General Discussion
Related: Editorials & Other Articles, Issue Forums, Alliance Forums, Region ForumsLet me throw some facts at you about this contrived crisis, the fiscal cliff.
There are some folks who are spreading disinformation about going over the fiscal cliff, claiming that going over the fiscal cliff will hurt the poor, take away food stamps and Medicare and such, that we would be sacrificing the poor if we don't do a deal now.
That is simply a lie, a complete and utterly stinking pile of cow manure.
Here are the facts:
Food stamps and Medicaid are shielded from sequestration, they will not be touched if we go over the fiscal cliff.
Medicare cuts will be cuts to providers, not patients.
The extension of the federal emergency extension of unemployment insurance is not part of the sequestration, but rather part of what is being put on, taken off, scrambled around the table of this grand bargain that is being foisted upon us. At this point we have no clue as to what is going to happen to it, but we do know that if it isn't part of the grand bargain, or if we do the smart thing and go off the cliff, Congress can take it in the new year, with a new Congress.
These cuts take place over a span of ten years, not all at once.
The various federal agencies are already considering putting off the sequestration cuts in order to allow the time and space for a new Congress to deal with these issues, so again, none of the sequestration cuts will take place right on January 2.
The only real issue that absolutely, positively has to be dealt with before the end of the year is the Alternative Minimum Tax patch. If that isn't dealt with, then the middle and upper middle class will be feeling some pain, not the poor and downtrodden.
Once again, we are seeing Third Way/DLC/neoliberal propaganda being spewed, trying to sacrifice all of our long term good for some short term, possible, maybe, gain for a few. They are trying to split liberals and the Democratic party, pitting the poor against the elderly. Don't fall for this propaganda bullshit.
Our best bet, for the poor, the elderly, all of us is, at this point, to go right off that cliff. Don't let anybody try to convince you otherwise.
Links:
http://money.cnn.com/2012/11/29/news/economy/fiscal-cliff-spending-cuts/index.html
http://articles.chicagotribune.com/2012-12-10/news/ct-met-food-stamps-20121210_1_food-stamps-supplemental-nutrition-assistance-program-food-pantries
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/United_States_fiscal_cliff
MotherPetrie
(3,145 posts)coalition_unwilling
(14,180 posts)whatchamacallit
(15,558 posts)Autumn
(44,686 posts)she received her food stamps and TANIF yesterday and will qualify for LEAP. People who run out of unemployment qualify for aid. People touting this part of the cliff are just spreading fear and disinformation.
Soar over the cliff.
Harmony Blue
(3,978 posts)so they assume the worst without having the information on hand.
1StrongBlackMan
(31,849 posts)report back on your neighbor on January 15th ... assuming there isn't a deal that reverses the Big S.
leftstreet
(36,064 posts)DURec
99Forever
(14,524 posts)Lasher
(27,472 posts)In that case taxpayers would have to file amended returns if the patch is extended after they file their 2012 taxes. I can think of no other downside to this scenario.
Harmony Blue
(3,978 posts)then people will see how sequestration works.
WillyT
(72,631 posts)WilliamPitt
(58,179 posts)K&R.
raouldukelives
(5,178 posts)Sadiedog
(353 posts)I heard from my work that we will lose 3 classrooms with sequestration. I work for Head Start!
ProudProgressiveNow
(6,127 posts)WhaTHellsgoingonhere
(5,252 posts)FiveGoodMen
(20,018 posts)And Thanks.
forestpath
(3,102 posts)abelenkpe
(9,933 posts)Pretty sure democrats that are arguing third way talking points are older and well off and will not be effected by third way policies.
octoberlib
(14,971 posts)me b zola
(19,053 posts)Myrina
(12,296 posts)John2
(2,730 posts)about the military cuts in the sequestrian. They are worried about cutting defense contractors and laying off defense workers. Along with the increased taxes, the sequestrian is worst for the GOP. President Obama promised the GOP would cave to defense people and he is more worried about them losing their jobs and becoming unemployed. The unemployement rate will rise due to the lost of defense jobs. Wall Street and the Defense Industry are very worried. That is why Romney said in the Debates, it was a bad deal for the GOP.
The Defense cuts gives the President a lot of leaverage on the GOP, but the problem is Obama doesn't seem to want to really cut back on the military. Seems like to me he wants to continue the neocon warmongering. You cut ther purser, then it will force the Democrats and Republicans to cut back on obligations to other countries. I think that is the wasteful spending and the sequestrian is a good thing. I'm waiting to see if the Republicans would really throw the Military Industrial Complex under the Bus?
grahamhgreen
(15,741 posts)The defense jobs would be better replaced by jobs in green energy - jobs that contribute to and do not drain the economy like war does.
In other words, when you build a windmill, it continually returns money into the economy in the form of electricity, when you build a bomb, it blows up and is gone.
grahamhgreen
(15,741 posts)Remember how they screamed the economy would collapse if we didn't do these deals?
Fact is it was the deals that cratered the stock market!
The cliff is the best deal Americans have on the table.
harun
(11,347 posts)Which is why it won't happen.
The American people are not in charge. The Corporations are and they want cuts to SS and Medicare, whcih is what they will get. If it doesn't improve Corporate profits, this Congress isn't going to waste their time discussing it.
mac56
(17,557 posts)Wellstone ruled
(34,661 posts)about the Wall Street induced hype. People are being pounded by the so called media about all of the false narratives,not a single piece of the real truth. Notice how all the amp up in the last week,who met with the Rethugs 10 days ago,answer,Loyd Blankfine. End of story.
Notice today's meeting at the White House of the big business honcho's was not attended by President Obama. Something tells me that our President has made up his mind and is calling out the fake cliff for what it is. Harry Reid in a remark earlier this morning has stated that Boners plan B stunt won't even be brought up in the Senate.
Our President is monitoring his twitter and e-mails by the actions and reactions he has taken in the last 72 hours. The man has moved on to bigger issues,like spending quality time with his family.
1StrongBlackMan
(31,849 posts)That's not what Pew says about U/C.
http://www.pewstates.org/research/reports/the-fiscal-cliff-and-unemployment-insurance-benefits-85899435199?p=4
Though they do say that the impact will vary among the states. When we go over the cliff we'll revert back to the fed/state sharing formula ... which will hurt the states with the highest unemployment rates.
And, look what else Pew says:
http://www.pewstates.org/research/reports/the-impact-of-the-fiscal-cliff-on-the-states-85899430339
So, we can pretend that going over the cliff is a "Shock Dotrine" cannard if we wish ... but doing so would not be based in fact. The most vulnerable amongst us WILL, as always, suffer immediately and the most.
progressoid
(49,758 posts)And states are already strapped for cash. Somebody is going to have to take a hit.
1StrongBlackMan
(31,849 posts)in the form of a chained CPI that would affect SS recipients over the course of 20 years ... if Conggress refuses to change the formula.
The Magistrate
(95,237 posts)"I believe it's time for me to fly...."
bluerum
(6,109 posts)dchill
(38,234 posts)PoliticalBiker
(328 posts)Off the cliff is the only way.
Fuck making a deal before then
Feed the r's their own bag of bullshit... see how they like it.
Obama.... DON'T YOU DARE FUCKING CAVE ON THIS!!!
octoberlib
(14,971 posts)ReRe
(10,597 posts)I am a PROGRESSIVELY LIBERAL DEMOCRAT. If I can go over the cliff with this much ease, I'm betting that others can too. Y'all need to take a break and get your breath. Have some spiked eggnog, or a draw yourself a glass of wine from the wine box, or brew a cup of pekoe, or a hot toddy. Something soothing, NOT black coffee. Grab a cold cloth, your drink, and ease into that easy chair, feet up, cold cloth on forehead. Take a big swig of your drink. Now RELAAAAAX. Let it all go. I'm not being condescending, I swear.
I know PO did or didn't do allot of things during his first term, and Rahm opened his big mouth and ridiculed us, and many didn't come out and vote in the midterm, (I did vote in 2010.) It was a rough first term. The economy was in the basement after 8 years of GW's cabal! But,that's all in the past. We have to go on, and realize it is a new day. Have a little faith. We mustn't listen to the propaganda...all this "cliff" business. "All we have to fear, is fear itself!" (FDR)
OK... everyone can come and beat me up now. Please don't kick too hard.
I'll just guzzle this beer to numb myself before you start in on me. Cheers!
bullwinkle428
(20,626 posts)of wing-nuts and Turd Wayers.
bananas
(27,509 posts)gollygee
(22,336 posts)But I see I already have.
So I'll just kick it.