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Mon Dec 17, 2012, 04:09 PM

Gamers are the least violent people I know...

I don't know a single gamer who ever stuffed a jock into a locker.
I don't know a single gamer who ever tossed a jock out of the locker room into a hallway naked.
I have never seen two gamers come to blows over a game.
I have never seen a riot at a professional gaming event.
I have never seen a gamer run out and burn a car when his "team" won a championship.
I have never seen a fight break out at a gaming convention.


I'm sorry but all this anti-gaming stuff is really bizarre.
Where is all the anti-sports stuff? If we want to talk about violence in our society how about a sport where the idea is to hit the other guy as hard as you can? Ultimate fighting? Where are the complaints about that? How about a guy who gets shot for wearing a team jacket? How about soccer riots? I remember watching cars burn on TV after our hockey team won the Stanley Cup.

When did gamers all of a sudden become the "violent" people?

An aside.. So far this year Childs Play, the gamer charity that gives gifts to needy and sick kids has raised 3.3 million dollars. Yeah we should take their games away

Here's a link in case you want to help us out: http://childsplaycharity.org/

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Reply Gamers are the least violent people I know... (Original post)
SomethingFishy Dec 2012 OP
RomneyLies Dec 2012 #1
moxie.lu Dec 2012 #3
Warren Stupidity Dec 2012 #7
Warren DeMontague Dec 2012 #11
Matariki Dec 2012 #15
KittyWampus Dec 2012 #36
white_wolf Dec 2012 #50
Fumesucker Dec 2012 #57
valerief Dec 2012 #59
Matariki Dec 2012 #76
Matariki Dec 2012 #75
KittyWampus Dec 2012 #33
RomneyLies Dec 2012 #44
OhioChick Dec 2012 #2
Lone_Star_Dem Dec 2012 #4
randome Dec 2012 #5
cali Dec 2012 #6
SomethingFishy Dec 2012 #10
randome Dec 2012 #12
SomethingFishy Dec 2012 #14
randome Dec 2012 #20
Fumesucker Dec 2012 #24
randome Dec 2012 #26
Fumesucker Dec 2012 #31
cali Dec 2012 #93
Starry Messenger Dec 2012 #8
white_wolf Dec 2012 #17
Odin2005 Dec 2012 #84
Posteritatis Dec 2012 #21
theKed Dec 2012 #43
Odin2005 Dec 2012 #83
Starry Messenger Dec 2012 #86
Odin2005 Dec 2012 #87
99Forever Dec 2012 #9
Warren DeMontague Dec 2012 #16
99Forever Dec 2012 #34
Matariki Dec 2012 #13
reformist2 Dec 2012 #18
white_wolf Dec 2012 #19
Hugabear Dec 2012 #23
Hugabear Dec 2012 #22
white_wolf Dec 2012 #25
Hugabear Dec 2012 #38
white_wolf Dec 2012 #40
Hugabear Dec 2012 #78
justiceischeap Dec 2012 #28
Fumesucker Dec 2012 #29
Bicoastal Dec 2012 #56
galileoreloaded Dec 2012 #27
white_wolf Dec 2012 #37
galileoreloaded Dec 2012 #90
SomethingFishy Dec 2012 #91
white_wolf Dec 2012 #92
Bicoastal Dec 2012 #42
sakabatou Dec 2012 #51
Codeine Dec 2012 #65
Bicoastal Dec 2012 #67
galileoreloaded Dec 2012 #89
hifiguy Dec 2012 #30
cbrer Dec 2012 #32
Fumesucker Dec 2012 #35
white_wolf Dec 2012 #39
cbrer Dec 2012 #45
Fumesucker Dec 2012 #55
cbrer Dec 2012 #58
Fumesucker Dec 2012 #60
cbrer Dec 2012 #80
enlightenment Dec 2012 #41
Bicoastal Dec 2012 #48
OldDem2012 Dec 2012 #53
pnwmom Dec 2012 #46
Bicoastal Dec 2012 #52
Warpy Dec 2012 #47
sakabatou Dec 2012 #49
HereSince1628 Dec 2012 #54
Livluvgrow Dec 2012 #61
Fumesucker Dec 2012 #63
Codeine Dec 2012 #68
Fumesucker Dec 2012 #71
Codeine Dec 2012 #72
Codeine Dec 2012 #66
Livluvgrow Dec 2012 #69
Matariki Dec 2012 #77
Livluvgrow Dec 2012 #79
Odin2005 Dec 2012 #85
Kalidurga Dec 2012 #62
Mr.Turnip Dec 2012 #64
Livluvgrow Dec 2012 #70
Fumesucker Dec 2012 #74
Heywood J Dec 2012 #73
Odin2005 Dec 2012 #81
Livluvgrow Dec 2012 #88
ancianita Dec 2012 #95
HappyMe Dec 2012 #96
loyalkydem Dec 2012 #82
ancianita Dec 2012 #94

Response to SomethingFishy (Original post)

Mon Dec 17, 2012, 04:10 PM

1. It's desperate redirection

 

Point the finger at anything and everything except the guns.

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Response to RomneyLies (Reply #1)

Mon Dec 17, 2012, 04:16 PM

3. i agree

it definitely can't be the guns causing problems!!!

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Response to RomneyLies (Reply #1)

Mon Dec 17, 2012, 04:44 PM

7. it is so obvious and such a great tactic, around half of us fall for it every time.

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Response to RomneyLies (Reply #1)

Mon Dec 17, 2012, 05:05 PM

11. Yeah. "Oh, sure guns. Um but FIRST we must address video games, movies, fluoridation, ring around

The Collar, etc."

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Response to Warren DeMontague (Reply #11)

Mon Dec 17, 2012, 05:21 PM

15. +1

I think this is all a lot of noise from the people who don't want to put the blame where it rightfully belongs. And who want to create a lot of noise so no one else can discuss those things either.

Not just guns, semi-automatic guns, guns with over-sized magazines, etc. But the shambles our mental health system is in. Which is in shambles, thanks to a very large extent, Republican policy of stripping as much away from public programs as they can. Starting with their fucking idiot saint - Ronald Reagan - who closed down mental hospitals and flooded cities with mentally ill people unable to take care of themselves.

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Response to Matariki (Reply #15)

Mon Dec 17, 2012, 06:07 PM

36. I think this is an issue of some liberals unable to examine their own hypocritical behavior

There is a Culture of Violence. Either you reject it and and seek peace in all aspects of your life or you don't.

i think a lot of DU'ers are deeply immersed in violent noise and are afraid to admit that to themselves let alone silence it.

Point fingers at the guns and gun nuts… but you'll still have serious societal problems with violence unless it's addressed as a society and its members agree to change.

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Response to KittyWampus (Reply #36)

Mon Dec 17, 2012, 06:22 PM

50. Japan has much more violent videogames than the U.S.

Yet, they don't have near the issues with violence that we do.

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Response to KittyWampus (Reply #36)

Mon Dec 17, 2012, 06:31 PM

57. Of course there's a culture of violence and it starts at the very top

I'm just flabbergasted people don't see it, the USA has ~5% of the world's population and we spend as much as the rest of the world combined on war and preparing for war and some people wonder why we have a culture of violence.




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Response to Fumesucker (Reply #57)

Mon Dec 17, 2012, 06:39 PM

59. Right. We're the WAR culture. Our main industry is WAR and WAR product. nt

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Response to Fumesucker (Reply #57)

Mon Dec 17, 2012, 07:52 PM

76. "I'm just flabbergasted people don't see it" +10000

Indeed. There is some real evidence that we are completely mad as a nation.

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Response to KittyWampus (Reply #36)

Mon Dec 17, 2012, 07:51 PM

75. Yes but there is a difference between real violence and make believe violence

I think there is little proof that video games or violent movies cause actual real world violence.

There IS however evidence that violent crime goes up during wartime.

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Response to RomneyLies (Reply #1)

Mon Dec 17, 2012, 06:02 PM

33. Oh I can point the finger at guns and gun nuts. I can also call out the Culture of Violence

which so many here a part of and refuse to admit.

Same issue with Rape Culture.

Many otherwise wonderfully liberal DU'ers just can't wrap their minds around the concept.

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Response to KittyWampus (Reply #33)

Mon Dec 17, 2012, 06:17 PM

44. Could you define "Culture of Violence" for me? n/t

 

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Response to SomethingFishy (Original post)

Mon Dec 17, 2012, 04:12 PM

2. Most med school students/surgeons game

Surgeons With Video Game Skill Appear To Perform Better In Simulated Surgery Skills Course

In a study involving 12 surgeons and 21 surgical residents, video game skill was correlated with laparoscopic surgery skill as assessed during a simulated surgery skills course, according to a report in the February issue of Archives of Surgery, one of the JAMA/Archives journals.

James C. Rosser Jr., M.D., of Beth Israel Medical Center, New York, and colleagues asked 33 surgeons (21 residents and 12 attending physicians) about their video game--playing habits, then assessed their performance at the Rosser Top Gun Laparoscopic Skills and Suturing Program, a one-and-a-half day course that scores surgeons on time and errors during simulated surgery drills. During the study, conducted from May through August, 2002, the surgeons also played three video games for 25 minutes while the researchers assessed their gaming skills.

Of the surgeons who participated in the study, 15 reported never playing video games, nine reported playing zero to three hours per week, and nine reported playing more than three hours per week at the height of their video game playing. "Surgeons who had played video games in the past for more than three hours per week made 37 percent fewer errors , were 27 percent faster and scored 42 percent better overall than surgeons who never played video games. Current video game players made 32 percent fewer errors, were 24 percent faster and scored 26 percent better overall than their non-player colleagues," the authors write. Those in the top one-third of video gaming skill made 47 percent fewer errors, performed 39 percent faster and scored 41 percent better on the overall Top Gun score than those in the bottom one-third.

"Training curricula that include video games may help thin the technical interface between surgeons and screen-mediated applications, such as laparoscopic surgery," the authors conclude. "Video games may be a practical teaching tool to help train surgeons."

http://www.sciencedaily.com/releases/2007/02/070220012341.htm

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Response to SomethingFishy (Original post)

Mon Dec 17, 2012, 04:19 PM

4. Oh sure, they're not violent.

Try telling that to an unsuspecting bag of M&Ms!

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Response to SomethingFishy (Original post)

Mon Dec 17, 2012, 04:20 PM

5. I agree that gaming is not to blame.

However, just as anything else in society affects us, violent gaming can inflame an already disturbed individual.

Just as alcoholism is not solely determined by genetics, a predisposition to alcoholism means that other factors will have an undue influence on the individual.

For those who say gaming is to blame, I think they're wrong.

For those who say violent gaming has no affect on us at all, I say they're wrong, too.

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Response to SomethingFishy (Original post)

Mon Dec 17, 2012, 04:22 PM

6. this kind of anecdotal claim is so silly.

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Response to cali (Reply #6)

Mon Dec 17, 2012, 05:03 PM

10. So you have first hand experience with the gaming community?

You spend a lot of time with gamers? Been to a lot of conventions? Joined many gaming clubs? Know anything about what you are talking about? Anything?

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Response to SomethingFishy (Reply #10)

Mon Dec 17, 2012, 05:05 PM

12. The number of gamers you hang out with is miniscule.

Unless you 'game' 24/7. Your anecdotal evidence means next to nothing.

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Response to randome (Reply #12)

Mon Dec 17, 2012, 05:17 PM

14. LMAO.. well I'm glad you are around to tell me how many gamers I hang out with..

Yes, the last bastion of someone without a valid point "you don't know what the hell you are talking about".

A lifetime spend gaming and hanging out with gamers from all walks of life, at lan parties, gaming conventions, online, and before that, game rooms, table games, board games, tells me I may know slightly more about the gaming community than you do.

If you are so much better than all the gamers and I, and we are so violent and hateful, why don't you go to the link I posted and put your money where your mouth is. The kids need the help.

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Response to SomethingFishy (Reply #14)

Mon Dec 17, 2012, 05:28 PM

20. No one said you're violent.

If anecdotal evidence consisting of, what, maybe one hundredth of one percent of the total number of gamers in the world is intended to make some kind of point, I don't know what it is.

It's a useless data point is all I'm saying.

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Response to randome (Reply #20)

Mon Dec 17, 2012, 05:36 PM

24. Come on, have you *ever* heard of a riot at gaming convention?

Remember the riot at Happy Valley because that scumbag Paterno got dissed?

The team loses the championship the fans riot, the team wins the championship the fans riot.

I'm more of a flight sim person than a gamer but the poster has a point, there are things far more associated with violence in our culture than gaming and they're totally absent from this discussion.



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Response to Fumesucker (Reply #24)

Mon Dec 17, 2012, 05:41 PM

26. I already said gaming is not to blame for the Newtown shooting.

I also said that violent gaming can influence already disturbed individuals. Just as the availability of guns makes it easier for mass killings to occur.

I don't know what the answer is to prevent more mass killings but it doesn't help us reach a conclusion by pointing out that some miniscule number of gamers are NOT violent.

You can say that the vast majority of human beings are not violent so therefore we should relax and do nothing. But that doesn't help, either.

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Response to randome (Reply #26)

Mon Dec 17, 2012, 06:01 PM

31. Some people are going to be violent

In my experience it's far more likely to be the type A jock sort than the nerd/gamer.

The problem is the tools of violence, it's possible to kill someone with your bare hands in a fight but it's unlikely without some training and then it still takes some exertion.

With a gun a nine year old can kill a MMA champion with ease.

What I foresee happening is that we are going to turn our entire damn way of life into a prison camp in order to avoid coming to grips with the fact that guns make it frighteningly easy to kill in less than a second.

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Response to SomethingFishy (Reply #10)

Tue Dec 18, 2012, 02:59 PM

93. why yes I do. My son is an avid gamer

builds his own computers for that purpose and can enthuse about it for hours. I listen. He has more than a few friends who share his interest. He's 25 and he's been into for a few years.

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Response to SomethingFishy (Original post)

Mon Dec 17, 2012, 04:45 PM

8. I play Civ V

I've never had an urge to roll tanks into a neighboring country.

Well, almost never.

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Response to Starry Messenger (Reply #8)

Mon Dec 17, 2012, 05:25 PM

17. That's always my strategy in Civ.

I usually play as Rome and start trying to conquer. It works for a while, but I always end up losing my empire a couple of centuries in.

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Response to white_wolf (Reply #17)

Mon Dec 17, 2012, 09:27 PM

84. I prefer going for the space race victory.

But that still means taking out another civilization or 2 so I have enough cities to compete with the warmongers.

In Civ4 I loved using a Great Artist "culture bomb" to get a neighbor's city to revolt to my empire.

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Response to Starry Messenger (Reply #8)

Mon Dec 17, 2012, 05:29 PM

21. I've occasionally had that urge, but I don't play enough economics sims to afford it. (nt)

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Response to Starry Messenger (Reply #8)

Mon Dec 17, 2012, 06:17 PM

43. I did once

but I got over it.

Poor Poland...

There was also the two week period i spent dropping oddly shaped rocks off the side of my house, trying to build a wall.

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Response to Starry Messenger (Reply #8)

Mon Dec 17, 2012, 09:25 PM

83. Me, too. I raze and nuke cities.

That doesn't mean I'm going to turn into a genocidal maniac.

Oh, and MY WORDS ARE BACKED WITH THERMONUCLEAR WEAPONS!!!*

*shameless Civ2 reference

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Response to Odin2005 (Reply #83)

Mon Dec 17, 2012, 09:34 PM

86. This sub thread is awesome.

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Response to Starry Messenger (Reply #86)

Mon Dec 17, 2012, 09:36 PM

87. Heh, in Civ4 you have to watch out when you use nukes...

...because all the AI-led civilizations will automatically declare war on you if you use them!

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Response to SomethingFishy (Original post)

Mon Dec 17, 2012, 04:51 PM

9. There' a bag af Cheetos that doesn't agree...

... ooops ...

(Make that an empty plastic bag that says Cheetos on it.)






BTW, your post is spot on.




IT'S THE GUNS, STUPID.

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Response to 99Forever (Reply #9)

Mon Dec 17, 2012, 05:23 PM

16. Stole it for my sig.

Thanks.

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Response to Warren DeMontague (Reply #16)

Mon Dec 17, 2012, 06:04 PM

34. NP, I see you left me a copy.



I think it needs legs.

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Response to SomethingFishy (Original post)

Mon Dec 17, 2012, 05:15 PM

13. HEY. YOU!

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Response to SomethingFishy (Original post)

Mon Dec 17, 2012, 05:26 PM

18. So, what does correlate with violent behavior?

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Response to reformist2 (Reply #18)

Mon Dec 17, 2012, 05:27 PM

19. Not video games as various studies show.

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Response to white_wolf (Reply #19)

Mon Dec 17, 2012, 05:35 PM

23. And there are also various studies that DO show a correlation

Each side can point to studies to support their arguments.

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Response to SomethingFishy (Original post)

Mon Dec 17, 2012, 05:34 PM

22. When was the last time an athlete went on a mass-murder spree?

Many of these mass-murderers were gamers. That doesn't mean that all gamers are going to be mass-murderers, or that they are any more likely to do so. However, there is a legitimate debate as to whether violent videogames can desensitize one to violence.

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Response to Hugabear (Reply #22)

Mon Dec 17, 2012, 05:40 PM

25. Show me studies that back your statement up

because every study I've seen has shown the opposite. Rush Limbaugh is preaching this same junk on his show and it's just an attempt to divert attention from guns.

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Response to white_wolf (Reply #25)

Mon Dec 17, 2012, 06:07 PM

38. Just because you choose to ignore them doesn't mean there aren't any.

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Response to Hugabear (Reply #38)

Mon Dec 17, 2012, 06:10 PM

40. And a quick Google search will bring up just as many that say otherwise.

The date is mixed at best so you certainly don't have enough to try and pin these actions on videogames. However, I can find plenty of evidence to pin this shooting and all others on guns.

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Response to white_wolf (Reply #40)

Mon Dec 17, 2012, 08:05 PM

78. What about the effects of violent games on mentally unbalanced people?

If someone is already mentally challenged, could violent games help desensitize them and make it easier to murder in real life?

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Response to Hugabear (Reply #22)

Mon Dec 17, 2012, 05:47 PM

28. Shit, the nightly news can desensitize one to violence

movies, tv shows, music, the Internet.

People who go on mass shooting sprees may happen to play games as well, but it isn't the games that are causing the problem. They may add to the problem but it isn't the cause. Mental health issues are often a cause, easy access to guns doesn't help keep people safe that's for sure. If someone had the urge to go on a mass shooting spree, I'd rather they call up Call of Duty and shoot a shitload of video game characters than hop on the Internet and buy some guns or go to their parents closet and grab some guns and leave the house with them.

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Response to Hugabear (Reply #22)

Mon Dec 17, 2012, 05:50 PM

29. Mass murders are a small percentage of the firearms murder rate overall

Most of the shooting deaths in this country are retail rather than wholesale.

Some of us want to focus on the entire problem rather than a small fraction of it.

I suspect that some small number of people who play violent video games will indeed be effected negatively by the violence, people that weren't wrapped tight to start with. Fine, if you get the guns away from everyone then those small number won't have nearly the opportunity to kill that they would if guns remain in society.

The other great majority of retail murders will also be made much more difficult by removing guns from society.





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Response to Hugabear (Reply #22)

Mon Dec 17, 2012, 06:28 PM

56. 5 MONTHS AGO. JAMES EAGAN HOLMES WAS AN ATHLETE.

You know, the guy who shot up the movie theater in Colorado. His hometown paper says he played soccer and ran cross-country in High School.

http://www.utsandiego.com/news/2012/jul/20/quiet-unassuming-and-deadly-san-diegan-accused-mas/

So, you know, not your classic shut-in nerd who wanted to murder all the All-American jocks who tormented him.

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Response to SomethingFishy (Original post)

Mon Dec 17, 2012, 05:46 PM

27. Not violent, but definately the least able to cope with emotional turmoil and Extinction Burst

 

in my experience. Not violent, but potentially very unstable (especially the males).

Desensitization is essentially reprogramming reward centers.

Remember who made Doom.

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Response to galileoreloaded (Reply #27)

Mon Dec 17, 2012, 06:07 PM

37. Bullshit.

Calling gamers unstable is a stereotype. That's as bad as me saying everyone who likes sports is stupid and failed at school, because the majority of sports fans I've met in my experience are assholes who only knew how to throw a ball and would have failed school if they didn't get special treatment. See how stupid that sounds? Well it's just a stupid as your comment.

And what's with the Doom comment? As far as I know nothing bad happened to the creators of Doom.

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Response to white_wolf (Reply #37)

Tue Dec 18, 2012, 01:30 PM

90. Doom was a USMC simulator

 

that was designed to desensitize soldiers in dark enclosed environments. It was developed pre-MOUT, and released to the public.

You should educate yourself. For example, go find out what percentage of soldiers in WW2 that were capable of killing another vs. Vietnam vs. OIF. Up from 5% to 95%.

Or research why the .mil stopped requiring pilots licenses to operate drones, because the average 18 YO has no issue chasing the same chemical reward that his FPS gave him when he made the next level and see the images as detached as a computer simulation. Yeah, video games are harmless. Read more, friend.

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Response to galileoreloaded (Reply #90)

Tue Dec 18, 2012, 02:26 PM

91. WTF?? Doom was created from the ashes of Wolfenstein 3D

by John Carmack and John Romero. It had nothing to do with the USMC. The Marines may have licensed the engine and used it for something but it was certainly not created for them. Carmack was a programmer who created the engine and Romero designed most of the levels. Carmack went on to design rocket engines. Take your bullshit "facts" elsewhere.



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Response to galileoreloaded (Reply #90)

Tue Dec 18, 2012, 02:36 PM

92. Oh my god this hilarious.

You don't even kill people in Doom. You kill demons spawned from the depths of hell. I swear DU really is going nuts lately.

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Response to galileoreloaded (Reply #27)

Mon Dec 17, 2012, 06:16 PM

42. "Remember who made Doom." Um, iD software?

You know what's funny? You and others like are starting to sound like the very same people who stigmatized introverts and social outcasts when they were growing up--"stay away from that nerd Billy, he plays Dungeons and Dragons instead of going out for sports. Probably unstable; definitely emotionally f-ed up."

There were plenty of these at every school, but usually they grew up and did just fine. And the guy who shot up "Dark Knight Rises" was a jock in high school. There are stereotypes, and then there are facts.

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Response to Bicoastal (Reply #42)

Mon Dec 17, 2012, 06:24 PM

51. Isn;t there always some sort of frenzy that such-and-such game is "evil?"

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Response to Bicoastal (Reply #42)

Mon Dec 17, 2012, 07:11 PM

65. He's referring to John Carnack.

He got into trouble for trying to steal some computers as a kid and was evaluated by a psychologist as having no empathy for other people. Of course, now he's a dedicated philanthropist who gives to multiple charities, so I'm a bit skeptical of the validity of the original evaluation.

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Response to Codeine (Reply #65)

Mon Dec 17, 2012, 07:15 PM

67. If that's all they got on him...

...I think I can rest easy knowing that John Carmack isn't going to murder me in my bed.

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Response to Bicoastal (Reply #42)

Tue Dec 18, 2012, 01:23 PM

89. Full blown INFJ introvert here.

 

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Response to SomethingFishy (Original post)

Mon Dec 17, 2012, 05:56 PM

30. Violent video games are popular all over the developed

world. Yet mass shootings are, for the most part, a phenomenon overwhelmingly concentrated in the US. Clearly there is something much deeper going on than the mere existence of the games and the players.

And the last video game I can remember playing was Ms. Pac-Man; I've never been a part of gamer culture.

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Response to SomethingFishy (Original post)

Mon Dec 17, 2012, 06:01 PM

32. Trouble is you don't know everybody

 

You're no expert on interactions between psycho active drugs and HD interactive graphics in some people.

And the lack of connection of this thread to our collective lack of research and treatment of mental illnesses as a society, point to a colossal presupposition that does none of us any good.

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Response to cbrer (Reply #32)

Mon Dec 17, 2012, 06:06 PM

35. Japan has games so violent no other nation wants them

And yet they have a murder rate a tiny fraction of that in the land of the free and a gun killing rate you can count on your digits most years.

http://www.theatlantic.com/international/archive/2012/07/a-land-without-guns-how-japan-has-virtually-eliminated-shooting-deaths/260189/


In 2008, the U.S. had over 12 thousand firearm-related homicides. All of Japan experienced only 11, fewer than were killed at the Aurora shooting alone. And that was a big year: 2006 saw an astounding two, and when that number jumped to 22 in 2007, it became a national scandal. By comparison, also in 2008, 587 Americans were killed just by guns that had discharged accidentally.

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Response to Fumesucker (Reply #35)

Mon Dec 17, 2012, 06:09 PM

39. Yeah, Japan has a lot of games never released in the western markets.

A lot of them would be AO here which might as well be banned since no retailer will carry them.

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Response to Fumesucker (Reply #35)

Mon Dec 17, 2012, 06:18 PM

45. Japans' National Ethos

 

May or may not be useful to the conversation we NEED to have. I'm certainly in no position to judge.

But I'm not going to throw out any possibilities. I'm going to listen to people who are educated about the issues. And I'm going to place the appropriate levels of reliance on statistics that they deserve.

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Response to cbrer (Reply #45)

Mon Dec 17, 2012, 06:26 PM

55. Evidently Americans are uniquely susceptible to violent video games

Because the same ones are sold pretty much world wide and it seems only here do they cause a high murder rate.

Which kind of indicates to me that the problem is probably more something to do with American culture than it is video games.


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Response to Fumesucker (Reply #55)

Mon Dec 17, 2012, 06:35 PM

58. Right. We get that.

 

But the 2 may be related. To discount actions/reactions/interactions is a tricky business at best.

Culturally speaking, how many other nations use psycho active drugs, or advertise products to ask your doctor for, like Americans? (with side effects like laundry lists)

You are accurate to state that this violent phenomenon is manifested mostly in America.

Sincerely asking.

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Response to cbrer (Reply #58)

Mon Dec 17, 2012, 06:47 PM

60. Alcohol is the drug most commonly linked with violence

Drunk and disorderly, barroom brawl, ten feet tall and bulletproof, mean drunk, don't listen to him it's the liquor talking, the language recognizes that alcohol has violence causing propensities.

And if it were prescribed psychoactive drugs that were causing the problem you would expect the murder rate to climb as the drugs are used more and more but the opposite is happening, the murder rate is actually falling and has been for nearly two decades although it's still much higher than the rest of the developed world.

Remember "shock and awe", there were entire bars full of Americans watching that on big screen TVs and cheering every time a bomb went off, nobody complained about a "culture of violence" then and Iraq really never did anything to us other than thumb their noses sometimes.

I think the culture of violence starts at the very top and won't change until the US stops being so bellicose internationally.





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Response to Fumesucker (Reply #60)

Mon Dec 17, 2012, 08:57 PM

80. Oh right!

 

The legal recreational drug. And mom was a bit of a barfly, yes?

I think (with no real evidence) that your cultural observation is spot on.

From the way we march in to a country and just take over, giving the locals a choice between cash or bullets, to vulture capitalism. Ingrained, entrenched, and taught from an impressionable age. American values and mores.

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Response to SomethingFishy (Original post)

Mon Dec 17, 2012, 06:11 PM

41. Well, quite a few seem particularly unhinged -

http://www.newstatesman.com/helen-lewis/2012/12/anita-sarkeesian-and-gamification-misogyny
http://www.newstatesman.com/blogs/internet/2012/07/what-online-harassment-looks
http://www.dailydot.com/culture/anita-sarkeesian-ted-talk-misogynist-comments/


Yes, I know - they didn't actually physically hurt anyone in real life, but to suggest that that they are not really capable of violence - which is what you are attempting to do - is ridiculous. This woman was attacked in every way BUT physically. Why? Because she wanted to discuss the objectification of women in video games.

The level of abuse is not just illogical - it is irrational and bordering on pathological. It wasn't just one gamer - it was many, so wrapped up in their fantasy worlds that they believed it appropriate to threaten someone with rape, torture, and murder; to attempt to ruin her reputation; to destroy her on as many levels as they could without actually leaving their computers.

Healthy individuals do not react in this fashion. They do not entertain fantasies of this kind. They do not completely freak out because someone criticizes their hobby.

Violent video games are not part and parcel responsible for people committing acts of violence, but it is ridiculous to suggest that they cannot play a role in desensitizing people toward violence - and possibly pushing an already unstable individual to the point where they see merit in acting out what they are playing on their screens.

The people who attacked Anita Sarkeesian are not particularly stable individuals - stable people don't do what these people did. They are most certainly gamers, though.

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Response to enlightenment (Reply #41)

Mon Dec 17, 2012, 06:21 PM

48. But you're STILL judging many by the actions of a few.

I thought liberals didn't do that sort of labeling.

That's your evidence that gamers are unstable people? I'd hate to see what you think of sports fans.

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Response to enlightenment (Reply #41)

Mon Dec 17, 2012, 06:24 PM

53. "Quite a few"? Out of how many total gamers? Any stats to back up your claim? nt.

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Response to SomethingFishy (Original post)

Mon Dec 17, 2012, 06:20 PM

46. The military uses videos like this to train soldiers.

So why couldn't these videos have a negative effect on certain susceptible people?

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Response to pnwmom (Reply #46)

Mon Dec 17, 2012, 06:24 PM

52. ANYTHING can have a negative effect on "certain susceptible people."

A work of fiction by JD Salinger made one certain susceptible person shoot John Lennon.

Should we start banning books?

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Response to SomethingFishy (Original post)

Mon Dec 17, 2012, 06:20 PM

47. Most socially maladjusted nerds are totally nonviolent

I know because those are my people.

It doesn't matter if they listen to Marilyn Manson or play violent shoot em up video games or anything else. Only a tiny fraction of a percent of people in any group turn violent. Blaming one group or another is simply counterproductive.

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Response to SomethingFishy (Original post)

Mon Dec 17, 2012, 06:21 PM

49. They only thing that's violent about them...

is what they do to their controllers, tv's and console. Other than that, nothing.

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Response to SomethingFishy (Original post)

Mon Dec 17, 2012, 06:25 PM

54. Funny thing, I believe gamers and the mentally ill are about equally violent.

Because the risk of being violent in a year is about the same, within a few percent, for the pool of mentally ill and the pool of the general populatoin. .

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Response to SomethingFishy (Original post)

Mon Dec 17, 2012, 06:47 PM

61. I am amazed

at how many people don't find problems with killing simulators. I also am amazed at the level of selfishness some are exhibiting. Look at how many of you automatically are saying I dont do this it doesn't do that to me. Well maybe not you but maybe a psychopath might have a different reaction to killing simulators, but we know since it doesn't happen to you it cant possibly happen to others.

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Response to Livluvgrow (Reply #61)

Mon Dec 17, 2012, 06:59 PM

63. When we were kids we didn't use simulators, we used BB guns on each other

My brother still has a BB in his earlobe that I put there fifty years ago, the one in my leg dissolved I think.

And yet we are both the type that will pick up a spider and put it outside rather than squash it, I've waded into a swimming pool to rescue a trapped snake that was swimming around while people around me thought I was nuts, we both will stop and move turtles out of the road if we see them before they are killed.

John Lennon's killer was obsessed with Catcher in the Rye, there's no telling what will set some people off on a path of violence.





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Response to Fumesucker (Reply #63)

Mon Dec 17, 2012, 07:18 PM

68. Fumesucker, what is your avatar picture?

I know I've seen it a million times, but I can't put my finger on it! Driving me bananas.

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Response to Codeine (Reply #68)

Mon Dec 17, 2012, 07:28 PM

71. Google Kelly Freas n/t

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Response to Fumesucker (Reply #71)

Mon Dec 17, 2012, 07:35 PM

72. Ahah! Thank you! nt

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Response to Livluvgrow (Reply #61)

Mon Dec 17, 2012, 07:13 PM

66. "Killing simulators". You're a silly one. nt

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Response to Codeine (Reply #66)

Mon Dec 17, 2012, 07:23 PM

69. what is the difference

flight simulators, Madden a football simulator, or killing simulators that is what they are. Spin it how you want that is what they are.

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Response to Livluvgrow (Reply #61)

Mon Dec 17, 2012, 07:55 PM

77. I think it's convenient to turn a VERY NECESSARY conversation about gun control

to a bullshit one about video games.

I think there are people who very much want to divert the conversation away from where it needs to be.

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Response to Matariki (Reply #77)

Mon Dec 17, 2012, 08:16 PM

79. Sorry

I dont think so. Violent culture needs to be put under a microscope and change needs to be made across the board. Banning obviously not but sensible solutions can be found whether it is guns, or violence in multimedia. almost 9000 shooting deaths with 90,000 being shot each year I do believe warrants some kind of a reaction. Now who is right about all of this? Me, you, who

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Response to Livluvgrow (Reply #61)

Mon Dec 17, 2012, 09:33 PM

85. Right, because old folks never played Cowboys and Indians when they were kids.

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Response to SomethingFishy (Original post)

Mon Dec 17, 2012, 06:53 PM

62. I am not a gamer

but I do like computer games, puzzles mostly like Tetris. However, I too know quite a few gamers and I haven't met a violent one yet. I haven't even had a hint of foreboding around any of them either. Talking about gamers at this point is ridiculous. People seem to forget that humans have been violent for 10's of thousands of years. It started even before the invention of TV if you can believe that.

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Response to SomethingFishy (Original post)

Mon Dec 17, 2012, 07:10 PM

64. Im a gamer, And I am just about the least likely person to get into any sort of violence.

I do all I can to avoid violent confrontation and I have a grasp of basic goddamn morality. And yes guys I play violent video games, REALLY violent video games, It does't affect my psyche because I like 99% of the population can tell reality from fantasy.

And for the record yes Games can influence people to do crazy things, EVERYTHING CAN. Should we ban Music and Sports too?

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Response to Mr.Turnip (Reply #64)

Mon Dec 17, 2012, 07:26 PM

70. Should we ban it

no but should we responsibly clean it up a bit maybe. Maybe the radio host from Rwanda should have just been left to spew his shit because you know some things just influence people to do crazy things and ya know we should just let it happen

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Response to Livluvgrow (Reply #70)

Mon Dec 17, 2012, 07:43 PM

74. John Lennon's killer was obsessed with Catcher in the Rye, we should clean that up too

The point being that you never know what's going to set someone off.

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Response to SomethingFishy (Original post)

Mon Dec 17, 2012, 07:41 PM

73. In places like South Korea,

gaming is practically a religion. I don't recall hearing of mass shootings every few weeks in Seoul.

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Response to SomethingFishy (Original post)

Mon Dec 17, 2012, 09:21 PM

81. Every person I know who is anti-video games is a Baby Boomer.

It seems like video games are for Boomers what rock music was to the Greatest Generation. Like throughout history, the older generation gets hysterical about new forms of entertainment corrupting the youth.

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Response to Odin2005 (Reply #81)

Mon Dec 17, 2012, 10:16 PM

88. I am not a boomer

40 and love video games started with pong and have had all major platforms since. Enjoyed asteroids, pacman, space invaders, defender, smurfs, qbert, NBA jams, techmo bowl, madden, NBA in many versions, and MLB in many versions. I love playing but have no need for games that feed a culture of killing, and dont think it is wrong to expect better of the people in this country. Bans on games aren't what I hope for not remotely close but think their is nothing wrong with examining the issue to see if we can do better. Clearly though from peoples reactions it is going to be a fruitless hope. Kill on.

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Response to Odin2005 (Reply #81)

Tue Dec 18, 2012, 03:21 PM

95. I'm a pro-video game Boomer. In fact, I suggest that a video game curriculum be in schools.

Such games teach focus, extended concentration and the building of cause/effect thinking, patience, trial and error risk taking, imagination, goal-oriented planning and strategic thinking. Not to mention the group cooperation with other players that builds social skills and articulation. Not to mention reading! There's SO much that video games teach that have nothing to do with fomenting any violent notions at all. If anything, video games' violence tend toward having a cathartic effect on players of all ages.

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Response to Odin2005 (Reply #81)

Tue Dec 18, 2012, 03:25 PM

96. Good grief!



I have bought my sons plenty of video games. I'm not against them, I don't think they are corrupting the 'youth'.
Throughout history, the youth think that everyone is against them and nobody understands them...and then they grow up.

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Response to SomethingFishy (Original post)

Mon Dec 17, 2012, 09:25 PM

82. Here is a gamer and I don't like guns

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Response to SomethingFishy (Original post)

Tue Dec 18, 2012, 03:17 PM

94. Representations of violence aren't violence; a lived culture of gun violence is closer to the cause.

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