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Tue Dec 18, 2012, 11:16 AM

Concealed carry holder shoots man over slow pizza complaints

Last edited Wed Dec 19, 2012, 11:49 AM - Edit history (2)

Sorry if this is old news, I can't search. It's too good not to post, however. Think if other people had been armed here. Bonus Stand Your Ground lunacy, too!

http://www.tampabay.com/news/publicsafety/crime/article1266589.ece

Man shot at St. Pete pizza joint had been complaining about slow service

By Kameel Stanley and Stephen Nohlgren, Times Staff Writers

ST. PETERSBURG Florida's controversial "stand your ground" law has been cited in hundreds of cases. People have used it to justify shooting, stabbing, killing and maiming would-be intruders, romantic competitors and rival gang members.

And on Sunday, at a pizza joint in St. Petersburg, a man tried to use it as justification for shooting another customer who was yelling at workers because he wasn't getting his order fast enough.

63 replies, 4528 views

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Arrow 63 replies Author Time Post
Reply Concealed carry holder shoots man over slow pizza complaints (Original post)
BayouBengal07 Dec 2012 OP
Aristus Dec 2012 #1
TheCowsCameHome Dec 2012 #21
jpak Dec 2012 #2
Recursion Dec 2012 #4
jpak Dec 2012 #8
Recursion Dec 2012 #10
Recursion Dec 2012 #3
BayouBengal07 Dec 2012 #5
Recursion Dec 2012 #7
BayouBengal07 Dec 2012 #9
A Simple Game Dec 2012 #44
unblock Dec 2012 #11
LanternWaste Dec 2012 #22
RomneyLies Dec 2012 #6
JVS Dec 2012 #12
Exultant Democracy Dec 2012 #13
JVS Dec 2012 #15
Zoeisright Dec 2012 #23
JVS Dec 2012 #24
rhett o rick Dec 2012 #39
Voice for Peace Dec 2012 #48
Orrex Dec 2012 #50
muriel_volestrangler Dec 2012 #26
Ed Suspicious Dec 2012 #47
Bjorn Against Dec 2012 #63
Piazza Riforma Dec 2012 #16
JVS Dec 2012 #18
joeybee12 Dec 2012 #19
JVS Dec 2012 #20
Jeff In Milwaukee Dec 2012 #37
callous taoboy Dec 2012 #27
rhett o rick Dec 2012 #42
Piazza Riforma Dec 2012 #57
AlexSatan Dec 2012 #30
bongbong Dec 2012 #32
Piazza Riforma Dec 2012 #56
AlexSatan Dec 2012 #58
callous taoboy Dec 2012 #62
Ikonoklast Dec 2012 #14
callous taoboy Dec 2012 #25
Mariana Dec 2012 #38
rustydog Dec 2012 #17
bongbong Dec 2012 #34
rustydog Dec 2012 #35
bongbong Dec 2012 #36
aquart Dec 2012 #53
thelordofhell Dec 2012 #28
Speck Tater Dec 2012 #29
upaloopa Dec 2012 #31
GreenPartyVoter Dec 2012 #33
Ikonoklast Dec 2012 #40
GreenPartyVoter Dec 2012 #45
KansDem Dec 2012 #54
Ganja Ninja Dec 2012 #41
Poll_Blind Dec 2012 #43
Sancho Dec 2012 #46
ReRe Dec 2012 #49
liberal N proud Dec 2012 #51
SummerSnow Dec 2012 #52
amuse bouche Dec 2012 #55
Rex Dec 2012 #59
HughBeaumont Dec 2012 #60
Jennicut Dec 2012 #61

Response to BayouBengal07 (Original post)

Tue Dec 18, 2012, 11:20 AM

1. Now, if only the pizza had had a gun, it could have silenced both of those nit-wits.

It's such a joy to see how well guns solve irritating little inconveniences...

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Response to Aristus (Reply #1)

Tue Dec 18, 2012, 12:36 PM

21. Does the "everything on it special" include a Glock?

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Response to BayouBengal07 (Original post)

Tue Dec 18, 2012, 11:20 AM

2. Where are all the SYG defenders?

Let them step up and tell us once again why SYG is needed in FL or anyplace else.

yup

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Response to jpak (Reply #2)

Tue Dec 18, 2012, 11:23 AM

4. Well, if the police determined deadly force wasn't justified

something tells me he'll have a hard time persuading a jury it was.

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Response to Recursion (Reply #4)

Tue Dec 18, 2012, 11:27 AM

8. But...but...but... SYG was the justification for this shooting according to the shooter

....a "law abiding" CCW holder.

SYG is the reason it happened.

Gun play apology fail.

yup

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Response to jpak (Reply #8)

Tue Dec 18, 2012, 11:34 AM

10. And, yes, another reason to repeal SYG laws

They further muddy already muddy situations. Here's hoping the guy goes to jail and loses his CCW license.

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Response to BayouBengal07 (Original post)

Tue Dec 18, 2012, 11:20 AM

3. Umm.. "Man shot while attacking another man", you mean? (nt)

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Response to Recursion (Reply #3)

Tue Dec 18, 2012, 11:24 AM

5. Where was the proportionate threat?

If you can find justification in either SYG or concealed carry laws to shoot someone over a raised fist/shoving, I'm all ears. I believe, in any event, you're supposed to attempt to flee before "standing your ground," anyway.

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Response to BayouBengal07 (Reply #5)

Tue Dec 18, 2012, 11:26 AM

7. Me? I think SYG laws are stupid, and the police on the scene arrested the shooter

I believe, in any event, you're supposed to attempt to flee before "standing your ground," anyway.

No, what it did is remove the duty to retreat.

Though for that matter I don't know what the implications of SYG are in non-fatal situations like this.

I just thought the headline was kind of dishonest: he didn't shoot him for complaining about the service, he shot him when he assaulted him (if the story is accurate).

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Response to Recursion (Reply #7)

Tue Dec 18, 2012, 11:31 AM

9. I took my thread title from the opening of the article.

I can see what you mean about the distinction between the initial argument and the escalation. Point taken.

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Response to Recursion (Reply #7)

Tue Dec 18, 2012, 02:06 PM

44. Funny here I thought he shot him after he stuck his nose where it didn't belong.

He had no quarrel with the person he shot, he started one.

Now where have I heard this story before?

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Response to Recursion (Reply #3)

Tue Dec 18, 2012, 11:37 AM

11. from the story, it appears the police at the scene disagree with this characterization.

it appears that the shooter deliberately put himself in a position where a reasonable person might feel threatened (he accosted another patron and was yelling at him and was apparently in his face). when the victim took physical but clearly non-life threatening action, the shooter pounced on the presumed opportunity to attempt a legal homicide under his own armchair legal analysis.

is the world really a better place if people this concealed lethal weapons go around sticking their faces right up in other peoples' faces and essentially shouting "TOUCH ME AND YOU DIE!! TOUCH ME AND YOU DIE!!"

i could be wrong but i don't think that's what "stand your ground" is meant to be all about.

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Response to Recursion (Reply #3)

Tue Dec 18, 2012, 12:47 PM

22. And yet another relevant qualifier would be...

And yet another relevant qualifier would be, ""We determined it did not reach a level where deadly force was required." Whether you meant that or not...

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Response to BayouBengal07 (Original post)

Tue Dec 18, 2012, 11:25 AM

6. The inly way to resolve this is MOAR GUNZ

 

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Response to BayouBengal07 (Original post)

Tue Dec 18, 2012, 11:41 AM

12. Impatient asshole shoves someone and gets shot.



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Response to JVS (Reply #12)

Tue Dec 18, 2012, 11:47 AM

13. post seems little twisted, didn't know we endorsed shooting impatient people

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Response to Exultant Democracy (Reply #13)

Tue Dec 18, 2012, 11:56 AM

15. I don't endorse it, but if you go around getting in arguments and escalate it...

you should expect it. And as the nopity icon suggests, I'm not going to feel sorry for you.

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Response to JVS (Reply #15)

Tue Dec 18, 2012, 12:49 PM

23. If you get into an argument you should EXPECT to get shot?

What the fuck is wrong with you? That is the goddamn dumbest thing I have EVER read.

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Response to Zoeisright (Reply #23)

Tue Dec 18, 2012, 12:50 PM

24. If you escalate arguments to fights, but go ahead and rewrite it to suit you.

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Response to JVS (Reply #24)

Tue Dec 18, 2012, 01:52 PM

39. First of all there is no indication that the victim started an argument with the shooter.

Looks to me like the victim was arguing with the establishment about service. The shooter, feeling brave because he knows he has a gun and the SYG law behind him, decided to straighten this guy out and started an argument with him. The shooter started an argument with someone that he knew was already in a bad mood.

What I hear you saying is that the victim deserved it.

The SYG laws encourage cowards to bully.

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Response to rhett o rick (Reply #39)

Tue Dec 18, 2012, 02:15 PM

48. well put

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Response to rhett o rick (Reply #39)

Tue Dec 18, 2012, 02:38 PM

50. Nicely said. In addition...

Used in this way, wherein the concerned citizen incites an argument knowing that he has his CCL to back him up, would likely qualify as 2nd or 3rd degree murder (at least) if he killed the victim & the SYG defense fell through.

It's an idiotic law and should be eliminated.

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Response to Zoeisright (Reply #23)

Tue Dec 18, 2012, 12:53 PM

26. Them's fightin' words. Now, if I can just this gun to shoot through the intertubez ...

... then you'll be sorry. Gentlemen, we can't have fighting here - this is DU.

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Response to JVS (Reply #15)

Tue Dec 18, 2012, 02:13 PM

47. This is insanity. Right here. People need to call this attitude out for what it is.

A gunslingers, testosterone driven insanity. You should never have the expectation of getting shot. Period.

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Response to JVS (Reply #15)

Tue Dec 18, 2012, 08:26 PM

63. Holy crap, I sure as hell don't want you owning a gun

If you think people who get into arguments should expect to be shot you are the last person who I would want owning a gun. People with your kind of attitude are the reason we need gun control badly.

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Response to JVS (Reply #12)

Tue Dec 18, 2012, 12:10 PM

16. Two things:

 

First: Shooter could have not involved himself in the patron-restaurant dispute. I believe the term for that is "Mind his own business".

Second: I pity the idea that the shooter and people who agree with his nuttery are such wimps that they have to respond to a shove with a gun.

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Response to Piazza Riforma (Reply #16)

Tue Dec 18, 2012, 12:22 PM

18. Point one: Most people do mind their own business, and intervention in one's "business" often...

indicates that one has become obnoxious beyond even the fairly lenient standards that pass for decent behavior. At some point being an asshole effects everyone in the store and not just the workers of the store, who probably deal with more than enough shit already.

Point two: I kind of see the point here, but on the other hand I see no reason why someone who is having a dispute with another should be expected to tolerate a physical altercation. How much of a beating do you believe you should have to tolerate for confronting someone who is behaving like a jerk?

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Response to JVS (Reply #18)

Tue Dec 18, 2012, 12:25 PM

19. What horseshit...you're trying to justify a shooting...

And since the police don't seem to believe the guy shot was the instigator, what makes you believe that? Oh, right...your undying love of guns and how wonderful they are.

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Response to joeybee12 (Reply #19)

Tue Dec 18, 2012, 12:33 PM

20. The police didn't say they didn't believe he was the instigator. They said they believe that the...

response was disproportionate. I'll have to defer to their judgement because they talked to the witnesses.

Have fun with the mind-reading though.

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Response to JVS (Reply #20)

Tue Dec 18, 2012, 01:48 PM

37. The guy who was shot wasn't charged with anything.

So that would indicate that the police don't believe he was the instigator. No mind-reading necessary. Just....um....reading.

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Response to joeybee12 (Reply #19)

Tue Dec 18, 2012, 12:55 PM

27. Agreed- Total horseshit. Shooter felt emboldened (I wonder why) enough to also be a horse's ass.

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Response to JVS (Reply #18)

Tue Dec 18, 2012, 02:03 PM

42. Are you rationalizing a justification for the shooting?

Suggesting that the shooter only confronted the victim when he got to a point of annoying the other customers? You dont know that. Even if he was annoying the rest of the establishment, that is not a reason to confront him. Confronting him will only escalate the problem. Call the police.

"How much of a beating do you believe you should blah blah blah". That's absurd. I can see a person that might try to calm someone down that is obviously upset. If they dont appreciate it and want to fight, THEN YOU FUCKIN LEAVE. You dont pull out a gun and shoot. SYG laws give courage to cowards.

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Response to JVS (Reply #18)

Tue Dec 18, 2012, 03:26 PM

57. Explain to me then why he couldn't have

 

gone outside and called the police if the guy was becoming that belligerent?

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Response to Piazza Riforma (Reply #16)

Tue Dec 18, 2012, 12:59 PM

30. Mind your own business

 

Great policy.

http://www.chron.com/CDA/archives/archive.mpl/1986_267429/neighbors-ignore-rape-victim-s-screams.html

I assume the "mind your own business" also should apply to those who want to keep law-abiding citizens from legally carrying guns?

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Response to AlexSatan (Reply #30)

Tue Dec 18, 2012, 01:34 PM

32. Huh?

 

So yelling about late pizza is like rape?

The Delicate Flowers are bending over backwards to justify their Precious-Worship.

Not that they don't do that on 24x7....

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Response to AlexSatan (Reply #30)

Tue Dec 18, 2012, 03:24 PM

56. Far beyons apples and oranges

 

Are you really sick enough to compare someone who ignores a rape with someone staying out of a shouting match over a pizza?

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Response to Piazza Riforma (Reply #56)

Tue Dec 18, 2012, 03:52 PM

58. Nope, You didn't caveat it

 

"Mind your own business" is "mind your own business". Either it is a good policy or it isn't.

Obviously the guy handled it poorly and overreacted but I think it was right for someone to stand up to the bully since the employees were not able/allowed to.

One of the problems in our society is people minding their own business when someone else is being picked on.

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Response to AlexSatan (Reply #58)

Tue Dec 18, 2012, 05:11 PM

62. The employees should have called the cops. It becomes the cops' business, the jerk gets a nice

ride edowntown should it escalate, nobody gets to use his precious gun. Get it? We're trying to have a civalization here, not Tombstone circa 1850.

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Response to BayouBengal07 (Original post)

Tue Dec 18, 2012, 11:56 AM

14. Guy gets angry his pizza order is taking too long. Other guy opens yap to 'admonish' first guy.

The second guy shouldn't have said a damn thing, the first customer's complaint was with the restaurant, not with him.

But he felt emboldened to say something, instead of minding his own damn business.

I wonder why that was....


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Response to Ikonoklast (Reply #14)

Tue Dec 18, 2012, 12:52 PM

25. I was gonna say. Shooter thought he'd get involved, shoot the guy if he had a problem with that.

I'd wager you're spot on, Ikonoklast.

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Response to callous taoboy (Reply #25)

Tue Dec 18, 2012, 01:51 PM

38. There are people who fantasize about just such a scenario.

They hope that someday, they'll get a chance to legally shoot someone.

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Response to BayouBengal07 (Original post)

Tue Dec 18, 2012, 12:13 PM

17. Another chicken shit using NRA viagra to develop a spine

He turned what would have been a simple fistfight into a deadly weapon assault for no reason other than he is a coward and needa a firearm for bravery.

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Response to rustydog (Reply #17)

Tue Dec 18, 2012, 01:37 PM

34. Remember

 

Remember that to Delicate Flowers, their Precious is the difference between cowering under the bed all day long, and going out in public.

If he didn't have his Precious, he wouldn't have been in the restaurant. He would've had to order delivery, and in that case, the delivery person would have been in grave danger.

"Hey, this pizza is cold!" BANG.

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Response to bongbong (Reply #34)

Tue Dec 18, 2012, 01:40 PM

35. A coworker of mine texted me two weeks ago about a local psychotic

who has a history of extreme violent outbursts...the text: With wife and kids in restaurant, **** ***** is 3 tables down!!!! glad I'm packing!

Fucking idiot.

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Response to rustydog (Reply #35)

Tue Dec 18, 2012, 01:46 PM

36. The Rambo fantasies die hard

 

In their fantasies, they stand up, everybody else dives for the floor, the shooter stand there dumbly, and they calmly shoot the miscreant thru the eyes.

In reality, they empty their clip/magazine/whatever in a blind panic, wound or kill innocent bystanders, and have excrement-filled pants.

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Response to rustydog (Reply #17)

Tue Dec 18, 2012, 02:45 PM

53. It wasn't his spine he was trying to develop.

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Response to BayouBengal07 (Original post)

Tue Dec 18, 2012, 12:57 PM

28. Lyndyrd Skynyrd's best song ever

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Response to BayouBengal07 (Original post)

Tue Dec 18, 2012, 12:59 PM

29. If the pizza man had been armed he could have put a stop to the whole thing

 

by shooting BOTH of the customers right between the eyes.

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Response to BayouBengal07 (Original post)

Tue Dec 18, 2012, 01:33 PM

31. I think having a gun emboldens some like this guy and the

guy with the loud music. Without the gun I think neither guy would have instigated the incident. SYG should not apply if you start the hassle.

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Response to BayouBengal07 (Original post)

Tue Dec 18, 2012, 01:36 PM

33. It's the wild West all over again.

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Response to GreenPartyVoter (Reply #33)

Tue Dec 18, 2012, 01:54 PM

40. Many towns in the old "Wild West" had some pretty stringent gun control laws.

http://www.ndsu.edu/pubweb/~rcollins/scholarship/guns.html

Most of what is allowed nowadays would make them shake their heads in wonder at just how stupid we are.

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Response to Ikonoklast (Reply #40)

Tue Dec 18, 2012, 02:07 PM

45. That's good to know. Wonder if we can get those applied now. It's not the Foundin Fathers, but we do

seem to revere our history. Maybe it would work?

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Response to GreenPartyVoter (Reply #33)

Tue Dec 18, 2012, 02:48 PM

54. Really...

"Shootout at the O.K. Pizzeria."

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Response to BayouBengal07 (Original post)

Tue Dec 18, 2012, 01:56 PM

41. Little Caesars?

Shoot me now!

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Response to BayouBengal07 (Original post)

Tue Dec 18, 2012, 02:04 PM

43. Purposefully injected himself into the argument 'cause he had that gun with him.

That, by the way, is the last thing you should ever do if you have a gun on you: Pick more fights because you have a gun to "back you up".

Doesn't have to be a gun, either. I knew a guy many, many years ago who used to regularly pull the same thing because he was a skilled practitioner of Brazilian jiu-jitsu. He was almost at the level where he could teach it and he used to brag about how he'd intentionally make himself part of an otherwise unrelated altercation just so he could (potentially) show off his skills. Eventually he did it and found himself staring down the barrel of some guy's pistol.

This nutball in the story "won". He got to play the sheriff in town and shoot the guy- who I'm really glad lived. Now Big Man In The Pizza Bar is not so big.

Frightening.

PB

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Response to BayouBengal07 (Original post)

Tue Dec 18, 2012, 02:08 PM

46. Now I can't go out and pick up pizza!

It's crazy down here...

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Response to BayouBengal07 (Original post)

Tue Dec 18, 2012, 02:17 PM

49. What in the world is going on in Forida?

...oops...I mean what is the world is going on in America?

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Response to BayouBengal07 (Original post)

Tue Dec 18, 2012, 02:41 PM

51. This is exactly why we need to feel fear every single time we go out of our homes

There is no place that is safe with Concealed Carry!

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Response to BayouBengal07 (Original post)

Tue Dec 18, 2012, 02:43 PM

52. Our nation is out of control

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Response to BayouBengal07 (Original post)

Tue Dec 18, 2012, 03:09 PM

55. "$20,000 bail. "

That's an expensive 5 dollar pizza

Agitated morons running around with loaded weapons. What could go wrong?

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Response to BayouBengal07 (Original post)

Tue Dec 18, 2012, 03:56 PM

59. Stupid people with guns.

Shot over a pizza...how fucking pathetic.

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Response to BayouBengal07 (Original post)

Tue Dec 18, 2012, 04:03 PM

60. Some people should just come with a Looney Tunes soundtrack.

What can you say but "WOW" to this attempt at herd-thinning?

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Response to BayouBengal07 (Original post)

Tue Dec 18, 2012, 04:07 PM

61. The real question is why either of them went to Little Caesars of all places to get a pizza.

That stuff is pure crappy junk.

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