HomeLatest ThreadsGreatest ThreadsForums & GroupsMy SubscriptionsMy Posts
DU Home » Latest Threads » Forums & Groups » Main » General Discussion (Forum) » FOR THE LAST TIME, STOP C...

Mon Dec 17, 2012, 01:34 PM

FOR THE LAST TIME, STOP CONFLATING VIOLENCE AND MENTAL ILLNESS

Most people want to assert that “no sane person” would commit a crime like this. It's not true. Sane people do kill. In violent rages, because of financial incentives, in violent fueds and altercations, as part of military or police training.... It is more difficult to understand killing in some contexts than others, but writing off what we are not able to understand as mental illness is an intellectually lazy way of giving up on exploring other factors.

Each time an incident like this occurs and distancing language blaming it on mental illness and refusing to engage with other social factors is used, society pulls further away from mentally ill people. A study in Germany showed that levels of social acceptance for mentally ill people don’t go back to normal after such events. In other words, the stigma faced by mentally ill people increases every single time there’s a horrific event blamed on mental illness circulating in the public consciousness.



http://www.xojane.com/issues/for-the-last-time-stop-conflating-violence-and-mental-illness

22 replies, 2021 views

Reply to this thread

Back to top Alert abuse

Always highlight: 10 newest replies | Replies posted after I mark a forum
Replies to this discussion thread
Arrow 22 replies Author Time Post
Reply FOR THE LAST TIME, STOP CONFLATING VIOLENCE AND MENTAL ILLNESS (Original post)
loyalsister Dec 2012 OP
aquart Dec 2012 #1
Kalidurga Dec 2012 #2
loyalsister Dec 2012 #6
Kalidurga Dec 2012 #13
HereSince1628 Dec 2012 #20
msongs Dec 2012 #3
TwilightGardener Dec 2012 #4
loyalsister Dec 2012 #7
TwilightGardener Dec 2012 #8
loyalsister Dec 2012 #9
TwilightGardener Dec 2012 #10
Fire Walk With Me Dec 2012 #5
OneGrassRoot Dec 2012 #11
HiPointDem Dec 2012 #12
MrMickeysMom Dec 2012 #14
loyalsister Dec 2012 #16
MrMickeysMom Dec 2012 #17
Denninmi Dec 2012 #15
_ed_ Dec 2012 #18
loyalsister Dec 2012 #19
riderinthestorm Dec 2012 #21
loyalsister Dec 2012 #22

Response to loyalsister (Original post)

Mon Dec 17, 2012, 01:39 PM

1. It's a deliberately distractive RW talking point.

They know damn well they're not spending a dime on mental health.

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to loyalsister (Original post)

Mon Dec 17, 2012, 01:40 PM

2. I agree

It is likely in this recent case that Adam Lanza couldn't have been predicted to go on a violent rampage. People like to think they can spot dangerous people. But, in reality the dangerous person might be someone they know and someone they don't suspect could become violent. Hind sight is often the best predictor of violent tendencies. After the fact people can pick apart and analyze what went wrong, but very likely those traits they find are present in a large part of the population that has never been violent and likely won't ever be violent. People with mental health issues are much more likely to be the victim of a violent crime than to perpetrate one.

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to Kalidurga (Reply #2)

Mon Dec 17, 2012, 02:16 PM

6. Psychology is an imperfect science

But given the hidden nature of mental processes, it has been more successful in diagnosing and treating mental illness than we might have imagined.
For some reason, the fact that it exists seems to lead people to believe that all human behavior can be explained.

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to loyalsister (Reply #6)

Mon Dec 17, 2012, 06:32 PM

13. LOL yet most of us can't even explain our own behavior. nt

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to loyalsister (Reply #6)

Mon Dec 17, 2012, 07:55 PM

20. Psychological treatment isn't a lot like any science I was trained in...

It has some empirical components. Every psychologists I've ever met wants to think its BASED on good scientific understanding

But actually down at the swivel chair of clinical practice...that often seems to me to be a lot of guesses on a multiple matching quiz, a serving of confirmational bias, and a big whopping dose of trial and error.

The instability of dx's is a dead give away to the trial and error nature at the diagnostic end. But that may not matter...since CBT and 'mindfulness' now seem to get applied to almost everything, what difference does an accurate dx make?



















Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to loyalsister (Original post)

Mon Dec 17, 2012, 02:01 PM

3. more likely, the desire to own a gun a mental illness. arrested development at least nt

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to loyalsister (Original post)

Mon Dec 17, 2012, 02:09 PM

4. There is little question that this young man

had been severely disturbed--read all the news reports and anecdotes. A mentally ill young man with access to an arsenal of guns caused this. We don't know what his diagnoses were, we don't know what triggered this, and as yet we can't draw any assumptions in terms of abuse, past treatment, meds, etc. I would never condemn all mentally ill people as potentially violent. But let's not pretend that his mental state might have been healthy or wasn't a factor.

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to TwilightGardener (Reply #4)

Mon Dec 17, 2012, 02:22 PM

7. Prolonged rage and anger may be unhealthy conditions

They are NOT identifiable mental illnesses. They may be symptoms, but not necessarily. Diagnosing this young man based on anecdotes and testimonials indicts every person who has the chosen illnesses.

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to loyalsister (Reply #7)

Mon Dec 17, 2012, 02:28 PM

8. No, it does not "indict" anyone. Individuals are not their

diagnosis or illness. It's a part of their lives, not the sum. And there are huge variations in degree of mental illness, and there are endless combinations of environmental, societal, and chemical factors to consider.

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to TwilightGardener (Reply #8)

Mon Dec 17, 2012, 02:34 PM

9. In terms of stigma it does

Do you deny that stigma attached to a specific mental illness increases the negative perceptions that will follow others who have that particular illness?

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to loyalsister (Reply #9)

Mon Dec 17, 2012, 03:42 PM

10. I fully agree about the stigma that surrounds sufferers.

Public education and changing perceptions is the answer.

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to loyalsister (Original post)

Mon Dec 17, 2012, 02:11 PM

5. Thank you. K&R.

 

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to loyalsister (Original post)

Mon Dec 17, 2012, 03:44 PM

11. K&R. n/t

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to loyalsister (Original post)

Mon Dec 17, 2012, 03:50 PM

12. +100. The definition they put forth is completely circular.

 



Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to loyalsister (Original post)

Mon Dec 17, 2012, 06:41 PM

14. The real crime is the inability to see the needs of people... period.

I think this has continued to be worse ever since the days of Reagan when homelessness started becoming a household word.

We don't like to talk about mental illness, do we? No, we don't.

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to MrMickeysMom (Reply #14)

Mon Dec 17, 2012, 07:02 PM

16. I don't mind talking about it

What I do mind is having my friends pigeon holed and facing discriminated more and more discrimination every time mental illness is identified as the cause of a problem with disregard to the facts.

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to loyalsister (Reply #16)

Mon Dec 17, 2012, 07:13 PM

17. Well, we use the words loosely...

"nut" is commensurate with "mentally ill"

Then, "gun nut" denotes how the misuse of guns result in bad outcomes.

I think everyone avoids facts, or the amount of time research addresses mental health issues. We DO have a broken health system, and in particular the mental health portion of it.

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to loyalsister (Original post)

Mon Dec 17, 2012, 06:52 PM

15. Oh, we're all violent deranged killers, don't you know?

Being diagnosed as bipolar myself last August, and spending 3 weeks at a hospital psychiatric day program, I came to realize exactly who and what I am.

So, my day went like this. Got up, went to the gym for my group fitness class, talked with my workout buddies in class, talked about biking, my favorite pastime, with the guys in the locker room, stopped at the store on my way to work, helped an elderly lady reach some merchandise on a high shelf. Talked with the guy ahead of me in line about nothing in particular. Goofed off just a little at work here on DU, then got a bunch of stuff done for clients, traded war stories with the paralegal next door about our IRS cases, complimented the little sweet Korean lady that runs the convenience store about how cute the photo of her grandchildren was, had an appt with a client to sign some docs, did some pro-bono tax work for an unemployed client with IRS issues, told the woman from housekeeping how much I appreciated how nice she always is as I was leaving.

Kinda like anyone who is a member of civil society might. I did take 300 mgs of the mood stabilizing drug lamictal this morning, otherwise, I could be you.

Of course, during the entire day, I had to fight the overwhelming temptation to massacre everyone in sight.

Yeah, I know who and what I am, one hell of a nice, responsible guy who treats others as I would like to be treated, with kindness and respect. And with a genetic flaw that leaves me overly emotional at times.

Doesn't make me some kind of monster.

More than I can say about some of the assholes who have posted about the evil mentally ill here on DU the past four days.

So, to the haters, bite me.

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to loyalsister (Original post)

Mon Dec 17, 2012, 07:14 PM

18. Right!

Has there even been one credible source indicating that this shooter was ever treated for a mental illness?

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to _ed_ (Reply #18)

Mon Dec 17, 2012, 07:22 PM

19. Nothing concrete or specific

"may have had Autism\Asperger's" "his mother said he should be watched" etc.....

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to loyalsister (Original post)

Mon Dec 17, 2012, 08:02 PM

21. +1000000. Agreed. I've been growing increasingly uncomfortable with this meme.

This one, and the one "blaming" Adam Lanza's problems on his mother as though this episode is a result of "bad parenting" . We do NOT have all of the facts about their relationship, where and how her guns were stored, what she was like, Adam's problems (if any)....

Thank you so much for putting this out there (again).

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to riderinthestorm (Reply #21)

Mon Dec 17, 2012, 08:41 PM

22. Yeah I understand the temptation to look for an easy answer

But, there are none. Suppose someone shot an executive from Goldman Sachs. Insane?

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink

Reply to this thread