It is time to put the NRA beyond the pale.

Thank you.

you don't need to do anything to put them beyond the pale. They did it to themselves already.

Great post!

Add a 100% tax to the purchase of all firearms to fund additional police and access to mental healthcare resources.
Our nation is in crisis due to easy access of firearms, not enough access to mental healthcare resources and too few law enforcement personnel.

In the wake of the Sandy Hook Elementary school massacre the NRA has called for stationing armed police at each public school to provide protection for our children.

We propose a 100% tax on the purchase of all firearms and ammunition, the proceeds shall be used to strengthen the mental healthcare system nationwide and hire 250,000 new police personnel to guard our schools.

https://petitions.whitehouse.gov/petition/add-100-tax-purchase-all-firearms-fund-additional-police-and-access-mental-healthcare-resources/RMxBLK9S?utm_source=wh.gov&utm_medium=shorturl&utm_campaign=shorturl

And the mentality ill. Pretty soon getting into the High School will take a naked porno scan and having your shoes off to cross the threshold. Make those kids criminals by treating school like the airports.

Although the operative clause has been deemed by the courts to be "the right to keep & bear arms, shall not be infringed". The subordinate clause does call for regulation and to my beliefs indicates that the right to those weapons is within the context of a Well regulated militia.

and its citizens.

Exactly.

Thank you!

K&R

And for so many people in this country they have contracted it and there is no cure. This is why horrible tragedies like Columbine and Sandy Hook and VA-Tech do nothing to shake these people of this nasty disease. They know they are not healthy, but they cannot break free. It's very sad, and unfortunately we all most pay a price.

If we can't beat the NRA legally, we can turn the public against this terrorist organization, as well as the politicians who take their blood money.

i would ask him to secretly buy 10,000 'minority people' nra memberships.

and plane tickets to the CONVENTION.

and hidden cameras, it would make a helluva documentary

is he in this forum? anybody got an extra million lying around?

The following shows how much money is spent on lobbying for federal gun control and anti-gun control:



http://www.upworthy.com/this-is-a-killer-infographic?c=bl3

a non-profit bribing congress to murder americans? what could be more...american.

NOT!

How can I support any type of gun control legislation unless I know the exact specifications of every type of weapon used, and who makes them, and how they are loaded, and what they are made of? etc, etc.

At least that's what a few of lingering pro-NRA posters have been telling me.

you get 3 guns and 20 bullets at state level- anything more is a federal license

any combination of guns- no gun can hold more than 8

two 6 shooters + 8 shot rifle

two 10 shot pistols

two 8 shot pistols + 4 shot rifle

simple enough?

don't believe those guys- i think some are overpaid spammers

we both quit when the nra started pushing ak47`s as a hunting rifle and became a mouth piece for the gun manufacturers and the extreme right wing.
several yrs after we quit his grandson was accidentally killed by a friend who did`t know a rifle was loaded. my father in law gave up hunting.

I gave up the NRA when they advocated possessing weapons & bullets that could go through my BP vest.

"If you cannot sent your kid to school without an armed guard, you are living in a failed state." That about sums it up. In a single sentence. They would have us turn this country into an armed camp. What the freakin' HELL??????

I'm just very gratified to see the coverage of it - all negative.

...against some 296 million Americans.
NRA looses. The NRA's leadership bottom feeders will never have the moral high ground. They may be hypocrites, beyond shame, but we must not stop calling them out for the clear and present danger to the nation that they are.

It's easy to use the NRA as a whipping boy for the failure to impose strong gun control on the citizens of our nation. However many gun owners and voting members of their families who are not members of the NRA will go to the polls to vote against any politician who wishes to pass extreme gun control laws such as bans and confiscations or even the registration of all firearms.

Many of these gun owners would support reasonable changes to existing laws. Unfortunately it is great fun for many who support strong gun control to insult gun owners. This will do little to garner their support.

The tactics and language used by the gun control side of the debate is causing the NRA membership to skyrocket. If the membership doubles to 9 million members many of which may decide to donate to the NRA-ILA, the political wing of the NRA, the organization will become even more powerful than it is today.

Very well stated.

We should not be afraid.

I am sick and tired of the second amendment right to bear arms being equated with gun ownership. It isn't. In fact, 'arms' includes a lot things besides guns.

Gun control is impulse control. A gun is a final, and far too impulsive solution for too many, regardless of mental health standing. It is reflected in our gun culture and our 'shoot from the hip' lexicon.

The discussion is on. We need to prepare.

There is huge money in that.

This goes way beyond firearms.

show off all that fancy equipment and justify its use.

If you cannot sent your kid to school without an armed guard, you are living in a failed state. And our state may indeed be failing; but giving the NRA more power and more access to our children is only going to accelerate the decline.

...http://insidetv.ew.com/2012/12/24/piers-morgan-deport-gun-control/

and decided to create my own petition:

http://wh.gov/QIOg

It needs 25,000 signatures by January 23, 2013, to have the White House review the petition. I don't have enough posts on DU to start my own thread and I really want to put some light on this. Help!

In fact, it was republicans who opposed the measure then, and democrats seem to be the ones opposing it now. Seems more like a case of perpetual blame the messenger.

a fringe group who represents the interests of paranoid cowards

need to work on the voters.

“Al-Qaida killed 3,000 people in the World Trade Center in 2001. The United States went to war because of that. Because of the NRA, we’ve lost 10,000 people last year unnecessarily. It’s time we went to war,” he said. “And you have to say the National Rifle Association is the enabler of mass murderers. And we’ve got to stomp on them instead of kowtowing to them.”

Nadler said he was cautiously hopeful about President Obama’s statement this afternoon that, “We’re going to have to come together and take meaningful action to prevent tragedies like this, regardless of the politics.”

http://www.salon.com/2012/12/14/the_nra_is_the_enabler_of_mass_murderers/

they have power because politicians respect/fear/desire the votes of gun owners. Votes are all politicians care about. The NRA delivers votes.

your statement-
gives up your status as an individual. you have to be told who to vote for by someone else?
show me a number of how many democrats there are in the nra- it is a political party.
the people who join have already decided how to vote.

do you realize you said they FEAR the vote of gun owners. well, do they wnt it or not?

the politicians already have that vote- they are afraid of the nra taking it AWAY

SOME politicians care more about people than votes.

the ones that WORK FOR the nra care about MONEY
they get money by passing laws which improve gun maker's profits, which go TO the nra and then pols

the nra delivers MONEY to pols because their members buy LOTS of guns

so, really, you are voting for GUNS. if you want to give up your freedom, fine whatever.

kinda ironic, you think you are voting for your own freedom, but the nra is really just one person with 4 million votes for GUNS

edit: pass this along, gun bunnies!

has reached police officers and others who must use firearms courageously and have been made to feel powerless. This is a very bad thing to happen. Shun the NRA.

the lunatic in NY was stopped by an off duty cop with a pistol.

if a cop doesn't need a certain gun, why would a citizen?

this statement- the nra DELIVERS votes

gives up your status as an individual.
you have to be told who to vote for by someone else?
show me a number of how many democrats there are in the nra- it is a political party.
the people who join have already decided how to vote.

the politicians already have that vote- they are afraid of the nra taking it AWAY

SOME politicians care more about people than votes.

the ones that WORK FOR the nra care about MONEY
they get money by passing laws which improve gun maker's profits, which go TO the nra and then pols

the nra delivers MONEY to pols because their members buy LOTS of guns

so, really, you are voting for GUNS. if you want to give up your freedom, fine whatever.

kinda ironic, you think you are voting for your own freedom, but the nra is really just one person with 4 million votes for GUNS

It's nice to read your posts, Plaid Adder.

As I was reading I was reminded of the tobacco lobby that used to have a strangle-hold on our politics. Never mind the health costs, never mind the deaths caused and the millions whose health was ruined, it was "just business" and a product for profit.

If in fact violent crime rates are dropping in the US and as Pew research showed, the majority of Americans were "gun control" over "right to own"**, perhaps the "guns are just another product for profit" groups need a violent tragedy such as Newtown to shore up their market share.

**An article from Pew Research that shows Americans who favored "gun control" held a larger majority over "right to own" until 2008; remember the tea baggers and their appearance on the national stage and "their" messages about guns and "socialism"; and what appears to be a return to pre-tea-time attitudes about control versus ownership. No wonder la pierre said that if Barack Obama was re-elected he would "lose more on the election battlefield than our nation has lost in any battle, any time, anywhere in the history of our nation." quoted by Lawrence O'Donnell on The Last Word (see video below).

With the tea baggers losing their audience, the nra needs another vehicle to catapult the fear for profit.

is insidious and they need to be shut down. From a news story today:

"When law enforcement officers recover a gun and serial number, workers at the bureau's National Tracing Center here -- a windowless warehouse-style building on a narrow road outside town -- begin making their way through a series of phone calls, asking first the manufacturer, then the wholesaler and finally the dealer to search their files to identify the buyer of the firearm. About a third of the time, the process involves digging through records sent in by companies that have closed, in many cases searching by hand through cardboard boxes filled with computer printouts, hand-scrawled index cards or even water-stained sheets of paper.

In an age when most data is available with a few keystrokes, the ATF is forced to follow this manual routine because the idea of establishing a central database of gun transactions has been rejected by lawmakers in Congress who have sided with the National Rifle Association, which argues that such a database poses a threat to the Second Amendment. In other countries, gun rights groups argue, governments have used gun registries to confiscate the firearms of law-abiding citizens."

http://www.mercurynews.com/news/ci_22260092/legislative-handcuffs-limit-atfs-ability-fight-gun-crime

The bulk of the money the NRA used to buy and threaten the politicians who placed these handcuffs on our government did not come from its pitiful 4 million members, but from its corporate sponsors. The NRA, and its Gungeon supporters are just puppets of the gun manufacturers whose business it is to sell guns.

nice work- mail it to this guy! the gun lubbers seem to be having a bit of trouble refuting you... i hope they read it all. the whole thread.

“I would hope that these more frequent mass murders would change that politics,” he added. “This is so heartbreaking, and so terrible that this kind of thing happens. And happens routinely now. I think the next time it happens it isn’t even going to be as a big a headline as it used to be. It’s becoming routine.”

http://www.salon.com/2012/12/14/the_nra_is_the_enabler_of_mass_murderers/

***

https://www.nsfwcorp.com/dispatch/newtown

From "Operation Wetback" To Newtown: Tracing The Hick Fascism Of The NRA

maybe it needs a nap?

I have no respect for the NRA or the GOP, BUT you should love them. They controlled all three branches of the government and didn't take the opportunity to rescind all the gun laws and restore the 2nd Amendment to it's virgin state. Instead they wrote more gun laws!!!


As to guns at school. Yes, we need the National Guard to start riding our school buses for pick up and return, and being at the schools all day long for their security. This protection should have occurred 32 years ago, and you can see the carnage that has occurred since.

Besides armed guards, each school needs to be secured with fencing & razor wire, turn style gates, cameras, metal detectors, ground sensors on the perimeter, safe vaults with communicating equipment in classrooms, electronic door locks, bullet proof windows, electric window shades.

You see folks, it is OK to do this at the airport for the elite, or government buildings and congress, and some corporations for the power players, but we can't do it to protect the children?? You are as insane as the shooters if you think in your wildest imagination taking away a few select rifles is going to stop the child blood shed in American schools. Absolutely nuts!! If we can afford trillion dollar wars, we can afford Cadillac schools for child safety. Most of it will be one time expenses, limited maintenance, and having the National Guard. They don't have to be dressed in uniforms, or display weapons. Razor wire doesn't have to be as visible at the top of fencing, and the idea you are creating prison, LOL, no we are creating a safe sanctuary for children.

that our schools need to be converted into maximum security prisons?

Really, this post is beyond insulting. I would have alerted on it but figured it's better to leave as is, to show people how truly desperate gun advocates are.

"If we can afford trillion dollar wars..." Well, we can't afford those wars, can we? We can't even afford basic infrastructure maintenance. We've been slashing school budgets for years, and you want to spend what, eight billion, ten billion a year, all to protect the interests of the manufacturers of "the Bushmaster man card" and those deluded enough to believe they NEED them?

But getting back to the main point, calling folks with whom you disagree "as insane as the shooters" is really over the top. I think you owe folks on this thread an apology.

Here's the KEY:

"If you cannot send your kid to school without an armed guard, you are living in a failed state. And our state may indeed be failing; but giving the NRA more power and more access to our children is only going to accelerate the decline."



"If you cannot send your kid to school without an armed guard, you are living in a failed state."

"If you cannot send your kid to school without an armed guard, you are living in a failed state."

"If you cannot send your kid to school without an armed guard, you are living in a failed state."

"If you cannot send your kid to school without an armed guard, you are living in a failed state."


I can't think of one thing to add. This NAILS it - beyond all nailings.


As they say on TV, "we're gonna have to leave it there."

full disclosure - I like to think I am economically conservative, but socially- somewhat liberal. I do not support the republican planks with respect to women's rights, gay rights, etc. Basically - individual freedoms that I have no right to legislate to you, sort of like I don't believe you should be able to tell me if I can own a gun. - I am Republican.

Plaid Adder - this is the first time I've been to this site. and I apologize plaid adder, not meaning to call you out. But I have to say, your essay here is the stereotypical commentary re NRA and liberal politics. It is the Rush Limbaugh version on the liberal side - and by that I mean - it throws red meat to your fellow lions, but does little to actually move us collectively toward a better answer.

So here's some thoughts from a conservative on the subject of gun control. I won't repeat the typical laundry list , since you won't listen to it anyway. But consider this, a gun without ammo is a very poor excuse for a hammer. Ammo is readily available and fairly cheap. That includes reloading components (primer, powder, bullet, brass). We need tax revenue (that's another topic). Why not focus the argument on access to ammunition and cost of ammunition. The 2nd allows me to have my guns - whether you like it or not. But it doesn't say anything about cost. So , as others here have said, tax guns , ok, yes. But ammo , tax that heavily, like cigarettes. Control access via licensing, serialize the bullet base, etc.

I propose that the stereotypical liberal agenda re guns is misguided. It casts its net around far too many lawful citizens for it to gain wide acceptance. For effective answers, we collectively should consider activities which help us enforce lawful access, and conversely, help us identify and prevent unlawful. Traceable ammunition is one such concept that perhaps deserves an open dialog? Easy enough I think. All ammo already has identification stamped into its brass. This would just add more (to brass and bullet, you should know the difference if you intend to partake in the dialog) - and add cost of course - but that's part of the point. Once ammo has traceability, then it can be assigned to a licensed purchaser. Let me have my guns, but make me responsible for what comes out of them. Why you (collective liberals) have not grabbed on to this concept is beyond me - don't push for gun control, push for bullet responsibility. After all- it is the bullet that does the heart breaking damage.

It is an area where most conservatives and most democrats (I can't use the word liberal, as it derives from liberty - and that does not quite fit into a discussion of restricting rights, does it?) might agree - we all want gun violence to stop. You have your standard talking points, and I have mine. Let's find some new ones and start taking some positive action.

One final comment, free advice, no charge. When you start a lecturing essay (not this one, but many others I have read, including many talking heads on tv from your side) with "the gun was a bushmaster" and "just gotta have your Glock", and "the gun used was a "sig sour", and "we should immediately ban all automatic rifles" , - etc, etc. - you are telegraphing to those of us who understand firearms that you have not the first clue, that you have done no research whatsoever, and therefore, we make the rather legitimate leap to the conclusion that everything else you say on this topic will be likewise, misinformed. For some clues into this - bushmaster is one of a hundred manufacturers who produce basically the exact same weapon. The gun was an AR-15 in 5.56 caliber. Automatic weapons require the better part of a year to obtain (legally) - including finger prints, photographs, sign off by local law enforcement officer and Federal review. Very few people bother with this, Semi-automatic weapons, however, are quite popular. We do the same thing with silencers (an aside - in Britain, it is a requirement in most places that a silencer be used , to protect hearing and minimize disturbance. In the US - silencers suffer from movie ignorance and are highly regulated).

anyway - I am only hoping to start the discussion with an effort to find where we might agree. As opposed to each of us continuing to preach our talking points to our cheering base. Lest we be confused for congressmen.

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