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Fri Dec 21, 2012, 08:40 AM

Nat'l Review: "Boys using Easy-Bake ovens" were the problem at Sandy Hook.

I am, however, blaming our culture that denies, dismisses, and denigrates the masculine traits—including size, strength, male aggression and a male facility for strategic thinking–that until recently have been viewed as essential for building a society and protecting its weaker members. We now have Hanna Rosin at Slate urging parents to buy their little boys Easy Bake ovens so they’ll be more like little girls. Women are less aggressive by instinct, and they are typically trained to be nice. I praised and continue to praise the courage of the Sandy Hook principal, Dawn Hochsburg, and the teachers who gave up their lives along with her, but with some men on the scene who knew what to do, some of those lives might have been saved.


http://www.nationalreview.com/corner/336275/newtown-my-critics-charlotte-allen#
http://www.dailykos.com/story/2012/12/21/1172679/-National-Review-Boys-using-Easy-Bake-ovens-were-the-problem-at-Sandy-Hook

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Reply Nat'l Review: "Boys using Easy-Bake ovens" were the problem at Sandy Hook. (Original post)
kpete Dec 2012 OP
reformist2 Dec 2012 #1
kentauros Dec 2012 #13
seabeyond Dec 2012 #17
kentauros Dec 2012 #21
seabeyond Dec 2012 #26
kentauros Dec 2012 #31
seabeyond Dec 2012 #34
kentauros Dec 2012 #56
seabeyond Dec 2012 #63
Tommy_Carcetti Dec 2012 #40
apnu Dec 2012 #51
reformist2 Dec 2012 #64
seabeyond Dec 2012 #2
madokie Dec 2012 #3
Buzz Clik Dec 2012 #4
Cobalt Violet Dec 2012 #5
reformist2 Dec 2012 #9
JanMichael Dec 2012 #6
TheOther95Percent Dec 2012 #7
Burma Jones Dec 2012 #8
smirkymonkey Dec 2012 #10
Dash87 Dec 2012 #11
seabeyond Dec 2012 #18
byeya Dec 2012 #12
Shankapotomus Dec 2012 #14
yardwork Dec 2012 #35
muriel_volestrangler Dec 2012 #15
Downwinder Dec 2012 #16
kentauros Dec 2012 #22
flobee1 Dec 2012 #42
HughBeaumont Dec 2012 #19
NewJeffCT Dec 2012 #20
Jennicut Dec 2012 #23
Aerows Dec 2012 #59
Jennicut Dec 2012 #62
Jokerman Dec 2012 #24
reformist2 Dec 2012 #25
TwilightGardener Dec 2012 #38
My Good Babushka Dec 2012 #27
Odin2005 Dec 2012 #28
Scootaloo Dec 2012 #29
sinkingfeeling Dec 2012 #30
CanonRay Dec 2012 #32
6000eliot Dec 2012 #33
Tsiyu Dec 2012 #36
TwilightGardener Dec 2012 #37
RKP5637 Dec 2012 #46
DonRedwood Dec 2012 #39
fadedrose Dec 2012 #41
TwilightGardener Dec 2012 #48
fadedrose Dec 2012 #61
mainer Dec 2012 #43
RKP5637 Dec 2012 #44
dawg Dec 2012 #45
Enrique Dec 2012 #47
reformist2 Dec 2012 #49
bhikkhu Dec 2012 #50
dawg Dec 2012 #52
Dirty Socialist Dec 2012 #53
LineReply .
LWolf Dec 2012 #54
KansDem Dec 2012 #55
Glassunion Dec 2012 #57
Aerows Dec 2012 #58
MadrasT Dec 2012 #60
ck4829 Dec 2012 #65
arthritisR_US Dec 2012 #66
VOX Dec 2012 #67

Response to kpete (Original post)

Fri Dec 21, 2012, 08:44 AM

1. How is baking "feminine"? Or why is grilling "masculine"?


My God, it's food - we all eat food. I never will understand this mentality.

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Response to reformist2 (Reply #1)

Fri Dec 21, 2012, 09:01 AM

13. I'm not sure where that mentality originates

but this writer has been 100% conditioned by television advertising. That is, men grill, women do everything else to do with cooking. Nevermind the success of world-class chefs that are men, though I'd guess they wouldn't respect the women that are also world-class chefs.

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Response to kentauros (Reply #13)

Fri Dec 21, 2012, 09:14 AM

17. told niece the other day, she was getting her tush in the kitchen and learning how to make tortillas

tomorrow.

she rolled her eyes on the not cooking.

i told her, my day, women took pride in not cooking and did it more of a statement cause was expected of us. today, our guys are cooking as much as our gals. she had no excuse not to learn the basics. lol

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Response to seabeyond (Reply #17)

Fri Dec 21, 2012, 09:22 AM

21. I will admit that I've tried to make torillas

and I suck at it! lol But, I do make a good guacamole

Now, I don't know that anyone here would want their boys in Boys Scouts these days, but I do attribute some of my cooking skills to being a scout. That, and my parents letting me "help" with things like making cookies, fudge, bread, and so on. I think they wanted us to be able to function on our own later in life. Not to mention that it was fun for us kids

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Response to kentauros (Reply #21)

Fri Dec 21, 2012, 09:29 AM

26. following instructions, working on math. there are wonderful teachings in cooking.

and yes, a connection and play in helping. had 5 yr old niece in kitchen the other day making christmas sugar cookies. was a blast singing the christmas songs she had learned.

i have never done the tortillas. nephews GF is coming over for dinner, to teach me how. i love it. she is 19. will be a blast.

hubby will be doing the rest. and yes, he makes the killer guacamole.

it is funny cause i did not learn to cook, refused. but my two brothers and husband love to cook. our holiday dinners have all four of us in the kitchen. it makes it really easy to put together.

especially once i have started on the wine. lol.

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Response to seabeyond (Reply #26)

Fri Dec 21, 2012, 09:35 AM

31. When I was married, my wife and I learned very quickly

that we couldn't work together in the kitchen. We both wanted to have full run of the counters and equipment! She's a much better cook than I, while I'm the baker in the family.

When my girlfriend visits this coming Spring, we may work together some, though I think most of it will be instruction. She's not much of a cook, either, so I hope I can show her some basics. Plus she wants to be there when I make truffles

It sounds like y'all have a lot of fun and that's important

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Response to kentauros (Reply #31)

Fri Dec 21, 2012, 10:07 AM

34. gotta have fun....





yum...


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Response to seabeyond (Reply #34)

Fri Dec 21, 2012, 11:14 AM

56. Wow!

I would almost hate to eat that. Almost...

That's also a bit beyond the aesthetics of my creations, but I emphasize taste over looks anyway:

Flourless Chocolate Cake - Step-by-Step (with photos) (dial-up warning)

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Response to kentauros (Reply #56)

Fri Dec 21, 2012, 12:53 PM

63. i am sooo glad you linked to that thread. is this your equip? wowsers. hubby would love all that

stuff, even though i do the baking and he refuses.

but... no way i am going to try that, though it looks very interesting with no flour. i almost want to try, just to see what it tastes like.

that is fun.

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Response to reformist2 (Reply #1)

Fri Dec 21, 2012, 10:29 AM

40. Have they ever seen the show Top Chef?

At least half the contestants on it are men.

Good, manly men that would have made the NR author proud.

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Response to reformist2 (Reply #1)

Fri Dec 21, 2012, 11:01 AM

51. Simple: "meat" is manly. Its akin to killing an animal and cooking it in the field.

Its stupid, I know. But cooking outside is masculine because the domain of the home and hearth is considered feminine and that takes place inside the domicile. Outside cooking is opposite, therefore it must be masculine. That's a human trope that's lasted for thousands of years spanning most cultures around the globe.

Like I said, it is stupid, I have a lot of male friends who like to cook inside. My father-in-law is a great cook (his zuppa de peche is top notch), one of my best friends is a trained chef, and I'm very friendly with a sushi chef, also male. None of their masculinity is in jeopardy. My 6 year-old son is a typical, rambunctious boy who loves to rough house. He also loves to bake cookies and other deserts, not because he's enjoying being "girly," but because he enjoys doing something with us and the attention he gets while cooking with his parents.

But, you asked a question, and I feel this is the answer.

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Response to apnu (Reply #51)

Fri Dec 21, 2012, 01:37 PM

64. Thanks. That does seem to be the root of it. You would think we could move on already, tho. :)

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Response to kpete (Original post)

Fri Dec 21, 2012, 08:46 AM

2. i have always been agressive. never physically violent. and always aggressive. uh oh. i am a woman.

i know plenty of women that are aggressive. i know plenty of men that are not. my husband is not aggressive. uh oh, he is a man.

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Response to kpete (Original post)

Fri Dec 21, 2012, 08:47 AM

3. Lots of crazy out there

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Response to kpete (Original post)

Fri Dec 21, 2012, 08:47 AM

4. I guess this misguided nonsense needs to be seen. But...

Geez. This sort of ignorance gets a paycheck?

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Response to kpete (Original post)

Fri Dec 21, 2012, 08:49 AM

5. Guns don't kill people, Easy Bake Ovens kill people.

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Response to Cobalt Violet (Reply #5)

Fri Dec 21, 2012, 08:55 AM

9. We need a journalist to trap a Tea-Bagger on this.


I'm thinking this is a job for that Soledad O'Brien...

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Response to kpete (Original post)

Fri Dec 21, 2012, 08:50 AM

6. I want Hanna Rosin to keep on writing! I love her

Everytime she sits down at the keyboard, that publication loses a reader.

My friend who posts stuff all the time from that site....just posted a photo last week of his 4 year old son...taking his brownies out of an Easy Bake oven. And no, I am not sending this to him He'll see it.

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Response to kpete (Original post)

Fri Dec 21, 2012, 08:50 AM

7. Where do I start?

I can see where this is going. The National Review is going to come out in support of the US invading Canada on account of the Sandy Hook invasion. These idiots are batshit crazy.

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Response to kpete (Original post)

Fri Dec 21, 2012, 08:53 AM

8. Oh, for Pete's sake

A guy has a history of mental health issues. His Mom kept guns in the house, one of them particularly useful for human slaughter. The guy believes Mom is going to have him institutionalized, the guy lashes out in about as gut wrenching a way as can be.

The lesson is not that men have been emasculated or that men aren't emasculated enough...it's that you need to keep weapons away from mentally ill people.

And maybe take some of those cops busting pot heads and post them at schools.

Oh well, people that make a living as gaseous windbags are certainly going to make hay with this horror - I say Fuck 'em

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Response to kpete (Original post)

Fri Dec 21, 2012, 08:57 AM

10. WTF?

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Response to kpete (Original post)

Fri Dec 21, 2012, 08:57 AM

11. So tired of the machismo in this culture.

It's dying, but some are desperately clinging to it.

These are the same that think that boys beating on the physically weaker is justified because the targets need to "man up."

Some of them even go as far as to justify rape, because that's just "boys being boys," and real men "take what they want."

The writer is a whiny child if she believes this. I think they have contests to see who can be the most obnoxious, and the winner gets published.

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Response to Dash87 (Reply #11)

Fri Dec 21, 2012, 09:15 AM

18. yes. they are holding on tight. they do not get, that they lose nothing and gain everything

letting go of these conditionings.

they are 'fraid.

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Response to kpete (Original post)

Fri Dec 21, 2012, 08:57 AM

12. From Seinfeld:

 

Mr. S: It's those damn culottes you made him wear when he was five!

Mrs. S: They weren't culottes, they were shorts.

Mr. S: They were culottes! You bought them in the girl's department.

Mrs. S: By mistake! By mistake, Jerry! I'm sorry!

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Response to kpete (Original post)

Fri Dec 21, 2012, 09:02 AM

14. Does he not see that the whole tragedy

was perpetrated by an aggressive male?

If aggressive males were not doing most of the shooting in the first place, there would be no need for other aggressive males to come to the rescue. Dumb.

Does he think we would not notice that?

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Response to Shankapotomus (Reply #14)

Fri Dec 21, 2012, 10:09 AM

35. I noticed that. Apparently it's the women's fault for not defending themselves better.

It's not the man's fault for murdering all those people. It's the women's fault for not being violent enough.

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Response to kpete (Original post)

Fri Dec 21, 2012, 09:03 AM

15. She's trying to prove her "only men can think" point all on her own

She's stuck in the "I'm dumb, so anyone like me must be dumb too" trap.

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Response to kpete (Original post)

Fri Dec 21, 2012, 09:12 AM

16. Google "top chefs in the world"

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Response to Downwinder (Reply #16)

Fri Dec 21, 2012, 09:25 AM

22. Or for that matter, Iron Chef



Then again, I grew up watching Julia Child with my mother

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Response to Downwinder (Reply #16)

Fri Dec 21, 2012, 10:31 AM

42. No kidding!

I want to see him call Gordon Ramsey "girley" to his face!
or tell Bourdain that cooking will turn him into a woman!

Has he ever been part of a restaurant kitchen crew? Bourdain hits the nail on the head when he describes it as being the captain of a pirate ship.

I always enjoyed this passage out of Kitchen Confidential-
“Whachoo want, white boy? Burn cream? A Band-Aid?
Then he raised his own enormous palms to me, brought them up real close so I could see them properly; the hideous constellation of water-filled blisters, angry red welts from grill marks, the old scars, the raw flesh where steam or hot fat had made the skin simply roll off. They looked like the claws of some monstrous science-fiction crustacean, knobby and calloused under wounds old and new. I watched, transfixed, as Tyrone - his eyes never leaving mine - reached slowly under the broiler and, with one naked hand, picked up a glowing-hot sizzle-platter, moved it over to the cutting board, and set it down in front of me.
He never flinched.”

There is nothing "feminine" about cooking a damn good meal.

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Response to kpete (Original post)

Fri Dec 21, 2012, 09:17 AM

19. Ah, the Buckley TeaRag chimes in.

I'm almost positive this is read-worthy

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Response to kpete (Original post)

Fri Dec 21, 2012, 09:22 AM

20. Girls/women not aggressive? I guess she doesn't get out much

and, perhaps the reason why there are so few male teachers is because men are often discouraged from teaching younger children - there will be people who look at a guy as strange/weird if they're a teacher in an elementary school. ("Why does that man want to be around young children - is he some freak like Michael Jackson?")

Heck, I can't count the number of times I was the only male in PTA/PTO meetings over the last 4 years, even though the women in the room were doctors, lawyers, actuaries, engineers, etc.

While there are certainly more women in leadership roles in schools than there were 30-40 years ago, I'm guessing the percentage of elementary school teachers hasn't changed radically since I was attending elementary schools - I don't rememember many male teachers in elementary schools when I grew up. There were a few in middle school, and a pretty good amount in high school, though. (And, now that I think about it, my elementary school principal was a woman.)

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Response to kpete (Original post)

Fri Dec 21, 2012, 09:26 AM

23. "Some men on the scene who knew what to do".

Disgusting words. And they forget the male business teacher that lost his life at Columbine trying to stop Eric Harris and Dylan Klebold. Their arguments are utter crap. Plus, I work in elementary schools. There are not a lot of men that want to teach little children. There are some but it is mostly women that become elementary school teachers, Principals, school secretaries. Maybe because society makes men think it is not enough of a "manly job" to teach our children to begin with. Idiots.

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Response to Jennicut (Reply #23)

Fri Dec 21, 2012, 11:25 AM

59. Not to mention

A WOMAN took two bullets and still managed to stop the Ft. Hood shooter. All those dead men, and a woman took him down. Bravery is a human trait, not a gender one.

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Response to Aerows (Reply #59)

Fri Dec 21, 2012, 12:38 PM

62. Exactly. Men and women have stepped in the line of fire to stop mass shooters.

Bravery is so not about gender.

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Response to kpete (Original post)

Fri Dec 21, 2012, 09:27 AM

24. "with some men on the scene who knew what to do..."

How freakin' stupid can this person be?

Why on earth would the person "who knew what to do" need to be a man?

I work in a school and in ANY emergency situation I would much rather have a woman who was trained to respond than a man who wasn't.

I know women police, firefighters and paramedics who would be far more effective in an emergency than me, or the math teacher in the next room.

That's just common sense.

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Response to kpete (Original post)

Fri Dec 21, 2012, 09:27 AM

25. "A male facility for strategic thinking"... incredible!

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Response to reformist2 (Reply #25)

Fri Dec 21, 2012, 10:26 AM

38. Yes, the wimmins, they just get hysterical.

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Response to kpete (Original post)

Fri Dec 21, 2012, 09:30 AM

27. Men on the scene would have been teachers

and then the writer wouldn't be happy with men having chosen such a womanly profession as teaching? Nutty.

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Response to kpete (Original post)

Fri Dec 21, 2012, 09:30 AM

28. This screed borders on thr delusional.

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Response to kpete (Original post)

Fri Dec 21, 2012, 09:32 AM

29. Strict enforcement of "gender roles" leads to a peaceful society!

Just look at Afghanistan!

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Response to kpete (Original post)

Fri Dec 21, 2012, 09:33 AM

30. I suggest the writer buy another AR-15 to make up for a culture that 'denigrates the

masculine traits - including size'.

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Response to kpete (Original post)

Fri Dec 21, 2012, 09:59 AM

32. Stupidity apparently has no limit.

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Response to kpete (Original post)

Fri Dec 21, 2012, 10:00 AM

33. Who the fuck ARE these monsters?

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Response to kpete (Original post)

Fri Dec 21, 2012, 10:22 AM

36. Right

I would absolutely LOVE to hear the language that would ensue if the author told some of the macho chefs I worked with that near an oven wasn't a "manly" place to be.



And of course, fathers will NEVER hold or nurture infants, so why let boys play with dolls? I remember a long time ago on Phil Donahue's show, a father said he only wanted his son to play with action figures.

So if he grows up and doesn't have a baby that looks like Skeletor or one of the Power Rangers, I guess too bad for his infant, huh?

This gender shit is ridiculous....it's almost 2013, time to step away from the '50s illusion.


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Response to kpete (Original post)

Fri Dec 21, 2012, 10:25 AM

37. So much sexism crammed into a single paragraph...

but the kicker, the final insult to the brave adult women who died: "But with some men on the scene who KNEW WHAT TO DO" (because women automatically just don't know what to do) "some of those lives might have been saved." What a disgusting POS this author is.

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Response to TwilightGardener (Reply #37)

Fri Dec 21, 2012, 10:49 AM

46. Well said!!! The author is a stupid disgusting POS who needs to get a life. I'm so fed up with

this type of sexism. It's stupid and naive, this Neanderthal me Tarzan you Jane crap.

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Response to kpete (Original post)

Fri Dec 21, 2012, 10:27 AM

39. this makes me furious.

if that school had more male teachers they would have done the same thing....died trying to protect the children in their charge.

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Response to kpete (Original post)

Fri Dec 21, 2012, 10:29 AM

41. I wonder if I'm the only one who doesn't like the husband in the kitchen

when there's serious baking to be done.....

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Response to fadedrose (Reply #41)

Fri Dec 21, 2012, 10:53 AM

48. I guess so, LOL. I would LOVE it if my husband cooked and baked.

He can take over for me, anytime.

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Response to TwilightGardener (Reply #48)

Fri Dec 21, 2012, 12:00 PM

61. Cook & bake is okay, but "take over" doesn't work for me...

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Response to kpete (Original post)

Fri Dec 21, 2012, 10:40 AM

43. There were TWO men in the school. A fourth grade teacher -- he fled with others.

I don't blame him, and he did help others to run. But the men didn't do any more than the women did in this terrible situation.

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2012/12/20/ted-varga-sandy-hook_n_2338999.html

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Response to kpete (Original post)

Fri Dec 21, 2012, 10:45 AM

44. This fool really really needs to get a life. There are a hell of a lot of very male chefs in

life and a hell of a lot of male cooks at home that are extremely masculine. It reminds me of the stupidity of saying/thinking all male gays are limp wristed girly boys. What the F are these people fed in life that makes them so sheltered and naive. The STUPID is soooo great.

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Response to kpete (Original post)

Fri Dec 21, 2012, 10:48 AM

45. She sounds like one of those women who thinks she needs a big strong man to protect her.

The kind who wouldn't even look twice at a shorty like me (despite the fact that I'm secretly a tough little badass).

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Response to kpete (Original post)

Fri Dec 21, 2012, 10:51 AM

47. the kid wanted to be a Marine

he and his brothers were totally into guns and the military.

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Response to kpete (Original post)

Fri Dec 21, 2012, 10:54 AM

49. Even the premise is wrong - this is the most aggressive, militaristic culture in the developed world

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Response to kpete (Original post)

Fri Dec 21, 2012, 11:01 AM

50. Yeah...and nobody even watches football or men's sports anymore!

And all those action hero movies we used to see - now all Hollywood turns out are chick flicks! The whole culture has turned into one big Glee episode!

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Response to kpete (Original post)

Fri Dec 21, 2012, 11:07 AM

52. Ooops!

I trained my *sons* to be nice.

Sorry about ruining society like that.

(And yes, one of them had an Easy Bake Oven. He still likes to cook.)

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Response to kpete (Original post)

Fri Dec 21, 2012, 11:08 AM

53. The Publication has Gone 'Round The Bend

Coo coo for Cocoa Puffs. Crackers.

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Response to kpete (Original post)

Fri Dec 21, 2012, 11:10 AM

54. .

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Response to kpete (Original post)

Fri Dec 21, 2012, 11:12 AM

55. I do the cooking in my family...

...for two reasons:

1) My wife has foot problems and can't stand
2) I'm a better cook.

Simple.

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Response to kpete (Original post)

Fri Dec 21, 2012, 11:17 AM

57. Holy crap...

WTF?

My wife considers me to be manly, but I'm far from aggressive unless motivated.

I played with easy bake ovens. But this did not train me to be nice. It trained me how to be patient while some crummy brownies took forever (in my child mind) to bake.

I played with the oven because I wanted to. I don't think a child should be urged to play with one toy or another. Let them play with what they want. They will naturally gravitate to a toy that interests them and that alone will spark their imagination, and creativity. That is what should be urged.

But in no way does a child playing with one toy or another create a "weaker member" of society. It creates creative and intelligent children.

We are a little "old school" in our house as far as what is generally considered gender role tasks. With the exception of cooking. But this is by our choice, this is my wife and I making the decision on how we manage our house it has nothing to do with what is manly or womanly or not. Those labels are meaningless in today's day and age.

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Response to kpete (Original post)

Fri Dec 21, 2012, 11:23 AM

58. My word.

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Response to kpete (Original post)

Fri Dec 21, 2012, 11:29 AM

60. This is so stupid I can't even get worked up about it. n/t

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Response to kpete (Original post)

Fri Dec 21, 2012, 01:38 PM

65. National Review wants boys to chase wild animals down and eat them alive

Because that will totally work out for everyone in the long run.

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Response to kpete (Original post)

Fri Dec 21, 2012, 01:43 PM

66. Women less aggressive? Wow, she's never

met the ones I work with, they'd slit your throat in a heartbeat, they'd just do it in a sneakier way...as a woman this is sad to say

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Response to kpete (Original post)

Fri Dec 21, 2012, 02:24 PM

67. They'll get my Easy-Bake Oven when they pry it from my warm, batter-smeared hands...

This crossing-up of guns and hyper-masculinity is just more insanity. There is *nothing* inherently good, or healthily masculine about weapons. Nothing.

The idea that a man reacts better in a violent crisis is garbage. No less than the selected pResident Bush was told that our country was under attack, and he sat on his can for 7+ minutes.

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