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Fri Dec 21, 2012, 04:14 PM

It isn't chess. It's chicken

flavored cat food...

48 replies, 2650 views

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Arrow 48 replies Author Time Post
Reply It isn't chess. It's chicken (Original post)
JFN1 Dec 2012 OP
JoePhilly Dec 2012 #1
Warpy Dec 2012 #3
DURHAM D Dec 2012 #9
JoePhilly Dec 2012 #30
srican69 Dec 2012 #26
JoePhilly Dec 2012 #28
JFN1 Dec 2012 #4
JoePhilly Dec 2012 #6
cthulu2016 Dec 2012 #11
JoePhilly Dec 2012 #13
cthulu2016 Dec 2012 #14
JoePhilly Dec 2012 #16
HiPointDem Dec 2012 #20
JoePhilly Dec 2012 #29
HiPointDem Dec 2012 #33
JoePhilly Dec 2012 #35
HiPointDem Dec 2012 #37
JoePhilly Dec 2012 #39
HiPointDem Dec 2012 #41
JoePhilly Dec 2012 #42
HiPointDem Dec 2012 #45
JoePhilly Dec 2012 #46
spanone Dec 2012 #27
JoePhilly Dec 2012 #32
djean111 Dec 2012 #2
JoePhilly Dec 2012 #8
HiPointDem Dec 2012 #21
JoePhilly Dec 2012 #24
HiPointDem Dec 2012 #36
Buns_of_Fire Dec 2012 #23
JoePhilly Dec 2012 #25
Buns_of_Fire Dec 2012 #44
reflection Dec 2012 #12
JoePhilly Dec 2012 #15
reflection Dec 2012 #17
JoePhilly Dec 2012 #19
CrispyQ Dec 2012 #31
a geek named Bob Dec 2012 #5
JFN1 Dec 2012 #7
a geek named Bob Dec 2012 #34
Summer Hathaway Dec 2012 #10
4 t 4 Dec 2012 #18
JFN1 Dec 2012 #48
Cha Dec 2012 #38
Summer Hathaway Dec 2012 #40
merrily Dec 2012 #43
JFN1 Dec 2012 #47
forestpath Dec 2012 #22

Response to JFN1 (Original post)

Fri Dec 21, 2012, 04:18 PM

1. Why do most of the people refering to chess seem to have no idea

how chess is played?

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Response to JoePhilly (Reply #1)

Fri Dec 21, 2012, 04:22 PM

3. It's getting to be a lost art

It's too bad, it's something you can learn as a child and which can sustain you as an adult. There is always something new to learn and do in it.

But yeah, Obama has been playing something with Republicans, and they've been losing.

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Response to Warpy (Reply #3)

Fri Dec 21, 2012, 04:42 PM

9. It might be making a comeback

I have a nephew who is 10 and niece who is 7 and they play chess. On the weekends they play online.

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Response to DURHAM D (Reply #9)

Fri Dec 21, 2012, 05:47 PM

30. Get them ChessMaster for Christmas.

They can take tutorials, learn tactics, and play with animated chess boards. Plus much more.

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Response to Warpy (Reply #3)

Fri Dec 21, 2012, 05:30 PM

26. The CEO of my company has played Bobby fisher and keeps bringing it up at every opportunity

I wont say more..

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Response to srican69 (Reply #26)

Fri Dec 21, 2012, 05:45 PM

28. There is a game called ChessMaster in which YOU could play Bobby Fischer ...

maybe that's what he means?

Not sure why you won't say more?

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Response to JoePhilly (Reply #1)

Fri Dec 21, 2012, 04:22 PM

4. Actual knowledge of the game has followed critical thinking skills

right over the cliff...

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Response to JFN1 (Reply #4)

Fri Dec 21, 2012, 04:29 PM

6. I'll agree with that!!!

I find almost any one on DU who uses the chess analogy uses it badly, whether they support Obama no matter what, or whether they hate him with a white hot passion.

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Response to JoePhilly (Reply #1)

Fri Dec 21, 2012, 04:48 PM

11. In casual games with strangers I do not capture en passant because

it so often leads to controversy.

"I've never heard of that!"

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Response to cthulu2016 (Reply #11)

Fri Dec 21, 2012, 04:54 PM

13. That rule drove my kids crazy. I told them not to use it at school.

Even when you describe and explain it, they assume that you are playing a "different version" of chess than they are.

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Response to JoePhilly (Reply #13)

Fri Dec 21, 2012, 04:55 PM

14. Sneaky French chess

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Response to cthulu2016 (Reply #14)

Fri Dec 21, 2012, 04:58 PM

16. Excactly!! "That might be how they do it in France, but not in America!!"

If we called it something like "Pawnicide", they might get it.

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Response to JoePhilly (Reply #1)

Fri Dec 21, 2012, 05:14 PM

20. you mean 'protect the king, sacrifice the pawns & minor nobles"?

 

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Response to HiPointDem (Reply #20)

Fri Dec 21, 2012, 05:46 PM

29. You clearly have no idea how chess is actually played.

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Response to JoePhilly (Reply #29)

Fri Dec 21, 2012, 06:02 PM

33. yes, so you've repeatedly said. the idea is "sacrifice the king," then? for the win? okey dokey.

 

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Response to HiPointDem (Reply #33)

Fri Dec 21, 2012, 06:07 PM

35. Actually, you can win a chess competition ...

By winning the first game of a set, and then drawing the next 6 games.

You don't understand chess.

Honestly, most of those using the chess analogy, whether pro-Obama or anti-Obama, have no idea how the game is actually played.

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Response to JoePhilly (Reply #35)

Fri Dec 21, 2012, 06:16 PM

37. a draw is not a loss.

 

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Response to HiPointDem (Reply #37)

Fri Dec 21, 2012, 06:24 PM

39. Really??? I had no idea!!!!!

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Response to JoePhilly (Reply #39)

Fri Dec 21, 2012, 06:31 PM

41. yes, you're so very clever & i don't know how to play. the point is clearly to protect the pawns

 

& sacrifice the king.

thanks for explaining that.

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Response to HiPointDem (Reply #41)

Fri Dec 21, 2012, 06:37 PM

42. In high level chess, you actually do PROTECT THE PAWNS.

In fact, you might even sacrifice a QUEEN to protect a pawn.

You do not understand chess.

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Response to JoePhilly (Reply #42)

Fri Dec 21, 2012, 06:52 PM

45. not at the expense of the king. the part you seem determined to ignore.

 

the 'little people' may be protected situationally; same as in politics, as in the case of increasing wages when there is outside threat from the nazis or soviets.

so may the middle class be protected, enlarged, shrunk -- depending on circumstances.

but the game is always about protecting the king.

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Response to HiPointDem (Reply #45)

Fri Dec 21, 2012, 07:04 PM

46. again, no.

In high level chess, you do not simply "protect the king".

The king actually engages the battle directly. Often only accompanied by pawns who he PROTECTS.

You don't understand chess. Its ok. Most who use the chess analogy do not.

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Response to JoePhilly (Reply #1)

Fri Dec 21, 2012, 05:42 PM

27. i love chess. so glad i learned it as a child.

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Response to spanone (Reply #27)

Fri Dec 21, 2012, 05:52 PM

32. My dad taught me initially ... sadly we stopped playing when I started to beat him.

In the movie "Searching for Bobby Fischer", the kid beats his dad while not seeming to pay attention to the game. The dad is at the board, trying to pick a move. He picks. And then he yells it to the kid, who is up in his room playing something else. The kid, yells down his next move. And it is check mate.

I was never that good, but I would beat my dad, while also watching TV. He would get angry that I was not paying attention.

The ChessMaster series includes lots of tutorials by the guy would was the "kid" in "Searching for Bobby Fischer", Josh Waitzkin.

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Response to JFN1 (Original post)

Fri Dec 21, 2012, 04:20 PM

2. Like someone here said elsewhere on DU, in chess you sacrifice pawns to save the royalty.

Got it.

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Response to djean111 (Reply #2)

Fri Dec 21, 2012, 04:42 PM

8. That person knows very little about how chess is actually played. Pawns are not used that way.

Unless you suck at chess.

In reality, Pawns are extremely valuable.

First, let's look at their numerical value. An individual pawn has an INITIAL value of 1 point. But together, their initial value is 8 points.

The queen by comparison is worth 9 points, but there is only one queen. And in higher level chess, the queens are often traded off teh board early.

Then we have the rooks. Each is worth 5 points for a value of 10 total.

Then we have the bishops and knights. Each is worth 3 points. So you have 6 points for Knights, and 6 for Bishops.

So in reality, the paws start with a value above the knights and the bishops, and are just one point less then the Queen.

But something else makes the pawns special. They are the only pieces on the board who can increase their individual value.

Now you might naively think that a pawn can only gain value by becoming a Queen, but that's not a complete understanding. If a pawn crosses the board and makes it to the other side (the 8th rank), it can be promoted and become a Queen (actually, it can become any other piece other than the king).

But a pawn that reaches the 7th rank, threatening to become a queen has also increased its individual value. Most good chess players would count that pawn on the 7th rank and worth about 5 points, or the same as a rook. If the pawn is on the 6th rank, you'd usually consider it worth about the same as a knight or bishop. Which means I would be willing to trade a rook or a knight/bishop in the PROTECTION of that pawn.

In higher level chess, you don't sacrifice pawns, you JAM them down your opponents throat.

So next time some one tells you that you sacrifice pawns to protect the royalty, realize that the person knows nothing about how chess is actually played.

White to move ... find the checkmate in 1 move.



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Response to JoePhilly (Reply #8)

Fri Dec 21, 2012, 05:16 PM

21. in reality, everything on the board can be sacrified if it protects the king.

 

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Response to HiPointDem (Reply #21)

Fri Dec 21, 2012, 05:28 PM

24. If you sacrifice all your pieces, you either lose, or at best obtain a draw. But you do not win.

Many chess games at the higher levels end in what are called "King Pawn End Games."

What happens is that the two sides "trade" pieces which they perceive as EQUAL in value. In a sense, to use a phrase heard here on DU regularly, they are "taken off the table".

As a simple example ... in many high level games of chess, the Queens are traded and they both leave the board. They are "off the table".

When such trades happen, my queen is placed off the board near me, and your queen is placed off the board near you. We dont actually trade them.

As the game proceeds, we continue to trade pieces while also trying to gain some other form of leverage. Could be "time", "initiative", "pawn structure", "mobility" ... so on.

In chess, the word "sacrifice" does not mean what you think it means. A "sacrifice" is only made if some other important advantage can be obtained. And that advantage must be worth more than the "sacrificed piece", such that later in the game, a much larger GAIN can be realized.

In real chess, pieces are not sacrificed or traded with impunity. Unless you don't understand the game.


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Response to JoePhilly (Reply #24)

Fri Dec 21, 2012, 06:14 PM

36. i didn't say anything about 'impunity'. i said the goal is to protect the king and get the other

 

guy's king.

to that end, every other piece on the board may be sacrified.

and a draw is better than a loss.

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Response to JoePhilly (Reply #8)

Fri Dec 21, 2012, 05:26 PM

23. C6-C7. What do I win?

(Wouldst that I would ever even GET that far in a chess game!)

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Response to Buns_of_Fire (Reply #23)

Fri Dec 21, 2012, 05:30 PM

25. LOL!!! Congratulations ... You are today's DU chess champion!!!

?w=300&h=225

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Response to JoePhilly (Reply #25)

Fri Dec 21, 2012, 06:42 PM

44. Thanks! (Trust me, it'll be the LAST time I win at chess!)

My normal ending move is when I say "Look! Batman!" and then swipe a few of my opponent's pieces while they aren't looking.

It's sobering when I can even manage to lose "Chutes and Ladders" to a six-year-old.

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Response to djean111 (Reply #2)

Fri Dec 21, 2012, 04:49 PM

12. That is funny.

I'm using that.

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Response to reflection (Reply #12)

Fri Dec 21, 2012, 04:56 PM

15. Its funny, but its wrong. Pawns are not used that way.

Have you ever heard the line that "Newt Gingrich sounds like what a dumb person thinks a smart person would sound like?"

Same here. The idea that pawns are sacrificed for the defense of the royalty , is what a person who knows nothing about chess, thinks chess it like.

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Response to JoePhilly (Reply #15)

Fri Dec 21, 2012, 05:01 PM

17. I don't talk about chess much

I know how to play. But my skillset is rudimentary, as it is not a game I seek out.

So, that being said, I have never had an understanding of what strategies could be employed with pawns. They always seemed so limited, and I usually send them to their deaths en route to a ham-handed defeat.

on edit: I see the post just above now and will look it over. Cool. Thanks.

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Response to reflection (Reply #17)

Fri Dec 21, 2012, 05:12 PM

19. If you want to improve your chess skills ...

Try ChessMaster 10. Its like $20.

It can teach kids and adults how to go from knowing little more than how the pieces move, to actually using them effectively.

All kinds of tutorials and positional challenges, with easy to understand discussions of WHY on tactic or strategy is better than another.

I love chess, so I go crazy here on DU when people misuse Chess analogies.

In addition to what I described above, Pawns are also great defensive pieces. You can "chain them" to push deep into the opponents territory. Or use them to block off all of the black or white squares depending on which Bishop your opponent has left. In other words, if your opponent has only the black bishop left, you can restrict that bishops movement if you can "chain" some pawns on the black squares. And if you have the white bishop, your bishop moves more freely.

Lots of great insight into such things in chessmaster.

btw ... I do not work for chessmaster, not do I get $$ for referrals ... I started to play with it a few years back after an injury that keep me stuck in bed for about a month. Now I work with it just to improve my skills.

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Response to djean111 (Reply #2)

Fri Dec 21, 2012, 05:50 PM

31. Mr. Fish's tribute to Howard Zinn:



Zinn deserves a 'hats off' in a thread about chess & democracy.

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Response to JFN1 (Original post)

Fri Dec 21, 2012, 04:26 PM

5. The problem for the GOP is that they are driving a pinto...

 

President Obama's driving a Mack Truck...

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Response to a geek named Bob (Reply #5)

Fri Dec 21, 2012, 04:32 PM

7. True. But he's driving it

like a shopping cart...

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Response to JFN1 (Reply #7)

Fri Dec 21, 2012, 06:02 PM

34. I don't know...

 

It takes while for a Mack to get u to speed...

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Response to JFN1 (Original post)

Fri Dec 21, 2012, 04:47 PM

10. I suppose it must seem that way

to people who don't know the difference between chess and cat food.

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Response to Summer Hathaway (Reply #10)

Fri Dec 21, 2012, 05:02 PM

18. JFN1 If you were the President

what would you do ?

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Response to 4 t 4 (Reply #18)

Fri Dec 21, 2012, 08:38 PM

48. Okay, I'll play...what woud I do...hmmm...

Well, I know what I wouldn't do - I wouldn't break my promises to the voters, I wouldn't negotiate as if I had no support or justification for a strong opposition to Boehner's machinations, and I most certainly wouldn't be able to refrain from calling Boehner a big orange cryaby...I mean seriously - who could resist?

Outside of that - fuck if I know...

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Response to Summer Hathaway (Reply #10)

Fri Dec 21, 2012, 06:16 PM

38. Thank you, Summer Hathaway, for your perfect response

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Response to Cha (Reply #38)

Fri Dec 21, 2012, 06:25 PM

40. You are most welcome, Cha!

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Response to Summer Hathaway (Reply #10)

Fri Dec 21, 2012, 06:40 PM

43. Wasn't that the OP's point?

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Response to Summer Hathaway (Reply #10)

Fri Dec 21, 2012, 08:09 PM

47. There's a difference?

Wow! Good to know. Good to know...

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Response to JFN1 (Original post)

Fri Dec 21, 2012, 05:19 PM

22. The store brand.

 

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