HomeLatest ThreadsGreatest ThreadsForums & GroupsMy SubscriptionsMy Posts
DU Home » Latest Threads » Forums & Groups » Main » General Discussion (Forum) » Lots of blame for the Mot...
Introducing Discussionist: A new forum by the creators of DU

Sun Dec 16, 2012, 12:08 PM

Lots of blame for the Mother. Apparently Dad's off the hook , though,

I guess b/c he abandoned his "first" family and started a new one?


208 replies, 14004 views

Reply to this thread

Back to top Alert abuse

Always highlight: 10 newest replies | Replies posted after I mark a forum
Replies to this discussion thread
Arrow 208 replies Author Time Post
Reply Lots of blame for the Mother. Apparently Dad's off the hook , though, (Original post)
elehhhhna Dec 2012 OP
Joe the Revelator Dec 2012 #1
Voice for Peace Dec 2012 #207
Laurian Dec 2012 #2
jberryhill Dec 2012 #23
Voice for Peace Dec 2012 #204
krawhitham Dec 2012 #68
Laurian Dec 2012 #76
Warpy Dec 2012 #3
TorchTheWitch Dec 2012 #32
Saboburns Dec 2012 #38
grantcart Dec 2012 #142
Dorian Gray Dec 2012 #146
WCLinolVir Dec 2012 #179
Dorian Gray Dec 2012 #196
Bake Dec 2012 #190
Dorian Gray Dec 2012 #195
Kalidurga Dec 2012 #40
TorchTheWitch Dec 2012 #51
Dorian Gray Dec 2012 #147
Chemisse Dec 2012 #156
Dorian Gray Dec 2012 #198
TorchTheWitch Dec 2012 #178
Dorian Gray Dec 2012 #197
renie408 Dec 2012 #200
sendero Dec 2012 #140
grasswire Dec 2012 #46
TorchTheWitch Dec 2012 #69
Michigan Alum Dec 2012 #134
TorchTheWitch Dec 2012 #141
Michigan Alum Dec 2012 #191
Chemisse Dec 2012 #157
obamanut2012 Dec 2012 #173
JohnnyLib2 Dec 2012 #53
OneMoreDemocrat Dec 2012 #54
KittyWampus Dec 2012 #56
Sedona Dec 2012 #60
TorchTheWitch Dec 2012 #81
Sedona Dec 2012 #89
TorchTheWitch Dec 2012 #100
Dorian Gray Dec 2012 #149
Chemisse Dec 2012 #159
Arugula Latte Dec 2012 #61
TorchTheWitch Dec 2012 #94
Nay Dec 2012 #110
TorchTheWitch Dec 2012 #137
Chemisse Dec 2012 #161
MiddleFingerMom Dec 2012 #164
Nay Dec 2012 #202
obamanut2012 Dec 2012 #174
Nay Dec 2012 #199
Sissyk Dec 2012 #71
Mojorabbit Dec 2012 #108
Riftaxe Dec 2012 #125
Flabbergasted Dec 2012 #127
TorchTheWitch Dec 2012 #133
grantcart Dec 2012 #143
Dorian Gray Dec 2012 #145
Chemisse Dec 2012 #155
OldDem2012 Dec 2012 #160
louis c Dec 2012 #169
obamanut2012 Dec 2012 #172
brush Dec 2012 #175
yellowcanine Dec 2012 #176
Michigan Alum Dec 2012 #194
Voice for Peace Dec 2012 #205
BeyondGeography Dec 2012 #4
ananda Dec 2012 #5
NYC_SKP Dec 2012 #6
joeunderdog Dec 2012 #27
arthritisR_US Dec 2012 #44
ProgressiveProfessor Dec 2012 #124
Chorophyll Dec 2012 #7
mentalsolstice Dec 2012 #8
Nay Dec 2012 #12
HiPointDem Dec 2012 #117
ProgressiveProfessor Dec 2012 #123
Nay Dec 2012 #201
amandabeech Dec 2012 #129
Inspired Dec 2012 #33
Siwsan Dec 2012 #9
Hoyt Dec 2012 #10
bettyellen Dec 2012 #14
Hoyt Dec 2012 #21
bettyellen Dec 2012 #30
No Vested Interest Dec 2012 #128
Chemisse Dec 2012 #163
kiva Dec 2012 #11
Floyd_Gondolli Dec 2012 #45
undeterred Dec 2012 #13
bettyellen Dec 2012 #17
egduj Dec 2012 #15
Saboburns Dec 2012 #41
Sissyk Dec 2012 #77
cynatnite Dec 2012 #16
Eleanors38 Dec 2012 #18
regnaD kciN Dec 2012 #130
Eleanors38 Dec 2012 #180
Marinedem Dec 2012 #19
undeterred Dec 2012 #22
Marinedem Dec 2012 #29
undeterred Dec 2012 #37
Shivering Jemmy Dec 2012 #57
undeterred Dec 2012 #115
Michigan Alum Dec 2012 #135
undeterred Dec 2012 #144
Saboburns Dec 2012 #42
kestrel91316 Dec 2012 #83
jberryhill Dec 2012 #20
WolverineDG Dec 2012 #24
Codeine Dec 2012 #25
ChisolmTrailDem Dec 2012 #26
IdaBriggs Dec 2012 #153
RetroLounge Dec 2012 #28
ChisolmTrailDem Dec 2012 #36
elehhhhna Dec 2012 #91
ChisolmTrailDem Dec 2012 #99
elehhhhna Dec 2012 #103
GeorgeGist Dec 2012 #31
cherokeeprogressive Dec 2012 #34
Jamastiene Dec 2012 #35
xmas74 Dec 2012 #90
lumberjack_jeff Dec 2012 #93
Union Scribe Dec 2012 #39
Lex Dec 2012 #43
otohara Dec 2012 #47
Logical Dec 2012 #48
redqueen Dec 2012 #49
tammywammy Dec 2012 #66
Sissyk Dec 2012 #82
brush Dec 2012 #177
Sissyk Dec 2012 #192
brush Dec 2012 #193
Dorian Gray Dec 2012 #150
one_voice Dec 2012 #50
Jennicut Dec 2012 #52
Floyd_Gondolli Dec 2012 #55
redqueen Dec 2012 #59
Live and Learn Dec 2012 #58
NNN0LHI Dec 2012 #62
mn9driver Dec 2012 #63
elehhhhna Dec 2012 #67
mn9driver Dec 2012 #75
elehhhhna Dec 2012 #84
mn9driver Dec 2012 #88
elehhhhna Dec 2012 #97
mn9driver Dec 2012 #102
msanthrope Dec 2012 #189
customerserviceguy Dec 2012 #73
NNN0LHI Dec 2012 #79
Puglover Dec 2012 #203
Avalux Dec 2012 #64
Chemisse Dec 2012 #165
99Forever Dec 2012 #65
Sissyk Dec 2012 #70
customerserviceguy Dec 2012 #72
Starboard Tack Dec 2012 #74
Sissyk Dec 2012 #85
Live and Learn Dec 2012 #106
99Forever Dec 2012 #107
Starboard Tack Dec 2012 #109
99Forever Dec 2012 #112
Starboard Tack Dec 2012 #113
99Forever Dec 2012 #118
Starboard Tack Dec 2012 #122
tedzbear Dec 2012 #151
Starboard Tack Dec 2012 #182
valerief Dec 2012 #78
amuse bouche Dec 2012 #171
kestrel91316 Dec 2012 #80
Drew Richards Dec 2012 #86
elehhhhna Dec 2012 #98
regnaD kciN Dec 2012 #131
Egalitarian Thug Dec 2012 #87
lumberjack_jeff Dec 2012 #92
Warren Stupidity Dec 2012 #166
lumberjack_jeff Dec 2012 #95
TwilightGardener Dec 2012 #96
southernyankeebelle Dec 2012 #101
IdaBriggs Dec 2012 #154
southernyankeebelle Dec 2012 #158
IdaBriggs Dec 2012 #170
Fumesucker Dec 2012 #181
IdaBriggs Dec 2012 #186
Fumesucker Dec 2012 #187
Warren Stupidity Dec 2012 #167
southernyankeebelle Dec 2012 #168
Warren Stupidity Dec 2012 #183
southernyankeebelle Dec 2012 #185
spanone Dec 2012 #104
leeroysphitz Dec 2012 #105
Nye Bevan Dec 2012 #111
Common Sense Party Dec 2012 #126
raccoon Dec 2012 #114
Floyd_Gondolli Dec 2012 #116
raccoon Dec 2012 #120
Floyd_Gondolli Dec 2012 #121
regnaD kciN Dec 2012 #132
H2O Man Dec 2012 #119
coalition_unwilling Dec 2012 #136
JI7 Dec 2012 #138
lbrtbell Dec 2012 #139
underpants Dec 2012 #148
IcyPeas Dec 2012 #208
joeunderdog Dec 2012 #152
raccoon Dec 2012 #162
Dash87 Dec 2012 #184
Welcome_hubby Dec 2012 #188
Iris Dec 2012 #206

Response to elehhhhna (Original post)

Sun Dec 16, 2012, 12:11 PM

1. Well, your statement there doesn't sound quite fair......

You don't know, maybe he tried to get custody, but the nutty ass mother won over the court.

She didn't work and lived in a 1.6 million dollar home, I don't think its fair to say that the father 'abandoned' his 'first family'

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to Joe the Revelator (Reply #1)

Tue Dec 18, 2012, 05:14 PM

207. Whatever is the truth, she looks very human, like us

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to elehhhhna (Original post)

Sun Dec 16, 2012, 12:12 PM

2. From what I read, she initiated the divorce.

I'm not one to exonerate men who abandon a wife and family for a new and younger wife, but that does not seem to be the case here.

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to Laurian (Reply #2)

Sun Dec 16, 2012, 12:39 PM

23. I wish someone would "abandon" me to the tune of $250K per year

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to jberryhill (Reply #23)

Tue Dec 18, 2012, 05:02 PM

204. !!!! sounds good to me too

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to Laurian (Reply #2)

Sun Dec 16, 2012, 02:16 PM

68. From what I read, she initiated the divorce after he was caught cheating

When you cheat you are abandoning your family

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to krawhitham (Reply #68)

Sun Dec 16, 2012, 02:28 PM

76. Oops, sorry. I hadn't heard the cheating part.

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to elehhhhna (Original post)

Sun Dec 16, 2012, 12:12 PM

3. Right, Dad is never responsible for anything in these scenarios

even though he could well have been the reason Mama thought she needed that arsenal. Who knows? Or they all could have been gun crazy. Who knows?

We just don't know enough yet. We will probably never know enough. We just know that leaving deadly weapons where an angry young male could get to them easily was a bad idea.

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to Warpy (Reply #3)

Sun Dec 16, 2012, 12:56 PM

32. well, personally I'm going with what the people who knew her have said

That she was a wonderful mother and person who grew up on a farm and simply liked target shooting with guns. The only place I've ever heard that she was a whack job or a kooky survivalist or was irresponsible with her guns is on DU with nothing at all to back it up. It's also only on DU that I've read anything at all that Adam was a violent homicidal maniac and that his mother knew this when everything said points to his being non-violent but obviously mentally disturbed in some way. Adam's own family is shocked and trying to wrap their heads around why he did this horrible thing. One person that has been reporting such nice things about her is her ex-sister-in-law, but far be it from so many people here to pay attention to what the people that actually knew this family have to say and just make up their own minds according to whatever their own personal gun agenda is and slam a mother who was just murdered by her own son as if this terrible crime is all her fault and never mind that she is counted among the dead and is just as much a victim as all the other dead victims.

Why is it assumed that it was KNOWN by anyone that he was an angry young male and so angry that he felt the desire to go shoot a bunch of people including his own mother and himself? He had no record of violence, and not a single person that knew him described him angry. He was odd, he had mental problems, his behavior was not considered normal, but not one single person believed he showed any sign whatsoever of being angry and so much so that he would shoot anyone much less his own mother and a bunch of totally innocent little kids and teachers. Geez, people here talk about him like everyone knew he was dangerous and was walking around with "Dangerous Homicidal Maniac" tattooed on his forehead or something. It's obvious in hindsight that he was a dangerous homicidal mentally disturbed individual, but not one thing has been reported by a single soul that knew him expressed anything about him that was angry or violent. Before this incident he had no known history of either by anyone and being a loner and non-communicator he carried his worst demons in his own head that no one including his own family members knew was there.

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to TorchTheWitch (Reply #32)

Sun Dec 16, 2012, 01:11 PM

38. Thank you for this

Thank you

Thank you

Thank you


You've done me a great service. Ive been so ashamed of how inhuman this place has been this weekend.

Salaam Aleikum

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to Saboburns (Reply #38)

Mon Dec 17, 2012, 06:58 AM

142. As-Salamu Alayka


There is a lot of anger. Often in anger people lose perspective.

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to grantcart (Reply #142)

Mon Dec 17, 2012, 07:10 AM

146. It's anger

I also think it's people desperately trying to make sense of this. Blaming the mother somehow makes it make sense in their minds. "Their family was messed up. This couldn't possibly happen to me!"

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to Dorian Gray (Reply #146)

Mon Dec 17, 2012, 09:46 AM

179. So true. The survival, primitive part of the human brain does this

repeatedly. We want to frame incidents that are potentially threatening to our well being by creating a survival scenario. So if we see a situation that is a potential threat we look for what we might consider mitigating factors that would factor in favor of our survival as perceived by us. It is a way for the brain to not be overwhelmed. It is not logical, to think that it couldn't happen to us. That is why we sometimes want to blame the victim. What did they do wrong. Just forgive our brain which is not evolved as the human spirit. PTSD is complicated by this primitive brain function as the brain now identifies self as the problem and the reality that horrible things can and do happen to self and that threats are everywhere is overwhelming. There is no real safety. We only make attempts to reduce risks.

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to WCLinolVir (Reply #179)

Mon Dec 17, 2012, 10:20 PM

196. That's an interesting way to look at it

I agree, though I also think in times of mourning, and the nation is mourning this incident, that people don't think clearly but some of those thoughts might clear up shortly. Initially it's why why why why why? That seems to matter less as the reality sets in.

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to Dorian Gray (Reply #146)

Mon Dec 17, 2012, 03:04 PM

190. This is why the President said "today is not the day ..."

Knee jerk reactions are usually wrong.

Bake

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to Bake (Reply #190)

Mon Dec 17, 2012, 10:17 PM

195. Exactly

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to TorchTheWitch (Reply #32)

Sun Dec 16, 2012, 01:20 PM

40. You know why people do this...

because we have to blame someone. The mother was the one who spent the most time with him so she um should have known he was dangerous and gotten him help and they could afford this so money and access was not the issue. And we like to think we can spot dangerous people, but we usually can't. It isn't like he looked normal by most accounts. But, he sure didn't look dangerous by several accounts. So, it's a comfort if you think you can spot the crazies or sense danger.

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to Kalidurga (Reply #40)

Sun Dec 16, 2012, 01:44 PM

51. stop reading my mind

I was just thinking about exactly what you're saying while reading and responding to another post but at the time I wrote it I was just getting the gist of what you're saying about the comfort of being able to spot the dangerously mentally ill, and was just sitting here pondering this and coming to pretty much the same conclusion.

I'm still not getting why so many people are blaming the mother and making up all kinds of crap about her while ignoring the person who actually did the deed. I don't get that. Is it because they think that because he was mentally ill he should be getting some kind of pass or don't want to appear to degenerate the mentally ill? I just don't get that. Surely one can understand hating what someone did but not hate them because their doing the deed was because of demons in their own head. Huh. Something else to ponder.


Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to TorchTheWitch (Reply #51)

Mon Dec 17, 2012, 07:12 AM

147. It's all about

trying to comfort themselves. If they can blame the mother, then this families problems can never happen to their families. They aren't crazy. They aren't gun nuts. They aren't end of worlders. It provides comfort, in a way.

I think it's a normal coping mechanism. Trying to make sense of something that makes no sense at all.

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to Dorian Gray (Reply #147)

Mon Dec 17, 2012, 07:49 AM

156. That makes a lot of sense.

And makes me feel a bit better about the horrible things people have been saying here on DU.

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to Chemisse (Reply #156)

Mon Dec 17, 2012, 10:27 PM

198. it's been tough here the last few days.

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to Dorian Gray (Reply #147)

Mon Dec 17, 2012, 09:40 AM

178. Not on DU it isn't

Oh no indeed. Here it's all about anti-gun agenda driving. When did DU ever demonize a parent of a mass murderer even when those parents and pretty much everyone that knew the murderer DID know they were dangerously and violently mentally ill? Never. When did DU start demonizing the mother in this case even though she was the first victim of this horrible crime? The moment it was reported that the guns used in the crime were her guns. Who are the people here that are demonizing the mother? The people here who are anti-gun. Who here has steadfastly NOT so much as hinted at blame of the actual person who committed this atrocious act? Same. Who here has insisted over and over that though not one single person that knew Adam had the slightest inkling that he could possibly be homicidal and had never shown any violence or even aggression by everyone who knew him yet insist that his mother magically HAD to know he was thereby being at fault for his killing her and using her guns to mass murder little children and teachers? Same.

In no way is this about normal coping mechanism here. No one on DU has ever done this before with any of the other mass murders by people who were KNOWN to be violently mentally ill and when none of the family members were victims of crimes. This is hateful ugly pure agenda driving that is so passionate they're willing to demonize the victim of the crime and flat out make up shit about her for no reason whatsoever than the fact that she owned the guns that were used by her son. Yeah, that guy. The one these people conveniently forget was the one who murdered his mother and all those young children and teachers.



Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to TorchTheWitch (Reply #178)

Mon Dec 17, 2012, 10:26 PM

197. I was with you all the way through this thread

until this response to my post. I do think that's why many people are saying what they are saying. There are probably some gun "nuts" whose primary purpose is to protect their right to shoot things. A right I don't support. But, most people are searching for WHY. Trying to make sense of this. And it makes "sense" that the mother, the primary "caretaker" of Adam was at fault. That way it's just not as scary as it would be otherwise.

I don't blame the mother or the father or anyone else. Lanza's actions were his own. Whether he was truly mentally ill or not, we may never officially find out. My sister in law was killed almost two months ago by a driver who didn't see her. It was my mother in law and brother in law's instinct to be angry and blame the driver. The alternative, that she made a mistake by crossing a street at night without really looking was incomprehensible to them. But the driver did what he could do. He stopped. He called the police. He waited, despite my brother in law threatening to kill him while my SIL lay in the street. People need to assign blame, at least initially, so they can understand "why" something happens. It's not right. And certainly the father is no more deserving than the mother of assigning blame. The mother is a victim. The father's family is now fractured beyond repair. The survivors nor the dead deserve blame.

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to TorchTheWitch (Reply #178)

Tue Dec 18, 2012, 03:03 PM

200. Really?

You can say that with certainty? That 'no one on DU has EVER done this before'?

Really?

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to Kalidurga (Reply #40)

Mon Dec 17, 2012, 05:48 AM

140. Exactly.....

.... a wise post is a sea of ignorance from people who cannot accept the obvious fact that in this world, in this life, not everything is in our "control" and there is not always someone alive left to "blame".

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to TorchTheWitch (Reply #32)

Sun Dec 16, 2012, 01:38 PM

46. his mother told the male bbsitter to never leave Adam in a room by himself.

Not even to go to the bathroom. Adam as a youth needed to be watched every moment.

That means something.

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to grasswire (Reply #46)

Sun Dec 16, 2012, 02:17 PM

69. and it seems to mean that as a youth

he could hurt himself. Seeing as he had that rare condition where he was unable to feel physical pain, I can see why as a youth he needed to be watched all the time because he could inadvertently hurt himself and not be aware of it because he couldn't feel it. There was also a security guard at his school that said part of his job was to watch Adam for that very reason.

Either you or this babysitter is leaving something very important out here - WHY. Surely this woman that was so dedicated in making sure that he wasn't hurting himself knowing that he had a condition where he was incapable of feeling physical pain I'm sure she would have explained this to the babysitter as to why he needed to be constantly watched when he was young.


Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to TorchTheWitch (Reply #69)

Mon Dec 17, 2012, 03:54 AM

134. Autism or Aspberger's do not cause one not to feel physical pain. Depression can make one feel numb

Emotionally.

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to Michigan Alum (Reply #134)

Mon Dec 17, 2012, 06:51 AM

141. I wasn't talking about Autism or Asperger's

and have no idea why in the world you think I was. I was talking about a rare physical condition he suffered from where he was not able to feel PHYSICAL pain... congenital analgesia.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Congenital_insensitivity_to_pain

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to TorchTheWitch (Reply #141)

Mon Dec 17, 2012, 04:17 PM

191. Did not know he had congenital analgesia..... haven't seen that mentioned anywhere.

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to TorchTheWitch (Reply #69)

Mon Dec 17, 2012, 07:50 AM

157. I agree - the babysitter left out that tidbit - or the reporter did.

The story meant to imply that the child was violent.

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to grasswire (Reply #46)

Mon Dec 17, 2012, 09:06 AM

173. We have no proof this was ever said

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to TorchTheWitch (Reply #32)

Sun Dec 16, 2012, 01:48 PM

53. Excellent points.


Thank you.

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to TorchTheWitch (Reply #32)

Sun Dec 16, 2012, 01:49 PM

54. Finally...

 

Sense.

So fucking refreshing.

Thank you.

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to TorchTheWitch (Reply #32)

Sun Dec 16, 2012, 01:49 PM

56. Your Username is perfect with this post. I thank you for your drop of reason in this sea of madness

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to TorchTheWitch (Reply #32)

Sun Dec 16, 2012, 01:56 PM

60. Juvenile records are sealed by law...

we have no idea what his record was before his 18th birthday....just sayin'

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to Sedona (Reply #60)

Sun Dec 16, 2012, 02:43 PM

81. well he certainly showed no violent tendencies

to anyone as a youth or as an adult so I'm betting that there are no sealed juvenile records that show he had any violent altercations either. Surely with the significance of the incident if there was some violent altercation he was arrested for there would be all kinds of people coming out of the woodwork to talk all about it particularly the victim of some speculated youthful arrest for something violent he was speculated for being guilty of without a single shred of any evidence pointing to any such thing. Hell, people who didn't know this family existed at all are being interviewed with one dingaling disturbed by the fact that he just didn't know them at all. I don't know any place of that town's size where it's reasonable to believe that everyone actually does know everyone else and finding something disturbing in that. Although what's more disturbing is the media believed his total lack of knowledge of the the very existence of the family was someone significant to interview in the first place. Hey, why didn't they interview me! I not only never knew this family existed but never knew the town existed either!


This is exactly what I'm talking about. Giving significance for something that is not known to exist and which there has never been any indication of in the first place as a reason to demonize his family for not knowing he was a dangerous homicidal maniac. That's just flat out stupid. There's just no common sense in that. None whatsoever.


Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to TorchTheWitch (Reply #81)

Sun Dec 16, 2012, 02:55 PM

89. Exactly, thank you for making my point.

Giving significance for something that is not known to exist


We have no evidence one way or another whether this disturbed young man had a history of violence. Let's not assume he didn't.

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to Sedona (Reply #89)

Sun Dec 16, 2012, 03:38 PM

100. so back we go to that common sense thing

Everyone that knew him has said he showed no signs whatsoever of any violent tendencies, so it's somehow reasonable to believe that he did despite no evidence of it whatsoever before the incident and go with whatever you personally want to believe and despite so many people that knew him saying that he had no signs of violent tendencies. Sure, that makes all kinds of sense. Let's just pretend that he might have had some history of violence that no one on the plant had ever known of and believe that there just has to be somebody out there that is the only personal in the whole world that knew he had a history of violence and just doesn't think it's important to say so after his mother and over nearly three dozen young children and teachers lay dead at his hand.



Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to Sedona (Reply #89)

Mon Dec 17, 2012, 07:13 AM

149. So we should assume he did?

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to Sedona (Reply #89)

Mon Dec 17, 2012, 07:53 AM

159. Let's not assume he didn't = Let's assume he did.

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to TorchTheWitch (Reply #32)

Sun Dec 16, 2012, 01:59 PM

61. The mother used horrible judgment in keeping a lot of guns around a mentally disturbed son.

Beyond that, we don't know much.

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to Arugula Latte (Reply #61)

Sun Dec 16, 2012, 03:14 PM

94. what sort of mental disturbance?

I guess you could say I'm mentally disturbed since I have panic attacks and bouts of mild depression, but I would never think to shoot anyone including my own self. The only reason anyone doesn't have guns around me is because I don't want them around me and make that known.

Given the fact that not a single person who knew him had any inkling that he was either suicidal or homicidal and did know that he did know how to handle guns and went target shooting with his mother and brother and apparently also his father and was never known to handle them irresponsibly despite having some sort of mental illness why would the mother have believed that having guns in the house was horrible judgment? This woman loved her son and lived in the home with him. Do you really honestly believe if she had the slightest inkling that having guns in the house was a bad idea because he might for no known reason kill himself or anyone else with herself being the closest target that she'd still keep guns in the house??? Who the hell does that??? Don't you think her normal motherly and human concern for her own and her son's safety that if she had the slimmest of all possible thoughts that he might kill himself or someone else with her guns that she'd keep them in the house that she lived in with him???

This is more demonizing of the mentally ill and demonizing of a VICTIM of this horrible incident. Without knowing or exhibiting any indication whatsoever that he was dangerous to himself or others no guns should be around him when he had already shown perfectly fine gun handling and responsibility despite his mental illness? It's so easy to look at what he did in hindsight and point fingers of blame isn't it though it's pretty sicko to point fingers of blame at one of the victims of what he did and without pointing them at he who did it? He had no known suicidal or homicidal signs whatsoever according to everyone that knew him and had also previously shown that despite having a mental illness he WAS responsible around and using guns. It is only this incident that revealed to anyone that he in fact was both suicidal and homicidal, but you expect that somehow his mother should have known this despite there being no evidence for it, and she ended up paying for not being clairvoyant with her very life.


Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to TorchTheWitch (Reply #94)

Sun Dec 16, 2012, 04:15 PM

110. His brother sure seemed to know. Bet Dad knew, too, and was helpless to change things.

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to Nay (Reply #110)

Mon Dec 17, 2012, 04:38 AM

137. And what has Ryan actually SAID?

He's said NOTHING. Your "seeming" and "betting" that Ryan or the father somehow knew Adam was suicidal and homicidal comes from absolutely nothing other than your own agenda since there is nothing whatsoever reported by anyone to indicate your personal agenda driven feelings concerning the family members of the person who actually DID the atrocious act who you and others are conveniently NOT demonizing or even blaming for it are anything more than something you just pulled out of your own butt for NO OTHER REASON that they enjoyed shooting guns at inanimate targets.

Thank you for so eloquently proving my point with this idiotic rubbish and demonizing of a heartbroken family whose brother/son murdered their mother/ex-wife and nearly three dozen innocent people most of whom were little children all while oh so conveniently ignoring even so much as a hint of blame or demonization of the person that actually DID this horrific crime. This shit is DISGUSTING and you should be utterly ashamed for it.


Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to Nay (Reply #110)

Mon Dec 17, 2012, 07:55 AM

161. Why are you spinning a tale? How about stick to the facts that we have. nt

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to Chemisse (Reply #161)

Mon Dec 17, 2012, 08:03 AM

164. Because he/she is a Nay-sayer (look at the username).

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to MiddleFingerMom (Reply #164)

Tue Dec 18, 2012, 03:06 PM

202. Actually, it's because I have a very long name that my baby brother could not say, and "Nay"

was the closest he could come to it. But thanks for the guess. I guess.

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to Nay (Reply #110)

Mon Dec 17, 2012, 09:07 AM

174. His brother has said no such thing

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to obamanut2012 (Reply #174)

Tue Dec 18, 2012, 02:57 PM

199. Here's what Ryan Lanza said, as reported in the UK Daily Mail....

Ryan Lanza said:

'It was my brother. I think my mother is dead. Oh my God': Moment accountant sibling of school shooter saw himself named as killer on TV in case of mistaken identity

Read more: http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-2248327/Ryan-Lanza-Moment-brother-Adam-Lanza-saw-CNN-mistakenly-report-Sandy-Hook-shooter.html#ixzz2FR0vfmBi
Follow us: @MailOnline on Twitter | DailyMail on Facebook

As I said in the comment above, which everyone seemed so upset about, Ryan basically named his brother as the killer, and was worried about his mother who, as it turned out, was indeed dead, although he did not know it at the time he made that statement. Now, I'm speculating here, but am I crazy for making the mental jump to suspecting that if the 24-yr-old brother knew immediately who the killer must be, that the father probably knew as well? And that the 2 of them, consciously or unconsciously, removed themselves from the family because they felt they no longer had any control over the situation and were afraid of the possible consequences? As it turned out, they were correct. If they had stayed in that house, they each would have had 4 bullets to the head, most likely.

With the state of the mental health system AND its unwillingness to lock up people until AFTER a bunch of people die, what else did you want the father and brother to do?

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to TorchTheWitch (Reply #32)

Sun Dec 16, 2012, 02:22 PM

71. I add my Thank You also.

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to TorchTheWitch (Reply #32)

Sun Dec 16, 2012, 04:06 PM

108. I also want to thank you

profusely for this. It is like a mob mentality here right now. I understand people's emotional response because I am going through my own but some of the posts I am reading are freaking me out.

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to TorchTheWitch (Reply #32)

Mon Dec 17, 2012, 12:27 AM

125. Very well said

It is been exhausting reading these boards in the last few days as the hyper emotional seek a bogeyman other then the man responsible.

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to TorchTheWitch (Reply #32)

Mon Dec 17, 2012, 12:49 AM

127. He did have an "altercation" with four office staff at the school. Sounds serious to

me. It is likely his mother was informed. He was probably scolded by his mother in the least about the incident.

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to Flabbergasted (Reply #127)

Mon Dec 17, 2012, 03:46 AM

133. No he didn't

That story was yet another media boo-boo reporting speculation as fact. He was not at the school the day before and did not have an altercation with anyone there.

"Vance {Connecticut State Police Lt. Paul Vance} said it appears that reports of an altercation involving Lanza at the school in the days before the mass slaying are not checking out."
http://abcnews.go.com/US/connecticut-school-shooting-president-obama-meet-victims-families/story?id=17981351&page=2#.UM7XV3q4qSo

There has been not one single report by anyone that knew him that he ever displayed any aggression or violence whatsoever. What was so noticeable about him that everyone that knew him commented on was that he was just the opposite: uncommunicative, shy, withdrawn, fearful, socially awkward and it was typical of him to escape interaction with people even those he knew and trusted.

Richard Novia who until 2008 was the school district's head of security and adviser to the school's technology club, of which Lanza was a member described Lanza to the AP as "a loner."

"You had yourself a very scared young boy, who was very nervous around people," he added.

Novia said Lanza had extreme difficulties relating to fellow students and teachers, as well as a strange bodily condition: "If that boy would've burned himself, he would not have known it or felt it physically."

Lanza would also go through crises that would require his mother to come to school to deal with them. Such episodes might involve "total withdrawal from whatever he was supposed to be doing, be it a class, be it sitting and reading a book," Novia told the AP.

When people approached Lanza in the hallways, he would press himself against the wall or walk in a different direction, clutching his black briefcase "like an 8-year-old who refuses to give up his teddy bear," said Novia, who now lives in Tennessee.

http://usnews.nbcnews.com/_news/2012/12/15/15933406-connecticut-school-shooter-was-very-nervous-around-people?lite

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to TorchTheWitch (Reply #32)

Mon Dec 17, 2012, 07:02 AM

143. I haven't had time to read the threads you refer to but I thinkyou are correct. There is only one

fact that should be held against the mother.

She didn't keep the guns in a gun safe.

It is unfortunate and she paid for it with her life.

There is no excuse for it, if you are going to have guns you need a secure facility to keep them. Period.

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to TorchTheWitch (Reply #32)

Mon Dec 17, 2012, 07:08 AM

145. Thank you for this

I would like to add that I think people who are trying to make sense of this and why a 20 year old male would do something like this are making stuff up in their minds to link it all together.

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to TorchTheWitch (Reply #32)

Mon Dec 17, 2012, 07:46 AM

155. Thank you! I am so sick of the 'holier than thou s'

who are so quick to condemn people they have never known, and know next to nothing about.

I prefer to assume that mothers do the very best they can for their children - unless this is proven otherwise.

There are all sorts of situations which may have been happening here. The guns could have been locked up tight, and he found a way to access them. She could have trusted him completely, particularly if he had never shown signs of violence. I know I trust my son; mothers tend to want to do that, sometimes in the face of contraindications.

And it may be - most probably is - true that she was careless in some way that allowed him to get the guns. If that is the case, then she is fallible like the rest of us. She should not have had to pay with her life. And she surely does not deserve to have the hatred of the world upon her.

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to TorchTheWitch (Reply #32)

Mon Dec 17, 2012, 07:55 AM

160. Very well stated. nt.

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to TorchTheWitch (Reply #32)

Mon Dec 17, 2012, 08:45 AM

169. Why did she need assault weapons?

She may be all that. But you must include "gun nut" in that description.

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to TorchTheWitch (Reply #32)

Mon Dec 17, 2012, 09:05 AM

172. thank you -- this

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to TorchTheWitch (Reply #32)

Mon Dec 17, 2012, 09:13 AM

175. Why weren't the guns locked up?

That's a huge failing as a parent, I don't care how caring a mother or non-threatening the son seemed. You secure those guns because who knows what can happen. This time the unthinkable did because of easy access to guns.

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to TorchTheWitch (Reply #32)

Mon Dec 17, 2012, 09:21 AM

176. FWIW the "survivalist" part is not just DU

http://www.calgaryherald.com/sports/School+shootings+Gunman+mother+survivalist+collected+guns/7706852/story.html

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-2248983/Connecticut-school-shooting-Adam-Lanzas-survivalist-mother-obsessed-guns.html

http://govtslaves.info/school-shooters-mom-was-a-survivalist-who-stockpiled-food-water-and-guns-believed-world-was-on-edge-of-collapse/

Now maybe these are all from a single source. But it is incorrect to say this only a DU thing. It is fine to resist jumping to conclusions but there does appear to be at least some evidence that there was something a little strange in that household. Neighbors also talked about the fact that the mother never wanted outsiders inside the house.

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to yellowcanine (Reply #176)

Mon Dec 17, 2012, 05:23 PM

194. There's a ton of articles saying this - her sister was the one who reported this.

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to TorchTheWitch (Reply #32)

Tue Dec 18, 2012, 05:05 PM

205. this picture



I think she had a lot weighing on her heart.

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to elehhhhna (Original post)

Sun Dec 16, 2012, 12:12 PM

4. They were married for 28 years

I'd say he gave it a try.

Not sure of the value of this.

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to elehhhhna (Original post)

Sun Dec 16, 2012, 12:12 PM

5. She initiated the divorce.

My best guess is that Mr. Lanza was a distant, workaholic dad.

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to elehhhhna (Original post)

Sun Dec 16, 2012, 12:14 PM

6. Well, we don't know everything. But the mom kept the firearms, right?

No I don't know that she wasn't forced by him to keep them, and to keep them available to the son.

But it was her house and the guns were, too, apparently.

Like I said, we don't know all the details so I'm not going to lay blame on either parent more than the other.

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to NYC_SKP (Reply #6)

Sun Dec 16, 2012, 12:41 PM

27. details, shmeetails.

I would've left a gun toting survivalist whack job too, but I guess they are calling that abandonment these days.

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to joeunderdog (Reply #27)

Sun Dec 16, 2012, 01:27 PM

44. The devil is in the details, which some don't

wish to consider. It's maddening !

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to joeunderdog (Reply #27)

Sun Dec 16, 2012, 07:52 PM

124. Even that is not clear

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to elehhhhna (Original post)

Sun Dec 16, 2012, 12:17 PM

7. The guns belonged to the mother. And they were some pretty scary guns.

Maybe her husband was afraid of her? I agree that these cases usually happen the other way, but come on.

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to elehhhhna (Original post)

Sun Dec 16, 2012, 12:17 PM

8. I read in several places that she initiated the divorce

And that he was very upset over the breakup. He was giving her $200,000+ per year for alimony, according to his attorney the amount was a non-issue. I wonder if they broke up because they couldn't agree about what to with Adam. I swear the more I read about this the more I'm reminded of the book/movie "We Need to Talk About Kevin."

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to mentalsolstice (Reply #8)

Sun Dec 16, 2012, 12:23 PM

12. This was exactly my take on it, too. He was already giving her more alimony than was required,

he had joint custody, she initiated the divorce, no one was making her do anything. I suspect that once she divorced him, he talked the older brother into leaving the area so that they both were not near Adam. I think the dad knew he was dangerous, the mom was not in agreement, and dad and other son had no influence (esp since Adam was almost 18 at time of divorce) and got themselves out of the way as much as possible.

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to Nay (Reply #12)

Sun Dec 16, 2012, 04:37 PM

117. most of which is entirely speculative on your part

 

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to HiPointDem (Reply #117)

Sun Dec 16, 2012, 07:51 PM

123. All of this is speculative at this point

IIRC an aunt was talking to the press was the only family member saying anything. The brother and father have been silent to the press

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to HiPointDem (Reply #117)

Tue Dec 18, 2012, 03:04 PM

201. Of course it is. I am not a reporter writing a story, or an author writing a book. I am just

collating the info as given, and speculating on the reasons why the brother and father seemingly took themselves completely out of the family. I have to say, though, that it is not at all unusual for mentally healthy people to cut themselves off completely from mentally ill family members; it seems to be a way of healing the self and finding a peace that was never present in the family dynamics.

What's really sad is that we have no place except the family to put these types of folks. That's where society has dropped the ball.

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to Nay (Reply #12)

Mon Dec 17, 2012, 01:05 AM

129. In one article I read, the older brother Ryan had not had contact with his younger

brother since 2010.

Bizarre that the younger brother had some of the older's ID.

The family situation seems really messed up.

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to mentalsolstice (Reply #8)

Sun Dec 16, 2012, 12:58 PM

33. Yes, that book was chilling and this tragedy reminds me of it as well. n/t

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to elehhhhna (Original post)

Sun Dec 16, 2012, 12:18 PM

9. There is far too much we don't, and may never, know about their family dynamic

I can't begin to grasp the kind of shock and horror the survivors of the shooter's family must be going through, also. The ex-husband seems to have been supporting his son and ex-wife in pretty good style, since she was able to live what seems like a very comfortable lifestyle, AND have enough left over to hoard food and weapons. I'm pretty much thinking that these two men had a lucky escape from being victims, themselves.

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to elehhhhna (Original post)

Sun Dec 16, 2012, 12:19 PM

10. Does anyone know if the father shared in the love of guns?

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to Hoyt (Reply #10)

Sun Dec 16, 2012, 12:29 PM

14. he was a gun owner as well. reports were the "entire family" used to go to shooting range together

so, it's possible he was part of all this whole gun loving scenario as recently as three years ago.

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to bettyellen (Reply #14)

Sun Dec 16, 2012, 12:36 PM

21. Thanks. Exactly what I thought -- kid was brought up in gun culture.

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to Hoyt (Reply #21)

Sun Dec 16, 2012, 12:50 PM

30. yeah, I think they are being a bit unfair to the mom for sticking it out. parents have few options

with mentally ill kids once they turn 18. and she was an idiot if she didn't secure the guns.
but we don't know if this kid ambushed her and took them by force or if they were readily available.
it's unfortunate she did not consider the big risk involved if she had keys to the gun cabinet in that house while the kids was alone there.
but i've heard some DUers do the same thing- saying it's too much trouble to take the keys with them everywhere. i don't get it.

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to bettyellen (Reply #30)

Mon Dec 17, 2012, 12:55 AM

128. Mom was in bed in her pajamas

when son shot her four times.
We don't know if she was sleeping or awake enough to know what hit her.

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to No Vested Interest (Reply #128)

Mon Dec 17, 2012, 08:00 AM

163. I hope she never knew.

What a horrible thing to happen to a mother.

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to elehhhhna (Original post)

Sun Dec 16, 2012, 12:21 PM

11. Mom kept guns in the house

with a mentally ill adult. Dad did not live there.

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to kiva (Reply #11)

Sun Dec 16, 2012, 01:32 PM

45. And that's really where the rubber meets the road

 

Clearly either she underestimated the depth of her sons mental problems, or didn't do a very good job keeping the guns out of his hands. Or both. Either way that led to 20 first graders being massacred along with her own senseless murder.

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to elehhhhna (Original post)

Sun Dec 16, 2012, 12:28 PM

13. The landscaper who knew the mother said that she had a lot of bad things to say

about her ex, and that the son never saw him. So on the surface it looked very cordial, but in front of her son- he was hearing all the emotional debris. He hardly ever saw his father and evidently didn't feel that he was someone he could turn to. Then one day he broke into his mothers gun case, shot her in the face while she slept, and went to his grade school and shot and killed 20 children and 6 adults before turning the gun on himself.

So I'd say neither parent really knew what was going on in his head.

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to undeterred (Reply #13)

Sun Dec 16, 2012, 12:32 PM

17. i know he was very generous with alimony, but he was also a gun enthusiast

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to elehhhhna (Original post)

Sun Dec 16, 2012, 12:30 PM

15. Personally, I blame the son more than either the mother or father.

But that's just me. I come up with some kooky thoughts every now and then.

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to egduj (Reply #15)

Sun Dec 16, 2012, 01:23 PM

41. Color me kooky as well

Watching how the mother has been pigeon holed astounds me.

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to egduj (Reply #15)

Sun Dec 16, 2012, 02:33 PM

77. I must be kooky also

The shooter is to blame for all 26 victims.

We too are asking why. We are fully cooperating with law enforcement. We are deeply saddened and still do not know now. - Peter Lanza statement. Not quoted because I just saw it again on CNN and paraphrased.

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to elehhhhna (Original post)

Sun Dec 16, 2012, 12:30 PM

16. We are all a product of our childhoods to some degree...

but I think that this goes far beyond anything that can by comprehended.

My guess is that the family of the young man is suffering because of what he did.

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to elehhhhna (Original post)

Sun Dec 16, 2012, 12:33 PM

18. Started "a new one" with another woman, I presume.

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to Eleanors38 (Reply #18)

Mon Dec 17, 2012, 01:16 AM

130. You certainly do...

..."presume," that is.



Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to regnaD kciN (Reply #130)

Mon Dec 17, 2012, 11:36 AM

180. Well, he could have married a man. Odds are, though...nc

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to elehhhhna (Original post)

Sun Dec 16, 2012, 12:33 PM

19. What the ever loving fuck are you talking about. Seriously.

 

New law guys: Marriage is until death.

I could recommend some good fundy orgs for you to look into.

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to Marinedem (Reply #19)

Sun Dec 16, 2012, 12:38 PM

22. Parenthood outlasts marriage.

Especially when your young adult child is a risk to society.

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to undeterred (Reply #22)

Sun Dec 16, 2012, 12:49 PM

29. So?

 

What proof do you have that he wasn't there for his son?

None?

Oh. Good.

What is it with people doing Olympics level mental gymnastics in order to spread the personal blame for this incident onto anyone but the low down piece of worm infested dog shit that shot those poor children and teachers?

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to Marinedem (Reply #29)

Sun Dec 16, 2012, 01:06 PM

37. I guess the proof is in the body count.

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to undeterred (Reply #37)

Sun Dec 16, 2012, 01:50 PM

57. You're a shitty guesser

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to Shivering Jemmy (Reply #57)

Sun Dec 16, 2012, 04:31 PM

115. Yeah, and you're a genius.

Last edited Mon Dec 17, 2012, 07:21 AM - Edit history (1)

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to undeterred (Reply #37)

Mon Dec 17, 2012, 04:03 AM

135. I thought that both the brother and father said they hadn't spoken to Adam in years.

I thought how sad that must be for a child - sick or not.

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to Michigan Alum (Reply #135)

Mon Dec 17, 2012, 07:07 AM

144. I agree.

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to Marinedem (Reply #29)

Sun Dec 16, 2012, 01:25 PM

42. Bravo

Thank you

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to undeterred (Reply #22)

Sun Dec 16, 2012, 02:44 PM

83. Responsibility for safety issues of the former spouse's personal property,

however, does NOT.

And the father is not responsible for the acts of his adult son.

The mom dropped the ball. She knew her son well. She, of all people, should have known the importance of locking the guns up when not in use.

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to elehhhhna (Original post)

Sun Dec 16, 2012, 12:35 PM

20. Did he fail to secure firearms used in a mass murder?

Tell us more about why the couple divorced.

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to elehhhhna (Original post)

Sun Dec 16, 2012, 12:39 PM

24. She filed for divorce

The dad gave her more than he was legally required to do & at his insistence!! If she cut him out of her life & his son, doesn't sound to me like that's his fault.

But of course we have to blame a man for this. something like this can NEVER be the fault of a woman.

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to elehhhhna (Original post)

Sun Dec 16, 2012, 12:40 PM

25. "Abandoned"? What a pig-ignorant post. nt

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to elehhhhna (Original post)

Sun Dec 16, 2012, 12:40 PM

26. Please describe how Peter Lanza...

"...abandoned his 'first' family...".

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to ChisolmTrailDem (Reply #26)

Mon Dec 17, 2012, 07:34 AM

153. Cheated. Nt

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to elehhhhna (Original post)

Sun Dec 16, 2012, 12:43 PM

28. Really????

What a load of bullshit.

RL

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to RetroLounge (Reply #28)

Sun Dec 16, 2012, 01:04 PM

36. Hit & Run OP too. eom

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to ChisolmTrailDem (Reply #36)

Sun Dec 16, 2012, 03:02 PM

91. been here for years. hardly a hit/run poster

pay attention

And, some of y'all need to work on your reading comprehension, I see

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to elehhhhna (Reply #91)

Sun Dec 16, 2012, 03:34 PM

99. Hit & run posting has nothing to do with how long you've been here...

It's when someone posts an OP and then doesn't stick around to tend to it and participate in the conversation.

I know you been here for years (your profile/post count makes that clear) and I have no issue with you and I'm glad you returned to the thread.

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to ChisolmTrailDem (Reply #99)

Sun Dec 16, 2012, 03:48 PM

103. the first sentence of the OP alludes to the point

well, it MORE than alludes to the point. Commentary on the rush to judgement of the mother, no mention of the father, etc.





Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to elehhhhna (Original post)

Sun Dec 16, 2012, 12:51 PM

31. wise up.

It's not about you.

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to elehhhhna (Original post)

Sun Dec 16, 2012, 01:00 PM

34. Way to elevate the discussion. Not.

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to elehhhhna (Original post)

Sun Dec 16, 2012, 01:04 PM

35. Well, that is the usual.

It has always been a woman's fault, never a man's fault. He had no responsibility whatsoever for raising his son to know right from wrong. That fell on her shoulders.

That is pretty much how the majority of people always look at it. Have you noticed that too?

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to Jamastiene (Reply #35)

Sun Dec 16, 2012, 02:57 PM

90. In a gun case I'd usually place the blame on the father

since that's who usually takes the kids out to hunt or is usually the one who is more involved in the gun culture. (At least that's the case where I live. Yes, women here hunt and yes, they collect but the majority are white lower-middle and "middle-middle" class males.) In this case, the child had some sort of mental issues and yet the mother kept dangerous weapons around. She should have thought about her own safety and the safety of her child.

I have a friend-big gun enthusiast/gun rights/NRA-type. He made the statement that if any of his children ever show any signs of any kind of mental health issues he'll move the guns immediately out of his house. (He has a friend who will keep them for him.) A coworker from years back did just that-her son showed signs of depression and she moved their guns out of their house (and got him the treatment he needed.) I remember her asking coworkers if they had room in their gun cabinets for her rifles and explaining exactly why. In her case, even though her hunting rifles were kept in a locked cabinet she didn't trust it and knew that, if push came to shove, there might be a chance he could get access. (She made mention of him getting the keys while she slept.)

It's not a mother/father issue here. It's not a gun issue. It's about responsible gun ownership and this woman was irresponsible. If the father still lived in the home and this had happened he too would also be partly responsible for what happened. Responsible gun owners do not keep weapons of that caliber in a home with someone who has diagnosed illnesses.

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to Jamastiene (Reply #35)

Sun Dec 16, 2012, 03:10 PM

93. Yeah. When she kicks him out of the house and cashes the $250,000 annual alimony check.

The downside is she's responsible for what subsequently takes place in her home.

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to elehhhhna (Original post)

Sun Dec 16, 2012, 01:12 PM

39. It is easier to smear the dead.

Even the murdered.

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to elehhhhna (Original post)

Sun Dec 16, 2012, 01:25 PM

43. Probably because they were apparently HER guns, left unlocked. nt

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to elehhhhna (Original post)

Sun Dec 16, 2012, 01:38 PM

47. An Absent Dad Is Never Good

as a child of a somewhat disturbed and sometimes alcoholic mother - she was scary, and my dad was a gentle soul who never recovered from PTSD from WWII was scared of her too. He moved here when I was in my preteens, but it was too late. I didn't know him, he never sent birthday, Christmas cards, nothing. At that age, I shunned him for leaving us with this crazy woman and then he passed away a few years later.

My mother pretty much ruined the lives of her kids.
I survived, but she still haunts me, even though she's been dead for 30 years.

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to elehhhhna (Original post)

Sun Dec 16, 2012, 01:39 PM

48. wow, are you not a deep thinker. You know people get divorced, right?

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to elehhhhna (Original post)

Sun Dec 16, 2012, 01:39 PM

49. That is how it always goes.

If dad did bad things or was negligent, then mom will be blamed for causing his behavior, too.

So much speculation, and almost all targeting mom. Telling, but far from surprising.

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to redqueen (Reply #49)

Sun Dec 16, 2012, 02:11 PM

66. Well, he did live with his mom and it was her guns used.

Seems appropriate that blame is being placed on her and not the father.

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to tammywammy (Reply #66)

Sun Dec 16, 2012, 02:43 PM

82. No

Blame should be placed on the shooter. Not the mother or father but the shooter.

COme on, people!

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to Sissyk (Reply #82)

Mon Dec 17, 2012, 09:32 AM

177. What about the gun access?

She didn't pull the triggers but she didn't secure the guns from a disturbed son. That's huge. Without the guns, no massacre.

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to brush (Reply #177)

Mon Dec 17, 2012, 04:32 PM

192. Again,

No information has been released that says the guns were not secure.

It is the shooter that pulled the trigger. Mom was a victim.

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to Sissyk (Reply #192)

Mon Dec 17, 2012, 05:19 PM

193. You're ignoring the obvious

Of course they weren't secured or we would be talking about this.

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to tammywammy (Reply #66)

Mon Dec 17, 2012, 07:25 AM

150. There is not enough information

to blame either the mother or father. Unless we learn of horrific abuse by them, truly, Adam Lanza was an adult who did this one his own. His mother did not put the gun in his hand and tell him to kill people. His mother was one of his victims.

Why are we blaming her?

BC it helps us make sense of this totally senseless act.

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to elehhhhna (Original post)

Sun Dec 16, 2012, 01:43 PM

50. Abadoned his 'first' family?

What proof do you have of this? I've read that he was very upset about the divorce and was generous with alimony over his lawyers advice. How do you know he didn't fight for custody and lost? How do you know he didn't spend time with his children? You don't know--this is a hit and run OP if I've ever seen one.

The only 'blame' I would 'place' on mom is having so many guns in a home where there was an mentally unstable adult. It appears they weren't secured, but as far as I know we don't know that for sure. If they were maybe he overpowered her and some how gained access. But in any case, I don't think it was wise to even have them in the house. Maybe she didn't think/know he was as ill as he was.

It's so easy to point fingers--we want and need someone to blame. I blame the lack of mental health care in the country. The stigma still attached to mental illness. We need to fix the system to care for people who have mental illness and make them throw away people, or hide them.

I will wait until all the details are out before I come to any conclusions--as to the mother, father etc. I've already stated my feelings on the mental health care the country provides

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to elehhhhna (Original post)

Sun Dec 16, 2012, 01:45 PM

52. Um, from Newtown to Stamford is like less than an hour away.

He stayed in Connecticut. Anywhere in CT is not that far away, we are the third smallest state in the United States. Also, Adam Lanza was about 17 when his parents divorced. Not a young child by any means.

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to Jennicut (Reply #52)

Sun Dec 16, 2012, 01:49 PM

55. Careful

 

Probably not a good idea to let facts get in the way of an old fashioned "all divorced dads are evil" thread.

It's the man's fault etc.

Stick to the script.

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to Jennicut (Reply #52)

Sun Dec 16, 2012, 01:55 PM

59. Exactly. They were only divorced three years ago.

Yet most of the comments here target "mom" as if he had nothing to do with his sons life.

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to elehhhhna (Original post)

Sun Dec 16, 2012, 01:51 PM

58. Does blaming anyone make anyone seriously feel better?

I have never understood the blame game.

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to elehhhhna (Original post)

Sun Dec 16, 2012, 02:01 PM

62. Maybe after the guns began stacking up he feared for his own safety?

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to elehhhhna (Original post)

Sun Dec 16, 2012, 02:04 PM

63. This is complete Bullshit.

My wife ambushed me with divorce papers after 28 years of marriage. The first I knew she was considering one was when the process server put the papers in my hand. I tried for reconciliation and she would have none of it. She and her lawyer got me thrown out of my house, forced me to take out a huge loan to pay the insane legal bills they ran up, and she gets 2/3 of my income for the indefinite future. It cost well over six figures in legal bills much of which I (not her) still owe to BOTH lawyers and the ONLY thing I contested was how much time I had with my children.

Because she never worked during the marriage, I am legally obligated to pay her full support for the rest of her life. She is 50. She is obviously mentally/emotionally unstable and there is NOTHING I can do about it. The court awarded me a few days per month with my children after a very expensive fight and she tells them constantly what a bad person I am, how her life is so hard, and that I don't love them because I won't pay for their future college or expensive summer camps. She doesn't mention that I can't do that because my retirement is gone and I can barely pay my monthly bills. Her constant messaging is having the desired effect: They are often wary and emotionally distant when they come over.

She is a very sick and angry person who sounds a great deal like Mrs. Lanza; minus the guns, thank god---with a lawyer who is happy to be her "protector". She has hundreds of thousands of dollars at her disposal. I have $363.46 in my savings account. I found a wonderful divorced woman in my church choir, we fell in love and are now very happily married with her two young daughters and we live a small, happy life in a small house. When I have my kids (and the rest of the time, too), we do everything we can to model what a happy and healthy family is, but make no mistake: their mother has a huge influence on them and it is NOT good.

So, until you know a little more about Mr. Lanza than you do, I suggest you keep what you think he "must" be like to yourself.

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to mn9driver (Reply #63)

Sun Dec 16, 2012, 02:13 PM

67. this is not about you


although I can't see how the courts granted her 2/3rds of your income unless your name is Mr. Duggar. SOunds like you had a lousy lawyer. I'm sorry you got dealt such a bad hand, though.

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to elehhhhna (Reply #67)

Sun Dec 16, 2012, 02:28 PM

75. That's right. The thread is about Mr. Lanza, who no one here knows anything about. /nt

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to mn9driver (Reply #75)

Sun Dec 16, 2012, 02:46 PM

84. this thread is actually about people blaming the mother

and suggesting the father had no responsibility here and was, to many peole, overfullfiling his parental duties by paying extra support.

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to elehhhhna (Reply #84)

Sun Dec 16, 2012, 02:55 PM

88. That would be why you started it like this:

"Lots of blame for the Mother. Apparently Dad's off the hook , though,

I guess b/c he abandoned his "first" family and started a new one?"

Right.

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to mn9driver (Reply #88)

Sun Dec 16, 2012, 03:28 PM

97. we have an ignore feature. use it.

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to elehhhhna (Reply #97)

Sun Dec 16, 2012, 03:48 PM

102. Heh. I think I'll retain the ability to view and rebut.

Thanks for pointing that out, though.

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to elehhhhna (Reply #67)

Mon Dec 17, 2012, 01:19 PM

189. Some states recognize that women are owed an equitable distribution of the assets, not just the

50-50 split. When you spend the majority of your life raising kids, making a home, making it possible for the father of the children to work, you earn rights to not just child support, but alimony that compensates you for the decisions you made as a family.

I did family law before I did criminal defense. IMHO, 99 out 100 times, anyone who tells you they were 'surprised' by divorce papers wasn't paying attention to the shithole of the marriage.

What I normally find very telling in these situations is how quickly a 'new' family unit is formed, complete with children.

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to mn9driver (Reply #63)

Sun Dec 16, 2012, 02:25 PM

73. Exactly

The courts treat men as devils and women as angels, even when there is overwhelming evidence to the contrary. And there's just about nothing that a non-custodial parent can do to get their kid some effective treatment before they turn eighteen.

Been there, done that, got the tee shirt. Thanks for posting this to the blamers.

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to mn9driver (Reply #63)

Sun Dec 16, 2012, 02:41 PM

79. Well you beat me there

Wish I had $363.46 in a savings account. I don't even have a savings account.



Don

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to mn9driver (Reply #63)

Tue Dec 18, 2012, 03:08 PM

203. Hey MN9driver

Puglover retired crew coordinator here. Oh yeah, now they're "trackers"

Anyway nice to "see" you and I just wanted to say I am sorry to hear you went through so many troubles. I'm also happy to here that in the end things turned out so well for you.

I am on a 2nd marriage as well. And at least to me, they are the best things ever!

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to elehhhhna (Original post)

Sun Dec 16, 2012, 02:08 PM

64. I am not sure blaming anyone is the answer, but that's what people do.

We try to make some sort of sense out of something horrific and nonsensical so that we can manage it better in our own minds.

From what we've been told, Adam Lanza was a desperately troubled young man, isolated in a home with his mother who was preoccupied with turning it into a fortress in preparation for doomsday. His father lived in a town with his new family and it was probably easier for him to not pay attention to what was going on with his son. Both parents failed him; the kid had no support system whatsoever.

My heart grieves for Adam just as much as it does for him victims. I wish someone had cared and helped him somewhere along the way.

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to Avalux (Reply #64)

Mon Dec 17, 2012, 08:11 AM

165. I am seeing a lot of evidence that his mother did love and care for him.

Love and care is not enough with severe mental illness, particularly the kind that is so well hidden until it erupts.

We don't know what his relationship was with his dad.

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to elehhhhna (Original post)

Sun Dec 16, 2012, 02:08 PM

65. Don't ever let a ...

... blame it on men opportunity slip by unused.

What a pantload.

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to elehhhhna (Original post)

Sun Dec 16, 2012, 02:19 PM

70. I do not blame either one.

I blame the shooter, and the shooter only.

I have said in other threads that the mother is a victim. She was the first victim as far as we know.

I dint blame the father either. He is a living victim.

How do you know he abandoned his first family?

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to elehhhhna (Original post)

Sun Dec 16, 2012, 02:22 PM

72. Reasons for the divorce aside

wasn't she the one who purchased the weapons used?

If you want to possibly prevent your kid from meeting a similar fate, ask if his/her kindergarten teacher has both weapons and an unstable loser son at home.

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to elehhhhna (Original post)

Sun Dec 16, 2012, 02:27 PM

74. Enough with the blame. How about some solutions for a change.

We are all to blame and we all need to work on solutions instead of pointing fingers.

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to Starboard Tack (Reply #74)

Sun Dec 16, 2012, 02:48 PM

85. +1000

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to Starboard Tack (Reply #74)

Sun Dec 16, 2012, 03:54 PM

106. +2000 nt

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to Starboard Tack (Reply #74)

Sun Dec 16, 2012, 03:56 PM

107. We're ALL to blame?

Did you actually type that and mean it?

That's not just stupid and dead wrong, it's downright offensive.

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to 99Forever (Reply #107)

Sun Dec 16, 2012, 04:13 PM

109. Yes I did mean it. And it should offend. We need to be offended.

Every last one of us is responsible. And we will be responsible for the next one too and the one after that until we do something about it. I signed a petition today asking for a re-examination of the Second Amendment. It doesn't take away my sense of blame. I'm part of a society that puts an individual's right to carry guns above the safety of the most vulnerable and innocent. We are all to blame for that, to one degree or another. Finger pointing isn't going to help.
Calling the NRA evil is all well and good, but doesn't solve the problem. Our voice needs to be louder and LOUDER!

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to Starboard Tack (Reply #109)

Sun Dec 16, 2012, 04:20 PM

112. How am I to blame?

Because I don't have the funds to buy Congress like the fucking NRA does? Because I haven't personally gone door to door to every dwelling in the land and taken their guns away? Just what the fuck is it you think I could have done that I failed to do? Specifically.

Ri-fucking-diculous.

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to 99Forever (Reply #112)

Sun Dec 16, 2012, 04:28 PM

113. Because you are also a member of society.

We all share a piece of this. If you are indifferent then so be it. It isn't for me to tell you what you, as an individual could or might do. That's up to you. I fight this fight every day and I'm to blame as much as any other.
If you have a problem with the word "blame" I can understand. Call it "responsibility".
You have a voice, use it. Use it to make change, not to defend yourself for being helpless.

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to Starboard Tack (Reply #113)

Sun Dec 16, 2012, 04:37 PM

118. What utter hogwash.

For your information, I already do all of those things and have for years, where the fuck have you been? You know the stuff you just claimed I wasn't doing. So no, I'll take zero % of the "blame" or the "responsibility" or any other damn label you put on it.


Ri-fucking-diculous.

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to 99Forever (Reply #118)

Sun Dec 16, 2012, 04:52 PM

122. It's OK. We're on the same side.

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to Starboard Tack (Reply #74)

Mon Dec 17, 2012, 07:27 AM

151. You're a hypocrite.

You don't want any blaming but you turn around and blame everyone. Please speak for yourself and leave me out of it.

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to tedzbear (Reply #151)

Mon Dec 17, 2012, 11:59 AM

182. When I say we are all to blame, I mean as a society we are all to blame.

Sorry, but nobody gets left out until we fix it.

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to elehhhhna (Original post)

Sun Dec 16, 2012, 02:37 PM

78. She supplied the weapons of mass destruction. nt

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to valerief (Reply #78)

Mon Dec 17, 2012, 09:02 AM

171. To me, that really is

the bottom line. And there is no excuse for it. None

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to elehhhhna (Original post)

Sun Dec 16, 2012, 02:42 PM

80. In what way did the father have control over the mother's

unsecured guns??

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to elehhhhna (Original post)

Sun Dec 16, 2012, 02:52 PM

86. Wow just wow

Speaking in blanket generalities and inditments I could posit some statements about you just off your op...but it would be just as bad as you op statement....

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to Drew Richards (Reply #86)

Sun Dec 16, 2012, 03:31 PM

98. and thy shall know them by their spelling


whatever

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to elehhhhna (Reply #98)

Mon Dec 17, 2012, 01:22 AM

131. "THY shall know them by their spelling"...?

Or their grammar, apparently.



Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to elehhhhna (Original post)

Sun Dec 16, 2012, 02:53 PM

87. Well, she was a she. What more do we need?

 


& R

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to elehhhhna (Original post)

Sun Dec 16, 2012, 03:04 PM

92. Nope. No misandry on DU.

You're right. Dad is off the hook, because he's not the one to blame.

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to lumberjack_jeff (Reply #92)

Mon Dec 17, 2012, 08:13 AM

166. As the poster of the op that started this...

I would have blamed the dad had he been the one who directly enabled this tragedy. If in fact he also was a gun nut, a survivalist, and participated in the training of their mentally disturbed child in the art of gun slaughter, then he shares some of the blame. We all share some of the blame in fact, but that is a somewhat separate and very complicated issue.

Nancy Lanza kept a huge amount of ammunition, multiple magazines, etc for her several semi auto weapons. She did this (and I am speculating based on the reports of her survivalist beliefs) because she feared she would need to fight off some unspecified threat with all this firepower. She failed to keep her small arsenal secured. She kept these unsecured weapons in her home with her mentally disturbed child. Sorry if people find these facts discomforting. She directly enabled this tragedy.

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to elehhhhna (Original post)

Sun Dec 16, 2012, 03:18 PM

95. Try this one on for size. If custody had been awarded to dad, maybe this wouldn't have happened.

It's no more loaded and biased than your premise.

It does have one ethical advantage, though; I'm not circling the wagons around the owner of the gun used to murder 20 first graders.

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to elehhhhna (Original post)

Sun Dec 16, 2012, 03:23 PM

96. Sounds like dad left all that "old-family" trouble behind--wonder if he kept

in touch with his son and ex-wife, especially given the young man's difficulties? If not, shame on him.

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to elehhhhna (Original post)

Sun Dec 16, 2012, 03:46 PM

101. How do you know he abandoned them. I wouldn't say 28 yr married is abandment.

 

Maybe he got tired of her crazy ways with the end of the civilized world issues. Maybe it was just to much for him. His older son I think lives in NJ as the father. I'm not sure. The younger boy did have a choice.

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to southernyankeebelle (Reply #101)

Mon Dec 17, 2012, 07:35 AM

154. Dad was cheating, hence the divorce. Nt

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to IdaBriggs (Reply #154)

Mon Dec 17, 2012, 07:52 AM

158. There are tons of people who cheat on spouses but it doesn't lead to a 20 yr old

 

killing children.

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to southernyankeebelle (Reply #158)

Mon Dec 17, 2012, 08:59 AM

170. He "abandoned" the marriage by cheating.

I responded only to your statement that he didn't "abandon" the marriage. While she initiated the divorce proceedings, he was the guy who screwed around. Alimony doesn't excuse the damage such behavior does to all parties involved, including children.

You take your victims as you find them. Many people don't end up with violence in their family with this type of history. Some do.

I am not privy to this family's private life, but for my money, Dad deserves blame as well as Mom. Perhaps if he had been a better partner with the mother of his children, they would have been able to work together to look out for the best interests of their son, and by extension, the other children in the community.

It is a "moral" judgment, not a legal one. Your opinion my differ.

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to IdaBriggs (Reply #154)

Mon Dec 17, 2012, 11:41 AM

181. Do you have a link for that claim? n/t

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to Fumesucker (Reply #181)

Mon Dec 17, 2012, 12:47 PM

186. At least one link in one of the half a dozen

Threads discussed it. I read it from a link here on DU - something about he cheated, she hung out at a local watering hole drinking Chardonnay and only rarely talking about her personal troubles, but was bitter about the divorce, etc.

You can read through the different threads yourself or do a search. I find the topic depressing.

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to IdaBriggs (Reply #186)

Mon Dec 17, 2012, 12:50 PM

187. I've read a bunch of threads on this and haven't seen that

Given the amount of outright false information on this incident so far I wouldn't believe a bit of hearsay without substantial corroboration.

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to southernyankeebelle (Reply #101)

Mon Dec 17, 2012, 08:15 AM

167. Abandoned has a specific meaning in a divorce situation.

I rather doubt the op can back that claim up. They got divorced, she got custody. I rather suspect that there was no abandonment at all.

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to Warren Stupidity (Reply #167)

Mon Dec 17, 2012, 08:33 AM

168. i agree with your opinion also. Although divorice is very hard I don't think he just

 

up and left after 28 yrs of marriage.

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to southernyankeebelle (Reply #168)

Mon Dec 17, 2012, 12:15 PM

183. 280,000/yr alimony == abandoned.

That doesn't include child support. That was former-wife support.

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to Warren Stupidity (Reply #183)

Mon Dec 17, 2012, 12:32 PM

185. Yep she was crying all the way to the bank.

 

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to elehhhhna (Original post)

Sun Dec 16, 2012, 03:49 PM

104. now let's mix some gender bashing into this wonderful event.....

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to elehhhhna (Original post)

Sun Dec 16, 2012, 03:52 PM

105. Wow. That's a pretty desperate stretch. 2/10

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to elehhhhna (Original post)

Sun Dec 16, 2012, 04:18 PM

111. I wish Mom had kept her impressive gun collection locked away (nt)

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to Nye Bevan (Reply #111)

Mon Dec 17, 2012, 12:44 AM

126. How do you know she didn't?

Bright 20-year olds have been known to pick locks, find keys, and figure out combinations before.

I don't think blaming the victim (one of them) is helping, especially while the investigation is stil being conducted.

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to elehhhhna (Original post)

Sun Dec 16, 2012, 04:29 PM

114. I betcha that was the reason for the divorce. He'd found himself a new sweetie. nt

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to raccoon (Reply #114)

Sun Dec 16, 2012, 04:35 PM

116. Yes, all men are evil philanderers

 

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to Floyd_Gondolli (Reply #116)

Sun Dec 16, 2012, 04:39 PM

120. That scenario happened to several people in my family. In one case, my family member

was the sweetie.

I guess most people speak from their personal experience.


Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to raccoon (Reply #120)

Sun Dec 16, 2012, 04:49 PM

121. As long as we're speaking anecdotally

 

I've seen it go the other way with people I know and have personally experienced it in a long term relationship. Absolutes are for the obtuse.

Truth is, it doesn't matter who was fucking who. The guns were in her name, and in her house.

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to raccoon (Reply #114)

Mon Dec 17, 2012, 01:24 AM

132. I betcha you don't know jack shit about what happened

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to elehhhhna (Original post)

Sun Dec 16, 2012, 04:38 PM

119. doubt it

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to elehhhhna (Original post)

Mon Dec 17, 2012, 04:06 AM

136. Emphatic K&R! But please do see my OP started in response to your

 

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to elehhhhna (Original post)

Mon Dec 17, 2012, 05:01 AM

138. i'm not letting him off the hook, i would like to hear more from him

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to elehhhhna (Original post)

Mon Dec 17, 2012, 05:27 AM

139. He tried to atone for his cheating, at least

The divorce was an amicable one, and he supported his ex-wife completely so that she would never have to work again.

http://news.yahoo.com/gunmans-mother-kept-trials-home-life-hidden-010414000.html

Compare that with, say, scumbags like Newt Gingrich.

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to elehhhhna (Original post)

Mon Dec 17, 2012, 07:13 AM

148. "Daddy didn't give attention to the fact that mommy didn't care"

Those words have never been more true.

It is about parenting, friends, and it does take a village.

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to underpants (Reply #148)

Tue Dec 18, 2012, 06:03 PM

208. I've been thinking of that song and that video too...

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to elehhhhna (Original post)

Mon Dec 17, 2012, 07:28 AM

152. Does EVERY issue on DU have to boil down to the man v. woman thing?

It's getting old.

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to joeunderdog (Reply #152)

Mon Dec 17, 2012, 07:56 AM

162. Amen! nt

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to elehhhhna (Original post)

Mon Dec 17, 2012, 12:32 PM

184. People do this after every shooting. It's not fair.

After Virginia Tech, people tourchered Cho's family, and blamed them for the massacre (including, ironically, death threats). They were victims too.

The truth is, nobody knows what was going on at the house, or with the family. The media is sensationalist and useless.

Adam Lanza was an adult. His mother is dead. His brother lost a brother and mom, and his father lost a son and ex-wife. Let's leave them alone. They feel horrible enough.

There's such an obsession with blame and justice in this country. It's why nothing ever gets done.

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to elehhhhna (Original post)

Mon Dec 17, 2012, 01:09 PM

188. Are you saying people should remain married forever no matter what?

 

even if they have irreconcilable differences?

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to elehhhhna (Original post)

Tue Dec 18, 2012, 05:07 PM

206. Or perhaps because when he left her he promised her she'd never have to work again?

Interesting to think about.

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink

Reply to this thread