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Tue Dec 18, 2012, 03:10 PM

 

How did a 20 year old "visitor" with a rifle get into an elementary school, much less a classroom...

without executing everyone in the office first?

This just couldn't happen at my 6 yo's school, it's not set up that way for access. Does anyone know?

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Reply How did a 20 year old "visitor" with a rifle get into an elementary school, much less a classroom... (Original post)
galileoreloaded Dec 2012 OP
dipsydoodle Dec 2012 #1
Jeff In Milwaukee Dec 2012 #2
teddy51 Dec 2012 #4
HooptieWagon Dec 2012 #13
teddy51 Dec 2012 #14
LiberalArkie Dec 2012 #15
vaberella Dec 2012 #31
unblock Dec 2012 #3
devilgrrl Dec 2012 #5
vaberella Dec 2012 #32
BeyondGeography Dec 2012 #6
obamanut2012 Dec 2012 #7
Jennicut Dec 2012 #8
question everything Dec 2012 #9
Jennicut Dec 2012 #12
Zoeisright Dec 2012 #17
0rganism Dec 2012 #20
HooptieWagon Dec 2012 #22
kestrel91316 Dec 2012 #27
HooptieWagon Dec 2012 #33
kestrel91316 Dec 2012 #34
HooptieWagon Dec 2012 #35
kestrel91316 Dec 2012 #36
moondust Dec 2012 #10
xxqqqzme Dec 2012 #11
Zoeisright Dec 2012 #16
Crepuscular Dec 2012 #18
TorchTheWitch Dec 2012 #21
HooptieWagon Dec 2012 #24
jeff47 Dec 2012 #25
rustydog Dec 2012 #19
BigDemVoter Dec 2012 #23
mucifer Dec 2012 #26
renie408 Dec 2012 #28
Peregrine Dec 2012 #29
craigmatic Dec 2012 #30

Response to galileoreloaded (Original post)

Tue Dec 18, 2012, 03:11 PM

1. He broke / forced his way in.

.

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Response to galileoreloaded (Original post)

Tue Dec 18, 2012, 03:11 PM

2. I thnk he broke out, or shot out, a window to the school

I could be wrong on that. I don't believe he came in through the front door.

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Response to Jeff In Milwaukee (Reply #2)

Tue Dec 18, 2012, 03:13 PM

4. Yep, it was reported that he gained forced access through a window.

 

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Response to teddy51 (Reply #4)

Tue Dec 18, 2012, 03:37 PM

13. I think the window was in the door...

Perhaps it was a glass door?
Anyway, it appears to have been a weak link in school security. Perhaps the entry points should have ballistic glass, and an outer perimeter security fence. That way an person has to be buzzed through at two locations...and intruder would have to force threir way through two separate styles of security points. Breaking through the outer entry gives a little bit more warning to those inside the second entry point...and a few extra moments to call police.

And several of the classroom doors wouldn't lock. I don't know if a malfunction or what. But it would seem reasonable to have a centralized locking system...one button that automatically locks all interior doors, and requires a code to unlock. Not sure how that would fit in with fire code, though.

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Response to HooptieWagon (Reply #13)

Tue Dec 18, 2012, 03:59 PM

14. Seems reasonable to me, short of armed guards at each entry way.

 

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Response to HooptieWagon (Reply #13)

Tue Dec 18, 2012, 04:18 PM

15. Most cities have those facilities already... Just need to move the prisoners out of the city jail

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Response to teddy51 (Reply #4)

Tue Dec 18, 2012, 08:02 PM

31. That's not what I heard. I heard that the police broke the windows.

But he was the one who forced his way...which gave me the impression he shot his way in...but didn't break a window to get in.

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Response to galileoreloaded (Original post)

Tue Dec 18, 2012, 03:12 PM

3. i heard through a window.

most schools don't make effective bunkers.

and he did shoot a number of people in the main office first.

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Response to galileoreloaded (Original post)


Response to devilgrrl (Reply #5)

Tue Dec 18, 2012, 08:03 PM

32. Yup...this is how I understood it. n/t

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Response to galileoreloaded (Original post)

Tue Dec 18, 2012, 03:14 PM

6. The school was built in 1956

They all have glass doors. There's hundreds of schools like that from the postwar era around here in the NYC area.

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Response to galileoreloaded (Original post)

Tue Dec 18, 2012, 03:15 PM

7. He shot out a wondow so he could open the security door

Then killed the office worker and the principal. The principal, from things I've read, was able to hit the intercom, which allowed teachers to hear the gunfire, so some had a heads up.

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Response to galileoreloaded (Original post)

Tue Dec 18, 2012, 03:15 PM

8. Gov. Malloy stated that Adam Lanza shot his way through a window in the front door.

Most schools in Connecticut have a buzzer system. You cannot get in without buzzing in first. My daughters' school in Terryville, CT is like that. Dawn Hochsprung, the principal, had recently ordered the buzzer system put into Sandy Hook.

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Response to Jennicut (Reply #8)

Tue Dec 18, 2012, 03:19 PM

9. The buzz will open the door

Unless the door is an armored one, a high power rifle will put a hole in it.

No, we need an armed guard sitting at a door. He may be shot first, but at least the alarm will sound before the intruder will get too far inside.

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Response to question everything (Reply #9)

Tue Dec 18, 2012, 03:30 PM

12. There is a police officer at almost every school right now in CT.

Most towns are having a police officer at all the schools, my daughters' did the last two days (we are in CT). They are armed. I don't know how long that will last, however. Or if other states will take the same precaution.

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Response to question everything (Reply #9)

Tue Dec 18, 2012, 04:51 PM

17. No, we need to ban guns.

Christ.

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Response to Zoeisright (Reply #17)

Tue Dec 18, 2012, 05:56 PM

20. banning guns won't take them out of circulation right away

until the number of guns floating about in our society diminishes to something around 2 orders of magnitude less than it is now, we'll probably want to consider some additional mitigating factors.

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Response to Zoeisright (Reply #17)

Tue Dec 18, 2012, 07:03 PM

22. You'll have no better luck banning guns, than...

you would locking up all mentally ill people who might possibly become violent. Just isn't going to happen. And arming teachers is just a bad idea all around. Not to mention the worst school massacre wasn't by firearms at all, but by homemade bomb.
No, the best system of prevention would be several levels of security. An outer entrance through a fence, the main entrance into the school building, and the doors into the individual classrooms. Each portal would cause at the very least a delay, giving police and on-campus security time to respond.

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Response to HooptieWagon (Reply #22)

Tue Dec 18, 2012, 07:50 PM

27. We wouldn't need to live in an armed camp if we just made gun owners afraid enough of the

consequences to THEM of their guns falling into the wrong hands.

Just imagine if Ms Lanza had made sure her guns were well and truly secured because if someone got to them and used them to murder, SHE could be tried for murder too.

I know - what a novel concept. Gun owner responsibility and accountability........

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Response to kestrel91316 (Reply #27)

Tue Dec 18, 2012, 08:33 PM

33. Her son tried to buy guns before the shooting,

and was thwarted by the waiting period. So evidently the mother's guns were secured well enough that attempting to buy them was easier than getting hers.
There hasn't been a report released yet saying how he got access to her guns. It's reasonable to assume she thought them secured well enough based on his prior history of no violence. She obviously didn't know he was planning to murder her and 26 others. Obviously, in hindsight, it wouldn't have happened if she had him committed to a secure facility.

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Response to HooptieWagon (Reply #33)

Tue Dec 18, 2012, 08:47 PM

34. She had a duty to secure them. She failed in that duty.

People with mentally ill family members are living in fantasy land if they aren't aware of the risk of violence. If she was in denial, that's inexcusable, too. Gun owners cannot afford the luxury of underestimating the danger of leaving their toys unsecured.

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Response to kestrel91316 (Reply #34)

Tue Dec 18, 2012, 09:50 PM

35. Why did he try to buy guns, if hers were unsecured?

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Response to HooptieWagon (Reply #35)

Wed Dec 19, 2012, 12:59 AM

36. Beats me. Probably didn't want her to know what he was up to.

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Response to galileoreloaded (Original post)

Tue Dec 18, 2012, 03:22 PM

10. I'm so old I can remember

talk of upgrading infrastructure to include roads, bridges, SCHOOLS, etc.

But the billionaires needed tax cuts instead so...

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Response to galileoreloaded (Original post)

Tue Dec 18, 2012, 03:23 PM

11. The school nurse on

60 Minutes said he shot out a window to gain entry. The school doors locked automatically at 9:20, I think she said. The school had auto lock installed on the doors 5 years ago. She also said the school practiced various emergency drills (fire, intrusion, weather) on a rotating, monthly basis. She said the last drill was in November. Her office was connected to the principal's office. the school secretary called out to her after the principal was shot. They both hid in her office closet for nearly 4 hours.

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Response to galileoreloaded (Original post)

Tue Dec 18, 2012, 04:50 PM

16. He shot his way in through the glass in a door

and then executed the principal and school psychologist.

Any more questions? And it sure as fuck could happen at your six year old's school.

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Response to galileoreloaded (Original post)

Tue Dec 18, 2012, 05:33 PM

18. Window glass

Regarding shooting out the window glass, I was thinking about this today. When I was in school (admittedly a long time ago as I'm an old fart) most of the door windows and many of the windows in general were of the type that sandwiched chicken wire (or something akin to it) in between two panes of safety glass. Cosmetically ugly but effective in preventing thrown objects (such as basketballs, etc.) from penetrating even if the glass was shattered. It seems that this somewhat simple and decidedly low-tech protection would have stopped this particular individual from being able to unlock the door after shooting out the glass. Seems like retrofitting exterior school doors with some kind of a similar glass, while expensive, would not be cost prohibitive, especially if it provided some degree of protection from such an event occurring again. Food for thought, anyway.

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Response to Crepuscular (Reply #18)

Tue Dec 18, 2012, 06:10 PM

21. that's how all the windows in the upper grade levels were where I went to school

At that time though, it was just meant to deter thieves from breaking into the school after hours... nobody had to worry about school shootings then. I would imagine though that that kind of glass in the doors would have been pretty effective in keeping Lanza out though.

Our high school also had those big black steel gates (like in the movie Breakfast Club) in various areas so that for after-hours events like sports games or plays or dances, or swimming events, etc. those sections and the bathroom areas would be available but the rest of the school would be sealed off by the gates. In order to get to most of the classroom areas one would have had to go through 3, 4, 5 or more of those gates. They were only shut after-hours, but they could still be used to keep an intruder out of the classroom areas in an emergency.

The elementary school where I went, however, was new when I started 2nd grade... and my dad was the architect. It didn't have the safety glass and the whole school was mostly enormous windows rather than solid walls. The classroom areas were also open style with a big communal area in the middle for each grade. It was a rather revolutionary design at the time, and we all loved it.

It was very unnerving for me to start at the ancient middle school that had small windows, few of them and had the safety glass. The cafeteria, theater, gyms, locker rooms, etc. were all in the basement that also served as a community bomb shelter (we were terrified of "commies" back then). Unfortunately, it all smelled old and moldy, too. After a hard rain, the "girls" gym which was MUCH smaller with a cement floor would get huge leaks, and there would be giant puddles all over the floor and in the girls' locker room. They didn't think much of girls doing any exercise then. It wasn't until my last year there before going on to the high school that they finally started doing mixed gender gym classes and stopped using the old "girls" gym. The girls locker room was still gross though and didn't even have showers.... I guess they assumed females didn't sweat.


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Response to Crepuscular (Reply #18)

Tue Dec 18, 2012, 07:12 PM

24. I don't think he even unlocked the door...

Just stepped through the broken glass. I remember the chicken-wire sandwiched in glass...that would have helped delay him, or even some lightweight bars or grille that would prevent him from walking right on through. That could be added to existing doors.

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Response to Crepuscular (Reply #18)

Tue Dec 18, 2012, 07:29 PM

25. That wire isn't really that strong

It's really only good for preventing cutting the glass, or to help deflect a ball thrown at it.

If you wanted to get through it and had an assault rifle, shoot out the glass, use the butt of the rifle to break through the wire, and then turn the inside door knob.

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Response to galileoreloaded (Original post)

Tue Dec 18, 2012, 05:53 PM

19. He shot through glass to gain entry then killed everyone in the office

Then went into the classrooms and murdered children.

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Response to galileoreloaded (Original post)

Tue Dec 18, 2012, 07:05 PM

23. Didn't he force his way in when somebody else was being buzzed in?

Or did I misunderstand?

P.S. Disregard-- I am mistaken-- I see everybody's posts regarding the fact that he shot out a window. I didn't know that.

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Response to galileoreloaded (Original post)

Tue Dec 18, 2012, 07:38 PM

26. I don't think an arm guard would have stopped him.

He had the element of surprise. I'm sure he was looking for the first person he saw with a weapon to go there first.

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Response to galileoreloaded (Original post)

Tue Dec 18, 2012, 07:53 PM

28. I thought he did kill everybody in the office.

After he shot his way through a locked door.

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Response to galileoreloaded (Original post)

Tue Dec 18, 2012, 07:59 PM

29. At my school

The school is located in a high poverty area. During the day people cut across the school grounds all of the time.

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Response to galileoreloaded (Original post)

Tue Dec 18, 2012, 08:00 PM

30. he probably walked into the office and started shooting. then moved on from there.

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