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Wed Dec 19, 2012, 05:58 PM

Krugman: That Old Sick Feeling

That Old Sick Feeling
Here we go again — or so I find myself fearing.


Obama’s fiscal deal offer was already distressing — cuts to Social Security, and a big concession, it turns out, on taxation of dividends, retaining most of the Bush cut (with the benefits flowing overwhelmingly to the top 1 percent). It wasn’t clear that the deal would have gotten nearly enough in return.

But sure enough, it looks as if Republicans have taken the offer as a sign of weakness, as a starting point from which they can bargain Obama down. Oh, and they’re not giving up at all on the idea of using the debt ceiling for further blackmail.

In other words, all of a sudden it’s feeling a lot like 2011 again, with the president negotiating with himself while the other side enjoys the process.

...

And if Obama does try to make more concessions, Democrats in Congress need to let him know that they’re not behind him, that he cannot count on their votes.

http://krugman.blogs.nytimes.com/2012/12/19/that-old-sick-feeling/

.

64 replies, 7572 views

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Arrow 64 replies Author Time Post
Reply Krugman: That Old Sick Feeling (Original post)
cthulu2016 Dec 2012 OP
MannyGoldstein Dec 2012 #1
Nay Dec 2012 #7
AAO Dec 2012 #43
tama Dec 2012 #46
Mojorabbit Dec 2012 #56
DonCoquixote Dec 2012 #12
Doctor_J Dec 2012 #18
onethatcares Dec 2012 #26
midnight Dec 2012 #40
tama Dec 2012 #47
pscot Dec 2012 #23
kentuck Dec 2012 #24
villager Dec 2012 #27
Hydra Dec 2012 #29
MannyGoldstein Dec 2012 #32
blackspade Dec 2012 #55
tama Dec 2012 #45
CaliforniaPeggy Dec 2012 #2
TDale313 Dec 2012 #28
Gin Dec 2012 #3
Fearless Dec 2012 #4
DonCoquixote Dec 2012 #9
Hydra Dec 2012 #30
Fearless Dec 2012 #54
DonCoquixote Dec 2012 #60
DonCoquixote Dec 2012 #61
kentuck Dec 2012 #5
BigDemVoter Dec 2012 #6
Whisp Dec 2012 #11
DonCoquixote Dec 2012 #16
BigDemVoter Dec 2012 #20
Poll_Blind Dec 2012 #8
greenman3610 Dec 2012 #10
pangaia Dec 2012 #37
madrchsod Dec 2012 #13
edhopper Dec 2012 #15
magical thyme Dec 2012 #25
buzzroller Dec 2012 #59
Gregorian Dec 2012 #14
Doctor_J Dec 2012 #17
kentuck Dec 2012 #21
Hydra Dec 2012 #33
tama Dec 2012 #49
PasadenaTrudy Dec 2012 #19
Buns_of_Fire Dec 2012 #22
nineteen50 Dec 2012 #31
OKNancy Dec 2012 #34
JEB Dec 2012 #35
Poll_Blind Dec 2012 #52
on point Dec 2012 #36
hifiguy Dec 2012 #39
JEB Dec 2012 #50
Ruby the Liberal Dec 2012 #38
supercats Dec 2012 #41
Nay Dec 2012 #53
FailureToCommunicate Dec 2012 #42
jsr Dec 2012 #44
limpyhobbler Dec 2012 #48
Eddie Haskell Dec 2012 #51
Michigan Alum Dec 2012 #57
olegramps Dec 2012 #58
saidsimplesimon Dec 2012 #62
sarcasmo Dec 2012 #63
woo me with science Dec 2012 #64

Response to cthulu2016 (Original post)

Wed Dec 19, 2012, 05:59 PM

1. Folding like a cheap lawn chair

Astonishing.

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Response to MannyGoldstein (Reply #1)

Wed Dec 19, 2012, 06:13 PM

7. Astonishing it is. There is simply no one to vote for anymore; the rape and pillage

continues unabated, while the cheerleaders on this board tell us it's all okay.

You know what? I've come to the conclusion that 1) there's no fixing stupid, and 2) propaganda works. I hate that I will be leaving this mess for my kid and grandkid, but what do you do after you've hollered, written, e-mailed, and voted?

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Response to Nay (Reply #7)

Wed Dec 19, 2012, 08:16 PM

43. You hit the nail head

 

And it is true: there's no fixing stupid

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Response to Nay (Reply #7)

Wed Dec 19, 2012, 08:28 PM

46. What do you do after?

 

Accept your own responsibility and understand that only thing you really can change is yourself. And that to change is to adapt to the environment...

If you are driven to act by strong social consciousness, there's of course always lot of practical helpful things to do, in your immediate environment.

If the game of politics is what you like, accept that there's no fixing stupid, that propaganda works, and that politics is all about manipulation of emotions, a theater spectacle. And play the play.

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Response to tama (Reply #46)

Thu Dec 20, 2012, 03:26 AM

56. Great post. nt

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Response to MannyGoldstein (Reply #1)

Wed Dec 19, 2012, 06:23 PM

12. I agree with you for once Manny.

The GOP needs to start acting like they lost in a landslide, especially because they did.

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Response to DonCoquixote (Reply #12)

Wed Dec 19, 2012, 06:35 PM

18. They won't start unless someone makes them

And Obama isn't going to.

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Response to DonCoquixote (Reply #12)

Wed Dec 19, 2012, 06:57 PM

26. NO, the Democratic Party has to

act like they WON in a LANDSLIDE and promote the working class.

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Response to onethatcares (Reply #26)

Wed Dec 19, 2012, 07:52 PM

40. Yes...

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Response to onethatcares (Reply #26)

Wed Dec 19, 2012, 08:30 PM

47. And if and when it does not

 

what happens to "has to"?

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Response to MannyGoldstein (Reply #1)

Wed Dec 19, 2012, 06:52 PM

23. You personally have taken a lot of undeserved shit

form the Obama claque on this board. But you've been right all along. I honor you for your courage and insight. Unfortunarely it's like pounding sand down a rathole. .

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Response to pscot (Reply #23)

Wed Dec 19, 2012, 06:56 PM

24. You can fool some of the people all of the time...

But you can't fool all the people all of the time...

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Response to pscot (Reply #23)

Wed Dec 19, 2012, 06:58 PM

27. +1

n/t

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Response to pscot (Reply #23)

Wed Dec 19, 2012, 07:11 PM

29. Truth is always ahead of the curve

I used to take flak here for how Bush was legalizing torture.

Can you believe people actually tried to shut me up about it?

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Response to pscot (Reply #23)

Wed Dec 19, 2012, 07:17 PM

32. It's my lot in life.

I'm kind of a shit-magnet with insufficient executive functioning skills to STFU.

Thanks for your kind words.

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Response to MannyGoldstein (Reply #32)

Thu Dec 20, 2012, 02:12 AM

55. Right on brother.

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Response to MannyGoldstein (Reply #1)

Wed Dec 19, 2012, 08:19 PM

45. Astonishing only to those

 

who put their hope and faith in "leaders" and partisan politics.

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Response to cthulu2016 (Original post)

Wed Dec 19, 2012, 05:59 PM

2. I am sick at heart too. And very discouraged...

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Response to CaliforniaPeggy (Reply #2)

Wed Dec 19, 2012, 07:04 PM

28. Me too.

I mean, I knew it was most likely coming, but that doesn't make it any better. I guess a small part of me still hoped the President wouldn't go there, even though he's signaled so clearly over and over that he wanted to. SS should never have been part of the discussion.

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Response to cthulu2016 (Original post)

Wed Dec 19, 2012, 06:10 PM

3. Same here.....grrrrrr

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Response to cthulu2016 (Original post)

Wed Dec 19, 2012, 06:11 PM

4. He was elected too young. A president needs to be somewhat jaded.

He needs to know what it means to have to fight for something important.

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Response to Fearless (Reply #4)

Wed Dec 19, 2012, 06:20 PM

9. Too young

As opposed to Hillary and Bill, who have had plenty of experience selling us out.

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Response to DonCoquixote (Reply #9)

Wed Dec 19, 2012, 07:12 PM

30. It's all the same team

So the face of it doesn't make much of a difference.

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Response to DonCoquixote (Reply #9)

Thu Dec 20, 2012, 01:24 AM

54. You'd have to be more specific.

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Response to Fearless (Reply #54)

Thu Dec 20, 2012, 06:23 PM

60. Ok


NAFTA(Killed American jobs and made Mexicans lives worse)

Repealing Glass-Stegall (allowed Wall Street to go derivative mad and wreck the economy)

Telecommunications act "Removed regulations that would have prevented Clear Channel from owning so much of the media, which allowed the Fox talking heads to dominate news)

Hillary Clinton is older, and touted that in 2008 against Obama, but old does not mean wise, as those three things proved. Yes, I believe she can be aggressive, but she is also capable of the very sellouts Obama gets pilloried for on here.

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Response to DonCoquixote (Reply #60)

Thu Dec 20, 2012, 06:23 PM

61. OH

and suppoting the Iraq War. She should have been old enough to know better.

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Response to cthulu2016 (Original post)

Wed Dec 19, 2012, 06:13 PM

5. Can someone send him to Camp David...and lock the door...

Until after the New Year?

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Response to cthulu2016 (Original post)

Wed Dec 19, 2012, 06:13 PM

6. Wow-- Krugman commentary is always very powerful. . .

and I really respect him.

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Response to BigDemVoter (Reply #6)

Wed Dec 19, 2012, 06:22 PM

11. unless he's on Obama's side on an issue...

 

do you consider Krug powerful and worthy of respect then as well?

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Response to Whisp (Reply #11)

Wed Dec 19, 2012, 06:29 PM

16. Yes

facts are facts, and I am usually an Obama cheerleader, and I can get tired of Krugman talking as if his main job is to help Arianna huffington punish O for not bowing to Hillary. But he is right on this. And, unlike Hillary, Ariiana, Jane Hamsher, Cenk U, Paul was never once fighting for the GOP.

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Response to Whisp (Reply #11)

Wed Dec 19, 2012, 06:39 PM

20. As a matter of fact I do. . . .

I find that he's intelligent & principled and isn't swayed by public opinion. He pretty much says it like it is, regardless of what others think or say.

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Response to cthulu2016 (Original post)

Wed Dec 19, 2012, 06:18 PM

8. DU REC +1 nt

PB

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Response to cthulu2016 (Original post)

Wed Dec 19, 2012, 06:21 PM

10. ok, so let the pres know how you feel. I did.

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Response to greenman3610 (Reply #10)

Wed Dec 19, 2012, 07:43 PM

37. OK I did it.

For whatever it is worth.

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Response to cthulu2016 (Original post)

Wed Dec 19, 2012, 06:23 PM

13. we will see when the deal is done....

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Response to madrchsod (Reply #13)

Wed Dec 19, 2012, 06:26 PM

15. Where do you see anything

but another cave. His opening here is already to far, and the GOP will demand more.

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Response to madrchsod (Reply #13)

Wed Dec 19, 2012, 06:56 PM

25. are you suggesting that he will rescind his offer of chained CPI?

Because imho, that's not generally how negotiation works. What's ceded is gone for good.

And he's folded so fast that I can only expect him to continue to cave to GOP demands.

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Response to magical thyme (Reply #25)

Thu Dec 20, 2012, 10:36 AM

59. I agree the offer is going to be near impossible to rescind

I agree. It is going to be very hard to take back the offer, which the President and Democrats now "own", unfortunately.
I can think of only one real reason that the President could support this policy- Even though social security is not in trouble and is not contributing to the deficit, our corporate controlled government will probably succeed at giving the corporate world low wages to pay and that may lead to more social security problems than projected. Low wages will pay less in but take more out proportionately. Unless our middle class increased in size, social security would have a problem.

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Response to cthulu2016 (Original post)

Wed Dec 19, 2012, 06:24 PM

14. As I watched manuf. go to China. As I watched mil. spending. I said we'd be like England soon.

That was the 80's.

Just plant millions of security cams all over the country.

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Response to cthulu2016 (Original post)

Wed Dec 19, 2012, 06:33 PM

17. Time to stop calling him a Dem

it's ridiculous. I can no longer believe he's this incompetent. The only logical explanation is that he's been in on it the whole time.

I hope the entire Dem caucus tells him to fuck off

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Response to Doctor_J (Reply #17)

Wed Dec 19, 2012, 06:45 PM

21. You'll never know until...

Michelle writes her book.

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Response to Doctor_J (Reply #17)

Wed Dec 19, 2012, 07:20 PM

33. Both teams play for the 1% now

So trying to find the differences will simply be a matter of how it's all presented.

In the end, they'll get it all.

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Response to Hydra (Reply #33)

Wed Dec 19, 2012, 08:39 PM

49. Well, they always did so

 

a classic good cop - bad cop routine. And they wouldn't be doing if it wasn't working - for them.

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Response to cthulu2016 (Original post)

Wed Dec 19, 2012, 06:36 PM

19. Glad I didn't have kids

What a world and future to be leaving them...

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Response to cthulu2016 (Original post)

Wed Dec 19, 2012, 06:50 PM

22. All in all, "The Cliff" is starting to look pretty good. nt

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Response to cthulu2016 (Original post)

Wed Dec 19, 2012, 07:16 PM

31. Show me what you want and

I can do it. I don't remember him being told to chain CPI on S.S. so the 1% wouldn't have to pay more taxes. Trillions to the corporate bankers and their shareholders an cuts for the rest of us. I didn't vote for him this time actions are louder than words.

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Response to cthulu2016 (Original post)

Wed Dec 19, 2012, 07:21 PM

34. This was written before Obama said he would veto the latest Repub offer

and that he would not allow them to hold the ceiling hostage.

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Response to cthulu2016 (Original post)

Wed Dec 19, 2012, 07:28 PM

35. Fuck this shit.

Off the cliff. Best deal we'll ever get from the blood suckers.

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Response to JEB (Reply #35)

Wed Dec 19, 2012, 09:00 PM

52. Indeed!



PB

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Response to cthulu2016 (Original post)

Wed Dec 19, 2012, 07:37 PM

36. Take the cliff. Its a better deal for the country that what's on offer.

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Response to on point (Reply #36)

Wed Dec 19, 2012, 07:50 PM

39. Yep. I have assumed for years

after being trapped in low-paying jobs where I have never been able to do anything than subsist that my retirement plan will consist of a bullet in the temple. No family or kids, so I won't be walking out on anyone.

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Response to hifiguy (Reply #39)

Wed Dec 19, 2012, 08:45 PM

50. Your plan

may be better than mine....park bench and a wool blanket.

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Response to cthulu2016 (Original post)

Wed Dec 19, 2012, 07:45 PM

38. I loathe Republican mentality with the heat of 1,000 suns.

Must be that Masters in Economics I am still paying off monthly.

Thank you , Dr K - and burn in hell, R-Assholes

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Response to cthulu2016 (Original post)

Wed Dec 19, 2012, 07:52 PM

41. If This Is True, Then I Am Sure

If Obama gives them the chained cpi, in other words cutting social security, then we all know that he was
never a democrat. About all we can do is vote in a true progressive democrat next time and try to stop
this downwarding spiral of our basic human rights.

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Response to supercats (Reply #41)

Wed Dec 19, 2012, 11:10 PM

53. Except no true democrat ever actually gets to run. That's the problem. We get a batshit

drooling Republican or a corporate Republican with a D behind his name.

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Response to cthulu2016 (Original post)

Wed Dec 19, 2012, 08:12 PM

42. So damn disheartening... Time to post this toon again:


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Response to cthulu2016 (Original post)

Wed Dec 19, 2012, 08:18 PM

44. "It’s feeling a lot like 2011"? It's feeling a lot like Christmas for Republicans

especially if you're rich.

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Response to cthulu2016 (Original post)

Wed Dec 19, 2012, 08:31 PM

48. Primary challenges for any Democrat who votes to cut.

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Response to cthulu2016 (Original post)

Wed Dec 19, 2012, 08:59 PM

51. I'm so fucking pissed ...

We didn't vote for the man to get sold into slavery. Lincoln he's not.

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Response to cthulu2016 (Original post)

Thu Dec 20, 2012, 04:23 AM

57. Someone who went to college w/ him said that he was always the conciliator, he pissed people off at

times. Some felt that he bent over way to much in his concessions to people.

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Response to cthulu2016 (Original post)

Thu Dec 20, 2012, 10:02 AM

58. Read his books and you will discover that he has always been a sucker for compromise.

He definitely believes in going along to get along. He dreams of a congress that is loving and concerned with the welfare of the nation. He is hopelessly romantic for the Good Ole Days that never existed. He is not like FDR who said he welcomed their hatred and was willing to fight for what he believed in. He wants to be everybody friend. Does anyone think that Obama could have accomplished what FDR accomplished? Yes, he has had some accomplishments. But I really hate to admit that on the major issues such as we now face he is proving to not be up to the task. I sincerely hope to be proven wrong. But, the massive transfer of wealth that has taken place in recent years can no longer be tolerated and demands drastic action, not compromise.

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Response to cthulu2016 (Original post)

Fri Dec 21, 2012, 12:06 PM

62. Krugman tempers his written words. I'd be delighted to hear

what he says among friends.

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Response to cthulu2016 (Original post)

Fri Dec 21, 2012, 12:20 PM

63. Kick!

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Response to cthulu2016 (Original post)

Fri Dec 21, 2012, 12:56 PM

64. Kick

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