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Mon Dec 17, 2012, 11:52 PM

Hi... I'm Ohio Joe, a Host of the Gaming group... I feel I should say something...

So I will...

Fucking guns... That is the fucking problem, not games.

I am now going to go smoke a bowl of some very sweet Purple Kush and play some Borderlands 2

144 replies, 10338 views

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Reply Hi... I'm Ohio Joe, a Host of the Gaming group... I feel I should say something... (Original post)
Ohio Joe Dec 2012 OP
Skittles Dec 2012 #1
WillyT Dec 2012 #2
Aristus Dec 2012 #5
Neoma Dec 2012 #12
Aristus Dec 2012 #13
WillyT Dec 2012 #24
Diclotican Dec 2012 #30
kwolf68 Dec 2012 #3
femrap Dec 2012 #73
white_wolf Dec 2012 #80
Puzzledtraveller Dec 2012 #87
white_wolf Dec 2012 #93
leftlibdem420 Dec 2012 #119
11 Bravo Dec 2012 #117
2ndAmForComputers Dec 2012 #142
Tutonic Dec 2012 #4
jeff47 Dec 2012 #129
Llewlladdwr Dec 2012 #6
XemaSab Dec 2012 #7
SidDithers Dec 2012 #8
white_wolf Dec 2012 #9
Ohio Joe Dec 2012 #36
backscatter712 Dec 2012 #10
femrap Dec 2012 #11
theKed Dec 2012 #14
white_wolf Dec 2012 #15
ProudToBeBlueInRhody Dec 2012 #65
femrap Dec 2012 #72
ProudToBeBlueInRhody Dec 2012 #78
Jeff In Milwaukee Dec 2012 #69
2ndAmForComputers Dec 2012 #16
white_wolf Dec 2012 #19
femrap Dec 2012 #79
white_wolf Dec 2012 #82
femrap Dec 2012 #85
white_wolf Dec 2012 #88
femrap Dec 2012 #76
RetroLounge Dec 2012 #20
Warren DeMontague Dec 2012 #22
Bjorn Against Dec 2012 #27
white_wolf Dec 2012 #29
femrap Dec 2012 #83
awoke_in_2003 Dec 2012 #33
snooper2 Dec 2012 #38
ms liberty Dec 2012 #127
justiceischeap Dec 2012 #39
EastTennesseeDem Dec 2012 #43
Javaman Dec 2012 #49
RomneyLies Dec 2012 #50
Hassin Bin Sober Dec 2012 #56
femrap Dec 2012 #89
DonCoquixote Dec 2012 #135
WilliamPitt Dec 2012 #45
Panasonic Dec 2012 #51
femrap Dec 2012 #94
WilliamPitt Dec 2012 #101
JesterCS Dec 2012 #53
Occulus Dec 2012 #54
ProudToBeBlueInRhody Dec 2012 #64
Aerows Dec 2012 #77
kaiden Dec 2012 #107
Aerows Dec 2012 #75
Capt. Obvious Dec 2012 #106
Nevernose Dec 2012 #131
rhett o rick Dec 2012 #17
Lordquinton Dec 2012 #34
white_wolf Dec 2012 #35
keroro gunsou Dec 2012 #133
rhett o rick Dec 2012 #44
Lordquinton Dec 2012 #137
rhett o rick Dec 2012 #139
Cleita Dec 2012 #18
0rganism Dec 2012 #66
Cleita Dec 2012 #67
0rganism Dec 2012 #70
wildbilln864 Dec 2012 #21
Warren DeMontague Dec 2012 #23
WheelWalker Dec 2012 #26
Warren DeMontague Dec 2012 #28
Little Star Dec 2012 #118
WheelWalker Dec 2012 #123
Warren DeMontague Dec 2012 #124
WheelWalker Dec 2012 #128
Herlong Dec 2012 #25
abelenkpe Dec 2012 #31
Dash87 Dec 2012 #57
ErikJ Dec 2012 #32
randome Dec 2012 #37
ancianita Dec 2012 #112
randome Dec 2012 #120
ancianita Dec 2012 #132
jeff47 Dec 2012 #130
KharmaTrain Dec 2012 #40
RomneyLies Dec 2012 #42
KharmaTrain Dec 2012 #47
RomneyLies Dec 2012 #41
OldDem2012 Dec 2012 #46
dkf Dec 2012 #55
OldDem2012 Dec 2012 #59
Rex Dec 2012 #141
Tommy_Carcetti Dec 2012 #48
JesterCS Dec 2012 #52
BigDemVoter Dec 2012 #58
Ohio Joe Dec 2012 #61
SomethingFishy Dec 2012 #71
Ohio Joe Dec 2012 #74
white_wolf Dec 2012 #81
SomethingFishy Dec 2012 #86
white_wolf Dec 2012 #90
Aerows Dec 2012 #60
DefenseLawyer Dec 2012 #62
Patiod Dec 2012 #63
Jeff In Milwaukee Dec 2012 #68
Puzzledtraveller Dec 2012 #84
Ohio Joe Dec 2012 #92
Confusious Dec 2012 #97
OriginalGeek Dec 2012 #121
sdfernando Dec 2012 #91
randome Dec 2012 #95
sdfernando Dec 2012 #110
randome Dec 2012 #116
Ohio Joe Dec 2012 #98
sdfernando Dec 2012 #109
white_wolf Dec 2012 #111
sdfernando Dec 2012 #114
silentwarrior Dec 2012 #140
ErikJ Dec 2012 #96
FloridaJudy Dec 2012 #99
white_wolf Dec 2012 #103
Odin2005 Dec 2012 #125
FloridaJudy Dec 2012 #144
femrap Dec 2012 #100
Warren DeMontague Dec 2012 #104
Warren Stupidity Dec 2012 #102
kaiden Dec 2012 #105
Ohio Joe Dec 2012 #122
kaiden Dec 2012 #143
zappaman Dec 2012 #108
Rex Dec 2012 #113
cecilfirefox Dec 2012 #115
madinmaryland Dec 2012 #126
Ohio Joe Dec 2012 #134
madinmaryland Dec 2012 #136
HipChick Dec 2012 #138

Response to Ohio Joe (Original post)

Mon Dec 17, 2012, 11:57 PM

1. HOWDY OHIO_JOE

YOU ARE CORRECT

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Response to Ohio Joe (Original post)

Mon Dec 17, 2012, 11:57 PM

2. What Was The Name Of The Game That Put You On An Island....

Where it was very quiet. and you had to figure out the way off ?

Spooky music too...

1990's ???

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Response to WillyT (Reply #2)

Tue Dec 18, 2012, 12:03 AM

5. I think that was Myst.

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Response to Aristus (Reply #5)

Tue Dec 18, 2012, 12:21 AM

12. I hated that game!

But if anyone is interested, it's now an iPhone app.

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Response to Neoma (Reply #12)

Tue Dec 18, 2012, 12:22 AM

13. I never played it.

My sister was a fan, though. She tried to explain the scenario to me. It made my head spin...

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Response to Aristus (Reply #5)

Tue Dec 18, 2012, 12:53 AM

24. Thank You... My GF Was All Up Into That...


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Response to Aristus (Reply #5)

Tue Dec 18, 2012, 01:16 AM

30. Aristus

Aristus

I loved the game - great game it was - even though I never got of the iceland for a reason.. i suspect it was my own lack of knowledge about managing it.. But it was a great game - for that time at least..

Diclotican

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Response to Ohio Joe (Original post)

Tue Dec 18, 2012, 12:00 AM

3. The gamers be worried


Some of these games are so realistic it's amazing. Don't think for a moment that it can't desensitize people.

Sure, most people who game are fine...then again most people with guns are fine.

I think it's a combination of many things. Guns ARE absolutely the major reason, this I agree with. Decent access to mental health care is another grave failing of our nation. And then there is the external stimuli...the third rail, things like movies and games, but then again the games reflect our obsession with death, aggression and violence.

Basically, our country is fucked.

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Response to kwolf68 (Reply #3)

Tue Dec 18, 2012, 03:10 PM

73. I agree with you...

 

you're lucky the posse didn't descend on you as it did on me.

WASF: we are so fucked. Damn shame, this country was at one time pretty decent.

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Response to femrap (Reply #73)

Tue Dec 18, 2012, 03:17 PM

80. When back in the days before DND, rock music or comic books?

Seriously your anti-videogame crusade is just as pathetic as all of the moral crusades I mentioned above. Of course, I don't know why I bother talking to you. The general consensus seems to be that you are nothing, but a troll and I'm beginning to agree with that consensus.

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Response to white_wolf (Reply #80)

Tue Dec 18, 2012, 03:26 PM

87. Man I'm serious it is the <I dont play games therefore I dont care if they are banned phenom>

I want to find something these people really enjoy and advocate banning it worldwide, I don't care if it's fucking crocheting.

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Response to Puzzledtraveller (Reply #87)

Tue Dec 18, 2012, 03:30 PM

93. Well in Femrap's case we could advocate for the banning of all trolls from DU.

How this one has managed to stay around so long amazes me.

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Response to Puzzledtraveller (Reply #87)

Tue Dec 18, 2012, 05:51 PM

119. Sounds like how Republicans feel about poker...

 

They get bribed by the reserves and by Vegas to create a moral panic against Internet poker so as to preserve their own gambling interests. That's a shitty way to determine acceptable leisure activities in a democracy.

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Response to femrap (Reply #73)

Tue Dec 18, 2012, 05:31 PM

117. Awwww, a victim. Do you really wish to re-litigate THAT? Because FUCK GUNS is nothing like ...

attacking a long-time and highly respected DUer with snarky bullshit insinuations about a "dude" who was "obsessed" with "cuuuuuute" (your words). So, you poor victim of a "posse", do you really want to fight that battle ... again? If you do, you will lose ... again.
Because the "posse" of which you are so dismissive, turned out to be pretty much every person who read your post.

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Response to femrap (Reply #73)

Wed Dec 19, 2012, 01:21 PM

142. kwolf68 seems to be (even though I disagree with him/her) a mentally balanced person.

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Response to Ohio Joe (Original post)

Tue Dec 18, 2012, 12:01 AM

4. Uh Joe, at the risk of sounding like I am disagreeing, let me say

that the NRA would have me believe that people kill people not the guns. Is it possible that people with guns kill people and that gamers with guns kill people and that the problem is when these things intersect? I am now going to drink a cup of very hot chocolate with marshmallows and play some Stevie Wonder.

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Response to Tutonic (Reply #4)

Tue Dec 18, 2012, 08:56 PM

129. The difference is the games are distributed to other countries

Those other countries don't have mass shootings anywhere as often as we do.

On the other hand, guns are far less available.

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Response to Ohio Joe (Original post)

Tue Dec 18, 2012, 12:09 AM

6. Best of luck Joe.

The formerly avid gamer that I used to be agrees with you 100%.

Unfortunately, the gun hobbyist that I am now no longer gives a shit about whether or not your "murder simulators" get taken away or not. Hold on to 'em if you can, but you'll get no help from me.

Yeah, best of luck....

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Response to Ohio Joe (Original post)

Tue Dec 18, 2012, 12:12 AM

8. DU rec...nt

Sid

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Response to Ohio Joe (Original post)

Tue Dec 18, 2012, 12:14 AM

9. Borderlands was a great game. I haven't played the second yet.

Anyway, good post.

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Response to white_wolf (Reply #9)

Tue Dec 18, 2012, 10:13 AM

36. It's really good

My Review:

http://www.democraticunderground.com/12111536

I have a lot more to add to that as well, two of the four expansions are now out... The game is so freakin huge.

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Response to Ohio Joe (Original post)

Tue Dec 18, 2012, 12:19 AM

10. +1!!!

I can't believe how many idiots are here screeching about video games. No doubt, the same morons who were screaming about rap music (Tipper Gore anyone?), D&D, comic books, Lady Chatterly's Lover...

Every single time, history vindicates the censored. Every. Single. Time.

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Response to Ohio Joe (Original post)

Tue Dec 18, 2012, 12:20 AM

11. You can stay in

 

denial all you want....but violent video games desensitize people to extreme violence. In fact, before military went out on raids, they played violent videos and watched lots of violent pron.

And they they played Metal Rock and went out and killed...some men and some women and some children....no wonder they have PTSD.

So don't stand up for your violent games.

If you are not part of the solution, you are part of the problem.

You have to admit that you are NOT making the world BETTER. Why not go plant some trees? Or just get a job helping those less fortunate....or.....there are lots of things you could do.

Call the posse.

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Response to femrap (Reply #11)

Tue Dec 18, 2012, 12:22 AM

14. This post

makes my head hurt.
No. Just...no.

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Response to femrap (Reply #11)

Tue Dec 18, 2012, 12:22 AM

15. This post can't be serious.

Seriously this is one of the stupidest posts I've seen all day. DU really has gone nuts lately.

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Response to white_wolf (Reply #15)

Tue Dec 18, 2012, 01:40 PM

65. Par for the course with that poster

Why they weren't banned three weeks ago is beyond me.

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Response to ProudToBeBlueInRhody (Reply #65)

Tue Dec 18, 2012, 03:07 PM

72. Must have something to

 

do with The First Amendment and the right to have an opinion. It's not required that we all march lock-step to the posse leader.

I miss Junior High, don't you?

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Response to femrap (Reply #72)

Tue Dec 18, 2012, 03:14 PM

78. The First Amendment has zilch to do with an internet message board

If you were anywhere near as bright as you think you are, you'd know that.

Tell me where posting people's private information on the internet falls into the bill of rights, by the by?

I think you missed junior high, quite frankly.

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Response to white_wolf (Reply #15)

Tue Dec 18, 2012, 01:53 PM

69. I would respond...

but right now I've got to go out and plant some fucking trees.

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Response to femrap (Reply #11)

Tue Dec 18, 2012, 12:25 AM

16. The videogame-less, porn-less, anything-fun-less utopia you want will never happen.

Chew on that.

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Response to 2ndAmForComputers (Reply #16)

Tue Dec 18, 2012, 12:28 AM

19. Actually it does.

The poster just needs to go live with the Amish if they think the modern world is so evil.

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Response to white_wolf (Reply #19)

Tue Dec 18, 2012, 03:16 PM

79. Is that what you'd

 

say to the parents of the dead children at Sandy Hook Elementary? Go join an Amish community?

Did you graduate high school? Just asking.

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Response to femrap (Reply #79)

Tue Dec 18, 2012, 03:21 PM

82. I did. Oh and I took a philosophy class in college where I learned about fallices.

One was called appeal to emotion and another was ad hominem. You just committed both. Seriously, your statement is idiotic. You don't have any evidence at all to show that videogames had a damn thing to do with the Sandy Hook shooting. It was guns that enabled Lanza.

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Response to white_wolf (Reply #82)

Tue Dec 18, 2012, 03:24 PM

85. Then why do

 

warriors play violent video games before their raids? The military encourages this. Go ask a vet.

Did you serve our country in the military?

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Response to femrap (Reply #85)

Tue Dec 18, 2012, 03:28 PM

88. Someone in another thread replied to this argument.

They pointed out that the military does not use videogames in the normal sense of the word. They use simulations to help teach tactics because it's easier and cheaper to do that then training them in the field. Once again show me evidence to support your claim that videogames contributed to the Sandy Hook shooting. Evidence, not speculation.

Oh, and no I've never been in the military. I have no desire to fight wars for the oligarchs which is all the U.S. military does anymore. Not that it has anything to do with this topic.

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Response to 2ndAmForComputers (Reply #16)

Tue Dec 18, 2012, 03:14 PM

76. I lived it.

 

Until you little ones decided killing and raping is fun.

So have at it....but don't come whining when it smacks your family in the face.

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Response to femrap (Reply #11)

Tue Dec 18, 2012, 12:29 AM

20. I was going to respond, but saw it was femrap

Typical clueless post.

RL

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Response to femrap (Reply #11)

Tue Dec 18, 2012, 12:51 AM

22. What sort of message does NASA send when they encourage attacks on our lunar sister?

The brutes.

http://www.cnn.com/2012/12/17/us/nasa-moon-probes/index.html

(ebb and flow.. hmm, think there was a subliminal Illuminati-planted message in there?)

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Response to femrap (Reply #11)

Tue Dec 18, 2012, 01:05 AM

27. They played Metal Rock?

Hi Grandma, I did not know you posted on here.

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Response to Bjorn Against (Reply #27)

Tue Dec 18, 2012, 01:11 AM

29. I didn't even know Metal Rock was a term.

I've heard of Metal and Rock, but never Metal Rock. It must have been before my time.

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Response to Bjorn Against (Reply #27)


Response to femrap (Reply #11)

Tue Dec 18, 2012, 02:36 AM

33. "Or just get a job helping those less fortunate"...

I do a lot of volunteer work in my area, and grew up watching the Three Stooges and Loony Tunes. So far, I have never shot anyone in their face to watch their beak fly around their heads.

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Response to femrap (Reply #11)

Tue Dec 18, 2012, 10:19 AM

38. I think online message boards desensitize people to idiocy..

I mean, a normal person might walk through Krogers and see two people arguing about Olive Garden and be like, holy shit!


But the online message board expert would notice and say, meh, fucking people bitch about anything

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Response to snooper2 (Reply #38)

Tue Dec 18, 2012, 08:53 PM

127. +1...I could so rec this!

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Response to femrap (Reply #11)

Tue Dec 18, 2012, 10:26 AM

39. Watching the evening news, movies, TV cop shows

and surfing the Internet can desensitize people to extreme violence too. I live in the DC area and almost every night there is a news story about someone getting shot. You don't even have to see the images to become desensitized to violence.

I think people prone to violence are going to be violent no matter what they do with their time. Me, I like to go home and shoot lots and lots of animated people. The more carnage the better because it's a helpful way for me to relieve stress. It doesn't mean I don't cry when I hear about 20 kids getting shot, it doesn't mean I don't cry when I hear people talk about hunting but this bullshit that video games desensitize people to extreme violence and not touching on anything else than can do so, is just that, bullshit.

Mass shooters may just happen to play video games but that doesn't mean every gamer has the potential to be a mass shooter. Just like every person suffering from mental illness isn't going to be a mass shooter.

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Response to femrap (Reply #11)

Tue Dec 18, 2012, 10:40 AM

43. ^Take femrap with a grain of salt

She has gone ballistic over a parody of a fucking Superman comic in the middle of a bunch of cat pictures.

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Response to EastTennesseeDem (Reply #43)

Tue Dec 18, 2012, 11:14 AM

49. personally...

I use a full shaker when dealling with that poster.

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Response to EastTennesseeDem (Reply #43)

Tue Dec 18, 2012, 11:41 AM

50. Oh, so SHE was the one

 

wow!

Just,...wow.

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Response to EastTennesseeDem (Reply #43)

Tue Dec 18, 2012, 12:24 PM

56. Yep. Just ignore. It's performance art.

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Response to EastTennesseeDem (Reply #43)

Tue Dec 18, 2012, 03:29 PM

89. So what?

 

So I don't follow the clique's posse? So I don't bow down to the almighty mob?

Ever heard of The First Amendment? Free Speech? I'm entitled to my opinion. If you don't like it...say so and get over it.

Hey make your days at DU more calm...put me on Ignore. Obviously, you like to follow the leader. Ever disagree w/ a 'popular poster' on DU?

I wonder if you have ever posted something that has made people actually THINK?

Maybe I'll just ignore you, too. You're just part of a posse. And I don't feel like being lynched by the posse today.

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Response to femrap (Reply #89)

Tue Dec 18, 2012, 10:52 PM

135. sigh

Here is the point you are missing, and to be fair, it is being missed.

Whether it is rock and roll, video games, energy drinks, or whatever you seem to hate, all of it is used as a SCAPEGOAT. The logic of scapegoating may seem calm at the beginning, but then it takes it's logical course, and goes from reasonable complaints to foolishness. As Michael Moore pointed out in Bowling for Columbine Eric and Dylan were avid bowlers, bowling with the very same people they later killed. By that logic, we need to ban Bowling.

There are plenty of web pages and think tanks ready to feed you all sorts of statistics about how Liberals are destroying the country, but we know that for what it is, BS, well, blaming scapegoats is BS, because if these video games were capable of making killers, every other industrialized country that plays them, some of whom play much more than we do (like Japan or China) would be bloodbaths.. When you buy into scapegoating, you give the badguys something else to blame, other than their own wicked profit driven behavior. Why do you think the GOP is talking so much about "mental illness" and "God in schools", because they know that they win if we stop thinking of GUNS as the PROBLEM.


What is the difference? it was shown when the psycho in China stabbed 20 kids (a bad thing no doubt) but all of those kids LIVED, why, we had a knife. China, you know, that nation that has more internet users than we do, many of whom play video games so much they have actually made a living at it, testing out bugs for game companies.

But of course, soldiers play these games before battle..they also drink Coffee, do we ban that? Should we judge teenagers in high school the same way soldiers in the battlefield are?

Sidebar, we should not, which is why civilians have no business getting their hands on military weaponry.


And lest you think it is this modern era that is soooo bad, I assure you, back in your era, when Jimi and Eric and Dylan and the Beatles were playing, the same people wanted to blame them for destroying Western Civilization. You may say "well, we were not as bad.." at which point the 80-somethings raises their eyebrow considering that rock and roll to them was as evil as video games, as well as all that sex drugs rock that the Boomers enjoyed. Do not fall for the old fallacy of "why can't they be like we were,perfect in every way.."

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Response to femrap (Reply #11)

Tue Dec 18, 2012, 10:41 AM

45. Derp Derp Derp Derp Derp Derp Derp Derp Derp Derp Derp Derp

Derp Derp Derp Derp Derp Derp Derp Derp Derp Derp Derp Derp Derp Derp Derp Derp Derp Derp Derp Derp Derp Derp Derp Derp Derp Derp Derp Derp Derp Derp Derp Derp Derp Derp Derp Derp Derp Derp Derp Derp Derp Derp Derp Derp Derp Derp Derp Derp Derp Derp Derp Derp Derp Derp Derp Derp Derp Derp Derp Derp Derp Derp Derp Derp Derp Derp Derp Derp Derp Derp Derp Derp Derp Derp Derp Derp Derp Derp Derp Derp Derp Derp Derp Derp Derp Derp Derp Derp Derp Derp Derp Derp Derp Derp Derp Derp Derp Derp Derp Derp Derp Derp Derp Derp Derp Derp Derp Derp Derp Derp Derp Derp Derp Derp Derp Derp Derp Derp Derp Derp Derp Derp Derp Derp Derp Derp Derp Derp Derp Derp Derp Derp Derp Derp Derp Derp Derp Derp Derp Derp Derp Derp Derp Derp Derp Derp Derp Derp Derp Derp Derp Derp Derp Derp Derp Derp Derp Derp Derp Derp Derp Derp Derp Derp Derp Derp Derp Derp Derp Derp Derp Derp Derp Derp Derp Derp Derp Derp Derp Derp Derp Derp Derp Derp Derp Derp Derp Derp Derp Derp Derp Derp Derp Derp Derp Derp Derp Derp Derp Derp Derp Derp Derp Derp Derp Derp Derp Derp Derp Derp Derp Derp Derp Derp Derp Derp Derp Derp Derp Derp Derp Derp Derp Derp Derp Derp Derp Der...

Sorry. There goes my Stupid alarm again.

Been going off a lot lately.

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Response to WilliamPitt (Reply #45)

Tue Dec 18, 2012, 11:43 AM

51. +1

 

wasn't it femrap that nearly threw SCE out?

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Response to WilliamPitt (Reply #45)

Tue Dec 18, 2012, 03:33 PM

94. Thanks, Will.

 

Have you asked any vets from Iraq why violent videos were played before they went on their nightly raids?

I love playing that video game where I get to pull my enemy's heart out of his chest. Fun.

And you're mr. intelligent on DU? How many times have you been kicked off?

Maybe you'll teach your kid how to play violent videos? That could be some great quality father-child time.

Stupid....right? Ain't that against the rules, bill?

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Response to femrap (Reply #94)

Tue Dec 18, 2012, 03:43 PM

101. Derp Derp Derp Derp Derp Derp Derp Derp Derp

Derp Derp Derp Derp Derp Derp Derp Derp Derp Derp Derp Derp Derp Derp Derp Derp Derp Derp Derp Derp Derp Derp Derp Derp Derp Derp Derp Derp Derp Derp Derp Derp Derp Derp Derp Derp Derp Derp Derp Derp Derp Derp Derp Derp Derp Derp Derp Derp Derp Derp Derp Derp Derp Derp Derp Derp Derp Derp Derp Derp Derp Derp Derp Derp Derp Derp Derp Derp Derp Derp Derp Derp Derp Derp Derp Derp Derp Derp Derp Derp Derp Derp Derp Derp Derp Derp Derp Derp Derp Derp Derp Derp Derp Derp Derp Derp Derp Derp Derp Derp Derp Derp Derp Derp Derp Derp Derp Der...

There it goes again.

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Response to femrap (Reply #11)

Tue Dec 18, 2012, 12:00 PM

53. NO, they desensitize people that already have problems.

Video games are not SOLELY responsible for anyone being a murderer. its disingenuous to say otherwise

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Response to femrap (Reply #11)


Response to femrap (Reply #11)

Tue Dec 18, 2012, 01:39 PM

64. Oh Jesus christ....

Someone needs their daily minute of attention.

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Response to ProudToBeBlueInRhody (Reply #64)

Tue Dec 18, 2012, 03:14 PM

77. No kidding

Just one incendiary post after another.

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Response to ProudToBeBlueInRhody (Reply #64)

Tue Dec 18, 2012, 04:14 PM

107. I just peed my pants, ProutToBeBlueInRhody!

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Response to femrap (Reply #11)

Tue Dec 18, 2012, 03:13 PM

75. Bullshit

When you have people that can't distinguish between fantasy and reality, anything can happen. Add guns with massive magazines into the mix, and that is where your problem is.

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Response to femrap (Reply #11)

Tue Dec 18, 2012, 04:02 PM

106. You left out gangster rap

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Response to femrap (Reply #11)

Tue Dec 18, 2012, 09:02 PM

131. Seems like we've had violent entertainment for a while

The guy who wrote this almost went out of business because dog fighting, near baiting, and public executions were more popular forms of entertainment. Not so much into the video games, though. Actually, now that I think about it, they DID shut down this guy's theatre when a small group got outraged about the immorality on display; didn't seem to have any effect on that nation's rate of violence (and which currently enjoys all of the same violent video games Americans do).

Rape and murder, entertainment available in any American school:
How yet resolves the governor of the town?
This is the latest parle we will admit;
Therefore to our best mercy give yourselves;
Or like to men proud of destruction
Defy us to our worst: for, as I am a soldier,
A name that in my thoughts becomes me best,
If I begin the battery once again,
I will not leave the half-achieved Harfleur
Till in her ashes she lie buried.
The gates of mercy shall be all shut up,
And the flesh'd soldier, rough and hard of heart,
In liberty of bloody hand shall range
With conscience wide as hell, mowing like grass
Your fresh-fair virgins and your flowering infants.
What is it then to me, if impious war,
Array'd in flames like to the prince of fiends,
Do, with his smirch'd complexion, all fell feats
Enlink'd to waste and desolation?
What is't to me, when you yourselves are cause,
If your pure maidens fall into the hand
Of hot and forcing violation?
What rein can hold licentious wickedness
When down the hill he holds his fierce career?
We may as bootless spend our vain command
Upon the enraged soldiers in their spoil
As send precepts to the leviathan
To come ashore. Therefore, you men of Harfleur,
Take pity of your town and of your people,
Whiles yet my soldiers are in my command;
Whiles yet the cool and temperate wind of grace
O'erblows the filthy and contagious clouds
Of heady murder, spoil and villany.
If not, why, in a moment look to see
The blind and bloody soldier with foul hand
Defile the locks of your shrill-shrieking daughters;
Your fathers taken by the silver beards,
And their most reverend heads dash'd to the walls,
Your naked infants spitted upon pikes,
Whiles the mad mothers with their howls confused
Do break the clouds, as did the wives of Jewry
At Herod's bloody-hunting slaughtermen.
What say you? will you yield, and this avoid,
Or, guilty in defence, be thus destroy'd?

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Response to Ohio Joe (Original post)

Tue Dec 18, 2012, 12:26 AM

17. Guns are only part of the problem. The mental health of those with guns is part of the problem.

Societie's acceptance of gun-porn in games, in movies and on tv is part of the problem. Guns by themselves are not the complete problem. While most adults can handle the violent gun-porn, it should not be made available to children. Sex-porn isnt, why gun-porn?

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Response to rhett o rick (Reply #17)

Tue Dec 18, 2012, 02:48 AM

34. There is a rating system in place

and these games are not for children, but parents ignore it and then blame others for their own mistakes.

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Response to Lordquinton (Reply #34)

Tue Dec 18, 2012, 03:22 AM

35. Exactly.

I've seen clerks at Gamestop tell parents of kids who look to be about 10 or 11 that they have to show ID to buy these games because they are rated M and can't be sold to anyone under 18 and the parents go ahead and buy them. Now, if those parents think their kids are mature enough to play those games fine, but when parents don't do research and then ask the government to step in I have a problem.

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Response to white_wolf (Reply #35)

Tue Dec 18, 2012, 09:19 PM

133. dammit!

i can't recommend this post...

i've worked at gamestop too, and yeah, parents will and have ignored the rating system... and then i had to listen to it when they come screaming back complaining that grand theft auto was too violent for their little woogums.... heck, i even tried to steer parents towards other games if i knew how old the kid was... but noooo little woogums had to have it... and i got to deal with it later.... sometime i think parents really need a good dopeslap...

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Response to Lordquinton (Reply #34)

Tue Dec 18, 2012, 10:41 AM

44. Somehow we manage to keep sex-porn out of the hands of children

Why cant we keep the gun-porn out of their hands? Just saying it's the parent's fault, wont fix the problem. Maybe tax gun-porn and use the revenue to run tv ads to teach the parents how deadly it is.

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Response to rhett o rick (Reply #44)

Wed Dec 19, 2012, 12:16 AM

137. Just saying it's the parent's fault won't help

the parents have to realize that if they don't want their kid to have something, then they shouldn't give it to their kids. These things are clearly marked as "M for Mature" which is like a rated R movie, NOT FOR CHILDREN. Store employees can get fired for selling them to minors, but they can't do a thing about selling it to the parents, who then give it to their kids, then come on the internet and complain about their kids having violent games, how they sit there watching their kids play violent games, and watch violent movies, and they don't know what to do about it!

If only there was a way for parents to not give their children these violent not for children games! Someone think of these poor parents who have no idea how to say no to their kids!

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Response to Lordquinton (Reply #137)

Wed Dec 19, 2012, 12:56 AM

139. It's our problem. These parents say no to their children when it comes to sex-porn.

But society has come to accept violence-porn. It's on tv every day. Show a females boob and they shut you down but Dexter can kill at will.

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Response to Ohio Joe (Original post)

Tue Dec 18, 2012, 12:27 AM

18. I agree with you. I would love to talk to an ER doctor and ask him how many

injuries and weapons assaults he treats every week from video games.

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Response to Cleita (Reply #18)

Tue Dec 18, 2012, 01:46 PM

66. hey, carpal tunnel syndrome is no laughing matter!



Video games can really put the hurt on you, if you're not careful

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Response to 0rganism (Reply #66)

Tue Dec 18, 2012, 01:51 PM

67. The difference is that you are hurting yourself and no one else. n/t

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Response to Cleita (Reply #67)

Tue Dec 18, 2012, 02:09 PM

70. have you seen how grouchy CTS sufferers can be?

the pain spreads far and wide!

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Response to Ohio Joe (Original post)


Response to Ohio Joe (Original post)

Tue Dec 18, 2012, 12:52 AM

23. Some people desperately want to change the subject from guns.

That's what is happening.

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Response to Warren DeMontague (Reply #23)

Tue Dec 18, 2012, 12:59 AM

26. The issues are guns and more n/t

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Response to WheelWalker (Reply #26)

Tue Dec 18, 2012, 01:09 AM

28. No, the issue is guns. The common denominator in all these stories is high-powered weapons designed

to kill lots of people in a short period of time.

Attempts to change the subject or make this about other shit, a la Mike Huckabee, are not going to work this time.

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Response to Warren DeMontague (Reply #28)

Tue Dec 18, 2012, 05:48 PM

118. +1

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Response to Warren DeMontague (Reply #28)

Tue Dec 18, 2012, 08:30 PM

123. I'm not "making it about" the other shit. You are ignoring "the other shit". That's all.

You might want to explore proximate causation v. ultimate causation. If one seeks to prevent an event, addressing both would be prudent in my opinion.

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Response to WheelWalker (Reply #123)

Tue Dec 18, 2012, 08:41 PM

124. I seek to prevent people from buying these.



That is where I'm at right now.

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Response to Warren DeMontague (Reply #124)

Tue Dec 18, 2012, 08:56 PM

128. I understand; and I agree. But a "war on guns" is as likely to be successful as

the "war on drugs" if we fail to identify and address ultimate causes while engaging proximate causes. I hope you can see my point as well. And you are correct. At the proximate level, "it's the guns, stupid." I think our respective sig lines frame our conversation quite well.

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Response to Ohio Joe (Original post)

Tue Dec 18, 2012, 12:55 AM

25. I think I love you

 

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Response to Ohio Joe (Original post)

Tue Dec 18, 2012, 01:16 AM

31. Have fun

I'm more of a minecraft girl myself.

But yeah, it's not the games. It's the guns.

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Response to abelenkpe (Reply #31)

Tue Dec 18, 2012, 12:28 PM

57. Ooooo I like Minecraft

I also like skyrim. The only issue with both is how addicted you're going to get.

To be honest, shooting games are totally boring, imo, but I don't see the big deal about them.

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Response to Ohio Joe (Original post)

Tue Dec 18, 2012, 01:24 AM

32. My game is politics. Journey and Flow games.

I dont play video games but I heard Journey and Flow are 2 good non-violent games.
My game is politics. I like to go to Fox Nation and other Teabagger fortresses and blast them with facts til their heads spin. THAT is FUN!

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Response to Ohio Joe (Original post)

Tue Dec 18, 2012, 10:17 AM

37. Do you think society would be better off with LESS glorified violence instead of MORE?

Agreement with that does NOT mean video games are to blame for mass killings.

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Response to randome (Reply #37)

Tue Dec 18, 2012, 04:43 PM

112. I don't think violence is glorified. I think it's amplified. Representations of it are not IT, howev

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Response to ancianita (Reply #112)

Tue Dec 18, 2012, 06:02 PM

120. Really. You don't think violence is glorified in games and movies?

Unbelievable. Everyone wants to protect their own turf instead of helping to be part of a solution.

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Response to randome (Reply #120)

Tue Dec 18, 2012, 09:12 PM

132. I don't think your use of glorified means what you think it means. We're basically calling the same

thing by different names. Violence is part of nature, the universe, and human life in the sense that there's a drive to dominance and power. There's the need to kill to eat or survive. If you accept that these are real, then how are they "glorified"? In my view they're just amplified in videos because they're a representational experience of fight/flight response, used in age-old journey story games, search and destroy games and whatever else. They come out of old story frameworks that have been around for centuries, and can actually can be quite cathartic an experience for players. There's no particular turf to be protected on my account.

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Response to randome (Reply #37)

Tue Dec 18, 2012, 09:01 PM

130. Other nations get the same games.

Yet they are far less violent. The difference? Fewer guns.

As for whether or not it would help society, it wouldn't change it. Media reflects society, it doesn't create society.

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Response to Ohio Joe (Original post)

Tue Dec 18, 2012, 10:35 AM

40. The CYA Game...

Firstly...no, I don't think that video games alone, nor Hollywood movies alone are responsible for nuts going out with high powered weaponry and killing innocent people. Life isn't that simple...nor are the stories that evolve when you look into what signs there were as to what would lead someone to want to create so much mayhem and death. No question there's a mental health component that is skirted by most as it's the hardest problem to understand and solve. It's extremely difficult in a culture where mental illness is considered a weakness not a serious health problem and we really don't learn how bad situations have gotten until the person snaps and there is yet another massacre. Could games and movies desensitize someone and have flipped the switch on this or another killer? The answers are inconclusive as the facts in the case remain so. Is it the sole cause...again, no...but let's see over time what the investigation into this massacre and the killer find out.

The unfortunate problem is that one group under attack is blaming another group who then retorts with an attack on that or another group. It's a blame game that enables people who feel some kind of guilt to wash it off. It doesn't further the ultimate goal to prevent future massacres and creates yet more consternation.

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Response to KharmaTrain (Reply #40)

Tue Dec 18, 2012, 10:40 AM

42. The blame the video games game is instituted by the NRA

 

Anything but the guns.

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Response to RomneyLies (Reply #42)

Tue Dec 18, 2012, 10:45 AM

47. I'm Very Aware...

...and that's what I was trying to allude to in the title. However, what I want to point out is how this starts a chain reaction where those who are blamed either blame back or try to find someone else as the problem. It's a master distraction that pulls away from the real causes that we're just starting to learn about in this massacre and does little to further a dialogue that will lead to any true gun control legislation.

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Response to Ohio Joe (Original post)

Tue Dec 18, 2012, 10:39 AM

41. I just downloaded American Army 3 on my copy of Steam

 

When the US Army stops making an FPS, maybe then I'll consider giving up my games.

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Response to Ohio Joe (Original post)

Tue Dec 18, 2012, 10:45 AM

46. Agreed. I have yet to read about anyone using a video game as a murder weapon in a mass killing...

....the same goes for violent movies.

Firearms are just too easily obtainable, either by legitimate purchase from a licensed gun dealer, or by buying weapons that are completely unregistered, or by outright theft.

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Response to OldDem2012 (Reply #46)

Tue Dec 18, 2012, 12:21 PM

55. How's about something that looks like a video game that actually kills people...like a drone attack

 

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Response to dkf (Reply #55)

Tue Dec 18, 2012, 12:39 PM

59. Oh, please. Drones are clearly not a video game, and they aren't being used....

....for attacks of any kind in the US. Additionally, nobody but specially trained and cleared personnel in the US military and the intelligence agencies have access to drones.

Got anything reasonable and rational refuting the fact that nobody has used a video game in a mass killing?

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Response to dkf (Reply #55)

Wed Dec 19, 2012, 12:58 PM

141. Sounds like your imagination is trying hard to come up with shit.

And failed.

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Response to Ohio Joe (Original post)

Tue Dec 18, 2012, 10:47 AM

48. A video game cannot itself kill anyone. A gun can.

Hence, guns are a much bigger issue to me than video games.

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Response to Ohio Joe (Original post)

Tue Dec 18, 2012, 11:58 AM

52. This is NOT about video games at all.

This is about easy access to killing machines, and mental disorders. Shooting pixels and 1's and 0's does NOT turn you into a murderer without some other contributing factor. If that be the case, then over half the US population would be murderous thugs.

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Response to Ohio Joe (Original post)

Tue Dec 18, 2012, 12:29 PM

58. Lucky You!

Purple Kush? I'm jealous!

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Response to BigDemVoter (Reply #58)

Tue Dec 18, 2012, 12:49 PM

61. I got a great deal on it

I picked it up at a local dispensary on Black Friday for $100.

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Response to Ohio Joe (Reply #61)

Tue Dec 18, 2012, 02:54 PM

71. I am still not used to the fact that when I light up..

I don't have to look over my shoulder. It's quite freeing...

I had no idea DU had a gaming group.. I'm a GD dweller. I'll have to head over there, after a;ll we already have purple kush and BL2 in common

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Response to SomethingFishy (Reply #71)

Tue Dec 18, 2012, 03:11 PM

74. It's right this way

http://www.democraticunderground.com/?com=forum&id=1211

If you are doing BL2 on the PS3, feel free to PM me for my ID.

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Response to Ohio Joe (Reply #74)

Tue Dec 18, 2012, 03:18 PM

81. PS3? How dare you!? It's PC or else! xD

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Response to white_wolf (Reply #81)

Tue Dec 18, 2012, 03:26 PM

86. PC for me too.. I leave the consoles for the kids..

Although I do play Black Ops 2 on the PS3 as I didn't want to buy 2 copies...

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Response to SomethingFishy (Reply #86)

Tue Dec 18, 2012, 03:29 PM

90. I have a Wii U, but that's mainly for Nintendo exclusives.

I'm mainly an RPG fan and most RPGs are just better on PC.

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Response to Ohio Joe (Original post)

Tue Dec 18, 2012, 12:46 PM

60. Games are NOT the problem

I don't have the urge to run around shooting people with a bow and arrow because I played Diablo 3. I don't have the urge to smack people with a wrench because I play Torchlight 2.

The problem is that we need better mental health in this country, and yes, I'm going to say it, we need better gun control policies. What sane human being needs an assault rifle or a gun clip that holds bunches of rounds? There is only one thing those weapons do, and that is kill efficiently. Too efficiently.

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Response to Ohio Joe (Original post)

Tue Dec 18, 2012, 12:52 PM

62. The year with the most mass killings in American history? 1929

I can only imagine how bad their video games must have been.

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Response to Ohio Joe (Original post)

Tue Dec 18, 2012, 01:38 PM

63. Friday night on TV there was an ad for the latest Call of Duty

I did say to my (gamer) SO "and you wonder where that Lanza kid got the idea that shooting up a room full of people might be a really fun thing to do?"

It would be impossible to ban or censor video games, but I do worry about anti-social boys sitting around for days on end playing shooter games, and what this does to their wiring.

My SO claims that shooting zombies is helping him prepare for the coming Zombie Apocolypse, so they have a positive purpose.

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Response to Ohio Joe (Original post)

Tue Dec 18, 2012, 01:52 PM

68. I would disagree...

but I know how violent "you people" can be...

Do I need the sarcasm thingy?

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Response to Ohio Joe (Original post)

Tue Dec 18, 2012, 03:23 PM

84. Hey I have been looking for something similar to Fallout

how close does Borderlands come in that respect?

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Response to Puzzledtraveller (Reply #84)

Tue Dec 18, 2012, 03:30 PM

92. Not close at all

Borderlands has some RPG elements but is much more a FPS. You might take a look at Skyrim or perhaps Metro 2033, you will find them much closer to Fallout.

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Response to Puzzledtraveller (Reply #84)

Tue Dec 18, 2012, 03:39 PM

97. Not really

Kinda of cartoony looking, and it's a one objective to the next type of game.

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Response to Puzzledtraveller (Reply #84)

Tue Dec 18, 2012, 06:48 PM

121. I suggest the Mass Effect trilogy

I had lots of fun playing that...also, if you play each sequel on the same system you played the original, you can keep some attributes of your first character in to the new games.

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Response to Ohio Joe (Original post)

Tue Dec 18, 2012, 03:29 PM

91. Wow. I was expecting

something meaningful and insightful regarding gaming, gamers, guns, and how they relate to the Sandy Hook murders. Instead I get a slightly modified NRA talking point. You do no justice to the group you host. I honestly expected more.

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Response to sdfernando (Reply #91)

Tue Dec 18, 2012, 03:37 PM

95. Apparently no one wants to answer my question upthread.

Do you think society would be better off with LESS glorified violence instead of MORE?

Is there a 'gamer' in this thread who wants to answer this?

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Response to randome (Reply #95)

Tue Dec 18, 2012, 04:42 PM

110. Not sure why you directed this at me

I'm not a gamer and likely never will be even though I make my living working deeply buried in IT.

I do think less glorified violence would be better but I'm not convinced it would help much. I'll have to look it up but I believe there have been studies (maybe only one) that found no correlation between gamers who participate in violent games and mass shootings.

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Response to sdfernando (Reply #110)

Tue Dec 18, 2012, 05:02 PM

116. I was agreeing with your point and offering my own.

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Response to sdfernando (Reply #91)

Tue Dec 18, 2012, 03:40 PM

98. Putting the focus on guns instead of games is an NRA talking point?

heh, too funny.

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Response to Ohio Joe (Reply #98)

Tue Dec 18, 2012, 04:38 PM

109. Not funny at all

The NRA talking point is that guns don't kill people, people do. You just modified that slightly.

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Response to sdfernando (Reply #109)

Tue Dec 18, 2012, 04:42 PM

111. Has anyone used a videogame to kill people no?

Is there any hard evidence that videogames lead to violence? No. So drop it unless you have some facts to back up inane argument.

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Response to white_wolf (Reply #111)

Tue Dec 18, 2012, 04:48 PM

114. go back up and read what I posted

I was not arguing that videogames kill people. I was saying the OP should have expanded more on his point instead of a stupid modified talking point. Look up thread and you will see that I actually believe there IS a study that shows no link, I just can't find it right now. If I, as a non-gamer know about this I would think the OP would too and post relevant to his argument.

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Response to white_wolf (Reply #111)

Wed Dec 19, 2012, 06:08 AM

140. NO, however


Hopefully parents will think twice before exposing young kids to playing violent video games and watching violent movies; these are the things that de-sensitize growing kids to killing & violence, and make some of them more prone to acting on it in some way. Now imagine a troubled kid (and there are many out there) with anger issues with easy access to weapons that he/she has familiarity with; it doesn't take much to cross the line.

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Response to Ohio Joe (Original post)

Tue Dec 18, 2012, 03:38 PM

96. Video games the super-opiate of the masses

There are kids who stay up all night hopelessly addicted to video games. is effects their grades and dumbs down America. Just what the Republicans crave so they can get away with anything. Their mission has apparently been successful.

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Response to Ohio Joe (Original post)

Tue Dec 18, 2012, 03:41 PM

99. I'm addicted to Civilization

And so far I haven't invaded any other countries IRL. If someone has difficulty distinguishing between a game and reality, his or her problems go way beyond the game. Take away the game, and the person would - I don't know - read Ayn Rand and think he's John Galt or something.

That's like blaming monopoly for Donald Trump.

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Response to FloridaJudy (Reply #99)

Tue Dec 18, 2012, 03:45 PM

103. Monopoly was actually invented to educate kids about the evils of capitalism.

The inventor was a follower of the Georgism school of economics. I don't know the details, but it was anti-capitalist.

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Response to FloridaJudy (Reply #99)

Tue Dec 18, 2012, 08:43 PM

125. MY WORDS ARE BACKED WITH THERMONUCLEAR WEAPONS!!!

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Response to Odin2005 (Reply #125)

Wed Dec 19, 2012, 07:16 PM

144. So are mine

Now go away. It doesn't seem to matter which nationality I play - I always seem to end up playing like Switzerland. I don't keep much of an army - just reinforce the hell out of my cities. Then I happily avoid all invitations to battle.

"Alexander the Great is a nuisance". Sure, whatever. You go fight him. I just wanna build the Large Hadron Collider...

I hate being next door to those maniacs though. I'll have stealth bombers and destroyers and the idiots like Alexander and Genghis Khan will be attacking me with spearmen and pikemen just for the hell of it. WTF?

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Response to Ohio Joe (Original post)

Tue Dec 18, 2012, 03:42 PM

100. Hey Joe,

 

I think I'm done now. Only a few wanted to look at the connection. But they do desensitize humans to violence. Let the MSM rock your world. You do know that video games are part and parcel of the MSM....those 5 rich, white dudes who control about 85% of the media in the US.

You go make lots of money. Maybe you can get a military contract...seriously. They want the most violent of the most violent.

And if I bug you, put me on Ignore. No problem. Or maybe I could ignore you. I'll think about it.

Have a great life, Joe. Everyone has to do what they have to do to survive. Don't they?

And for the posse: You have a nice day as well. You are truly great followers.


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Response to femrap (Reply #100)

Tue Dec 18, 2012, 03:52 PM

104. There's only 5. Pretending to be thousands.

Sort of like...

oh, never mind.

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Response to Ohio Joe (Original post)

Tue Dec 18, 2012, 03:45 PM

102. Exactly. The attempt to change the conversation to anything but guns

is transparent and pathetic.

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Response to Ohio Joe (Original post)

Tue Dec 18, 2012, 04:01 PM

105. Hi, Joe!

Would you be smoking that Purple Kush here in a mountain state where it's now legal? How've you been?

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Response to kaiden (Reply #105)

Tue Dec 18, 2012, 07:13 PM

122. Hey!

I'm doing ok, I'm in the process of getting promoted at my job, I'll be up to Project Manager and it took me less then a year I picked up a red card a few months back... If only switching my license over were so easy, heh, I'm on hold until I get a copy of my birth certificate from NJ... Red card, no problem, heh. I also moved, I'm not over by Broadway and Alameda anymore, I'm over near Airport and Colfax in Aurora (a guy I work with calls it 'The Colonies', no clue why). When I get my car on the road again though, I am thinking of trying to do a Denver area DU meet-up, all this time out here now and I've only met up with Hotler once.

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Response to Ohio Joe (Reply #122)

Wed Dec 19, 2012, 01:55 PM

143. You moved way out there? Yikes! Do you like it?

Longtime locals call Eastern Aurora either Bumfuck Egypt or Kansas. hahahahaha

Yes. We need a meet up. When the DNC was here in 2008, many DUers met up at Racine's. Nice place.

BTW, back in the '90s, I used to play Redneck Rampage (and I neither became a redneck one one who rampages). Does it still exist in some form?

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Response to Ohio Joe (Original post)

Tue Dec 18, 2012, 04:38 PM

108. K and R! n/t

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Response to Ohio Joe (Original post)

Tue Dec 18, 2012, 04:44 PM

113. Competely agree.

The shrill voices crying over video game violence seem to ignore the real violence going on around them.

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Response to Ohio Joe (Original post)

Tue Dec 18, 2012, 04:55 PM

115. I'm stuck with family this holiday, so smoke a big one for me. Please, please. <3 nt

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Response to Ohio Joe (Original post)

Tue Dec 18, 2012, 08:51 PM

126. There is a gaming group on DU?? Who knew.


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Response to madinmaryland (Reply #126)

Tue Dec 18, 2012, 10:14 PM

134. Hell Yeah! Read about EarlG getting blackmailed online

http://www.democraticunderground.com/12111334

It's like smokers island at work... All the best gossip

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Response to Ohio Joe (Reply #134)

Tue Dec 18, 2012, 11:06 PM

136. Wow! I read that thread and didn't understand a damn thing that was being

talked about!


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Response to Ohio Joe (Original post)

Wed Dec 19, 2012, 12:20 AM

138. I've been an avid female gamer since I was a kid...

now off to investigate DU gaming forum..

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