HomeLatest ThreadsGreatest ThreadsForums & GroupsMy SubscriptionsMy Posts
DU Home » Latest Threads » Forums & Groups » Main » General Discussion (Forum) » Darken Rahl and his Trip ...
Introducing Discussionist: A new forum by the creators of DU

Tue Dec 18, 2012, 07:02 PM

Darken Rahl and his Trip to the Underworld (or, eat it, antigamers)

We've seen a lot of threads lately involving "violence in video games". We've seen people saying that violent video games induce someone to be violent. We've seen claims that exposure to violent imagery and violent acts influences society to be more violent.

I have a violent sequence from a well-known series of books that makes the violence in today's video games look like an amateur sham. This WILL NOT go down well for some of you. This IS NOT something children should read. This IS NOT- not in any way- "nice".

YOU HAVE BEEN WARNED.

In Terry Goodkind's "Wizard's First Rule", an evil wizard named Darken Rahl is trying to collect the three Boxes of Orden so he can rule the world. These boxes are, together, an item of magic, and they have specific rules for their use. Among other things, once the boxes are "put into play", as it is called, the player has one year from the date of activation to collect and open one of the three boxes. The player is also protected from harm during that period- the power of Orden literally makes them invincible during that year. Darken Rahl's year ends on the first day of winter.

Each of the boxes are identical and indistinguishable from another. They are dead black, a black that sucks the light from the room, a black that is so unreflective that to see them is to look upon a shadow at midnight.

These boxes are the black of the world of the dead.

Opening one box will kill everyone and everything in the universe. Opening that box will cause the world of life to walk through the ashes of death forever. Everything will live, forever, consuming itself; no death, no life, no ending- just an existence surrendered to the Keeper of the underworld. Everything that everyone knows will be forever changed for the unimaginably worse, a kind of death-in-life, and the children of the world of life will live nightmares forever.

Opening another box will grant the Player (in this case, Darken Rahl) complete and sovereign power over the world of life. All- all- will be compelled, forced, to do the Player's bidding. There is no reprieve. There is no appeal. There is no free will. There is only the Power of Orden, and nothing in this life or any other can alter or revoke it. Both the world of the life and the world of the spirits will do the Player's bidding.

Opening the third box will kill the Player, and spare the world of life. For Darken Rahl, this is the wrong box. For everyone else, it's the right one.

These boxes, by the way, have a completely legitimate purpose. Because it's a huge spoiler, I can't tell you why. Mea Culpa.

This is where the story becomes vile, repulsive, and obscene. In order to learn which box is which without using the book of instruction (which he does not have) that comes with the Boxes of Orden (said book being the "Book of Counted Shadows"), Darken Rahl must travel to the underworld and directly consult the spirits. To do so "safely", if any such thing can be considered "safe", Rahl must have a spirit guide, to prevent him from becoming lost and losing his soul.

In the author's world, there are two ways to do this. One is by invoking the aid of a soul to whom the Player is already bound- a lifelong friend, a deeply cherished and honored relative, or something akin to such. The other way is to forge such a connection, and as with all such connections, there is a "good" way and a "bad" way to do it. Being an evil wizard, Rahl chooses the worst way possible.

To get to the underworld and discover which box is which, and to travel beyond the Barrier in the world of life, Rahl kidnaps a child and buries him to his neck in sorcerer's sand (said sand being the crystallized bones of long-dead wizards). Over a long period of time, Darken Rahl entices, induces, cajoles, and convinces this innocent child to betray his family, cast hate upon his parents, and accept Darken Rahl as his father, his authority, and his master in the world of life, heart and soul. Rahl feeds the child through a tube, magically changing the taste of the actual gruel he's feeding him into whatever taste the child desires, and, ultimately, feeds him a bowl of molten lead. Thus this innocent child dies, and the ritual begins.

Darken Rahl then digs the dead child up, dissects his body, and grinds the boy's heart, brain, and testicles into a paste, which he then eats. Consuming the child's body in such a fashion completes the forcible forging of the child's spirit to his own, making the child's soul, all unwitting and by force, into his spirit guide. Rahl then summons the child's spirit, taking the shape of a powerful underworld beast called a shinga, to guide him on his journey through the land of the dead.


So why did I tell you all this?

I told this story because no video game ever made would dare to go there, because of all you idiotic brickheaded spongeheads who think games are "the problem", are "too realistic", are "too violent". Video games can tell fantastic stories, but they won't tell this one, because of people just. Like. You.

They won't tell this story because of lying, pernicious, silver-tongued, spiteful, and above all jealous jerks like you, who can't ban books because you get laughed at, as. You. Should. And I demand- I demand, in your pathetic faces, in defiance of all you wrongly believe to be true- the same treatment for games. All of them. Every last one.

Go burn copies of "Wizard's First Rule" if you want to- excuse me- piss and moan about violent media. You're standing on the dungheap of history and calling it virtue, and nobody listens to you when it's about books. The same- the exact same thing- is true for games. Reality proves it, and no "studies" are necessary.

You've already been defeated a thousand times over, and always will be. We, the creative, the artful, the creators of content, have won, and we always will. We will win in spite of you. Forever, and for the rest of history.

So basically,

FUCK YOU.

AND your dead fucking horse.


40 replies, 2697 views

Reply to this thread

Back to top Alert abuse

Always highlight: 10 newest replies | Replies posted after I mark a forum
Replies to this discussion thread
Arrow 40 replies Author Time Post
Reply Darken Rahl and his Trip to the Underworld (or, eat it, antigamers) (Original post)
Occulus Dec 2012 OP
LineReply .
RomneyLies Dec 2012 #1
Cleita Dec 2012 #2
Occulus Dec 2012 #3
roguevalley Dec 2012 #32
Liberal Veteran Dec 2012 #4
Occulus Dec 2012 #6
SidDithers Dec 2012 #5
Bok_Tukalo Dec 2012 #7
Matariki Dec 2012 #38
Nevernose Dec 2012 #8
Occulus Dec 2012 #9
downandoutnow Dec 2012 #10
white_wolf Dec 2012 #13
downandoutnow Dec 2012 #18
white_wolf Dec 2012 #21
Occulus Dec 2012 #23
Occulus Dec 2012 #31
Cleita Dec 2012 #33
Occulus Dec 2012 #16
white_wolf Dec 2012 #17
Occulus Dec 2012 #26
downandoutnow Dec 2012 #30
Occulus Dec 2012 #34
downandoutnow Dec 2012 #37
Occulus Dec 2012 #40
TDale313 Dec 2012 #39
Evoman Dec 2012 #11
Occulus Dec 2012 #20
white_wolf Dec 2012 #12
0rganism Dec 2012 #14
white_wolf Dec 2012 #15
0rganism Dec 2012 #22
Occulus Dec 2012 #25
0rganism Dec 2012 #27
Occulus Dec 2012 #29
Occulus Dec 2012 #19
0rganism Dec 2012 #24
Occulus Dec 2012 #28
TDale313 Dec 2012 #35
Occulus Dec 2012 #36

Response to Occulus (Original post)

Tue Dec 18, 2012, 07:05 PM

1. .

 

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to Occulus (Original post)

Tue Dec 18, 2012, 07:12 PM

2. Darken Rahl is familiar to me, not the game.

Somewhere in the cobwebby attic of my memory, I believe he was a character in some long forgotten wizard type story or movie. Do you know? Oh, I'm not one of those people who think games are the bottom of the problem. Like I said in another post, I would like to find the ER doctor who treated any one with wounds on him from a video game by another gamer.

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to Cleita (Reply #2)

Tue Dec 18, 2012, 07:14 PM

3. Exactly. The fact is, those who are pissing and moaning about video games

are yesterday's book burners.

They deserve to be summarily dismissed, en masse, as the fools they are.

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to Occulus (Reply #3)

Tue Dec 18, 2012, 09:57 PM

32. actually, I think its part of the puzzle here. To just

deny it is as dumb as saying having a gun in your closet makes you satan. I have two guns both antiques and they have never been fired. If my mere owning them makes me part of the problem then it is wrong to say playing bloody violent games isn't part of the problem.

So a book can make you kill but not games? Is that the point of pointing out a POS book? If that is true, how can watching violence in games and participating in them exempt? It hardly follows that one can be dangerous and the other can't. THey both pose violence and one actually allows you to participate in murder. Yet books are evil in their content and not games. Doesn't follow.

I believe there are many factors and I believe our country glorifies violence. Games are a piece of that puzzle and to say otherwise is to have your own ox gored. To say otherwise is to be the mirror opposite of someone who says guns don't nake people kill others. IMO

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to Occulus (Original post)

Tue Dec 18, 2012, 07:19 PM

4. Wizard's First Rule, brought to you Ayn Rand disciple Terry Goodkind.

I read the first few books, but eventually I got fed up with so much of his Ayn Rand worship that I tossed one of the books in the trash about halfway through and found the rest I had and did the same.

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to Liberal Veteran (Reply #4)

Tue Dec 18, 2012, 07:24 PM

6. They got really, really preachy after Temple of the Winds

and you can outright skip "Faith of the Fallen" and "The Pillars of Creation".

That said, the first book, from which this sequence is taken, is very, very good and doesn't contain much (if any) of the Randian Objectivism (ick, uck) found in the later novels.

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to Occulus (Original post)

Tue Dec 18, 2012, 07:21 PM

5. Marking to read later...nt

Sid

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to Occulus (Original post)

Tue Dec 18, 2012, 07:55 PM

7. I'll never poke fun at my wife ....

... for reading Jane Austen again.

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to Bok_Tukalo (Reply #7)

Tue Dec 18, 2012, 10:25 PM

38. ...

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to Occulus (Original post)

Tue Dec 18, 2012, 08:16 PM

8. Or what about the inhabitants of Sodom?

From another famous book. Two angels are walking around town, when the good townspeople decide to rape them. So one guy says "No, raping those men would be ever so rude. Gang rape my daughters instead."

Skip ahead a little, an emotionally disturbed sky wizard destroys the town and the nice man's wife, et cetera, and the aforementioned daughters decide to date rape their own father, because they mistakenly believe that the evil wizard in the sky demands incest babies.

I learned that story way younger than I was ever allowed to purchase an M for Mature game.

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to Nevernose (Reply #8)

Tue Dec 18, 2012, 08:23 PM

9. I was going to pick something from the Bible, but this was a whole lot more mild

and made my point better because it wasn't religion.

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to Occulus (Original post)

Tue Dec 18, 2012, 08:37 PM

10. LOL -- am I getting this right? Videos games aren't bad because some SciFi/Fantasy book is worse?

 

Um, I'm not sure if you're aware, but most of us more balanced types who aren't fans of violent video games also tend not to be too much into lurid, drecky SciFi/Fantasy stuff either.

"We, the creative, the artful, the creators of content, have won, and we always will. We will win in spite of you. Forever, and for the rest of history." -- whoa! - delusions of grandeur to go with the rage you're suffering from because your video-violence fetish isn't respected as much as you would like it to be.

Look, there's a lot of things that go into events like Watertown - guns obviously the main cause, but there are others as well - mental health, the stigma over mental health and mental health treatment, and maybe even violent video games. Now in fact I do NOT believe that gaming was anywhere near the main cause of the Watertown shooting...

But I have to admit it also makes sense that people such as yourself, who get off by laying around on your sofas with joysticks in sweaty palms committing virtual murder over and over again in increasingly graphic and bloody ways may be just a LITTLE embarassed, deep down, about your sordid hobby. No-one's going to ban it, it falls under the rubric of the First Amendment, but it is a sordid little fetish. Deep down you know that too. That's why so many "gamers" get so angry when anyone questions it.

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to downandoutnow (Reply #10)

Tue Dec 18, 2012, 08:52 PM

13. Violence is a part of the human experience. An awful part, but a part none the less.

To tell a good story you sometimes have to talk about the darker side of humanity. George R.R. Martin does this very well. Joffery is one of the most wretched characters ever put to fiction, but A Song of Ice and Fire is an amazing story that could not be told without violence and death. After rereading your post I have to say I'm sure I wasted my time by replying to you, because you are clearly ignorant as all hell.

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to white_wolf (Reply #13)

Tue Dec 18, 2012, 09:02 PM

18. "To tell a good story you sometimes have to talk about the darker side of humanity." -- may be so! -

 

(although I've grown annoyed over the past couple of decades when we, living the softest of lives in history, and even moreso, the young Millenials, the softest generation in history, just LOVE to natter on about the "dark" and the "gritty" and the "edgy" - but that's a whole other debate) --

Sure, sometimes you have to talk about the "darker" side to tell a good story, no-one's denying that. But from what we gather (us non-gamers) what video games have devolved into, generally, are replications of up-close-and-personal gory, brutal murder, committed over and over again. I know that's not ALL games, but that seems increasingly to be the norm, the standard: that the vast majority of gaming hours are spent hunting and bloodily destroying virtual others.

And again, I know we can't ban them! Guns are protected (at least according to the reigning theory) by the Second Amendment, but videogames ARE protected by a far more important Amendment - the First! But if we're going to have a debate about whether videogames, as they exist today, are by and large a Good Thing or a cultural blight, I'm voting blight.

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to downandoutnow (Reply #18)

Tue Dec 18, 2012, 09:06 PM

21. replications of up-close-and-personal gory, brutal murder

That makes me think you don't know anything about games aside from the most popular of shooters which are a tiny minority of games and not even the best sellers. Nintendo's franchises regularly sell at least as well as any FPS. Most RPGs do involve combat, but it's never gory or up close and is more about story-telling and character interaction than killing people. I'm sorry, but you seem to be forming your opinion of videogames based on ignorance and that makes your opinion almost worthless.

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to white_wolf (Reply #21)

Tue Dec 18, 2012, 09:13 PM

23. Then again, there's FarCry 3, which I'm playing through now

The main point of the story is that you and your friends go to a tropical island for a huge, fun vacation and get captured by a drug-addicted slave trader afterward. Your brother is murdered before your eyes by Vaas Montenegro (the slave trader) and Vaas lets you go, just for the fun of hunting you down.

Your goal, of course, is to rescue your younger brother and your friends from Vaas, in the process freeing the islands from his control, and finally escape. The main plot points are entirely noble- your character did not go into it with murder on his mind. In fact, your character starts the game as a completely inexperienced wuss who, it appears, wouldn't harm a fly. He repeatedly questions his actions, vocally, throughout, but he would do anything to save his younger brother from Vaas... as, I hope, any of us would.

The story behind these games is totally lost upon those who feel offended by them.

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to downandoutnow (Reply #18)

Tue Dec 18, 2012, 09:48 PM

31. There are lots and lots of "first person shooters" out there that really aren't.

"Mirror's Edge" is one such. That game is hard- hard enough I haven't finished it. You never have to fire a weapon if you don't want to. The achievement is called "Test of Faith" and it's nearly impossible. Doable, but very very hard, from a technical standpoint. To do it will require a lot of playtime, a mastery of the controls, and memorization of each and every map in the game.

I don't have that much time! LOL

"Skyrim" is another one that can be very, very bloody, and also bloodless, depending on how you play. On the PC, Skyrim can also be ridiculously beautiful. Desktop background worthy, easily. Some of the scenery is simply breathtaking, and relates a level of artistry not often found in today's games.

Of course, Skyrim's characters aren't at all memorable, like that one guy. With the bow. You know. Him.

etc.

I'm playing through FarCry 3 right now, and for all that it's violent, the character comes across as a real person the player can actually care about, which is something else not often found in today's games. So many of the actors in gaming right now are just throwaway mannequins, puppets expressly spit out for the player's edification. There's very little life to too many characters in games today. That's one thing I'd love to see rectified.

That said, "Bioshock Infinite" looks to have some very well-developed characters, and a fantastic story. I can't wai for it to come out! So who knows? Maybe, in the future, we'll be seeing choices and a story like what's presented in Baldur's Gate, combined with the visuals of Skyrim, the facial animations of LA Noire, and the ease of gameplay we get from Portal 2!

Well, one can dream, I suppose....

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to white_wolf (Reply #13)

Tue Dec 18, 2012, 10:03 PM

33. Yep, he doesn't flinch from the horrors his characters visit on each other. I'm up to

"Feast for Crows". It's what I've been losing myself in cause real life is pissing me off. At least with fantasy, you know there really aren't any dragons although he almost makes you believe his fantasy creatures are real.

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to downandoutnow (Reply #10)

Tue Dec 18, 2012, 08:58 PM

16. My point was to illustrate that many books are far, FAR more violent than any game

and the fact you call the sequence I've related here SCI-FI/Fantasy is telling. It is properly termed "adult fantasy", and your improper classification tells me you don't know what you're talking about, be it books or games.

In "Temple of the Winds", a later book in the series, the main character is forced to follow this double-bind prophecy:

"On the red moon will come the firestorm. The one bonded to the blade will watch as his people die. If he does nothing, then he, and all those he loves will die in its heat, for no blade, forged of steel or conjured of sorcery can touch this foe.

To quench the inferno, he must seek the remedy in the wind. Lightning will find him on that path, for the one in white, his true beloved, will betray him in her blood."

Again, no video game would ever touch this part of this story, mostly because of people such as yourself, who would never allow a game in which a man and man woman who are dearly beloved to each other to be forced into marrying other people, and then consummating that marriage then and there in order to stop a plague that would kill millions. They do: the man and woman beloved are paired to each other, but someone switched them, so they're together, but the woman imagines it being the other man, and in so doing, betrays her true beloved, thus opening the way to the Hall of the Betrayed and allowing her true love to stop the plague.

In both the case I related in my OP, and this case, the violence done in the name of saving lives, be it physical or emotional/spiritual violence, is entirely appropriate and necessary. Yet persons such as yourself consider such violence to be "inappropriate" and think this violence to be a "sordid little fetish".

The Bible has a great deal more violence than either case I've illustrated from this series, and yet parents gleefully expose their innocent and impressionable children to it weekly, telling them they will burn in hell forever if they don't take it to heart. They believe it, wholeheartedly. That way, madness lies. That way lies destruction. Yet, if you are a christian, you follow that path, in reality, where gamers do in knowing fantasy.

Gamers don't believe in their games. Christians knowingly believe in their Bible. Both are utter fantasy.

Who does the greater harm? Gamers, or christians?

My Steam library contains 172 game entries, covering every letter of the alphabet excepting N and O, and crossing every genre, from puzzle and quest, through pure story and simulator, to and through first-person shooter to casual (such as "Bejeweled") and well beyond. I am an expert in this field, if anything can be called an expert gamer.

Would you call someone with a vast array of films from every genre names?

It's the same thing.

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to Occulus (Reply #16)

Tue Dec 18, 2012, 09:01 PM

17. I'm afraid you're wasting your time. This poster has to be a troll.

Their rage against gamers is really funny though. I wonder if their S.O. left them for a gamer?

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to white_wolf (Reply #17)

Tue Dec 18, 2012, 09:22 PM

26. Frankly, I'm wondering if Mr. Benchley is making a repeat visit

The "joysticks in sweaty palms" comment is reminiscent of that asshole.

Forcibly so.

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to Occulus (Reply #16)

Tue Dec 18, 2012, 09:42 PM

30. "SCI-FI/Fantasy is telling. It is properly termed "adult fantasy", and your improper classification"

 

"...the fact you call the sequence I've related here SCI-FI/Fantasy is telling. It is properly termed "adult fantasy", and your improper classification tells me you don't know what you're talking about.."

Nonsense! Embarrassing nonsense! First, a speedy Googling alleges that the books you're referring to are "epic fantasy":

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Temple_of_the_Winds

Some professor has a site up about fantasy - again, one of the first Google hits - under fantasy subgenres, this "adult fantasy" doesn't appear, although allegedly there are Contemporary, Dark, Heroic and High varieties:

http://www.nvcc.edu/home/ataormina/beyond/subjects/fantasysubgenres/index.html

How about Wiki's list of fantasy subgenres? Not there either, although "Young Adult Fantasy" does make an appearance:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Category:Fantasy_genres

But this matters not at all. --- "It is properly termed 'adult fantasy'" you snort, as though I mistook a symphony for a concerto, or a Cezanne from a Renoir, as though particular knowledge about subgenres of contemporary pulp fiction is de rigeur for the well-rounded, fully-educated person of discernment.

It is to laugh! I'll have to admit, my education has grievous holes: I'm not particularly up on the difference between furries and plushies either. Or the variations of dubstep.

But then, maybe I'm not missing much --

"Again, no video game would ever touch this part of this story, mostly because of people such as yourself, who would never allow a game in which a man and man woman who are dearly beloved to each other to be forced into marrying other people, and then consummating that marriage then and there in order to stop a plague that would kill millions. They do: the man and woman beloved are paired to each other, but someone switched them, so they're together, but the woman imagines it being the other man, and in so doing, betrays her true beloved, thus opening the way to the Hall of the Betrayed and allowing her true love to stop the plague."


What juvenile, melodramatic rot.

Finally, I have to admit that though I guess I'm not missing much, I'm still kind of missing your point. I know that videogames generally these days are little more than every variety of gory murder obsessively repeated. So you're complaining that this constant gore isn't supported by the kind of turgid melodramatic backstory you find in certain fantasy books? Because we anti-gamers have prevented it? I'm sure if some game-maker wanted to serve his violence on a bed of fantasy (sorry, sorry! "Adult" fantasy) he would be able to do so.

Where's the beef?

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to downandoutnow (Reply #30)

Tue Dec 18, 2012, 10:04 PM

34. Google? Wikipedia? "Some professor"? Wikipedia?

Seriously?

Would you like to address a point beyond honestly debatable terminology of classification, or would you like to discuss the topic at hand?

My point is, many, many books (especially the bible) contain far more horrific scenes than any video game, but those who would ban stories are turning to games because they have lost their war on books.

OR they are deflecting from gun violence.

Either way, they have lost their war on imagined media, which is the supercategory we're really talking about (television, movies, radio, books, games, etc).

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to Occulus (Reply #34)

Tue Dec 18, 2012, 10:12 PM

37. So NOW you say that it's "honestly debatable" terminology of classification,

 

while just previously you said:

"...the fact you call the sequence I've related here SCI-FI/Fantasy is telling. It is properly termed "adult fantasy", and your improper classification tells me you don't know what you're talking about.."

So which is it? Honestly debatable, or so clearly "properly termed" adult fantasy that my mislabeling reveals me to be an unschooled know-nothing?



Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to downandoutnow (Reply #37)

Tue Dec 18, 2012, 11:48 PM

40. No,

I won't.

Obvious.

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to downandoutnow (Reply #30)

Tue Dec 18, 2012, 10:29 PM

39. Gotta disagree.

"I know that videogames generally these days are little more than every variety of gory murder obsessively repeated."


So, so wrong. There are plenty of games out there with incredible stories, breathtaking graphics, great complex characters. There are quite a few that are nonviolent. Many are aimed at older audiences and do include violence, even graphic violence, but they're labeled as such. But even those often do have strong stories. Games are an art form at this point. We can talk about the effects of violence, but claiming games generally are little more than every variety of gory murder obsessively repeated is just not the case.

Personally, I am not a fan of most first person shooter games, but I don't think banning them for adults is the answer.

You don't like them, don't get the attraction, fine. Don't think violent games should be available to kids? I'd agree. You wanna tell me, as an adult, that I shouldn't be able to play them? That's where we'd part company.

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to Occulus (Original post)

Tue Dec 18, 2012, 08:44 PM

11. Ha...I was wondering where you were going to go with this after reading the title.

I've read all of Goodkind Seeker novels (except the newest one, which I don't think is part of the whole story). The weird thing is, I really started hating Goodkind and his Gary Stu after Temples of the Wind. I think he just lost it after 9-11. Still read all the books....and Wizards First Rule was a very satisfying story (or so I thought when I read it as a young man.....tried reading it again, and felt the writing wasn't that good, though the story was).

Funny thing is, that the book was also turned into a TV series, which of course couldn't be true to the novel. Even the most violent TV shows, movies, and video games don't come even close to some of the shit I've read in books. Imagine all the Richard torture scenes. Or the violent rapes.

Anyhow, on topic.....I agree with you. Not only that, but in most video games, even the most violent, you are usually the "good guys". And even when your not, most of the violence is silly and gory. I've never played a game that came even close to the psychological and morally repelling torture of some of the novels I've read, or even movies I've watched.

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to Evoman (Reply #11)

Tue Dec 18, 2012, 09:05 PM

20. What Kahlan did to Demmin Nass was horrific

but entirely justified.

Remember what she made him eat, in retribution for all the little boys he raped?

Yeah. That would never be present in a game, ether.

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to Occulus (Original post)

Tue Dec 18, 2012, 08:48 PM

12. I skipped to the bottom for fear of spoilers, but your post is brilliant.

But the last paragraph of your post is brilliant. It is very ironic that the same people who don't consider videogames art and think of them as simply toys are the very reason the medium is having such a hard time telling complex stories and being take as seriously as literature and movies. If a videogame tried to tell as story as dark and violent as say Game of Thrones it would get banned due to outcries of "think of the children."

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to Occulus (Original post)

Tue Dec 18, 2012, 08:53 PM

14. forgive me for saying this, but your synopsis would make a decent video game story

I could easily imagine it as the premise to an expansion for The Witcher, for instance.
And I would probably play it, too.

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to 0rganism (Reply #14)

Tue Dec 18, 2012, 08:57 PM

15. The Witcher is amazing and one of the few games to deserve the M rating.

It isn't mature in the sense that most M rated games are. The killing is never senseless, every action has a consequence. It's one of the best examples of storytelling I've ever seen. It rivals my beloved Knights of the Old Republic for my favorite RPG. Bioware has gone downhill since being bought by EA but CDProjekt has taken up their mantel and ran with it.

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to white_wolf (Reply #15)

Tue Dec 18, 2012, 09:09 PM

22. agreed - one of the few games that can hold its own as interactive literature

For me, it joins the original Fallout, Fallout 2, and KOTOR in a fairly elite group of games that let the player develop a genuinely solid & responsive story.

My only regret is that my video card isn't beefy enough to handle the sequel with grace.

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to 0rganism (Reply #22)

Tue Dec 18, 2012, 09:20 PM

25. Interestingly, there's an entire series of games in which not a shot is fired

and which together tell a really fantastic story of discovery, family, love, civil war, betrayal, and ultimately, triumph of the human spirit.

The "Myst" series:

Myst
Riven
Exile
Uru
Revelation
End of Ages

Once you play through all of them (and that is not not not easy), you end up with a really, really well-told story.

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to Occulus (Reply #25)

Tue Dec 18, 2012, 09:29 PM

27. You can play (and win) Fallout without killing anything too

A fact that occasionally comes up in discussions of the brutality of CRPGs. Every situation can be resolved diplomatically -- of course, it's not easy, but it's quite possible and fun to try.

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to 0rganism (Reply #27)

Tue Dec 18, 2012, 09:34 PM

29. Yes, you can. It's not exactly EASY in a post-apocalypic nuclear wasteland, but you CAN.

Which is the beauty of games like Fallout, and Skyrim, and others- choice.

Then there's Mirror's Edge and its insanely hard Test of Faith achievement. Yes, you can complete the game without even accidentally firing a gun of any kind. Now try.

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to 0rganism (Reply #14)

Tue Dec 18, 2012, 09:03 PM

19. It was tried as the television show "Legend of the Seeker", produced by Disney/ABC

and it was abysmal. It could not follow the story told in the books, because of the story told in the books.

Think on that.

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to Occulus (Reply #19)

Tue Dec 18, 2012, 09:19 PM

24. There's no way Disney/ABC could produce that kind of story convincingly

Especially for a "family-oriented" (aka WASP) television audience.

But there are some video game frameworks out there that could handle it.

Ever try Planescape: Torment, Fallout, or The Witcher? There is some extremely dark material in those games, handled rather gracefully IMHO.

Your larger point remains salient, however: trying to blame video games for real-world violence is horseshit of the most pungent aroma.

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to 0rganism (Reply #24)

Tue Dec 18, 2012, 09:31 PM

28. Fallout is great; I just started replaying New Vegas with the beauty mods

If you haven't, try the closest thing to a perfect game I've ever seen:

the original "Portal".

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to Occulus (Reply #19)

Tue Dec 18, 2012, 10:05 PM

35. That's it!

Was trying to remember where I knew Darken Rahl from. I did watch a bit of Legend of the Seeker, and really wanted to like it, but it felt very garbled. This may be why.

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to TDale313 (Reply #35)

Tue Dec 18, 2012, 10:08 PM

36. It felt garbled because

the writers put every book into a blender, set it to puree, dumped the individual words out on a table, and "wrote" a "script" they called something "inspired by an adaptation of a translation of the Sword of Truth".



It. Was. Awful.

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink

Reply to this thread