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Thu Dec 20, 2012, 12:31 PM

Are you sick of getting hosed at every turn?

I am. I've really had it.

You?

149 replies, 12133 views

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Reply Are you sick of getting hosed at every turn? (Original post)
MannyGoldstein Dec 2012 OP
Octafish Dec 2012 #1
loudsue Dec 2012 #4
tex-wyo-dem Dec 2012 #63
sabrina 1 Dec 2012 #102
gussmith Dec 2012 #120
RKP5637 Dec 2012 #2
Autumn Dec 2012 #3
limpyhobbler Dec 2012 #18
RKP5637 Dec 2012 #33
jsr Dec 2012 #5
leveymg Dec 2012 #6
RKP5637 Dec 2012 #34
leveymg Dec 2012 #55
RKP5637 Dec 2012 #78
DJ13 Dec 2012 #69
RKP5637 Dec 2012 #77
sulphurdunn Dec 2012 #105
merrily Dec 2012 #124
merrily Dec 2012 #123
Poll_Blind Dec 2012 #7
jsr Dec 2012 #10
MannyGoldstein Dec 2012 #13
leftstreet Dec 2012 #20
merrily Dec 2012 #125
Whisp Dec 2012 #8
donheld Dec 2012 #9
Doctor_J Dec 2012 #11
merrily Dec 2012 #126
MineralMan Dec 2012 #12
Fumesucker Dec 2012 #42
MineralMan Dec 2012 #49
Fumesucker Dec 2012 #53
AnotherMcIntosh Dec 2012 #86
MineralMan Dec 2012 #103
Fumesucker Dec 2012 #104
rhett o rick Dec 2012 #110
Quantess Dec 2012 #100
MannyGoldstein Dec 2012 #56
Jim Warren Dec 2012 #14
merrily Dec 2012 #128
Jim Warren Dec 2012 #133
reformist2 Dec 2012 #15
Dustlawyer Dec 2012 #21
merrily Dec 2012 #129
forestpath Dec 2012 #16
FiveGoodMen Dec 2012 #35
merrily Dec 2012 #130
FiveGoodMen Dec 2012 #138
jsr Dec 2012 #17
AnotherMcIntosh Dec 2012 #89
Dustlawyer Dec 2012 #19
99Forever Dec 2012 #22
WillyT Dec 2012 #23
Jim Warren Dec 2012 #24
MannyGoldstein Dec 2012 #25
limpyhobbler Dec 2012 #26
Dustlawyer Dec 2012 #27
vi5 Dec 2012 #28
bigtree Dec 2012 #29
socialindependocrat Dec 2012 #62
HiPointDem Dec 2012 #81
Oilwellian Dec 2012 #139
bigtree Dec 2012 #141
bigtree Dec 2012 #142
Oilwellian Dec 2012 #143
bigtree Dec 2012 #144
Oilwellian Dec 2012 #145
bigtree Dec 2012 #146
bigtree Dec 2012 #147
bigtree Dec 2012 #148
Cleita Dec 2012 #30
WorseBeforeBetter Dec 2012 #74
Initech Dec 2012 #31
Not Sure Dec 2012 #37
d_b Dec 2012 #32
Not Sure Dec 2012 #36
mother earth Dec 2012 #38
nadinbrzezinski Dec 2012 #39
MannyGoldstein Dec 2012 #43
nadinbrzezinski Dec 2012 #47
MannyGoldstein Dec 2012 #59
nadinbrzezinski Dec 2012 #70
DissidentVoice Dec 2012 #40
duffyduff Dec 2012 #41
MNBrewer Dec 2012 #44
bowens43 Dec 2012 #83
MNBrewer Dec 2012 #99
ChisolmTrailDem Dec 2012 #45
99Forever Dec 2012 #57
ChisolmTrailDem Dec 2012 #64
99Forever Dec 2012 #68
MannyGoldstein Dec 2012 #61
ChisolmTrailDem Dec 2012 #66
MannyGoldstein Dec 2012 #80
cliffordu Dec 2012 #46
MannyGoldstein Dec 2012 #51
cliffordu Dec 2012 #52
MannyGoldstein Dec 2012 #54
UnrepentantLiberal Dec 2012 #48
WilliamPitt Dec 2012 #50
MannyGoldstein Dec 2012 #58
WilliamPitt Dec 2012 #60
MannyGoldstein Dec 2012 #92
WilliamPitt Dec 2012 #94
MannyGoldstein Dec 2012 #96
woo me with science Dec 2012 #97
blackspade Dec 2012 #65
MotherPetrie Dec 2012 #67
Ganja Ninja Dec 2012 #71
Liberal1975 Dec 2012 #72
raccoon Dec 2012 #75
Puglover Dec 2012 #95
yurbud Dec 2012 #73
rivegauche Dec 2012 #76
yurbud Dec 2012 #79
rivegauche Dec 2012 #87
bowens43 Dec 2012 #84
rivegauche Dec 2012 #88
Liberal1975 Dec 2012 #90
bowens43 Dec 2012 #82
RoccoR5955 Dec 2012 #85
Taverner Dec 2012 #91
byeya Dec 2012 #93
woo me with science Dec 2012 #98
Not a Fan Dec 2012 #101
tridim Dec 2012 #106
MannyGoldstein Dec 2012 #107
tridim Dec 2012 #111
MannyGoldstein Dec 2012 #136
FSogol Dec 2012 #112
lunasun Dec 2012 #108
southernyankeebelle Dec 2012 #109
ProfessionalLeftist Dec 2012 #113
NCTraveler Dec 2012 #114
pscot Dec 2012 #115
JoePhilly Dec 2012 #116
pnwmom Dec 2012 #122
saidsimplesimon Dec 2012 #117
Gregorian Dec 2012 #118
gussmith Dec 2012 #119
merrily Dec 2012 #131
pnwmom Dec 2012 #121
liberal N proud Dec 2012 #127
merrily Dec 2012 #132
awoke_in_2003 Dec 2012 #134
closeupready Dec 2012 #135
stevenleser Dec 2012 #137
Rex Dec 2012 #140
madinmaryland Dec 2012 #149

Response to MannyGoldstein (Original post)

Thu Dec 20, 2012, 12:34 PM

1. What makes me furious is the buy-partisanship.

"You can play ball and good things can happen to you get a big pot of gold at the end of the Wall Street rainbow or you can do your job be aggressive and face personal ruin...We really need to rethink how we govern and how regulate." -- Neil Barofsky

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Response to Octafish (Reply #1)

Thu Dec 20, 2012, 12:36 PM

4. I'm recommending your post, Octafish. +1,000,000

Buy-partisanship. No joke.

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Response to Octafish (Reply #1)

Thu Dec 20, 2012, 03:15 PM

63. Yep, sums it up...

It's the way the money party has set us up...and by the "money party", I mean both parties.

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Response to Octafish (Reply #1)

Thu Dec 20, 2012, 07:35 PM

102. Barofsky. Thank you for reminding me of him Octafish.

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Response to Octafish (Reply #1)

Fri Dec 21, 2012, 12:13 PM

120. Defense Spending

Why, why, why is defense spending so off the table? We could spend the entire federal budget on defense and there would always be a supposed 'need' for more funding. I want a leader who is not afraid to ask the rest of the world to significantly help shoulder the burden of the world's defense. Let's demand it.

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Response to MannyGoldstein (Original post)

Thu Dec 20, 2012, 12:35 PM

2. Yep!!! Each day brings more of the SOS and new SH**! n/t

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Response to MannyGoldstein (Original post)

Thu Dec 20, 2012, 12:36 PM

3. I'm fucking sick of it. I'm fucking sick of these people we elect playing their sorry

ass fucking games. These people in office are the most disgraceful corrupt pigs I have ever seen in my life. And that's not just republicans, that's both fucking sides. To hell with them. The day a deal is reached is the day I change from a Democrat to any other party. A pox on both their houses.

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Response to Autumn (Reply #3)

Thu Dec 20, 2012, 01:16 PM

18. I understand this.

started calling myself an independent about a year ago.

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Response to Autumn (Reply #3)

Thu Dec 20, 2012, 02:23 PM

33. When it comes to $$$$$ A=B. n/t

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Response to MannyGoldstein (Original post)

Thu Dec 20, 2012, 12:38 PM

5. Past performance is still the best predictor of future behavior.

So yeah, it's the same shit, different day.

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Response to MannyGoldstein (Original post)

Thu Dec 20, 2012, 12:38 PM

6. Obama really has no mandate for SS cuts aside from the Wall St. and Chicago BOT Boys.

Last edited Thu Dec 20, 2012, 02:57 PM - Edit history (1)

He thinks the rest of us are just going to have to accept it.

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Response to leveymg (Reply #6)

Thu Dec 20, 2012, 02:26 PM

34. And we were boxed in, him or Romney. ... might even think, so what are you going to do. Most

Americans are in a box, and those that don't get it lack the ability to see outta their box. And some climb in and close the lid over themselves ...

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Response to RKP5637 (Reply #34)

Thu Dec 20, 2012, 03:01 PM

55. US elections usually are between the Center-Right and Far Right-wing candidates. '12 was no except-

ion.

Just goes to show why so many Americans are so alienated from their government that almost half don't vote.

If we had a truly representative democracy, we would need Center-Left and Far Left parties to balance that out. Like most of Europe.

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Response to leveymg (Reply #55)

Thu Dec 20, 2012, 04:15 PM

78. I have to admit I get more tired of the entire mess more and more. The difference between R and D

is often marginal. The D's today are like the R's of my youth in many ways. And many of the D's today have no guts to stand their ground. If the D's drove a stake in the ground and said this is it, we aren't budging, I think more individuals would be with the D's. As it is, it's mushy and is a constant tit for tat. I'm not even sure what the democratic party stands for sometimes, anymore.


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Response to RKP5637 (Reply #34)

Thu Dec 20, 2012, 03:25 PM

69. And we were boxed in, him or Romney

The Republicans are cowards, theres no way a President Romney would want his legacy to be as the President who first cut Social Security.

Tea Party would, but not a straight laced Republican like Mittens.

Only a Democrat would dare.

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Response to DJ13 (Reply #69)

Thu Dec 20, 2012, 04:08 PM

77. If, he agrees to cut SS I think he's taking the D party down ... because these programs were

one of the huge differentiators between R's and D's. Quite often I have well educated individuals question why they should bother to vote, that in many ways R's and D's are often the same when it comes to big $$$$$, and "we the people" interests and desires take a back seat. As one of my really astute friends once said, does anyone really think most congressmen really relate to them when most are millionaires ... so, you get lip service from them.

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Response to DJ13 (Reply #69)

Thu Dec 20, 2012, 08:20 PM

105. For Wall Street,

two party government means "Heads I win tails you lose."

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Response to RKP5637 (Reply #34)

Fri Dec 21, 2012, 12:38 PM

124. Romney would not have gotten away with cutting Social Security or Medicare.

Democrats would have stopped him, just as they stopped Bush.

Democrats will not stop Obama, though.

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Response to leveymg (Reply #6)

Fri Dec 21, 2012, 12:36 PM

123. He's probably correct on that.

He just got re-elected, didn't he? And a lot of people who complained about him for four years or more voted for him for the second time.

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Response to MannyGoldstein (Original post)

Thu Dec 20, 2012, 12:45 PM

7. The President has started an internecine war within the Democratic party.

He often deals directly with Republican leadership then uses the whips or Biden to get everyone in line to go along with it.

Not a bad tactic unless, as has happened over the last few years, Democratic representatives have been at odds with the deals the President has been "negotiating".

Great way to rip apart the party from within and excellent way to depress Democratic voter turnout in general. This goes way beyond Third Way ideology into a territory I don't think anyone would have reasonably thought possible back in the 90's, say.

PB

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Response to Poll_Blind (Reply #7)

Thu Dec 20, 2012, 12:52 PM

10. Maybe it's a deliberate strategy

to drive out the meddlesome "purists".

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Response to jsr (Reply #10)

Thu Dec 20, 2012, 01:01 PM

13. Gotta watch out with that strategy

It backfired badly when he used it on Elizabeth Warren.

She's b-a-a-a-a-a-a-c-k!

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Response to Poll_Blind (Reply #7)

Thu Dec 20, 2012, 01:20 PM

20. Hillary will be running on bad Party branding

Interesting

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Response to Poll_Blind (Reply #7)

Fri Dec 21, 2012, 12:40 PM

125. I think the war started long ago.

Sadly, I don't think this is about Obama.

ETA. Meaning, if it were about only Obama, it would end in 2016. The Party has been at war with itself a long time. Many Democrats are just waking up to that now, although quite a few spotted it during the Clinton years.

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Response to MannyGoldstein (Original post)

Thu Dec 20, 2012, 12:46 PM

8. yeh, I've had it too

but it's the hoser I'm sick of

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Response to MannyGoldstein (Original post)

Thu Dec 20, 2012, 12:48 PM

9. yes i am

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Response to MannyGoldstein (Original post)

Thu Dec 20, 2012, 12:54 PM

11. I must not be. I keep voting for DINOs

and keep being surprised when they screw people over.


Thanks for asking though

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Response to Doctor_J (Reply #11)

Fri Dec 21, 2012, 12:44 PM

126. No one else is allowed to run.

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Response to MannyGoldstein (Original post)

Thu Dec 20, 2012, 12:58 PM

12. That's not what I'm sick of.

Nope. I'm sick of something else, entirely.

Why don't you tell us exactly what it is that you're sick of? I'm sick of posts that contain no content. Be specific, Manny, and lay it out for us. Don't make us guess. Who is "hosing" you? How are you being "hosed?" What are you planning to do to get out of this "hosing," exactly?

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Response to MineralMan (Reply #12)

Thu Dec 20, 2012, 02:35 PM

42. Corporate profits are at an all time high

Meanwhile income for average Americans has been flat since 1972 or so while American productivity has continued to climb.

And yet here we are talking about austerity and cutting SS, Obama is either deliberately scaring and inflaming the powerless who depend on entitlements or he is serious.

You are a very intelligent person I have little doubt that you'll be able to make the connection.

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Response to Fumesucker (Reply #42)

Thu Dec 20, 2012, 02:46 PM

49. Are you Manny?

If not, you can't answer my question. I was asking Manny.

I've seen your graph. It's interesting and indicates an imbalance. Did you think I did not know about that? Surely not. That flattening began during Ronald Reagan's administration, and has not yet been corrected. Was that what you were trying to point out?

But, you are not Manny, and cannot answer my question to him.

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Response to MineralMan (Reply #49)

Thu Dec 20, 2012, 02:55 PM

53. Tsk, tsk..

Touchy are we?

This is a discussion board, if you don't want to have a discussion then refrain from posting because I'm going to reply to any public post that I wish.

We have had three Democratic administrations in the course of that graph and are heading into a fourth with no evidence that the slope of the lines is going to change except for the worse.

That's the middle class and poor getting hosed, big time.





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Response to Fumesucker (Reply #53)

Thu Dec 20, 2012, 04:40 PM

86. x2. Thanks for speaking up so clearly and forcefully,

 

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Response to Fumesucker (Reply #53)

Thu Dec 20, 2012, 07:35 PM

103. You're always welcome to reply.

I will respond, of course.

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Response to MineralMan (Reply #103)

Thu Dec 20, 2012, 07:51 PM

104. Take off, Hoser





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Response to MineralMan (Reply #49)

Thu Dec 20, 2012, 11:14 PM

110. If you want to have a tete a tete with Manny, we understand, but do it via private message. nm

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Response to Fumesucker (Reply #42)

Thu Dec 20, 2012, 06:23 PM

100. Thank you for posting the graph.

(face directed at the graph, not at you)

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Response to MineralMan (Reply #12)

Thu Dec 20, 2012, 03:03 PM

56. Please alert me when you add to your post

Otherwise how can I know that you added a question?

I'm on a phone now, tough to type long stuff. Will respond later.

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Response to MannyGoldstein (Original post)

Thu Dec 20, 2012, 01:04 PM

14. What's the alternative?

...

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Response to Jim Warren (Reply #14)

Fri Dec 21, 2012, 12:47 PM

128. None, as long as you think that way.

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Response to merrily (Reply #128)

Fri Dec 21, 2012, 01:02 PM

133. Typical snark

Ask a legitimate question, get a one liner response that in no way offers anything back nor toward the larger issue posed by the OP. No wonder nothing gets done and things are stagnate.

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Response to MannyGoldstein (Original post)

Thu Dec 20, 2012, 01:06 PM

15. We need to get money out of political campaigns, as much as is possible.


As long as Big Money is around to bribe politicians, we can always expect them to try to sell us out.

It's a never-ending battle doing the people's work.

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Response to reformist2 (Reply #15)

Thu Dec 20, 2012, 01:21 PM

21. Totally agree. See my post further down!

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Response to reformist2 (Reply #15)

Fri Dec 21, 2012, 12:53 PM

129. What is your plan B because getting money out of politics will never happen.

It would require at least one constitutional amendment, which would be very difficult to draft.

If one could be drafted successfully, it would then have to make it out of a Congress that likes things just as they are.

And then it would have to be ratified by two thirds of the states.

No constitutional amendment that is even slightly controversial has passed those two hurdles since the Eisenhower administration. For instance, an amendment saying only that women have equal rights has failed to get ratified and is still floating in amendment limbo, like so many other attempted amendments.

Oh, and opening up the Constitution for one amendment often results in about forty other things getting tagged on to the proposed amendment. Do you really want that nowadays?



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Response to MannyGoldstein (Original post)

Thu Dec 20, 2012, 01:06 PM

16. Yes. But I expect it from Republicans. WHO is president again??

 

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Response to forestpath (Reply #16)

Thu Dec 20, 2012, 02:27 PM

35. "WHO is president again??"

A Reagan Republican...who ran as a Democrat.

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Response to FiveGoodMen (Reply #35)

Fri Dec 21, 2012, 12:54 PM

130. IMO, he is to the right of Reagan.

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Response to merrily (Reply #130)

Fri Dec 21, 2012, 04:32 PM

138. I certainly wouldn't argue with that.

We so desperately needed someone to the left of ... of damn near everyone in America's current policital scene.

We so needed a different candidate for the White House.

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Response to MannyGoldstein (Original post)

Thu Dec 20, 2012, 01:08 PM

17. Manny, masochism is an acquired habit

the way cat food is an acquired taste.

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Response to jsr (Reply #17)

Thu Dec 20, 2012, 04:43 PM

89. Has anyone conducted comparisons with taste tests?

 

It might be helpful.

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Response to MannyGoldstein (Original post)

Thu Dec 20, 2012, 01:17 PM

19. K&R! We have seen a good indication of how far the powers that be are willing to go to protect their

interests with the OWS movement. They bribed the NY police officers with a 20 million donation to their retirement fund. That is why the white shirted supervisors pepper sprayed those women who were already corralled by the blue shirted rank and file. Our two political parties in D.C.bare just like the Harlem Globbetrotters and the Washington Generals. They are both owned by the same people. The mistake most make is that they believe we stand a chance or have a say in what happens. Recently they pushed too hard too fast and nakedly showed their goals with Rmoney. Then Obama looks better by comparison. The only problem is, he is one of them! Don't believe me, ask the victims of the BP oil spill! There never was 20 billion in a fund. Obama needed this off of his back before the mid-terms. Currently, the Judge is doing his best to shove every claim in a rigged "Class Action" settlement agreement written by BP. Meanwhile, Gulf seafood is dying.
As long as they do it incrementally, and keep us divided over B.S. issues, we will not get enough of the ignorant bastards off of their couches and away from Fox Noise and the other corporate media to get our government back! The only issue right now should be complete campaign finance reform. Until we have that, we have nothing but bad! DU should only focus it's efforts on this issue until it happens. I'll keep dreaming of Representative Democracy and what that would be like b/c I don't think it will happen in my lifetime!

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Response to MannyGoldstein (Original post)

Thu Dec 20, 2012, 01:22 PM

22. As tired of that as I am...

... the lying liars that blindly defend the SOS out of some sort of twisted "party loyalty."

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Response to MannyGoldstein (Original post)

Thu Dec 20, 2012, 01:24 PM

23. YES !!! - This "Good Cop/Bad Cop" Bullshit Out Of D.C. Is Making Me Ill !!! - K & R !!!



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Response to MannyGoldstein (Original post)

Thu Dec 20, 2012, 01:27 PM

24. Of course

but they know, all politicians that is, there isn't a damn thing you will do about it.

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Response to Jim Warren (Reply #24)

Thu Dec 20, 2012, 01:28 PM

25. Maybe that should change.

Let's think about how to do that.

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Response to MannyGoldstein (Original post)

Thu Dec 20, 2012, 01:31 PM

26. I like the Progressive Caucus but the rest of the Democrats seem pretty corporate and useless to me.


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Response to MannyGoldstein (Original post)

Thu Dec 20, 2012, 01:32 PM

27. I forgot to add, how many of the 1% went to jail, wait, how many were indicted for

The housing bubble and the mess we are in. Who is calling for Glass/Steagal (sp)? How is the war crimes investigation going for lying us into war where the 1% made off like the bandits they are? When their are people (used loosely to include corporations), who are above the law, we no longer have a Democracy! I get tired of the people who believe in the Big Lie but call themselves Democrats, Progressives, or Liberals. I will admit to my own failings b/c I sometimes forget myself that this is not real until they pull the curtain back again like Obama is doing now! Please, I beg of you, recognize what is truly going on and wake the fu*k up! I promise not to forget again. The following will be my response to everything from now on!

CAMPAIGN FINANCE REFORM!!!

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Response to MannyGoldstein (Original post)

Thu Dec 20, 2012, 01:39 PM

28. Here's something I don't get....

Remember when the Healthcare debate was raging and many of us were insistent that Obama get more involved and actually negotiate and use his resources as president to get in the thick of things? And we were told repeatedly "He's the president! He's not congress. He can't negotiate. That's their job. All he can do is either sign or veto legislation. Why don't you all understand how government works?!?!?"

So o.k.......then why is he the one negotiating now? Why isn't it Harry Reid and John Boehner? Why isnt it Nancy Pelosi and John Boehner? Did the way government works change since the Healthcare debate and nobody told me? Is the president now all of a sudden the one who has to negotiate?

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Response to MannyGoldstein (Original post)

Thu Dec 20, 2012, 01:41 PM

29. No, I don't get you.

Do you realize how diverse the needs and concerns of the folks here are. Do you have any idea how challenging some of our lives actually are?

I'm not a fan of these types of expressions of despair that don't appear to have any meaningful, personal core. Is there something specific about your life that you're trying to relate to all of the hyperbole you're dropping here (lately)? I could relate to that.

Is this sympathy for folks out here truly being 'hosed' by the things you complain about? Is it support? It reads like you're angling to breed cynicism and generate more of your particular brand of political despair. Maybe not . . .

Politics and our legislative system of government will never be something you can take for granted. I wouldn't recommend 'tiring' if you hope to make any difference at all. As my old friend, Guy Washington used to say, 'Good always leaves, but bad comes to stay.'

We must care enough to involve ourselves in every instigation of democracy which confronts us. Our government is a reflection of everything we choose to neglect along with every cynical impulse we project. As the saying goes, "cynicism is a luxury."

Those in power who are motivated by greed will show up every day to collect their share, and ours as well. We cannot afford to turn away and let all of the negative influences have the floor to themselves. We have to come to grips with our individual responsibility to vigilance. We have to show up every day to make certain the government is representing all of the people; not just the corporate few who show up every day to collect our money. They will always fill the halls of Congress with their favors, bribes, and obstruction.

Through our virtue and our vigilance we must keep ourselves informed about those issues and concerns which we entrust to the bidding of those in Congress; and we must thoroughly involve ourselves in the process of resolving those issues and concerns in tandem with our legislators by challenging ourselves to read, watch and listen with a respect and a desire for understanding of differing views and opinions in our deliberation and debate. We shouldn't be discouraged or deterred from the essential exercise of our democracy by appeals to fear or cynicism.

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Response to bigtree (Reply #29)

Thu Dec 20, 2012, 03:14 PM

62. Thanks. You've given me new energy.

As I read the posts on DU i continue to learn more and more about how screwed up
so many things are.

I too, used to get disheartened by people at work who said - You shouldn't rock the boat -
and a whole lot of other things that said to me that they accepted that they would all die
in the salt mines.

Your post did me a lot of good. That's just the way things are. We need to continue to push and
prod in order to continue to accomplish what we can.

We also, need to keep a list of all the sucesses we've had in keeping a foreward movement to
becoming a better country, reelecting Obama and keeping the Teabags at bay.

there's a lot more to say but - Thanks for your efforts!

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Response to bigtree (Reply #29)

Thu Dec 20, 2012, 04:19 PM

81. yes, some of the folks here are worried about their trust funds & some are worried about their

 

social security.

how to parse that gap, i guess we'll cut social security.

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Response to bigtree (Reply #29)

Fri Dec 21, 2012, 04:33 PM

139. Did you write this?

Politics and our legislative system of government will never be something you can take for granted. I wouldn't recommend 'tiring' if you hope to make any difference at all. As my old friend, Guy Washington used to say, 'Good always leaves, but bad comes to stay.'

We must care enough to involve ourselves in every instigation of democracy which confronts us. Our government is a reflection of everything we choose to neglect along with every cynical impulse we project. As the saying goes, "cynicism is a luxury."

Those in power who are motivated by greed will show up every day to collect their share, and ours as well. We cannot afford to turn away and let all of the negative influences have the floor to themselves. We have to come to grips with our individual responsibility to vigilance. We have to show up every day to make certain the government is representing all of the people; not just the corporate few who show up every day to collect our money. They will always fill the halls of Congress with their favors, bribes, and obstruction.

Through our virtue and our vigilance we must keep ourselves informed about those issues and concerns which we entrust to the bidding of those in Congress; and we must thoroughly involve ourselves in the process of resolving those issues and concerns in tandem with our legislators by challenging ourselves to read, watch and listen with a respect and a desire for understanding of differing views and opinions in our deliberation and debate. We shouldn't be discouraged or deterred from the essential exercise of our democracy by appeals to fear or cynicism.


When you use other peoples writings, you should give them credit:
http://www.opednews.com/articles/opedne_ron_full_061022_in_our_own_hands.htm

It appears you've used this author's work several times over the past few years and only attributed these specific paragraphs to him once. It gives one the impression they're actually your words, when in fact they are not.

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Response to Oilwellian (Reply #139)

Fri Dec 21, 2012, 05:10 PM

141. I'm Ron Fullwood

name's in my journal and in numerous posts(archives)

And, yes, that is a revised excerpt from my 2004 book, 'Power of Mischief': Military Industry Executives are Making Bush Policy and the Country is Paying the Price

And that is very much my own writing. It is, in fact, the preface for my book.

I also wrote 261 articles for OpEd News : http://www.opednews.com/author/author176.html


Oh, yeah . . . HA!

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Response to bigtree (Reply #141)

Fri Dec 21, 2012, 05:25 PM

142. This ^

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Response to bigtree (Reply #141)

Fri Dec 21, 2012, 05:26 PM

143. Well I'll be

I've never seen you use your real name before. Your journal post appears to just be a copy and paste of the original OpEdNews post. How odd that you write mainly about Iraq and Afghanistan, yet still find time to continually mock little old us on a discussion board. Very very odd.

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Response to Oilwellian (Reply #143)

Fri Dec 21, 2012, 05:36 PM

144. well, Oilwellian

I came to DU out of concern over the Bush push into Iraq and have literally grown as a writer here at DU.

I wonder how you'd manage here, just with folks who agree with you all of the time. Who would you bait?

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Response to bigtree (Reply #144)

Fri Dec 21, 2012, 05:48 PM

145. There was no baiting

I didn't know you were Don Fullwood and was merely protecting the integrity of your own words. LOL You're a very good writer and seem to have a good grasp of things, except when it comes to Obama. Your worship of him, IMHO, is way over the top and myopic.

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Response to Oilwellian (Reply #145)


Response to Oilwellian (Reply #145)

Fri Dec 21, 2012, 11:24 PM

147. you're altogether focused on my posts, which are certainly pro-Obama (my choice)

. . .but you're a bit 'myopic' yourself if you think that posts here are a true and accurate measure of what folks here feel, think, and believe. We have many more dimensions than what we choose to post on the internet.

So, I choose to focus on the more positive aspects of the administration. So what? Isn't there more than enough criticism here? The need I find that I can fill is to try and represent the administration's position. Why wouldn't you want to get an accurate picture of the President's intentions and actions? At any rate, it's a direction I've deliberately chosen; much of the reason having to do with over-the-top, nonfactual posts like this op.

I'd think you'd be clever enough to see that the core of what I believe went into my most public expressions (the articles and the book) and DU is used by me as a more inconsequential outlet. Don't fall into the trap of believing that folks here can be credibly defined by the tit-for-tat posting here on this internet message board. You MUST be smarter than that.

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Response to Oilwellian (Reply #145)

Fri Dec 21, 2012, 11:38 PM

148. and, it's Ron, not Don - nt.

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Response to MannyGoldstein (Original post)

Thu Dec 20, 2012, 01:45 PM

30. Beyond sick. I've got one foot on solid ground but the other one on a banana peel

waiting for our illustrious officials to give me that last shove.

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Response to Cleita (Reply #30)

Thu Dec 20, 2012, 03:53 PM

74. That is an EXCELLENT way of putting it.

I feel exactly the same way.

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Response to MannyGoldstein (Original post)

Thu Dec 20, 2012, 01:47 PM

31. I'm sick of these wealthy sociopaths screwing us over every chance they get.

I'm really becoming convinced that money addiction and wealth hoarding is a mental disorder and should be classified as such.

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Response to Initech (Reply #31)

Thu Dec 20, 2012, 02:31 PM

37. Even if it is classified as such, guess who will defund treatment of it? n/t

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Response to MannyGoldstein (Original post)

Thu Dec 20, 2012, 01:49 PM

32. it never ends

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Response to MannyGoldstein (Original post)

Thu Dec 20, 2012, 02:30 PM

36. I will gladly tighten my belt just to make sure the looters making more than me pay their share

But I won't have to, because my side will give in to the fucking lunatics on the Republican side. Their side can hold out, no matter how long it takes, because the people buying their elections aren't hurting, they don't need SS or other entitlements (until they piss away all their money or suffer some extremely expensive health problem) and they don't think they should have to support anyone but themselves. Somehow our side caves every time.

I'll pay more just to make sure those fucks pay their share. I don't give a fuck if I eat bread every day, the game has to go back to normal, these leeches have to pay for the blood they let. I honestly can't understand how OWS - which was ignored until it couldn't be and which remained peaceful - is the only expression of outrage we've had on this gulf between us and them. I think it's time to throw a few bricks through a few windows.

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Response to MannyGoldstein (Original post)

Thu Dec 20, 2012, 02:32 PM

38. I'm with you. We the people are NOT being represented, special monied interests own our gov't. nt

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Response to MannyGoldstein (Original post)

Thu Dec 20, 2012, 02:32 PM

39. It will take concerted and long civil disobedience

And general strikes.

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Response to nadinbrzezinski (Reply #39)

Thu Dec 20, 2012, 02:37 PM

43. And intelligence and cleverness

I'm glad you're on our side!

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Response to MannyGoldstein (Reply #43)

Thu Dec 20, 2012, 02:38 PM

47. I will take leave from the strike

Someone has to report it.

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Response to nadinbrzezinski (Reply #47)

Thu Dec 20, 2012, 03:09 PM

59. Op Ed column? nt

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Response to MannyGoldstein (Reply #59)

Thu Dec 20, 2012, 03:27 PM

70. Could be.

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Response to MannyGoldstein (Original post)

Thu Dec 20, 2012, 02:33 PM

40. I am a socialist.

I am a socialist; a European/Canadian style social democrat. Think Old Labour in the UK or the New Democratic Party in Canada...or the New Deal era Democratic Party!

That gets me tarred and feathered verbally and online by all those for whom Joe McCarthy is on a pedestal. Rush Limbaugh and his ilk have poisoned the term, just as they have "liberal."

But to hell with them. I don't care.

I believe in universal, single-payer health care.

I believe in the right of workers to organise.

I am a Christian but don't believe my religion gives me or the government the right to make a decision for another person.

I believe that "employment-at-will" makes workers - human beings - a disposable commodity.

I believe that the DLC has been at best, a questionable influence on the Democratic Party, because it just tries to be "Repub lite;" no, we're not really liberals, we love God, Guns, Guts, Apple Pie and the Flag, just like the Republicans!

I would like to see Bernie Sanders' influence spread throughout the Democratic Party.

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Response to MannyGoldstein (Original post)

Thu Dec 20, 2012, 02:34 PM

41. Obama cares more about the views of a few CEOS than

about the people who elected him.

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Response to MannyGoldstein (Original post)

Thu Dec 20, 2012, 02:37 PM

44. I suppose you would rather have President Romney

or Gingrich, or Perry, or Bachmann, or Cain, or Huntsman, or Pawlenty... or any other Republican who would supposedly be SO much worse than Obama that Obama can't be criticized for even his worst policies and actions?


(sarcasm smiley needed?)

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Response to MNBrewer (Reply #44)

Thu Dec 20, 2012, 04:31 PM

83. maybe. we would at least then have the senate to protect us.....theyll roll over for obama

the would you rather have romeny argument is bullshit.

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Response to bowens43 (Reply #83)

Thu Dec 20, 2012, 06:20 PM

99. I agree, it's a terrible reason not to criticize Obama for bad things his administration does.

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Response to MannyGoldstein (Original post)

Thu Dec 20, 2012, 02:37 PM

45. Weren't you the pariah like two days ago?

And now you seem to be the prophet.

Personally, I'm waiting to see the final deal, if there is one, but the final outcome anyway. If Social Security takes a hit, you will be vidicated and everyone who made you the pariah leading up to it will owe you an apology.

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Response to ChisolmTrailDem (Reply #45)

Thu Dec 20, 2012, 03:07 PM

57. Manny's batting average is way above...

... ALL of his detractors. But don't expect that they will EVER admit to being wrong, much less apologize for it. It isn't in their DNA any more that it is the Freepers. Cognitive dissonance isn't just for Teapublicans anymore.

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Response to 99Forever (Reply #57)

Thu Dec 20, 2012, 03:16 PM

64. Well, his "I told you so" moment re: cuts to SocSec hasn't arrived quite yet. I am

hopeful that in the end SocSec will survive the chained CPI and any other cuts. Medicare/Medicaid also.

*Fingers crossed*

But if/when there are cuts, I expect those who denounced Manny's prediction, and whom also possess the necessary character, to offer their mea culpas.

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Response to ChisolmTrailDem (Reply #64)

Thu Dec 20, 2012, 03:24 PM

68. I was just recommending ...

... against holding your breath waiting for that to happen.

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Response to ChisolmTrailDem (Reply #45)

Thu Dec 20, 2012, 03:12 PM

61. Apologies not necessary

Respect would be nice.

Mostly, we need to get along and do the right thing together, as Democrats.

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Response to MannyGoldstein (Reply #61)

Thu Dec 20, 2012, 03:18 PM

66. Agreed. With all due respect, though, I hope you've been wrong. For obvious reasons.

And if your instincts are proven to be correct, I agree that we need to work together.

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Response to ChisolmTrailDem (Reply #66)

Thu Dec 20, 2012, 04:18 PM

80. All that I predicted is that Obama - and other Democrats - would try to cut Social Security

Not really a prediction, though - they were telling us that, loud and clear. The President, in particular, put all sorts of things into place that were clearly designed to force cuts - Simpson-Bowles, having Tim Geithner use fudged numbers to show that Social Security is not financially perfect, etc.

I hoped that I was wrong.

As to whether it will actually work, and SS will be cut - I don't think I've predicted anything other than it has a much better chance of getting cut once some Democrats are trying to do so. But there are a fair number of good Democrats who won't enable it, and people are getting increasingly upset now that they understand that "strengthening" is a code word for "handing the Trust Fund to the 1%", and there's finally some pushback.

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Response to MannyGoldstein (Original post)

Thu Dec 20, 2012, 02:37 PM

46. Whattaya gonna do about it, Manny?

I mean besides continue to attack the Prez at every turn, rumor, on a daily basis.

Starting to look a lot like some kind of chronic whining from here.

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Response to cliffordu (Reply #46)

Thu Dec 20, 2012, 02:53 PM

51. First off, I believe a more respectful tone from you

would be fitting, since my predictive track record's been pretty good - despite the abuse and whining I've received.

Second, I agree with the thrust of your statement that well done is better than well said. Now that many more Democrats know what we're really facing here, some movement may be possible.

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Response to MannyGoldstein (Reply #51)

Thu Dec 20, 2012, 02:54 PM

52. Well, sir, will you please answer the question?

what are you going to DO about it?

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Response to cliffordu (Reply #52)

Thu Dec 20, 2012, 03:00 PM

54. As I tried to allude (poorly)...

1. I don't know
2. I think that the time may have finally come when change can start
3. I'm thinking on it

Suggestions welcome.

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Response to MannyGoldstein (Original post)

Thu Dec 20, 2012, 02:43 PM

48. Why yes.

 

Now that you mention it. Yes I am.

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Response to MannyGoldstein (Original post)

Thu Dec 20, 2012, 02:47 PM

50. Have you been hosed?

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Response to WilliamPitt (Reply #50)

Thu Dec 20, 2012, 03:08 PM

58. Yes.

Less than many, more than some. (Details over steak dinner.)

You?

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Response to MannyGoldstein (Reply #58)

Thu Dec 20, 2012, 03:11 PM

60. By the "fiscal cliff" deal

that hasn't happened yet, I mean.

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Response to WilliamPitt (Reply #60)

Thu Dec 20, 2012, 04:52 PM

92. By that single issue? Well, I'm a nerd

and I look at life statistically.

The Social Security question is kind of like the Schrondinger's cat problem. I won't know if I'm hosed by the current actions until I retire. Until then, I'm hosed or not hosed but I don't know which. But I do know that the odds of my being hosed are increasing quickly due to recent actions.

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Response to MannyGoldstein (Reply #92)

Thu Dec 20, 2012, 05:04 PM

94. Hm.

Come on.

Your OP - and you last five OPs - have been about a deal that hasn't happened yet.

This OP is about that, in the end.

Don't be coy.

Be patient.

If you're right, you'll have plenty of time to crow about it.

And you'll have a steak to enjoy.

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Response to WilliamPitt (Reply #94)

Thu Dec 20, 2012, 05:18 PM

96. I believe that I only ever predicted that Obama would sign on to a proposal

which he has.

Further, I believe that this, in itself, is pretty bad. Tough to put toothpaste back in the tube. But yes, we don't know for sure: Schrodinger's austerity proposal.

Add it to the unceasing depression (for the 99% only, of course), NDAA, more "free" trade, bankers-uber-alles policies, corporate financial deregulation, capitulating on rolling back the Bush tax cuts or the wealthiest, proposing new taxes on the middle class...

Well, it's discouraging.

Do you think things are going well?

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Response to WilliamPitt (Reply #60)

Thu Dec 20, 2012, 05:49 PM

97. Sure it has. And most certainly we have been hosed.

We don't know the details yet, but we do know that we will get austerity. If there is no deal, there are automatic cuts.

We should not be slashing budgets in this economy in the first place. We were hosed re: the "fiscal cliff" as soon as Obama tolerated and validated the Shock Doctrine debt ceiling SCAM last spring that put all this garbage in motion.

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Response to MannyGoldstein (Original post)

Thu Dec 20, 2012, 03:18 PM

65. Right on brother.

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Response to MannyGoldstein (Original post)

Thu Dec 20, 2012, 03:23 PM

67. You better believe it. The only time I'm not sorry I voted for a Dem candidate for pres is when they

 

lose.

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Response to MannyGoldstein (Original post)

Thu Dec 20, 2012, 03:27 PM

71. No I want to get hosed one more time.

I'm getting use to it.

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Response to MannyGoldstein (Original post)

Thu Dec 20, 2012, 03:31 PM

72. Pro Sense

Put up a visual with the poll numbers yesterday.

84 percent of the population oppose cutting Social Security benefits.84 percent means Republicans are against this.

Why wouldn't they be? They have parents and grandparents don't they?

If a program can be put on the chopping block when it is this popular what is that telling us?

Obama and Bohner are "compromising" by cutting a program that both their bases support overwhelmingly.

So this is my point...I want to believe in Obama and the democratic party I want to believe there is a way out of this feudal nightmare we are being forced into.

But if an 84 percent approval rating for a program that does not add to the deficit and is solvent for another 30 years is not enough to prevent it from being put on the chopping block because of a deficit crisis, then what are we supposed to believe?

Except that both parties have abandoned the people and represent two haves of the one percent. The one half that is smart enough to know that they need to keep sprinkling crumbs our way so we don't revolt, and the other half who is too greedy and stupid to realize even that much.

I agree Manny I'm sick of it too. Way fucking sick of it.


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Response to Liberal1975 (Reply #72)

Thu Dec 20, 2012, 04:00 PM

75. Great post. nt

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Response to Liberal1975 (Reply #72)

Thu Dec 20, 2012, 05:06 PM

95. This should be an OP.

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Response to MannyGoldstein (Original post)

Thu Dec 20, 2012, 03:44 PM

73. when I voted for Obama the first time I foolishly imagined him using presidential power for good the

way Bush did for evil.

Instead, we got a president slightly to the right of Bush Sr, and who makes excuses about process for why he doesn't do what the people who voted him into office want.

But things that the rich want like trade deals, Wall Street bailouts, and drone strikes and covertly backing the overthrow of several foreign governments still happen at licketysplit speed.

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Response to MannyGoldstein (Original post)

Thu Dec 20, 2012, 04:03 PM

76. I'm sick of so-called Democrats bashing the President. nt

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Response to rivegauche (Reply #76)

Thu Dec 20, 2012, 04:17 PM

79. this is a discussion board, and usually people like to discuss what they are unhappy with

maybe we should start a cheerleading only forum for people who don't want to hear anything negative about Obama.

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Response to yurbud (Reply #79)

Thu Dec 20, 2012, 04:40 PM

87. "getting hosed at every turn" is not a basis for

mature discussion, it's absurd hyperbole.

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Response to rivegauche (Reply #76)

Thu Dec 20, 2012, 04:32 PM

84. wow. so if he's a democrat no problem if he lies to us?

pathetic.

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Response to bowens43 (Reply #84)

Thu Dec 20, 2012, 04:42 PM

88. Stop making up shit.

You don't know if he "lied" to us for fuck's sake. I think it's pathetic to expect him to be Santa Claus and grant your every wish. Grow up.

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Response to rivegauche (Reply #76)

Thu Dec 20, 2012, 04:44 PM

90. Well

I'm sick of voting for so-called democrats, so I guess we're even.

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Response to MannyGoldstein (Original post)

Thu Dec 20, 2012, 04:30 PM

82. yes, we were romneyed by obama.......

maybe the real romney would have been a better choice then this psudo-romney at least then there would be a chance to stop his bullshit in the senate

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Response to MannyGoldstein (Original post)

Thu Dec 20, 2012, 04:38 PM

85. Damn right I am

It's EVERYWHERE, and it's getting me sick.
In some ways, I almost wish the whole damn world would end tomorrow already, and get over with all the BS.

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Response to MannyGoldstein (Original post)

Thu Dec 20, 2012, 04:44 PM

91. Even if Obama caves completely, we are better off than if we had Rmoney

 

Yes I am pissed he caved so early - but there is literally nothing we could do

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Response to MannyGoldstein (Original post)

Thu Dec 20, 2012, 04:55 PM

93. Even if we're sinking in quicksand, it's better than being swallowed by a boa constrictor

 

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Response to MannyGoldstein (Original post)

Thu Dec 20, 2012, 05:50 PM

98. At the end of my rope with it.

I hope America is, too.

HUGE K&R

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Response to MannyGoldstein (Original post)

Thu Dec 20, 2012, 07:29 PM

101. Yes

Sick to death of it.

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Response to MannyGoldstein (Original post)

Thu Dec 20, 2012, 08:34 PM

106. Are you sick of eating crow over and over and over and over, MannyGoldstein?

I'm watching the GOP hang themselves, live on tv with the rope Obama gave them, and LOL at you.

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Response to tridim (Reply #106)

Thu Dec 20, 2012, 08:41 PM

107. ???

Can you be specific?

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Response to MannyGoldstein (Reply #107)

Fri Dec 21, 2012, 08:22 AM

111. Yes, you're wrong about everything.

Does that bother you in the least?

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Response to tridim (Reply #111)

Fri Dec 21, 2012, 04:07 PM

136. So name a few things.

Even one or two would be a good start. Actual quotes with links, please.

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Response to tridim (Reply #106)

Fri Dec 21, 2012, 08:29 AM

112. +100

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Response to MannyGoldstein (Original post)

Thu Dec 20, 2012, 10:06 PM

108. 3rd party / Indie ?Congressional 2 term limit?Cleansing of D's- I do not know but the choices have to

widen to avoid the hose
never say never

frustration often leads to new creations for a better solution

We need a mad as hell guy (for real) maybe
There should be some call soon with the present doings*
*ridiculous

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Response to MannyGoldstein (Original post)

Thu Dec 20, 2012, 10:21 PM

109. hell yes. if i were a plant I would have died already with to much hosing we are getting.

 

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Response to MannyGoldstein (Original post)

Fri Dec 21, 2012, 09:15 AM

113. Damn right. n/t

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Response to MannyGoldstein (Original post)

Fri Dec 21, 2012, 09:28 AM

114. I am sick of getting hosed by politicians at every turn.

I really don't get hosed with respect to the rest of my life. So, getting hosed by politicians, yes.

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Response to MannyGoldstein (Original post)

Fri Dec 21, 2012, 09:36 AM

115. Not me, Manny

I demand my fair share of abuse.

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Response to MannyGoldstein (Original post)

Fri Dec 21, 2012, 09:59 AM

116. Meanwhile, John Boehner lays weeping in a pool of his own sick.

Is this 0 for 6, or 0 for 7 now?

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Response to JoePhilly (Reply #116)

Fri Dec 21, 2012, 12:24 PM

122. +1. n/t

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Response to MannyGoldstein (Original post)

Fri Dec 21, 2012, 11:22 AM

117. Manny, short, bittersweet..I understand, and I thank you.

What we can do, as Democrats, Greens, Independents and the few remaining Republicans who get it, is missing in the comments. From Annie, "the sun will come out tomorrow"?

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Response to MannyGoldstein (Original post)

Fri Dec 21, 2012, 11:52 AM

118. The conservative card is the rich. The liberal card is the poor. It's a tough game.

I've been thinking about the bottom line. It appears that without having greed and fear on our side, we have an uphill battle.
One doesn't win in conditions like these without casualties. And the ones who are injured are the weak and powerless. It really sucks.
All I can say is, we have a streetwise president. He's taking these pale chumps for a ride.

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Response to MannyGoldstein (Original post)

Fri Dec 21, 2012, 12:07 PM

119. Disgust

Yes, I'm sick of it all. Look at the stock market today - down because our elected fools can not do their jobs. We have only inched forward since Obama was first elected and I blame mostly the republicans and especially their subversive tea party. Seething!!

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Response to gussmith (Reply #119)

Fri Dec 21, 2012, 12:55 PM

131. The investor class has done fine.

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Response to MannyGoldstein (Original post)

Fri Dec 21, 2012, 12:19 PM

121. Yes. I can't stand to see the Rethugs hosing us at every turn.

I think Obama and the Dems are doing a very good job, given what they've been stuck working with.

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Response to MannyGoldstein (Original post)

Fri Dec 21, 2012, 12:47 PM

127. It keeps feeling like they are pulling the rug out from under me

As I start to make a descent living, they eliminate my job.
There goes any pension I thought I was going to get when I started working.
There goes saving anything for retirement.
There goes affordable health care.

There goes retirement PERIOD!

They have been trying to get Social Security since it began, it sounds like they may actually take a big chunk out of this time.

It is almost like they want a nation of old people eating cat food. But have you priced cat food lately? I guess they want all the old people to just die.

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Response to MannyGoldstein (Original post)

Fri Dec 21, 2012, 12:57 PM

132. Could you please be more specific?

j/k

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Response to MannyGoldstein (Original post)

Fri Dec 21, 2012, 01:59 PM

134. Yep. nt

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Response to MannyGoldstein (Original post)

Fri Dec 21, 2012, 02:22 PM

135. K&R

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Response to MannyGoldstein (Original post)

Fri Dec 21, 2012, 04:09 PM

137. You had it the minute after Obama was declared the victor in 2008. This is nothing new. nt

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Response to MannyGoldstein (Original post)

Fri Dec 21, 2012, 04:37 PM

140. No, I gave up caring about it.

I promised myself I would never try and kick that dam football...I know Lucy is just going to pick it up at the last second...maybe I can rush in and fool her...here we go!!!

Wash, rinse and repeat...the familiarity of it (getting fucked over by 'my govt') now keeps me from losing my lunch.

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Response to MannyGoldstein (Original post)

Fri Dec 21, 2012, 11:43 PM

149. Please proceed, Manny.


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