HomeLatest ThreadsGreatest ThreadsForums & GroupsMy SubscriptionsMy Posts
DU Home » Latest Threads » Forums & Groups » Main » General Discussion (Forum) » Scandal Alert: Congress I...
Introducing Discussionist: A new forum by the creators of DU

Fri Dec 21, 2012, 05:22 AM

Scandal Alert: Congress Is Quietly Abandoning the 5th Amendment

http://www.theatlantic.com/politics/archive/2012/12/scandal-alert-congress-is-quietly-abandoning-the-5th-amendment/266498/



What everyone must understand is that American politics doesn't work the way you'd think it would. Most people presume that government officials would never willfully withhold penicillin from men with syphilis just to see what would happen if the disease went untreated. It seems unlikely that officers would coerce enlisted men into exposing themselves to debilitating nerve gas. Few expected that President Obama would preside over the persecution of an NSA whistle-blower, or presume the guilt of all military-aged males killed by U.S. drone strikes. But it all happened.

Really thinking about all that may make it easier to believe what I'm about to tell you.

It may seem like imprisoning an American citizen without charges or trial transgresses against the United States Constitution and basic norms of Western justice dating back to the Magna Carta.

It may seem like reiterating the right to due process contained in the 5th Amendment would be uncontroversial.

19 replies, 2688 views

Reply to this thread

Back to top Alert abuse

Always highlight: 10 newest replies | Replies posted after I mark a forum
Replies to this discussion thread
Arrow 19 replies Author Time Post
Reply Scandal Alert: Congress Is Quietly Abandoning the 5th Amendment (Original post)
xchrom Dec 2012 OP
dixiegrrrrl Dec 2012 #1
xchrom Dec 2012 #2
Mojorabbit Dec 2012 #19
hobbit709 Dec 2012 #3
NoMoreWarNow Dec 2012 #4
ashling Dec 2012 #10
indepat Dec 2012 #16
NoMoreWarNow Dec 2012 #5
ag_dude Dec 2012 #6
BlueinOhio Dec 2012 #7
another_liberal Dec 2012 #8
RomneyLies Dec 2012 #9
Jim Lane Dec 2012 #17
marmar Dec 2012 #11
xchrom Dec 2012 #12
ProfessionalLeftist Dec 2012 #13
snot Dec 2012 #14
bullwinkle428 Dec 2012 #15
woo me with science Dec 2012 #18

Response to xchrom (Original post)

Fri Dec 21, 2012, 06:44 AM

1. Good morning, xchrom....thank you for this article.

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to dixiegrrrrl (Reply #1)

Fri Dec 21, 2012, 06:57 AM

2. happy solstice!

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to xchrom (Reply #2)

Fri Dec 21, 2012, 10:37 PM

19. A Merry Yule to you and thank you for both the song and the article. nt

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to xchrom (Original post)

Fri Dec 21, 2012, 06:59 AM

3. The Constitution pretty much went away after the Enabling Act of 2001.

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to hobbit709 (Reply #3)

Fri Dec 21, 2012, 07:40 AM

4. we've been on a steady decline for a long time but 9/11 certainly was the nail in the coffin

 

assassination of JFK was the other nail.

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to hobbit709 (Reply #3)

Fri Dec 21, 2012, 08:44 AM

10. The decline started a little earlier

as early as 1789

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to hobbit709 (Reply #3)

Fri Dec 21, 2012, 12:44 PM

16. Except for the sacrosanct and exalted Second Amendment

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to xchrom (Original post)

Fri Dec 21, 2012, 07:43 AM

5. this is a madness that seems impervious to democratic influence

 

the fucking military-intelliegence,-industrial complex is fucking out of control.

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to xchrom (Original post)

Fri Dec 21, 2012, 08:08 AM

6. I understand constitutional rights...

...but sometimes we have to use common sense and do what is right.

Wait, got my discussions mixed up. Sorry.

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to xchrom (Original post)

Fri Dec 21, 2012, 08:17 AM

7. It will always be someone else

The terrorist is ambiguous term and can be made to mean anything.

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to xchrom (Original post)

Fri Dec 21, 2012, 08:34 AM

8. It's the "War on Terror!"

Although our genuine "Terrorist Enemies" now only number a few hundred (at most) some security geeks still see this as a situation equivalent with the darkest days of the American Civil War. One hundred and fifty years ago President Lincoln suspended Americans' civil liberties in order to win a desperate struggle to save our national union. The Dick Cheney administration claimed that precedent as justification for every kind of extra-Constitutional outrage imaginable. Sadly, we are still operating under the assumption our country will be overrun with "Towel-headed murders" if we allow the rule of law to be reimposed. Nonsense, pure nonsense!

It is long past time to restore our Civil Rights and Constitutional protections to, at least, their pre-9/11 standing.

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to xchrom (Original post)

Fri Dec 21, 2012, 08:38 AM

9. Hyperbolic claptrap. nt

 

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to RomneyLies (Reply #9)

Fri Dec 21, 2012, 03:46 PM

17. Would you please elaborate?

The OP and the linked article rest on two simple propositions: that Congress is moving toward authorizing indefinite detention without trial, and that such a law would violate the Fifth Amendment.

The support for the first proposition is in a New York Times story that's quoted in the linked article as follows:

Lawmakers charged with merging the House and Senate versions of the National Defense Authorization Act decided on Tuesday to drop a provision that would have explicitly barred the military from holding American citizens and permanent residents in indefinite detention without trial as terrorism suspects, according to Congressional staff members familiar with the negotiations.


The second proposition isn't defended in the linked article. The author takes it as a given that such a law would violate the Due Process Clause of the Fifth Amendment.

Both propositions seem to me to be correct. Do you dispute the first, the second, or both, and what's the basis of your disagreement?

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to xchrom (Original post)

Fri Dec 21, 2012, 08:46 AM

11. Fascism is a sneaky little f**ker, isn't it?

nt

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to marmar (Reply #11)

Fri Dec 21, 2012, 09:18 AM

12. +1

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to xchrom (Original post)

Fri Dec 21, 2012, 09:21 AM

13. recommend. n/t

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to xchrom (Original post)

Fri Dec 21, 2012, 11:43 AM

14. K&R'd!

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to xchrom (Original post)

Fri Dec 21, 2012, 11:46 AM

15. "Fuck the 5th as long as I get to keep the 2nd!!1!"

YEE-HAW!!!

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to xchrom (Original post)

Fri Dec 21, 2012, 05:15 PM

18. kick

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink

Reply to this thread