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Mon Dec 17, 2012, 09:50 PM

A ‘fiscal cliff’ deal is near: Here are the details by Ezra Klein

All at once, a “fiscal cliff” deal seems to be coming together. Speaker John Boehner’s latest offer doesn’t go quite far enough for the White House to agree, but it goes far enough that many think they can see the agreement taking shape.

Boehner offered to let tax rates rise for income over $1 million. The White House wanted to let tax rates rise for income over $250,000. The compromise will likely be somewhere in between. More revenue will come from limiting deductions, likely using some variant of the White House’s oft-proposed, oft-rejected idea for limiting itemized deductions to 28 percent. The total revenue raised by the two policies will likely be a bit north of $1 trillion. Congress will get instructions to use this new baseline to embark on tax reform next year. Importantly, if tax reform never happens, the revenue will already be locked in.

On the spending side, the Democrats’ headline concession will be accepting chained-CPI, which is to say, accepting a cut to Social Security benefits. Beyond that, the negotiators will agree to targets for spending cuts. Expect the final number here, too, to be in the neighborhood of $1 trillion, but also expect it to lack many specifics. Whether the cuts come from Medicare or Medicaid, whether they include raising the Medicare age, and many of the other contentious issues in the talks will be left up to Congress.

http://www.washingtonpost.com/blogs/wonkblog/wp/2012/12/17/a-fiscal-cliff-deal-is-near-here-are-the-details/

53 replies, 3520 views

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Arrow 53 replies Author Time Post
Reply A ‘fiscal cliff’ deal is near: Here are the details by Ezra Klein (Original post)
sasha031 Dec 2012 OP
CaliforniaPeggy Dec 2012 #1
roguevalley Dec 2012 #38
CaliforniaPeggy Dec 2012 #45
limpyhobbler Dec 2012 #2
Fridays Child Dec 2012 #3
Marr Dec 2012 #30
TalkingDog Dec 2012 #36
rocktivity Dec 2012 #4
Cobalt Violet Dec 2012 #5
Esse Quam Videri Dec 2012 #26
Fumesucker Dec 2012 #40
Cobalt Violet Dec 2012 #48
gkhouston Dec 2012 #6
jerseyjack Dec 2012 #7
HiPointDem Dec 2012 #8
forestpath Dec 2012 #9
sabrina 1 Dec 2012 #10
bkkyosemite Dec 2012 #11
bkkyosemite Dec 2012 #12
wildbilln864 Dec 2012 #16
bkkyosemite Dec 2012 #34
bluestateguy Dec 2012 #13
HiPointDem Dec 2012 #14
JDPriestly Dec 2012 #15
sasha031 Dec 2012 #24
sunnystarr Dec 2012 #28
Skittles Dec 2012 #17
kath Dec 2012 #18
iemitsu Dec 2012 #29
JaneyVee Dec 2012 #19
amborin Dec 2012 #20
Fumesucker Dec 2012 #42
amborin Dec 2012 #50
BlueStreak Dec 2012 #52
RegieRocker Dec 2012 #21
Faryn Balyncd Dec 2012 #22
HiPointDem Dec 2012 #23
DJ13 Dec 2012 #32
lob1 Dec 2012 #25
SidDithers Dec 2012 #27
Fumesucker Dec 2012 #43
Marr Dec 2012 #31
robinlynne Dec 2012 #33
John2 Dec 2012 #35
Honeycombe8 Dec 2012 #37
nadinbrzezinski Dec 2012 #39
Mel Content Dec 2012 #41
Tierra_y_Libertad Dec 2012 #44
pangaia Dec 2012 #51
madfloridian Dec 2012 #46
HiPointDem Dec 2012 #47
DCBob Dec 2012 #49
Owl Dec 2012 #53

Response to sasha031 (Original post)

Mon Dec 17, 2012, 09:53 PM

1. Shit.

This is not acceptable. I'm hoping the final details will not be so dire.

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Response to CaliforniaPeggy (Reply #1)

Tue Dec 18, 2012, 12:54 AM

38. both sides are complicit in bullshit to me if they AGAIN, A-FUCKING-GAIN

make us shoulder the greatest burden. What is it with Mr. Obama that he has to feel there is a compromise in every single thing? I am tired.

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Response to roguevalley (Reply #38)

Tue Dec 18, 2012, 01:06 AM

45. I don't get it either, and I too am tired of all the BS. STOP ALREADY.

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Response to sasha031 (Original post)

Mon Dec 17, 2012, 09:56 PM

2. cutting social security still seems kind of mean to me

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Response to sasha031 (Original post)

Mon Dec 17, 2012, 09:57 PM

3. No! President Obama, please listen to Robert Reich. You don't need to cave!

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Response to Fridays Child (Reply #3)

Mon Dec 17, 2012, 10:50 PM

30. It's not caving when you want it.

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Response to Marr (Reply #30)

Mon Dec 17, 2012, 11:43 PM

36. There you go. Monetarily, he places himself as a moderate Republican.

n/t

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Response to sasha031 (Original post)

Mon Dec 17, 2012, 09:57 PM

4. Will this end up with us making more money than with going off the cliff, or not?

If not, GO OFF THE CLIFF!

If Medicare needs money, lower the eligibility age. If Soc Sec needs money, get rid of the salary cap. Thank you and good night.


rocktivity

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Response to sasha031 (Original post)

Mon Dec 17, 2012, 09:57 PM

5. Fuck! The payroll tax break will expire.

Looks like I'll have to put my cat to sleep. I won't be able to afford his meds.


And oh no mention of any pentagon cuts. ASSHOLES!

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Response to Cobalt Violet (Reply #5)

Mon Dec 17, 2012, 10:39 PM

26. Please PM me if you are no longer able to care for your cat

because of the compromise.

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Response to Esse Quam Videri (Reply #26)

Tue Dec 18, 2012, 12:59 AM

40. ...

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Response to Esse Quam Videri (Reply #26)

Tue Dec 18, 2012, 07:29 AM

48. Will do.

That extra $10 a week in my miserly minimum wage check may not seem like much to anyone else but it has helped me a lot.

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Response to sasha031 (Original post)

Mon Dec 17, 2012, 09:58 PM

6. "many think they can see the agreement taking shape"

Translation: talking out of our asses.

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Response to sasha031 (Original post)

Mon Dec 17, 2012, 09:59 PM

7. Obama is gonna fuck us over.

 

No cuts in military?
No removing the cap on SS contributions?

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Response to sasha031 (Original post)

Mon Dec 17, 2012, 09:59 PM

8. chained CPT = 10% cuts over something like 5-10 years, and continuing cuts all down the line.

 

if this is true, i hope people will get a clue. it can't stand. the average benefit *now* is $1231.

That worker would be looking at a $100 decrease in purchasing power within 10 years or less.

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Response to sasha031 (Original post)

Mon Dec 17, 2012, 10:00 PM

9. Over the cliff with you, seniors! SOMEBODY has to cushion the wealthy, y'know.

 

It's not like President Obama would ever let them suffer!

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Response to sasha031 (Original post)

Mon Dec 17, 2012, 10:00 PM

10. No, this better not be true!

This would be an outrage and there will be huge blowback for any democrat who goes along with it.

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Response to sasha031 (Original post)

Mon Dec 17, 2012, 10:01 PM

11. Social Security I read on DU in another thread he will cut the

cost of living for SS...omg ....the 1% we will get this next year won't cover the raise in medicare b premiums nor the supplemental medical insurance rate hike so far is about $30...and he wants to cut the cost of living on Social Security DAMNIT!!!!!!!!! Leave our benefits we paid for alone!

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Response to bkkyosemite (Reply #11)

Mon Dec 17, 2012, 10:04 PM

12. Each year I keep going in the hole more

with the cost of insurances going up and the fixed income not going up enough to cover the rate increases not including car insurance and groceries etc. They are trying to kill us off before our time...I am very upset about Obama doing this to us if that is the case. Leave our Social Security and Medicare alone We paid into it...it is not an entitlement.

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Response to bkkyosemite (Reply #12)

Mon Dec 17, 2012, 10:16 PM

16. sorry but it is an entitlement!

because if you paid into it then you are entitled to it! It should not even be on the table!

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Response to wildbilln864 (Reply #16)

Mon Dec 17, 2012, 11:08 PM

34. In that sense yes but not in the sense of the Republican way.........

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Response to sasha031 (Original post)

Mon Dec 17, 2012, 10:09 PM

13. I'm washing my hands of the so called "fiscal cliff"

To pay it any attention is to give it a legitimacy it does not deserve.

My attention is on Newtown right now.

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Response to sasha031 (Original post)

Mon Dec 17, 2012, 10:10 PM

14. and still no significant punishment of the MASSIVE FRAUD of the bankster class. The money

 

workers paid in THEIR ENTIRE WORKING LIVES has to be stolen to make good the banksters' bad bets.

It's so fucking wrong.

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Response to sasha031 (Original post)

Mon Dec 17, 2012, 10:11 PM

15. Accepting chained CPI is extremely unfair.

Obama just reduced the payroll tax as part of the most recent stimulus effort.

If Social Security has enough money to permit cuts to payroll taxes, why reduce payments to seniors who paid the full benefits to their parents?

This is absolutely unacceptable to this active Democrat.

Sorry, President Obama, this will hurt the poorest and sickest seniors -- those to whom a few dollars at the ends of their lives mean a lot. This will hurt nursing home care since, in addition to some Medicaid, nursing homes depend upon the Social Security benefits of their patients for revenue.

This is an unacceptable idea. It will mostly hurt the poorest and sickest.

Wealthy seniors won't feel it.

Poor seniors, those unlucky seniors who suffer from illnesses as they age (most of us) will really suffer from the loss.

Horrors! I will be calling my congressmembers tomorrow.

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Response to JDPriestly (Reply #15)

Mon Dec 17, 2012, 10:35 PM

24. SS is not part of the deficit

This is totally unfair, very disappointed by this

We all been so focused on Newtown, then have this one slipped under the rug when we're not looking.

I'm making the phone call to tomorrow.

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Response to JDPriestly (Reply #15)

Mon Dec 17, 2012, 10:41 PM

28. The reason they think it's acceptable

is because the average seniors and soon-to-be seniors across our nation won't understand what chained CPI means and what it will do to future benefits. So they expect limited political fallout since the reality won't settle in for years to recipients.

Sold out again.

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Response to sasha031 (Original post)

Mon Dec 17, 2012, 10:17 PM

17. NOT acceptable

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Response to sasha031 (Original post)

Mon Dec 17, 2012, 10:18 PM

18. FUCK this shit - any cut to SS is utterly unacceptable.

The concept of it happening under a so-called "Democratic" administration would have been totally unthinkable not that long ago.


AAAAAAARRRRRRRRGGGGGGHHHHHHH.

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Response to kath (Reply #18)

Mon Dec 17, 2012, 10:48 PM

29. If Obama cuts Social Security or Medicar it won't matter

what else he does he will be remembered for that alone.
And it won't be just the racists who hate him for doing it.

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Response to sasha031 (Original post)

Mon Dec 17, 2012, 10:20 PM

19. Anyone else just throw up in their mouth's a little after reading this?

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Response to sasha031 (Original post)

Mon Dec 17, 2012, 10:22 PM

20. this has to be a bad joke; Obama and Dems have ALL THE POWERE. PLEASE, WHY?

why is Obama doing this? i really held out hope that his second term would be different, now that he doesn't need
to worry about re-election.

this is a nightmare

unacceptable

horrible

Rethugs are laughing their heads off

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Response to amborin (Reply #20)

Tue Dec 18, 2012, 01:01 AM

42. The simplest explanation is that this is what they want n/t

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Response to Fumesucker (Reply #42)

Tue Dec 18, 2012, 08:38 PM

50. yep, that's probably it eom

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Response to amborin (Reply #20)

Tue Dec 18, 2012, 08:57 PM

52. Worst. Negotiator. Ever.

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Response to sasha031 (Original post)

Mon Dec 17, 2012, 10:22 PM

21. I've had it

 

if they do anything to SS or Medicare. If they do I want all the money I've put in with interest. Then they can shut it down. I am tired of this crap.

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Response to sasha031 (Original post)

Mon Dec 17, 2012, 10:23 PM

22. Chained CPI worsens an already fraudulently rigged CPI calculation which grossly understates inflati

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Response to Faryn Balyncd (Reply #22)

Mon Dec 17, 2012, 10:32 PM

23. +1

 

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Response to Faryn Balyncd (Reply #22)

Mon Dec 17, 2012, 10:54 PM

32. SS recipients just had two years in a row of no COLA

Can you imagine how many years in a row they can claim theres no inflation with the chained CPI?

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Response to sasha031 (Original post)

Mon Dec 17, 2012, 10:39 PM

25. Totally not acceptable!

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Response to sasha031 (Original post)

Mon Dec 17, 2012, 10:39 PM

27. Speculative outrage is the best outrage...nt

Sid

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Response to SidDithers (Reply #27)

Tue Dec 18, 2012, 01:02 AM

43. It's easy to carp when you don't have any skin in the game, Sid

Why not try a little empathy for once?

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Response to sasha031 (Original post)

Mon Dec 17, 2012, 10:52 PM

31. Would anyone care to make a wager that the percentage the rate goes on up on the wealthy...

... turns out to be LESS than it would by simply going off that "fiscal cliff"?

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Response to sasha031 (Original post)

Mon Dec 17, 2012, 11:08 PM

33. NO! NO! NO!

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Response to sasha031 (Original post)

Mon Dec 17, 2012, 11:12 PM

35. There are 50

 

Democrats in the Senate. Obama can't do anything without them. Instead of complaining, you guys should be calling your grass roots organizations and lay the line down to those Democrats in the Senate about your positions. That is where the pressure needs to come from. Just let them know if they go along with this, they are through. I rather go off the Cliff then accept this crap!. And I gives a dam about their military expansionism. As long as I'm in the country, i'm safe enough and can defend it. Our Constitution doesn't say anything about nation building or supporting empires.

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Response to sasha031 (Original post)

Mon Dec 17, 2012, 11:52 PM

37. I will be very upset if this is true, because of the Social Security. There is no reason for SS to

be included in the budget negotiations. None!

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Response to sasha031 (Original post)

Tue Dec 18, 2012, 12:56 AM

39. Alas we win, but we lose.

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Response to sasha031 (Original post)

Tue Dec 18, 2012, 01:00 AM

41. elections have consequences...

 

especially when they put a DINO in the white house.

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Response to sasha031 (Original post)

Tue Dec 18, 2012, 01:05 AM

44. Tsk. Tsk. Don't be silly. Obama will never accept cuts to SS, Medicare, or other social programs.

At least, that's what some here assure us of.

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Response to Tierra_y_Libertad (Reply #44)

Tue Dec 18, 2012, 08:47 PM

51. I'll believe that when I see it.

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Response to sasha031 (Original post)

Tue Dec 18, 2012, 02:49 AM

46. I believe chained CPI cuts present recipients

and that angers me.

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Response to sasha031 (Original post)

Tue Dec 18, 2012, 05:48 AM

47. another kick

 

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Response to sasha031 (Original post)

Tue Dec 18, 2012, 07:38 AM

49. Did anyone really expect a deal without some cuts?

Cuts are inevitable. The question is how severe since cuts in govt programs could send us back into a recession.

I trust the President on this one as its a tremendously complex issue with lots of moving parts. I believe he will do what's best for the country.

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Response to sasha031 (Original post)

Tue Dec 18, 2012, 09:00 PM

53. NOT acceptable!

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