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Mon Dec 17, 2012, 02:53 PM

“If you're out walking, we're going to stop you, ask why you're out walking, check for your ID,”

SWAT cops to ask for IDs from everyone in Arkansas town

In order to bring crime down, residents of Paragould may soon have to endure police officers brandishing semi-automatic assault riddles on the regular. What’s more, Stovall says, is he intends to have the cops collecting identification from everyone and anyone in an attempt to discourage criminal activity.

"This fear is what's given us the reason to do this. Once I have stats and people saying they're scared, we can do this," Stovall said, according to the Paragould Daily Press. "It allows us to do what we're fixing to do."

“We will be asking for picture identification. We will be ascertaining where the subject lives and what they are doing in the area. We will be keeping a record of those we contact.”

More here, including a pic of a SWAT tank...uhhh...car?
http://rt.com/usa/news/swat-guns-paragould-arkansas-224/



57 replies, 3428 views

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Reply “If you're out walking, we're going to stop you, ask why you're out walking, check for your ID,” (Original post)
dixiegrrrrl Dec 2012 OP
marybourg Dec 2012 #1
msongs Dec 2012 #2
AlexSatan Dec 2012 #26
Skidmore Dec 2012 #3
dixiegrrrrl Dec 2012 #9
Earth_First Dec 2012 #4
reformist2 Dec 2012 #5
Fumesucker Dec 2012 #7
Bake Dec 2012 #13
liberal N proud Dec 2012 #6
Eric the Reddish Dec 2012 #53
Newsjock Dec 2012 #8
dixiegrrrrl Dec 2012 #11
Liberal_in_LA Dec 2012 #12
dixiegrrrrl Dec 2012 #22
ProgressiveProfessor Dec 2012 #47
MineralMan Dec 2012 #10
FarCenter Dec 2012 #31
dixiegrrrrl Dec 2012 #50
dixiegrrrrl Dec 2012 #49
MineralMan Dec 2012 #55
jody Dec 2012 #14
X_Digger Dec 2012 #15
dixiegrrrrl Dec 2012 #23
X_Digger Dec 2012 #24
FarCenter Dec 2012 #30
X_Digger Dec 2012 #32
FarCenter Dec 2012 #34
X_Digger Dec 2012 #35
FarCenter Dec 2012 #37
X_Digger Dec 2012 #40
ohheckyeah Dec 2012 #16
SoCalDem Dec 2012 #17
HereSince1628 Dec 2012 #18
cali Dec 2012 #19
Newsjock Dec 2012 #21
Avalux Dec 2012 #20
leftyohiolib Dec 2012 #25
a geek named Bob Dec 2012 #27
Glassunion Dec 2012 #28
dixiegrrrrl Dec 2012 #36
sakabatou Dec 2012 #42
surrealAmerican Dec 2012 #39
Glassunion Dec 2012 #46
slackmaster Dec 2012 #29
MissMarple Dec 2012 #33
onethatcares Dec 2012 #38
progree Dec 2012 #44
sakabatou Dec 2012 #41
0rganism Dec 2012 #48
Music Man Dec 2012 #43
Logical Dec 2012 #45
upaloopa Dec 2012 #51
BigDemVoter Dec 2012 #52
rustydog Dec 2012 #54
Smilo Dec 2012 #56
WinkyDink Dec 2012 #57

Response to dixiegrrrrl (Original post)

Mon Dec 17, 2012, 02:55 PM

1. I don't think so.

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Response to dixiegrrrrl (Original post)

Mon Dec 17, 2012, 02:56 PM

2. brave american gun owners will exercise their right to take down this tyranny, right??? yeah, right

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Response to msongs (Reply #2)

Mon Dec 17, 2012, 04:22 PM

26. Probably not

 

Obviously there is the court system to go through first.

By the time that happens, the cops will recognize all of the locals who should be there and the bad elements will have decided to avoid the area. So there will not be much of a group left who cares enough to push it.

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Response to dixiegrrrrl (Original post)

Mon Dec 17, 2012, 02:56 PM

3. How the hell does a town of that size justify a paramilitary arrangement

like that? Martial law? Who declared martial law and why?

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Response to Skidmore (Reply #3)

Mon Dec 17, 2012, 03:13 PM

9. Did you read the article?

the answers are in there.

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Response to dixiegrrrrl (Original post)

Mon Dec 17, 2012, 02:56 PM

4. Ummmm, no... n/t

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Response to dixiegrrrrl (Original post)

Mon Dec 17, 2012, 02:59 PM

5. Oddly enough, it's the gun nuts that are advocating a police state more than anyone.

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Response to reformist2 (Reply #5)

Mon Dec 17, 2012, 03:02 PM

7. Truer words were never written n/t

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Response to reformist2 (Reply #5)

Mon Dec 17, 2012, 03:24 PM

13. No it's not.

That's bullshit. Especially since there are a lot of good Dem "gun nuts" here on DU. If you don't believe it, just take a look at GD. Anybody who doesn't call for banning all guns MUST be a gun nut.

Bake

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Response to dixiegrrrrl (Original post)

Mon Dec 17, 2012, 03:00 PM

6. Welcome to Amerika

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Response to liberal N proud (Reply #6)

Tue Dec 18, 2012, 01:01 PM

53. Paragould is Paranoid

 

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Response to dixiegrrrrl (Original post)

Mon Dec 17, 2012, 03:06 PM

8. Link to local story

http://www.paragoulddailypress.com/articles/2012/12/15/top_story/doc50cbbb312e241511092932.txt

... Stovall said he did not consult an attorney before announcing his plans to combat crime. He even remained undaunted when comparing his proposed tactics with martial law, explaining that "I don't know that there's ever been a difference" between his proposals and martial law.

Stovall said task force members would not even be required to be looking for a specific suspect before stopping citizens on the street.

"Anyone that's out walking, because of the crime and the fear factor, (could be stopped)," he said.

Should an individual not produce identification, Stovall said his officers would not back down. Individuals who do not produce identification when asked could be charged with obstructing a governmental operation, according to Stovall.

... On Friday, however, Gaskill retreated from the severity of the plan he and Stovall offered to citizens at the town hall.

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Response to Newsjock (Reply #8)

Mon Dec 17, 2012, 03:14 PM

11. If he gets away with this, you KNOW it will spread

to every power hungry no neck mayor in the country.

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Response to Newsjock (Reply #8)

Mon Dec 17, 2012, 03:17 PM

12. We are prepared to throw your hind-end in jail, OK? We're not going to take a lot of flack."

"Will there be people who buck us? There may be. But we have a right to be doing what we're doing. We have a zero-tolerance. We are prepared to throw your hind-end in jail, OK? We're not going to take a lot of flack."

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Response to Liberal_in_LA (Reply #12)

Mon Dec 17, 2012, 04:14 PM

22. Channeling George C Scott, evidently.

Standing up there in front of that huge American Flag, tossing machismo around with wild abandon.

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Response to Liberal_in_LA (Reply #12)

Mon Dec 17, 2012, 08:45 PM

47. This will be great on Youtube but it will bankrupt the county

This one will pulled back in line soon enough.

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Response to dixiegrrrrl (Original post)

Mon Dec 17, 2012, 03:13 PM

10. Paragould, AR. Population about 20,000.

This won't last long. They can't legally do that.

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Response to MineralMan (Reply #10)

Mon Dec 17, 2012, 04:42 PM

31. Demographics of Paragould

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Paragould,_Arkansas#Demographics

The crime rate went up substantially between 2003 and 2005. Either something happened or they weren't reporting truthfully before.

http://www.city-data.com/crime/crime-Paragould-Arkansas.html

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Response to FarCenter (Reply #31)

Tue Dec 18, 2012, 12:52 PM

50. Something interesting about those demographicsm, which only go to 2010.

I notice the place has about a quarter of the pop. in the age group of 25-40...
and that most of the "crime wave" is in the area of burglary, theft, etc. which indicates drugs might be a problem.

Even tho the census demographics stop at 2010, it also looks like the overall rates were decreasing from 2007.

Also of note is that the pop. is mostly white, which rules out a race factor.

I have a feeling this may be the start of distrubing trend, and looks like a solution in search of a problem.

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Response to MineralMan (Reply #10)

Tue Dec 18, 2012, 12:39 PM

49. Just announcing they WILL do it may have enough of a chilling effect.

In our little town's ( pop. 6,000) weekly paper ( owned by a big wig Repub, natch) awhile back was a headline:

"Citizens complain of people walking around at night "

reading the article, it was clear that one or 2 groups of "youths" had suddenly developed a habit of" walking around "
in a lower income mixed race neighborhood, after dark.
race was not mentioned.
age was guessed at, by the complaining "citizens" as being somewhere between 18 and early 20's.
Sheriff's office vowed to investigate and "put a stop" to this nefarious practice. In big type. On the front page.

Have'nt heard of any "problems" since.

What non-southerners need to know is that in these small towns, people do not "walk aorund" at night.
Usually houses are lights out by 10 pm, everybody indoors, most are asleep.
So a group of older "youths" wandering around an entire area after dark is looked at with much suspicion.
Esp. if they are not white.

Mayberry is a strange place at times.






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Response to dixiegrrrrl (Reply #49)

Tue Dec 18, 2012, 01:04 PM

55. That's true in small towns everywhere.

And people call the cops. That's fine. What that small city is doing, though, is something entirely different. It's frightening, and illegal.

I grew up in a town of 6000 in California. You're right, it was lights out early there, too. Anyone out after 10 PM was suspicious.

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Response to dixiegrrrrl (Original post)

Mon Dec 17, 2012, 03:31 PM

14. "asking for picture identification" but that's not required to vote. nt

 

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Response to dixiegrrrrl (Original post)

Mon Dec 17, 2012, 03:32 PM

15. Why all the outrage when Bloomberg does something similar in NYC with 'stop and frisk'?!?

Why do threads on the award-winning piece in the Village Voice about the Schoolcraft Tapes drop like stones, but *this* gets outrage?

http://www.democraticunderground.com/1002449690

eta: Grammar

eta2: To be clear, I'm not defending this AR town's actions, I'm just as pissed at this as I am at Bloomberg in NYC.

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Response to X_Digger (Reply #15)

Mon Dec 17, 2012, 04:15 PM

23. NY Village Voice story seemed to be seen by a lot of people

I remember the threads about it.

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Response to dixiegrrrrl (Reply #23)

Mon Dec 17, 2012, 04:18 PM

24. I'll admit to posting it a few times, hehe.. n/t



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Response to X_Digger (Reply #15)

Mon Dec 17, 2012, 04:37 PM

30. On McLaughlin Group Mort Zuckerman was crediting "stop and frisk" with getting guns off the street

He was very supportive of gun control, of Bloomberg, and of the stop and frisk policing.

&list=UUHUco2KL1kMdNjjDyORHiFw&index=1

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Response to FarCenter (Reply #30)

Mon Dec 17, 2012, 04:45 PM

32. Of course he was.. but look at the *actual* stats..

http://www.nyclu.org/content/stop-and-frisk-data

In 2011, New Yorkers were stopped by the police 685,724 times.
605,328 were totally innocent (88 percent).
350,743 were black (53 percent).
223,740 were Latino (34 percent).
61,805 were white (9 percent).
341,581 were aged 14-24 (51 percent).


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Response to X_Digger (Reply #32)

Mon Dec 17, 2012, 04:55 PM

34. That will not be the case in Paragould -- see demographics link above.

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Response to FarCenter (Reply #34)

Mon Dec 17, 2012, 04:58 PM

35. Why even bother with the fourth amendment?

If it saves just one child..



Sorry, infringements on our basic rights piss me the hell off.

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Response to X_Digger (Reply #35)

Mon Dec 17, 2012, 05:53 PM

37. It appears to be legal for the police to ask someone in public for identification

The person does not have to give the police identification.

The police can proceed to stop and frisk if they have some reason.

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Response to FarCenter (Reply #37)

Mon Dec 17, 2012, 06:13 PM

40. We can thank the SCOTUS for that violation of the 4th (ID)

"Some reason" ends up being, "because my numbers need a bump" for the NYPD.

http://www.villagevoice.com/2012-03-07/news/the-nypd-tapes-confirmed/

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Response to dixiegrrrrl (Original post)

Mon Dec 17, 2012, 03:35 PM

16. The people in this country

have lost their fucking minds.

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Response to dixiegrrrrl (Original post)

Mon Dec 17, 2012, 03:37 PM

17. Paragould...or Paranoid, AR

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Response to dixiegrrrrl (Original post)

Mon Dec 17, 2012, 03:44 PM

18. Germany tried that, twice. It didn't work either time

Maybe his trooper in Arkansas can do better than the Stasi.

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Response to dixiegrrrrl (Original post)

Mon Dec 17, 2012, 03:51 PM

19. uh, RT News. Really?

Hardly a reliable source.

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Response to cali (Reply #19)

Mon Dec 17, 2012, 03:56 PM

21. Look upthread for a local source

It's in the local paper, and the AP picked it up as well.

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Response to dixiegrrrrl (Original post)

Mon Dec 17, 2012, 03:52 PM

20. Umm....this is not Nazi Germany. WTF?

There is nothing to fear but fear itself....

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Response to dixiegrrrrl (Original post)

Mon Dec 17, 2012, 04:18 PM

25. in a free society safety's gamble but how come securing safety requires a loss of rights.

people dont want strangers to come along and shoot them but how do you know who's gonna shoot you unless you start checking people (btw im not for this) but then you give up more of your right to not be hasseled by the man? is curfew next?

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Response to dixiegrrrrl (Original post)

Mon Dec 17, 2012, 04:24 PM

27. depending on my mood...

 

I'd either have a friendly chat with the officers, or sue the town into bankruptcy for false arrest and wrongful prosecution.

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Response to dixiegrrrrl (Original post)

Mon Dec 17, 2012, 04:25 PM

28. WTF is a semi-automatic assault "riddle"

Dixiegrrrrl - I know that's not your type-o, it's in the article.

Is that when someone walks up to you, asks: "What building has the most stories?" and before you can answer they ask: "What is broken every time its spoken?" and before you can answer they ask: "What gets wetter when it dries?" etc...

Or is it when someone has "Take away the whole and some still remains. What is it?" written on a stick that they hit you with?

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Response to Glassunion (Reply #28)

Mon Dec 17, 2012, 05:12 PM

36. Awww geez....now we gotta ban ..."riddles" !!!!

Because, you know how evil Tom riddle was.

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Response to dixiegrrrrl (Reply #36)

Mon Dec 17, 2012, 06:25 PM

42. He wasn't that bad... until he went to Hogwarts

I think.

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Response to Glassunion (Reply #28)

Mon Dec 17, 2012, 06:11 PM

39. "What walks on four legs in the morning ...

... two at mid day, and fills you full of holes in the evening?"

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Response to surrealAmerican (Reply #39)

Mon Dec 17, 2012, 07:11 PM

46. A drunk donut baker.

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Response to dixiegrrrrl (Original post)

Mon Dec 17, 2012, 04:26 PM

29. I've never heard of a semi-automatic assault riddle.

 

Can I get one wrapped up in a real-tree camouflage mystery, and barrel-shrouded in an enigma?

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Response to dixiegrrrrl (Original post)

Mon Dec 17, 2012, 04:52 PM

33. Paragould is not too far from where we lived in Missouri. I think there is something in the water.

A lot of people I used to know in high school are real right wing nutty. When Obama won I bet a lot of folks went for the bomb shelters and storm cellars.

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Response to dixiegrrrrl (Original post)

Mon Dec 17, 2012, 06:03 PM

38. I didn't notice any actual numbers in the article.

just some bullshit about crime has increased by 4x in certain areas and in others maybe by 3x.

Anyone got numbers of what kind of crime? Hell, letting your dog crap on the sidewalk and not picking it up is a crime.

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Response to onethatcares (Reply #38)

Mon Dec 17, 2012, 06:31 PM

44. "They may not be doing anything but walking their dog, but they're going to have to prove it"

"They may not be doing anything but walking their dog," added Mayor Gaskill, "but they're going to have to prove it."

(Speaking of dogs. The above quote is in the article in the OP's link -- http://rt.com/usa/news/swat-guns-paragould-arkansas-224/

couldn't resist).

I jog 3 X a week.... I wonder how many times I would be stopped.... And how do I prove that I'm "just jogging" and not running away from a crime scene?

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Response to dixiegrrrrl (Original post)

Mon Dec 17, 2012, 06:17 PM

41. "[P]olice officers brandishing semi-automatic assault riddles..."

So they're going to joke us to death?

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Response to sakabatou (Reply #41)

Mon Dec 17, 2012, 08:48 PM

48. "Halt! what do you get when you cross a chicken with a checkerboard?"

"And you'd better answer correctly or we're hauling your ass in."

Clearly this man has taken over Arkansas:

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Response to dixiegrrrrl (Original post)

Mon Dec 17, 2012, 06:29 PM

43. This is so much like Ray Bradbury's story "The Pedestrian"

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Response to dixiegrrrrl (Original post)

Mon Dec 17, 2012, 06:39 PM

45. I hope the ACUL jusms all over this shit! High crime rate is not probable cause. I might have to....

make a visit to that fucking town.

First off, no one needs to carry ID.

Idiots!

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Response to dixiegrrrrl (Original post)

Tue Dec 18, 2012, 12:56 PM

51. Why do we call cop's AR-15s semi-automatic

Assault weapons but can't talk about a civilian assault weapons ban because they really aren't assault weapons?

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Response to dixiegrrrrl (Original post)

Tue Dec 18, 2012, 01:00 PM

52. Let them ask away. . . .

There is NO law that requires that one carry identification. Drivers must have licenses when they drive, but it is NOT a requirement to have one otherwise. the USA has categorically REJECTED the idea of any kind of national ID. What part of this do those assholes not understand?

They're just trying to intimidate, as many people feel like they're obliged to answer or comply with a request if it is asked by a police officer.

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Response to dixiegrrrrl (Original post)

Tue Dec 18, 2012, 01:04 PM

54. Won't work

Yakima tried a version of this..gang violence still atrocious, drive by shootings still common place, burglary still a problem.

Try being neighbors again, do you know who lives in your neighborhood? Do you know your kids inthe neighborhood? Do you know who doesn't belong?
Have you reported suspicious persons, activity.

it takes personal involvement,not entrenchment.

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Response to dixiegrrrrl (Original post)

Tue Dec 18, 2012, 02:10 PM

56. When Facism comes to America..............

I thought I lived in America - land of the free, guess I am wrong. Jack-booted self righteous thugs will be patrolling the streets.

A town of 26,000 people and they have a fully equipped SWAT team - who arranged that? Because who ever did that is probably the biggest criminal in Paragould.

But shouldn't the mayor be asking what the police department/sheriff's office has been doing? What changed between 2010 and 2012?

http://www.cityrating.com/crime-statistics/arkansas/paragould.html

2010 Crime (Actual Data)* Incidents
Aggravated Assault 63
Arson 5
Burglary 526
Forcible Rape 15
Larceny and Theft 1,164
Motor Vehicle Theft 64
Murder and Manslaughter 0
Robbery 8
Crime Rate (Total Incidents) 1,779
Property Crime 1,754
Violent Crime 86

2012 Crime (Projected Data)* Incidents
Aggravated Assault 109
Arson 6
Burglary 733
Forcible Rape 18
Larceny and Theft 1,480
Motor Vehicle Theft 87
Murder and Manslaughter 0
Robbery 12
Crime Rate (Total Incidents) 2,330
Property Crime 2,305
Violent Crime 138


Stovall has said that any individual who does not produce identification could be charged with obstructing a governmental operation.
“I’m hoping we don’t run across of that,” Stovall said. “Will there be people who buck us? There may be. But we have a right to be doing what we’re doing. We have a zero-tolerance. We are prepared to throw your hind-end in jail, OK? We’re not going to take a lot of flack.” .....
Paragould Chief Stovall is adamant though. Citizens will be stopped and asked to produce ID and a reason for being on the street. “They may not be doing anything but walking their dog,” he said. “But they’re going to have to prove it.”


When I go walking and/or walking my dog - I do not carry ID - how many people do?


This is a very dangerous precedent and one that needs to be stopped quickly.

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Response to dixiegrrrrl (Original post)

Tue Dec 18, 2012, 02:11 PM

57. Bwahahahaha! I'd give him my lawyer's name and address! ILLEGAL, ANYONE?!

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