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Thu Dec 20, 2012, 09:25 PM

I think Obama has slowly been playing chess 8 steps ahead. Checkmate is very close.

I read a lot of politics. I read a lot of DU.

I have never understood Obama because he plays too many moves ahead for me to understand. Gay Soldiers? I thought he would ignore that and....suddenly Don't ask don't tell is gone.

I thought Hillary was going to destroy him and he outplayed her.

Romney and his ilk thought they had him beat and they didn't wake up until they were already lambs at the slaughter.

I don't know what he is doing. I just can't think that many moves ahead. Usually a politician trumpets their every victory. Obama has trumpeted nothing yet. Which makes me think he is only part way through his game.

But the fiscal cliff, I believe, is not what we think it is. I think it is a well-played trap that is going to leave the Republican so damaged that they will fracture from within, be destroyed from without, and be left with a weakened party that is going to have their power slowly drained from their well-payed for red states and red legislatures.

I do know this... this humiliation they are being led into will be ever so sweet a revenge for all the crap they have been heaping on the American Public.

119 replies, 7900 views

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Reply I think Obama has slowly been playing chess 8 steps ahead. Checkmate is very close. (Original post)
DonRedwood Dec 2012 OP
bluestateguy Dec 2012 #1
DonRedwood Dec 2012 #8
backscatter712 Dec 2012 #23
SidDithers Dec 2012 #25
Tarheel_Dem Dec 2012 #39
patrice Dec 2012 #43
Dark n Stormy Knight Dec 2012 #58
woo me with science Dec 2012 #61
patrice Dec 2012 #67
patrice Dec 2012 #62
Dark n Stormy Knight Dec 2012 #74
patrice Dec 2012 #76
Dark n Stormy Knight Dec 2012 #80
patrice Dec 2012 #83
Dark n Stormy Knight Dec 2012 #85
patrice Dec 2012 #86
merrily Dec 2012 #104
Dark n Stormy Knight Dec 2012 #115
DonRedwood Dec 2012 #90
cliffordu Dec 2012 #72
Dark n Stormy Knight Dec 2012 #73
cliffordu Dec 2012 #75
amandabeech Dec 2012 #81
Dark n Stormy Knight Dec 2012 #84
cliffordu Dec 2012 #87
Dark n Stormy Knight Dec 2012 #117
Dark n Stormy Knight Dec 2012 #118
DonRedwood Dec 2012 #94
Dark n Stormy Knight Dec 2012 #116
DonRedwood Dec 2012 #92
DonRedwood Dec 2012 #91
freshwest Dec 2012 #64
DonRedwood Dec 2012 #93
merrily Dec 2012 #105
merrily Dec 2012 #102
merrily Dec 2012 #103
Gregorian Dec 2012 #2
DonRedwood Dec 2012 #12
Gregorian Dec 2012 #14
DonRedwood Dec 2012 #34
freshwest Dec 2012 #65
BlancheSplanchnik Dec 2012 #48
freshwest Dec 2012 #66
BlancheSplanchnik Dec 2012 #109
freshwest Dec 2012 #111
Gregorian Dec 2012 #96
BlancheSplanchnik Dec 2012 #110
Stuart G Dec 2012 #3
elleng Dec 2012 #4
cyberspirit Dec 2012 #5
DonRedwood Dec 2012 #52
freshwest Dec 2012 #68
Barack_America Dec 2012 #6
TheKentuckian Dec 2012 #59
jaysunb Dec 2012 #7
deafskeptic Dec 2012 #9
DonRedwood Dec 2012 #53
humbled_opinion Dec 2012 #10
DonRedwood Dec 2012 #54
humbled_opinion Dec 2012 #60
iandhr Dec 2012 #11
lindysalsagal Dec 2012 #13
Cha Dec 2012 #15
Riverman100 Dec 2012 #16
DonRedwood Dec 2012 #55
MrSlayer Dec 2012 #17
DJ13 Dec 2012 #26
dionysus Dec 2012 #36
DJ13 Dec 2012 #47
rhett o rick Dec 2012 #56
patrice Dec 2012 #78
rhett o rick Dec 2012 #89
patrice Dec 2012 #97
patrice Dec 2012 #99
forestpath Dec 2012 #30
HoosierRadical Dec 2012 #71
Doctor_J Dec 2012 #113
MrSlayer Dec 2012 #114
Doctor_J Dec 2012 #119
CakeGrrl Dec 2012 #18
patrice Dec 2012 #46
sheshe2 Dec 2012 #19
Tribalceltic Dec 2012 #20
ailsagirl Dec 2012 #21
LongTomH Dec 2012 #22
byronius Dec 2012 #24
DonCoquixote Dec 2012 #27
Exultant Democracy Dec 2012 #28
Ilsa Dec 2012 #29
RKP5637 Dec 2012 #31
MrModerate Dec 2012 #32
littlemissmartypants Dec 2012 #44
ProudProgressiveNow Dec 2012 #33
caseymoz Dec 2012 #35
patrice Dec 2012 #49
SaveAmerica Dec 2012 #37
reverend_tim Dec 2012 #38
Lone_Star_Dem Dec 2012 #40
patrice Dec 2012 #41
BainsBane Dec 2012 #42
flamingdem Dec 2012 #45
dmr Dec 2012 #50
merrily Dec 2012 #106
Skittles Dec 2012 #51
veganlush Dec 2012 #57
Fearless Dec 2012 #63
HoosierRadical Dec 2012 #69
hfojvt Dec 2012 #70
patrice Dec 2012 #77
PotatoChip Dec 2012 #79
lamp_shade Dec 2012 #82
graham4anything Dec 2012 #88
Scurrilous Dec 2012 #95
Bucky Dec 2012 #98
ZombieHorde Dec 2012 #100
merrily Dec 2012 #101
bowens43 Dec 2012 #107
closeupready Dec 2012 #108
grahamhgreen Dec 2012 #112

Response to DonRedwood (Original post)

Thu Dec 20, 2012, 09:28 PM

1. Everybody mocked him for playing 15 dimensional chess in repealing DADT

and you know what? It worked.

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Response to bluestateguy (Reply #1)

Thu Dec 20, 2012, 09:47 PM

8. I know! I was getting sort of mad and then....

poof. done.

I think the same thing is going to happen to doma

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Response to bluestateguy (Reply #1)

Thu Dec 20, 2012, 11:00 PM

23. As much as that phrase has been one of mocking, Obama's a pretty good chess player.

Somehow, the usual despair-trolling seems to have dissipated all of the sudden.

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Response to backscatter712 (Reply #23)

Thu Dec 20, 2012, 11:03 PM

25. "despair trolling". What a perfect description...



I'm so stealing that.

Sid

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Response to SidDithers (Reply #25)

Fri Dec 21, 2012, 12:00 AM

39. I ditto that! "Despair trolling".

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Response to SidDithers (Reply #25)

Fri Dec 21, 2012, 12:21 AM

43. Well, things are pretty dicey for some of us so "despair" is a highly marketable commodity even with

those who kinda just almost see the outlines of this big event it's hard not to worry more than hope.

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Response to patrice (Reply #43)

Fri Dec 21, 2012, 01:35 AM

58. If the Democrats don't not just stop the attempted dismantling of our social safety nets, but, also

in fact improve them, some of us are looking at a pretty desperate future. So, for many of us, the despair is not trolling. It is reality-based fear.

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Response to Dark n Stormy Knight (Reply #58)

Fri Dec 21, 2012, 02:09 AM

61. Indeed. Mocking despair is quintessentially corporatist and Third Way.

Lack of empathy and right-wing policies go together, as they always have. We see that every single day.

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Response to woo me with science (Reply #61)

Fri Dec 21, 2012, 02:48 AM

67. Pardon me, if I have difficulty trusting people who don't care about facts & engage in zero-sum

obfuscation of what is actually going on, cutting the ground out from under themselves and endangering stuff that they refuse to even admit is real. That's a mockery too, you know.

Lack of empathy? Someday maybe I'll tell us all about my friend and computer tutoree, Eddie (not his real name, btw), not that that will make anyone stop and ask themselves what the hell they are doing when they're screaming about whatever the latest outrage fad is: Susan Rice, CPI, whatever's next. It's all good, ALL of it more important than some wheelchair bound guy you never met, because it's an opportunity for inflated egos to aggregate what they think is power, but isn't. It's too late for Eddie now anyway, so maybe I'll keep the memory of his happy smile to myself, rather than offer it to a bunch of strangers who are so damned "right" that what happened to him won't really matter next to adding a few more pseudonymous attaboys to some thread on the internet, so people can brag about what great revolutionaries they are.

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Response to Dark n Stormy Knight (Reply #58)

Fri Dec 21, 2012, 02:21 AM

62. There are some things that could happen in health care if we stick together. I'm also hoping to see

unions venturing into new areas of creative problem solving as they fight for their lives against these rich fascists.

We need new business and living models.

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Response to patrice (Reply #62)

Fri Dec 21, 2012, 03:56 AM

74. If we lose unions, we're sunk. If they can survive, they can help with most of what I

believe we need to defeat the modern day robber barons.

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Response to Dark n Stormy Knight (Reply #74)

Fri Dec 21, 2012, 04:02 AM

76. Not everyone you meet is union friendly. They are in a very dicey position, with the downward

pressure on American wages, courted and attacked from above and below, not an easy place to be.

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Response to patrice (Reply #76)

Fri Dec 21, 2012, 04:27 AM

80. Unions gave people some good reasons to criticize them, and they've been demonized by focusing on

those reasons or trumped up versions of them. For instance, we had a janitor in our building who was repeatedly caught stealing from teachers locked closets, and he could not be fired. That made even other union members angry. But, working people need to know all the good that unions have done for them and what they are losing as unions are weakened and eliminated.

Corporate domination of the media has pushed the "unions=evil" meme and we need money to get the opposite message out there.

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Response to Dark n Stormy Knight (Reply #80)

Fri Dec 21, 2012, 04:38 AM

83. I completely agree. Really hoping to see unions get real creative on the issues, some of them

maybe even all of the way to new co -operative, worker owned, profit sharing, business models and eventually perhaps coalitions of related co-operatives working together in certain types of enterprises.

If we can leave our kids something, I'm hoping it's at least a decent health care system and some new economics that are more economically efficient for offering real value/work in exchange for real value/work, thus reducing unnecessary overhead and offering opportunities to invest in the people and their enterprise itself. Have you heard of Mondragon, in Spain? Google will get it for you.

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Response to patrice (Reply #83)

Fri Dec 21, 2012, 04:49 AM

85. "co -operative, worker owned, profit sharing, business models." THIS to me is about the most

obvious and important thing that would benefit workers and take power from the plutocrats. And, of course, that decent health care system--one not tied to employment.

I will check into the Mondragon thing tomorrow. DU has kept me up waaaay past my bedtime. Must get some sleep now!

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Response to Dark n Stormy Knight (Reply #85)

Fri Dec 21, 2012, 04:56 AM

86. Glad to meet you Dark n Stormy Knight! & Very glad that we agree about this point! Good Knight! nt

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Response to Dark n Stormy Knight (Reply #80)

Fri Dec 21, 2012, 02:47 PM

104. Someone who can be proven to have stolen can be fired, union or not.

Was it a public school? If so, the due process clause of the U.S. Constitution (and probably the state's constitution) kicks in, which is a separate issue from unions.

If there is a hearing, the union will usually provide a defense, that is true. But that is how our legal system works. Everyone is entitled to a defense.

Maybe he never did get fired, but that is very different from saying he could not be fired. He could.

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Response to merrily (Reply #104)

Sat Dec 22, 2012, 02:09 AM

115. Good point. I always correct people who say "teacher's can't get fired," because, yes, they can.

Neither tenure nor the union guarantee that one won't be fired, but they can help protect teachers from indiscriminate firings.

As for the janitor I referred to: Yes, it was a public school In addition to much circumstantial evidence in a number in incidents, the principal saw the janitor stealing money from a teacher's desk. It never went to court. He was suspended for a few weeks and then returned to work in the same school.

It was not just the stealing--he harassed many of the young female teachers with unrelenting, unwanted "attention." Nothing clearly actionable, but it was distracting and very annoying, to say the least.

He also behaved in a way that made many of us question the wisdom of having him work around the children. One thing, for example, he used to get down on the ground and bark and chase the other janitors, like he was a dog. Very, very odd.

As we all understood it, his union (a far stronger one than our teachers' union, who was constantly allowing the admin to get away with things our contract prohibited) protected him from more appropriate consequences of his behavior. It was said that the district was intimidated by the union, which supposedly kept them from pressing charges on the theft and from any action regarding the other behaviors. If any of the parents had been insistent that something be done, I expect that would have made a difference in the district's willingness to go press the matter.

Those of use who were the focus of his "affection didn't know how to handle it. No one wanted him fired over that sort of thing--(which we at that time did think was possible, even if we later came to question that)--nor did we want to deal with his pouting and needling, which was the result when we expressed, even in the most tactful way, that his behavior was inappropriate.

This guy was way more trouble than he was worth, in so many ways, that it made sense that his powerful union has something to do with the seeming inability to reign him in. Many factors involved, however, obviously.

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Response to Dark n Stormy Knight (Reply #74)

Fri Dec 21, 2012, 10:21 AM

90. They have done a good job of making people hate the unions

look at what is happening to teachers.... it isn't about teachers, it is about crushing a union...

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Response to Dark n Stormy Knight (Reply #58)

Fri Dec 21, 2012, 03:37 AM

72. Blah. I live on SS and a small Veteran's pension.

I ain't skeered of what he's going to do....and won't tolerate panic peeps.

This is the smartest fucker I've seen in a loong time

And I know a LOT of smart fuckers.

Don't bet against this man. He IS the smartest man in the room, and he is absolutely ruthless, no matter how sweet he seems.

This is the man who dismantled Donald Trump with jokes while killing Bin Laden.

He's the fucker who chumped almost ALL the Republicans into signing on to this Fiscal Cliff business...And NOW he's going to let them jump right off.

I'll never make him mad at me.

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Response to cliffordu (Reply #72)

Fri Dec 21, 2012, 03:51 AM

73. I don't doubt that the president is very intelligent. I doubt that he rejects right wing

economic theory. He's consistently backed them up on their insistence on the urgency of deficit reduction even in a recession or a slow recovery from one, for instance.

I know he's not FDR, but I think those of us who've not amassed a fortune to draw from in our post-employment years would be far better off with someone more like him as president.

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Response to Dark n Stormy Knight (Reply #73)

Fri Dec 21, 2012, 03:59 AM

75. OK: Name ONE thing he's actually DONE to make your statement true:

"He's consistently backed them up on their insistence on the urgency of deficit reduction even in a recession or a slow recovery from one, for instance."

What has he signed into law that proves this statement?

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Response to cliffordu (Reply #75)

Fri Dec 21, 2012, 04:27 AM

81. He started with that no-strings TARP. Good enough for you?

How about Dodd-Frank that will do nothing to reign in these big financial institutions.

How about that settlement with the banks over the mortgage meltdown? The banks won that with our President pushing it down the throats of a few dissenting AGS.

What about not prosecuting any of the banksters?

Sorry, but this guy is pure Chicago School of Economics.

Oh yes, and he promised to re-negotiate NAFTA. What he didn't do it?

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Response to cliffordu (Reply #75)

Fri Dec 21, 2012, 04:41 AM

84. Clearly the center has been dragged so far to the right, resulting in all sorts of bad policy,

and lack of good policy, because the right has been successful in selling their message. Anything that supports that message helps them and hurts us. When the president puts forth their message, that's, at best, a lost opportunity to support Democratic policies.

In past and present budget negotiations, the president has given support, for instance, to the idea that the federal budget is just like a household budget. He has given support for the idea that we need to worry about reducing the deficit now, instead of pushing the idea that now is the time for stimulating the economy.

Public opinion matters and he would help Democrats by using the bully pulpit to influence public opinion in support of the philosophy behind progressive policy.

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Response to Dark n Stormy Knight (Reply #84)

Fri Dec 21, 2012, 04:56 AM

87. SORRY BUT WHAT YOU JUST WROTE IS GIBBERISH

WHAT THE FUCK ARE YOU SAYING?

I mean in real dollars and shit.

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Response to cliffordu (Reply #87)

Sat Dec 22, 2012, 02:27 AM

117. Gibberish?! I don't think that word means what you think it means. My point was clear. If you can't

fathom the connection between the public opinion and "dollars and shit," you've got a lot of catching up to do.

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Response to cliffordu (Reply #87)

Sat Dec 22, 2012, 02:33 AM

118. Also, interesting you had no response to amandabeech at post #81, but decided to rudely SHOUT

at me instead, calling perfectly understandable English communication, GIBBERISH.

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Response to Dark n Stormy Knight (Reply #84)

Fri Dec 21, 2012, 10:32 AM

94. selling your message and having FAUX lie constantly about your made up message are two different thi

things...

As we saw in the debate...the right is just making up stuff.

How do you fight constant lies? If Obama spent his day saying "They are lying" every time they lied...well, that is all Obama would be saying.

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Response to DonRedwood (Reply #94)

Sat Dec 22, 2012, 02:13 AM

116. I don't expect him to correct every RW lie, I just don't want him being another voice in their

chorus.

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Response to Dark n Stormy Knight (Reply #73)

Fri Dec 21, 2012, 10:29 AM

92. Well, he wasn't a choice now, was he? That's like wishing George Washington was in charge in Afghan

Roosevelt wasn't fighting the tea party.

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Response to cliffordu (Reply #72)

Fri Dec 21, 2012, 10:25 AM

91. sort of like a pied piper....but he is leading all the rats of the cliff

and like lemmings it looks like they are just following along.

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Response to backscatter712 (Reply #23)

Fri Dec 21, 2012, 02:28 AM

64. Check the home page. Morphed to rageful epitaphs.

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Response to freshwest (Reply #64)

Fri Dec 21, 2012, 10:30 AM

93. Lots of anger at the president

and not very much at the tea party

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Response to DonRedwood (Reply #93)

Fri Dec 21, 2012, 02:52 PM

105. I don't think that is the case. I think some people do not always bother to say they don't

like the Tea Party because it is a given if you are a Democrat. If you are a Democrat, it is not a given that you are displeased with the actions (or inactions, as is sometimes the issue) of a Democratic President.

No one posts the sky is blue, either. That does not mean people think the sky is green.

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Response to bluestateguy (Reply #1)

Fri Dec 21, 2012, 02:38 PM

102. Not how I remember it.

What I remember is people criticizing him for saying he had no power to repeal DADT by executive order.

As I also recall, he was President; he was CIC; Democrats controlled the house and had sixty in the Senate caucus and, if I recall correctly, even Lieberman did not oppose repeal of DADT.

But it would be silly to re-litigate that now, wouldn't it? It's moot and there are bigger and more current fish to fry.

ETA: And a lot of promising military careers were irrevocably ended between his inauguration and implementation of the repeal.

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Response to bluestateguy (Reply #1)

Fri Dec 21, 2012, 02:42 PM

103. My recollection was correct: I just googled. Lieberman supported repeal. So did Susan Collins.

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Response to DonRedwood (Original post)

Thu Dec 20, 2012, 09:32 PM

2. This is great theater. Obama has a rope. He just keeps feeding them what they ask for.

And when they get to the end of the rope, there's a knot. Or rather, a noose.

It's like listening to Coltrane. No one could touch him. He had, among other things, a kind of formula that worked great.

It's fun. I knew something was up. I didn't post in the doom threads. I actually did give up hope when it looked to be done. And then, boom, out came that noose.

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Response to Gregorian (Reply #2)

Thu Dec 20, 2012, 10:21 PM

12. as they shutter congress and skulk out of town....tax cuts for the rich, gone. military spending-cut

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Response to DonRedwood (Reply #12)

Thu Dec 20, 2012, 10:25 PM

14. As I sit here watching Les Miserables, I feel such a glow; a thrill.

What you just said. I'm trying to keep it just out of reach of my conscious, so I can savor it fully, later.

I've got to edit this by saying maybe we should temper our glee. This kind of big money doesn't go quietly. Jan 1 is still a ways away. I see threads asking about what may happen. Fingers crossed!

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Response to Gregorian (Reply #14)

Thu Dec 20, 2012, 11:49 PM

34. no glee...merely a battle victory before we start the next battle.

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Response to Gregorian (Reply #14)

Fri Dec 21, 2012, 02:30 AM

65. No, they won't go away. Fireworks next year.

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Response to Gregorian (Reply #2)

Fri Dec 21, 2012, 12:33 AM

48. i think i saw you in that thread....i just posted in it 'bout an hour ago

And I was suddenly in freak out mode along with the seeming reports that it was done, we could say goodbye to S. S.


I feel really dumb now!

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Response to BlancheSplanchnik (Reply #48)

Fri Dec 21, 2012, 02:31 AM

66. You're strong enough to say so, Blanche. Many aren't. But expect I hell from the new speaker.

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Response to freshwest (Reply #66)

Fri Dec 21, 2012, 03:23 PM

109. thanks fresh....yeah, I'm so sick of the common practice of refusing to admit one's weaker actions

I figure changing that part of our culture starts with me.

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Response to BlancheSplanchnik (Reply #109)

Fri Dec 21, 2012, 03:52 PM

111. I confess to being carried away at many times in my life, and it took decades to know the big pic.

I could say anyone who denies they've never been wrong or conned in this life, is wrong and conning themselves still. But perfection at times travels among us, but only for a brief moment to be immortalized in memory with great fondness. Humility is shunned by many as it leads them to a non-growth state of shame. Learn and move on. I think you're doing a good job.

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Response to BlancheSplanchnik (Reply #48)

Fri Dec 21, 2012, 11:43 AM

96. There's so much going on, even Rachel Maddow is wondering what happens next.

I've never expected social security to be there for me when I need it. I'm just that way.

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Response to Gregorian (Reply #96)

Fri Dec 21, 2012, 03:24 PM

110. I'm glad to be in good company!

Rachel is damn good company!!! (now I don't feel quite so dumb! )

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Response to DonRedwood (Original post)

Thu Dec 20, 2012, 09:33 PM

3. Yes, sir ree Bob...nt.

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Response to DonRedwood (Original post)

Thu Dec 20, 2012, 09:35 PM

4. Quite right.

I HOPE POTUS can get something worked out before too much damage, recession and debt-limit-wise. Tax rates shouldn't increase for 'extended period' of time.

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Response to DonRedwood (Original post)

Thu Dec 20, 2012, 09:36 PM

5. Obama smarter & more aware than most

I have learned not to get sucked into the MSM hype or the negative responses. Obama always comes out ahead & looking better than everyone else. I will always trust him before anything else. I may not always agree at first, but he has a whole more information than I do, so he sees a much bigger picture.

Thank you DonRedwood.

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Response to cyberspirit (Reply #5)

Fri Dec 21, 2012, 12:43 AM

52. Welcome to DU!!

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Response to cyberspirit (Reply #5)

Fri Dec 21, 2012, 02:49 AM

68. Thank you and welcome.

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Response to DonRedwood (Original post)

Thu Dec 20, 2012, 09:40 PM

6. And there is no surer bet than Republican ineptitude.

They don't even function as a party anymore, thanks for the teabaggers.

The cliff's just fine with me. Then on the first day of the new Congress, Dems can propose middle class tax cuts as an entity all their own. Put an end to this Bush shit that ties them to cuts for the rich.

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Response to Barack_America (Reply #6)

Fri Dec 21, 2012, 01:46 AM

59. What is the brilliance of negotiating the shitty deal you already had?

Though I cannot agree the cliff is fine by me, it is probably better than another bullshit deal.

I don't see any win in the constant knife sharpening around Social Security nor accepting the TeaPubliKlan/corporate premise.

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Response to DonRedwood (Original post)

Thu Dec 20, 2012, 09:43 PM

7. Good post

Lots of people here jump at every head fake the MSM throws out. It's been great fun watching.

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Response to DonRedwood (Original post)

Thu Dec 20, 2012, 10:16 PM

9. yep. He's good at this stuff

But I sure wish he wouldn't give me a heart attack in the process.

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Response to deafskeptic (Reply #9)

Fri Dec 21, 2012, 12:46 AM

53. lol...yes. Welcome to Du!

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Response to DonRedwood (Original post)

Thu Dec 20, 2012, 10:19 PM

10. However, there are some hard realities..

This country will never adopt single party rule, the repugs still own talk radio and faux news to get their message out, a large portion of their base is soley dedicated to ending the right of choice, and will never adopt a progressive vision on life.

From the fiscal perspective, I refuse to be a lemming going over the cliff to prove a point, that mentality has the potential to backfire and not on the GOP. Our Democratic leaders must have a tax cut plan ready to go in January to assure the middleclass are not destroyed by these rate increases.

I hope you are right and best case scenario which positions Democrats as the party of middleclass tax cuts will certainly cause pain for the GOP who are currently known as the tax cutters.... Dealing with the long term fiscal health of the country and a rebounding economy will certainly ensure a diminished GOP for the near term future.... but in the end politics seems to be cyclic, when there comes a time where nationalism is again a dominate factor they may rise up again, we can only hope that our side continues to create politicians like Obama but I fear he is one of a kind....at least that is the sense I get when I listen to him speak.

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Response to humbled_opinion (Reply #10)

Fri Dec 21, 2012, 12:50 AM

54. To be honest I wish we would split into three parties...or four

I'd vote green if I could....

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Response to DonRedwood (Reply #54)

Fri Dec 21, 2012, 02:05 AM

60. Your Honesty is clearly

exactly how the country really feels as a whole there are 4 primary parties but the 2 central parties decide on big tent philosophies and that's why it is so hard to get anything accomplished...

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Response to DonRedwood (Original post)

Thu Dec 20, 2012, 10:19 PM

11. This is why I am prepared to give POTUS some latitude.

He is 10x smarter then everyone else.

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Response to DonRedwood (Original post)

Thu Dec 20, 2012, 10:22 PM

13. Obama's famous "rope-a-dope."

He's counting on GOP foolishness. Guaranteed to work.

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Response to DonRedwood (Original post)

Thu Dec 20, 2012, 10:28 PM

15. Yes, it is a good post.. I like how your mind works..thanks, DonRedwood for the

mini capsule of Obama's history in thinking ahead and having the strength and patience to see it through.

Plan B-oner and the Plutocrats have been relentlessly Terrorizing the American People since 2010.. And now, B-oner can't even get the votes to pass his Plan. Non sure why but my guess is it doesn't terrorize the Poor and the Middle Class enough.



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Response to DonRedwood (Original post)

Thu Dec 20, 2012, 10:28 PM

16. God I hope you are right..

and I think that you are right on this. No matter how it ends, I think the gop is going to get crushed on this..... and thats all i want for Christmas

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Response to Riverman100 (Reply #16)

Fri Dec 21, 2012, 12:52 AM

55. I'm hoping you get all that AND a big welcome to DU as well!!

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Response to DonRedwood (Original post)

Thu Dec 20, 2012, 10:31 PM

17. I believe he really wanted this deal.

 

He wanted to sign the bill on the deal he offered Boner but, as terrible as it was, Boner couldn't get it past the baggers.

I think this is more a product of teabagger obstinence and idiocy than any 3-D chess.

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Response to MrSlayer (Reply #17)

Thu Dec 20, 2012, 11:08 PM

26. +1

He wanted that deal bad, including the chained CPI (which he keeps trying to get for some reason).

He's probably hoping Boehner next tries to pass their deal.

I hope that fails as well.

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Response to DJ13 (Reply #26)

Thu Dec 20, 2012, 11:52 PM

36. can you please explain why you think why Obama has spent his whole life to become president

in order to screw over the entire country vis a vis SS? surely there must be some motive why he is this evil man so many DUers portray him as...

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Response to dionysus (Reply #36)

Fri Dec 21, 2012, 12:33 AM

47. Not his whole life

He's a friend of Pete Peterson, who has made reducing Social Security his life's mission.

Dont you think its odd that a man like Obama with a reputation for being a straight shooter keeps trying to use the deficit as an excuse to try and reduce a program that has its own funding and by law cant be a budget item that adds ZERO to the deficit?

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Response to dionysus (Reply #36)

Fri Dec 21, 2012, 12:58 AM

56. Intellectual dishonesty. No one here has said Pres Obama is an evil man. No one has said he is

attempting to screw over the ENTIRE country. Wow. Shame on you. But maybe his view of how to "help" us is not the same as ours.

Maybe we dont agree that cutting SS benefits will strengthen it. Is cutting defense spending off the table???? How about cutting corporate welfare? Is that off the table? How about fixing Medicare Part D? Why oh why are we even discussing SS?

Do you want to cut SS benefits?

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Response to rhett o rick (Reply #56)

Fri Dec 21, 2012, 04:13 AM

78. I see those kinds of accusations frequently. People calling him a liar & enjoying it! NO ONE WANTS

to cut SS benefits, most don't even want the CPI.

ALL of this is about **HOW** to proceed, especially when so many people are translating "EVERYTHING is on the table" to one thing and one thing only, CPI. That is NOT the case, especially with the deadline for the health care insurance exchanges approaching and with the feds designing and running exchanges for almost half of the states, like mine, who have rejected the ACA.

Please answer my question: Put yourself in PO's shoes, you're dealing with Boehner who has shown himself from the beginning to be an ineffectual and dishonest negotiator, negotiating in bad faith, are you really telling me that in that situation you would in fact offer something you actually intended to achieve, something you actually want in the face of nothing but lies and diversion from the other side? Really would you do that?

Or would you offer something the opposition negotiator isn't that interested in BUT HIS BASE FEARS?

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Response to patrice (Reply #78)

Fri Dec 21, 2012, 08:47 AM

89. Here is what I would do.

Since the American people do not want SS and Medicare cut, and they clearly want the wealthy to pay higher taxes, I would make a very aggressive proposal, inclu lowering the Medicare age to 55, dropping the tax cuts for the wealthy, raising the capital gains rate to 30%, raising the SS cap, and cutting defense spending. When the Republicans had apoplexy and started crying, I would take it to the American people and make it crystal clear who was who. That's the position to start negotiating from. I would also tell Simmons and Bowles to go f themselves.

I dont understand what you mean by, "offer something the opposition negotiator isn't that interested in BUT HIS BASE FEARS?" Are you referring to offering to cut SS benefits?

No Democrat should offer to cut SS benefits.

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Response to rhett o rick (Reply #89)

Fri Dec 21, 2012, 12:16 PM

97. All good stuff, except that when you're talking about Medicare, it is a mischaracterization to

assume what "cuts" means, especially with the PP ACA in place providing a door through PP (Patient Protection) INTO - if I could enlarge this to foot-tall letters I would, but I'll have to settle for this - MORE DIRECT AND PATIENT CENTERED CARE THAT IS DIRECTED BY DIRECT CARE GIVERS (families, if there are any, nurses, CNA/CMAs, & doctors' team decisions about concrete outcomes) - not by high paid risk managers in all systems whose entire purpose is to get in between the care and the care-receivers for all kinds of political and economic motives that have little or nothing to do with, and in some cases directly EXPLOIT the people in our "care" factories. A HUGE PART OF THAT IS STAFFING/anti-LABOR strategizing which affects exactly WHO (with what kind of skills) shows up WHEN to do WHAT for people in need - AND THE POOR GET THE ABSOLUTE SHORTEST END OF THE STICK, OR ACTUALLY, NO STICK AT ALL IN THIS SITUATION.

These issues are being addressed, in just one dimension of this over all situation, by the formation of the federal insurance exchanges and THAT is affected by the insurance companies' perceptions of what they can get away with POLITICALLY (because, after all, their business is market driven), which they guage by all of the bullshit they can peddle on and around any Democrat but most especially PO. All of which SHOULD matter if you are, LIKE ME, a Single Payer/Expanded and Improved Medicare for ALL (HR 676) advocate, because if we can use the PP ACA/Obamacare to drive costs down low enough that will make Medicare an even better deal than it already is and THAT will allow us to PUSH for expansion of services to OTHER CARE MODELS and other/alternative services to include hopefully even full parity for Mental Health coverage.

Again, I'm not okay with the CPI, but I'm MORE not okay by people who lie about what is going on and take the definition of "everything is on the table" to mean CPI and only CPI when the people adopting that position totally reject that there is anything else FACTUALLY anything else that they, in their own best interest, ought to at least THINK about, because what I'm talking about above affects THEM waaaaaaaaaay more than it does anyone else.

But oh no, we're on the internet and bunch of reactionary people get a buzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzz on here posturing against the oppressor and end up cutting their own nose off to spite Obama's face.

You know what, this IS my life's work here now, until I die, I will be working on these issues one way or another, and I refuse, I REFUSE to work with anyone ANYONE who intentionally BLINDS themselves or others to the FACTS.

Everything =/= CPI.

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Response to rhett o rick (Reply #89)

Fri Dec 21, 2012, 12:30 PM

99. And, btw, I think anti-Labor is the motive behind Everything = CPI, Anarchists hate Unions

because they can't fuck with and, hence, control them and Anarchists want a piece of whatever new economic models come out of these crises.

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Response to MrSlayer (Reply #17)

Thu Dec 20, 2012, 11:14 PM

30. +1

 

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Response to MrSlayer (Reply #17)

Fri Dec 21, 2012, 03:29 AM

71. So do I

But hey I'm a skeptic...my worst fear is that President Obama wants to do this "grand bargain" BS so that he can be touted by the beltway and MSM media as pragmatic and non ideological.

He like too many Democrats seem to only have love for the base during election time, but view us as a irritant after they win re-election.

I hope I'm wrong though, I really do.

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Response to MrSlayer (Reply #17)

Fri Dec 21, 2012, 08:13 PM

113. Yep, he actually offered to cut SS benefits,

against the wishes of the people who voted for him, a lot of people who didn't, and the party appartchik inDC. No amount of lying, revisiting, or dreaming is going to change it. These kind of OPs are so ridiculous, and will assuredly lead to the disintegration of the Dem party. His high-level chess got National Heritage/Romneycare instead of SP or at least a public option. It also got us an extension of tax cuts that no one wanted except the hyper-rich.

Oh, and let's remember, there is no deal yet. All this drama was just to get us to a point where we would have been had he just taken cuts off the table on Nov 7.

He's either the worst politician in history (while governing - great at campaigning) or a nice buffer to ease us the rest of the way into corporatism. Hopefully the Congressional Dems can keep him in a mode to govern sanely between now and the mid-terms.

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Response to Doctor_J (Reply #113)

Fri Dec 21, 2012, 10:39 PM

114. He's not a bad politician or a fool.

 

He's doing just what he wants to do. And most of the elected Dems are just like him. All we have are the progressive caucus, a handful of senators and Bernie Sanders.

What the owners want, they're going to get. Elections be damned, will of the People be damned as well.

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Response to MrSlayer (Reply #114)

Sat Dec 22, 2012, 11:40 AM

119. Afraid you're right Slayer

I always wondered how the teabaggers/Fox Nation would be convinced into believing such preposterous pronouncements as they do. Now I read what many DUers are swallowing from "our" party and I realize that the propaganda really is that good. 85% of Americans don't want cuts to SS & Medicare, yet they are still on the table, proposed by a (D) president. More than half want health care for all, yet it is not even discussed - ever.

I hope that the revolution is coming - before I'm too old to help

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Response to DonRedwood (Original post)

Thu Dec 20, 2012, 10:32 PM

18. I'm with you. But as before,

some hector and condescend to him as if he's a dumb-luck fool who just fell off a turnip truck in spite of the accomplishments you listed in your OP - and try to pass it off as 'tough love' or 'holding his feet to the fire'. That's crap.

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Response to CakeGrrl (Reply #18)

Fri Dec 21, 2012, 12:33 AM

46. People either don't understand how this stuff works or they do & they intend somekind of effect upon

it, an effect that could be constructive or destructive, they dynamics are so complicated it's hard to predict.

Everyone is entitled to self expression, so they can say whatever, but it would be good to admit what it is that we are doing when we say things. To me that would be a token of good faith whatever someone's saying, to admit its experiential factual basis or not. Sure lots of people don't want to do that, so they don't have to and that's okay, but just as that's their right, so is it is my right to self expression that allows me to observe that just saying stuff doesn't make it so.

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Response to DonRedwood (Original post)

Thu Dec 20, 2012, 10:45 PM

19. Thanks Don

I have said before and I will say again!

The Obama team has their feet on the ground. They are quiet and stealthy, no one knows that they are there...then boom opposition obliterated.

My faith is in our President!

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Response to DonRedwood (Original post)

Thu Dec 20, 2012, 10:46 PM

20. "Please continue, Mr. Speaker" NT

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Response to DonRedwood (Original post)

Thu Dec 20, 2012, 10:56 PM

21. He's one tough, smart, cool cat and he knows exactly what he's doing

I think he's been very much underestimated-- but perhaps not so much anymore.




Time magazine has explained their choice saying, “Through crises and gridlock, President Barack Obama kept the trust of the American people – and won a chance to rekindle the hope that inspired a nation.”

In an essay on the weekly decision, Michael Scherer, the magazine's White House correspondent, points to "the Obama effect," and how it can be quantified.

"It could be measured — in wars stopped and started; industries saved, restructured or reregulated; tax cuts extended; debt levels inflated; terrorists killed; the health-insurance system reimagined; and gay service members who could walk in uniform with their partners," Scherer wrote.

This is the second time Obama has been honored with he Time magazine title of “Person of the Year.” He won in 2008 after being elected the nation’s first African-American President
.

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Response to DonRedwood (Original post)

Thu Dec 20, 2012, 10:58 PM

22. God! I hope you're right! I really do!!!!

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Response to DonRedwood (Original post)

Thu Dec 20, 2012, 11:02 PM

24. K&R.

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Response to DonRedwood (Original post)

Thu Dec 20, 2012, 11:10 PM

27. Yes, he is great at chess, but

I will be the first to say that unless we keep pressure on him, he will lose, because the other side frankly does not want to play chess. It only works when he has as many people yelling at him as praising him, so that we can play the "heels" if need be.

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Response to DonRedwood (Original post)

Thu Dec 20, 2012, 11:13 PM

28. If he is 8 steps ahead then a checkmate would entail making up the epic loss in 2010

and the resulting jury-rigging. I guess we will see in 2014.

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Response to DonRedwood (Original post)

Thu Dec 20, 2012, 11:13 PM

29. I had a hunch that the handwringing

of the last two days was indirectly and unintentionally part of the show, the ambiance of this minor opera that is being played out before us.

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Response to DonRedwood (Original post)

Thu Dec 20, 2012, 11:15 PM

31. I hope so, I really really do! n/t

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Response to DonRedwood (Original post)

Thu Dec 20, 2012, 11:26 PM

32. He's playing chess: they're playing checkers. n/t

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Response to MrModerate (Reply #32)

Fri Dec 21, 2012, 12:26 AM

44. He's playing chess and

they have lost their marbles.

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Response to DonRedwood (Original post)

Thu Dec 20, 2012, 11:46 PM

33. K&R nt

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Response to DonRedwood (Original post)

Thu Dec 20, 2012, 11:51 PM

35. Chess game has always been a metaphor . . .


. . . almost a joke. But his skill in negotiating could only be judged in retrospect.

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Response to caseymoz (Reply #35)

Fri Dec 21, 2012, 12:36 AM

49. That's an important point & it explains why all of this is so intensely enervating. You can't really

tell what's going on (unless you're somekind of incredible card counter with this deck of cards that might just as well be infinite in size) . . . you can't really see much more than hypothetical outlines, until in retrospect, unfortunately, after the fact.

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Response to DonRedwood (Original post)

Thu Dec 20, 2012, 11:55 PM

37. I've felt this all along; they've had a plan and it's brilliant

I think that all of politics is chess (Tim Scott to Senate Seat) but Obama and his team are Bobby Fischer and company.

Booyah!!!!

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Response to DonRedwood (Original post)

Fri Dec 21, 2012, 12:00 AM

38. I hope you'r right, We were sure pissed at him here last night.

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Response to DonRedwood (Original post)

Fri Dec 21, 2012, 12:04 AM

40. I think he's out thinking me.

Before anyone snarks, I freely admit that's not giving him a compliment at face value.

I admit being worried about the chained CPI. Tonight I'm thinking things might just be alright. I'll be very happy to have wasted some worry for no reason.

I know Cantor is plotting, Boehner is grieving and I am smiling tonight.

I'm not displeased with this scenario.

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Response to DonRedwood (Original post)

Fri Dec 21, 2012, 12:15 AM

41. We STILL need to absolutely KICK ASS in 2014. I'm hoping with some younger new candidates!!!

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Response to DonRedwood (Original post)

Fri Dec 21, 2012, 12:21 AM

42. Y'all certainly are volatile about the President

I myself continue to withhold judgment because these things are always messy. And press accounts often aren't reliable, particularly if one side is leaking for political advantage. I'm all for making one's views known by contacting your representatives and the White House, but I'm not going to wring my hands about betrayal when I don't know the full story.

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Response to DonRedwood (Original post)

Fri Dec 21, 2012, 12:28 AM

45. He has certainly facilitated the auto destruction of the republican party

Proceed!

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Response to DonRedwood (Original post)

Fri Dec 21, 2012, 12:38 AM

50. I know this about President Obama and me -

He always proves my fears wrong.

Nowadays, I try to remain calm, write my letters to him (yea, I write him weekly), and then I wait for the final outcomes.

It's hard to do with issues I care about, and there are so many.

When I heard Nancy Pelosi say Social Security would be okay, I was taken aback. Not you, too, Nancy! But she is one I have the most Liberal faith in, so I let her confusing words calm me.

Gotta say, this has been one hell of a month.

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Response to dmr (Reply #50)

Fri Dec 21, 2012, 02:57 PM

106. Did you fear the ACA would include single payer or a public option? If so, he did prove

your fears were wrong.

Did you fear he would not allow the Bush tax cuts to expire on December 31, 2010 for incomes over $250K? If so, he proved that fear wrong as well.

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Response to DonRedwood (Original post)

Fri Dec 21, 2012, 12:39 AM

51. I've had a feeling something is up

I am very much hoping, too

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Response to DonRedwood (Original post)

Fri Dec 21, 2012, 01:26 AM

57. damn do i hope you are right!

The end of the world for the goddam repugnants

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Response to DonRedwood (Original post)

Fri Dec 21, 2012, 02:27 AM

63. I'll believe it when I see it.

I'd be happy to be wrong.

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Response to DonRedwood (Original post)

Fri Dec 21, 2012, 03:06 AM

69. I so hope you are right about this...

I get so angry at President Obama when I think he is about to agree to gut the social safety net, I have written that he seems to never learn his lesson when dealing with the GOP, but than it does appear he is a chess master of the highest order toying with a bunch of right wing loons.

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Response to DonRedwood (Original post)

Fri Dec 21, 2012, 03:14 AM

70. just as I figured

you are prepared to declare victory no matter what Obama does.

You probably think the surrender of 2010 was some sort of victory for Obama.

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Response to hfojvt (Reply #70)

Fri Dec 21, 2012, 04:04 AM

77. Not everyone is declaring victory. Pragmatists face what is going on. Some of us are just glad

for some progress amidst all of this hysteria.

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Response to DonRedwood (Original post)

Fri Dec 21, 2012, 04:20 AM

79. I hope that you are right.

President Obama never fails to impress me w/his intellect, calm reasonable demeanor, powers of persuasion, ect... I could go on an on. But the situation in Washington is so corrupt and toxic, that I fear even he, along with the rest of our party, could potentially become a casualty of it.

That said, if anyone is able to overcome these seemingly insurmountable obstacles, it would be our President.

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Response to DonRedwood (Original post)

Fri Dec 21, 2012, 04:28 AM

82. Rec #87

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Response to DonRedwood (Original post)

Fri Dec 21, 2012, 05:15 AM

88. Yup. I have been saying this all along. As has Al Sharpton, on MSNBC.

 



and 2013 has not even begun.

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Response to DonRedwood (Original post)

Fri Dec 21, 2012, 10:51 AM

95. K & R

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Response to DonRedwood (Original post)

Fri Dec 21, 2012, 12:27 PM

98. Obama plays chess

yay

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Response to DonRedwood (Original post)

Fri Dec 21, 2012, 02:24 PM

100. I really hope so. I really hope SS isn't cut. nt

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Response to DonRedwood (Original post)

Fri Dec 21, 2012, 02:34 PM

101. "Don't ask don't tell" was not gone suddenly.

Obama did not outplay Hillary.

He was chosen before the primaries because party leaders like Harry Reid though that Hillary had too much baggage. The fix was in from the start. Although, his campaign team was indeed better than hers, IMO.

Romney was a bad candidate with a bad campaign and Obama had the advantage of both incumbency and a superior campaign team. Also, no President in the history of the U.S. who ran for re-election while the country was at war has ever been defeated. Never. (Maybe that is why we now have a war on terrorism that will never, ever end?)

It's easy to assume that Obama plays three dimensional chess if you also always explain his shortcomings as being totally out of any human President's control, as with the public option.

In fact, almost any assumption is easy to make. Having an assumption withstand critical analysis, however, is not that easy.

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Response to DonRedwood (Original post)

Fri Dec 21, 2012, 03:12 PM

107. good luck with that

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Response to DonRedwood (Original post)

Fri Dec 21, 2012, 03:13 PM

108. K&R

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Response to DonRedwood (Original post)

Fri Dec 21, 2012, 06:43 PM

112. Sorry. SOCIAL SECURITY DOES NOT ADD ONE NICKEL TO THE DEFICIT. Why

Last edited Sat Dec 22, 2012, 02:18 AM - Edit history (1)

is it on the table?


When they show you who they are - believe them. - Randi Rhodes


What would checkmate look like?

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