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Thu Dec 20, 2012, 04:15 AM

You know what is crazy about the defense of AR 15

In civilian hands?

"They have no flash suppressor, they don't have a bayonet lug, they don't have a selector..." Enough already, with all these deficiencies, these weapons are fund around the world in actual combat zones.

I took care of really bad guys shot by the army (not the US Army) with FAL battle riffles. I aso took care of good guys shot by AR -15 type weapons. They share the same exact ammunition.

You know the crazy part, both sides had their weapons set in the same accurate fire, one by choice, the other by need.

So stop preaching. Christianne Ammampour mentioned she saw them in Bosnia. And in other places around the word.

Let me tell you something, the worst massacre I had the pleasure of tending to, was only five. It was still a war zone. So damn it, yes, I can picture the pools of blood, the coppery smell, the human waste they found, and the destroyed bodies. I can see them in my mind's eye. So please, those f you arguing but, but it s the most popular riffle...not just in the US...it is also quite popular in war zones.

So think about that when you make that...yes stupid, NRA talking point, derived argument.

If you have not noticed, many of us are tired of them, six rounds a second...100 minute. Enough is enough.

14 replies, 1837 views

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Replies to this discussion thread
Arrow 14 replies Author Time Post
Reply You know what is crazy about the defense of AR 15 (Original post)
nadinbrzezinski Dec 2012 OP
white_wolf Dec 2012 #1
kentauros Dec 2012 #4
nadinbrzezinski Dec 2012 #11
ProgressiveProfessor Dec 2012 #2
uponit7771 Dec 2012 #9
ProgressiveProfessor Dec 2012 #14
A HERETIC I AM Dec 2012 #3
JanMichael Dec 2012 #5
A HERETIC I AM Dec 2012 #8
nadinbrzezinski Dec 2012 #10
zappaman Dec 2012 #13
freshwest Dec 2012 #6
JanMichael Dec 2012 #7
nadinbrzezinski Dec 2012 #12

Response to nadinbrzezinski (Original post)

Thu Dec 20, 2012, 04:24 AM

1. They should be banned and all current ones seized under eminent domain.

We can claim they are needed for the military and get them all out of civilian hands. That goes for every other weapon designed solely for use on the battlefield.

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Response to white_wolf (Reply #1)

Thu Dec 20, 2012, 09:28 AM

4. I like that.

Another creative use of eminent domain. I'd like to see this tactic used on patent-squatters, too. Get useful patents out of the hands of corporations with no intent on developing the technology (think of the NiMh-battery patent Chevron is sitting on.)

Another idea would be to somehow get the weapons manufacturers to issue a product recall

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Response to white_wolf (Reply #1)

Thu Dec 20, 2012, 12:49 PM

11. Good luck

Won't happen. What should happen, and won't either, is putting these guns under the 1934 Gun Control Act. Yup, you can have them. The requirements are onerous. Quick, when was the last time a Tommy Gun was used in a crime in the United States, for that matter any other machine gun?

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Response to nadinbrzezinski (Original post)

Thu Dec 20, 2012, 04:28 AM

2. Not quite true

The FAL fires a .308 round, not a .223, which is more destructive, particularly if non FMJ rounds are being used.


See http://t3.gstatic.com/images?q=tbn:ANd9GcQyZ_MEtK9XwmzW3ar6xFoLoN5kQvW2llu1mCc3Y32MVZaitpS47y90OJ1JyA for a visual comparison

Semi auto is more accurate and save ammunition. Logistics matters to all parties in combat.

You also know that the ROF you cite is nonsense. Magazine changes and heating cut that down tremendously and even the real ROF is half that.

You have more than enough solid data to argue from, especially given your broad experiences. You hurt your case by citing falsehoods.



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Response to ProgressiveProfessor (Reply #2)

Thu Dec 20, 2012, 11:59 AM

9. REALLY?!!?!? Come on people,...the overall point is well taken .. we don't need nats ass perfect

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Response to uponit7771 (Reply #9)

Thu Dec 20, 2012, 07:59 PM

14. Nadin usually makes excellent points

However, like Rachel Maddow or others, when wrong statements or citations or made, it devalues what they say.

Given the high quality of her posts over the years, I kind of think she gets that.

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Response to nadinbrzezinski (Original post)

Thu Dec 20, 2012, 08:47 AM

3. Will you please, PLEASE stop spelling the word as "riffle"

The weapon is a "RIFLE" with one "F".

Riffle rhymes with piffle and sniffle.

Rifle rhymes with stifle and pie full.

You have been doing that a lot lately. It's getting annoying.

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Response to A HERETIC I AM (Reply #3)

Thu Dec 20, 2012, 09:33 AM

5. You haven't added a thing to the discussion. Will you please, PLEASE stop

being so condescending?

You have been doing that a lot lately. It's getting annoying.

Seriously, get another cuppa coffee and edit or delete your spelling police post, and I'll delete this.

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Response to JanMichael (Reply #5)

Thu Dec 20, 2012, 11:54 AM

8. Ummmmm.... No

Nadine offers her expertise on a wide variety of subjects. It does nothing for her credibility to CONTINUOUSLY misspell the word "rifle" , particularly whe she is attempting to speak with some authority.

Pointing out to someone that they are repeatedly misspelling a word is not being condescending. It's being helpful.

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Response to A HERETIC I AM (Reply #8)

Thu Dec 20, 2012, 12:46 PM

10. Having an issue with spelling

Last edited Thu Dec 20, 2012, 01:33 PM - Edit history (1)

Oh my.

It takes away from the credibility? To point out what they do if the word of the precious is misspelled? You do know there is this thing called dyslexia right?

Oh and won't call you on the misspelling on your post about my name...I consider spelling calls impolite...to put it mildly, since you or I really do not know if that is lack of knowledge (how my name is spelled) or an actual disability.

What you alluded to is the misspelling that increases with stress among mild dyslexics.

Congrats for being petty.

Don't worry, my actual submitted work is spell checked and it s edited. A three in the morning piece, while waiting for husband, after watching Piers Morgan call gun nutters liars on national tv, not so much.

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Response to nadinbrzezinski (Reply #10)

Thu Dec 20, 2012, 01:28 PM

13. Actually, what takes away from your credibility is not only the fact you can't spell

but also the padding of your resume...
"Been in enough shoot outs to fill nightmares."
http://www.democraticunderground.com/?com=view_post&forum=1002&pid=1996780

and the fact you can't do simple math.
"six rounds a second...100 minute"

you are a joke.

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Response to nadinbrzezinski (Original post)

Thu Dec 20, 2012, 09:34 AM

6. Thanks for giving voice to this. America needs to become self-aware of what we're making here.

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Response to freshwest (Reply #6)

Thu Dec 20, 2012, 09:36 AM

7. I wasn't even aware of this

until I read this post. Everyone needs to see it. Horrifying.

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Response to JanMichael (Reply #7)

Thu Dec 20, 2012, 01:19 PM

12. Mexico for example, has very strict gun laws

You could get a pellet gun at the store. You can buy a starters gun, like the one used at the Olympics.

To get a revolver or a hunting riffle the background checks and the rest are intensive, and it is registered. Every time you buy ammo legally, it is traced.

So how did the cartels get their over 100,000 rifles alone? This is the last time i bothered to look at the stats, probably higher. The US market, as badly as fast and furious went, and was designed...it was an attempt to stop the "Carmino de hormigas.."

It's illegal to bring a gun into Mexico, but most of the cartels do such regularly one and two at a time

Here is a border anecdote that is symptomatic.

We took a patient to the border, early in the war on drugs. US media was filming the drug bust at the checkpoint. The federal authorities on the other side were showing a captured weapons cache to the Mexican media.

So yes, the bad guys do have these things in Mexico, primarily they are getting them in the US, legally mind you. Gun shows are great places for that. They are very legal until they cross the border. Some, gasp I know, are even converted into full automatics by cartel gunsmiths.

Oh and our national forests, where they are now growing some of the Marihuana, are at times guarded by people with these guns, semi for the most part. So the police has to do what the army in Mexico does.

Second A absolutists luuuve to bring fast and Furious. It was an attempt to fulfill the Mexican government's demands that this selling of these guns stops. They actually blame the NRA for a large part of the black market down there...it is also a source of great conflict.

I hate to say it, but the people in charge of national security down there, we have an AWB, they will actually start to see the light at the end of the tunnel.

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