held to some of the most exacting standards of handgun accuracy in all of law enforcement (as well as a lot of other very rigorous training). In a crowded, pressurized aircraft cabin, they simply can not afford to miss, even under the pressure of a combat scenario.

Wouldn't something at or at least very near this standard be what we'd want for someone who might be attempting to take down a gunman in a crowded classroom? How many teachers would be willing to put in the tremendous amount of time and effort to attain that standard of training? Where would they find the time?

I'm about as staunch an advocate of gun rights as you can be here at DU without getting chucked out the door...and I think arming teachers is a silly idea.

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Response to oberliner (Original post)

Fri Dec 21, 2012, 09:23 PM

15. I am not a teacher, but I am opposed to guns in

almost any form. Were I a teacher and I were told I needed to be armed to continue teaching, I'd resign. I simply am not familiar with guns, have absolutely no desire to become acquainted with any. Period. End of story.

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Response to oberliner (Original post)

Fri Dec 21, 2012, 09:42 PM

16. I had a teacher in elementary school who was "unstable" to say the lest. This teacher

would often break down in class when she couldn't get control and cry. In describing herself she drew a nut on the board and said that was her, after that she was replaced. I sure wouldn't want someone that unstable to have a gun.

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Response to Raine (Reply #16)

Fri Dec 21, 2012, 10:10 PM

17. I agree - it's a scary thought

I just was wondering how such a ridiculous idea got out there.

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Response to Raine (Reply #16)

Fri Dec 21, 2012, 10:23 PM

20. My 10th grade biology teacher went apeshit

and started turning all the fish tanks over. I can still remember all of us sitting there with our mouths hanging open as he ranted around the room flipping fishtanks and cussing us for the obnoxious little shits we were. And we really were. He was a nice guy who made the fatal mistake of trying to befriend us instead of teaching us with the whip and chair we deserved. Two older guys in the class in particular used to just TORTURE this poor teacher. Til that day that the gym teacher and the assistant principal had to wrestle him out of the room. We were all a little subdued after that.

And I know that if that man had access to a gun that day he would have shot as many of us as he could.

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Response to oberliner (Original post)

Fri Dec 21, 2012, 10:13 PM

18. I have many, many teachers who are friends.

Not ONE of them thinks that is a good idea. While I am sure there are teachers out there who do, I would be willing to bet that the vast majority do not. That is just NOT going to happen. And I live in an area where gun ownership is probably higher than the national average.

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Response to renie408 (Reply #18)

Fri Dec 21, 2012, 10:17 PM

19. None of the people are suggesting it are teachers

And none of the teachers I know think it's a good idea either.

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Response to oberliner (Original post)

Fri Dec 21, 2012, 10:41 PM

22. Let me get this straight......

You want teachers, the bastions of liberal thought, in government schools, indoctrinating your children about things like evolution and global warming while fully strapped? Really?

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