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Mon Dec 17, 2012, 02:12 PM

What is the environmental damage from shooting?

and what is the potential damage and pollution once spent ammunition enters it?

29 replies, 1447 views

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Arrow 29 replies Author Time Post
Reply What is the environmental damage from shooting? (Original post)
CreekDog Dec 2012 OP
Skinner Dec 2012 #1
dipsydoodle Dec 2012 #2
CreekDog Dec 2012 #4
dipsydoodle Dec 2012 #5
Recursion Dec 2012 #3
MineralMan Dec 2012 #6
CreekDog Dec 2012 #7
MineralMan Dec 2012 #8
CreekDog Dec 2012 #9
MineralMan Dec 2012 #11
CreekDog Dec 2012 #12
MineralMan Dec 2012 #14
CreekDog Dec 2012 #15
-..__... Dec 2012 #17
CreekDog Dec 2012 #18
-..__... Dec 2012 #21
CreekDog Dec 2012 #22
-..__... Dec 2012 #23
ProgressiveProfessor Dec 2012 #24
-..__... Dec 2012 #27
Bake Dec 2012 #13
CreekDog Dec 2012 #19
KT2000 Dec 2012 #28
LineReply .
gollygee Dec 2012 #10
Zoeisright Dec 2012 #16
ProgressiveProfessor Dec 2012 #29
wtmusic Dec 2012 #20
nadinbrzezinski Dec 2012 #25
Vincardog Dec 2012 #26

Response to CreekDog (Original post)

Mon Dec 17, 2012, 02:14 PM

1. Dead children. (nt)

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Response to CreekDog (Original post)

Mon Dec 17, 2012, 02:21 PM

2. Insensitive questions

.

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Response to dipsydoodle (Reply #2)

Mon Dec 17, 2012, 02:32 PM

4. it's insensitive to ask about the polluting effects of shooting?

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Response to CreekDog (Reply #4)

Mon Dec 17, 2012, 02:45 PM

5. I would perfectly understand the question at another time

but at this moment it just don't sound right given the recent tragic event. You may recall I'm UK and as such in accord with the great majority of our population completely against gun ownership other than for the pupose of recognised sport - competitive target shooting whatever. As such please don't take my comment as being pro gun in any way.

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Response to CreekDog (Original post)

Mon Dec 17, 2012, 02:22 PM

3. Lead and antimony

In general heavy metals aren't good things. Good shooting ranges have linings below their berms so that the metals don't get into the groundwater.

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Response to CreekDog (Original post)

Mon Dec 17, 2012, 02:48 PM

6. Minuscule, really.

Basically unnoticeable when compared to other forms of pollution.

Lead was mined widely in the US, with lead mines all across the country. Not so much any more. Most of our lead comes from other places. Now, lead mining is a big polluter. Metallic lead isn't so much. It can kill some wildlife, if consumed by that wildlife, but that's about it, and the numbers are quite low, actually.

It's not a very good argument, I'm afraid.

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Response to MineralMan (Reply #6)

Mon Dec 17, 2012, 03:02 PM

7. what is a safe level of heavy metal pollution in our water and soil?

you seem to know all about the levels of pollution and that it's below them, do expound on this for us.

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Response to CreekDog (Reply #7)

Mon Dec 17, 2012, 03:27 PM

8. If you're talking about lead, water pollution isn't really the issue from bullets and

fishing sinkers and the like. The risk is of them being eaten by predators. Some lead does enter the water if it's altered to a water soluble chemical, but that's far more likely in lead mining districts where water-soluble lead minerals already exist naturally.

It's really not a huge issue, frankly. Man-made chemicals are a much bigger problem.

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Response to MineralMan (Reply #8)

Mon Dec 17, 2012, 03:33 PM

9. ah, silly me. thinking that ammunition wasn't man-made

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Response to CreekDog (Reply #9)

Mon Dec 17, 2012, 04:18 PM

11. Lead is an element. It's a metal. It doesn't dissolve in

water. Lead isn't actually man made. It's just extracted from its ores. When I say chemicals, I mean chemical compounds. We humans make many of those. Many are soluble in water, and some are organic. They're a much greater risk that metallic lead.

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Response to MineralMan (Reply #11)

Mon Dec 17, 2012, 04:24 PM

12. oil isn't man made, i guess it doesn't pollute

look mister, you're supposed to eat Lucky Charms, not snort them.

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Response to CreekDog (Reply #12)

Mon Dec 17, 2012, 04:54 PM

14. Sure it pollutes. Where I grew up, there was oil seeping up

out of the ground. There were oil slicks on the creek near my home. They were all natural seeps. The Chumash Indians in the area used the tar like oil that seeped out of the ground to waterproof baskets and other objects.

Of course, we've managed to go get lots of oil and use it in lots of ways, thereby polluting much more area. We're good at that. Lots of metals are poisonous to living things. Copper, lead, antimony, and many others. They occur in nature. We've exploited those deposits for our technology, some of which I am using to write this post on DU.

Technology can move poisons from one place to another and create some real problems. However, the lead used in bullets, shotgun shot, and fishing sinkers is one of the less problematic metals, since the lead is in its metallic form. It's still an issue, but there is more lead in all those cars driving around spewing other pollutants than in all the bullets you can imagine. From the car's battery to the weights used to balance your tires and the solder used in its wiring, it's a much more dangerous source of lead. Water soluble compounds of lead are formed inside your car's battery. That's why there are battery recycling programs out there. It used to be that they were just dumped in landfills, where that lead compound leached out.

There are many reasons to restrict firearms ownership. Lead pollution is not one of them. It's a very tiny part of the lead put into the environment by technology. Up until recent years, just about all the paint used on everything had lead in it. Why? Because lead oxide is a great white pigment, one that has never been equaled. Lead makes great bullets and fishing sinkers, too. It's cheap and heavy, the two primary requirements.

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Response to MineralMan (Reply #14)

Mon Dec 17, 2012, 04:59 PM

15. where is all the lead spewing out of cars?

please fast forward to some year that is later than 1991 and try again, but this time, try not to be blitheringly wrong.

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Response to CreekDog (Reply #15)

Mon Dec 17, 2012, 05:04 PM

17. Lead wheel weights...

 

Problem: When you take your car in for wheel balancing, mechanics will often install new wheel weights small, metal pieces that attach to the rim and help adjust for the proper balance. For decades, these metal wheel balancing weights have been made out of lead.

Because of the large number of cars and trucks in the U.S., the total amount of lead used as wheel weights is staggering. According to the U.S. Geological Survey, about 65,000 tons of lead wheel weights are in use on the over 200 million cars and trucks that are driven in the U.S. About 2,000 tons of these weights fall from vehicles every year and into roadways. Most wheel weights are lost on city streets when vehicles hit curbs, bounce over potholes, stop or accelerate suddenly, or turn sharply. Once lost from the vehicle, these leady wheel weights release lead into the environment -- when they are worn down by traffic, lead is spread around by wind or water. And when roadsides are close to reservoirs or other water bodies used as sources of drinking water, this lead can end up in our drinking water. Lead dust can also be tracked by people and pets inside homes and other buildings.


http://www.ceh.org/what-we-do/eliminating-toxics/water-pollution

http://www.google.com/search?as_q=lead+pollution&as_epq=wheel+weights&as_oq=&as_eq=&as_nlo=&as_nhi=&lr=&cr=&as_qdr=all&as_sitesearch=&as_occt=any&safe=images&tbs=&as_filetype=&as_rights=

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Response to -..__... (Reply #17)

Mon Dec 17, 2012, 05:11 PM

18. he didn't use the term "spewing" to refer to lead weights

but that said, since you recognize the problem, of course, it goes without saying that you favor taking action to prevent lead pollution from guns as well.

thank you.

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Response to CreekDog (Reply #18)

Mon Dec 17, 2012, 05:29 PM

21. I favor recycling lead wheel weights...

 

to melt down and make bullets...





Same thing with fired bullets.

Once a year, my range has a volunteer clean-up day.

Repairs to structures, raking up, picking up debris, repairing target retrieval systems, and recovering fired rounds from the back stops and berms.

Last time (IIRC), 2-3 55gal drums worth were recovered from the indoor range alone.

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Response to -..__... (Reply #21)

Mon Dec 17, 2012, 05:40 PM

22. Judging by your posts, you should start wearing gloves next time

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Response to CreekDog (Reply #22)

Mon Dec 17, 2012, 05:52 PM

23. Wellll...

 

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Response to -..__... (Reply #21)

Mon Dec 17, 2012, 08:35 PM

24. They also recycle shot in a similar manner.

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Response to ProgressiveProfessor (Reply #24)

Mon Dec 17, 2012, 08:47 PM

27. I've been reloading for years, but...

 

never got into DIY casting as roughly %90 (not counting .22LR), of my firearms utilize jacketed ammo, and the cost effectiveness .vs time and effort was never really worth it.

It might be something worth reexamining if I worked a tire service center or mechanics shop (or knew someone who worked at one).

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Response to MineralMan (Reply #6)

Mon Dec 17, 2012, 04:45 PM

13. Thank you!

Honestly, some of the arguments being made here are inane (sorry, CreekDog!). There ARE good arguments to be made, but this isn't one of them.

Bake

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Response to Bake (Reply #13)

Mon Dec 17, 2012, 05:14 PM

19. Okay, I see your edits and appreciate you taking a second look

Last edited Mon Dec 17, 2012, 07:18 PM - Edit history (1)

My point was that there is environmental pollution, but I didn't make the point in order to justify gun control. I actually made the point in hopes that people would realize this and understand that there are some other aspects of recreational gun use that are not harmless...and perhaps deal with it.

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Response to MineralMan (Reply #6)

Mon Dec 17, 2012, 08:52 PM

28. not miniscule for wildlife

Swans, geese, pheasants are affected in our wetlands - death. Predators that eat them are also affected.

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Response to CreekDog (Original post)

Mon Dec 17, 2012, 05:01 PM

16. Well, I know quite a few hunters who died from cancer.

I really think all that exposure to lead shot had something to do with it.

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Response to Zoeisright (Reply #16)

Mon Dec 17, 2012, 08:54 PM

29. Hunters really do not expend that many rounds

Clay target shooter on the other hand do and they tend to be reloaders. I have seen people eat and drink while reloading...dumb thing to do.

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Response to CreekDog (Original post)

Mon Dec 17, 2012, 05:20 PM

20. Insignificant compared to the societal damage shooting does.

Your attempt at deflection is a good reminder that they need to be outlawed.

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Response to CreekDog (Original post)

Mon Dec 17, 2012, 08:38 PM

25. This year the Boulevard fire

Happened due to an idiot target shooting in the brush during a red flag warning. One man died, and from memory, 15 homes were destroyed.

It was not pretty.

Oh you mean lead and all that, there is some, but as far as I know...it has not been quantified.

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Response to CreekDog (Original post)

Mon Dec 17, 2012, 08:41 PM

26. depends on the projectile and environment. DU in the desert is different from Lead in the woods

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