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Tue Dec 18, 2012, 01:05 PM

"He was burning himself with a lighter"

http://www.thegatewaypundit.com/2012/12/nancy-lanza-feared-son-adam-was-getting-worse-was-burning-himself-with-cigarettes/

"like he was trying to feel pain". Yes, he was. And since he couldn't, he would make others feel pain, starting with someone closest to him. Mom. Shot in her sleep and didn't "feel" the pain. Next?

I was a 1:1 Para to an Autistic, not Aspergers, little boy in Inclusion. The school district wanted the boy placed in an Autism class, but the (wealthy) parents wanted him in an mainstream class, so I became his Para.

Why? While "Johnny was very smart, he was also a biter. I learned very quickly, plus never let my guard down, to read his signs. He would for no reason get a smirk on his face and then start laughing. Then he would bite his own hand so hard the blood would gush out. He would laugh uncontrollably, and then fiercely bite, and not let go of, anyone person, adult or child, he could reach. Johnny was only 5 years old. At the first laugh, I had to distract him, i.e., sometimes even remove him from the class, let him sit looking at tropical fish to calm himself, BEFORE it progressed to the biting (himself and others) stage. Johnny did not take any meds.

Johnny did not wince in pain. He didn't FEEL any pain. That angered him even more. I could see that by the look on his face. If he couldn't get what he wanted (pain), he would make OTHERS feel pain.

IMHO, the mass murders in Newton were the next stage to make others feel pain because Lanza himself couldn't (burnings). Maybe the violent video games (like the laughing) in his case was the very first sign.

Unfortunately, he was given the means (Mom's guns) to advance to the final stage.

Never, never let these behaviors progress. They can be stopped LONG before. We used to say, "an ounce of prevention is worth a pound of cure".

Total breakdown on so many levels, not just one.





45 replies, 3120 views

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Arrow 45 replies Author Time Post
Reply "He was burning himself with a lighter" (Original post)
HockeyMom Dec 2012 OP
Recursion Dec 2012 #1
JaneQPublic Dec 2012 #8
Mass Dec 2012 #2
rustydog Dec 2012 #4
Mass Dec 2012 #7
rbixby Dec 2012 #9
Mass Dec 2012 #10
Zoeisright Dec 2012 #34
rbixby Dec 2012 #37
Jamastiene Dec 2012 #16
hedgehog Dec 2012 #18
Orrex Dec 2012 #24
murielm99 Dec 2012 #29
yardwork Dec 2012 #30
HereSince1628 Dec 2012 #3
FarCenter Dec 2012 #11
HereSince1628 Dec 2012 #39
HockeyMom Dec 2012 #5
Mass Dec 2012 #6
HockeyMom Dec 2012 #13
HereSince1628 Dec 2012 #15
HockeyMom Dec 2012 #17
HereSince1628 Dec 2012 #23
Orrex Dec 2012 #26
HockeyMom Dec 2012 #40
HereSince1628 Dec 2012 #41
HockeyMom Dec 2012 #42
HereSince1628 Dec 2012 #43
HereSince1628 Dec 2012 #14
HockeyMom Dec 2012 #21
HereSince1628 Dec 2012 #25
HockeyMom Dec 2012 #28
HereSince1628 Dec 2012 #32
yardwork Dec 2012 #33
malaise Dec 2012 #12
HockeyMom Dec 2012 #22
malaise Dec 2012 #31
hedgehog Dec 2012 #19
yardwork Dec 2012 #35
Brickbat Dec 2012 #20
nolabear Dec 2012 #27
mcctatas Dec 2012 #36
HockeyMom Dec 2012 #38
mcctatas Dec 2012 #44
mcctatas Dec 2012 #45

Response to HockeyMom (Original post)

Tue Dec 18, 2012, 01:08 PM

1. I had read before that he had some sort of analgesic condition but didn't see anything else about it

That's so weird.

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Response to Recursion (Reply #1)

Tue Dec 18, 2012, 01:55 PM

8. Congenital Analgesia

Sometimes known as Congenital Insensitivity to Pain (CIP), it was probably in part the reason his baby sitter had to watch him every second. Presumably, he could set his hand on the stove and not realize it until he could smell the burning flesh.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Congenital_analgesia

BTW, this condition has nothing to do with Autism or Asperger's.

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Response to HockeyMom (Original post)

Tue Dec 18, 2012, 01:11 PM

2. More crap about this story. F*ck those who somehow try to link autism and this tragedy.

Please stop. Our kids do not deserve that every wacko who think they know about autism but clearly have no idea make a connection.

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Response to Mass (Reply #2)

Tue Dec 18, 2012, 01:35 PM

4. Wow rudeness runs rampant

Thisis a good post, why attack the messenger with name-calling.

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Response to rustydog (Reply #4)

Tue Dec 18, 2012, 01:43 PM

7. What makes this a good post?

The link between these killings and autism? Because this is what I object to.

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Response to Mass (Reply #7)

Tue Dec 18, 2012, 02:01 PM

9. Given the background, I think its at least worthy of discussion

its by no means saying that everyone with autism is a ticking time bomb.

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Response to rbixby (Reply #9)


Response to rbixby (Reply #9)

Tue Dec 18, 2012, 04:31 PM

34. Do a little research before you open your yap.

Autistic people are NOT violent.

Christ on a crutch.

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Response to Zoeisright (Reply #34)

Tue Dec 18, 2012, 04:51 PM

37. I'm not trying to be a jerk

Perhaps I'm not as informed as I should be about this issue, I'm just saying that if this is the explanation going on about the shooter, then it should be talked about, one way or the other.

I understand you feel strongly about this, but this kind of response doesn't really warrant any kind of discussion about this at all. I didn't realize I was expected to be an expert on every issue before I post anything on here.

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Response to Mass (Reply #2)

Tue Dec 18, 2012, 02:43 PM

16. Experts are saying left and right that there is NO link between

autism and violence. Yet, here on DU, you'd think God himself said there is.

So far, on DU, I have seen blame being placed on:
-Guns (probably the one that makes the most sense)
-"The Mentally Ill" (as if we are ALL sitting around plotting the kill everyone in sight at all times)
-The South (nothing like blaming the south for a shooting that happened in the North...whatever, DU)
-SSRIs (antidepressants that help millions of people who are NONviolent)
-Video Games/movies/books/etc. (I'm waiting for an organized book video game burning to show up on DU anytime now)
-Autism ( Experts are repeating left and right that there is NO link between Autism or Asperger's and violence, but try telling that to DU)
-Hunters (I don't hunt and don't really like it except in cases of hunger, but last I checked, there are no camouflaged hunters taking to the streets to kill every person in sight either. If I see a hunting blind set up next to a shopping mall, I might change my mind on that. Otherwise, I see no hunters out there shooting up schools and malls)
-Adam Lanza's mother (maybe, maybe not. I'm still waiting for actual factual information to come from the police, themselves, before I go off half cocked based on what the same people who said his brother was the shooter and posted his brother's pictures all over the internet report. There is a LOT of irresponsible reporting going on right now. I think even MSM are pulling half of it out of their asses at this point)

And not even ONE OP has been made placing the blame on:
Adam Lanza, the ADULT who IS responsible for this horrific mass shooting.

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Response to Jamastiene (Reply #16)

Tue Dec 18, 2012, 03:15 PM

18. ^^^^^^^^^^

If we admit that Adam was normal, we admit that anyone of us could commit evil.

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Response to Jamastiene (Reply #16)

Tue Dec 18, 2012, 03:54 PM

24. Haven't you heard?

Thimerosal causes autism which causes violence.

Therefore thimerosal causes violence.

QED!

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Response to Jamastiene (Reply #16)

Tue Dec 18, 2012, 04:26 PM

29. Thanks for the most sensible post I have seen here in days. n/t

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Response to Jamastiene (Reply #16)

Tue Dec 18, 2012, 04:27 PM

30. Good post. Most of those reasons are being floated by the NRA to distract from the guns.

The firearms industry is highly lucrative, much more so than the video games industry. Way more than libraries, teachers, and mental health counselors. Mothers are always a convenient target.

I would be willing to listen to the possibility that psychoactive drugs played a role if we see any evidence whatsoever that Adam Lanza was on any prescription meds. So far it is nothing but speculation.

Autism, Asperger's, congenital issues that include lack of pain receptors, depression, anxiety - none of these issues are correlated with violence. None.

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Response to HockeyMom (Original post)

Tue Dec 18, 2012, 01:23 PM

3. What some of the experts say about autism and violence...

As gateway pundit might not be the best most credible source of information on the subject.

-----------------------------------------------
http://health.usnews.com/health-news/news/articles/2012/12/16/aspergers-autism-not-linked-to-violence-experts

Asperger's, Autism Not Linked to Violence: Experts

SUNDAY, Dec. 16 (HealthDay News) -- Despite media reports alleging that the gunman involved in the Connecticut school shootings had Asperger's syndrome, experts were quick to assert Sunday that there is no link between the condition -- a mild form of autism -- and violence.

"There really is no evidence that links autism or Asperger's to violence," said Geraldine Dawson, chief science officer at the nonprofit advocacy group Autism Speaks and a professor of psychiatry at the University of North Carolina at Chapel Hill.

snip
-----------------------------------------------
http://www.rttnews.com/2024900/experts-weigh-in-on-asperger-s-autism-and-violence-following-sandy-hook-shooting.aspx?type=ht

Experts Weigh In On Asperger's/Autism And Violence Following Sandy Hook Shooting

12/17/2012 1:35 PM ET

There is no clear link between violent tendencies and Asperger's syndrome or Autism says a new report from researchers at the University of California. The statement comes following widespread speculation about the mental state of the Sandy Hook shooter Adam Lanza, who allegedly had been diagnosed with Asperger's.

According to Elizabeth Laugeson, a researcher at UCLA, his possible diagnosis should not be immediately linked to his actions: "There really is no clear association between Asperger's and violent behavior," she says.

And though previous studies have found an increase in aggressive behavior for those with Autism, such extreme violence in uncommon:

"We are not talking about the kind of planned and intentional type of violence we have seen at Newtown," Eric Butter of Nationwide Children's Hospital in Columbus, Ohio tells usatoday.com. "These types of tragedies have occurred at the hands of individuals with many different types of personalities and psychological profiles.

----------------------------------------------------------------
http://link.springer.com/content/pdf/10.1007%2FBF02207331

Journal of Autism and Developmental Disorders, Vol. 21, No. 3, 1991
Brief Report: Violence in Asperger Syndrome,
A Critique 1
M. Ghaziuddin, 2 Luke Tsai, and N. Ghaziuddin
University of Michigan Medical Center, Ann Arbor

<snip>

...These results do not support the speculation that violence is common
in Asperger syndrome.

It may be argued that some of the excluded studies may have contained patients with Asperger syndrome involved in violent behavior.
<snip>
However, even if all the above patients are included, the number of violent patients would rise to 11 out of a total sample of 197 (5.58%). It is not known how many of child and adolescent psychiatric patients are involved in violent behavior as little systematic research has been done in the field of child and adolescent aggression (Garrison et al., 1990). Therefore, comparison cannot be made at this stage between Asperger syndrome and other psychiatric populations, so far as the prevalence of violence is concerned.

On the other hand, violence occurs quite commonly in the general population, whose point-prevalence depends on a variety of factors such as age and sex. For example, in the United States, the 1987 rates of violent crimes (rape, robbery, and assault) per 100 persons for the age groups 12-15 years, 16-19 years, and 20-24 years, have been established to be about 6, 6.5, and 7% respectively 0d.S. Bureau of Justice
Statistics, 1987).

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Response to HereSince1628 (Reply #3)

Tue Dec 18, 2012, 02:30 PM

11. An acquaintance put his son in a group home because he and his wife could not cope with tantrums

Once the kid got older and stronger, they had no other choice, given his behavior.

The continued denial that autistic children are not a danger to others because of violet behavior does not agree with experience.

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Response to FarCenter (Reply #11)

Tue Dec 18, 2012, 05:01 PM

39. I'm not denying I'm sharing what the experts say with actuarial data

not anecdotes. Dozens of anecdotes can be posted in this thread. They can all be true.
And yet they won't counter population studies.

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Response to HockeyMom (Original post)

Tue Dec 18, 2012, 01:36 PM

5. A person can have MULTIPLE disorders

A person can have Autism AND others. We don't know if he had others. Aspergers might have been a misdiagnosis.

At any rate, he was BURNING himself (normal?), obviously getting worse, and nothing was done about it.

It seems to me, there are a lot of people here, gunners, who apparently think if he wasn't adjudicated criminally insane, he should have had access to GUNS, and that his Mom was in the right also.

The solution is ARMED teachers, not better access to mental heath care, or gun controls.







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Response to HockeyMom (Reply #5)

Tue Dec 18, 2012, 01:43 PM

6. So, why do you and others continue to post about Asperger and autism.

Sorry, but this is the issue here. Burning himself could be an autistic behavior (or something else). Try to read about autism before posting that.

I agree with the rest of your message (gun control), or at least I think I agree, but I am so fed up to see people link this behavior and autism. Frankly, I am even unsure what you posted is legitimate, given the sources.

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Response to Mass (Reply #6)

Tue Dec 18, 2012, 02:32 PM

13. They can get violent

Read about it? I have SEEN it myself. That is why they receive treatment. Everyone gets angry and frustrated. It is learning how to channel anger/agressve into positive solutions.

That boy I worked with was diagnosed with Austism, both by the schooll, and privately by his wealthy parents. I was required to read his IEP. HIPPA does not apply if a person has a right to know. Teachers and TA's have that right to know.

His parents hired both a full time Nanny AND after school private therapist at home for him. His parents did not take him around crowds of people, which was a problem in a school setting. Read your article and you will see that one.

Before I could work in the schools I had to be certified in SCIP techniques. Why would we need that if they never became violent? No one was allowed with these kids unless they were certified. We also were required to carry RADIOS on our person, to contact the ABS if they "went off". When I worked with 11 and 12 boys, one very big 12 year old, picked up a table and threw it as us. He was diagnosed with Autism, and nothing else. I had to read the IEP's of every child I worked with.

Ok, believe what you read on the Net. I will be believe what my own two eyes have seen. I am make just making this up to put out bad information about Austism.

Do you have a child with Austism? I certainly don't hate, or want to give out wrong information. I am telling my experiences as a Para. I would never work in this field if I didn't care about them, but you can walk around with blinders on and say violence cannot happen.




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Response to HockeyMom (Reply #13)

Tue Dec 18, 2012, 02:42 PM

15. I think the phrase you used "if they went off" may be huristic...

Isn't the hostility of autistics, even in schools, usually impulsive, reactive and immediate subsequent to a trigger?

Did your students plan for days what an outburst would be before they "went off?"


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Response to HereSince1628 (Reply #15)

Tue Dec 18, 2012, 03:08 PM

17. "having a BEHAVIOR"

We used that too but it was longer to say, going off was easer to say. When we radioed the ABS, you do know who that is, we did use these code terms, because it was faster and easier to saying. We were going to get on the radio and say Joey is doing throwing a table, screaming, and destroying the room? No, it was we needed intervention fast, or we wouldn't BE on the radio at all.

Am I giving out some "secrets" here? You never heard of this????? Oh, it wasn't just PARAS who said and did this, teachers did also. Whoever got out their radio faster.

Sorry, if you think this is horrific. I suggest you watch the Willowbrook or one of the others, to see what IS bad. I was required to watch those for in service year after year.

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Response to HockeyMom (Reply #17)

Tue Dec 18, 2012, 03:50 PM

23. You missed my point. Went off seems like a description that characterizes the behavior

it seems to suggest that the behavior is reactive, rather than planned for days and then deliberately executed.

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Response to HereSince1628 (Reply #23)

Tue Dec 18, 2012, 04:15 PM

26. Two questions are being discussed simultaneously

1. Did the shooter display behaviors consistent with autistic spectrum disorder?

2. Do some people with autistic spectrum disorder engage in violent behavior?

You seem to be asking if the shooter's pre-planned and carefully executed massacre is consistent with an autistic outburst. The seemingly obvious answer is no.

But the way you're asking the question, at least to me, seems to suggest that you think Hockeymom doesn't know what she''s talking about, which sounds a little insulting.


I'm not saying that you're wrong, but the way that you're asking the question doesn't appear to be moving the conversation forward.


My $0.02.

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Response to HereSince1628 (Reply #15)

Tue Dec 18, 2012, 05:02 PM

40. Read my other post

My Bi-Polar daughter "went off" also.

I guess I didn't treat her right, either?

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Response to HockeyMom (Reply #40)

Tue Dec 18, 2012, 05:03 PM

41. I don't think I said anything about how you treat anyone.

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Response to HereSince1628 (Reply #41)

Tue Dec 18, 2012, 05:18 PM

42. Last post on this

I would NEVER say that my child with a mental disability was incapable of harming herself, or others. As an almost middle aged adult now, she herself says the same. We are not soothsayers. No person is "cured" of mental disabilities, any more than an alcoholic is "cured" of their disability. They can simply CONTROL their alcoholism, or mental disability.

If you think anything else about your children, you are in DENIAL.

Call me a "bad Para" AND a "bad mother", but I would hope I am a realistic, and informed one,

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Response to HockeyMom (Reply #42)

Tue Dec 18, 2012, 05:30 PM

43. I think you've put a lot of words in my mouth.

But I hope it helped you find some catharsis


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Response to HockeyMom (Reply #5)

Tue Dec 18, 2012, 02:37 PM

14. Yes and their are also mutliple types of aggression

that are associated with a dozen or so different disorders. So it really isn't a straight path from he burned himself to he committed mass murder because he was autistic.

If we are going to arm the teachers and expect them to stand in the line of defense, shouldn't they also get full body armor, including helmets and face shields, and tactical radios clipped to their ears?










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Response to HereSince1628 (Reply #14)

Tue Dec 18, 2012, 03:37 PM

21. I am not in favor of arming any school staff

An armed law informant officer is fine, outside, in a room, or walking the halls. Not a teacher. WHY should they have to be POLICE too?

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Response to HockeyMom (Reply #21)

Tue Dec 18, 2012, 03:56 PM

25. Oh, you said that in 5. You were being cynical/sarcastic or something

Spending money on school hall cops seems like an inefficient use of taxpayer money but maybe that's were America is.

At least one attack on a school took place in a school yard. How many cops do you thing should be assigned to the perimeter during recess and during arrival and departure times?

Do you envision for profit schools getting public subsidies for police in their hallways and public access points?

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Response to HereSince1628 (Reply #25)

Tue Dec 18, 2012, 04:21 PM

28. Teachers also aren't on the playground or in

cafeteria. You have Lunch Ladies and Adies there. Guess you will have to require them to CARRY guns too, right?

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Response to HockeyMom (Reply #28)

Tue Dec 18, 2012, 04:30 PM

32. I'm not the one who suggested they should carry...you did in 5

and I said if they are expected to do such things they should have the rest of the tactical team equipment

Just pushing the absurdity.









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Response to HockeyMom (Reply #5)

Tue Dec 18, 2012, 04:31 PM

33. The solution is armed teachers? I disagree.

I'm sure that the NRA would love it. A whole new market for their highly profitable products.

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Response to HockeyMom (Original post)

Tue Dec 18, 2012, 02:31 PM

12. My question is was the absence of pain linked

to the medication he was given?

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Response to malaise (Reply #12)

Tue Dec 18, 2012, 03:41 PM

22. He took no meds

He was also not vaccinated. It was against his parents beliefs. This was a problem with his biting others. His teacher and I were informed of this. Another reason there was concern about his biting others.

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Response to HockeyMom (Reply #22)

Tue Dec 18, 2012, 04:30 PM

31. Thanks

One of my nephews used to bite his little brother until I arrived for a visit - I bit him after he bit his brother for the second time in my presence that he screamed for his mother and never bit another person again in life.

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Response to HockeyMom (Original post)

Tue Dec 18, 2012, 03:17 PM

19. Biting the nearest person or tossing a table is not the same as shooting your mother,

then driving (?) to a nearby school and methodically stalking more victims.

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Response to hedgehog (Reply #19)

Tue Dec 18, 2012, 04:32 PM

35. An excellent point. Not to mention that it isn't possible to shoot dozens of people within minutes

if your weapons are a table or a lighter, rather than an arsenal of semi-automatic weapons and thousands of rounds of ammunition.

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Response to HockeyMom (Original post)

Tue Dec 18, 2012, 03:20 PM

20. There's a big difference between not feeling physical pain -- which is extremely rare -- and not

feeling emotional pain, which can cause self-injury in an effort to "feel something." And people with autism or Asperger's are perfectly capable of feeling emotional (and, obvs, physical) pain. You're conflating a lot of things, it seems.

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Response to HockeyMom (Original post)

Tue Dec 18, 2012, 04:19 PM

27. I know a lot about autism. This post shocks me. Here's why.

Autism is thought to be a defect in the filtering mechanism that allows neurotypical people to put some stimuli in the foreground and some in the background in order to move through life. Imagine the air on your skin, your clothes, each and every sound, the light, everything hitting you with the same force. Imagine trying to use anything to be the thing you can focus on to exclude other painful stimulation. It might be a repetitive motion, an action you latch onto that lets you feel organized, etc. being pulled away from that is like having your skin remOved, psychologically. Panic ensues, and wildly panicked behavior.

This is FAR different from thought out, planned violence. Completely different. I have no idea if Adam Lanza had concurring disorders but the equivocation between a five year old who does something out of the rage a small autistic panicked child might feel and a young man who had the presence of mind to do what he did is egregious and stunningly ill informed.

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Response to HockeyMom (Original post)

Tue Dec 18, 2012, 04:36 PM

36. just wow, wtf?

as the mother of a child on the spectrum and someone who has worked in a professional capacity with others on the spectrum for 20+ years this kind of shit is maddening. Your experience as a para with one child means less than nothing to me, loose talk like this helps stigmatize a group of people that does not need the negative attention and reckless speculation.

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Response to mcctatas (Reply #36)

Tue Dec 18, 2012, 04:59 PM

38. Oh, wasn't just ONE child

and I knew when I posted this that this would be the reaction.

I am the mother of a Bi-Polar daughter and lived with her 24/7 for 28 years. I would tell it that it is with that disorder also. AND I know my now adult daughter would, does, also. I raised the riot act to my husband to LOCK UP his guns, when she was living in our house.

She has tried to commit sucide multiple times, and tried to strangle her younger sister. Meds made it WORSE.

I guess I am not "defending" her, or people with her condition, either, RIGHT?

You don't want to "blame" mental disabilites, and the gunners, don't want to blame guns. DENIAL, for both issues.

We will not solve this unless BOTH are addressed.






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Response to HockeyMom (Reply #38)

Tue Dec 18, 2012, 05:57 PM

44. you are using one example to make conclusions about autism spectrum disorder

that are simply not true for the vast majority of the population affected. I apologize for my tone earlier but i have seen this time and again and it does a great disservice to the population. In many cases, biting occurs in the very young, usually as a coping mechanism for sensory issues and itit is almost always extinguished before adolescence, often without any intervention. I'm not sure where you're conclusion that he didn't feel anything comes from as usually those on the spectrum tend to suffer from sensory overload but i will take your word for out since all kid are different, however, i know my own son was able to articulate that he bit.when it was "too loud" (he it's now 10 and completely mainstreamed without assistance)

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Response to HockeyMom (Original post)

Tue Dec 18, 2012, 10:03 PM

45. he says it much more articulately than i ever could

I think itís incredibly damaging. People with Aspergerís are already dealing with a lot of social prejudice out there; the last thing they need is more of it being foisted on them in this way. But I think it is very difficult to get around it Ė thereís a world of people who are very ready to blame. Itís always comforting to people to have a diagnosis. His problem is that he had this thing. Itís called Aspergerís, and if you donít have it then youíre OK. He had this issue and this is what the issue was. Most people with Aspergerís are not going to do anything like this, and I think itís very dangerous to have a public perception that they are or that they might. I worry about that a lot. Itís a troubling direction for this to go.


http://www.salon.com/2012/12/19/andrew_solomon_theres_no_meaning_to_be_found_in_sandy_hook/

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