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Thu Dec 20, 2012, 12:45 AM

The Fiscal Cliff is real for those who will lose their food stamps

or unemployment insurance or other benefits including cuts to Medicare. This will happen in a few weeks. It is part of the sequester. Yet many here seem to be willing to let other people's children go hungry so they can win some imagined partisan ideological victory. That's not what being a liberal or progressive is about.

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Reply The Fiscal Cliff is real for those who will lose their food stamps (Original post)
One of the 99 Dec 2012 OP
Melinda Dec 2012 #1
One of the 99 Dec 2012 #2
Melinda Dec 2012 #5
stopbush Dec 2012 #8
Melinda Dec 2012 #10
coalition_unwilling Dec 2012 #86
stopbush Dec 2012 #205
One of the 99 Dec 2012 #11
Melinda Dec 2012 #19
One of the 99 Dec 2012 #21
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One of the 99 Dec 2012 #43
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HiPointDem Dec 2012 #217
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still_one Dec 2012 #3
One of the 99 Dec 2012 #4
RKP5637 Dec 2012 #38
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CrispyQ Dec 2012 #62
RKP5637 Dec 2012 #67
coalition_unwilling Dec 2012 #99
RKP5637 Dec 2012 #131
2naSalit Dec 2012 #6
One of the 99 Dec 2012 #12
0rganism Dec 2012 #7
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Response to One of the 99 (Original post)

Thu Dec 20, 2012, 12:53 AM

1. Can you explain what the fiscal cliff and losing foodstamps have in common?

I obviously missed something, TIA.

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Response to Melinda (Reply #1)

Thu Dec 20, 2012, 12:56 AM

2. Part of the fiscal cliff is the sequestration

which make severe cuts in many programs including food stamps. So if we go off the cliff many will lose their food stamps in 2 weeks. Which means in 2 weeks many of the most vunerable won't be able to feed themselves or their families.

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Response to One of the 99 (Reply #2)

Thu Dec 20, 2012, 01:06 AM

5. I hear what you're saying, but it won't be quite like you suggest.

IF cuts are made to SNAP, changes would be not take place immediately... the program R&R's would have to be administratively rewritten and formulation of eligibility and subsidy amounts recalculated. Any person currently receiving SNAP benefits must be administratively notified of any changes to benefits at least ten days in advance, and that party has the legal right to appeal those changes (benefits must remain the same while the appeals process is in motion - generally about 6-8 weeks.

Regardless, I understand your apprehension. Many of us are just so right now.

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Response to Melinda (Reply #5)

Thu Dec 20, 2012, 01:20 AM

8. I am currently receiving Fed extended unemployment benefits in CA, adminstered through EDD.

I was notified by letter earlier this month that my Fed benefits will end at the end of this month (December) unless new legislation is passed to sustain the benefits. In fact, I received the last check scheduled for my current extended claim yesterday, so my benefits are effectively over as of this week.

Apparently, no time is necessary for these changes to take place. They're scheduled to happen for everybody in about two weeks, and I have been so notified.

Were Congress to pass another UI bill quickly, I might qualify for another round of Fed extended benefits.

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Response to stopbush (Reply #8)

Thu Dec 20, 2012, 01:41 AM

10. Different program, different rules and regulations.

You received timely notifications re your benefits, however UI programs differ from the SNAP program. Snap applications are certified for a full year, and recipients, like those receiving EDD benefits, must be timely notified. It's the actual time period and then the right to appeal changes that differ between the programs. Both are administrative, both are governed by admin law, but the structure and administration of the programs are different.

FWIW, I know exactly how you feel. I went thru the same back in 2008, and wasn't one of those fortunate enough to get any extension. Tough times indeed. Here's hoping and praying your benefits continue, that you find a job, that our President fixes this mess and fixes it the right way.

Best of luck and good wishes.
-Melinda

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Response to stopbush (Reply #8)

Thu Dec 20, 2012, 10:37 AM

86. I lost my eligibility for the extended benefits back in May, 2012, when CA no longer qualified for

 

the fifth and final extension, the so-called Fed-Ed extension. IIRC, I received about 2 weeks' notice. Fortunately, I had savings and retirement accounts upon which to draw. But I will be keeping my fingers crossed for you.

BTW, I'm on page 1050 of 'Reclaiming History' now (Devastating to the pro-conspiracy folks.)

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Response to coalition_unwilling (Reply #86)

Thu Dec 20, 2012, 01:33 PM

205. Reclaiming History is a devastating read indeed.

I just assume the CTists who knock it haven't read it, as all of their fav CTs are utterly destroyed in that book.

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Response to Melinda (Reply #5)

Thu Dec 20, 2012, 08:36 AM

11. Yes it will.

Many have already been notified of the loss or cuts in benefits starting at the beginning of the year.

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Response to One of the 99 (Reply #11)

Thu Dec 20, 2012, 08:50 AM

19. Sorry, but not necessarily with SNAP benefits. You are ignorant of the law, I get this.

But this isn't how the Food Stamp (SNAP) program works. Only notifications going out at this time are re-certs, or Notices of Action re eligibility changes as a result of income, household costs (standard deductions for heating/electricity/phone) or family composition. The changes you speak of are still in discussions (pending legislation). No changes to the SNAP program can be made and entered into the Federal Register until such time as prospective proposals (pending legislation) becomes law. Then and only then can the Federal Rules and Regulations be implemented and SNAP benefits impacted (changed). There has been no legislation passed, there are no pending changes to the SNAP program at this time.

To be clear - we are talking Food Stamp benefits, not Unemployment.

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Response to Melinda (Reply #19)

Thu Dec 20, 2012, 08:53 AM

21. Go back and re-read the sequestration

You're the one who's ignorant of the reality of the situation not me. You're talking about the normal process. But that doesn't apply here. The sequestration cuts are immediate.

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Response to One of the 99 (Reply #21)

Thu Dec 20, 2012, 08:53 AM

22. Post it, please. I'd like to see the law you believe applies.

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Response to One of the 99 (Reply #43)

Thu Dec 20, 2012, 09:26 AM

50. Thanks, I'll peruse it at work. Clock is ticking, and I have to run for now.

Appreciate the link, talk later. Have a groovy day.

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Response to One of the 99 (Reply #21)

Fri Dec 21, 2012, 06:00 AM

217. You're misinformed.

 

A number of key mandatory programs are exempt from sequestration, including Social Security, Medicaid, CHIP, SNAP (formerly known as the Food Stamp Program), child nutrition, Supplemental Security Income (SSI), refundable tax credits such as the Earned Income Tax Credit, veterans' benefits, and federal retirement.

http://www.cbpp.org/cms/index.cfm?fa=view&id=3557

The exemptions occur because the Budget Control Act is drafted as a portion of the Balanced Budget and Emergency Deficit Control of Act of 1985 (BBEDCA), which contains a list of exemptions in section 255 and a list of special rules in section 256. Those two provisions of BBEDCA were most recently updated by the Statutory PAYGO Act of 2010, and are not changed in any way by the Budget Control Act.

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Response to One of the 99 (Reply #2)

Thu Dec 20, 2012, 01:33 PM

206. I thought food stamps were exempt from sequestration

Most low income programs are, although not all. Some, like LIHEAP, are not.

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Response to One of the 99 (Original post)

Thu Dec 20, 2012, 12:57 AM

3. The cliff will force them to do something and if it doesn't then I suspect a lot of congress will be

Looking for a new job

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Response to still_one (Reply #3)

Thu Dec 20, 2012, 12:59 AM

4. Seething???

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Response to still_one (Reply #3)

Thu Dec 20, 2012, 09:06 AM

38. Most of congress should be fired for incompetency and also not representing

"we the people." Congress is a millionaires' club for egos and pursuing ones personal interests, certainly not all, but many ... and many are over impressed with their mediocre achievements.

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Response to RKP5637 (Reply #38)

Thu Dec 20, 2012, 09:39 AM

57. Can't disagree with you there. nt

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Response to RKP5637 (Reply #38)

Thu Dec 20, 2012, 10:07 AM

62. The problem:



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Response to CrispyQ (Reply #62)

Thu Dec 20, 2012, 10:15 AM

67. Exactly!!! And yet Americans keep voting them back into power ... because as some have

said, many Americans think they are just temporarily embarrassed non-millionaires, that their big reward is just around the corner. This, is a nation in serious need of some serious therapy.

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Response to RKP5637 (Reply #67)

Thu Dec 20, 2012, 10:45 AM

99. Technical note: I believe the phrase 'temporarily embarrassed millionaires' may have originated with

 

the writer John Steinbeck, although its provenance is disputed. Steinbeck indisputably used the phrase 'temporarily embarrassed capitalist."

http://en.wikiquote.org/wiki/John_Steinbeck

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Response to coalition_unwilling (Reply #99)

Thu Dec 20, 2012, 11:11 AM

131. Thanks!!!

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Response to One of the 99 (Original post)

Thu Dec 20, 2012, 01:12 AM

6. Isn't the

"fiscal cliff" the vernacular term for the sequestration?

Even so, I am on food stamps but I have been preparing for the "cliff" and stocking up on some things so I can get through the first few weeks of it should that come to pass.

I suspect it will happen but a lot of people don't realize that not all of these draconian cuts have to take place on 1/1/13. There are some remedies that many don't consider...

1. The biggest thing that will happen is the major cuts in defense spending, since we spend 2/3 more than the DoD actually needs, that's a plus. It would save us billions on day one.

2. The President has the power of Executive Order and he can use this power to extend some of these social safety net programs for an amount of time sufficient to allow the newly elected member of Congress to take office and pass some Bills to replace the tax structure and other remedies necessary.

3. With the newly elected Congress, the R's will be significantly weakened... frankly I don't know why anyone would consider trying to get anything accomplished with this totally useless crowd of obstructionists, just because the term is ending doesn't mean these leopards will suddenly change their spots and get something worthwhile accomplished.

I might take a brief hit, and I don't have any cash saved up, but I would rather wait for the newly elected Congress on 1/3/13 to come to work as I think we all have a better chance anticipating that they will be different... not so many TPs and more Dems in the Senate and the potential for rule changes on day one in the Senate that will make it tough to obstruct everything that is introduced. And maybe even a new Speaker in the House.

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Response to 2naSalit (Reply #6)

Thu Dec 20, 2012, 08:39 AM

12. Number 2 is just not true.

The President does not have the power to do that. Congress holds the purse strings. Now you may have prepared for this but most others have not or could not. In the end you're asking other people's children to go hungry to stand up for your principles.

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Response to One of the 99 (Original post)

Thu Dec 20, 2012, 01:19 AM

7. so you think the GOP house is going to extend foodstamps and UI?

Hell, they're already trying to slash funding for hurricane Sandy relief. Their entire MO is "partisan ideological victory", and they win over and over again because we never seem to have the guts to say "NO".

The chained-CPI is a bad deal. The president and Democrats will be in a stronger bargaining position in January, when we can propose cutting taxes instead of merely preserving W's tax cuts. Many of the people on this forum understand this, and want him to negotiate from a position of strength instead of bending over backwards to eke some half-hearted ghost of a concession from the GOP.

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Response to 0rganism (Reply #7)

Thu Dec 20, 2012, 08:43 AM

15. They have in the past.

And it is part of the current package. You're talking about a partisan political win. But the reality is that millions will suffer, not in 20 years, but in two weeks if a deal is not made.

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Response to One of the 99 (Original post)

Thu Dec 20, 2012, 01:34 AM

9. People who are young and unemployed will get jobs eventually.

We who are older have been there ourselves -- "between jobs" when no jobs were likely to become available.

Food stamps is another problem. But the Republicans will give in on that one when we bring up the reality of hungry children and when the homeless start assembling on Wall Street again.

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Response to JDPriestly (Reply #9)

Thu Dec 20, 2012, 08:41 AM

13. Nice rationalization.

But that doesn't solve the problem that millions of people are going to suffer if we go off the fiscal cliff.

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Response to One of the 99 (Reply #13)

Thu Dec 20, 2012, 08:55 AM

23. Yes people will suffer due to sequestration

but going over the cliff creates conditions for a healthier economy and revenue coming in long term. The planned compromise that is put on the table is not only a short term hurting on people but long term as well. Look at the damage done to the US postal service. Has that been undone yet?

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Response to Harmony Blue (Reply #23)

Thu Dec 20, 2012, 09:30 AM

53. Will you suffer?

I won't but I'm more concerned about people who will. I thought liberals/progressives were supposed to be more compassionate about those in need. Most here are sounding more like republicans who rather win a political battle than actually help people who need help now.

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Response to One of the 99 (Reply #53)

Thu Dec 20, 2012, 10:10 AM

64. You simply don't understand what a chained CPI will do...

it will hit the poor hard now and into the future. Sequestration can be dealt with on the other hand...

Sorry, but when the Obama didn't let the tax cuts expire he created the conditions for this reality to come up again today. That is the price you pay for such a pragmatic approach.

I 100% understand why he did it at the time but he can't do it again this time around. Not when Social Security is on the line...

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Response to Harmony Blue (Reply #64)

Thu Dec 20, 2012, 10:15 AM

66. No you don't understand.

Millions will lose benefits now, in 2 weeks. Chained CPI will result in an average reduction of $50 per month after 20 years. That can be undone by a future Congress. But those who have real needs now are going to suffer. Even if sequestration in undone at the end of January, that still means that for 4 weeks many will go hungry.

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Response to One of the 99 (Reply #66)

Thu Dec 20, 2012, 10:21 AM

72. The damage done to the US postal service

has yet to be undone. Republicans pretty much put a Trojan horse in (chained CPI is no different).

http://www.dailykos.com/story/2012/04/22/1084948/-Republicans-manufacture-a-crisis-for-the-Postal-Service-and-too-many-Democrats-go-along#

Hold one thought in your mind every time you read about the "crisis" the U.S. Postal Service is in: There is a crisis, but it's a manufactured one. If Congress wasn't busy applying the Shock Doctrine, the postal service would face a challenge, but one it had time to meet. Instead, we're being told by Congress and by high-level management at the post office that the crisis is now and that massive cuts are the only answer—that degrading the services the postal service offers will save it.
But before we look at the cuts being proposed, what's so manufactured about this crisis?

In 2006, the postal service generated a profit. That was the last time it did so, because in late 2006, a lame duck Congress passed the Postal Accountability and Enhancement Act, which among other things forced the postal service to fund its retiree health benefit obligations 75 years into the future, and to do so within 10 years. Taking care of retirees is a good thing, and we've seen far too many workers expected to fill the gaps in pensions and health benefits underfunded through no fault of their own. I'm not arguing that the postal service should reverse course so far that it leaves its retirees without health care. But if you needed a single concrete example to demonstrate that this is a manufactured crisis, here it is: Congress put a burden on the postal service that no other government agency or private corporation faces, and when that causes or accelerates problems, it's taken as evidence of certain doom and the need to make deep cuts.


Sequestration can be worked on with the new Congress convenes on the other hand and will be their top priority. If the damage done to the US postal service has yet to be undone, where is the political capital for the chained CPI to be undone?

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Response to Harmony Blue (Reply #72)

Thu Dec 20, 2012, 10:31 AM

79. You're contradicting yourself.

On one hand your saying that Congress can't undue some damage and on the other hand it can. Which is it?

And even if sequestration is reversed in February, that's still a month that other people's children will have to go hungry to stand up for your principles.

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Response to One of the 99 (Reply #79)

Thu Dec 20, 2012, 11:13 AM

134. There will be more political will to stop Sequestration

because even Republicans are against the cuts to Defense for example. It is not a contradiction but a reality is that Sequestration is across the board the cuts for the most part where both Democrats and Republicans do not want to see happen.

Cuts to Social Security or a ball and chain to the US postal service draws very little empathy from Republicans on the other hand.

Embrace that truth.

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Response to Harmony Blue (Reply #134)

Thu Dec 20, 2012, 11:17 AM

138. The truth is

anything done by Congress can be undone by another congress in the future.

And even if congress reverses the sequestration in February, it will be a harsh January for many of the needy.

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Response to One of the 99 (Reply #53)

Thu Dec 20, 2012, 11:08 AM

126. So what are you suggesting? Just giving into boners "plan b"? That may provide the short term

relief that you are discussing, but it will hurt many more for years come. It won't be just social security and medicare, everything that you are rightfully concerned about now will be at risk later, but worse.

The facts are the current Congress are not going to agree, and it is far better to wait for the next congress, then doing something that will hurt us for decades



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Response to still_one (Reply #126)

Fri Dec 21, 2012, 05:02 AM

215. Never once.

I suggesting that going over the cliff that so many here are for will result in suffering for a lot of people and shouldn't be celebrated with such glee.

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Response to One of the 99 (Reply #215)

Fri Dec 21, 2012, 06:45 AM

221. you are right. However, since we last discussed, the republicans didn't even want their own plan.

It looks more and more like we are going over the cliff


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Response to still_one (Reply #221)

Fri Dec 21, 2012, 07:51 AM

223. Unfortunately

But maybe the implosion of the GOP means the Dems can get a better deal.

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Response to One of the 99 (Reply #223)

Fri Dec 21, 2012, 09:34 AM

225. I hope so

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Response to One of the 99 (Reply #13)

Fri Dec 21, 2012, 02:16 AM

214. The money is owed to the people on Social Security and to the federal retirees.

The federal government is obligated to pay all debts. That is in the 14th Amendment. Read it.

If it doesn't pay for other programs, the government will not be defaulting. If it doesn't pay for Social Security or for other federal pensions, seems to me it is defaulting. The Supreme Court has ruled that Social Security payments can be changed in this way, but it's my generation who paid extra into the Social Security Trust Fund beginning around 1985 under Reagan. It's my generation that loaned that money to the government, and now it is my generation that is having its benefits cut.

Somehow, when the government has to cut Social Security benefits, it's pretty much over for everyone. It means that we are a nation that can't pay its bills, that is in default, that is on the decline.

Now it is people on Social Security. And when our benefits have been cut, the government will cut the programs that you rely on -- and also raise your taxes.

And then we will have social unrest in the country.

We need to tackle our trade imbalance. Because it is our "free" trade policy that has cost us jobs, and the tax revenue that people generate when they have good jobs.

Chaining the CPI is a fools' gold. It will make the president and Congress feel like they have solved a problem when they have only made it worse. Seniors spend their Social Security money or repay it in taxes. That money stays in our economy. Relatively little of it is spent on new shoes from China or new cars from Japan, etc. It's spent on groceries and bus fare and things like that. Seniors that have incomes over $40,000 pay a lot if not all of their Social Security back into the general fund in the form of taxes.

http://moneyover55.about.com/od/taxtips/a/Social-Security-Taxation-for-Marrieds-Case-Study-3.htm

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Response to JDPriestly (Reply #214)

Fri Dec 21, 2012, 05:04 AM

216. I don't disagree

But going over the cliff should not be celebrated because a lot of people are going to suffer.

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Response to JDPriestly (Reply #9)

Thu Dec 20, 2012, 09:38 AM

55. I was just thinking about cuts to the Section 8 program

Lots of people will lose that I guess

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Response to JDPriestly (Reply #9)

Thu Dec 20, 2012, 10:35 AM

85. I am 48 and have two kids and an 81 year old mother who lives with me.

Thanks for throwing me and my whole family under a bus so that you can have your increases be .05 x's higher than otherwise.

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Response to One of the 99 (Original post)

Thu Dec 20, 2012, 08:41 AM

14. Cuts due to the so-called "fiscal cliff" can be undone in January

Cuts made in a compromise can't be undone - we'll have them forever.

Both hurt poor people and cause people to go hungry.

I'd rather have cuts that can be undone.

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Response to gollygee (Reply #14)

Thu Dec 20, 2012, 08:45 AM

16. If you can't feed your kids for the first few weeks in January

That can't be undone. The chained CPI CAN be undone if the Dems retake the House in '14 or '16.

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Response to One of the 99 (Reply #16)

Thu Dec 20, 2012, 08:47 AM

17. We won't retake the house

due to gerrymandering.

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Response to gollygee (Reply #17)

Thu Dec 20, 2012, 09:03 AM

30. +1

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Response to gollygee (Reply #17)

Thu Dec 20, 2012, 09:09 AM

39. +1, n/t

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Response to gollygee (Reply #14)

Thu Dec 20, 2012, 08:51 AM

20. Good post

We can pick up the pieces from the fiscal cliff. Undoing the damage to social security will be very difficult.

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Response to gollygee (Reply #14)

Thu Dec 20, 2012, 10:37 AM

87. The fact that they are making these 'cuts' now implies that they could be

undone. Otherwise, how are they being done now?

And what PROOF does anyone have that whatever panicked deal they come up with in January will be so much better than whatever panicked deal they come up with NOW? Because of small changes in the make up of the House?

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Response to renie408 (Reply #87)

Thu Dec 20, 2012, 10:40 AM

91. Why do you put the word "panicked" in front of the deal for January

instead of now? I think the panic is now, and yes the house makeup is worse now, so for those two reasons now will be worse.

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Response to renie408 (Reply #87)

Thu Dec 20, 2012, 11:23 AM

147. The fiscal cliff talk will be no more come January

and the attention will then shift to towards Sequestration.

That is how we know. If that is confusing, that is understandable.

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Response to One of the 99 (Original post)

Thu Dec 20, 2012, 08:49 AM

18. reminding people about the unemployment benifits

and the rest will brand you as a right wing troll.

God forbid you care about those in poverty...it is just not done on this board.

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Response to Riftaxe (Reply #18)

Thu Dec 20, 2012, 08:55 AM

24. Nice broad brush you swing there.

But you are of course, quite wrong.

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Response to Melinda (Reply #24)

Thu Dec 20, 2012, 08:57 AM

26. It is my understanding unemployment benefits are one of

the things on the chopping block.

As a matter of a fact, i think i can back that up...care to do the same?

go away troll

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Response to Riftaxe (Reply #26)

Thu Dec 20, 2012, 09:11 AM

40. You say Duers don't care about those in poverty, then respond to me with a personal attack?

Atypical.

Sorry, edited to finish point.

At no place in this thread will you find me disagreeing that UI benefits are on the chopping block. Why answer as you did?

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Response to Melinda (Reply #40)


Response to Riftaxe (Reply #41)

Thu Dec 20, 2012, 09:24 AM

47. ....

Sorry, but I haven't the interest to continue this discussion. I don't like confrontation of any kind, and even more so with strangers on the net. Take care, goodbye.

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Response to Riftaxe (Reply #18)

Thu Dec 20, 2012, 08:56 AM

25. Many, many people relying on social security are poor

You're aware of that, right? Not wanting cuts to social security IS because we care about the poor.

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Response to gollygee (Reply #25)

Thu Dec 20, 2012, 09:01 AM

28. Oh dear, i suspect i am a hell of a lot more aware of

it then you.

If you care about the poor and those in poverty you are not the average DU'r anyways.

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Response to Riftaxe (Reply #28)

Thu Dec 20, 2012, 09:06 AM

36. You're making some huge assumptions about me

You don't know me or what work I do.

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Response to gollygee (Reply #25)

Thu Dec 20, 2012, 09:02 AM

29. Look this is a lose lose situation for the poor

we are simply arguing which is more palatable (morbid but a grim reality). Going over the cliff means all the tax cuts expire which means revenue is actually coming in for a change.

Would that stall the economy? Possibly, especially along with the sequestration. But what is proposed to be done to social security and who knows what else in this "compromise" is far worse.

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Response to Harmony Blue (Reply #29)

Thu Dec 20, 2012, 09:04 AM

32. There is no arguing that

However, does not mean we have to smile while it goes down.

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Response to Harmony Blue (Reply #29)

Thu Dec 20, 2012, 09:04 AM

33. +1

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Response to Harmony Blue (Reply #29)

Thu Dec 20, 2012, 09:22 AM

46. So you're arguing that it is better

that people lose essential benefits in 2 weeks than a slight reduction in benefits, which can be undone when the Dems retake the House, in 20 years time.

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Response to One of the 99 (Reply #46)

Thu Dec 20, 2012, 09:25 AM

49. The damage done to the US postal service

has yet to be undone....

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Response to gollygee (Reply #25)

Thu Dec 20, 2012, 09:06 AM

35. Well said

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