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Tue Dec 18, 2012, 12:48 AM

Face it, folks.

You'll vote for Democrats again if they cut Social Security and Medicare, and you'll do it with great passion.

Because they'll be running against a Republican who's even worse.

We are chumps!

32 replies, 2434 views

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Arrow 32 replies Author Time Post
Reply Face it, folks. (Original post)
MannyGoldstein Dec 2012 OP
BeyondGeography Dec 2012 #1
MjolnirTime Dec 2012 #2
Bonobo Dec 2012 #3
plethoro Dec 2012 #4
TDale313 Dec 2012 #5
forestpath Dec 2012 #6
SammyWinstonJack Dec 2012 #15
Samantha Dec 2012 #7
TDale313 Dec 2012 #8
In Truth We Trust Dec 2012 #9
Egalitarian Thug Dec 2012 #10
TheKentuckian Dec 2012 #11
DemocratsForProgress Dec 2012 #12
Summer Hathaway Dec 2012 #13
Kablooie Dec 2012 #14
LWolf Dec 2012 #20
HiPointDem Dec 2012 #16
RomneyLies Dec 2012 #17
Doctor_J Dec 2012 #18
WilliamPitt Dec 2012 #19
LWolf Dec 2012 #21
madokie Dec 2012 #22
MannyGoldstein Dec 2012 #24
sabrina 1 Dec 2012 #25
madokie Dec 2012 #30
Pisces Dec 2012 #23
Jim Lane Dec 2012 #26
G_j Dec 2012 #27
Oilwellian Dec 2012 #28
spanone Dec 2012 #29
sabrina 1 Dec 2012 #31
Poll_Blind Dec 2012 #32

Response to MannyGoldstein (Original post)

Tue Dec 18, 2012, 12:49 AM

1. That's it for me

I'm moving to Nirvana.

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Response to MannyGoldstein (Original post)

Tue Dec 18, 2012, 12:50 AM

2. I agree, you are a chump.

 

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Response to MannyGoldstein (Original post)

Tue Dec 18, 2012, 12:52 AM

3. I would like to see everyone stop for a minute and be honest.

And admit that yes, they would. And that they WILL as long as the Republicans are worse.

Starting with that admission would be a first step to reclaiming your power.

Just a few short seconds of painful honesty with yourself...just try everyone.

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Response to MannyGoldstein (Original post)

Tue Dec 18, 2012, 12:54 AM

4. I'm not so sure, Manny. People I have talked to

 

say they won't vote at all if Social Security or Medicare is cut. You've been right about almost everything with regards to Obama, but I'm not so sure about this call.

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Response to MannyGoldstein (Original post)

Tue Dec 18, 2012, 12:57 AM

5. Could someone be a dear...

And PM me during the 5 minutes between "hey, don't freak, it's just a rumor" and "it's a done deal, it's the best they could do, get over it!" when it's ok to say Dems caving on SS and Medicare cuts sucks? Cause, umm, it would/does.

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Response to MannyGoldstein (Original post)

Tue Dec 18, 2012, 01:00 AM

6. That would be it for me. I don't vote for Republicans...no matter what they call themselves.

 

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Response to forestpath (Reply #6)

Tue Dec 18, 2012, 04:23 AM

15. Same here. Done with it all!

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Response to MannyGoldstein (Original post)

Tue Dec 18, 2012, 01:04 AM

7. I am not so sure

I have been considering becoming an Independent and labeling myself a Democratic Socialist like Bernie Sanders. I just am so in natural lock-step with everything he does and says. Not so much true any more with the Democratic party and its Blue Dogs.

I consider this chained COLA to be a betrayal to seniors. It doesn't have to happen, nor should it. It's a betrayal to core Democratic principles, and I cannot help but wonder which Dems will fall in line and how many will not. I believe the majority will. I hope I am wrong.

Sam

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Response to Samantha (Reply #7)

Tue Dec 18, 2012, 01:07 AM

8. Agree with everything you said here.

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Response to MannyGoldstein (Original post)

Tue Dec 18, 2012, 02:10 AM

9. No. Not true. Many will certainly due the old tried and true "lesser of two eveils" conundrum

but I won't and many others will not. There will be hell to pay eventually regardless of which parties collude to screw the poor and middle class

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Response to MannyGoldstein (Original post)

Tue Dec 18, 2012, 02:22 AM

10. We, as in Americans, certainly are chumps, suckers, rubes, marks. And we, as in DUers, will in all

 

likelihood vote for them. But if they do this I predict that 2014 will turn out worse than 2010. And I called 2012 exactly back in March here (when I came over, January over at Kos).

So to be clear, if the Democrats cut Social Security and Medicare, the republicans will gain a veto-proof majority (+48 seats) in the House and will gain a majority in the Senate. If the Democrats push some gun ban through this year, it might be even worse.
& R

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Response to MannyGoldstein (Original post)

Tue Dec 18, 2012, 03:56 AM

11. Just an appetizer

The austerity parade drip...drip gets a little easier every time with the captive audience.

I tend to think we are in a tailspin already, the deal leading to this one was a bridge too far. We have probably already entered the singularity just as folks were talking about milkshakes being drank and extolling on the victory.

It just put into concrete terms that all options available are functionally insane. Who does shit like this? Who thinks savaging demand when there far too little is rational and who is seeking middle ground with delusion? Particularly when the "middle ground" starts deep in their territory and out of step with like two thirds or more or the people as well?

I don't get how the same exact person can be calling something a win and turn around shrieking about the same deal being some fiscal cliff that must be avoided at all costs? What????

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Response to MannyGoldstein (Original post)

Tue Dec 18, 2012, 03:59 AM

12. and what will you do?

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Response to DemocratsForProgress (Reply #12)

Tue Dec 18, 2012, 04:09 AM

13. He'll continue to vote for the party he's always voted for.

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Response to MannyGoldstein (Original post)

Tue Dec 18, 2012, 04:16 AM

14. You gotcher two choices. Be a chump or be an idiot. Yer choice.

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Response to Kablooie (Reply #14)

Tue Dec 18, 2012, 09:34 AM

20. I don't see a lot of difference between the two. nt

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Response to MannyGoldstein (Original post)

Tue Dec 18, 2012, 06:08 AM

16. i'm going to vote for the Work Less Party.

 

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Response to MannyGoldstein (Original post)

Tue Dec 18, 2012, 06:32 AM

17. I was okay with gun rights until the 14th

 

A line was crossed and that changed.

I'm okay with Democrats so long as they don't cut the only two programs that will allow me to live into old age.

They probably shouldn't cross that line.

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Response to MannyGoldstein (Original post)

Tue Dec 18, 2012, 09:15 AM

18. I think this will be the last stand for the party

When Obama caves on SS, taxes, and gun control, it will kill the turnout in 2014 and we'll be living in fascist hell until we finally abandon the traditional useless pushback and go with a more confrontational set of tactics. The upside I see to this is that by completely caving in, we probably won't turn into Rwanda, where the right wingers slaughter the sane citizens by the thousands. they don't really need to kill people who are giving them everything voluntarily.

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Response to MannyGoldstein (Original post)

Tue Dec 18, 2012, 09:18 AM

19. Prepared to make dinner plans here.

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Response to MannyGoldstein (Original post)

Tue Dec 18, 2012, 09:35 AM

21. Or, at least

people will say so while posting on DU.

In the real world, though?

I have my doubts.

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Response to MannyGoldstein (Original post)

Tue Dec 18, 2012, 09:43 AM

22. I heard Jay Carney say that there would be NO cuts to either SS or Medicare

not more than two maybe three days ago. I don't buy what you're selling, sorry
I trust the President and his spokesman as so far they've been batting 100% where as the pundits are at a big fat 0

At every turn all, well not all, of what you read here is how O is going to cave on this or that and just like with healthcare you would have thought they'd have closed the doors on healthcare for the masses by now from what you read here and else where when the fact of the matter it is a big asss step in the right fucking direction.

Bullshit I say BULLSHIT

How do you have a discussion on anything when the other person is working off of lies, innuendo and or Bullfuckingshit?

You fucking can't is how

Some of you people are nutts. At least I have gainful projects that will do someone if not me some good to do with most of my time. :grrrrr:

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Response to madokie (Reply #22)

Tue Dec 18, 2012, 10:08 AM

24. I hope that you're right. nt

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Response to madokie (Reply #22)

Tue Dec 18, 2012, 10:12 AM

25. Can you explain why SS is even included in these negotiations and why would any

Democrat risk Republicans accepting an offer that includes cutting SS? Iow, why was the Chained CPI still in the offer made to Boehner since SS had nothing to do with the deficit?

Why is SS still part of these discussions? Can you explain that?

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Response to sabrina 1 (Reply #25)

Tue Dec 18, 2012, 04:19 PM

30. From what I'm seeing or hearing it isn't

the pukie are wanting it to be but the President has said on many occasions that there will be no cuts to SS or medicare.

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Response to MannyGoldstein (Original post)


Response to MannyGoldstein (Original post)

Tue Dec 18, 2012, 11:35 AM

26. Vote, yes. Passion, no.

You write, "You'll vote for Democrats again if they cut Social Security and Medicare, and you'll do it with great passion."

In 2004 and 2008 I was passionate. I went to Pennsylvania to volunteer for the Democratic candidate for President.

In 2012 I got an absentee ballot and voted a straight Democratic ticket -- with firm conviction but with no great motivating passion. Then I went to Massachusetts to volunteer for Elizabeth Warren.

In 2016 I'll have no hesitation in voting for a right-winger like Andrew Cuomo in preference to an extreme right-winger like Marco Rubio, if that's my choice, but no right-winger will get my time or money. The handling of Social Security and Medicare will be high on the list of issues I consider.

Also, your statement skips over the primaries. In 2016 there'll be an open competition for the Democratic nomination, and we'll have the opportunity to show our passion for the more progressive candidate(s).

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Response to MannyGoldstein (Original post)

Tue Dec 18, 2012, 11:36 AM

27. +1000

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Response to MannyGoldstein (Original post)

Tue Dec 18, 2012, 12:32 PM

28. I won't vote for another Third Wayer

No more neo liberal globalists and that includes Hillary. The Democratic Party will be in great disarray if they make this move during a lame duck session.

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Response to MannyGoldstein (Original post)

Tue Dec 18, 2012, 12:33 PM

29. who cut social security? who cut medicare? that's right, no one.

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Response to spanone (Reply #29)

Tue Dec 18, 2012, 06:02 PM

31. Who did not take SS off the Deficit Discussion table when everyone knows

it had zero to do with the Deficit??

That's right, no one, no Democrat, and we sure didn't expect a Republican to do so.

I keep asking but get no answer. 'Why is SS on a table where it does not belong'?

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Response to MannyGoldstein (Original post)

Tue Dec 18, 2012, 06:15 PM

32. But I think a lot of less passionate people are more likely to just give up, drop out.

There used to be a saying that went something like "You get the representation you vote for."

I don't feel that's true anymore. There's a shitload of disparity between what I'm used to seeing in the party planks and what Obama is actually doing. He's basically doin' his own thing and the rest of the Democratic party is getting dragged along with it. Democratic Leadership is with him most of the time, but lately even they have been having to make indirect public rumbles in hopes of keeping the President on our side of the fence.

It's beyond chimerical.

PB

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