.223 AR type assault weapon

[nadinbrzezinski]

Those are the words of the State Police Lieutenant doing the presser.

I think we have passed an important marker.

Oh and fair warning, you want to argue this is not an assault weapon...well, go argue with the state police.

[villager]

1. But but but... my internalized NRA talking point says I have to make a snarky comment...

...about the policeman's claim!

[likesmountains 52]

4. Baby killer a better name or is that too technical for ya?

[nadinbrzezinski]

5. So Sturmweber is a made up term?

This is the grand daddy. Translates to assault riffle.

Thanks for the NRA talking point.

[justanidea]

17. To be an assault rifle, it must be select-fire.

That is part of the definition of assault rifle.

A sturmgewehr is select fire.

Civilian AR-15s are not.

[nadinbrzezinski]

21. You are right

And the muzzle velocity and size of NATO round somehow is less damaging in a far more precise fire mode.

Look, we crossed the rubicon. I got the feeling these types of guns will be, rightly so, be heavily regulated it ain't even funny. Potential ROF, I want really tough background checks.

These are infantry riffles. So they can't do suppressive fire.

You want to keep them in civilian hands, cause, well they look gnarly and cool...work on the mechanism so they reduce their ROF significantly.

[Vox Moi]

30. Let's get real technical here ...

The AR 15 is no more than a variant of an M-16, with the select fire feature disabled.
It is a military design and optimized for killing people in firefights.
You may say that it is not an 'assault rifle' and be technically correct but 'Civilian?'
Exactly what civilian use is this rifle uniquely qualified for?

[-..__...]

27. "Sturmweber"?

IS a made up term, and it sure as fuck doesn't translate to anything... let alone an assault rifle.

OTOH... "Sturmgewehr" (or STG 44), does translate to "storm (or assault) rifle".

[zappaman]

28. Careful you could put an eye out with that grill.

And arguing with DU's resident expert on all things is not a good idea.
She is waaaaay tougher than you...

http://www.democraticunderground.com/?com=view_post&forum=1002&pid=1996780

[-..__...]

33. Thanks for the heads up!

I have my Sturmtongs and Assault Spatula at the ready...

[zappaman]

35. It's the HELLO KITTY apron that worries me... n/t

[-..__...]

38. I usually wear it sans the pants and underwear.

But, since this is a family friendly website, I thought it best to dress a little more modestly.

[Hissyspit]

9. Assault weapon is a made-up term.

But it's "not an assault rifle."

Do you even hear yourself?

[rhett o rick]

43. Arent all terms "made-up"? nm

[Hissyspit]

45. Of course. nt

[jpak]

13. A gun nut douchebag penis enlarger mass kid killer machine is a better term

yup

[Helen Reddy]

26. Okay, you made me chuckle. A bit n/t

[Bonhomme Richard]

23. OK. Then lets call it a "Pretend to Look Like a Military Weapon That Isn't for Shooters....

who Pretend They are Shooting a Real Military Weapon at Pretend Bad Guys"
And there you have it.

[ileus]

3. My ARs assault Coyotes and paper.

In the wrong hands rifles like these can assault humans...it's a sad world we live in these days.

[nadinbrzezinski]

6. Damn overkill for the coyotes.

[aquart]

10. Pretty harsh on the paper, too.

[nadinbrzezinski]

16. People used to use a perfectly serviceable varmint gun for coyotes (.22)

But no...

[Bonhomme Richard]

25. +1 It's for those that need 30 rounds to hit a target. n/t

[rhett o rick]

44. In my limited experience hunting deer with my dad, those that had the semi-autos had a

harder time killing a deer because they didnt take the time to make a good shot. They tended to point and start shooting.

[Lizzie Poppet]

31. .22LR is kinda-sorta acceptable for that use.

A bit light for what I'd consider an acceptable clean, fast kill probability on an animal that size, though. It's going to take a very precise shot to spare the animal a lot of suffering. Kinda like people who use .223 on mule deer...

[ProgressiveProfessor]

42. .22LR is underkill for coyotes at any range

.222 Swift or 270 are much more common varmint rounds.

[Lizzie Poppet]

29. Huh?

I'd call .223 right about in the sweet spot, actually. I mean...it was originally a "varmint" round.

[TheMastersNemesis]

7. When I Was In Vietnam The .223 M-16 Was A Formidable Weapon ----

I walked up to two enemy that our squad leader shot in a skirmish. They were not initially hit in a vital part. The bullets migrated through the rest of their body. I also had report of a 2nd Lieutenant who was hit in the foot by a .223. It nearly took his foot off.

If you are hit by one of these rounds the story is that you would wish to be dead because of all the damage and hurt it puts in. It is deadlier and has more stopping power than a .45 caliber. It is mean to stop and maim and kill and nothing else. It is a bullet that is actually acts like a hollow point that is still technically legal.

When I carried an M-16 and a Car-15 I was more concerned with shooting myself. Because I was on a landing zone we were never loaded. In the military you never load or lock and load unless there is a prospect for immediate action or you are on patrol. Why in the hell weapons are loaded anywhere in civilian life is beyond me. It takes less than 1 second to load a magazine. If your assailant is that close even if you are locked and loaded it is already too late to respond because they already have the "drop" on you.

[nadinbrzezinski]

11. Due to the shootouts in TJ, and thanks to the cartels

I saw what these guns, in both popular types, NATO and Warsaw Pact, do to the human body.

An eight year old ate lead from one in his tummy. It wasn't pretty, and we worked our asses to keep him alive. According to the surgeons, who did manage to keep him alive, his spleen was ground round.

It took months just of hospital care and many surgeries.

[zappaman]

24. Not to mention all those shootouts that you were involved in!

http://www.democraticunderground.com/?com=view_post&forum=1002&pid=1996780

Du's greatest and bravest warrior???

[madville]

8. Depends on the state/local laws

What is considered an assault weapon in CT might not be considered an assault weapon in many other states. Assault weapon is a term used to define whatever group of guns they wanted to include on their list in a given state.

Since the federal law expired it's up to the states to define what an assault weapon is for whatever law they have.

Like the poster above said, assault weapon and assault rifle should not be used interchangeably, two different things.

I didn't know AR-15 were allowed in CT, I thought they had strict weapons laws in place already?

[nadinbrzezinski]

12. Bought across state lines according to a media report.

And I can buy a Bushmaster in California, but limited on size of....clip.

[X_Digger]

19. No, you can build or buy a gun in CA with a larger "fixed" magazine.

Because the definition in California is worded such that an "assault weapon" is a firearm with a detachable magazine *and* X features, you can bypass it altogether by using a large fixed magazine. A magazine that can be removed by a tool, just like other fixed magazine guns.

Google "bullet button".

[X_Digger]

14. The thing about those made up definitions? They lead to some weird looking rifles..

For example, these are all California legal guns- not (per statute) "assault weapons":



If you see 'post ban' AR-15's, they have a pinned stock and flash hider, lowering the number of 'features' below the threshold.

[burnsei sensei]

36. Son of a bitch. I'd ban them in a second.

These are for killing one's fellow human beings and that function alone!

[X_Digger]

39. How? They aren't "assault weapons".

You've correctly identified the silliness in "assault weapon" legislation.

Bans based on model? Change the model name.

Bans based on combinations of features? Change the features.

This is why pro second amendment folks focus on the details- legislation is crafted based on those details.

Ban all semi-auto rifles? That would go over like a lead balloon with the Deer and Duck crowd, with their 50+ year old semi-automatics.

The rifles above are most often used in target competitions and hunting.

[FarCenter]

15. Sec. 53-202a. Assault weapons: Definition.

Sec. 53-202a. Assault weapons: Definition.
(a) As used in this section and sections 53-202b to 53-202k, inclusive, “assault weapon” means:
(1) Any selective-fire firearm capable of fully automatic, semiautomatic or burst fire at the option of the user or any of the other following specified semiautomatic firearms:


Bushmaster Auto Rifle and Auto Pistol

More at http://www.ct.gov/despp/lib/despp/slfu/firearms/assault_weapons.pdf

It's so easy to look this stuff up on the intertubes.

[nadinbrzezinski]

18. Go argue with the cop

[FarCenter]

20. Why argue? The cop is right. And a long list of semi-automatics are assault weapons in CT.

Connecticut law clearly defines the Bushmaster Automatic Rifle (AR) as an assault weapon.

See also http://www.jud.ct.gov/ji/criminal/glossary/assaultweapon.htm if you can't read a pdf.

Any selective-fire firearm capable of fully automatic, semiautomatic or burst fire at the option of the user or any of the following specified semiautomatic firearms: Algimec Agmi; Armalite AR-180; Australian Automatic Arms SAP Pistol; Auto-Ordnance Thompson type; Avtomat Kalashnikov AK-47 type; Barrett Light-Fifty model 82A1; Beretta AR-70; Bushmaster Auto Rifle and Auto Pistol; Calico models M-900, M-950 and 100-P; Chartered Industries of Singapore SR-88; Colt AR-15 and Sporter; Daewoo K-1, K-2, Max-1 and Max-2; Encom MK-IV, MP-9 and MP-45; Fabrique Nationale FN/FAL, FN/LAR, or FN/FNC; FAMAS MAS 223; Feather AT-9 and Mini-AT; Federal XC-900 and XC-450; Franchi SPAS-12 and LAW-12; Galil AR and ARM; Goncz High-Tech Carbine and High-Tech Long Pistol; Heckler & Koch HK-91, HK-93, HK-94 and SP-89; Holmes MP-83; MAC-10, MAC-11 Carbien type; Intratec TEC-9 and Scorpion; Iver Johnson Enforcer model 3000; Ruger Mini-14/5F folding stock model only; Scarab Skorpion; SIG 57 AMT and 500 Series; Spectre Auto Carbine and Auto Pistol; Springfield Armory BM59, SAR-48 and G-3; Sterling MK-6 and MK-7; Steyr AUG; Street Sweeper and Striker 12 revolving cylinder shotguns; USAS-12; USI Carbine, Mini-Carbine and Pistol; Weaver Arms Nighthawk; Wilkinson "Linda" Pistol.

[nadinbrzezinski]

22. I suspect this will become national before long

And that's a good thing.

[madville]

32. If they do anything look for a renewal of the 1994 AWB

I could see that having a chance of passing since it was an ineffective and almost meaningless piece of legislation, besides hurting Democrats for a decade.

Regulating the cosmetic appearance of assault weapons would not have prevented anything in this case. Pre-ban high capacity magazines were always available during the ban, they just cost a little bit more than they would have otherwise, there's billions of them out there.

[nadinbrzezinski]

46. Funny that you say that.

Talked to one of my local reps today.

They are getting the pressure.

I suggested to stay away from pure looks and go into actual mechanics. You want your bad ass looking gun? Sure, make sure we reduce the ROF. And I added smart weapons.

I hear a quiet change.

And will cost us dearly...well, I am not sure. You think folks who vote in blood red districts ill vote for dems...regardless...neither do I.

[malaise]

34. The gun lovers don't give a flying fugg

In their minds this too will pass..then they can wait for the next bad time to talk about slaughter weapons for ordinary citizens.

[John2]

37. Forget it,

they need those weapons to kill deer and squirrels. That is why they need assault or semi-assault weapons. Those animals are getting too rough for the hunters these days.

[X_Digger]

40. Many hunters are choosing such rifles because..

They're lighter, easier to maintain, easier to accessorize, and more durable.

[riqster]

41. If a hunter can shoot straight

...he or she wouldn't need a clip that big. Ditto for varmint control.

And a long gun like that is completely useless for defense within the average home. A shotgun or a handgun is far more useful, according the the cops I work with.

Bottom line: unless you think the black helicopters are coming, assault rifles are right up there with bullfrog tits for sheer uselessness.

And hell, even in that last situation, they won't do fuck-all against a serious military force.