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kpete

(71,867 posts)
Fri Dec 21, 2012, 09:40 AM Dec 2012

Nat'l Review: "Boys using Easy-Bake ovens" were the problem at Sandy Hook.

I am, however, blaming our culture that denies, dismisses, and denigrates the masculine traits—including size, strength, male aggression and a male facility for strategic thinking–that until recently have been viewed as essential for building a society and protecting its weaker members. We now have Hanna Rosin at Slate urging parents to buy their little boys Easy Bake ovens so they’ll be more like little girls. Women are less aggressive by instinct, and they are typically trained to be nice. I praised and continue to praise the courage of the Sandy Hook principal, Dawn Hochsburg, and the teachers who gave up their lives along with her, but with some men on the scene who knew what to do, some of those lives might have been saved.


http://www.nationalreview.com/corner/336275/newtown-my-critics-charlotte-allen#
http://www.dailykos.com/story/2012/12/21/1172679/-National-Review-Boys-using-Easy-Bake-ovens-were-the-problem-at-Sandy-Hook
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Nat'l Review: "Boys using Easy-Bake ovens" were the problem at Sandy Hook. (Original Post) kpete Dec 2012 OP
How is baking "feminine"? Or why is grilling "masculine"? reformist2 Dec 2012 #1
I'm not sure where that mentality originates kentauros Dec 2012 #13
told niece the other day, she was getting her tush in the kitchen and learning how to make tortillas seabeyond Dec 2012 #17
I will admit that I've tried to make torillas kentauros Dec 2012 #21
following instructions, working on math. there are wonderful teachings in cooking. seabeyond Dec 2012 #26
When I was married, my wife and I learned very quickly kentauros Dec 2012 #31
gotta have fun.... seabeyond Dec 2012 #34
Wow! kentauros Dec 2012 #56
i am sooo glad you linked to that thread. is this your equip? wowsers. hubby would love all that seabeyond Dec 2012 #63
Have they ever seen the show Top Chef? Tommy_Carcetti Dec 2012 #40
Simple: "meat" is manly. Its akin to killing an animal and cooking it in the field. apnu Dec 2012 #51
Thanks. That does seem to be the root of it. You would think we could move on already, tho. :) reformist2 Dec 2012 #64
i have always been agressive. never physically violent. and always aggressive. uh oh. i am a woman. seabeyond Dec 2012 #2
Lots of crazy out there madokie Dec 2012 #3
I guess this misguided nonsense needs to be seen. But... Buzz Clik Dec 2012 #4
Guns don't kill people, Easy Bake Ovens kill people. Cobalt Violet Dec 2012 #5
We need a journalist to trap a Tea-Bagger on this. reformist2 Dec 2012 #9
I want Hanna Rosin to keep on writing! I love her JanMichael Dec 2012 #6
Where do I start? TheOther95Percent Dec 2012 #7
Oh, for Pete's sake Burma Jones Dec 2012 #8
WTF? smirkymonkey Dec 2012 #10
So tired of the machismo in this culture. Dash87 Dec 2012 #11
yes. they are holding on tight. they do not get, that they lose nothing and gain everything seabeyond Dec 2012 #18
From Seinfeld: byeya Dec 2012 #12
Does he not see that the whole tragedy Shankapotomus Dec 2012 #14
I noticed that. Apparently it's the women's fault for not defending themselves better. yardwork Dec 2012 #35
She's trying to prove her "only men can think" point all on her own muriel_volestrangler Dec 2012 #15
Google "top chefs in the world" Downwinder Dec 2012 #16
Or for that matter, Iron Chef kentauros Dec 2012 #22
No kidding! flobee1 Dec 2012 #42
Ah, the Buckley TeaRag chimes in. HughBeaumont Dec 2012 #19
Girls/women not aggressive? I guess she doesn't get out much NewJeffCT Dec 2012 #20
"Some men on the scene who knew what to do". Jennicut Dec 2012 #23
Not to mention Aerows Dec 2012 #59
Exactly. Men and women have stepped in the line of fire to stop mass shooters. Jennicut Dec 2012 #62
"with some men on the scene who knew what to do..." Jokerman Dec 2012 #24
"A male facility for strategic thinking"... incredible! reformist2 Dec 2012 #25
Yes, the wimmins, they just get hysterical. TwilightGardener Dec 2012 #38
Men on the scene would have been teachers My Good Babushka Dec 2012 #27
This screed borders on thr delusional. Odin2005 Dec 2012 #28
Strict enforcement of "gender roles" leads to a peaceful society! Scootaloo Dec 2012 #29
I suggest the writer buy another AR-15 to make up for a culture that 'denigrates the sinkingfeeling Dec 2012 #30
Stupidity apparently has no limit. CanonRay Dec 2012 #32
Who the fuck ARE these monsters? 6000eliot Dec 2012 #33
Right Tsiyu Dec 2012 #36
So much sexism crammed into a single paragraph... TwilightGardener Dec 2012 #37
Well said!!! The author is a stupid disgusting POS who needs to get a life. I'm so fed up with RKP5637 Dec 2012 #46
this makes me furious. DonRedwood Dec 2012 #39
I wonder if I'm the only one who doesn't like the husband in the kitchen fadedrose Dec 2012 #41
I guess so, LOL. I would LOVE it if my husband cooked and baked. TwilightGardener Dec 2012 #48
Cook & bake is okay, but "take over" doesn't work for me... fadedrose Dec 2012 #61
There were TWO men in the school. A fourth grade teacher -- he fled with others. mainer Dec 2012 #43
This fool really really needs to get a life. There are a hell of a lot of very male chefs in RKP5637 Dec 2012 #44
She sounds like one of those women who thinks she needs a big strong man to protect her. dawg Dec 2012 #45
the kid wanted to be a Marine Enrique Dec 2012 #47
Even the premise is wrong - this is the most aggressive, militaristic culture in the developed world reformist2 Dec 2012 #49
Yeah...and nobody even watches football or men's sports anymore! bhikkhu Dec 2012 #50
Ooops! dawg Dec 2012 #52
The Publication has Gone 'Round The Bend Dirty Socialist Dec 2012 #53
. LWolf Dec 2012 #54
I do the cooking in my family... KansDem Dec 2012 #55
Holy crap... Glassunion Dec 2012 #57
My word. Aerows Dec 2012 #58
This is so stupid I can't even get worked up about it. n/t MadrasT Dec 2012 #60
National Review wants boys to chase wild animals down and eat them alive ck4829 Dec 2012 #65
Women less aggressive? Wow, she's never arthritisR_US Dec 2012 #66
They'll get my Easy-Bake Oven when they pry it from my warm, batter-smeared hands... VOX Dec 2012 #67

reformist2

(9,841 posts)
1. How is baking "feminine"? Or why is grilling "masculine"?
Fri Dec 21, 2012, 09:44 AM
Dec 2012

My God, it's food - we all eat food. I never will understand this mentality.

kentauros

(29,414 posts)
13. I'm not sure where that mentality originates
Fri Dec 21, 2012, 10:01 AM
Dec 2012

but this writer has been 100% conditioned by television advertising. That is, men grill, women do everything else to do with cooking. Nevermind the success of world-class chefs that are men, though I'd guess they wouldn't respect the women that are also world-class chefs.

 

seabeyond

(110,159 posts)
17. told niece the other day, she was getting her tush in the kitchen and learning how to make tortillas
Fri Dec 21, 2012, 10:14 AM
Dec 2012

tomorrow.

she rolled her eyes on the not cooking.

i told her, my day, women took pride in not cooking and did it more of a statement cause was expected of us. today, our guys are cooking as much as our gals. she had no excuse not to learn the basics. lol

kentauros

(29,414 posts)
21. I will admit that I've tried to make torillas
Fri Dec 21, 2012, 10:22 AM
Dec 2012

and I suck at it! lol But, I do make a good guacamole

Now, I don't know that anyone here would want their boys in Boys Scouts these days, but I do attribute some of my cooking skills to being a scout. That, and my parents letting me "help" with things like making cookies, fudge, bread, and so on. I think they wanted us to be able to function on our own later in life. Not to mention that it was fun for us kids

 

seabeyond

(110,159 posts)
26. following instructions, working on math. there are wonderful teachings in cooking.
Fri Dec 21, 2012, 10:29 AM
Dec 2012

and yes, a connection and play in helping. had 5 yr old niece in kitchen the other day making christmas sugar cookies. was a blast singing the christmas songs she had learned.

i have never done the tortillas. nephews GF is coming over for dinner, to teach me how. i love it. she is 19. will be a blast.

hubby will be doing the rest. and yes, he makes the killer guacamole.

it is funny cause i did not learn to cook, refused. but my two brothers and husband love to cook. our holiday dinners have all four of us in the kitchen. it makes it really easy to put together.

especially once i have started on the wine. lol.

kentauros

(29,414 posts)
31. When I was married, my wife and I learned very quickly
Fri Dec 21, 2012, 10:35 AM
Dec 2012

that we couldn't work together in the kitchen. We both wanted to have full run of the counters and equipment! She's a much better cook than I, while I'm the baker in the family.

When my girlfriend visits this coming Spring, we may work together some, though I think most of it will be instruction. She's not much of a cook, either, so I hope I can show her some basics. Plus she wants to be there when I make truffles

It sounds like y'all have a lot of fun and that's important

kentauros

(29,414 posts)
56. Wow!
Fri Dec 21, 2012, 12:14 PM
Dec 2012

I would almost hate to eat that. Almost...

That's also a bit beyond the aesthetics of my creations, but I emphasize taste over looks anyway:

Flourless Chocolate Cake - Step-by-Step (with photos) (dial-up warning)

 

seabeyond

(110,159 posts)
63. i am sooo glad you linked to that thread. is this your equip? wowsers. hubby would love all that
Fri Dec 21, 2012, 01:53 PM
Dec 2012

stuff, even though i do the baking and he refuses.

but... no way i am going to try that, though it looks very interesting with no flour. i almost want to try, just to see what it tastes like.

that is fun.

Tommy_Carcetti

(43,053 posts)
40. Have they ever seen the show Top Chef?
Fri Dec 21, 2012, 11:29 AM
Dec 2012

At least half the contestants on it are men.

Good, manly men that would have made the NR author proud.

apnu

(8,717 posts)
51. Simple: "meat" is manly. Its akin to killing an animal and cooking it in the field.
Fri Dec 21, 2012, 12:01 PM
Dec 2012

Its stupid, I know. But cooking outside is masculine because the domain of the home and hearth is considered feminine and that takes place inside the domicile. Outside cooking is opposite, therefore it must be masculine. That's a human trope that's lasted for thousands of years spanning most cultures around the globe.

Like I said, it is stupid, I have a lot of male friends who like to cook inside. My father-in-law is a great cook (his zuppa de peche is top notch), one of my best friends is a trained chef, and I'm very friendly with a sushi chef, also male. None of their masculinity is in jeopardy. My 6 year-old son is a typical, rambunctious boy who loves to rough house. He also loves to bake cookies and other deserts, not because he's enjoying being "girly," but because he enjoys doing something with us and the attention he gets while cooking with his parents.

But, you asked a question, and I feel this is the answer.

 

seabeyond

(110,159 posts)
2. i have always been agressive. never physically violent. and always aggressive. uh oh. i am a woman.
Fri Dec 21, 2012, 09:46 AM
Dec 2012

i know plenty of women that are aggressive. i know plenty of men that are not. my husband is not aggressive. uh oh, he is a man.

 

Buzz Clik

(38,437 posts)
4. I guess this misguided nonsense needs to be seen. But...
Fri Dec 21, 2012, 09:47 AM
Dec 2012

Geez. This sort of ignorance gets a paycheck?

reformist2

(9,841 posts)
9. We need a journalist to trap a Tea-Bagger on this.
Fri Dec 21, 2012, 09:55 AM
Dec 2012

I'm thinking this is a job for that Soledad O'Brien...

JanMichael

(24,841 posts)
6. I want Hanna Rosin to keep on writing! I love her
Fri Dec 21, 2012, 09:50 AM
Dec 2012

Everytime she sits down at the keyboard, that publication loses a reader.

My friend who posts stuff all the time from that site....just posted a photo last week of his 4 year old son...taking his brownies out of an Easy Bake oven. And no, I am not sending this to him He'll see it.

TheOther95Percent

(1,035 posts)
7. Where do I start?
Fri Dec 21, 2012, 09:50 AM
Dec 2012

I can see where this is going. The National Review is going to come out in support of the US invading Canada on account of the Sandy Hook invasion. These idiots are batshit crazy.

Burma Jones

(11,760 posts)
8. Oh, for Pete's sake
Fri Dec 21, 2012, 09:53 AM
Dec 2012

A guy has a history of mental health issues. His Mom kept guns in the house, one of them particularly useful for human slaughter. The guy believes Mom is going to have him institutionalized, the guy lashes out in about as gut wrenching a way as can be.

The lesson is not that men have been emasculated or that men aren't emasculated enough...it's that you need to keep weapons away from mentally ill people.

And maybe take some of those cops busting pot heads and post them at schools.

Oh well, people that make a living as gaseous windbags are certainly going to make hay with this horror - I say Fuck 'em

Dash87

(3,220 posts)
11. So tired of the machismo in this culture.
Fri Dec 21, 2012, 09:57 AM
Dec 2012

It's dying, but some are desperately clinging to it.

These are the same that think that boys beating on the physically weaker is justified because the targets need to "man up."

Some of them even go as far as to justify rape, because that's just "boys being boys," and real men "take what they want."

The writer is a whiny child if she believes this. I think they have contests to see who can be the most obnoxious, and the winner gets published.

 

seabeyond

(110,159 posts)
18. yes. they are holding on tight. they do not get, that they lose nothing and gain everything
Fri Dec 21, 2012, 10:15 AM
Dec 2012

letting go of these conditionings.

they are 'fraid.

 

byeya

(2,842 posts)
12. From Seinfeld:
Fri Dec 21, 2012, 09:57 AM
Dec 2012

Mr. S: It's those damn culottes you made him wear when he was five!

Mrs. S: They weren't culottes, they were shorts.

Mr. S: They were culottes! You bought them in the girl's department.

Mrs. S: By mistake! By mistake, Jerry! I'm sorry!

Shankapotomus

(4,840 posts)
14. Does he not see that the whole tragedy
Fri Dec 21, 2012, 10:02 AM
Dec 2012

was perpetrated by an aggressive male?

If aggressive males were not doing most of the shooting in the first place, there would be no need for other aggressive males to come to the rescue. Dumb.

Does he think we would not notice that?

yardwork

(61,331 posts)
35. I noticed that. Apparently it's the women's fault for not defending themselves better.
Fri Dec 21, 2012, 11:09 AM
Dec 2012

It's not the man's fault for murdering all those people. It's the women's fault for not being violent enough.

muriel_volestrangler

(101,082 posts)
15. She's trying to prove her "only men can think" point all on her own
Fri Dec 21, 2012, 10:03 AM
Dec 2012

She's stuck in the "I'm dumb, so anyone like me must be dumb too" trap.

flobee1

(870 posts)
42. No kidding!
Fri Dec 21, 2012, 11:31 AM
Dec 2012

I want to see him call Gordon Ramsey "girley" to his face!
or tell Bourdain that cooking will turn him into a woman!

Has he ever been part of a restaurant kitchen crew? Bourdain hits the nail on the head when he describes it as being the captain of a pirate ship.

I always enjoyed this passage out of Kitchen Confidential-
“Whachoo want, white boy? Burn cream? A Band-Aid?
Then he raised his own enormous palms to me, brought them up real close so I could see them properly; the hideous constellation of water-filled blisters, angry red welts from grill marks, the old scars, the raw flesh where steam or hot fat had made the skin simply roll off. They looked like the claws of some monstrous science-fiction crustacean, knobby and calloused under wounds old and new. I watched, transfixed, as Tyrone - his eyes never leaving mine - reached slowly under the broiler and, with one naked hand, picked up a glowing-hot sizzle-platter, moved it over to the cutting board, and set it down in front of me.
He never flinched.”

There is nothing "feminine" about cooking a damn good meal.

NewJeffCT

(56,827 posts)
20. Girls/women not aggressive? I guess she doesn't get out much
Fri Dec 21, 2012, 10:22 AM
Dec 2012

and, perhaps the reason why there are so few male teachers is because men are often discouraged from teaching younger children - there will be people who look at a guy as strange/weird if they're a teacher in an elementary school. ("Why does that man want to be around young children - is he some freak like Michael Jackson?&quot

Heck, I can't count the number of times I was the only male in PTA/PTO meetings over the last 4 years, even though the women in the room were doctors, lawyers, actuaries, engineers, etc.

While there are certainly more women in leadership roles in schools than there were 30-40 years ago, I'm guessing the percentage of elementary school teachers hasn't changed radically since I was attending elementary schools - I don't rememember many male teachers in elementary schools when I grew up. There were a few in middle school, and a pretty good amount in high school, though. (And, now that I think about it, my elementary school principal was a woman.)

Jennicut

(25,415 posts)
23. "Some men on the scene who knew what to do".
Fri Dec 21, 2012, 10:26 AM
Dec 2012

Disgusting words. And they forget the male business teacher that lost his life at Columbine trying to stop Eric Harris and Dylan Klebold. Their arguments are utter crap. Plus, I work in elementary schools. There are not a lot of men that want to teach little children. There are some but it is mostly women that become elementary school teachers, Principals, school secretaries. Maybe because society makes men think it is not enough of a "manly job" to teach our children to begin with. Idiots.

 

Aerows

(39,961 posts)
59. Not to mention
Fri Dec 21, 2012, 12:25 PM
Dec 2012

A WOMAN took two bullets and still managed to stop the Ft. Hood shooter. All those dead men, and a woman took him down. Bravery is a human trait, not a gender one.

Jennicut

(25,415 posts)
62. Exactly. Men and women have stepped in the line of fire to stop mass shooters.
Fri Dec 21, 2012, 01:38 PM
Dec 2012

Bravery is so not about gender.

Jokerman

(3,517 posts)
24. "with some men on the scene who knew what to do..."
Fri Dec 21, 2012, 10:27 AM
Dec 2012

How freakin' stupid can this person be?

Why on earth would the person "who knew what to do" need to be a man?

I work in a school and in ANY emergency situation I would much rather have a woman who was trained to respond than a man who wasn't.

I know women police, firefighters and paramedics who would be far more effective in an emergency than me, or the math teacher in the next room.

That's just common sense.

My Good Babushka

(2,710 posts)
27. Men on the scene would have been teachers
Fri Dec 21, 2012, 10:30 AM
Dec 2012

and then the writer wouldn't be happy with men having chosen such a womanly profession as teaching? Nutty.

sinkingfeeling

(51,201 posts)
30. I suggest the writer buy another AR-15 to make up for a culture that 'denigrates the
Fri Dec 21, 2012, 10:33 AM
Dec 2012

masculine traits - including size'.

Tsiyu

(18,186 posts)
36. Right
Fri Dec 21, 2012, 11:22 AM
Dec 2012

I would absolutely LOVE to hear the language that would ensue if the author told some of the macho chefs I worked with that near an oven wasn't a "manly" place to be.



And of course, fathers will NEVER hold or nurture infants, so why let boys play with dolls? I remember a long time ago on Phil Donahue's show, a father said he only wanted his son to play with action figures.

So if he grows up and doesn't have a baby that looks like Skeletor or one of the Power Rangers, I guess too bad for his infant, huh?

This gender shit is ridiculous....it's almost 2013, time to step away from the '50s illusion.


TwilightGardener

(46,416 posts)
37. So much sexism crammed into a single paragraph...
Fri Dec 21, 2012, 11:25 AM
Dec 2012

but the kicker, the final insult to the brave adult women who died: "But with some men on the scene who KNEW WHAT TO DO" (because women automatically just don't know what to do) "some of those lives might have been saved." What a disgusting POS this author is.

RKP5637

(67,008 posts)
46. Well said!!! The author is a stupid disgusting POS who needs to get a life. I'm so fed up with
Fri Dec 21, 2012, 11:49 AM
Dec 2012

this type of sexism. It's stupid and naive, this Neanderthal me Tarzan you Jane crap.

DonRedwood

(4,359 posts)
39. this makes me furious.
Fri Dec 21, 2012, 11:27 AM
Dec 2012

if that school had more male teachers they would have done the same thing....died trying to protect the children in their charge.

fadedrose

(10,044 posts)
41. I wonder if I'm the only one who doesn't like the husband in the kitchen
Fri Dec 21, 2012, 11:29 AM
Dec 2012

when there's serious baking to be done.....

mainer

(12,010 posts)
43. There were TWO men in the school. A fourth grade teacher -- he fled with others.
Fri Dec 21, 2012, 11:40 AM
Dec 2012

I don't blame him, and he did help others to run. But the men didn't do any more than the women did in this terrible situation.

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2012/12/20/ted-varga-sandy-hook_n_2338999.html

RKP5637

(67,008 posts)
44. This fool really really needs to get a life. There are a hell of a lot of very male chefs in
Fri Dec 21, 2012, 11:45 AM
Dec 2012

life and a hell of a lot of male cooks at home that are extremely masculine. It reminds me of the stupidity of saying/thinking all male gays are limp wristed girly boys. What the F are these people fed in life that makes them so sheltered and naive. The STUPID is soooo great.

dawg

(10,595 posts)
45. She sounds like one of those women who thinks she needs a big strong man to protect her.
Fri Dec 21, 2012, 11:48 AM
Dec 2012

The kind who wouldn't even look twice at a shorty like me (despite the fact that I'm secretly a tough little badass).

bhikkhu

(10,707 posts)
50. Yeah...and nobody even watches football or men's sports anymore!
Fri Dec 21, 2012, 12:01 PM
Dec 2012

And all those action hero movies we used to see - now all Hollywood turns out are chick flicks! The whole culture has turned into one big Glee episode!

dawg

(10,595 posts)
52. Ooops!
Fri Dec 21, 2012, 12:07 PM
Dec 2012

I trained my *sons* to be nice.

Sorry about ruining society like that.

(And yes, one of them had an Easy Bake Oven. He still likes to cook.)

KansDem

(28,498 posts)
55. I do the cooking in my family...
Fri Dec 21, 2012, 12:12 PM
Dec 2012

...for two reasons:

1) My wife has foot problems and can't stand
2) I'm a better cook.

Simple.

Glassunion

(10,201 posts)
57. Holy crap...
Fri Dec 21, 2012, 12:17 PM
Dec 2012

WTF?

My wife considers me to be manly, but I'm far from aggressive unless motivated.

I played with easy bake ovens. But this did not train me to be nice. It trained me how to be patient while some crummy brownies took forever (in my child mind) to bake.

I played with the oven because I wanted to. I don't think a child should be urged to play with one toy or another. Let them play with what they want. They will naturally gravitate to a toy that interests them and that alone will spark their imagination, and creativity. That is what should be urged.

But in no way does a child playing with one toy or another create a "weaker member" of society. It creates creative and intelligent children.

We are a little "old school" in our house as far as what is generally considered gender role tasks. With the exception of cooking. But this is by our choice, this is my wife and I making the decision on how we manage our house it has nothing to do with what is manly or womanly or not. Those labels are meaningless in today's day and age.

ck4829

(34,905 posts)
65. National Review wants boys to chase wild animals down and eat them alive
Fri Dec 21, 2012, 02:38 PM
Dec 2012

Because that will totally work out for everyone in the long run.

arthritisR_US

(7,251 posts)
66. Women less aggressive? Wow, she's never
Fri Dec 21, 2012, 02:43 PM
Dec 2012

met the ones I work with, they'd slit your throat in a heartbeat, they'd just do it in a sneakier way...as a woman this is sad to say

VOX

(22,976 posts)
67. They'll get my Easy-Bake Oven when they pry it from my warm, batter-smeared hands...
Fri Dec 21, 2012, 03:24 PM
Dec 2012

This crossing-up of guns and hyper-masculinity is just more insanity. There is *nothing* inherently good, or healthily masculine about weapons. Nothing.

The idea that a man reacts better in a violent crisis is garbage. No less than the selected pResident Bush was told that our country was under attack, and he sat on his can for 7+ minutes.

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