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Tue Dec 18, 2012, 07:10 PM

So how does it work if teachers are armed?

Do they keep a loaded gun in their bottom drawer. Gives new meaning to "locked and loaded." You have a special drawer built to order so your assault rifle fits in there?

Do you carry it your purse that you set under the desk? Then you forget about your purse and the kids get into it and start playing with the gun.

Do you put it in a locked closet?

And then what? You might have 3 seconds to defend yourself. You grab your purse and try to find the key to the closet. Run across the room and unlock the door and grab the gun.

That whole scenario makes no sense at all.

What does make sense is to have good strong metal doors with metal windows and someone there who watches the parking lot. And who hits an alarm the minute they see someone dressed all in black with a bullet proof vest get out of a car carrying weapons.


That's what they do in the banks around here. They have cameras that watch the parking lots. The minute someone gets out of a car wearing a ballcap, dark glasses and carrying a bag they hit the alarm and all the cameras everywhere are activated. It's not that hard.

71 replies, 2781 views

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Arrow 71 replies Author Time Post
Reply So how does it work if teachers are armed? (Original post)
leftyladyfrommo Dec 2012 OP
MadHound Dec 2012 #1
jody Dec 2012 #2
kwolf68 Dec 2012 #7
jody Dec 2012 #18
RomneyLies Dec 2012 #35
TheCowsCameHome Dec 2012 #38
renie408 Dec 2012 #8
jody Dec 2012 #19
RomneyLies Dec 2012 #37
renie408 Dec 2012 #52
RomneyLies Dec 2012 #57
renie408 Dec 2012 #44
Hoyt Dec 2012 #56
renie408 Dec 2012 #62
Hoyt Dec 2012 #64
jody Dec 2012 #63
mucifer Dec 2012 #54
ismnotwasm Dec 2012 #12
jody Dec 2012 #22
RomneyLies Dec 2012 #46
Cali_Democrat Dec 2012 #23
jody Dec 2012 #25
RomneyLies Dec 2012 #49
TheCowsCameHome Dec 2012 #28
IL Lib Dec 2012 #34
ellisonz Dec 2012 #71
former-republican Dec 2012 #3
leftyladyfrommo Dec 2012 #5
former-republican Dec 2012 #13
Recursion Dec 2012 #24
Cleita Dec 2012 #26
leftyladyfrommo Dec 2012 #43
Cleita Dec 2012 #4
Recursion Dec 2012 #6
leftyladyfrommo Dec 2012 #11
Fumesucker Dec 2012 #29
leftyladyfrommo Dec 2012 #33
TheCowsCameHome Dec 2012 #9
Turbineguy Dec 2012 #10
leftyladyfrommo Dec 2012 #14
rrneck Dec 2012 #15
TheCowsCameHome Dec 2012 #16
leftyladyfrommo Dec 2012 #17
TheCowsCameHome Dec 2012 #20
leftyladyfrommo Dec 2012 #31
TheCowsCameHome Dec 2012 #32
leftyladyfrommo Dec 2012 #36
PuraVidaDreamin Dec 2012 #21
elleng Dec 2012 #27
Tx4obama Dec 2012 #40
elleng Dec 2012 #47
ThoughtCriminal Dec 2012 #30
leftyladyfrommo Dec 2012 #50
spanone Dec 2012 #39
Mr.Bill Dec 2012 #41
former9thward Dec 2012 #65
Warpy Dec 2012 #42
leftyladyfrommo Dec 2012 #45
Chemisse Dec 2012 #61
k2qb3 Dec 2012 #68
leftyladyfrommo Dec 2012 #48
0rganism Dec 2012 #51
graham4anything Dec 2012 #53
MNBrewer Dec 2012 #55
gollygee Dec 2012 #58
MNBrewer Dec 2012 #69
gollygee Dec 2012 #59
ThoughtCriminal Dec 2012 #60
MNBrewer Dec 2012 #70
AlexSatan Dec 2012 #66
Sancho Dec 2012 #67

Response to leftyladyfrommo (Original post)

Tue Dec 18, 2012, 07:12 PM

1. It doesn't work, that's the thing,

 

It is simply a wet dream for the gun nuts out there. They have no idea how their idea would work out in the real world.

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Response to leftyladyfrommo (Original post)

Tue Dec 18, 2012, 07:14 PM

2. Ask Israel, they understand. nt

 

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Response to jody (Reply #2)

Tue Dec 18, 2012, 07:20 PM

7. Huh?


Total MYTH...other than on the West Bank, every teacher doesn't carry a gun. The one aspect of Israeli gun culture that is that they have strict gun control laws. Itís highly doubtful that Adam Lanza or for that matter, Adam Lanzaís mother, would have had access to an arsenal.

In Israel, gun owners are limited to one pistol and are subject to mental and physical tests. They are also required to be re-certified every three years. In order to own a pistol, an Israeli must for two years have been either a captain in the army or a former lieutenant colonel. Israelis with an equivalent rank in other security organizations may also own a pistol.

In Israel, there are approximately 7.3 guns per 100 people. In 2008, there was less than one gun homicide per 100,000 people. In the U.S., there are 88.8 guns per 100 people and in 2008, there were over 3 gun homicides for each 100,000 people.

Comparing Israel to the US is epic fail by the gun nuttery club.

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Response to kwolf68 (Reply #7)

Tue Dec 18, 2012, 07:30 PM

18. See "ARE ISRAELI TEACHERS ARMED?'

 

http://messiahsmandate.org/are-israeli-teachers-armed/

"On the other hand. I have never seen a school in Israel that was not fenced in. You must go through a locked gate that is guarded by an armed shomer, a security guard. ''

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Response to jody (Reply #18)


Response to RomneyLies (Reply #35)

Tue Dec 18, 2012, 07:45 PM

38. Hello? Hello?

Damn. Where'd that poster go? Hello?

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Response to jody (Reply #2)

Tue Dec 18, 2012, 07:20 PM

8. What is the population of Israel again?

And don't they have mandatory military service, also? And what kind of training do the teachers get and how many students do they have per teacher and....

Yeah...Another false equivalency. You gun guys are really big on those.

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Response to renie408 (Reply #8)

Tue Dec 18, 2012, 07:31 PM

19. See 18. See "ARE ISRAELI TEACHERS ARMED?'

 

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Response to jody (Reply #19)


Response to RomneyLies (Reply #37)

Tue Dec 18, 2012, 07:56 PM

52. Did you read the article?

Cause I am not sure jody is proposing we arm teachers. In the article it says that teachers are NOT armed and that guns are much more difficult to come by in Israel than the US with renewals required for licenses and mental health clearances required, etc. The article does not read like a pro-gun article, whether the site is rightwing or not. The only mention of anyone being armed is an armed guard at checkpoints going into the schools.

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Response to renie408 (Reply #52)

Tue Dec 18, 2012, 07:59 PM

57. Ah, gotcha.

 

Jody has been so gung ho pro gun I didn't bother once I saw what site he used.

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Response to jody (Reply #19)

Tue Dec 18, 2012, 07:50 PM

44. Ok, I am a little confused.

Could you please explain the point YOU are trying to make by saying something other than 'see 18. ARE ISRAELI TEACHERS ARMED?'

Cause if you are saying we shouldn't arm teachers and we need way tougher gun control, OK, I agree and I get it now.

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Response to renie408 (Reply #44)

Tue Dec 18, 2012, 07:59 PM

56. Just more gun bull from gungeon - more guns everywhere - elite.

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Response to Hoyt (Reply #56)

Tue Dec 18, 2012, 08:05 PM

62. Sorry...you should actually read the article.

I am really really NOT pro gun and neither is that article. It talks about teachers NOT being armed, really stringent regulations on gun ownership and required renewals for gun licenses.

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Response to renie408 (Reply #62)

Tue Dec 18, 2012, 08:10 PM

64. I was explaining "jody's" response. Answering your question above.

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Response to renie408 (Reply #44)

Tue Dec 18, 2012, 08:06 PM

63. My post was re "2. Ask Israel, they understand." Interpret it as you wish. nt

 

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Response to renie408 (Reply #8)

Tue Dec 18, 2012, 07:59 PM

54. The whole country is the size of Rhode Island.

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Response to jody (Reply #2)

Tue Dec 18, 2012, 07:24 PM

12. Oh?

That I didn't know. I do know Israel has the finest, most cutting edge burn centers.

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Response to ismnotwasm (Reply #12)

Tue Dec 18, 2012, 07:32 PM

22. See 18. See "ARE ISRAELI TEACHERS ARMED?'

 

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Response to jody (Reply #22)


Response to jody (Reply #2)

Tue Dec 18, 2012, 07:33 PM

23. How pathetic is this country?

Look at countries like the UK, Japan, Germany and Canada. They aren't contemplating arming teachers with firearms or having armed guards at school. Israel is a tiny country essentially in a war zone and you're comparing it with America?

What does this say about our country where we talk about arming teachers? The USA has become a laughingstock and it's because of gun nuts like you.

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Response to Cali_Democrat (Reply #23)

Tue Dec 18, 2012, 07:36 PM

25. If that's your best, calling me a "gun nut" then I despair of finding a solution to preventing more

 

tragedies like Sandy Hook.

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Response to jody (Reply #25)


Response to Cali_Democrat (Reply #23)

Tue Dec 18, 2012, 07:37 PM

28. Excellent post.

Thank you for saying it.

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Response to Cali_Democrat (Reply #23)

Tue Dec 18, 2012, 07:42 PM

34. +1 n/t

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Response to Cali_Democrat (Reply #23)

Wed Dec 19, 2012, 12:11 AM

71. +2

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Response to leftyladyfrommo (Original post)

Tue Dec 18, 2012, 07:15 PM

3. "So how does it work if teachers are armed"

 


With a one point sling




I kid


How about security at every school, inner cities have it.

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Response to former-republican (Reply #3)

Tue Dec 18, 2012, 07:19 PM

5. Actually you could just give teachers a good strong ruler.

Then they could simply rap the guy's knuckles.

My mother was a teacher. She could just guilt trip you to death.

Honestly, it's not funny but the whole concept is just too absurd for words.

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Response to leftyladyfrommo (Reply #5)

Tue Dec 18, 2012, 07:24 PM

13. "Then they could simply rap the guy's knuckles"

 

Lol




It would be way to much to expect teachers to armed in the classrooms.

I think hiring security would work. We have 100,000 public schools in the country and having a cop at every school isn't feasible

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Response to former-republican (Reply #13)

Tue Dec 18, 2012, 07:33 PM

24. I don't know. Sounds like a good stimulus program to me

Plus it would be community outreach

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Response to leftyladyfrommo (Reply #5)

Tue Dec 18, 2012, 07:37 PM

26. Dress them up like old fashioned nuns. That's enough to scare any psychopath

especially when they gave you that look.

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Response to Cleita (Reply #26)

Tue Dec 18, 2012, 07:49 PM

43. You may have just found the solution.

Nobody, but nobody, is going to take on one of those old fashioned nuns.

I used to volunteer in a big Catholic Hospital in Salt Lake City. Tree West was run by this old fashioned nun. I was just scared spitless of her. She was really good to her patients but man was she murder to work with.

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Response to leftyladyfrommo (Original post)

Tue Dec 18, 2012, 07:18 PM

4. It doesn't work.

Even if possible, I would not send a child to a school with armed adults. I would really consider home schooling then. What will work is a better plan just in case something like that could happen, and drills like fire drills to make sure everyone knows what to do. There should be bullet proof hiding places, exit plans and I would explore maybe the use of high power water hoses to stop and blind an assailant temporarily, maybe from the sprinkler system so that all a teacher needs to do is pull a switch. Just a thought not a well reasoned idea right now since I just thought of it.

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Response to leftyladyfrommo (Original post)

Tue Dec 18, 2012, 07:20 PM

6. A holster

Since the context is teachers who are concealed-carry licensees, their handgun would be in a holster under a layer of clothing.

As far as how many teachers are CCW licensees, and how many of those would even want to carry at work? No idea.

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Response to Recursion (Reply #6)

Tue Dec 18, 2012, 07:23 PM

11. I still think it would be better just to keep watch of the parking lot.

And the grounds. If anything looks wierd just lock the doors - but you would have to have the right kind of doors - heavy metal and secure.

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Response to leftyladyfrommo (Reply #11)

Tue Dec 18, 2012, 07:38 PM

29. Evidently Adam came in through the window

Windows would all have to be ballistic glass.

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Response to Fumesucker (Reply #29)

Tue Dec 18, 2012, 07:41 PM

33. Yes, they would.

And that would cost a fortune to refit all the schools with special bullet proof winds.

But you could cover the windows with metal screens of some sort.

And then all the kids could go to schools that look exactly like reform schools. That would be so awful for the kids.

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Response to leftyladyfrommo (Original post)

Tue Dec 18, 2012, 07:21 PM

9. It doesn't. It means we lost the war.

n/t

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Response to leftyladyfrommo (Original post)

Tue Dec 18, 2012, 07:23 PM

10. You leave it on the desk.

If a child brings you an apple, you shoot him. The apple might be poisoned, you never know.

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Response to Turbineguy (Reply #10)

Tue Dec 18, 2012, 07:25 PM

14. There are parts of KC where that might actually happen.

In some parts of this town the teachers need to carry mace and wear bullet proof vests just to protect themselves fromthe students.

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Response to leftyladyfrommo (Original post)

Tue Dec 18, 2012, 07:25 PM

15. Not very well. nt

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Response to leftyladyfrommo (Original post)

Tue Dec 18, 2012, 07:27 PM

16. What the hell, let them open carry

If we're going to turn schools into gun shows, why not strut your stuff?



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Response to TheCowsCameHome (Reply #16)

Tue Dec 18, 2012, 07:29 PM

17. Hey, they have gun sales to raise money.

Carnivals and garage sales are so yesterday.

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Response to leftyladyfrommo (Reply #17)

Tue Dec 18, 2012, 07:31 PM

20. Bake sales and girl scout cookes are out, eh?

I live in the past. It's safer there.

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Response to TheCowsCameHome (Reply #20)

Tue Dec 18, 2012, 07:39 PM

31. Now the kids peddle those awful coupon books.

They cost about $10 and have no coupons that you could ever use.

Gun sales might be a lot more lucrative.

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Response to leftyladyfrommo (Reply #31)

Tue Dec 18, 2012, 07:41 PM

32. Guilt books.

Ya can't say "no"

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Response to TheCowsCameHome (Reply #32)

Tue Dec 18, 2012, 07:43 PM

36. I say "no."

I never have ten dollars.

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Response to leftyladyfrommo (Original post)

Tue Dec 18, 2012, 07:31 PM

21. Underpaid, overworked

Poor performance rating, on Prozac, yeah like a teacher couldn't snap.

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Response to leftyladyfrommo (Original post)

Tue Dec 18, 2012, 07:37 PM

27. Chaos.

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Response to elleng (Reply #27)

Tue Dec 18, 2012, 07:47 PM

40. And below is Part TWO




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Response to Tx4obama (Reply #40)

Tue Dec 18, 2012, 07:52 PM

47. Thanks twice, Tx4.

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Response to leftyladyfrommo (Original post)

Tue Dec 18, 2012, 07:39 PM

30. I actually know a teacher that murdered a student during an argument

But it was not at school (at student's apartment) and not with a gun (kitchen knife).

Statistically , guns in the home have not been a good idea in homes with children. I'm not enthusiastic about having them at schools.


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Response to ThoughtCriminal (Reply #30)

Tue Dec 18, 2012, 07:54 PM

50. I dated a teacher once who called his students

"those little assholes."

I dumped him. He was a jerk in a whole lot of ways.

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Response to leftyladyfrommo (Original post)

Tue Dec 18, 2012, 07:46 PM

39. they get shot first..... ultra-bad idea.

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Response to leftyladyfrommo (Original post)

Tue Dec 18, 2012, 07:47 PM

41. When the police arrive at a scene where shots have been fired,

They really, really would prefer it if the only one there with a gun in his hand is the bad guy. Can you imagine how much it complicates things for them if several people have guns and they have to sort out who the good guys and bad guys are? Ask any cop you know about this.

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Response to Mr.Bill (Reply #41)

Tue Dec 18, 2012, 08:14 PM

65. And they really prefer it when the guy kills himself before hand like at Sandy Hook.

Then they don't have to do any work at all.

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Response to leftyladyfrommo (Original post)

Tue Dec 18, 2012, 07:49 PM

42. By the time you register that a gun is pointed at you

and start to make any kind of move toward a drawer, you're dead.

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Response to Warpy (Reply #42)

Tue Dec 18, 2012, 07:51 PM

45. Yea. You would have to hold in your hand all the time.

That would get old after about five minutes.

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Response to leftyladyfrommo (Reply #45)

Tue Dec 18, 2012, 08:05 PM

61. Yeah we could have them slung around our necks on chain lanyards, along with the classroom keys.

Always at the ready.

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Response to leftyladyfrommo (Reply #45)

Tue Dec 18, 2012, 08:53 PM

68. I disagree.

If school staff (not necessarily teachers, could be any school staff) had access to a biometric coded safe to store weapons in they would likely have a significant amount of time to access it if school security is otherwise half decent, locked doors, etc. Also you're assuming the armed staff is the first person targeted, otherwise the gunfire would be a clue.

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Response to leftyladyfrommo (Original post)

Tue Dec 18, 2012, 07:52 PM

48. How about smoke bombs?

Course if the kids got ahold of them it would be a mess. Fun, but a mess.

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Response to leftyladyfrommo (Original post)

Tue Dec 18, 2012, 07:55 PM

51. and how much do firearms manufacturers stand to make from the process?

just came up with this estimate in another thread, so I won't vouch for its accuracy beyond a ballpark figure. Let's say we have 60 teachers/janitors/administrators per district allocated to a "security qualification" program where they train for CCW licenses plus special procedures appropriate to defending a public school, and are expected to pack heat every day, let's say a reasonably good handgun with holster. Let's even be generous and assume 10 of the qualifiers already have the training and hardware, so it's 50 per district. There are over 16000 school districts in the USA. I'll estimate $500 for a good combo of personal instruction, pistol, shoulder holster, and ammo (go ahead and price out a cheaper package, i think the number's well within an order of magnitude, and probably within a factor of 2, of what a school district would end up paying per person).

16000 X 50 X $500 = $400000000. That's 400 million dollars transferred directly from public coffers to gun makers' bankrolls. Sure, it's not the US military, but it's nothing to sneeze at either. If they push hard enough in this direction, the purveyors of long-distance death tools stand to come out smelling like roses and making a buck along the way.

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Response to leftyladyfrommo (Original post)

Tue Dec 18, 2012, 07:56 PM

53. If only the first victim here, a teacher, had a gun, it would have stopped the whole thing

 

logic and common sense exposes the NRA million dollar suit lies

There is no logical reason for a gun

Of course, one can think of many reasons the NRA wants people to always have guns
but none of them are good.

there is not one good reason for a gun

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Response to leftyladyfrommo (Original post)

Tue Dec 18, 2012, 07:59 PM

55. Wouldn't that make the teacher's union a "public safety union"?

Therefore able to bargain collectively just like the police and firefighter's unions in Wisconsin?

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Response to MNBrewer (Reply #55)

Tue Dec 18, 2012, 08:00 PM

58. And Michigan now

I wonder that too. Also, if they're teachers AND armed security guards, they should make more money.

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Response to gollygee (Reply #58)

Wed Dec 19, 2012, 12:06 AM

69. AND baby sitters, AND psychologists, AND role-models, etc.

People expect too much from teachers, and not enough of themselves. Parents need to be at LEAST as involved in their child's education as the teachers.

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Response to leftyladyfrommo (Original post)

Tue Dec 18, 2012, 08:02 PM

59. Teachers aren't even trusted to hand out Tylenol, are they?

They have to go to the office where someone trained in Tylenol does that.

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Response to leftyladyfrommo (Original post)

Tue Dec 18, 2012, 08:03 PM

60. Only one in this room professional enough to carry a Glock 40

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Response to ThoughtCriminal (Reply #60)

Wed Dec 19, 2012, 12:07 AM

70. Which pretty much shows nobody was hehe

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Response to leftyladyfrommo (Original post)

Tue Dec 18, 2012, 08:22 PM

66. 3 seconds? Um, no.

 

Columbine lasted 50 minutes

Sandy hook lasted 5-10 minutes.

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Response to leftyladyfrommo (Original post)

Tue Dec 18, 2012, 08:26 PM

67. It will make parent conferences interesting!

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