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Tue Dec 18, 2012, 06:46 AM

Nobody took God out of the schools, he was never there to begin with

Whenever we experience another of our now weekly mass shootings, some dickwad always chimes in about how this is because we've removed God from our schools.

When did we do that?

James Dickwad Dobson of course says that God actually 'allowed' this to happen.

What the fuck kind of a sick God actually 'ALLOWS' children to be slaughtered with a machine gun? And why the fuck didn't this all powerful God actually STOP the killer? Oh yeah, because he wasn't there that day, cause we'd removed him.

Every time there is a tornado, the survivors all say that a guardian angel must have been looking out for them, while the casualties apparently weren't godly enough to save I guess.

So this angry invisible God who has no name picks out 20 babies to have murdered because we dare to ignore him and because we aren't praying loud or fast enough.

What the fuck.

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Reply Nobody took God out of the schools, he was never there to begin with (Original post)
Philosoraptor Dec 2012 OP
JHB Dec 2012 #1
Shadowflash Dec 2012 #2
flakey_foont Dec 2012 #3
Philosoraptor Dec 2012 #4
ck4829 Dec 2012 #5
Ineeda Dec 2012 #22
madrchsod Dec 2012 #6
bluemarkers Dec 2012 #10
Philosoraptor Dec 2012 #12
rso Dec 2012 #24
rainlillie Dec 2012 #32
OnionPatch Dec 2012 #28
Hydra Dec 2012 #36
Ineeda Dec 2012 #7
coldbeer Dec 2012 #11
bluemarkers Dec 2012 #17
coldbeer Dec 2012 #25
Stuckinthebush Dec 2012 #8
snooper2 Dec 2012 #31
lunatica Dec 2012 #9
bluemarkers Dec 2012 #14
lunatica Dec 2012 #18
bluemarkers Dec 2012 #23
sufrommich Dec 2012 #13
Mariana Dec 2012 #15
sufrommich Dec 2012 #16
Mariana Dec 2012 #26
Myrina Dec 2012 #19
ieoeja Dec 2012 #34
Myrina Dec 2012 #35
lunatica Dec 2012 #21
sarge43 Dec 2012 #27
Zoeisright Dec 2012 #20
earthside Dec 2012 #29
rainlillie Dec 2012 #30
Major Nikon Dec 2012 #33
lindysalsagal Dec 2012 #37

Response to Philosoraptor (Original post)

Tue Dec 18, 2012, 06:52 AM

1. Wrong preposition

It's "What a fuck(head)"

Compliments of your friendly neighborhood grammar-nazi.

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Response to Philosoraptor (Original post)

Tue Dec 18, 2012, 07:18 AM

2. You are correct.

Even IF a god exists, that 'god' either actively causes, refuses to stop or is powerless to stop these kind of tragedies.

In any of those cases, this certainly isn't a god worthy of worship and is a cruel sadistic monster.

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Response to Philosoraptor (Original post)

Tue Dec 18, 2012, 07:33 AM

3. I could not agree with you more..

These preachers are trying to scare the masses into giving them more power...letting them make the rules; same old con that
the clergy has been running since ancient times. And their extremely thin-skinned and sensitive God is so upset because little
kids aren't praying all day to Him, and not being taught that the earth is 6000 years old. How many of those 20 children were gay or had had abortions??? It is sickening. I went full atheist after 9/11, because any God with any compassion would never have allowed that to happen, nor this latest incident in Newtown. Theirs' is the same God, that, according to their scriptures, destroyed the world by flood when He got pissed off, and killed millions of innocent babies, kittens, puppies,...and bunnies!! And sends His son to earth to get the ever-loving shit beat out of him for some vague reason about salvation. Sorry..... getting carried away here.

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Response to flakey_foont (Reply #3)

Tue Dec 18, 2012, 07:36 AM

4. Mr. Natural agrees

You see? YOU SEE?1?!? You've made god angry again! You foolish humans, when will you ever learn to worship me correctly? How many kindergartners do I have to kill to make you understand?

Yeah,....don't get me started.

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Response to Philosoraptor (Original post)

Tue Dec 18, 2012, 07:44 AM

5. We still had prayer in schools when the Bath School Disaster happened, they never answer that one

Was God distracted with something else because that was a pretty big ball that he dropped.

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Response to ck4829 (Reply #5)

Tue Dec 18, 2012, 09:28 AM

22. Holy cow. I never heard of this before.

Googled it and read the Wikipedia page. A single nut in 1927 did so much damage. And there were 'signs' but nothing really definitive, as is true for most of these walking murder machines. Maybe God missed the clues, too.

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Response to Philosoraptor (Original post)

Tue Dec 18, 2012, 08:26 AM

6. for those who believe in god ,he never left the schools

i still have a hard time with these grifters who on one hand believe god is all powerful yet he can not stop cannot stop the killing of his innocents.

yup...what the fuck.

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Response to madrchsod (Reply #6)

Tue Dec 18, 2012, 09:06 AM

10. Dobson must believe in a weak god - he has little faith

No man can limit God. As a Christian I absolutely reject the idea that in respecting other beliefs, we keep God or Jesus from stepping over any thresh hold.

These types of statements are an embarrassment to Christians and to God. I have faith, but also know that humans makes many decisions, some good, some bad, some horrible. Mother Nature takes out entire swaths of the living - it's not God's revenge or lack of power. It's life.

If I die and find out it was all a sham, no harm, no foul. If otoh, there is a God and life everlasting, then we all have a chance at redemption. It works out well for every body.






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Response to bluemarkers (Reply #10)

Tue Dec 18, 2012, 09:08 AM

12. I believe in freedom of religion, it's the American way

As long as we all keep things in check.

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Response to bluemarkers (Reply #10)

Tue Dec 18, 2012, 09:34 AM

24. God

Good points. I see God as a type of divine intelligence which creates but does not interfere either way.
This creator is not angry, jealous or vengeful, and those "religionists" that attribute these traits to it have created a God in their image, not the other way around.

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Response to rso (Reply #24)

Tue Dec 18, 2012, 10:26 AM

32. That's a very wise, profound response. Well said.

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Response to bluemarkers (Reply #10)

Tue Dec 18, 2012, 09:47 AM

28. Thanks

I feel the same and am glad to hear I'm not alone. If you believe in God, you know he is everywhere. The Huckabees of this world have a pretty wimpy God or else he's very spiteful. (Neither are very godlike qualities.) On the other hand, God does not micro-manage a magical world where sweet children are never harmed, the sun always shines and wishes are granted upon asking nicely. We live in a world of nature and we have free will. Sometimes people make wrong choices (sometimes horrible choices) and others suffer for them. That's part of living on planet Earth.

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Response to bluemarkers (Reply #10)

Tue Dec 18, 2012, 11:42 AM

36. Dobson's god is Mammon

And wealth can indeed be destroyed or taken away, so as gods go, it's a pretty fickle one.

It just amazes me how many people fall under his sway...speaks ill of our culture.

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Response to Philosoraptor (Original post)

Tue Dec 18, 2012, 08:57 AM

7. Perfectly said.

Re: prayer -- when folks said they would pray for them when my husband, and later my sister, were diagnosed with a non-treatable, terminal diseases, it infuriated me. Of course I never said anything because I knew those specific individuals meant well. But I thought that unless they were praying for a quick, merciful, painless end for the people I loved, they should go pray on behalf of someone else. Otherwise it implied that when they inevitably died they didn't deserve to be 'saved' or that the prayer-giver wasn't praying hard enough. Both B.S.
Now, as long as they don't impose it on me or in inappropriate places like schools, I can understand an individual's comfort in believing. It also takes away some responsibilities by 'putting it in God's hands.'

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Response to Ineeda (Reply #7)

Tue Dec 18, 2012, 09:08 AM

11. God Bless You!

Oh, I cringe when somebody tells me that! I think,
may he shit on you too. But we are "One nation
under god". We are below and there is this
thing called gravity. Go figure!

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Response to coldbeer (Reply #11)

Tue Dec 18, 2012, 09:22 AM

17. I'm a Christian and it gives me the creeps too

I hate it when someone wishes me a "blessed" day. bah humbug what you so special to wish me that?

Sometimes we walk through the garden, sometimes we are stuck spreading the manure. Seems like most of the times, my hands are calloused from the shovel, but then there are times when the blooms are fragrant and beautiful.

(right now, I'm shoveling, hoping to see results soon)

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Response to bluemarkers (Reply #17)

Tue Dec 18, 2012, 09:35 AM

25. we feel it

I'm a Christian. I liked your post bluemarkers.

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Response to Philosoraptor (Original post)

Tue Dec 18, 2012, 09:02 AM

8. That whole "god" concept is old

It is tiresome. There is always someone who says, "This was because we abandoned god." or "God was there protecting me."

Once you start deconstructing the entire concept, it breaks down.

God is what you want it to be. Huckabee's god is a pissed off god. My father's god is a benevolent, peaceful god.

They are both right because their gods are in their heads.

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Response to Stuckinthebush (Reply #8)

Tue Dec 18, 2012, 10:22 AM

31. My god takes a shit in the garden

and sleeps on the roof of my truck but I'm sure he is still more productive than anyone else's

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Response to Philosoraptor (Original post)

Tue Dec 18, 2012, 09:03 AM

9. You described their God to a 'T'

Because that's exactly how they think of God. My Born Again sister told me in a letter that God is Jealous and Wrathful and that He was sending me to Everlasting Hell Forever. She told me in great detail just how much I would suffer. Two pages worth.

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Response to lunatica (Reply #9)

Tue Dec 18, 2012, 09:15 AM

14. that's terrible

otoh, you will be in great company!

just so you know, I and most of my friends, reject that type of belief.

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Response to bluemarkers (Reply #14)

Tue Dec 18, 2012, 09:23 AM

18. I know. We finally stopped talking altogether when she said she had to hate gays because

God hates them.

I asked her how he could hate his own creations since he created everything. She accused me of trying to tell her what to believe and hung up on me. We didn't have a great relationship before that, so it was the blessed last straw.

I don't believe God hates at all.

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Response to lunatica (Reply #18)

Tue Dec 18, 2012, 09:30 AM

23. hates hate?

Does God hate hate? It was a teen discussion group many years ago.

I don't think God can, because if we believe God is Love, there is no room for anything else.

I'm in the south (My 19 year old son keeps saying when he graduates, he's moving and taking me with him!) and I know far too many born agains... I try to use logic and the new testament on them, but they are so afraid to open their hearts, it is scary. I'll never understand how acceptance and tolerance lessen me or my faith... I think it makes me better.

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Response to Philosoraptor (Original post)

Tue Dec 18, 2012, 09:10 AM

13. Just once I'd like to see someone,anyone, point out

to these assholes that prayer in public schools isn't allowed in other western democracies either. So unless you're arguing that God is giving these other countries a pass but killing americans for it,your argument is bullshit. Americans are getting killed because of our gun laws,period.

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Response to sufrommich (Reply #13)

Tue Dec 18, 2012, 09:18 AM

15. I'd like to see someone, anyone, point out

that prayer IS allowed in public schools in the US. Students may pray in school. Dobson, Huckabee, Fischer et al. are lying. We shouldn't be propagating their lies.

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Response to Mariana (Reply #15)

Tue Dec 18, 2012, 09:20 AM

16. I agree. I'm talking about the

religious right's argument for forced public prayer.

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Response to sufrommich (Reply #16)

Tue Dec 18, 2012, 09:39 AM

26. They are pretending that prayer isn't allowed at all.

And I think the overwhelming majority of Christians believe that lie. Look at this thread. I see all these responses talking about how Dobson is mischaracterizing God. Very few are addressing the fact that he's lying about prayer being banned in school in the first place. It's the same on the threads about the other religious leaders who are saying this kind of thing.

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Response to sufrommich (Reply #13)

Tue Dec 18, 2012, 09:23 AM

19. You can pray in school all you want ...

... in study hall, on lunch break, in the bathroom ... its just not 'officially sanctioned' in public schools. Nor should it be. There are private schools for those who want 'official prayer' as part of the curriculum.

I lost a couple FB friends over the weekend by pointing that out, along with asking them, "if G'd was allowed in schools, specifically WHICH G'd should it be? What about kids whose families don't follow THAT G'd? Do we then have to spend all day offering prayers to the various G'ds to make everyone happy?" They said I was hateful and mean. WTF?

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Response to Myrina (Reply #19)

Tue Dec 18, 2012, 10:51 AM

34. Small child hugging a Teddy Bear. Take it away. Are you hateful and mean?


Yaweh is your FB friends' Teddy Bear. It gives them comfort, makes them feel less alone and part of something bigger.

If those same friends have children who hang onto their Teddy Bear too seriously as they grow older, they would consider that unhealthy. They would view their child as not adapting to the real world.

What makes Yaweh the Teddy Bear okay to them is that a majority of people have the same or similar Teddy Bear. So they are perfectly well adapted to society. Not that well adapted to reality, but just fine to society. We Atheists are actually less adapted to this society.


Now, some Christian reading this would be insulted. Yet, Christians all the time point out that we should accept God into our lives, or at least not belittle them for having God in theirs, because he "gives them comfort, makes them fell less alone and part of something bigger." Take "Teddy Bear" out of this, and I have essentially described their religion they way they describe it. The analogy part they will undoubtedly find insulting. But it is a valid and accurate comparison.


Confession: I took Wally Gator to college with me! Couldn't hold his liquor worth a damn though. Everytime someone tried pouring a drink in his mouth, it just spilled down his front. Probably because he did not have a throat. But a lot of people enjoyed it anway. That was one beatup stuffed toy by the time I graduated.

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Response to ieoeja (Reply #34)

Tue Dec 18, 2012, 11:28 AM

35. :-)

Thank you for explaining it this way. Makes perfect sense.

Sorry to hear about Wally Gator's tough college years, though.


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Response to sufrommich (Reply #13)

Tue Dec 18, 2012, 09:24 AM

21. I'm sure plenty of people have pointed these and many other things out

But they just choose not to listen.

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Response to sufrommich (Reply #13)

Tue Dec 18, 2012, 09:40 AM

27. The Supremes never said an individual cannot prey anywhere s/he wants to, including schools.

What they did ruled is the government, in the form of public tax supported schools, cannot force participation in public prayer. Exactly what the Founders had in mind.

Seems to this agnostic that an omniscient, omnipresent, omnipotent god will be anywhere s/he/it chooses to be. If s/he/it directed the massacre of 20 children because they didn't mouthed the Lord's Prayer that morning, that's not an entry worthy of respect, let alone worship.

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Response to Philosoraptor (Original post)

Tue Dec 18, 2012, 09:24 AM

20. Nothing makes me angrier than the idiots

who survive a tragedy claiming that god or angels saved them. It's the ultimate in hubris, selfishness, smugness, and stupidity.

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Response to Philosoraptor (Original post)

Tue Dec 18, 2012, 10:19 AM

29. For some reason, this really bugs me this time.

Maybe because this atrocity occurred during the holiday season.

And, of course, because of the small children.

What did those kids know of the 'prayer in the schools' controversy? What did they know about the political charges about the 'secularization' of American society?

Yet, the Jesus of the Facebook images I 'get' to see of him putting his arms around the little children are accompanied by exhortations to pray for these innocent victims.

I just don't know how else to express it: just where was this omnipotent, omniscient, omnipresent Jesus/god when the perpetrator was firing off his Bushmaster with its 90 round magazine?

Where?

For the likes of Dobson or Huckabee to be making judgements about America when they cannot answer this simple question is just plain revolting.

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Response to Philosoraptor (Original post)

Tue Dec 18, 2012, 10:20 AM

30. The whole argument is very old and very tired and very lame

I went to both public and catholic schools. If I wanted to say a prayer before lunch in public school no problem. There are kids of many faiths in our local school and and everyone is respected. My best friend in high school was Muslim, she said her prayers whenever she needed to and no one cared. Maybe it's New York, but folks here don't give a darn as long as those beliefs are not forced on others. I believe that my God is with me all the time.

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Response to Philosoraptor (Original post)

Tue Dec 18, 2012, 10:30 AM

33. Much of organized religion revolves around demagoguery

Do what we say, you get to go to paradise (which conveniently can't be verified). Don't do what we say and you go to the other place where you will roast in eternal extreme pain (also unverifiable).

If you fail to do what we say, just look what happens.

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Response to Philosoraptor (Original post)

Tue Dec 18, 2012, 06:33 PM

37. Hucklebee just used the "remove god from schools" meme.

My question is this: If "god" wants to be at school, what the hell could the rest of us do to stop him (her/it/whatever)?

How is it that an atheist, unionized teacher like me is so much more powerful than "god?"

And if I am, why don't I ever win the lottery?

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