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Mon Dec 17, 2012, 03:50 PM

I have owned firearms all of my life:

And I certainly do not pretend to know the way to solve our gun problem...yes, OUR gun problem.

But I do know a couple of things about guns (from experience).

(1) An AR-15 is a combat weapon. You don't hunt deer with one, it is designed to engage an enemy in combat.

(2) No civilian needs a 30-round magazine for anything, much less hunting, on any gun, rifle or pistol.

(3) If you think that an AR-15 or a Glock or similar weaponry is better for home protection than a 12-gauge shotgun, your wrong for many reasons that I won't take the time or space to post.

(4) Most people would be ineffective with a weapon under emergency circumstances involving stress, low light conditions, noise, etc., without proper training and regular practice, and most people have neither...

(5) Not everyone needs a gun. Many people who do own them legally, shouldn't. That worn out premise that conceal/carry will stop these tragedies is simply stupid, again, for many reasons.

(6) If you think that you need these types of weapons to defend yourself against our own government, well, then, sorry, but you're just fuckin' crazy.

We need to address this problem. If we don't, we can expect more of the same.

12 replies, 950 views

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Arrow 12 replies Author Time Post
Reply I have owned firearms all of my life: (Original post)
rvt1000rr Dec 2012 OP
sadbear Dec 2012 #1
yellerpup Dec 2012 #2
we can do it Dec 2012 #3
RegieRocker Dec 2012 #4
HERVEPA Dec 2012 #6
progressoid Dec 2012 #8
quiche Dec 2012 #5
rvt1000rr Dec 2012 #9
Spider Jerusalem Dec 2012 #7
ProgressiveProfessor Dec 2012 #10
rvt1000rr Dec 2012 #11
ProgressiveProfessor Dec 2012 #12

Response to rvt1000rr (Original post)

Mon Dec 17, 2012, 03:52 PM

1. Apparently, for some people, they're just too damn fun to give up.

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Response to rvt1000rr (Original post)

Mon Dec 17, 2012, 03:52 PM

2. Thanks for your sanity and clarity.

I agree with every point.

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Response to rvt1000rr (Original post)

Mon Dec 17, 2012, 03:54 PM

3. Thank you for a considerate common sense post.

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Response to rvt1000rr (Original post)

Mon Dec 17, 2012, 03:58 PM

4. Don't believe you one least bit.

 

I call it as I read it.

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Response to RegieRocker (Reply #4)

Mon Dec 17, 2012, 04:01 PM

6. What don't you believe?

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Response to RegieRocker (Reply #4)

Mon Dec 17, 2012, 04:42 PM

8. OP sounds like something my Dad would say.

Minus the fucking part.

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Response to rvt1000rr (Original post)

Mon Dec 17, 2012, 03:59 PM

5. I applaud your post

I hope more gun-owners like you stand up. And that you stand-up to the NRA. You do realize that if you belong to NRA, your dues will probably be used to lobby against any gun control?

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Response to quiche (Reply #5)

Mon Dec 17, 2012, 05:33 PM

9. I never belonged to the NRA.

My take was that they were always a lobbying group out to take money through fear and ignorance of their membership.

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Response to rvt1000rr (Original post)

Mon Dec 17, 2012, 04:05 PM

7. Good luck trying to be reasonable

I made some of the same points--the response I got to "you want a shotgun for home defence, not a pistol" was "who are you to tell me what I need?" and "law enforcement officers defend themselves with handguns indoors regularly"

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Response to rvt1000rr (Original post)

Mon Dec 17, 2012, 09:48 PM

10. And many who have owned dictionaries for years still cannot spell

An AR-15 is a combat weapon. You don't hunt deer with one, it is designed to engage an enemy in combat.

AR format weapons have been available in hunting calibers for 30 years. Semi automatic rifles have been used in hunting for 75 years

If you think that an AR-15 or a Glock or similar weaponry is better for home protection than a 12-gauge shotgun, your wrong for many reasons that I won't take the time or space to post.

Just about every professional disagrees with you for many good reasons.

Most people would be ineffective with a weapon under emergency circumstances involving stress, low light conditions, noise, etc., without proper training and regular practice, and most people have neither...

Training is always a good thing. Extensive training is not required for proper and effective use

Not everyone needs a gun. Many people who do own them legally, shouldn't. That worn out premise that conceal/carry will stop these tragedies is simply stupid, again, for many reasons.

Need is not a requirement.


If you think that you need these types of weapons to defend yourself against our own government, well, then, sorry, but you're just fuckin' crazy.

I agree with you on this

Here are some better suggestions: http://www.democraticunderground.com/10022008389

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Response to ProgressiveProfessor (Reply #10)

Mon Dec 17, 2012, 11:05 PM

11. A thoughtful reply, a little snarky perhaps, but good.

The AR Series from it's inception was designed as a combat weapon, there is not much to dispute about that. Yes, over the years, it has been re-chambered to handle various rounds and calibers, some good for hunting, but the most common (civilian) chambering is for the .223 Remington, which is inferior to, say, the Win. 30-30 when stalking the willy white-tail in heavily timbered terrain, IMHO.

I don't know what professionals you are citing, but people that I know, who have direct intimate knowledge on the subject, maintain that a buckshot (not bird shot) round in a 12 gauge is simply horrendously lethal at in-door or in-house ranges with little chance of collateral injury from wall penetration. For me, anyway, that would be my choice, if needed.

And yes, many types of non-military auto-loaders have been around for decades. But, I still say no one needs a 30 round mag. Not unless you plan on killing lots of people.

We disagree on the training. How many rounds do you fire in a month? Or a year? At what range and at what targets? More than I, perhaps, but practice, especially tactical practice is invaluable if you do feel threatened.

Granted, need is not a requirement. Happily, I have never felt the "need" to have a carry-weapon for protection. I have always been a target shooter, so no real need there. I was attempting to address the apologists who believe that everyone should be armed at all times. I know a few folks ("rude toters"... I might have to steal that phrase if you don't mind) who, though not mentally ill, legally carry a weapon that they probably should not have. Again, my humble opinion.

Oh, and by the way, your linked post was excellent.

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Response to rvt1000rr (Reply #11)

Tue Dec 18, 2012, 12:06 AM

12. Yes it was snarky...my tolerance for some of the nonsense being posted is wearing thin

and my inner snark comes out.

The AR Series from it's inception was designed as a combat weapon, there is not much to dispute about that. Yes, over the years, it has been re-chambered to handle various rounds and calibers, some good for hunting, but the most common (civilian) chambering is for the .223 Remington, which is inferior to, say, the Win. 30-30 when stalking the willy white-tail in heavily timbered terrain, IMHO.
The .223 is a decent varmint round. Something in 30 caliber is better for most game animals. The AR and its evolution is a classic example of disruptive technology. Less costly and more effective than its predecessors. It is the most popular rifle sold in the country today. It is in many ways the Ipad of civilian rifles in the US. The ability to change calibers and modify it to suit is unparalleled in the market today. Gun lego is an apt description.

I don't know what professionals you are citing, but people that I know, who have direct intimate knowledge on the subject, maintain that a buckshot (not bird shot) round in a 12 gauge is simply horrendously lethal at in-door or in-house ranges with little chance of collateral injury from wall penetration. For me, anyway, that would be my choice, if needed.
Buckshot goes right through interior walls...00 is the equivalent of a 38 caliber round. It also does not spread. For short range indoor use, birdshot is the better answer and #4 shot (not #4 buck) is about the best all around. Shot guns take longer to load, are harder to maneuver, and often recoil more than many can handle. The self defense pros, recommend semi auto handguns.

And yes, many types of non-military auto-loaders have been around for decades. But, I still say no one needs a 30 round mag. Not unless you plan on killing lots of people.
Most states limit hunting magazine to 5 rounds, regardless of action. Seems good to me.

We disagree on the training. How many rounds do you fire in a month? Or a year? At what range and at what targets? More than I, perhaps, but practice, especially tactical practice is invaluable if you do feel threatened.
I am a firearms instructor on the weekends. I have a range on my property. I strongly endorse regular practice and have huge ammo bills.

Granted, need is not a requirement. Happily, I have never felt the "need" to have a carry-weapon for protection. I have always been a target shooter, so no real need there. I was attempting to address the apologists who believe that everyone should be armed at all times. I know a few folks ("rude toters"... I might have to steal that phrase if you don't mind) who, though not mentally ill, legally carry a weapon that they probably should not have. Again, my humble opinion.
I carry when I ride my motorcycle, which is most days. I live in the raw SoCal desert. Going down means I may be there a while and get some unwanted visitors. I carry a revolver with a mix of rounds. I don't normally concealed carry unless I am on my bike. When out on the property I open carry and have a rifle on the ATV. My neighborhood kitties are cougars. There are also coyotes and rattlesnakes. However the view and serenity is the best in the world. It is an unusual situation.

I see the goobers as the price we pay to have those that need to carry be allowed to. The law has to be clear and impartial. IME the goobers can be counted on in the long run to do something stupid and get their papers revoked though it generally does not involve killing someone.


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