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Mon Dec 17, 2012, 05:00 AM

Say NO to the "Petition to Forbid Support of the NRA on this Site." Here is why:

This discussion thread was locked as off-topic by Violet_Crumble (a host of the General Discussion forum).

As a hunter, target shooter, and owner of a few guns in Maine where this is part of our culture, I also do NOT support the NRA. While they do actually offer gun use safety programs at target ranges, etc. they are mainly a corporate lobbying arm for the gun and ammo manufacturers that spend millions lobbying for the gun makers and attacking their opponents with viscious ads. This lobby has WAY too much pull. Also, they are extreme in their views and resist almost ANY attempt at reasonable gun control which I support. (i.e. closing registration and background check loopholes, banning assault weapons, etc.)

All that said, I think we should oppose the petition to stop any NRA members here from expressing their support of their membership in that organization. We do not need to get into this kind of censorship on a site that has always valued diversity of opinion. There are people on this site, regular users, who freely bash President Obama and other prominent Democrats all the time. THEY are allowed to express their views without censorship, but if a member is a card-carrying member of the NRA, a safe hunter and target shooter who supports gun ownership in a nation with a history of it, that person must worry about being censored? Is that really the DU way? No, it isn't. I'm sure there are FEW NRA members here on this site so this would be pretty moot anyhow, but there are a good number of gun-owning Democrats all over the nation who hunt, target shoot, and have weapons for personal safety who may also be card-carrying members of the NRA EVEN if they don't support everything the NRA does. These folks are still Democrats and support the party on a host of other issues. Some may be here at DU. They should not be shunned.

We MUST have some DIVERSITY in our party if we are to be a truly NATIONAL party. We DO NOT need to be an INTOLERANT leftwing version of the TeaPublicans who march in absolute lockstep and squash ANYONE who disagrees. I think it speaks well for Democrats that we have some people in our party who, though they agree with the majority on most issues, are able to disagree on some and are still WELCOMED and VALUED. There are some anti-abortion Democrats. There are some that have a disagreement with gay marriage. And there are some that are strong advocates of being able to own firearms for personal protection, target shooting, and hunting, and may even be NRA members. It is ok to have a few divergent views. That is DEMOCRACY. That is LIBERTY. That is AMERICA.

I am a Democrat because we are the BROAD party. We are the DIVERSE party. When I go to party meetings, there is a lot of deliberation, a lot of healthy disagreement, and a lot of work to reach consensus around many issues and the business at hand. This is HEALTHY. This is GOOD. We must not allow ourselves to go down a DANGEROUS road of INTOLERANCE and CENSORSHIP. That is much WORSE than allowing an NRA member to express a divergent viewpoint. The best route to take is to politely REFUTE views you disagree with, but we should not get into this kind of censorship and blanket intolerance. I know the Sandy Hook School tragedy has people in shock, including myself. But this is just when to take a deep breath and stay as calm as possible. Censorship and intolerance are not the answer. If you are opposed to the NRA, work politically with groups in favor of added gun control to oppose the positions of the NRA. Work through the political process. Contact your reps. Write letters to the editor and OP EDs. Etc. But censorship and banning the views of people with divergent views such as supporting the NRA? No. Not the way to go. Thanks.

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Reply Say NO to the "Petition to Forbid Support of the NRA on this Site." Here is why: (Original post)
RBInMaine Dec 2012 OP
Skittles Dec 2012 #1
letemrot Dec 2012 #2
baldguy Dec 2012 #24
randome Dec 2012 #33
letemrot Dec 2012 #106
billh58 Dec 2012 #120
letemrot Dec 2012 #121
Cobalt Violet Dec 2012 #36
letemrot Dec 2012 #110
RBInMaine Dec 2012 #3
Skittles Dec 2012 #4
RBInMaine Dec 2012 #9
Le Taz Hot Dec 2012 #46
Lizzie Poppet Dec 2012 #95
Le Taz Hot Dec 2012 #109
Lizzie Poppet Dec 2012 #122
billh58 Dec 2012 #105
RBInMaine Dec 2012 #10
RBInMaine Dec 2012 #11
RBInMaine Dec 2012 #13
billh58 Dec 2012 #107
RBInMaine Dec 2012 #14
Skittles Dec 2012 #16
Bernardo de La Paz Dec 2012 #20
billh58 Dec 2012 #108
Cobalt Violet Dec 2012 #53
RandiFan1290 Dec 2012 #5
RBInMaine Dec 2012 #8
Warren Stupidity Dec 2012 #43
billh58 Dec 2012 #111
Kolesar Dec 2012 #70
Waiting For Everyman Dec 2012 #6
RBInMaine Dec 2012 #7
thucythucy Dec 2012 #99
MyNameGoesHere Dec 2012 #12
RBInMaine Dec 2012 #15
aandegoons Dec 2012 #19
FailureToCommunicate Dec 2012 #72
rainlillie Dec 2012 #67
cantbeserious Dec 2012 #100
billh58 Dec 2012 #115
Science Geek Dec 2012 #117
Cobalt Violet Dec 2012 #42
Major Nikon Dec 2012 #17
Madam Mossfern Dec 2012 #18
Democracyinkind Dec 2012 #30
Le Taz Hot Dec 2012 #51
blueamy66 Dec 2012 #64
cantbeserious Dec 2012 #101
hifiguy Dec 2012 #116
bongbong Dec 2012 #127
kurtzapril4 Dec 2012 #131
MichaelHarris Dec 2012 #21
boilerbabe Dec 2012 #22
davidpdx Dec 2012 #58
FunkyLeprechaun Dec 2012 #23
oldbanjo Dec 2012 #27
FunkyLeprechaun Dec 2012 #49
ann--- Dec 2012 #31
DrDan Dec 2012 #34
TheAmbivalante Dec 2012 #25
ann--- Dec 2012 #29
DrDan Dec 2012 #32
ann--- Dec 2012 #26
DrDan Dec 2012 #28
corkhead Dec 2012 #35
trumad Dec 2012 #37
FailureToCommunicate Dec 2012 #73
DanTex Dec 2012 #38
Cobalt Violet Dec 2012 #39
lexx21 Dec 2012 #40
Warren Stupidity Dec 2012 #41
geckosfeet Dec 2012 #44
bloomington-lib Dec 2012 #45
sellitman Dec 2012 #47
FailureToCommunicate Dec 2012 #74
mainstreetonce Dec 2012 #48
virtualobserver Dec 2012 #50
Scuba Dec 2012 #52
sunwyn Dec 2012 #54
Spider Jerusalem Dec 2012 #55
davidpdx Dec 2012 #56
AnotherMcIntosh Dec 2012 #112
davidpdx Dec 2012 #119
AnotherMcIntosh Dec 2012 #125
cantbeserious Dec 2012 #57
OldDem2012 Dec 2012 #59
valerief Dec 2012 #60
RetroLounge Dec 2012 #61
freedom fighter jh Dec 2012 #62
MrMickeysMom Dec 2012 #63
rainlillie Dec 2012 #65
99Forever Dec 2012 #66
grantcart Dec 2012 #68
B Stieg Dec 2012 #69
rosesaylavee Dec 2012 #71
Marrah_G Dec 2012 #75
JustABozoOnThisBus Dec 2012 #79
Marrah_G Dec 2012 #83
JustABozoOnThisBus Dec 2012 #92
Pholus Dec 2012 #76
MightyMopar Dec 2012 #77
Hepburn Dec 2012 #78
obamanut2012 Dec 2012 #80
RomneyLies Dec 2012 #81
TheKentuckian Dec 2012 #82
Erose999 Dec 2012 #84
Saboburns Dec 2012 #85
Erose999 Dec 2012 #89
Saboburns Dec 2012 #90
Erose999 Dec 2012 #97
DisgustipatedinCA Dec 2012 #86
OregonBlue Dec 2012 #87
freshwest Dec 2012 #129
we can do it Dec 2012 #88
JustABozoOnThisBus Dec 2012 #91
we can do it Dec 2012 #93
JustABozoOnThisBus Dec 2012 #96
we can do it Dec 2012 #98
Zoeisright Dec 2012 #94
cantbeserious Dec 2012 #102
LanternWaste Dec 2012 #103
billh58 Dec 2012 #104
Politicub Dec 2012 #113
bvar22 Dec 2012 #114
DonCoquixote Dec 2012 #118
neverforget Dec 2012 #123
davidpdx Dec 2012 #124
hrmjustin Dec 2012 #126
jberryhill Dec 2012 #128
cynatnite Dec 2012 #130
Violet_Crumble Dec 2012 #132

Response to RBInMaine (Original post)

Mon Dec 17, 2012, 05:01 AM

1. DIVERSE does not mean enabling murder

ENOUGH ALREADY

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Response to Skittles (Reply #1)

Mon Dec 17, 2012, 05:06 AM

2. Hyperbole much?

 

You are like a broken record. Maybe, just maybe, you should put the blame of crimes on the criminal. I have not enabled murder and most gun (read nearly all) owners haven't either.

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Response to letemrot (Reply #2)

Mon Dec 17, 2012, 06:41 AM

24. Not hyperbole.

If you want to preserve your supposed "right" to carry a gun, you have to accept the responsibility of security that goes with it. What have YOU done personally to stop these mass murders from happening? Because, whatever it is it's been woefully inadequate AD YOU HAVE FAILED MISERABLY!

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Response to baldguy (Reply #24)

Mon Dec 17, 2012, 06:52 AM

33. What have YOU done?

And no, that's not an invitation for everyone to prove their worth on DU.

It is never a good idea to ban opinions we don't agree with. That's also why I will never put anyone on Ignore.

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Response to baldguy (Reply #24)

Mon Dec 17, 2012, 09:17 PM

106. "Supposed" Right

 

Rights of Americans to keep and bear arms are no more 'supposed' than the right to free speech, freedom of religion, right to trial by jury, protection from unreasonable search and seizure. What other rights do you propose to limit so that you can feel more secure?

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Response to letemrot (Reply #106)

Mon Dec 17, 2012, 09:35 PM

120. All of those "freedoms" you

and your Gungeon buddies like to parade around are definitely regulated and restricted, and by that definition are "limited." There is no such thing as an "absolute" right, and that is why we have laws and courts to adjudicate them.

The "right to keep and bear arms" is NOT absolute, although you and the NRA are attempting to make it so. There is no "right" to walk around in public with a fucking gun strapped to your hip. There is no "right" to threaten someone with a gun just because you don't like them. There is no "right" to not be responsible for your actions regarding keeping your gun secure and out of the wrong hands.

The pendulum has started to swing the other way, and sane regulation of guns WILL be reinstituted. The right-wing Republican NRA has had its day, and now it's our turn Bubba.

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Response to billh58 (Reply #120)

Mon Dec 17, 2012, 09:45 PM

121. "Our Turn Bubba"

 

Well... good luck with that, is all I can tell you. I love how so many are asserting that if we support the 2nd Amendment that we must be NRA members and proponents of right wing talking points. It is funny that almost all the gun owners that I know are proud Democrats and balk at being called 'right wing.' I have become used to it here. It would appear that purists will accept the following positions: 1. Ban all guns. 2 Ban all Semi-Auto and Handguns 3. Prohibitively tax all guns to the point where very few if any can afford. 4. Allow musket loaders/flint locks. Anything other than those positions and one must be a "right wing NRA murderous thug."

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Response to letemrot (Reply #2)

Mon Dec 17, 2012, 06:58 AM

36. you better get use to hearing about that the Murderous NRA are indeed Murderous.

It's not going away. You can't silence us.


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Response to Cobalt Violet (Reply #36)

Mon Dec 17, 2012, 09:20 PM

110. Murderous NRA are indeed Murderous

 

I see; using your same logic... the publishers of 'High Times' and users of pot and other illicit drugs are murderous too, no? Since those individuals directly or indirectly support Cartels that are murdering people left and right in their drug wars.

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Response to Skittles (Reply #1)

Mon Dec 17, 2012, 05:07 AM

3. I doubt you read my whole post. Your reply is unthoughtful and extreme. ENOUGH of THAT.

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Response to RBInMaine (Reply #3)

Mon Dec 17, 2012, 05:11 AM

4. I DID READ IT

again, ENOUGH ALREADY

I LIVE IN FUCKING TEXAS....if I want to know what crazy gun nuts think I can watch the local news or ask a neighbor - DU is a SANCTUARY from right-wing nuttery - ENOUGH!!!

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Response to Skittles (Reply #4)

Mon Dec 17, 2012, 05:24 AM

9. No, ENOUGH of YOUR intolerance. The Democratic Party is NOT the Left's version of the TeaBaggers.

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Response to RBInMaine (Reply #9)

Mon Dec 17, 2012, 07:12 AM

46. Get the fuck out!

". . . the Left's version of the TeaBaggers?" You do realize you're parroting a right-wing talking point, right? And you actually see an equivalency here.

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Response to Le Taz Hot (Reply #46)

Mon Dec 17, 2012, 03:05 PM

95. Here's the jury response to this vile post:

Here's yet another great example of just how totally broken the jury ystem is:

Get the fuck out!
http://www.democraticunderground.com/?com=view_post&forum=1002&pid=2008270

REASON FOR ALERT:

This post is disruptive, hurtful, rude, insensitive, over-the-top, or otherwise inappropriate. (See <a href="http://www.democraticunderground.com/?com=aboutus#communitystandards" target="_blank">Community Standards</a>.)

YOUR COMMENTS:

Vulgar, bigoted call-out...clearly against the TOS.

JURY RESULTS

A randomly-selected Jury of DU members completed their review of this alert at Mon Dec 17, 2012, 12:01 PM, and voted 3-3 to LEAVE IT ALONE.

Juror #1 voted to HIDE IT and said: No explanation given
Juror #2 voted to LEAVE IT ALONE and said: No explanation given
Juror #3 voted to LEAVE IT ALONE and said: No explanation given
Juror #4 voted to HIDE IT and said: No explanation given
Juror #5 voted to HIDE IT and said: No explanation given
Juror #6 voted to LEAVE IT ALONE and said: Bigoted? I don't see that .........

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Response to Lizzie Poppet (Reply #95)

Mon Dec 17, 2012, 09:19 PM

109. Good choice.

Considering there's no callout and no signs of bigotry in the post I'm not sure why you're getting your panties in a wad unless it's my use of the word "fuck" at which point you might want to get out your fainting couch when you get on DU because you'll see that word a lot.

Now, go blow your nose and go get a cookie.

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Response to Le Taz Hot (Reply #109)

Mon Dec 17, 2012, 09:55 PM

122. You're a real piece of work.

On a forum with actual objective moderation, I'd be more than happy to give you the response you deserve. Here? I'll just add yet another waste-of-electrons to my ignore list. Have a nice life, cull.

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Response to RBInMaine (Reply #9)

Mon Dec 17, 2012, 09:15 PM

105. One can only be intolerant

against a valid and sane position. The NRA, through its members, enables the most extreme, right-wing, asshats that ever bought a politician.

No, ENOUGH of YOUR defense of the indefensible. YOU do not make up the rules by which Democrats conduct themselves, and we have been much too quiet, for much too long on the issue of sane gun control.

Fuck the NRA AND its members.

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Response to Skittles (Reply #4)

Mon Dec 17, 2012, 05:24 AM

10. Apparently you need to read it again, especially the first paragraph.

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Response to Skittles (Reply #4)

Mon Dec 17, 2012, 05:29 AM

11. So it is ok to BASH OBAMA here, but an NRA member gets censored? That is actually your view? hmm...

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Response to Skittles (Reply #4)

Mon Dec 17, 2012, 05:31 AM

13. Maybe there is a bit of leftwing nuttery roaming around. Ultra purity is rather unhealthy on both

sides, don't you think? Do you really want this site and the Democratic Party to be the left's version of FreeRepublic and the TeaBaggers?

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Response to RBInMaine (Reply #13)

Mon Dec 17, 2012, 09:17 PM

107. That is only YOUR

interpretation, and it is wrong. DU has been allowed to express its true feelings about gun control after a very long run of right-wing bullshit being allowed from the Gungeon.

Again, it you support the NRA, or advocate "tolerance" of their views, YOU are a part of the problem.

Fuck the NRA!

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Response to Skittles (Reply #4)

Mon Dec 17, 2012, 05:32 AM

14. So you want DU to become the Left's version of FreeRepublic? hmmm...

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Response to RBInMaine (Reply #14)


Response to Skittles (Reply #16)

Mon Dec 17, 2012, 06:13 AM

20. Personal attacks are over the top (accusing RB of being mental and needing "meds"). Pls stop. nt

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Response to RBInMaine (Reply #14)

Mon Dec 17, 2012, 09:19 PM

108. Nice attempt at

the very Gungeon-like use of false equivalency. DU will never be like FR, and we don't need to support the fucking NRA to prove something that doesn't need to be proven -- especially to you.

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Response to Skittles (Reply #4)

Mon Dec 17, 2012, 07:21 AM

53. You need to be more tolerant of more babies being killed.

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Response to RBInMaine (Original post)

Mon Dec 17, 2012, 05:13 AM

5. Yeah yeah the "big tent" bs

The left hasn't been invited into the tent. Too full of "centrists" and right wingers. Most of us are still standing outside wondering what it looks like in that big pretty tent.

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Response to RandiFan1290 (Reply #5)

Mon Dec 17, 2012, 05:22 AM

8. The last thing we need to be is the Left's version of the TeaBaggers. Please, be real.

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Response to RBInMaine (Reply #8)

Mon Dec 17, 2012, 07:05 AM

43. You are not on the left, so please refrain from using "we" while equating us with

The teabag nuts.

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Response to RBInMaine (Reply #8)

Mon Dec 17, 2012, 09:21 PM

111. You keep repeating that

tired old bullshit mantra. We are talking about the fucking right-wing, Republican supporting fucking NRA. Tolerance my ass!

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Response to RandiFan1290 (Reply #5)

Mon Dec 17, 2012, 08:18 AM

70. There are conservatives who vote for Democratic party candidates

People who are skeptical of the party of the rich find their way to our fold occasionally. Some of them have Christian beliefs like humility and social justice. I have had a few conversations with in-laws who felt that way.

There are more self identified Conservatives than Liberals in the US.
***
Not that any of this is about the NRA and the issue on DU.

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Response to RBInMaine (Original post)

Mon Dec 17, 2012, 05:17 AM

6. Democratic gun owners, fine. The NRA, no,

we don't need to hear from the corporate gun lobby. You said that's what it is yourself. If the tent is that big, it's too big. Just my opinion, of course.

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Response to Waiting For Everyman (Reply #6)

Mon Dec 17, 2012, 05:21 AM

7. Don't like the NRA? Then don't join. Refute it. But shun some who joins? That's democracy? hmm...

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Response to RBInMaine (Reply #7)

Mon Dec 17, 2012, 06:22 PM

99. Would you say the same about the KKK?

"Don't like the KKK. Then don't join it. Refute it. But shun some who joins?..."

I'll admit this is somewhat hyperbolic (and I think there are some here who would argue that it isn't) but I'm curious as to your response.

Just how far would you extend the open door here on DU? If the NRA--which has castigated our president (and has on its board a member who has, on multiple occasions, called for his murder), worked tirelessly to defeat progressive Democrats, funneled tens of millions of dollars and millions of volunteer and paid hours into electing the most vile reactionairies--and all in the interests of a few major corporations reaping profits off of fear, injury, and death--if that organization is to be welcomed into DU with open arms, then where exactly would you draw the line?

Seriously, I want to know.

How about folks who praise the US Chamber of Commerce? Operation Rescue? Homophobic churches? Right wing militias? The Tea Party?

What does an organization have to do for you to say, okay, enough, we shouldn't welcome these folks and those who support them into a forum expressly built for progressive Democrats?

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Response to RBInMaine (Original post)

Mon Dec 17, 2012, 05:29 AM

12. Gun owners are no longer allowed to frame the course of gun control

You lost that right by proving as a whole you are incapable of restraint. It is not a blanket attack, it is us normal people protecting ourselves. It was a gun and the gun must pay the price.

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Response to MyNameGoesHere (Reply #12)

Mon Dec 17, 2012, 05:42 AM

15. You are making a serious mistake lumping all gun owners together like this, and you are forgetting

the very culture in which you live. You are being stereotypical. This is a nation with a long history and heritage of hunting and target shooting and gun ownership for home protection, and you will NEVER, EVER change that. Most gun owners, like myself, are very responsible and reasonable. As you saw from my post, I am NOT an NRA member and I support the assault weapons ban and many other regulations and reforms. But you are OUTSIDE REALITY if you think you are going to wipe out responsible gun ownership in this country. Please read by OP again. The answer here is to work TOGETHER to find SOLUTIONS we can all agree to. We do not need a national civil war over gun ownership.

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Response to RBInMaine (Reply #15)

Mon Dec 17, 2012, 06:11 AM

19. I don't think he is.

It is one thing to own a gun. It is another to be proud of that to the point you have to bring it up on a Democratic board right after a mass murder.

Really what possesses someone to be so crass as to do the second, and should those same people who do not have the sense of a potato bug be allowed to have a platform to recruit more?

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Response to aandegoons (Reply #19)

Mon Dec 17, 2012, 08:43 AM

72. +1

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Response to RBInMaine (Reply #15)

Mon Dec 17, 2012, 08:06 AM

67. "You are making a serious mistake lumping all gun owners together "

That's the problem.

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Response to RBInMaine (Reply #15)

Mon Dec 17, 2012, 08:48 PM

100. Yes, And This American Is Sick And Tired Of Gun Owners Dictating Their Paranoia On The Rest Of Us

eon

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Response to RBInMaine (Reply #15)

Mon Dec 17, 2012, 09:24 PM

115. We don't want to

"wipe out responsible gun ownership in this country," we want to bring it back and ENFORCE it. What part of Gun control do you not understand? There are way too many guns falling into the hands of those who shouldn't have them, and it is you "responsible" owners who are allowing that.

We want responsibility and accountability -- NOT your fucking guns Bubba.

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Response to RBInMaine (Reply #15)

Mon Dec 17, 2012, 09:27 PM

117. You will never, ever change that...

...is heard often just before things begin to change.

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Response to MyNameGoesHere (Reply #12)

Mon Dec 17, 2012, 07:03 AM

42. Yup , they are baby killers now.

And they should be treated as such.

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Response to RBInMaine (Original post)

Mon Dec 17, 2012, 05:50 AM

17. I'm all for censoring an organization here that partners with CPAC and ALEC

If you want freedom of speech on wingnuttery, there's plenty of other sites where you can exercise it.

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Response to RBInMaine (Original post)

Mon Dec 17, 2012, 06:09 AM

18. Isn't is better to debate

members of the NRA instead of banning them?

We must not stick our fingers in our ears and chant "Nyah nyah nyah, nayaaa nyaa, I ca-an't hear you!" That's how we all lose.

If you're afraid to have a conversation with NRA members, maybe you need to hone your arguments against the NRA.

No, I don't own a gun and I'm not a member.

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Response to Madam Mossfern (Reply #18)

Mon Dec 17, 2012, 06:51 AM

30. Freepers, Holocaust Deniers, Chemtrailers, Pedophiles...


Why exclude them? Let's not stick our fingers in our ears and chant...

See a problem with that argument?

We have to draw a line. Me might as well debate were that line ends.

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Response to Madam Mossfern (Reply #18)

Mon Dec 17, 2012, 07:19 AM

51. May I offer you a quote?

"To argue with a man who has renounced his reason is like giving medicine to the dead. ~~~ Thomas Paine.

1.The NRA renounced all reason years ago.
2.Any attempt at debating dogma is a waste of time.

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Response to Le Taz Hot (Reply #51)

Mon Dec 17, 2012, 08:00 AM

64. Very well stated

 

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Response to Le Taz Hot (Reply #51)

Mon Dec 17, 2012, 08:49 PM

101. Thank You For Reminding Us That Arguing With Gun Owners Is Futile - What Was I Thinking

eom

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Response to Le Taz Hot (Reply #51)

Mon Dec 17, 2012, 09:24 PM

116. +1 one of the all time

great quotes.

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Response to Le Taz Hot (Reply #51)

Mon Dec 17, 2012, 10:42 PM

127. Great quote

 

Paine really nails it. Now I see why the gungeon (from which I'm banned since I made too many of the "liberals" over there uncomfortable) seemed like an insane alternate reality.

I keep getting into trouble for saying it, but wanting a gun (if your job doesn't call for it and you don't need it for wildlife protection) is a type of mental illness. Related to paranoia.

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Response to bongbong (Reply #127)

Mon Dec 17, 2012, 11:55 PM

131. Uhhh.....no.

that's ridiculous. Some people target shoot, some people shoot skeet. Some people procure their own food. Normal people do those things. For the record, I do not own a gun, I do not want to own a gun, and I think we need to declare war on the NRA.

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Response to RBInMaine (Original post)

Mon Dec 17, 2012, 06:13 AM

21. I'll sign a

petition to forbid Support of the NRA on this site just like I vote, 5 or 6 times. Just kidding, I only voted once but I'll damn sure sign a petition 5 or 6 times to run the NRA's dumb-ass off.

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Response to RBInMaine (Original post)

Mon Dec 17, 2012, 06:17 AM

22. is it mandatory for all gun enthusiasts to be members of the NRA? It's a lobbying arm for the GOP

fer chrissake. it amazes me what magical hold guns have on some of you . it warps your thinking.

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Response to boilerbabe (Reply #22)

Mon Dec 17, 2012, 07:31 AM

58. Yes, you are right

The logic does fail on that one.

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Response to RBInMaine (Original post)

Mon Dec 17, 2012, 06:28 AM

23. Why do you want to support the NRA?

They have not said a peep since the Newtown shooting. They took down their FB page and haven't said a word on their Twitter page (they did exactly the same thing post-Aurora for 10 days, not their FB page). They are cowards and they are trying to make a plan to deflect all of this. I'm hearing some sort of deflection from the NRA supporters- "It's not about the guns, it's about mental health care."

That said, I think their silence implies support for these mass shootings to keep occurring. I'll take it as that.

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Response to FunkyLeprechaun (Reply #23)

Mon Dec 17, 2012, 06:49 AM

27. It is about mental health, half the kids in schools are on meds,

something is wrong. I'm thru with the NRA because of their lies during the election, also they do go overboard. In the case of this shooting it is about mental health. The people on this site the last two days think they can make the guns go away, they can't. The drug people have guns, lots of them, as long as they have a gun I'll have mine. Mexico is controlled by the drug people and their guns. The US does not need to be in that same position.

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Response to oldbanjo (Reply #27)

Mon Dec 17, 2012, 07:17 AM

49. It's not just about mental health

It's the easy access to firearms. Harris and Klebold wanted guns and got them. Lanza wanted guns and got them. Holmes wanted guns and got them. Cho wanted guns and got them. And all the other mass shooters, as there are far too many, wanted guns and got them.

If you start cutting off the easy access to firearms, it will be harder for the drug people to obtain them and take them to Mexico. And criminals as well. Simple.

I'm reminded of the Luby's massacre where a CCW WOULD NOT HAVE WORKED, despite the fact that Suzanna Gratia Hupp kept claiming that if she had been able to bring her gun into the restaurant, she'd have stopped it. Wasn't there a mall shooting where a CCW guy confronted the shooter and he was shot to death? Oh and the Congresswoman shooting? A CCW guy nearly shot the wrong guy. CCWs DO NOT WORK and it is more harm than good (people love to cite the incident where two young yobbos tried to rob a little casino with a broken handgun and the CCW guy drove them out, although he was not watching exactly where he aimed, moving along as he was shooting, and he could have seriously hurt innocent people).

People keep saying that if the principal had a gun, she would have stopped the young man. I will counter that argument with if the young man had a smaller magazine round (3-6) and had to change the round after shooting out the doors, the principal would have tackled him. But NO, it HAD to be legal to have a THIRTY ROUND MAGAZINE!!!!

The Mental Health argument is a deflection away from the problem of easily accessible firearms. Just today I read about a little boy who accidentally shot himself in the head by a gun that was left out in the open.

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Response to FunkyLeprechaun (Reply #23)


Response to FunkyLeprechaun (Reply #23)

Mon Dec 17, 2012, 06:54 AM

34. it also implies cowardice - they cannot defend their own warped views

they are not the John Waynes they want the world to think they are

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Response to RBInMaine (Original post)

Mon Dec 17, 2012, 06:48 AM

25. I'm a Democrat


I won't sign on to a ban of anything. I'm a Democrat.
I'll gladly fight my battles with words not blacklists. I'm a Democrat.
If you like guns, I'll argue with you forever and I'll win. I'm a Democrat.
I'll fight for inclusion. I'm a Democrat.
I'll fight for everyone. I'm a Democrat.

DU Anti-NRA pledge signers, you have an ignore link. You have a report link. You have an off button on your computer.
Please tell me you're not going to fall for that cowardly tactic.




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Response to TheAmbivalante (Reply #25)


Response to TheAmbivalante (Reply #25)

Mon Dec 17, 2012, 06:52 AM

32. the "cowardly tactic" is not standing up to the NRA/gun nuts

well past time to do that

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Response to RBInMaine (Original post)


Response to RBInMaine (Original post)

Mon Dec 17, 2012, 06:50 AM

28. believe I shall support it . . . we have had enough

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Response to RBInMaine (Original post)

Mon Dec 17, 2012, 06:57 AM

35. I have no problem with the intolerance and censoring of bigots and republicon talking points here

The NRA above all else is about getting republicons elected by scaring gun owners about Democratic "gun grabbers". Those views should not be welcome here any more than the NRA welcomes gun control legislation. They have plenty of other places to spew their shit.

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Response to RBInMaine (Original post)

Mon Dec 17, 2012, 06:58 AM

37. Fuck the NRA and fuck those who support it.

Please bring back the unrec button.

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Response to trumad (Reply #37)

Mon Dec 17, 2012, 08:48 AM

73. Agreed. Where is the "unrec" when you really need it?

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Response to RBInMaine (Original post)

Mon Dec 17, 2012, 06:59 AM

38. Question. Why, of all right-wing lobbies, should the NRA be the one where we allow

open support on DU? Surely if there were people supporting the anti-GBLT lobby, they would be banned. I hope we wouldn't tolerate oil-industry-sponsored propaganda denying climate change. I hope we wouldn't tolerate anti-union stuff from the Koch Brothers.

So why the NRA?

This is supposed to be a message board for progressives and Democrats. There already is censorship. You already can't come here and post that Michelle Bachmann should be president and Obama is a Kenyan. Why should supporting Wayne LaPierre and Grover Norquist be any different?

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Response to RBInMaine (Original post)

Mon Dec 17, 2012, 07:01 AM

39. Our tent is not big enought for the NRA Baby Killers! n/t

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Response to RBInMaine (Original post)

Mon Dec 17, 2012, 07:01 AM

40. It isn't' that we don't appreciate guns

or the right to use them for hunting or target practice.

The problem is in your mind that the term "gun rights" and RKBA are all so associated with owing guns that you *think* you can't talk about those terms without mentioning NRA rhetoric. It's a supreme bit of marketing on the NRA's part.

Who planted that idea in your brain? You honestly think you did?

When a constitutional right becomes so closely associated with a corporate lobbying firm, it's time to jettison the firm. The NRA doesn't own the 2nd amendment. You just think it does.

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Response to RBInMaine (Original post)

Mon Dec 17, 2012, 07:02 AM

41. Family research council too.

Plus all the other fucked right wing organizations.

Lets welcome the homophobes, the racists, the misogynists. Heck lets welcome republicans.

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Response to RBInMaine (Original post)

Mon Dec 17, 2012, 07:06 AM

44. I won't sign the ban post either. For the reasons you state, and others.

I do support increased moderation and juries with mandatory hiding to keep NRA and gun support posts in the forums that were created for them.

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Response to RBInMaine (Original post)

Mon Dec 17, 2012, 07:09 AM

45. no to purity tests

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Response to RBInMaine (Original post)

Mon Dec 17, 2012, 07:13 AM

47. You sure have gone out of your way to fight for an organization you don't even belong too.

Or agree with.

That alone is suspect.

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Response to sellitman (Reply #47)

Mon Dec 17, 2012, 08:51 AM

74. Good point.

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Response to RBInMaine (Original post)

Mon Dec 17, 2012, 07:16 AM

48. We must fight.

Yes, Mr. Heston,we will take the power from your cold dead hands. Save our children from the NRA.

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Response to RBInMaine (Original post)

Mon Dec 17, 2012, 07:17 AM

50. allowing support of an organization that actively spends massive dollars.....

to defeat Democrats is absolutely insane on a site called Democratic Underground. Case closed.

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Response to RBInMaine (Original post)

Mon Dec 17, 2012, 07:19 AM

52. Sorry, supporting the NRA is supporting a Republican propaganda machine.

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Response to RBInMaine (Original post)

Mon Dec 17, 2012, 07:23 AM

54. Let me start by saying I hate guns.

I hate the noise. I hate the smell. I hate what they do to any living thing when the bullet rips through a living thing. Assault weapons are made for nothing else but to kill other living things. You can't get away from that fact. And another thing I hate - the NRA. The bullshit that spews from that org is enough to make me puke on a daily basis. But I am also a gun owner. Not by choice but by necessity. I live in the country and do my best to raise as much food of my own as possible. But I had to face the fact years ago that I have to protect the creatures under my care from the other animals that see them as food. I am amazed at how easy it is to get a gun in this country. No one told me I had to get a background check (I bought a rifle). No one told me I was required to take a gun safety course. No one asked about my mental health. Nothing, nada, nil. While I don't think we should ban the NRA, we definitely need to start changing the discussion on guns in this country and how we view them and how they effect our society. The only way to stop the NRA is to change the attitudes of people in this country thus making the org irrelevant.

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Response to RBInMaine (Original post)

Mon Dec 17, 2012, 07:28 AM

55. Should we not?

The NRA is a de facto lobbying wing of the Republican Party. Supporting Republicans is a bannable offence already. In case you haven't noticed, there's already significant censorship of political speech in this forum. One is not allowed to advocate against the Democratic Party, or for the Republican Party, or for the Libertarian Party, or for the Green Party (at least not during election season).

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Response to RBInMaine (Original post)

Mon Dec 17, 2012, 07:28 AM

56. I agree and have said so in other threads

I also don't like the NRA and I don't even have a gun.

At the same time I don't think you can play McCarthyism, which is what the person who posted the petition was asking for.

We have a system in place to deal with problems:

1) Juries

2) MIRT

3) Admins

Does that work perfectly all the time? No. I've been on juries dozens of times where I've disagreed with the outcome.

I do believe something has to be done to stop the violence and a free and open debate of ideas should be held within our own party.

The petition is asking without any other reason as someone is assumed to be an NRA member be banned. So we are really going to act as judge, jury, and executioner with no evidence. That's just dumb.

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Response to davidpdx (Reply #56)

Mon Dec 17, 2012, 09:22 PM

112. Evidence should otherwise be required? That would slow things down.

 

Isn't it more fun for some to irrationally say:
"Fuck the NRA."
"Fuck the NRA talking points."
"Fuck the NRA supporters."
"Fuck the NRA sympathizers."

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Response to AnotherMcIntosh (Reply #112)

Mon Dec 17, 2012, 09:35 PM

119. I hope you just were missing the sarcasm tag on that one

Or that's what I'm guessing. We could just get an online guillotine and once we convict anyone who smells like an NRA supporter have an execution. I feel like that's what people are asking for.

(seriously I was joking about the guillotine and only using it to overstate my point, just in case someone thinks I not joking.)

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Response to davidpdx (Reply #119)

Mon Dec 17, 2012, 10:34 PM

125. Yea, not serious. But some here are.

 

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Response to RBInMaine (Original post)

Mon Dec 17, 2012, 07:30 AM

57. Disagree Say Yes Ban NRA Support At DU

eom

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Response to RBInMaine (Original post)

Mon Dec 17, 2012, 07:49 AM

59. Well, your post is filled with lofty ideals, but....

....I personally reserve the right to be very critical of the NRA, and the people who belong to that organization, as long as they continue to support the sale of assault weapons. Until that changes, I plan to use the DU "Ignore" and "Trash this thread" functions rather liberally. I simply refuse to read and/or reply to their constant excuses and attempts to deflect the blame for the Newtown shooting on anything but the easy availability of legally and illegally purchased firearms.

Just my opinion, but all of the efforts the US Government is currently directing toward enforcing pot laws could be redirected toward enforcing what I hope will be new gun laws in the very near future.

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Response to RBInMaine (Original post)

Mon Dec 17, 2012, 07:53 AM

60. Go join the Stand Your DU Ground dot com site and take your gun fetish with you. nt

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Response to RBInMaine (Original post)

Mon Dec 17, 2012, 07:55 AM

61. Sorry, I don't support murder-enablers like the NRA

You're free to leave

RL

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Response to RBInMaine (Original post)

Mon Dec 17, 2012, 07:57 AM

62. +1

Free speech allows bad ideas to be shown for what they are, rather than pushed out of view.

The NRA is pretty reviled right now, and rightly so, but that's no reason for them to be banned from DU.

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Response to RBInMaine (Original post)

Mon Dec 17, 2012, 07:59 AM

63. I already said "NO" and I don't need another petition to do that!

Shheeeeshhh...

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Response to RBInMaine (Original post)

Mon Dec 17, 2012, 08:05 AM

65. I don't agree with the NRA, but I support the right

for folks to belong to any legal organization they choose. Good post, BTW.

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Response to RBInMaine (Original post)

Mon Dec 17, 2012, 08:05 AM

66. Fuck the NRA.

And if you want to give the baby killing assholes a venue, open your own fucking website. They aren't welcome here anymore.

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Response to RBInMaine (Original post)

Mon Dec 17, 2012, 08:07 AM

68. Is there not some alternative group to the NRA that would be more consistent with our values?


What you do not address is the fact that the NRA is an anti Democratic partisan machine.


Living in Spokane we were shocked by the mass shooting at Fairchild Airforce Base where a deranged gunman went to the hospital and took revenge on the doctors that found him unfit to serve.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fairchild_Air_Force_Base#Shooting

Speaker of the House Tom Foley, a lifelong member of the NRA and a gun owner, joined the overwhelming feeling of the community that this was the time to support the ban on Assault Weapons.

NRA spent hundreds of thousands of dollars to defeat Foley and their support was critical in defeating him after decades of landslide wins.

None of the ads bought by the NRA referred to gun ownership or the ban as an issue. They ran back to back ads on the idea of 'term limits'.

(His successor pledged to serve only 3 terms. He served 6)

While they may support a few token Democrats and may punish a few Republicans the NRA is part of the Republican infrastructure, as much as conservative evangelica Churches.

Why can't gun owners at DU support some alternative to the NRA?

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Response to RBInMaine (Original post)

Mon Dec 17, 2012, 08:15 AM

69. The problem is that...

you see a need to own a gun. The choice implies a certain misprision regarding how much control you have in this particular universe. Guns are simply too dangerous to allow in a civilian context.

As for the NRA, it is a lobbying group that has little serious engagement with the real issues surrounding guns. In other words, they are a proganda wing, so why engage them? Like the tax ideologues in the Congress, they are not interested in the give-and-take of discourse except as a rationalization for the continued presentation of what is an a paranoid, anacronistic perspective built on pure fear. If you want sportsmanship, learn to run distance.

Don't talk to me about free speech when what you do can too easily cost lives. Words rarely kill; bullets often do.

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Response to RBInMaine (Original post)

Mon Dec 17, 2012, 08:20 AM

71. The NRA membership

is smarter than their lobbying arm and in the past, despite it's more progressive leanings, is largely ignored by the lobbying end.

I am very much for gun regulation, hate the NRA lobby for the steaming pile it is but agree overall with your post.

Not only would censorship be hard to manage here but having friends who are members of the NRA, this is pretty much what they have told me about the NRA. It does function well in terms of training, safety issues, etc. and from what I can tell, there is no other organization in place that does this.

There are more efficient ways of dealing with the issue of gun violence and addressing the NRA lobby is only one.

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Response to RBInMaine (Original post)

Mon Dec 17, 2012, 08:55 AM

75. You can be a gun owner without supporting the NRA

The NRA goes against our values as Democrats and Progressives.

Supporting the NRA just because you own guns is the equivalent of supporting the AFA because you are a Christian.

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Response to Marrah_G (Reply #75)

Mon Dec 17, 2012, 10:38 AM

79. You can even be a NRA member without supporting the NRA

Some marksmanship competitions are run by the NRA, and you need to be a member to compete. Not all members contribute extra to Wayne LaPierre's antics.

Like church, you can attend and contribute without buying into every position of the Vatican.

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Response to JustABozoOnThisBus (Reply #79)

Mon Dec 17, 2012, 11:11 AM

83. Just being a member gives them another number to add to their membership

And those numbers of people are used in lobbying to force the hands of our representatives.

Also there are membership fees are there not?

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Response to Marrah_G (Reply #83)

Mon Dec 17, 2012, 02:13 PM

92. There are dues. And there are campaigns asking for donations ...

... that are WAAY more annoying than Grovelbot on his whiniest days.

They even recommended some Democrats for congress, like my Rep.

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Response to RBInMaine (Original post)

Mon Dec 17, 2012, 08:57 AM

76. Seems to be a NO BRAINER. NRA violates DU Terms of Service


From the Terms of Service
-------------------------------

Vote for Democrats.

Winning elections is important therefore, advocating in favor of Republican nominees or in favor of third-party spoiler candidates that could split the vote and throw an election to our conservative opponents is never permitted on Democratic Underground. But that does not mean that DU members are required to always be completely supportive of Democrats. During the ups-and-downs of politics and policy-making, it is perfectly normal to have mixed feelings about the Democratic officials we worked hard to help elect. When we are not in the heat of election season, members are permitted to post strong criticism or disappointment with our Democratic elected officials, or to express ambivalence about voting for them. In Democratic primaries, members may support whomever they choose. But when general election season begins, DU members must support Democratic nominees (EXCEPT in rare cases where were a non-Democrat is most likely to defeat the conservative alternative, or where there is no possibility of splitting the liberal vote and inadvertently throwing the election to the conservative alternative). For presidential contests, election season begins when both major-party nominees become clear. For non-presidential contests, election season begins on Labor Day. Everyone here on DU needs to work together to elect more Democrats and fewer Republicans to all levels of American government. If you are bashing, trashing, undermining, or depressing turnout for our candidates during election season, we'll assume you are rooting for the other side.


From the NRA
-----------------

http://www.typicalshooter.com/lapierre-obama-will-have-gun-owners-to-thank-for-his-defeat/


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Response to Pholus (Reply #76)

Mon Dec 17, 2012, 09:47 AM

77. NRA=ALEC= rightwing propaganda machine

 

Just because some Democrats are in the NRA and they support some rightwing Democratic candidates doesn't mean they should be granted a platform for their propaganda. Many Democrats were and are racists or homophobes. Want to give them a soapbox?

Another thing, the victory dances they want to do everytime some crook gets killed by civilian guns is despicable.

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Response to RBInMaine (Original post)

Mon Dec 17, 2012, 10:33 AM

78. MEGA FUCK THE NRA...

...they should be boycotted. The blood is on the hands of everyone of their gun adoring members.

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Response to RBInMaine (Original post)

Mon Dec 17, 2012, 10:39 AM

80. The NRA is a RW organization -- period

I own two handguns and a long gun, and hold a CCW permit.

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Response to RBInMaine (Original post)

Mon Dec 17, 2012, 10:41 AM

81. NRA = GOP

 

If you support one, you support the other.

End of discussion.

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Response to RBInMaine (Original post)

Mon Dec 17, 2012, 10:45 AM

82. My view of the right to keep and bear arms is more expansive than the NRA's

but I still oppose them as a right wing organization devoted to electing TeaPubliKlans and have a tendency to get outside of their area into other conservatism I cannot swallow.

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Response to RBInMaine (Original post)

Mon Dec 17, 2012, 11:25 AM

84. The NRA is the propaganda wing of the GOP. They routinely send out lists of "their" candidates to


their members, with the names of NRA approved candidates in their districts. Never seen a Dem candidate on the list my uncle recieves.

They also advocate for gun de-regulation that goes way beyond the pale concerning the individual 2A rights of sportsmen and homeowners. They are pushing the agenda of the gun manufacturers, over safety and common sense.

Fuck the NRA, and fuck anyone who associates themselves with those swine.

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Response to Erose999 (Reply #84)

Mon Dec 17, 2012, 11:44 AM

85. Good post

I don't own any guns but the calls to ban the NRA are a knee jerk emotional reaction. I don't do purity tests on something some people don't like, eclectically one that's gaur entered in the Bill of Rights.

The calls for these bans remind me of something Jim Robinson would do.

You may now fire away ay me.

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Response to Saboburns (Reply #85)

Mon Dec 17, 2012, 12:19 PM

89. Please tell me how the interests of the DU community and the NRA are congruent. Tell me how the NRA


works toward the goal of a free/secular/pluralist/egalitarian/non-violent society. I don't see it.

They're advocating solving gun violence by making more guns more available. Thats like "bombing for peace" or "fucking for virginity".

"Calls to ban the NRA are a knee jerk reaction" - you might call it a knee jerk reaction if something like this happened only once every 20 years or so. But these gun massacres are happening almost weekly now. Its pretty much the opposite of "knee jerk"

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Response to Erose999 (Reply #89)

Mon Dec 17, 2012, 12:41 PM

90. Calls to ban the NRA on DemocraticUnderground is a knee jerk reaction

You are free to bash the NRA here, and I hope you do. But we Progressives dont do purity tests. Big difference.

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Response to Saboburns (Reply #90)

Mon Dec 17, 2012, 03:13 PM

97. IMO the NRA has as much American blood on its hands as Al Qaeda. Whether you interpret that as a


"purity test" is your own thing. I will not consider anything the NRA has to say anymore than I would consider anything from Westboro Baptist Church or the Ku Klux Klan.

Theres a point where the tent gets too big.

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Response to RBInMaine (Original post)

Mon Dec 17, 2012, 11:52 AM

86. We ARE a diverse party, but support for a right-wing terrorist organization is beyond the pale

Have your guns if you must. But don't support Crossroads GPS, the American Family Association, the NRA, or other right-wing outlets. Advocacy for these groups should not be permitted here.

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Response to RBInMaine (Original post)

Mon Dec 17, 2012, 12:00 PM

87. Sorry RB but I no longer believe that any decent person could continue to support the NRA. They do

not represent Americans. They represent gun manufacturers. They are a bane on our country and should be shunned. I personally believe that censorship and intolerance is exactly what is needed. I don't care what their point of view is, it's wrong. If 20 little children dead is not enough to convince people that there is no place for pro-gun groups in this country, then what is? I don't want any more talk. I want action. I do not want to hear their side of the story. I've heard it all before. This is not the time for discussion. This is the time to put an end to discussion and ban these baby killing weapons for good.

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Response to OregonBlue (Reply #87)

Mon Dec 17, 2012, 11:31 PM

129. +1

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Response to RBInMaine (Original post)

Mon Dec 17, 2012, 12:05 PM

88. Fuck the NRA, Fuck the gun kooks, Fuck guns

Post gun shit somewhere else

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Response to we can do it (Reply #88)

Mon Dec 17, 2012, 01:59 PM

91. If only we had a forum for that ...

... something, maybe call it "Gungeon".

But when there's a tragedy like this week, "gun shit" permeates LBN, GD, Meta. The rules are suspended.

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Response to JustABozoOnThisBus (Reply #91)

Mon Dec 17, 2012, 02:54 PM

93. I thought so too but the gun shit keeps floating upward

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Response to we can do it (Reply #93)

Mon Dec 17, 2012, 03:06 PM

96. Usually not too much

but I think Skinner and crew decided to let the topic into all the big forums after the tragedy. I'm sure they'll start enforcing the gungeon rules in a week or two.

Right now, emotions are too high to bother trying to contain.

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Response to JustABozoOnThisBus (Reply #96)

Mon Dec 17, 2012, 03:24 PM

98. I agree and hope its soon

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Response to RBInMaine (Original post)

Mon Dec 17, 2012, 02:54 PM

94. Bite me.

I'll sign whatever I fucking want. And anyone who thinks gun-lovers and gun humpers should be included in the Democratic party is a fucking idiot.

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Response to RBInMaine (Original post)

Mon Dec 17, 2012, 08:51 PM

102. Say Yes To Rid DU Of The Gun Enablers And Apologists

eom

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Response to RBInMaine (Original post)

Mon Dec 17, 2012, 08:56 PM

103. obvious extrapolations would be as if one were a member of Heritage Foundation..

If one is a member of a right-wing political action committee (the NRA), the obvious extrapolations would be as appropriate as if one belonged to Focus on the Family, Promise Keepers, or The Heritage Foundation.

Let's allow them our broad and open-armed support.... since we're all about liberty (in all caps), democracies (in all caps, too), and America (in all caps, part three).

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Response to RBInMaine (Original post)

Mon Dec 17, 2012, 09:10 PM

104. You forgot to mention that

the NRA is a right-wing Republican group, and anything that advances its agenda also advances the Republicans. Supporting Republicans is not allowed on DU, so why should the NRA be given a Democratic platform with which to spout its neoconservative bullshit?

My living room and privately owned web sites are NOT democracies, and there is no freedom of speech in these venues. "Censorship" already exists on DU as people are regularly banned for spouting right-wing and Republican bullshit. We ARE intolerant of neoconservatives and right-wingers, and rightfully so. Most of us do not wish to hold hands and sing Kumbaya with fucking right-wing Republicans. "Diversity" does not mean including lying, unbending, subversive assholes into one's group.

DU is not affiliated with the Democratic Party, but we are Democrats. Membership in the NRA, or agreement with their policies, promotes their agenda and is detrimental to Democrats and works against the goals and aims of DU.

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Response to RBInMaine (Original post)

Mon Dec 17, 2012, 09:22 PM

113. The GOP. The NRA. Fox News.

The only things keeping conservative politics on life support.

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Response to RBInMaine (Original post)

Mon Dec 17, 2012, 09:24 PM

114. I DESPISE the NRA,

...and have contempt for those I see driving with that little decal on their window.
However, I do support you on this issue.
DU needs the voices of responsible hunters, gun owners, and rural residents.
The mobs with the torches and pitchforks calling for the outright banning of guns,
and blaming every gun owner for the tragedy in Connecticut are off the deep end.

DURec!

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Response to RBInMaine (Original post)

Mon Dec 17, 2012, 09:32 PM

118. ok, here is why i said yes.

I am normally an ACLU level proponent of free speech; any attempt to ban speech is not onyl wrong, but will do nothing but make the undesired product desirable. However, the NRA is an organization that pretends to be a bunch of gun advocates, but is notorious for funding the GOP in any way, for any reason.

I am not saying throw the gun group out, or that democrats cannot have an opinion on guns that is opposite of most, but we can target a SPECIFIC organization whose motives seem to go way beyond guns.

Be a gun owner, fine, but do not help the NRA and have any illusions about the fact you are helping the right wing.

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Response to RBInMaine (Original post)

Mon Dec 17, 2012, 10:07 PM

123. You mean this NRA?

http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2010/05/05/AR2010050505211.html

The bill to close the gun loophole isn't on the radar of Democratic leaders, making it unlikely that it will reach the Senate floor. Still, Lieberman's hearing was fascinating because it forced the pro-gun crowd to take their philosophy to its logical extreme: Are they so absolute about the Second Amendment that they'd risk national security by fighting for the right of would-be terrorists to own guns? Alarmingly, they are.

The NRA, restating its opposition to the bill a few months ago, said it is all part of a conspiracy by "politicians who hate the Second Amendment" and who "think that more gun owners can be placed on the list over time." At Wednesday's hearing, a representative of the conservative Liberty Coalition made a similar argument: "The bill should be titled the Gun Owners Are Probably All Terrorists Act."

http://www.nraila.org/legislation/federal-legislation/2012/un-arms-trade-treaty-negotiations-underway.aspx

The UN is after our guns!!!

http://www.commercialappeal.com/news/2010/may/06/nra-lobbyist-spoke-gop-caucus-just-guns-bars-vote/

Guns and alcohol don't mix but not according to the NRA!

After laying out his NRA and gun-carry credentials, McCord said that rather than help lawmakers craft a reasonable, responsible bill allowing permit holders to go armed into genuine restaurants that serve alcohol as he and others have pushed for 11 years the NRA's "solution is to make it legal to carry guns anywhere alcohol is served... bars, beer joints, honky tonks."

Oh yeah and they support REPUBLICANS over DEMOCRATS not to mention that Wayne LaPierre is fucking lunatic.

http://www.nranews.com/pdf/Wayne_LaPierre_at_CPAC_Florida.pdf

All Fast and Furious gets is a presidential cover-up! Every member of
Congress who cares about truth and justice should stand up and
demand the immediate appointment of a special prosecutor.
Even as the Obama Administration launched that secret operation, it
was also working behind the scenes at the United Nations. In the
shadows, theyre working on an international Arms Trade Treaty that
could effectively ban or severely restrict civilian ownership of firearms
worldwide.
Ive been around long enough to know that the U.N. has little regard
for our Constitution and even less for the Second Amendment. But I
never thought Id see the day when an American White House would
tolerate a proposal that would literally gut one of our most
fundamental freedoms.

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Response to RBInMaine (Original post)

Mon Dec 17, 2012, 10:22 PM

124. I came up with a solution

We should hire "anonymous" (the one that hacked the Westboro site) to hack all 200,000 DU member's computers so we can find out which ones are members of the NRA. Then we can hire George W. Bush to oversee the executions.

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Response to RBInMaine (Original post)

Mon Dec 17, 2012, 10:40 PM

126. I do not believe that people should advocate for the NRA on this site.

I understand people use the NRA for discounts and certification purposes, however singing the NRA's praises here is a different story.

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Response to RBInMaine (Original post)

Mon Dec 17, 2012, 10:44 PM

128. Fuck the NRA

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Response to RBInMaine (Original post)

Mon Dec 17, 2012, 11:39 PM

130. Censorship does happen on this site...

We do not allow the promotion and support of repubs on this site.

The NRA stands for everything we are against.

I see no reason to allow for their support in any way.

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Response to RBInMaine (Original post)

Tue Dec 18, 2012, 12:39 AM

132. Locking.

Another OP along similar lines was locked earlier, so this one is going the same way...

http://www.democraticunderground.com/10022002543

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