Fri Dec 21, 2012, 05:22 AM
xchrom (108,903 posts)
Scandal Alert: Congress Is Quietly Abandoning the 5th Amendment
What everyone must understand is that American politics doesn't work the way you'd think it would. Most people presume that government officials would never willfully withhold penicillin from men with syphilis just to see what would happen if the disease went untreated. It seems unlikely that officers would coerce enlisted men into exposing themselves to debilitating nerve gas. Few expected that President Obama would preside over the persecution of an NSA whistle-blower, or presume the guilt of all military-aged males killed by U.S. drone strikes. But it all happened.
Really thinking about all that may make it easier to believe what I'm about to tell you.
It may seem like imprisoning an American citizen without charges or trial transgresses against the United States Constitution and basic norms of Western justice dating back to the Magna Carta.
It may seem like reiterating the right to due process contained in the 5th Amendment would be uncontroversial.
19 replies, 2852 views
Scandal Alert: Congress Is Quietly Abandoning the 5th Amendment (Original post)
|Jim Lane||Dec 2012||#17|
|woo me with science||Dec 2012||#18|
Response to xchrom (Original post)
Fri Dec 21, 2012, 07:43 AM
NoMoreWarNow (1,259 posts)
5. this is a madness that seems impervious to democratic influence
the fucking military-intelliegence,-industrial complex is fucking out of control.
Response to xchrom (Original post)
Fri Dec 21, 2012, 08:34 AM
another_liberal (8,213 posts)
8. It's the "War on Terror!"
Although our genuine "Terrorist Enemies" now only number a few hundred (at most) some security geeks still see this as a situation equivalent with the darkest days of the American Civil War. One hundred and fifty years ago President Lincoln suspended Americans' civil liberties in order to win a desperate struggle to save our national union. The Dick Cheney administration claimed that precedent as justification for every kind of extra-Constitutional outrage imaginable. Sadly, we are still operating under the assumption our country will be overrun with "Towel-headed murders" if we allow the rule of law to be reimposed. Nonsense, pure nonsense!
It is long past time to restore our Civil Rights and Constitutional protections to, at least, their pre-9/11 standing.
Response to RomneyLies (Reply #9)
Fri Dec 21, 2012, 03:46 PM
Jim Lane (6,706 posts)
17. Would you please elaborate?
The OP and the linked article rest on two simple propositions: that Congress is moving toward authorizing indefinite detention without trial, and that such a law would violate the Fifth Amendment.
The support for the first proposition is in a New York Times story that's quoted in the linked article as follows:
Lawmakers charged with merging the House and Senate versions of the National Defense Authorization Act decided on Tuesday to drop a provision that would have explicitly barred the military from holding American citizens and permanent residents in indefinite detention without trial as terrorism suspects, according to Congressional staff members familiar with the negotiations.
The second proposition isn't defended in the linked article. The author takes it as a given that such a law would violate the Due Process Clause of the Fifth Amendment.
Both propositions seem to me to be correct. Do you dispute the first, the second, or both, and what's the basis of your disagreement?