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Sun Dec 16, 2012, 01:49 PM

Obama is not going to take your guns away. We are.

By we I mean the people in this country who are sick the world seeing their country as a asylum with heavily armed inmates. We are the people who are not going to repeat once again the cycle of horror, recrimination, empty words and a quick return to business as usual. We are the people who have had it with a political lobby masquerading as a users group that finds it politically expedient to put weapons of indiscriminate slaughter in the same category as legitimate implements of sport or self defense. We are the people who sadly had to have one more unspeakable horror before we decided to finally stand up to the NRA and its pawns in congress who quake in terror of their disapproval. I hope the president has our back. This insanity has to stop now.

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Reply Obama is not going to take your guns away. We are. (Original post)
FightingIrish Dec 2012 OP
Floyd_Gondolli Dec 2012 #1
Katashi_itto Dec 2012 #180
Maineman Dec 2012 #208
6502 Dec 2012 #185
NYC_SKP Dec 2012 #2
NYC_SKP Dec 2012 #3
Tutonic Dec 2012 #4
axetogrind Dec 2012 #19
JDPriestly Dec 2012 #37
axetogrind Dec 2012 #48
Atypical Liberal Dec 2012 #81
xtraxritical Dec 2012 #172
Lordquinton Dec 2012 #178
Atypical Liberal Dec 2012 #183
Lordquinton Dec 2012 #212
Bake Dec 2012 #201
spin Dec 2012 #205
secondwind Dec 2012 #38
Major Nikon Dec 2012 #60
Hugabear Dec 2012 #204
Major Nikon Dec 2012 #206
Hugabear Dec 2012 #211
Major Nikon Dec 2012 #213
DocMac Dec 2012 #152
axetogrind Dec 2012 #160
DocMac Dec 2012 #161
axetogrind Dec 2012 #162
Bake Dec 2012 #202
FailureToCommunicate Dec 2012 #89
axetogrind Dec 2012 #96
FailureToCommunicate Dec 2012 #112
axetogrind Dec 2012 #113
Wednesdays Dec 2012 #192
axetogrind Dec 2012 #195
hockeynut57 Dec 2012 #198
axetogrind Dec 2012 #199
Squinch Dec 2012 #90
Hoyt Dec 2012 #110
laundry_queen Dec 2012 #117
calimary Dec 2012 #147
Hoyt Dec 2012 #149
laundry_queen Dec 2012 #116
DarkDisturbed Dec 2012 #190
redstatebluegirl Dec 2012 #196
redstatebluegirl Dec 2012 #197
Blue Gardener Dec 2012 #181
Trunk Monkey Dec 2012 #24
TahitiNut Dec 2012 #33
NYC_SKP Dec 2012 #40
kestrel91316 Dec 2012 #139
forthemiddle Dec 2012 #210
cliffordu Dec 2012 #9
NYC_SKP Dec 2012 #15
oldbanjo Dec 2012 #49
Jonny Dec 2012 #5
NYC_SKP Dec 2012 #7
cliffordu Dec 2012 #10
NYC_SKP Dec 2012 #16
cliffordu Dec 2012 #17
NYC_SKP Dec 2012 #20
cliffordu Dec 2012 #118
Chorophyll Dec 2012 #52
Tuesday Afternoon Dec 2012 #77
Chorophyll Dec 2012 #150
laundry_queen Dec 2012 #121
Chorophyll Dec 2012 #151
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k2qb3 Dec 2012 #12
sanatanadharma Dec 2012 #22
oldbanjo Dec 2012 #56
laundry_queen Dec 2012 #122
atreides1 Dec 2012 #153
tblue Dec 2012 #23
Warren Stupidity Dec 2012 #36
NYC_SKP Dec 2012 #39
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oldbanjo Dec 2012 #74
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Lizzie Poppet Dec 2012 #107
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Lizzie Poppet Dec 2012 #129
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cherokeeprogressive Dec 2012 #41
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AlecBGreen Dec 2012 #43
Warren Stupidity Dec 2012 #47
AtheistCrusader Dec 2012 #72
Warren Stupidity Dec 2012 #87
Squinch Dec 2012 #100
AtheistCrusader Dec 2012 #105
Squinch Dec 2012 #115
AtheistCrusader Dec 2012 #119
Kennah Dec 2012 #163
Atypical Liberal Dec 2012 #86
Warren Stupidity Dec 2012 #88
Atypical Liberal Dec 2012 #95
Warren Stupidity Dec 2012 #126
Atypical Liberal Dec 2012 #134
Warren Stupidity Dec 2012 #135
Atypical Liberal Dec 2012 #137
zappaman Dec 2012 #91
AlecBGreen Dec 2012 #111
Warren Stupidity Dec 2012 #124
DocMac Dec 2012 #157
oldbanjo Dec 2012 #64
AtheistCrusader Dec 2012 #70
cantbeserious Dec 2012 #55
calimary Dec 2012 #71
NYC_SKP Dec 2012 #102
calimary Dec 2012 #140
NYC_SKP Dec 2012 #142
calimary Dec 2012 #171
L0oniX Dec 2012 #144
Pretzel_Warrior Dec 2012 #176
still_one Dec 2012 #6
etherealtruth Dec 2012 #8
slackmaster Dec 2012 #11
FightingIrish Dec 2012 #13
axetogrind Dec 2012 #21
CitizenPatriot Dec 2012 #25
axetogrind Dec 2012 #28
CitizenPatriot Dec 2012 #145
axetogrind Dec 2012 #146
CitizenPatriot Dec 2012 #148
axetogrind Dec 2012 #155
Hoyt Dec 2012 #132
slackmaster Dec 2012 #194
Hekate Dec 2012 #14
sellitman Dec 2012 #93
Squinch Dec 2012 #101
alcibiades_mystery Dec 2012 #18
Squinch Dec 2012 #103
freshwest Dec 2012 #26
Vox Moi Dec 2012 #27
UndahCovah Dec 2012 #29
Politicalboi Dec 2012 #30
dkf Dec 2012 #35
Chorophyll Dec 2012 #54
dkf Dec 2012 #58
Chorophyll Dec 2012 #62
dkf Dec 2012 #78
2ndAmForComputers Dec 2012 #79
Squinch Dec 2012 #106
dkf Dec 2012 #128
Squinch Dec 2012 #133
BlueCaliDem Dec 2012 #31
lib2DaBone Dec 2012 #32
oldbanjo Dec 2012 #84
laundry_queen Dec 2012 #130
libdem4life Dec 2012 #136
davidthegnome Dec 2012 #169
jeff47 Dec 2012 #177
kurtzapril4 Dec 2012 #193
Logical Dec 2012 #34
humbled_opinion Dec 2012 #42
oldbanjo Dec 2012 #99
Autumn Dec 2012 #45
Chorophyll Dec 2012 #50
SaveAmerica Dec 2012 #51
Mr Peabody Dec 2012 #53
madville Dec 2012 #57
rrneck Dec 2012 #59
baldguy Dec 2012 #61
axetogrind Dec 2012 #67
baldguy Dec 2012 #80
axetogrind Dec 2012 #83
baldguy Dec 2012 #92
axetogrind Dec 2012 #98
amandabeech Dec 2012 #167
Lizzie Poppet Dec 2012 #108
baldguy Dec 2012 #114
Lizzie Poppet Dec 2012 #123
baldguy Dec 2012 #125
DarkDisturbed Dec 2012 #188
baldguy Dec 2012 #215
Melatonin Dec 2012 #216
Warren Stupidity Dec 2012 #94
axetogrind Dec 2012 #104
apocalypsehow Dec 2012 #63
zappaman Dec 2012 #65
cantbeserious Dec 2012 #66
zappaman Dec 2012 #69
cantbeserious Dec 2012 #76
zappaman Dec 2012 #82
Sissyk Dec 2012 #68
loyalkydem Dec 2012 #73
rDigital Dec 2012 #75
Berserker Dec 2012 #85
flvegan Dec 2012 #109
quaker bill Dec 2012 #120
Hoyt Dec 2012 #131
quaker bill Dec 2012 #182
Hoyt Dec 2012 #186
kestrel91316 Dec 2012 #138
bvar22 Dec 2012 #141
NYC_SKP Dec 2012 #143
TheKentuckian Dec 2012 #156
FightingIrish Dec 2012 #159
Dems to Win Dec 2012 #154
brewens Dec 2012 #158
Kennah Dec 2012 #164
Tumbulu Dec 2012 #165
Care Acutely Dec 2012 #166
Llewlladdwr Dec 2012 #168
Paladin Dec 2012 #187
Hoopermazing Dec 2012 #170
world wide wally Dec 2012 #173
Skittles Dec 2012 #174
billh58 Dec 2012 #175
RBInMaine Dec 2012 #179
Codeine Dec 2012 #184
plethoro Dec 2012 #189
pop topcan Dec 2012 #200
Bake Dec 2012 #203
spin Dec 2012 #207
guardian Dec 2012 #214
FightingIrish Dec 2012 #217
ellisonz Dec 2012 #218

Response to FightingIrish (Original post)

Sun Dec 16, 2012, 01:54 PM

1. Hope you're right

 

Im already seeing a number of comments along these lines:

"We'll lose the senate if we act"

"The NRA is just too powerful"

"The federal government has no jurisdiction"

All of which is just what the NRA gun nuts want to hear besides being a steaming pile of horse shit.

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Response to Floyd_Gondolli (Reply #1)

Mon Dec 17, 2012, 06:11 AM

180. Want to own guns fine. Here is what military grade weapons owners need to do

Unless you belong to a well-regulated militia (which can be established), you should not be allowed to own a military grade weapon. Belonging to a well regulated militia means psych and IQ exams that you must pass. Along with mandatory military training and maneuvers, if you want the military grade guns, then a weekend a month, and two weeks in the field, just like the State guard.

Military grade Gun owners need to be liable for unlimited financial responsibility for damage caused by their guns.

If the weapon is stolen then your an accessory to whatever crime is committed with them no plea bargain, nothing.

For the general populace. No hand guns other then six-to 10 round mags for the general populace, and single bolt action hunting rifles.

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Response to Katashi_itto (Reply #180)

Mon Dec 17, 2012, 01:24 PM

208. Excellent ideas !!

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Response to Floyd_Gondolli (Reply #1)

Mon Dec 17, 2012, 08:32 AM

185. *WE*'re gonna take their guns way.. read all about it...

*WE*'re gonna take their guns away... read all about it...

<CALL TO ACTION!> Obama needs our help against the NRA!!!!

http://www.democraticunderground.com/10022008151

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Response to FightingIrish (Original post)

Sun Dec 16, 2012, 01:54 PM

2. Nobody is going to take anybody's guns away.

It's just not ever going to happen.

What a waste of energy, to even think that it could, much less should, ever be done.

eom

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Response to NYC_SKP (Reply #2)

Sun Dec 16, 2012, 01:56 PM

3. Clarification:

We should certainly confiscate then destroy weapons found in the hands of criminals and ex cons.

We should continue and strengthen and apply consistently background checks, etc.

And we should convict and imprison, universally, criminals who use guns (and give a break instead to pot growers and 3x bike thieves).

eom

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Response to NYC_SKP (Reply #3)

Sun Dec 16, 2012, 02:00 PM

4. You OK with your neighbor housing several semi-automatics?

Provided he doesn't have a criminal record? Think man!!!!

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Response to Tutonic (Reply #4)

Sun Dec 16, 2012, 03:02 PM

19. Why would I have a problem with it?

 

My wife and I own several semi autos and we've never used them illegally or negligently. Our neighbors also own semi autos, hasn't been a problem.

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Response to axetogrind (Reply #19)

Sun Dec 16, 2012, 03:44 PM

37. What good are all these guns?

Why would anyone want to spend their hard-earned money on fancy guns?

I don't get it. It's like collecting clocks or earmuffs. What good do you get out of them?

All the money spent on guns in this country could be used to help find a cure for cancer or something else that is useful?

The total uselessness of having so many guns . . .

I like to play the piano. I have one piano.

I have known people who had two pianos. It's kind of nice to play two-piano duets if a friend comes over. But more than two pianos. More than two of most things is just a waste.

Personally, I think people get addicted to owning guns, collecting guns, playing with guns. And if guns weren't so dangerous, that would be fine. But the addicts forget that the objects of their addiction are deadly. That's what the mother of this most recent murderer forgot. An addiction to guns can kill you.

No one can use more than one gun at a time. The more you have, the more likely an accident will happen.

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Response to JDPriestly (Reply #37)

Sun Dec 16, 2012, 04:01 PM

48. We both grew up with guns in our homes.

 

Both of our daughters are grown and gone. We both enjoy target shooting on weekends with different firearms.
My wife was robbed an beaten several years ago and she has vowed to be able to fight back the next time, so she now has a CHL.
We're not addicted in the traditional sense, we just enjoy the fine craftsmanship and our firearms have never hurt anyone.
We are both retired and have a lot of disposable income to spend.
We have never been, nor will we ever be, members of the NRA, instead, we're both members of the Liberal Gun Club.

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Response to JDPriestly (Reply #37)

Sun Dec 16, 2012, 04:53 PM

81. I use them!

 

I have a variety of guns, all for different purposes.

I have guns for self-defense. I have guns for target shooting. I have guns for hunting birds. I have guns for hunting deer. I have guns for hunting squirrels and rabbits. I have guns for shooting skeet. I have guns for competition shooting.

No one can use more than one gun at a time.

Which is why it is silly to be worried about someone who owns a lot of them.

The more you have, the more likely an accident will happen.

They are all stored in the same safe, so I don't see how that could be.

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Response to Atypical Liberal (Reply #81)

Mon Dec 17, 2012, 01:35 AM

172. Yeah, every person that ever went berserk in a rage and reached for a gun

 

was a "responsible" gun owner until that happened. Ban the guns and screw hunters too.

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Response to Atypical Liberal (Reply #81)

Mon Dec 17, 2012, 05:16 AM

178. You are correct

"The more you have, the more likely an accident will happen. "

You only need one for an accident to happen, a gun makes any situation it happens to be around into a potentially deadly situation in a very unique manner. it's like saying "Hi how are you" but instead it's "Hi, I have a killing machine, how are you?"

The reason to be worried about someone who has a lot of guns is because there is a dangerous mental type that tends to go along with it. (tends, leave your anecdotal "Not me" evidence at the door, plz).

I also highly dispute that a gun gives anyone a chance for defense, it introduces a element of danger to every day life, and statistics show that it won't help in 99% of instances where NRA types claim it is useful for,

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Response to Lordquinton (Reply #178)

Mon Dec 17, 2012, 07:35 AM

183. Oh come on.

 

I own about 20 firearms. So does my father. So did his. I'm an Eagle Scout. So is my father. (and no, I don't support their homophobia). I have a well-paying job. I have a functional family.

I am not a "dangerous mental type".

Heck, I shoot in competition that has categories for at least 5 different kinds of guns. Are all of us competitors "dangerous mental types?"

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Response to Atypical Liberal (Reply #183)

Mon Dec 17, 2012, 05:07 PM

212. Of course you are the responsable gun owner

It's never we who are not responsible, it's the people who get caught.

Plus you didn't read my post, where I said "Tends to, leave anecdotal "Not me" evidence at the door" because I'm talking general, think outside yourself for once.

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Response to JDPriestly (Reply #37)

Mon Dec 17, 2012, 01:08 PM

201. I know people who have eight or ten guitars.

Is that too many? Who gets to decide?

Not you, thanks very much.

Bake

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Response to JDPriestly (Reply #37)

Mon Dec 17, 2012, 01:18 PM

205. I can't understand why some people climb mountains or jump out of perfectly good planes ...

or chase small white balls around a golf course.

I have enjoyed target shooting handguns or 45 years. It's a sport that requires a lot of concentration but is very relaxing. I also have enjoyed reloading my own ammunition and tailoring the rounds to individual firearms in order to find the most accurate combination. I don't buy firearms just to collect them but instead to use them to punch holes in paper.

We all have different interests and that is what makes the world interesting.

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Response to axetogrind (Reply #19)

Sun Dec 16, 2012, 03:50 PM

38. You just joined DU today... you own "several semi-automatics"?? pray tell, WHY???????

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Response to secondwind (Reply #38)

Sun Dec 16, 2012, 04:32 PM

60. Hell in the South they are practically mandatory

The only semi-automatic I own is my grandfather's old single action police service pistol which I haven't fired in 20-30 years, but lots of people own them.

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Response to Major Nikon (Reply #60)

Mon Dec 17, 2012, 01:16 PM

204. Horseshit.

I've lived in the South almost my entire life, and I've never felt a need to own a gun.

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Response to Hugabear (Reply #204)

Mon Dec 17, 2012, 01:22 PM

206. Good for you

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Response to Major Nikon (Reply #206)

Mon Dec 17, 2012, 02:14 PM

211. You said that guns are practically mandatory in the South. That statement is horseshit.

I don't care what percentage of Southerners own guns. It doesn't make owning a gun any more or less mandatory.

I've lived here for more years than I care to admit. I have never once felt that I needed to own a gun.

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Response to Hugabear (Reply #211)

Mon Dec 17, 2012, 05:15 PM

213. Probably because it was intended to be hyperbole

Reading between the lines is big fun and opens yourself up to volumes of information you might have otherwise missed.

Just sayin'

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Response to secondwind (Reply #38)

Sun Dec 16, 2012, 08:27 PM

152. That poster joined today

and has a 21% chance of serving on a jury.

I think i'm going to cut back on the time I spend here.

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Response to DocMac (Reply #152)

Sun Dec 16, 2012, 09:22 PM

160. I'm sorry.

 

Was I rude to you or anyone else? Haven't I been pretty reasonable? I thought that I have expressed some good points on gun control, am I wrong?

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Response to axetogrind (Reply #160)

Sun Dec 16, 2012, 09:54 PM

161. Don't be sorry.

I just don't like the idea that people who have been here for a day have a 21% chance of serving on a jury.

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Response to DocMac (Reply #161)

Sun Dec 16, 2012, 09:59 PM

162. Here's what I'll do.

 

I'll refrain from jury duty for at least 2 weeks because you do have a valid point.
Is that fair?

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Response to secondwind (Reply #38)

Mon Dec 17, 2012, 01:09 PM

202. I have a 9mm semi-automatic pistol

And I'm not a criminal. Do you even know what semi-auto MEANS?

Bake

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Response to axetogrind (Reply #19)

Sun Dec 16, 2012, 04:57 PM

89. You joined DU on THIS day... to argue in favor of guns?!?

Sorry, but no welcome for you.

Just go away and

troll somewhere else

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Response to FailureToCommunicate (Reply #89)

Sun Dec 16, 2012, 05:02 PM

96. I'm not arguing in favor of guns, nor against them.

 

Go read some of my earlier posts and you will see that I'm in favor of some new gun control laws.
Why the rudeness and hostility?

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Response to axetogrind (Reply #96)

Sun Dec 16, 2012, 05:27 PM

112. I read 'em. While you sound reasonable enough, you are clearly

in favor of gun rights.

Joining today of all days and posting in defense of gun rights -even with reasonable restrictions...

Really, what kind of reaction did you expect?

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Response to FailureToCommunicate (Reply #112)

Sun Dec 16, 2012, 05:36 PM

113. I expected a civil conversation

 

as I have been towards everyone else here, including you.
Yes, I am in favor of the 2A with reasonable restrictions, as all rights are subject to. We need a National conversation on the 2A, not the hostility and rudeness.

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Response to FailureToCommunicate (Reply #89)

Mon Dec 17, 2012, 10:31 AM

192. This is what's wrong with DU

It's far too easy to just come in and screw with us. Hell, axetogrind might be a perfectly legit, polite poster and loyal Democrat, but I'm not comfortable about someone getting jury privileges upon first joining. No wonder the jury system is a farce.

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Response to Wednesdays (Reply #192)

Mon Dec 17, 2012, 10:56 AM

195. And I have said that out of fairness I won't serve on juries for at least 2 weeks.

 

I'll even go one further, I won't serve on any juries until I get at least 1000 posts. Is that fair enough?

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Response to axetogrind (Reply #195)

Mon Dec 17, 2012, 12:15 PM

198. bigotry has a lot of faces

axe, the rules apply the same to you as to someone who has a million posts. a large amount of posts do not necessarily indicate a large amount of intelligence or higher morals, don't be brow beaten just because some has 5 figure post amounts. extremism on either side of the fence is indefensiblee

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Response to hockeynut57 (Reply #198)

Mon Dec 17, 2012, 12:19 PM

199. Thank you.

 

I'm new here and I am loath to piss people off so until I get the hang of this, I'm going to tread lightly.
Actually I a pretty mild mannered person.

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Response to axetogrind (Reply #19)

Sun Dec 16, 2012, 04:58 PM

90. Mrs. Lanza had never used her guns illegally or negligently either. It was never a problem for her

neighbors either. Until yesterday, when her responsible guns slaughtered 28 people including herself and 20 children.

Hope all you responsible gun owners enjoy your hobby enough to make it worth that.

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Response to Squinch (Reply #90)

Sun Dec 16, 2012, 05:22 PM

110. Yep, Loughner, Holmes, Stawicki, Zimmerman, and most other killers were perfectly law-abiding until


they started shooting innocent people.

Most guns used even by criminals start out as legal purchases. Then, the get stolen or some supposedly law-abiding gun owner sells one for a fistful of cash without a background check because he is too callous and cheap to go to a licensed dealer.

We just need to start clamping down on those into guns for the good of society. The sooner we start the better.

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Response to Hoyt (Reply #110)

Sun Dec 16, 2012, 05:46 PM

117. + 1 nt

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Response to Hoyt (Reply #110)

Sun Dec 16, 2012, 07:34 PM

147. We should start YESTERDAY!! Strike while the iron is hot. Emotions are with OUR side now.

I'd go for it NOW before the funeral Masses even begin for all those little victims. I'd exploit EVERY bit of the mourning and sadness to get this jump-started. Yes. Exploit. And I'm sorry to have to get crass, but I've never made a secret of the fact that I'm as Machiavellian as the next guy. And if we can use this horror to push for legislation that truly does save lives and does benefit the greater good, why shouldn't we?

There may be no better time than NOW!

I'll bet ANY of those parents who are mourning a murdered CHILD from this massacre would tell anyone who'd listen that if they could do nothing else at this point, they'd want to try to keep OTHER parents from going through this agony. They'd want to move Heaven and Earth, if they could, to make sure that this nightmare never befalls any other mom or dad in America. Every parent I've ever seen in recent memory, who's had to live through this kind of ordeal where their beloved innocent child becomes a murder victim, from John Walsh onward, has said a version of the same thing. Especially when they embrace activism. What they want more than anything, if they can never get their precious baby back, then they want to do whatever they can to prevent this from happening to ANY other parent, and KEEP THIS FROM HAPPENING AGAIN.

How have we been doing so far? Not very good, judging from the track record we see. TWO multiple shootings in the same week - the first one in a mall early in the week, and Friday, Newtown, Connecticut. And, then, the day after the Connecticut school massacre, a woman is shot to death outside the Excalibur Hotel in Las Vegas.

WTF???????

And don't forget what Howard Dean said during the 2004 campaign, and has continued to preach: the only way you lose is if you don't try. So what if it's a high mountain to climb? Things change. Attitudes can and do change also. Look how much talk and coverage and attention there now is, regarding the whole notion of significant change that manifested itself in this last election. Look how fast public opinion is tilting toward acceptance of marriage equality. There's a majority now, which is a change just from a few years ago. I forget how many years but I do remember it was under five. That's an AMAZING shift in the attitude of the collective and it's being so noted in the media. That used to be a high mountain, too - widely regarded as pretty unsurmountable. Religiosos were against it, emphatically and extremely. Now? I recently saw some poll numbers on "Hardball" (or some such program) that showed young church-goers comprised the highest percentage of support for marriage equality.

So why can't we seize this opportunity when public opinion is running strongly in favor of SOME kind of stepped-up gun control? SOMETHING!

Why can't we do something that would TRULY honor the innocent dead? DO it for them, and in their memory. So their deaths would not remain merely senseless. So they didn't die in vain.

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Response to calimary (Reply #147)

Sun Dec 16, 2012, 08:05 PM

149. I agree completely. NRA and gun abusers everywhere hope it merely blows away.

Or that some token legislation passes.

The way to stop it in its tracks is to prohibit transfer of guns. Those who've stocked up in hopes of profiting would be left holding hunks of metal.

Yes, Gungeoneers, I know some criminals will still get them. In fact, I suspect Gungeoneers will be in line to sell to anyone with the money.

Australia did it in 1996.

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Response to Squinch (Reply #90)

Sun Dec 16, 2012, 05:45 PM

116. That's it in a nutshell, isn't it?

But gun nuts, I find, don't tend to be very forward-looking in regards to these kind of things.

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Response to Squinch (Reply #90)

Mon Dec 17, 2012, 10:13 AM

190. All guns

 

I live the mountains, I use a firearm to regularly defend myself from wildlife. I've shot a rabid opossum that could have bit my son.

Are you going to take my firearm too?

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Response to DarkDisturbed (Reply #190)

Mon Dec 17, 2012, 11:06 AM

196. Did you shoot it with an automatic weapon

Or a rifle like my Dad did on the farm? Big difference in my opinion.
I do not think all of us want all guns banned, and I do not think we can get that done, BUT automatic weapons with huge clips need to be banned NOW!!!!! Gun shows and internet purchases need to go away. We need to do better background checks NOW.

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Response to DarkDisturbed (Reply #190)


Response to axetogrind (Reply #19)

Mon Dec 17, 2012, 06:15 AM

181. I'm sure the shooter's mother

Considered herself a "responsible" gun owner. That didn't turn out so well for her.

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Response to Tutonic (Reply #4)

Sun Dec 16, 2012, 03:18 PM

24. Odds are he has fewer than I do

 

Next question?

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Response to Tutonic (Reply #4)

Sun Dec 16, 2012, 03:37 PM

33. No problem at all. He has SEVERAL semi-automatic handguns and a tactical shotgun.

He's a cop.


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Response to Tutonic (Reply #4)

Sun Dec 16, 2012, 03:51 PM

40. Yes, I don't have a problem with it. nt

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Response to Tutonic (Reply #4)

Sun Dec 16, 2012, 06:49 PM

139. Only if he keeps them securely locked up in a heavy duty gun safe at all times when

not traveling to or from a gun range or shop or repair person. There is no earthly reason to have semi-automatics sitting around in one's home. Anyone who thinks there is, is probably a drug dealer or simply insane.

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Response to Tutonic (Reply #4)

Mon Dec 17, 2012, 01:41 PM

210. I am quite sure that many of my neighbors own them already

Do you have any idea what it is like in rural America? It is not a bunch of "gun nuts", or NRA supporting teabaggers, etc. It is you and me, it is fellow DUers, it is our teachers, and pastors, and policemen, etc.
In fact, a local Sheriff deputy is my husbands gun dealer (federally licensed).

Although it would have not changed my vote, before the election I heard the great lie over and over again that Obama was gonna take away our guns. Now after I spent hours on face book, face to face, email chains, etc. trying to debunk that rumor, don't make them right.

I am truly afraid that this could be the end of rural America Democratic support.

BTW, I live in an small to average size community in mid Wisconsin (around 7,000). In the past 20 years I can honestly remember two murders in this area. Neither had a gun used (one was a knife, one was a hammer). I can almost guarantee that 75% of homes in my area have at least one gun, and most have more than that.

And no I am not necessarily against some sensible gun laws (private access to the NCIS database, possibly limiting the size of magazines, etc). I am not defending the NRA, I am defending my 2 nd Ammendment rights.

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Response to NYC_SKP (Reply #3)

Sun Dec 16, 2012, 02:31 PM

9. Chill on the leniency for the 3X bike thieves.

'Mkay????

Bike thieves should be beaten in place, left to rot on the side of the road.

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Response to cliffordu (Reply #9)

Sun Dec 16, 2012, 02:56 PM

15. I kinda have to agree....

I had a high end Fuji taken in the 80's. This road bike was SWEET-- I'd freed it up from a parking post on Sullivan Street off Bleeker, closer to W. 3rd (I lived at 227 Sullivan, was a super there, another story).

Anyway, I freed up this frame and took it to the guy on Canal Street for a full rebuild, student discount.

A beautiful bike, I think I got three or four years service.

Until some mother fucker took it while parked at the engineering building at Cooper Union on Astor Place.

So, yeah, beaten in place and left to rot, I can live with that.

I bought a gun safe Friday, had nothing to do with the tragedy, it was on sale.

It'll be a good place for passports, valuables, and, of course, my scary arsenal of single shot .410s and .22 plinkers!



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Response to NYC_SKP (Reply #3)

Sun Dec 16, 2012, 04:03 PM

49. Why should a thief get a break.

That's one trouble I'm having right now, where I live they are letting the thieves go free.

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Response to NYC_SKP (Reply #2)

Sun Dec 16, 2012, 02:06 PM

5. No Thank You Mr. Gun Enthusiast

 


This kind of negativism is just what we don't need anymore.

Are you a DU member or a visiting conservative? Just asking....

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Response to Jonny (Reply #5)

Sun Dec 16, 2012, 02:18 PM

7. Hahahaha!

Sez the 20 post member....

To a former DU moderator.....

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Response to NYC_SKP (Reply #7)

Sun Dec 16, 2012, 02:31 PM

10. See you met my sock.....

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Response to cliffordu (Reply #10)

Sun Dec 16, 2012, 02:57 PM

16. I like that he used the formal term, "Mr.", because if not I'd have to...

...well, you know....

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Response to NYC_SKP (Reply #16)

Sun Dec 16, 2012, 02:57 PM

17. You are a cruel one, mr. Skp, oh yes you are.

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Response to cliffordu (Reply #17)

Sun Dec 16, 2012, 03:04 PM

20. Next time you're in town, lets go shooting...

I haven't been for years, but the 50 mile radius is littered with safe places to shoot!

Just don't let yourself be a target!

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Response to NYC_SKP (Reply #20)

Sun Dec 16, 2012, 05:46 PM

118. ME: Six foot, 200lb asshole with a mood disorder, on a bicycle, dressed in yellow,

yelling at traffic.

What could POSSIBLY go wrong??

I'll go shoot with ya. But we have to do it before I get liquored up.

I only play with the dynamite after cocktails.

Unless you have an RPG.

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Response to NYC_SKP (Reply #7)

Sun Dec 16, 2012, 04:08 PM

52. Well, the 4000-ish post member agrees with him.

Moderator, schmoderator. Dead first-graders trump your gun fascination.

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Response to Chorophyll (Reply #52)

Sun Dec 16, 2012, 04:51 PM

77. disgusting. what a callous comment.

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Response to Tuesday Afternoon (Reply #77)

Sun Dec 16, 2012, 08:10 PM

150. Seriously? I've been crying my brains out for two days.

I'm a little worn out. Alert on me if you like.

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Response to Chorophyll (Reply #52)

Sun Dec 16, 2012, 05:49 PM

121. There has been at least one mod

that was later PPR'd. Anyone who pulls out the "I'm a better DUer than you b/c I was a MOD" card, makes me go hmmmmmmm.

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Response to laundry_queen (Reply #121)

Sun Dec 16, 2012, 08:13 PM

151. I'm freaking heartsick at the gun-loving on this site.

And the superior attitude that the gun-lovers take. I just don't understand it.

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Response to NYC_SKP (Reply #7)

Mon Dec 17, 2012, 10:17 AM

191. Just because you were a moderator doesn't mean you deserve to be here

It also doesn't mean you were a good moderator. You're trolling for the NRA, and your timing couldn't be worse. Go celebrate your past moderating victories elsewhere. Just go.

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Response to Jonny (Reply #5)

Sun Dec 16, 2012, 02:33 PM

12. It won't work.

Doesn't matter what laws you pass in an attempt to eliminate guns from the equation, the people who own most of the guns won't comply. In the current political environment things could get really ugly. The Heller decision reinforced the fact that that isn't a viable option in this country from a legal perspective, let alone a practical one.

It would, if it were successful legally and politically, which it can't be, completely derail the Democratic agenda and dramatically increase the violence. The last AWB only cost the Dems the congress in the '90s and the presidency in 2000, mostly because it was completely ineffective and simply a nuisance to gun owners who actually jumped through the hoops to comply with it. Oh and it increased demand for these weapons by an order of magnitude also.

I've read a number of posts here advocating that we need to "do something, anything" to make ourselves feel better but I disagree.

We need to do the right things, things that have some chance of improving the situation rather than making it worse.

The way we really need to approach this IMO is to get the social and economic situation in this country under control, and give people the tools they need for peaceful conflict resolution and coping with loss and trauma. These shooters are angry suicides, people who feel they have something to live for don't do these things, healthy people don't turn off their humanity and kill little children. Obama is a lot smarter than people think.

What we really have a problem with in this country isn't guns or mental illness, it's desperate, angry adolescence, and I'm not just talking about the teenagers. Instead of a fruitless push to take peoples guns away we should be asking Americans to secure their guns, most do, and those who don't are likely to reconsider after an event like this.

I'm not a visiting conservative, I just think this issue is the way liberals are going to snatch defeat from the jaws of victory, much like the conservatives did with their foreign policy, only a lot worse.

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Response to k2qb3 (Reply #12)

Sun Dec 16, 2012, 03:09 PM

22. Honest gtun owners who will not obey the laws? Unthinkable...

...But you are correct of course, it "Doesn't matter what laws you pass in an attempt to eliminate guns from the equation, the people who own most of the guns won't comply" because they are un-American gun idolaters and borderline criminals , not responsible mature citizens.

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Response to sanatanadharma (Reply #22)

Sun Dec 16, 2012, 04:27 PM

56. You take the guns from the bad guy then

talk to me, also the police are not required to protect the people they only protect the people that they arrest. If your neighbor is being raped and you call the police there is no requirement for the police to come. You are own you own according to the law.

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Response to sanatanadharma (Reply #22)

Sun Dec 16, 2012, 05:50 PM

122. Exactly right and illustrates the point. nt

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Response to sanatanadharma (Reply #22)

Sun Dec 16, 2012, 08:28 PM

153. Let me understand this

People who own guns are un-American and borderline criminals...in your opinion?

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Response to k2qb3 (Reply #12)

Sun Dec 16, 2012, 03:17 PM

23. So it's easier to be rid of trauma, anger, and mental illness?

Get outa here. You can't outlaw stress and you can't make everybody capable of only peaceful resolution to every problem. How I wish we could. Okay, so let's say we accomplish that somehow. No trauma for anybody anywhere. It will take years abd how many deaths? In the meantime, let's get the guns under 'well-regulated' control.

Which child's life is worth anyone's 'right' to own a gun?

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Response to NYC_SKP (Reply #2)

Sun Dec 16, 2012, 03:40 PM

36. Yes we can.

We will win this fight. Your semi-auto pistols and rifles are going to be put under strict regulation. Your infatuation with guns has resulted in a disastrous social situation that needs to be addressed, and since the whole lot of you are too immature to face that fact, we will do it for you.

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Response to Warren Stupidity (Reply #36)

Sun Dec 16, 2012, 03:50 PM

39. Would you like to discuss it or just resort to bullshit terms like "infatuation" that are divisive?

How do you propose to remove 300+ million guns from the country without invoking a real police state worse than we now have.

Or is that a price worth paying to you?

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Response to NYC_SKP (Reply #39)

Sun Dec 16, 2012, 03:54 PM

44. I'm sorry if you find your infatuation with guns called for what it is offensive,

But that is not my problem.

1 . Make possession of high capacity magazines a federal felony with a minimum sentence of five years. Allow a one year grace period for enforcement.

Or we could wait until there are 600,000,000 weapons and daily mass murders, and start then.

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Response to Warren Stupidity (Reply #44)

Sun Dec 16, 2012, 04:49 PM

74. I'm sure that I can reload with stripper clips

faster that you could change a magazine. I don't have high capacity Magazines and I don't need them.

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Response to oldbanjo (Reply #74)

Sun Dec 16, 2012, 05:03 PM

97. Good for you.

The technicality arguments for why we should do nothing are just tired NRA talking points. We won't stop all mass murders, but we might stop some of them.

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Response to Warren Stupidity (Reply #44)

Sun Dec 16, 2012, 05:13 PM

107. Why thank you, Dr. Stupidity, for that free psychiatric diagnosis!

Curious: where did you do your residency?

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Response to Lizzie Poppet (Reply #107)

Sun Dec 16, 2012, 06:13 PM

127. Florida University.

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Response to Warren Stupidity (Reply #127)

Sun Dec 16, 2012, 06:18 PM

129. "Florida University?" Really?

How very odd that there seems to be precisely zero online presence for a university by that name...

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Response to Lizzie Poppet (Reply #129)

Mon Dec 17, 2012, 01:29 PM

209. Look it up using the initials. You'll find something, I'm sure.

.

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Response to Warren Stupidity (Reply #36)

Sun Dec 16, 2012, 03:52 PM

41. Strict regulation is NOT the same as confiscation.

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Response to cherokeeprogressive (Reply #41)

Sun Dec 16, 2012, 03:57 PM

46. Strict regulation would look a lot like confiscation.

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Response to Warren Stupidity (Reply #36)

Sun Dec 16, 2012, 03:54 PM

43. I own a .40 semi-auto pistol

I am not immature. If you want people to take you and your argument seriously, please speak like an adult.

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Response to AlecBGreen (Reply #43)

Sun Dec 16, 2012, 03:59 PM

47. If its magazine capacity is larger than around 5 shots, it doesn't belong in civilian hands.

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Response to Warren Stupidity (Reply #47)

Sun Dec 16, 2012, 04:49 PM

72. Says you.

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Response to AtheistCrusader (Reply #72)

Sun Dec 16, 2012, 04:57 PM

87. Excellent observation.

Works in Canada, by the way.

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Response to AtheistCrusader (Reply #72)

Sun Dec 16, 2012, 05:07 PM

100. Says a couple of dozen dead 6 year olds.

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Response to Squinch (Reply #100)

Sun Dec 16, 2012, 05:11 PM

105. The AWB in your sig line only limited them to 10.

And only prevented the manufacture of new mags of high capacity.

Try again.

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Response to AtheistCrusader (Reply #105)

Sun Dec 16, 2012, 05:41 PM

115. Gosh. You're a master of the technicalities. And twenty 6 year olds are still dead.

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Response to Squinch (Reply #115)

Sun Dec 16, 2012, 05:47 PM

119. Sorry I know the in's and outs of the issue and the proposed legislation to address it.

My bad.

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Response to Squinch (Reply #115)

Sun Dec 16, 2012, 11:25 PM

163. Regulate private sales, impose the CT AW ban on the nation, and there'd still be 20 dead 6 year olds

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Response to Warren Stupidity (Reply #47)

Sun Dec 16, 2012, 04:56 PM

86. Even my great-grandfather's Colt Woodsman .22 pistol?

 

It holds 10 rounds.

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Response to Atypical Liberal (Reply #86)

Sun Dec 16, 2012, 04:57 PM

88. Yup.

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Response to Warren Stupidity (Reply #88)

Sun Dec 16, 2012, 05:01 PM

95. OK what about my replica 1858 New Army Remington?

 

It's a 6-shot revolver. You have to load the black powder and balls in one end, and place caps on the nipples.

Is that out, too?

I just bought myself one for Christmas for competition shooting.

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Response to Atypical Liberal (Reply #95)

Sun Dec 16, 2012, 06:02 PM

126. Collector items can be separately regulated.

The details can be worked out. As a museum piece it does not need to be operable.

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Response to Warren Stupidity (Reply #126)

Sun Dec 16, 2012, 06:29 PM

134. It's not a museum piece, it's a competition gun.

 

I shoot competitively with it. It definitely needs to operate for me to compete with it.

I'm just trying to get an idea here of how many of my guns are on the chopping block.

What about my muzzle loaders?

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Response to Atypical Liberal (Reply #134)

Sun Dec 16, 2012, 06:37 PM

135. Then no problem. See Canada.

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Response to Warren Stupidity (Reply #135)

Sun Dec 16, 2012, 06:43 PM

137. Sounds pretty easy, but I don't see how this is very restrictive.

 

Looks like all you have to do is pay $75 and take a one-day class to get your license and you can buy handguns of any kind, let alone black powder weapons.

http://www.howtogetagun.ca/

Steve

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Response to Atypical Liberal (Reply #86)

Sun Dec 16, 2012, 04:58 PM

91. Yep! Gotta go!

They are taking all the guns.
I guess I will say goodbye to my revolver.
Oh well...

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Response to Warren Stupidity (Reply #47)

Sun Dec 16, 2012, 05:22 PM

111. thanks for sharing your opinion

I disagree.

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Response to AlecBGreen (Reply #111)

Sun Dec 16, 2012, 05:53 PM

124. The children of Newtown would have liked an opportunity to have an opinion.

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Response to Warren Stupidity (Reply #124)

Sun Dec 16, 2012, 08:50 PM

157. I don't bother with people like the ones

badgering you on this thread. They understand what you're saying. I'm going to put them on ignore, and when that list gets to 100, i'm leaving this site.

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Response to Warren Stupidity (Reply #36)

Sun Dec 16, 2012, 04:41 PM

64. I have hunted with Browning auto rifles and

shotguns sense 1969, if you think people are going to turn these guns into the police you must be crazy, the police would take them home. Over the last few years a lot of police, sheriffs included, have been arrested for taking confiscated firearms home. My neighbor was mfg meth, I called the law, the law did nothing, one person in that house is a cop, I bought a new gun and ammo because of the drug traffic that this created, I expected a shoot out at any time, I finally got lucky the Bank Foreclosed on their property, now I have a good neighbor. In 2 miles there are 5 people on this road. Also 12000 acres of woods to hunt.

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Response to Warren Stupidity (Reply #36)

Sun Dec 16, 2012, 04:48 PM

70. I'm ok with regulation and registration.

I own a shitload of guns, most of them semi-auto. I have no problem registering them, I have no problem with background checks on private sales. I have no problems with lots of regulations.

I have problems with outright elimination of them, per the OP.

So take it up with him or her.

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Response to NYC_SKP (Reply #2)

Sun Dec 16, 2012, 04:12 PM

55. I Disagree - Americans Can Make This Happen - We Have Been Pushed To Far - Stop The Slaughter Today!

eom

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Response to NYC_SKP (Reply #2)

Sun Dec 16, 2012, 04:49 PM

71. That's the VERY FIRST POINT we need to - pardon the pun - "target."

Last edited Sun Dec 16, 2012, 06:56 PM - Edit history (1)

That it's useless. No point in even trying. It's just not gonna happen. Sanctity of second amendment.

THAT is the first part of the mindset we need to focus on overcoming. As long as we give in before even trying to fight this, we LOSE before the battle's even begun.

You won't see me being part of that.

We need to REFRAME the issue and aggressively so. Put the gun nuts on the defensive. Start equating wanton unregulated unmanaged gun-access to accessory to mass murder. Accomplices. Enablers. We HAVE TO start reframing it into something UNCOOL. Make it worth shunning, even. Make it unacceptable and unendorsable in polite company. I realize we'll be swimming upstream against the ever-lovin' cowboy mentality that pervades this country. It has to start being placed on a scale, against the right of innocent school children to live through the day's class schedule - versus an individuals's pigheaded "right" to own their own personal individual death panel. Start casting it in a negative, undesirable light. PUT THEM ON THE DEFENSIVE. Put it point blank, as painful as can be - "so your right to be an accessory to, or an enabler of, mass murder trumps a five-year-old's right to live through the average school day??????" Because I tell you, THAT is what it comes down to. 'Cause THAT is what guns do.

And to the lame-ass argument that car wrecks cause more deaths than gun violence. Well the hell with that! CARS were NEVER conceived or designed as instruments for killing. That is not their prime reason for existence. Neither is that true for knives - which can also trim, sculpt, carve, slice bread and cheese and meat and cakes and pies, prepare food. They aren't strictly-speaking assault or attack weapons. They aren't even exclusively weapons. ON THE OTHER HAND, WHAT ELSE IS A GUN FOR? OTHER THAN KILLING??? Okay, so you MIGHT if you're lucky and there isn't panic and total chaos all over the place, you MIGHT be able to get in a good clean shot at the bad guy with the bigger badder fire power than you've got. What are the odds, unless you're in the movies? You're still just as likely to hit an innocent bystander or hurt yourself in the process. And that's still a death, so you still used it to kill. I'll bet most of these gun-lovers also call themselves "pro-life." Well, if you advocate for unlimited access to any gun and any amounts of guns you feel like it's your God-given right to have, then you can't possibly call yourself "pro-life." Loving and giving that high a priority to guns automatically negates that. 'Cause all guns are designed for, quite basically, is killing.

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Response to calimary (Reply #71)

Sun Dec 16, 2012, 05:09 PM

102. Actually, I want to give in, I honestly accept the impossible and embrace what CAN work.

Pushing for the impossible dissapearance of firearms is NUTTY!

It's a waste of energy, let's put our energy instead to action items that are realistic.

We are on the same side for results, we differ on how to get there.

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Response to NYC_SKP (Reply #102)

Sun Dec 16, 2012, 06:59 PM

140. Maybe it should be like bargaining. Pardon the pun again - shoot for the moon. Then maybe you'll

at least be able to reach as high as Earth orbit. Personally, I'd go for being a hard-ass and starting at the most draconian position possible and "allow" them to bargain me down a little bit. To use an altitude metaphor - I sure as hell wouldn't start at the top of an ant-hill. Rather, I might start at the planet Jupiter and ease away, back toward Earth, from a point THAT far away. Then the gun nuts may still feel, psychologically, like they gained something, but WE will have made a MAJOR inroad, at long last.

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Response to calimary (Reply #140)

Sun Dec 16, 2012, 07:11 PM

142. Shoot for Mars, settle for the moon,

and if all we get is the stratosphere, we're still miles further than we've gone before!

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Response to NYC_SKP (Reply #142)

Mon Dec 17, 2012, 01:25 AM

171. SO much more succinct than I was able to manage!

That is it in the proverbial nutshell!

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Response to NYC_SKP (Reply #2)

Sun Dec 16, 2012, 07:22 PM

144. Irrational knee jerk nuts have temporarily taken over DU and thankfully that will not be sustained.

Hang in there.

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Response to NYC_SKP (Reply #2)

Mon Dec 17, 2012, 02:35 AM

176. we will think big. even if we only take away 50% of them it will be a victory

 

people are having a harder and harder time justifying need for guns.

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Response to FightingIrish (Original post)

Sun Dec 16, 2012, 02:13 PM

6. It always had more to do with congress than the president, and since we elect both, you are correct

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Response to FightingIrish (Original post)

Sun Dec 16, 2012, 02:27 PM

8. I hope so

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Response to FightingIrish (Original post)

Sun Dec 16, 2012, 02:32 PM

11. Actually, you would have to employ heavily armed law enforcement people to do that

 

Guns as a solution to guns, with a literal police state as the end result.

Zero points awarded.

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Response to slackmaster (Reply #11)

Sun Dec 16, 2012, 02:44 PM

13. By taking their guns away I don't mean anything that stupid

I mean getting the people that represent us to restrict the lethality of weapons available to any citizen. We had some of that and the Bush administration let it go away. We also need to change a culture that sees pulling a trigger as a form of expression.

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Response to FightingIrish (Reply #13)

Sun Dec 16, 2012, 03:05 PM

21. I hate to burst your bubble

 

but it wasn't the boosh admin. that let it go away, it was the Congress that let the AWB sunset, both Dems and repugs refused to renew it, boosh said that if it made it to his desk, he would sign it.

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Response to axetogrind (Reply #21)

Sun Dec 16, 2012, 03:24 PM

25. well wait a minute there pardner

Bush SAID that when he was running, but that's not exactly how he governed.

He laid down and let his GOP House fail to bring the ban up for a vote.

he SAID that to cover for:

http://www.ontheissues.org/celeb/george_w__bush_gun_control.htm


"If the NRA could pick a candidate, it would undoubtedly be George W. Bush. He has been a strong ally of the organization in Texas. Recent attempts to distance himself are assumed to be merely tactical. Bush follows the standard gun-owner’s line: he wants tougher penalties against gun-toting criminals, but no more regulations for worthy citizens with a pistol by the bed. He places the blame for America’s frequent gun massacres on negligent parents, a “wave of evil” and the culture of violence. As president, he would:
would bring in no new gun controls, except possibly tougher penalties for criminals using guns
opposes mandatory safety locks (but supports voluntary ones)
supports concealed-weapon laws
favors instant background checks (rather than three-day waiting periods) in shops and at gun shows
would restrict lawsuits against gun makers, which he has deterred in Texas"

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Response to CitizenPatriot (Reply #25)

Sun Dec 16, 2012, 03:28 PM

28. I'm not arguing with you about that.

 

But the fact is that the Congress refused to renew it, and that included Dems not voting for it's renewal.
But it was already a foregone conclusion that a renewal of the AWB was going to fail.

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Response to axetogrind (Reply #28)

Sun Dec 16, 2012, 07:26 PM

145. no, Dems didn't NOT vote for renewal

It expired and the GOP majority refused to bring it up for a vote.

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Response to CitizenPatriot (Reply #145)

Sun Dec 16, 2012, 07:31 PM

146. I believe you're right

 

but it still wasn't going to pass anyway.

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Response to axetogrind (Reply #146)

Sun Dec 16, 2012, 07:45 PM

148. Correct.

And Dems lost their seats when fighting the NRA. That is the real problem. That and the Koch $$$$$ funneled into NRA to attack Democrats.

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Response to CitizenPatriot (Reply #148)

Sun Dec 16, 2012, 08:36 PM

155. And the Citizens United bullshit ruling.

 

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Response to slackmaster (Reply #11)

Sun Dec 16, 2012, 06:23 PM

132. Ah, so you admit that the gun cultists aren't as law-abiding as we are led to believe.

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Response to Hoyt (Reply #132)

Mon Dec 17, 2012, 10:54 AM

194. People like me won't be a problem, Hoyt. I'll comply with whatever the law says.

 

The tough part will be taking the guns away from violent criminals.

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Response to FightingIrish (Original post)

Sun Dec 16, 2012, 02:54 PM

14. Amazing the strength of the "it can't be done" comments

You are right. However, I am -- well, amazed is probably too strong a word -- saddened to see the usual suspects, DU oldies and newbies, who dropped by to let us know that nothing at all can be done to prevent this from happening again.

Just a reminder that Helen of the Margaret & Helen blog has called bullshit on this meme, and as an octogenarian Texas woman she has the lifetime experience to see it for what it is. Bullshit. http://www.democraticunderground.com/10021997774

This insanity has to stop now.

Hekate

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Response to Hekate (Reply #14)

Sun Dec 16, 2012, 04:59 PM

93. Lots of newbies showing up in these posting rivers supporting NRA talking points it seems.

Fuck the NRA

It's over boys. Your Semi and automatic people killers WILL be outlawed.

Its just a matter of time.

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Response to sellitman (Reply #93)

Sun Dec 16, 2012, 05:08 PM

101. You noticed that too, did you? nt.

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Response to FightingIrish (Original post)

Sun Dec 16, 2012, 02:59 PM

18. It will be a multigenerational fight, but we will prevail

We need to make the gunners irrelevant. Long view, long fight. Challenge everything in the long view. Harass them mercilessly in the short term. We need an ACT UP, sitting in at the gun manufacturers, shaming their spokespeople in public. And absolute frontal attack on all of gun culture beginning now and not ending until their paltry and pathetic arguments have been obliterated.

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Response to alcibiades_mystery (Reply #18)

Sun Dec 16, 2012, 05:10 PM

103. Yes, yes, yes, yes, yes! And yes, it will take a long time. But it has to begin now. nt.

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Response to FightingIrish (Original post)

Sun Dec 16, 2012, 03:26 PM

26. We must counter ALEC and other groups who have forced this into state laws, which is doable.

But only with sustained lobbying by the public, enough to draw media attention and using all the community groups and churches, even, to fight off the Koch plan of creating this insane asylum.

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Response to FightingIrish (Original post)

Sun Dec 16, 2012, 03:26 PM

27. Nicely put

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Response to FightingIrish (Original post)

Sun Dec 16, 2012, 03:31 PM

29. So you, fightingIrish, is going to knock on my door and take my gun? nt

 

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Response to FightingIrish (Original post)

Sun Dec 16, 2012, 03:32 PM

30. WE can do it

Men can regulate abortions according to their sick views, well WE can do the same about guns. I am willing to go to gun shops and protest outside of them, make it hard to get into them. We just need Dem's with spines to make the laws. Make the gun owners jump through so many hoops to keep their personal paranoia it will be funny for us anyways.

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Response to Politicalboi (Reply #30)

Sun Dec 16, 2012, 03:38 PM

35. Lol you without guns are going to do what to people with guns?

 

That is so funny!

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Response to dkf (Reply #35)

Sun Dec 16, 2012, 04:10 PM

54. Is that a threat, dkf?

Because, wow. You've clearly demonstrated the mentality of everyone on this forum who "needs" their guns.

Yep.

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Response to Chorophyll (Reply #54)

Sun Dec 16, 2012, 04:31 PM

58. I don't have a gun but I'm not going to block people who do.

 

That's like cutting off someone while driving in Miami. Crazy.

As a non-gun owner I am not about to rip one out of the hands of those who are dead set on having them.

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Response to dkf (Reply #58)

Sun Dec 16, 2012, 04:39 PM

62. Yeah, fine. I'm referring to your previous post

in which you mocked the idea of gun-less people confronting gun-ful people. The implication being that people with guns would shoot us poor gunless wimps. Maybe you should delete it.

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Response to Chorophyll (Reply #62)

Sun Dec 16, 2012, 04:51 PM

78. I think it's a stupid thing to do. So sue me.

 

Potential Darwin Award winner.

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Response to Chorophyll (Reply #62)

Sun Dec 16, 2012, 04:52 PM

79. Maybe she wishes a certain scene in the opening of the film "Watchmen" was true.

One that involves a flower.

It didn't happen that way. The hippies weren't shot. For some, a disappointment.

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Response to dkf (Reply #35)

Sun Dec 16, 2012, 05:11 PM

106. I don't have guns now. I work in one of the most violent areas in the country. What is it you

think I should be doing with people with guns now?

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Response to Squinch (Reply #106)

Sun Dec 16, 2012, 06:13 PM

128. What I think you shouldn't do is confront them.

 

But that is me. You will do what you need to do I guess.

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Response to dkf (Reply #128)

Sun Dec 16, 2012, 06:24 PM

133. Your question was what would gunless people do when confronted with armed people

if gun control is enacted. And, inexplicably, you appeared to find your own question very funny.

What do you think gunless people do now when confronted with armed people? Are you under the impression that everyone who comes in contact with armed people is likewise armed? Are you aware that there are already quite a few of us who are braving proximity to criminals without carrying guns? That is possible, you know.

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Response to FightingIrish (Original post)

Sun Dec 16, 2012, 03:35 PM

31. You'd think that shooting up an elementary school, murdering twenty 6-year-olds

would be the wake-up call for Americans to unite and call for drastic changes in gun laws to prevent another Sandy Hook Elementary murder-spree . . . but no. Already I read everywhere how gun-enthusiasts are slowly chipping away at any talk for sensible gun control and instead, wax about how wonderful it is to own a few. A few are in this thread alone.

What will it take in this so-called compassionate country to come to terms that murdering twenty children in a matter of minutes is, at the very least, unacceptable? 50 murdered children? 60? 100? 1000?

Americans appear increasingly slow to learn from their mistakes, but I will keep hoping they will finally see the light.

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Response to FightingIrish (Original post)

Sun Dec 16, 2012, 03:35 PM

32. Guns have always been around.. and we never had this problem...

 

Everyone is ignoring the fact that these 20-something-year-old shooters are on high doses of anti-depressants (Paxil-Cymbalta-Prozac-Zoloft-Wellbutrin)

Has any investigator looked into what violent video games these shooters are watching? What if the last six of these shooters were found to be watching the same violent video game? (Maybe a built-in sub-conscious trigger?) Would that be significant? Who rates video games.. who monitors what content is in violent video games? NOBODY.

Ya.. far fetched but not impossible.

Why is everyone ignoring the big Pharma Companies and the practice of putting kids on these high doses of mind altering drugs?

No.. guns not good.. but we are missing the elephant in the room.



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Response to lib2DaBone (Reply #32)

Sun Dec 16, 2012, 04:56 PM

84. Very good comment.

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Response to lib2DaBone (Reply #32)

Sun Dec 16, 2012, 06:19 PM

130. You can't see the elephant in the room

Because it's buried under 300 million guns.

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Response to lib2DaBone (Reply #32)

Sun Dec 16, 2012, 06:39 PM

136. This is interesting for those who think all we need to do is get everybody mental care, as an

option to gun management. This is all they can do for kids with emotional/physiological issues with good or bad parents...even then, only those with money and resources. So either they don't get "help" and run amok or they do get "help" and take anti-psychotics.

It's going to be a heck of a lot easier to figure out how to manage something tangible and taxable like guns as opposed to WAG on "treating" the human race's mental issues. Add to the mix that there is a reason psychiatrists make half a million a year and up...private or government...and little happy pills worth 5 cents are priced at $5-8 ... depending on the brand.



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Response to lib2DaBone (Reply #32)

Mon Dec 17, 2012, 01:13 AM

169. There are possible links

Between the psychiatric drugs and many terrible crimes. Anti-depressants are powerful, mind altering drugs... and we really don't know how exactly they are going to work on an individual basis until the individual is taking them. Even then, without proper supervision we don't really learn much. It's certainly possible, even probable that these medications can lead one to homicidal and/or suicidal thoughts or actions.

That said, I've been on zoloft (150 MG daily, a relatively high dose) for... almost fifteen years, I've never had the intention of seriously harming someone else and I've never even wanted to own a gun. I also play plenty of video games with a great deal of violence in them - though I'm more the sword and sorcery type than the machine gun and missile type.

While I think you have a point in regards to the medications, it is also a fact that plenty of us who take them remain generally stable individuals - some of us remain so in part BECAUSE we take them. As for video games... well, if someone can prove to me that violent video games are likely (more likely than, say, arguing with a tea party member...) to make me a homicidal maniac, I suppose I'll give them up.

I think video game content should be monitored for small children, but most of us that are past our teen years (and even plenty of us in our teen years) realize that there is a huge difference between video games and reality.

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Response to lib2DaBone (Reply #32)

Mon Dec 17, 2012, 02:41 AM

177. /facepalm

Everyone is ignoring the fact that these 20-something-year-old shooters are on high doses of anti-depressants

That's because some are, and more aren't.

Has any investigator looked into what violent video games these shooters are watching?

Yes. There was no correlation. And if you took a half-second to think about it you'd realize that every other western nation receives the same video games yet don't have our nation's violence.

The most violent games in the world are sold in Japan. They get western stuff as well as games no one will distribute outside Japan. So if violent video games were the cause, they'd be the most violent country in the world. And in case you didn't know, they are one of the least violent.

Who rates video games.. who monitors what content is in violent video games? NOBODY.

You better tell the ESRB they don't exist.

Why is everyone ignoring the big Pharma Companies and the practice of putting kids on these high doses of mind altering drugs?

Largely because of the lack of these drugs in the bloodstreams of most mass shooters.

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Response to jeff47 (Reply #177)

Mon Dec 17, 2012, 10:38 AM

193. Thank you for disputing this claptrap.

It's the meds! It's the video games! Crikey.

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Response to FightingIrish (Original post)

Sun Dec 16, 2012, 03:38 PM

34. Bookmarked for a year from now.

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Response to FightingIrish (Original post)

Sun Dec 16, 2012, 03:53 PM

42. I sense alot

of defeatism in this post. Nobody is talking about gun confiscation, what people want is some serious rules (legislation) that will help to prevent this type of senseless murder. How about starting with fines for gun owners who do not keep their guns safely stored in their home i.e. in a safe, so no one else can get access to them, you would think most serious responsbile gun owners are already doing this it's the clowns that lack discipline. Seems like a common sense law that would create conditions where ammunition and guns are segregated i.e., only lawful gunowners can buy ammunition not hard to do that just put it behind the counter like cough meds are now... Gunowners seperate weapons and ammo in their houses locked up in gun safes. How about tighten the requirements to purchase any gun meaining background check, plus a medical records check to make sure your not nuts. Seems like there are tons of common sense measures that can be taken that aren't right now and none of them mean anyone is going to come in and take your valued guns away that you need to protect yourself from the tyrannical government that may someday threaten your liberty....

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Response to humbled_opinion (Reply #42)

Sun Dec 16, 2012, 05:05 PM

99. You are right on some of your points,

earlier I read about the assault rifle band that is no longer in effect. It was a worthless piece of trash. Right now you can google the rules on a Chinese SKS they make no sense, the person that wrote these rules should be job looking. If some rules were written that made sense and someone used a little bit of common sense when writing them it may help.

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Response to FightingIrish (Original post)

Sun Dec 16, 2012, 03:56 PM

45. Good luck with that. Because it's not going to happen

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Response to FightingIrish (Original post)

Sun Dec 16, 2012, 04:06 PM

50. K&R

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Response to FightingIrish (Original post)

Sun Dec 16, 2012, 04:07 PM

51. I was thinking the same thing, make it a meme and get it

out there!

I want to remind those on the far right that they won't be able to find one instance where Obama said he wants to take away any guns, instead he has shown belief in the 2nd Amendment and the RtBA.

And when laws get changed about access to assault weapons it will be because of us and not President Obama. I'm tired of being held hostage by a minority in this country and it's time to let these domestic terrorists know their day has come.

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Response to FightingIrish (Original post)

Sun Dec 16, 2012, 04:10 PM

53. I doubt it.....

 

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Response to FightingIrish (Original post)

Sun Dec 16, 2012, 04:30 PM

57. I hope they don't waste a bunch capital on the old 1994 AWB

That was about the most worthless and dumbest gun law ever enacted. Also would not have done anything to prevent what happened Friday.

I firmly believe 99 out of 100 people have no idea what the 1994 AWB actually regulated.

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Response to FightingIrish (Original post)

Sun Dec 16, 2012, 04:31 PM

59. Actually, no, you're not. nt

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Response to FightingIrish (Original post)

Sun Dec 16, 2012, 04:38 PM

61. This is the only reasonable solution.

As long as the community of gun owners prove themselves to be unable or unwilling to keep their weapons secure from people who would kill, a national gun ban would be the only right & reasonable solution.

If you believe otherwise then you're part of the problem & the rest of us are sick & tired of you.

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Response to baldguy (Reply #61)

Sun Dec 16, 2012, 04:46 PM

67. But how do you get a national gun ban without violating the Bill of Rights?

 

If the congress tried that, the SCOTUS would strike it down so fast, it would boggle the mind.
It would take a repeal of the 2A for that to happen and it only takes 13 states refusing to ratify a repeal to defeat it.

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Response to axetogrind (Reply #67)

Sun Dec 16, 2012, 04:53 PM

80. "A well regulated militia..."

All we need is for the USSC to actually read the damn thing.

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Response to baldguy (Reply #80)

Sun Dec 16, 2012, 04:55 PM

83. OK.

 

But do you see this SCOTUS doing so?

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Response to axetogrind (Reply #83)

Sun Dec 16, 2012, 04:58 PM

92. Impeachment is always an option.

Scalia & Roberts already have done things which deserve removal.

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Response to baldguy (Reply #92)

Sun Dec 16, 2012, 05:04 PM

98. Who does the impeachment?

 

The House or the Senate? Or both of them?

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Response to baldguy (Reply #92)

Sun Dec 16, 2012, 11:49 PM

167. Impeachment of a Supreme Court justice would take much more

than some opinions that you don't like.

Then there's stare decisis.

There have always been guns lying around.

It's always been fairly easy to purchase one.

What I don't understand is that we seem to have an epidemic of young males in their late teens and early 20s just going berzerk.

Then there's the gun violence that kills several young men every weekend, but in ones and twos, so that there's usually not much publicity.

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Response to baldguy (Reply #80)

Sun Dec 16, 2012, 05:17 PM

108. Take your own advice.

The language of the amendment does not limit the RKBA to the militia. There is simply no formal linguistic analysis that can make it work that way, not without committing at least one fallacy.

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Response to Lizzie Poppet (Reply #108)

Sun Dec 16, 2012, 05:39 PM

114. You want the rights with none of the responsibilities that go with them.

One of those responsibilities is to ensure the security of the free state. The community of gun owners have proven they are either unable or unwilling to keep these weapons secure from people who would kill. And then they fight against any reasonable gun control laws. What we're left with is an unmitigated disaster - too many guns outside of a "well-regulated militia" resulting in what amounts to nothing but an armed terrorist mob.

A national gun ban would be the only right & reasonable solution. If you believe otherwise then you're part of the problem & the rest of us are sick of you.

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Response to baldguy (Reply #114)

Sun Dec 16, 2012, 05:52 PM

123. Don't EVEN presume to tell me what I want.

I am a meticulously responsible gun owner, for one thing: my small collection of firearms are always locked in a gun safe when not in my possession. I am a staunch advocate of making such steps mandatory, under penalty of law (although I realize it might require a subsidy so as not to unfairly inhibit the poor from owning guns if they so desire).

Tell me, if that community of gun owners - tens of millions of people and hundreds of millions of firearm - are so devoid of responsibility, why has firearms-related violence nod risen more-or-less in proportion to that community? Why has the nations's per-capita rate of gun ownership remained relatively stable for more than a century while gun-related violent crime spiked sharply upward in the 60's? Why is the relative stringency of gun control virtually useless as a predictor of a state's rate of gun crime?

A national gun ban would be the only right & reasonable solution. If you believe otherwise then you're part of the problem & the rest of us are sick of you.


Ah, yes, that enduring classic of grade-school-level "debate," the old "thus-and-so unsubstantiated subjective evaluation is absolutely true, and if you don't agree you're (insert insulting descriptive here)." Oh, and with a side order of presuming to speak for "the rest of us."

Pure. Comedy. Gold.

I do believe we're done here.

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Response to Lizzie Poppet (Reply #123)

Sun Dec 16, 2012, 06:00 PM

125. What are you doing to stop this from happening AGAIN & AGAIN & AGAIN & AGAIN & AGAIN & AGAIN?

Because whatever it is, it's been woefully ineffective AND YOU HAVE FAILED MISERABLY!


















http://photos.sgvtribune.com/2012/12/15/connecticut-shooting-the-victims/#1

If you're a gun owner who has opposed any kind of gun control, then their blood is on your hands. Fuck You.

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Response to baldguy (Reply #125)


Response to Lizzie Poppet (Reply #123)

Mon Dec 17, 2012, 07:08 PM

215. Of course. After allowing you more than a day, you have no answer.

I must conclude that you're perfectly fine with the bloody human sacrifices of little children - not only these, but dozens more as well - just so you can satisfy your cultish cravings.

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Response to baldguy (Reply #215)

Tue Dec 18, 2012, 09:34 AM

216. Do you need some help with reading?

 

I'm pretty sure that "Lizzie Poppet" spoke in favor of smart gun legislation and is not "opposed any kind of gun control" like you said. Do you need to reread Lizzie's posts, perhaps? Or take a xanax, whatever gets you off your fearmongering high horse. You're the kind of fellow who would support the patriot act.

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Response to axetogrind (Reply #67)

Sun Dec 16, 2012, 05:00 PM

94. All rights are conditional.

We have regulated hand held weapons since the 1930s. We regulate free speech. The constitutional argument is bullshit. There is a clear and obvious societal problem with high capacity firearms. They need to be strictly regulated to get them out of circulation.

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Response to Warren Stupidity (Reply #94)

Sun Dec 16, 2012, 05:10 PM

104. High capacity mags.

 

Hell yes, outlaw them. I have no problem with that.
Also, end all private sales of firearms without a background check, all sales to be conducted through an FFL dealer, no exceptions, mandatory safety classes every 2 years with a certificate of completion, prove that your proficient with the weapon you want to purchase, mandatory safe storage at home with severe penalties for violations, a National FOID card, something like what IL has, to prove that you've been throughly vetted by LE with renewal every 4 years.
Just some ideas I would support.

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Response to FightingIrish (Original post)

Sun Dec 16, 2012, 04:40 PM

63. Kick & Rec. n/t.

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Response to FightingIrish (Original post)

Sun Dec 16, 2012, 04:42 PM

65. No you're not. n/t

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Response to zappaman (Reply #65)

Sun Dec 16, 2012, 04:46 PM

66. The Test Of Time Will Have You Eating Those Words

eom

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Response to cantbeserious (Reply #66)

Sun Dec 16, 2012, 04:48 PM

69. uh huh

I'm sure you are right.
When are you going to take them?
Will you be making an appointment?

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Response to zappaman (Reply #69)

Sun Dec 16, 2012, 04:50 PM

76. No - Not Me Personally - Your New Gun Tax Bill May Make Your Ownership Onerous and Unpalatable

eom

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Response to cantbeserious (Reply #76)

Sun Dec 16, 2012, 04:54 PM

82. uh huh

please keep us posted on how that will take away guns from those that legally own them.

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Response to FightingIrish (Original post)

Sun Dec 16, 2012, 04:46 PM

68. How are you going to do that?

The President I think will have all our backs by getting Congress to pass sttricter gun laws.

However, he will not have your back on taking away my few guns that I own legally.

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Response to FightingIrish (Original post)

Sun Dec 16, 2012, 04:49 PM

73. I'd reck this a million times if I could

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Response to FightingIrish (Original post)

Sun Dec 16, 2012, 04:50 PM

75. Nope. nt

 

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Response to FightingIrish (Original post)

Sun Dec 16, 2012, 04:56 PM

85. Well

 

here is a 4 leaf clover you will need it for luck.
and a song

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Response to FightingIrish (Original post)

Sun Dec 16, 2012, 05:21 PM

109. Unlikely. n/t

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Response to FightingIrish (Original post)

Sun Dec 16, 2012, 05:48 PM

120. No, they will give them up willingly

When possession of them is a stigma rather than a status symbol. It will happen, but I do not like to contemplate the number of bodies that will lie between here and there.

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Response to quaker bill (Reply #120)

Sun Dec 16, 2012, 06:21 PM

131. Exactly. Like cigarettes, swastikas, confederate flags, etc, guns need to become taboo.

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Response to Hoyt (Reply #131)

Mon Dec 17, 2012, 07:18 AM

182. Actually, more than all the above.

There should be no "proud" gun owner. Once they become the rough social equivalent of child porn, then they will disappear.

I have no problem with hunting and the use of firearms for this purpose. A number of biologist friends use them to remove feral hogs from natural areas where the hogs are causing problems. They are a another tool for natural areas management, much like a drip torch or a brush axe. Not a status symbol, not a personal statement, just another tool in the box. If they only existed in this context, I would have no problems with them at all.

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Response to quaker bill (Reply #182)

Mon Dec 17, 2012, 09:08 AM

186. Agree.

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Response to FightingIrish (Original post)

Sun Dec 16, 2012, 06:45 PM

138. Yep. We the People are mad as hell and we're not going to take this anymore.

I have had QUITE ENOUGH of the rabid gun culture in the US.

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Response to FightingIrish (Original post)

Sun Dec 16, 2012, 07:06 PM

141. Who is this "WE" you claim to speak for,

And HOW you going to accomplish this fantasy world feat?

Are you and this "WE" you allude to going to personally drive around neighborhoods,
search houses,
and confiscate all the guns?
You will need at a minimum, the US Military to help you:


I agree that the insanity has to stop,
but insane posts like the OP that will accomplish NOTHING more than Political Suicide for the Democratic Party don't help.
They make things WORSE.

Someone THAT detached from reality SHOULD be prevented from owning a firearm.

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Response to bvar22 (Reply #141)

Sun Dec 16, 2012, 07:14 PM

143. Thank you bvar22. This might be the first time I heartily agree with you.

Why is it so hard to see the danger in all of this?

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Response to NYC_SKP (Reply #143)

Sun Dec 16, 2012, 08:44 PM

156. Because it is hard for zealots to keep swallowing their perception of truth

"Reasonable" is just a waypoint to complete but under pressure the candy coating falls off.

The interesting thing is what is most likely to occur is a war chest of evidence for the "slippery slope" and that it is highly probable that the electorate is more gun owning than the general population, seems like some measure is critical to any movement in an area where by definition you will need consent of those that don't quite see it your way.

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Response to bvar22 (Reply #141)

Sun Dec 16, 2012, 09:21 PM

159. Insane?

Your assumption that we only take their guns away by physically confiscating them is very simplistic and not very imaginative. We take their guns, and I assume yours, by taking away the cachet of gun ownership. We did that with cigarettes. We take their guns away by having reasonable restrictions on what arms are tolerated in civil society and where they can be present. We take their guns away by teaching our children that pulling a trigger is not a valid form of expression. There are countries in Europe with greater freedoms than we enjoy but the freedom to arm oneself like a commando is not one of them. Response to my post seem to be either agreement or resignation to the idea that we have to address an epidemic of gun violence without addressing guns. If my position makes me insane, there must be many crazies on DU, and I thank them.

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Response to FightingIrish (Original post)

Sun Dec 16, 2012, 08:33 PM

154. I will join your effort. It's time to REPEAL the second amendment.

I just sent this to my congresswoman (she's about to retire)

Dear Congresswoman Woolsey:

Repeal the Second Amendment Now.

It is irrational that we have a constitutional right to own a gun but not a car. A car has utility and purpose, transporting us to where we need to go, and occasionally tragically causing death. Guns have the sole purpose of causing death. They have no other utility.

Please, I beg of you, in your final days in Congress, make the most courageous stand of your life. Introduce a bill to amend the Constitution, striking the second amendment from the Bill of Rights. Take the one real, bold, sane action that will be a fitting memorial to the children and adults massacred in Newtown.

Only after the second amendment is repealed can we have meaningful regulation of guns, which rationally needs to be much stronger and more rigorous than the licensing and insurance requirements for cars, rather than far weaker as is currently the case. It is disingenuous to pretend otherwise.

Challenge your congressional colleagues to pass your bill and send the amendment to the states for ratification. Stand up to the bloodthirsty, moneyhungry NRA. Trust that in all states of our union, there are enough people who love children more than they love guns. Let us have a REAL, meaningful conversation about rights and guns and death.

Challenge your colleagues to exhibit as much courage as a kindergarten teacher or an elementary school principal.

Repeal the Second Amendment Now. It is obvious what we need to do to have any hope of preventing further Newtowns. No other response is proportional to this ongoing catastrophe.

Repeal the Second Amendment Now.

Respectfully,

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Response to FightingIrish (Original post)

Sun Dec 16, 2012, 09:07 PM

158. At this moment my girlfriend is on her way home from working a gun show.

She runs a booth selling custom t-shirts, quality mens hat, caps, flags and all kinds of stuff. It started as her intending to work mostly motorcycle rallies and rural street fairs. I masterminded the gun show deal to keep her working during the winter.

I myself only own a couple guns. I only have one on me if I'm where some of the wildlife considers me to be food or I expect to have lots of cash from the business. One encounter with a moose made me start packing when out fishing some areas. I don't hunt. I'm one that wouldn't shoot an intruder if there was any way to avoid it. They would have to be armed as well or attack me. I might fire a warning shot to make them stop or something. Some kid running out the door with some of my stuff wouldn't be worth it.

My girlfriend is kind of a radical libertarian. She took the gun show idea and ran with it and has done pretty well. I look at it as more like fleecing the teabaggers. I told her Obama being reelected was the best thing that could have happened for us, both generally and for the business. She actually agreed that it would be better than RobMe but is no fan of Obama.

I probably won't object to getting rid of the gun show loophole. There has to be a plan-C. Traveling to warmer areas to hit bigger biker rallies would be better anyway. In the mean time, I expect the "gun shoe bidness" to be pretty good.

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Response to FightingIrish (Original post)

Sun Dec 16, 2012, 11:25 PM

164. Tell me again how no one is interested in banning guns.

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Response to FightingIrish (Original post)

Sun Dec 16, 2012, 11:30 PM

165. Yes we are!!!!!!!!!

I am done with it!

It is over, this reckless disregard for public safety!

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Response to FightingIrish (Original post)

Sun Dec 16, 2012, 11:31 PM

166. Thank you, and K & R. nt

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Response to FightingIrish (Original post)

Sun Dec 16, 2012, 11:54 PM

168. Molon Labe ...

...if you can.

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Response to Llewlladdwr (Reply #168)

Mon Dec 17, 2012, 09:37 AM

187. "Take Them If You Can"


I wonder if that was the phrase that was echoing in that killer's head when he broke into the elementary school in Newtown, CT.

Just something for you and your fellow Gun Enthusiasts to ponder.

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Response to FightingIrish (Original post)

Mon Dec 17, 2012, 01:19 AM

170. You'll never disarm the American people

 

In a country of almost 400 million people, there are going to be all sort of tragedies. However, as tragic as the incident in Connecticut was, I still wouldn't even consider letting the government disabuse me of my constitutional right to bear arms.

I am generally far to the left of President Obama but I am inflexible on this issue. If you ban guns, the only people who won't have them are law abiding citizens. They will then be at the mercy of any idiot with a Phillips screwdriver. And gangs will become emboldened because they will know, to a certainty, that there is nothing an individual can do to protect himself

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Response to Hoopermazing (Reply #170)

Mon Dec 17, 2012, 02:15 AM

173. I think it is that kind of thinking that has gotten us where we are now

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Response to Hoopermazing (Reply #170)

Mon Dec 17, 2012, 02:19 AM

174. EXHIBIT NUMBER ONE

we are FED UP being held hostage to FEAR AND IGNORANCE

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Response to Hoopermazing (Reply #170)

Mon Dec 17, 2012, 02:31 AM

175. Yes, just like the rest of

your right-wing Gungeon buddies, you are very "inflexible" on anything that would stop the madness of gun proliferation.

Enjoy your pizza...

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Response to FightingIrish (Original post)

Mon Dec 17, 2012, 05:19 AM

179. Regulation and limitations are one thing, but taking them all away? NEVER GONNA HAPPEN. Get real.

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Response to FightingIrish (Original post)

Mon Dec 17, 2012, 07:38 AM

184. No you're not.

You'd like to, but it ain't happening.

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Response to FightingIrish (Original post)

Mon Dec 17, 2012, 10:12 AM

189. I already gave all my guns away except one. For me, I believe

 

we are nearing end of times. So the presence or absence of guns really won't make much difference, but I can at least protect my wife from getting her throat slit by some enraged whacko in our own house. I don't even like guns since Vietnam, but criminals will ALWAYS be able to get them. And there is virtually nothing that can be done about it. We are going to form our own think tank at America Speaks, a Democratic board that is less strict than this one, on how to resolve the gun problem. When we finalize it, one of us will write it and present it other boards for critique. After that, we will send it to every member of the Senate, but not the House, which right now is predominantly conflicted.

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Response to FightingIrish (Original post)

Mon Dec 17, 2012, 01:05 PM

200. Doesn't matter how many draconian laws you might ram through, you won't ever take them.

 

It's something that we will not allow any more than taking away our FIRST amendment rights. Sorry.

I know this post will piss off a bunch of people, but it's not meant to do that, it's just a simple statement of fact.

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Response to FightingIrish (Original post)

Mon Dec 17, 2012, 01:10 PM

203. No. You're not.

And you're a fool **if** you think you are going to.

Bake

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Response to FightingIrish (Original post)

Mon Dec 17, 2012, 01:22 PM

207. Your chances of doing so at this time are slim to none. (n/t)

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Response to FightingIrish (Original post)

Mon Dec 17, 2012, 06:16 PM

214. It is opinions like yours

 

that are driving gun sales through the roof. Pat yourself on the back now. You just caused another 1000 guns to be purchased and are now on the street.

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Response to guardian (Reply #214)

Tue Dec 18, 2012, 02:49 PM

217. Thanks to people like you

they'll have no problem buying them.

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Response to FightingIrish (Original post)

Wed Dec 19, 2012, 12:06 AM

218. Kick.

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