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Sun Dec 16, 2012, 09:35 AM

I'm 55 years old and have never owned a gun in my life.

Have I shot one-- sure---I was in the Airborne Infantry.

I've shot pretty much every weapon imaginable---all the way up to a 50mm machine gun. But again---that was in the Military.

But in civilian life... never had a reason to own one.

Personal protection? From what, the off chance someone breaks in my house? Well, it hasn't happened in 55 years.

A hobby? Perhaps... but once you've shot a 50mm, a handgun is quite boring.

Hunting? Nah---not really into killing animals.

Collecting? Not my thing.

I just can't imagine having a loaded gun on my night stand because of the small chance of an intrusion by a bad guy.

I can't tell you how many times over the last 15 years where my kids have entered my room while I'm asleep and wake me up for some random problem. If you are a parent you know that kids wake you up in the weirdest ways. They don't come in and shake you---they just stand over you waiting for you to sense they are there and wake up. Startles the shit out of me every time. If I had a gun on my nightstand or close by, would I have drawn on my wife or kids over the years??? Who knows.

OR---my curious Boys as they grew up---would they find Dad's gun and check it out. I think its been know to happen a few times where kids have found Dads gun and accidentally fired a shot---and the shot end up in the head of the sibling standing nearby.

I'd love to see some statistics on how many people have used a gun and saved themselves from an intruder or bad guy.

Funny but I don't see too many stories of that happening. Oh sure it has happened---even have some you tubes of it happening.

Then I'd like to see a statistic of how many have been slaughtered by guns with incidents like Aurora and Sandy Hook---or---accidental shootings when kids find their parents guns---etc.

I'm pretty sure the stats would be incredibly lopsided.







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Reply I'm 55 years old and have never owned a gun in my life. (Original post)
trumad Dec 2012 OP
lillypaddle Dec 2012 #1
Coyotl Dec 2012 #11
Bibliovore Dec 2012 #49
iemitsu Dec 2012 #58
Coyotl Dec 2012 #68
iemitsu Dec 2012 #70
Coyotl Dec 2012 #71
iemitsu Dec 2012 #73
freshwest Dec 2012 #103
Eric the Reddish Dec 2012 #104
Sheepshank Dec 2012 #140
sanatanadharma Dec 2012 #152
lapislzi Dec 2012 #161
ReRe Dec 2012 #2
cantbeserious Dec 2012 #3
blueamy66 Dec 2012 #4
llmart Dec 2012 #5
trumad Dec 2012 #8
llmart Dec 2012 #22
Bluenorthwest Dec 2012 #6
WooWooWoo Dec 2012 #7
relayerbob Dec 2012 #9
justanidea Dec 2012 #10
pscot Dec 2012 #45
TheCowsCameHome Dec 2012 #62
laundry_queen Dec 2012 #125
Aristus Dec 2012 #129
Tutonic Dec 2012 #12
Cooley Hurd Dec 2012 #18
JimDandy Dec 2012 #75
klook Dec 2012 #127
JimDandy Dec 2012 #130
Freddie Dec 2012 #13
svpadgham Dec 2012 #14
genxlib Dec 2012 #15
allan01 Dec 2012 #16
Freddie Dec 2012 #17
mainstreetonce Dec 2012 #19
PrMaine Dec 2012 #38
JimDandy Dec 2012 #79
NJCher Dec 2012 #20
Hepburn Dec 2012 #21
ProgressiveProfessor Dec 2012 #23
AllyCat Dec 2012 #35
ProgressiveProfessor Dec 2012 #43
Sarah Ibarruri Dec 2012 #53
ProgressiveProfessor Dec 2012 #83
Sarah Ibarruri Dec 2012 #92
ProgressiveProfessor Dec 2012 #93
Sarah Ibarruri Dec 2012 #94
ProgressiveProfessor Dec 2012 #95
Sarah Ibarruri Dec 2012 #96
ProgressiveProfessor Dec 2012 #98
Sarah Ibarruri Dec 2012 #113
ProgressiveProfessor Dec 2012 #114
Sarah Ibarruri Dec 2012 #115
ProgressiveProfessor Dec 2012 #116
Sarah Ibarruri Dec 2012 #117
ProgressiveProfessor Dec 2012 #118
Sarah Ibarruri Dec 2012 #119
WinniSkipper Dec 2012 #122
Sarah Ibarruri Dec 2012 #133
ProgressiveProfessor Dec 2012 #137
Sarah Ibarruri Dec 2012 #144
ProgressiveProfessor Dec 2012 #145
Sarah Ibarruri Dec 2012 #147
ProgressiveProfessor Dec 2012 #148
ProgressiveProfessor Dec 2012 #124
The Magistrate Dec 2012 #126
Sarah Ibarruri Dec 2012 #131
ProgressiveProfessor Dec 2012 #135
Sarah Ibarruri Dec 2012 #139
ProgressiveProfessor Dec 2012 #141
WinniSkipper Dec 2012 #121
Sarah Ibarruri Dec 2012 #134
ProgressiveProfessor Dec 2012 #136
Sarah Ibarruri Dec 2012 #138
ProgressiveProfessor Dec 2012 #142
Sarah Ibarruri Dec 2012 #151
ProgressiveProfessor Dec 2012 #153
Sarah Ibarruri Dec 2012 #158
ProgressiveProfessor Dec 2012 #163
DeschutesRiver Dec 2012 #162
WinniSkipper Dec 2012 #149
Sarah Ibarruri Dec 2012 #150
ProgressiveProfessor Dec 2012 #154
Sarah Ibarruri Dec 2012 #157
ProgressiveProfessor Dec 2012 #164
Sarah Ibarruri Dec 2012 #170
ProgressiveProfessor Dec 2012 #171
Sarah Ibarruri Dec 2012 #174
ProgressiveProfessor Dec 2012 #176
Sarah Ibarruri Dec 2012 #177
ProgressiveProfessor Dec 2012 #179
WinniSkipper Dec 2012 #168
Sarah Ibarruri Dec 2012 #169
ProgressiveProfessor Dec 2012 #172
Sarah Ibarruri Dec 2012 #173
ProgressiveProfessor Dec 2012 #175
Sarah Ibarruri Dec 2012 #178
ProgressiveProfessor Dec 2012 #180
WinniSkipper Dec 2012 #120
AllyCat Dec 2012 #99
ProgressiveProfessor Dec 2012 #100
jeff47 Dec 2012 #102
eridani Dec 2012 #108
ProgressiveProfessor Dec 2012 #109
Myrina Dec 2012 #24
salinen Dec 2012 #25
Iggo Dec 2012 #33
Comrade_McKenzie Dec 2012 #26
forestpath Dec 2012 #27
Atypical Liberal Dec 2012 #28
xtraxritical Dec 2012 #60
sweetloukillbot Dec 2012 #80
Maineman Dec 2012 #29
PrMaine Dec 2012 #41
Maineman Dec 2012 #30
riverbendviewgal Dec 2012 #31
mgc1961 Dec 2012 #32
bulloney Dec 2012 #34
treestar Dec 2012 #52
Love Bug Dec 2012 #36
Harriety Dec 2012 #37
LynneSin Dec 2012 #39
Hell Hath No Fury Dec 2012 #128
Buzz Clik Dec 2012 #40
trumad Dec 2012 #57
madokie Dec 2012 #42
the devil Dec 2012 #44
madinmaryland Dec 2012 #46
joanbarnes Dec 2012 #47
UndahCovah Dec 2012 #48
Puglover Dec 2012 #50
treestar Dec 2012 #51
LibDemAlways Dec 2012 #54
jdadd Dec 2012 #55
Warpy Dec 2012 #56
iemitsu Dec 2012 #64
Warpy Dec 2012 #66
iemitsu Dec 2012 #69
JimDandy Dec 2012 #85
Chorophyll Dec 2012 #59
Glitterati Dec 2012 #61
WiffenPoof Dec 2012 #63
FLyellowdog Dec 2012 #65
SheilaT Dec 2012 #67
etherealtruth Dec 2012 #72
Tsiyu Dec 2012 #74
Tumbulu Dec 2012 #155
Tsiyu Dec 2012 #165
Tumbulu Dec 2012 #166
Tsiyu Dec 2012 #167
El Supremo Dec 2012 #76
young_at_heart Dec 2012 #77
Blue_In_AK Dec 2012 #78
sweetloukillbot Dec 2012 #82
Blue_In_AK Dec 2012 #84
sweetloukillbot Dec 2012 #91
SomethingFishy Dec 2012 #87
Blue_In_AK Dec 2012 #88
SomethingFishy Dec 2012 #89
Exultant Democracy Dec 2012 #81
trumad Dec 2012 #90
ProSense Dec 2012 #86
Strelnikov_ Dec 2012 #97
Booster Dec 2012 #101
malaise Dec 2012 #105
lbrtbell Dec 2012 #106
RBInMaine Dec 2012 #107
trumad Dec 2012 #110
ProgressiveProfessor Dec 2012 #143
Martin Eden Dec 2012 #111
tedzbear Dec 2012 #112
Octafish Dec 2012 #123
Romulox Dec 2012 #132
kentauros Dec 2012 #146
mwrguy Dec 2012 #156
Texasgal Dec 2012 #159
RantinRavin Dec 2012 #160

Response to trumad (Original post)

Sun Dec 16, 2012, 09:36 AM

1. K&R nt

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Response to lillypaddle (Reply #1)

Sun Dec 16, 2012, 09:57 AM

11. This image answers the OP stats questions



so I put it near the top of the thread.

I've eaten a good bit of meat I've killed, but I prefer fishing today.
As a child, I could hit a running rabbit in the distance with the 22 rifle I got for Christmas (yeah, ironic!).
In college, I was trained in marksmanship with military rifles.
Guns have their legitimate uses. But, bear, elk, and moose don't wander into bedrooms.

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Response to Coyotl (Reply #11)

Sun Dec 16, 2012, 11:37 AM

49. Thanks for this, both the stats and the commentary

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Response to Coyotl (Reply #11)

Sun Dec 16, 2012, 12:03 PM

58. I want to thank you for the graphic too.

Its short and clear and reveals how all the "good" reasons for having a gun in the home are just fantasy.

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Response to iemitsu (Reply #58)

Sun Dec 16, 2012, 12:40 PM

68. I think I'll put this in its own thread.

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Response to Coyotl (Reply #68)

Sun Dec 16, 2012, 12:42 PM

70. You should, it needs to be seen by many.

I have copied it and plan to hang it in my classroom.

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Response to iemitsu (Reply #70)

Sun Dec 16, 2012, 12:44 PM

71. DONE: Protect Your Home from a Killer, the Handgun.

http://www.democraticunderground.com/10021999923

Please help make the image go VIRAL! Tweet, Like, Share the thread.

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Response to Coyotl (Reply #71)

Sun Dec 16, 2012, 12:54 PM

73. Roger, wilco.

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Response to Coyotl (Reply #71)

Mon Dec 17, 2012, 04:59 AM

103. Good one. Won't change many minds here, but anyway.

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Response to Coyotl (Reply #11)

Mon Dec 17, 2012, 05:09 AM

104. Hear Hear!

 

Though a moose did wander onto my brother's farm last year. Fortunately, the moose wasn't packing and wandered away after a half an hour or so.

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Response to Coyotl (Reply #11)

Wed Dec 19, 2012, 12:18 PM

140. I now know of 2 homes robbed for the firearms on the premises....

....and several incidents just in theis last years where vehicles broken into and firearms taken that were in the cars/trucks!!!

so that cartoon needs to included "increased likleyhood of theft for the firearms". Those firearms to be used for a legal purposes, I'm sure!!!

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Response to Sheepshank (Reply #140)

Thu Dec 20, 2012, 12:04 AM

152. Guns in trucks reminds me...

...of how often, seeing a rifle on a rack in a pickup back window, I find myself wanting to commit the crime of swinging a sledge hammer through the glass and turning the rifle into a pretzel.

As it is, I fear putting political bumper stickers on my car because there are too many gun nuts willing to go postal when someone disagrees with them.

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Response to Sheepshank (Reply #140)

Thu Dec 20, 2012, 01:36 PM

161. I have to say it again.

Former gun owner here. It was a happy day when I handed that thing into the police.

I wish I remembered the name of the earnest young police recruit on the firing range when I took my lessons, back in the good old Republic of South Africa in 1990 or so. I have never forgotten his admonition.

South Africa was, and continues to be, a dangerous place. Home invasions are very common there. We slept in a locked "rape cage" consisting of iron bars outside the house and the bedroom door. One of the items most coveted by thieves was firearms.

As I took my practice, the young recruit, in his accented English, lectured me that knowing how to shoot was far from sufficient. At all times, you must know the location of your weapon, and have a clear path to it if it's not on your person. You must defend your firearm from an intruder, or it will be taken from you and used in the commission of a crime--probably against you. Don't shoot unless you're prepared to kill.

After a short while during which I lived in twitchy fear of having to use the thing, the responsibility was just too much. I got rid of it. My car got stolen. Our lawn furniture was stolen. Insurance paid and nobody died. And I didn't have my conscience stained by the knowledge that I'd killed someone, or that my gun was out there...somewhere...threatening someone else.

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Response to trumad (Original post)

Sun Dec 16, 2012, 09:42 AM

2. Same here..

K&R

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Response to trumad (Original post)

Sun Dec 16, 2012, 09:44 AM

3. Trumad - Same Here - No Need To Own A Weapon

eom

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Response to trumad (Original post)

Sun Dec 16, 2012, 09:45 AM

4. You sound just like my Dad.

 

K&R

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Response to trumad (Original post)

Sun Dec 16, 2012, 09:46 AM

5. The sane voice of a real man.....

Thank you for that. I could never understand these people who say they are "protecting their property". What? It's worth killing someone over some crap you bought at a store?

I'm an avowed minimalist and there's nothing in my small condo that I can't live without. I don't need a gun, a security system, an attack dog (my dog would wag her tail and show you the way to the cupboard where the dog treats are kept) because I refuse to live every waking moment I have left (I'm an older woman) in fear of what MIGHT happen to me.

I was married to someone like that - couldn't go anywhere, not even up to the corner ice cream stand without strapping on his gun. He lived in fear of everything and he's suffered in more ways than one because of that fear, but you could never get him to see it. It's why I'm no longer with him. He was also a bully and a coward and if a real man confronted him he'd quiver in his shoes.

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Response to llmart (Reply #5)

Sun Dec 16, 2012, 09:52 AM

8. My Brother owns a handgun...

I ask him why and he says "just in case".

I mention that he's a bit paranoid and he freely admits that he is. He's never had an incident in his 45 years on the planet---but just in case.

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Response to trumad (Reply #8)

Sun Dec 16, 2012, 10:12 AM

22. My ex is more than a bit paranoid........

It was sad to see him devolve the way he did as he got older. Hell, he's now 65 and even if he was confronted with the situation he probably couldn't get his fat ass out of the Lazy Boy fast enough to do anything.

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Response to trumad (Original post)

Sun Dec 16, 2012, 09:49 AM

6. Also never owned one.

Would not care to.

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Response to trumad (Original post)

Sun Dec 16, 2012, 09:49 AM

7. ditto

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Response to trumad (Original post)

Sun Dec 16, 2012, 09:57 AM

9. Same ... 55 and would never own a gun

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Response to trumad (Original post)

Sun Dec 16, 2012, 09:57 AM

10. My grandfather lived to be 78 and never wore his seatbelt.

 

My uncle is still alive at age 65 and has smoked 2 packs a day since he was 14.

Whats your point again?

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Response to justanidea (Reply #10)


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Response to justanidea (Reply #10)

Tue Dec 18, 2012, 12:32 PM

125. What's yours?

Sounds like you're rambling. My grandfather smoked 2 packs of day since he was 11. He lived to be 97, but was goddamn miserable for the last 20 years of his life, because the smoking took away his leg and his lungs (was on oxygen most of those 20 years). If he wouldn't have smoked, he'd have had a much better time, like my other non-smoking grandfather who lived to be 102 and, until he was 100 and broke his hip, he was very active, mentally and physically. And much happier. 65 isn't all that old, you know. Not everyone who smokes dies of lung cancer before they're 50. Some die of another cancer. Some get emphysema, some lose limbs because of circulation issues, and some have heart attacks. My ex's uncle just dropped dead from one a few months back, after being a 'healthy' smoker since his teens. He was 66 years old.


Statistically speaking, your grandfather and uncle are more likely to die from their activities than the OP is from not having a gun to 'protect himself'. Just sayin'. If the point you are trying to make is that the OP is just lucky he hasn't died from not having a gun, then it's a BIG fail.

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Response to justanidea (Reply #10)

Tue Dec 18, 2012, 01:57 PM

129. Ah! The "Winston Churchill" argument!

An oldie, but a goodie. "Winston Churchill smoked 10 cigars and 30 cigarettes a day, and lived to be 90-odd years old! So where's the harm in smoking?" True, but what the story leaves off is the fact that Churchill spent the last 15 or so years of his life in atrocious health; pain, shortness of breath, decreased mobility, shitty quality of life, the works.

Bad argument in support of a bad argument.

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Response to trumad (Original post)

Sun Dec 16, 2012, 09:58 AM

12. Ever own a microwave?

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Response to Tutonic (Reply #12)

Sun Dec 16, 2012, 10:04 AM

18. I do...

...and it never killed anyone.

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Response to Tutonic (Reply #12)

Sun Dec 16, 2012, 12:59 PM

75. Whaaaaaaaat? n/t

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Response to JimDandy (Reply #75)

Tue Dec 18, 2012, 12:39 PM

127. Obviously you have overlooked the stories

about crazed killers using microwave ovens to rub out dozens in seconds!


But every time a citizen carrying a concealed microwave is present, the killer is stopped! You can look it up!1!!1

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Response to klook (Reply #127)

Tue Dec 18, 2012, 04:26 PM

130. LOL n/t

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Response to trumad (Original post)

Sun Dec 16, 2012, 09:59 AM

13. I'm your age, same here

Husband and FIL used to hunt pheasants years ago, gun was hidden way back in a closet and I forgot we had it (kids never knew we had it). He recently sold it to a co-worker who was afraid that "Obama's gonna take away our guns!" and he got a lot more $$ for it than he thought. Now we have no gun and no intention of ever getting one.

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Response to trumad (Original post)

Sun Dec 16, 2012, 10:00 AM

14. I say if you have a gun because you like target practice...

take up basketball. B-ball takes more skill and is a pretty good workout.

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Response to trumad (Original post)

Sun Dec 16, 2012, 10:01 AM

15. Completely agree

The irony is that the small inkling I have to ever think about having one is simply because of all the gun violence.

It is a self perpetuating fear that feeds itself and simply makes matters worse.

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Response to trumad (Original post)

Sun Dec 16, 2012, 10:02 AM

16. re:I'm 55 years old and have never owned a gun in my life.

same here . raises hand . i fired an m1 carbine at a millitary school when i was a kid. could care less about guns. id shoot myself in the foot. seriously. and i dont like the things

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Response to trumad (Original post)

Sun Dec 16, 2012, 10:03 AM

17. One of my FB friends is a "2nd amendment rights" enthusiast

She posts that stuff pretty often (not in the past 2 days though). About 5 years ago her young-adult son committed suicide--shot himself. I truly don't get this.

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Response to trumad (Original post)

Sun Dec 16, 2012, 10:08 AM

19. Statistics

The gun idiots have a storage vault of statistics that will prove having that weapon near at hand has saved lives. They are totally skewed statistics that don't relate to reality.
You can't prove how the presence of a gun stopped a crime that never happened.

We don't need statistics. We need common sense.

Great post

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Response to mainstreetonce (Reply #19)

Sun Dec 16, 2012, 11:06 AM

38. What about people you know?

I've known two people who accidentally shot themselves with guns - neither died from the experience but one lost some use of his left hand. I also have a friend who tried to kill himself with a knife several years ago; if he had had a gun he would probably have succeeded. I know two other people who accidentally shot other people - severely disrupting their own lives as well as their victims.

I know only one person who claims to have defended herself using a gun - and I have my doubts about the story. Apparently she heard some noise in the woods around her rural home and, after shooting a gun into the air as a warning a car drove off. I've sometimes wondered whether it was just someone re-leaving themselves in the bushes. I've also wondered where that stray bullet, shot into the air, might have come down.

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Response to PrMaine (Reply #38)

Sun Dec 16, 2012, 01:38 PM

79. Welcome to DU!

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Response to trumad (Original post)

Sun Dec 16, 2012, 10:09 AM

20. Know what I can't figure out?

How a person finds the gun fast enough in a home invasion.

I'd be scratching my head... "Now where'd I put that firearm?"



Cher



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Response to trumad (Original post)

Sun Dec 16, 2012, 10:11 AM

21. I will be 65 years old this coming July.

I also have NEVER owned a gun in my life. I do not allow them in my house. I don't go to shooting ranges. GUNS ARE IMPLEMENTS OF VIOLENCE. PERIOD. They have NO other function. My best protection at home? An alarm system, shrubbery cleared from the window and door areas, and a yappy dog. Scotties are yappy!

FUCK the NRA!!!!!!!

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Response to trumad (Original post)

Sun Dec 16, 2012, 10:12 AM

23. That metric is not available

Defense Gun Use is a major point of contention. It cannot be measured. It is not even reported or tracked well when the police know about it.

Some claim it rarely happens, some claim is happens daily and often. Neither side has supportable numbers to back up their claims. Without it, they both make claims based on their agenda.

Several have sited number about how much more often people with guns get shot than those who do not have them. That "study" minimizes DGUs to make its number more salacious. Then again, the pro side does about the same.

If you want an example there was a somewhat ironic story recently about a home invasion robber calling the cops because the residents had him at gun point. That seems to me to be a DGU, but there will be nothing in the DOJ stats to say it happen.

Without metrics, the valid question you ask is indeterminate


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Response to ProgressiveProfessor (Reply #23)

Sun Dec 16, 2012, 11:01 AM

35. Why would intrusion into a home not be tracked?

Wouldn't people after an intrusion call the police? Whether there was a gun involved or not?

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Response to AllyCat (Reply #35)

Sun Dec 16, 2012, 11:18 AM

43. Not everything is a home invasion

- Events happen outside the home
- Some people don't call the police since they do not trust them (funny how that works)
- That a civilian weapon as used but not fired has not historically been tracked.

It really is a critical metric but there is no way to track it.

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Response to ProgressiveProfessor (Reply #43)

Sun Dec 16, 2012, 11:42 AM

53. Yeah? I've never had a thing happen to me, and I'm a woman, and I carry no gun. Further...

I don't know anyone, male or female, that has had something happen to them outside the home.

I have heard of drive-by shootings in bad neighborhoods, and how are you going to defend yourself when a car drives by and shoots you? How fast can you pull out your gun and defend yourself when you're already on the ground, bleeding to death?

What's more, drive-by shootings and other such things we have courtesy of people who have a gun fetish, and insist that guns of all kinds should be freely sold. This country has more guns than people. Ridiculous. Absurd. DANGEROUS!

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Response to Sarah Ibarruri (Reply #53)

Sun Dec 16, 2012, 02:10 PM

83. Then you must not have any GLBT friends who have been bashed, harassed, or threatened

which means you may not have any GLBT friends

Gun culture idiots don't do drivebys, that is the thug culture idiots. They are markedly different.

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Response to ProgressiveProfessor (Reply #83)

Sun Dec 16, 2012, 07:28 PM

92. Oh, no doubt about gun nuts shooting GLBT folks, just as they shoot kids

I agree with you. GLBT folks run the same risk of getting shot by gun nuts as anyone else in this country. What's your issue?

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Response to Sarah Ibarruri (Reply #92)

Sun Dec 16, 2012, 08:21 PM

93. GLBTs are at the same risk for being assaulted as the rest of us?

In what fantasy land do you live in? Certainly not the USA

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Response to ProgressiveProfessor (Reply #93)

Sun Dec 16, 2012, 08:24 PM

94. So they get shot more? And you're in favor of guns????? You're nuts nt

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Response to Sarah Ibarruri (Reply #94)

Sun Dec 16, 2012, 08:36 PM

95. I am in favor of effective self defense for those who need it

And far and way the most effective self defense weapon is a handgun.

I teach firearms mostly to GLBTs and women for that reason. They are often reluctant gun owners but have come to the realization that until things change, they have little choice. The police cannot be there in real time, and are sometimes part of the problem. These are not people in bad neighborhoods participating in questionable activities. Sometimes it follows them home. T*s are being slaughtered in some cities and NOTHING IS BEING DONE. These are not gun nuts. They will probably never by any kind of long gun, AR, AK, or otherwise. They will disarm when the threat passes.

Maybe you can be the one standing over them telling them that it was better they get their brains bashed in or got tortured and shot rather that own an evil pistol. I however, will continue to help them until the threat passes. It seems the progressive thing to do.

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Response to ProgressiveProfessor (Reply #95)

Sun Dec 16, 2012, 09:04 PM

96. Oh I see. So you're in favor of those shooting gays being able to keep their guns? Demented. nt

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Response to Sarah Ibarruri (Reply #96)

Sun Dec 16, 2012, 09:28 PM

98. No, I am in favor of people having the tools to defend themselves against predators

My focus is on GLBTs being able to resist effectively since the cops are not going to be able to do a thing except write reports, assuming they care to show up.

Your constructive obtuseness is an obvious fail...

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Response to ProgressiveProfessor (Reply #98)

Mon Dec 17, 2012, 10:30 AM

113. To defend themselves from the guns you are arguing to keep out there and available, right? nt

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Response to Sarah Ibarruri (Reply #113)

Mon Dec 17, 2012, 12:27 PM

114. No, against any and all threats to themselves and loved one

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Response to ProgressiveProfessor (Reply #114)

Mon Dec 17, 2012, 12:46 PM

115. What kind of threat do you feel someone deserves to be shot for? Someone coming at you with a GUN?

We're back to square one. You're wanting a gun to defend yourself against GUNS.

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Response to Sarah Ibarruri (Reply #115)

Mon Dec 17, 2012, 07:51 PM

116. Anything qualifying as the an appropriate use of deadly force under law

Most GLBTs are not bashed at gun point, neither do most rapes either.

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Response to ProgressiveProfessor (Reply #116)

Mon Dec 17, 2012, 09:23 PM

117. There are gays in Europe, and I never knew one packing heat

In fact, I have never met a gay person that was packing heat.

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Response to Sarah Ibarruri (Reply #117)

Mon Dec 17, 2012, 10:42 PM

118. This is the US, not Europe. Bashing and intimidation is more common for gays here.

The level of violence of all kinds is also lower than in the US. Its also hard to get a handgun in most parts of Europe.

Most people who carry don't tell anybody, regardless of their sexual orientation. Its a need to know kind of thing. If you are experienced, sometimes you can spot it. There is also more social stigma in the GLBT community about guns that there is in the rest of society. Its something we discuss in my classes. As one student said, "If you are going to pack heat, you will get some heat", and that is a good summary, just ask the Pink Pistols. At the end of the weekend, not everyone goes out and buys a gun either. If someone is not willing to take on the responsibility, then they should not have it.

To the best of my knowledge, none of my students have become gun nuts. The vast majority own one gun each and keep it safe when its not being carried. Some have been so outrageous to get a .22LR pistol but that is about it. Few that I recall ever got a long gun of any kind. The exception is a couple who have become serious skeet shooters. They are both better at it than I ever was

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Response to ProgressiveProfessor (Reply #118)

Tue Dec 18, 2012, 12:12 PM

119. And knowing that, that in the U.S. gays are intimidated, you STILL want rampant ownership of guns?

You make no sense.

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Response to Sarah Ibarruri (Reply #119)

Tue Dec 18, 2012, 12:21 PM

122. You do realize

 

he is saying gays get attacked by more than guns? Like Fists, feet, bats, etc?

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Response to WinniSkipper (Reply #122)

Wed Dec 19, 2012, 11:26 AM

133. Of course I am. He's sidetracking the discussion of guns, which is a debate that

was re-ignited when 20 kids and 6 adults were shot at Sandy Hook.

All kinds of subjects have been brought up in order to sidetrack the gun issue, from gays, to video games, to mental health. You name it. Anything to sidetrack the issue of the much-needed gun regulations.

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Response to Sarah Ibarruri (Reply #133)

Wed Dec 19, 2012, 12:11 PM

137. That you cannot address these subjects says much about your arguments

There have been others point out why they own and sometimes carry. You offer nothing to address their needs.

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Response to ProgressiveProfessor (Reply #137)

Wed Dec 19, 2012, 12:53 PM

144. Why are we even discussing anything? Your point and desire is to keep guns freely sold as they are

Mine is to ban guns.

You're an avid gun owner and belong to the gun group here on DU.

I'm against guns.

You think more guns is the answer to the gun problem.

I think you know better but you will do anything to keep guns sold freely.



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Response to Sarah Ibarruri (Reply #144)

Wed Dec 19, 2012, 01:10 PM

145. Why do you keep posting the same thing?

I belong to 15 groups on DU.

I think personal sidearms are the best way for individuals to resist those who would do them harm. I train members of a targeted minority to defend themselves. A group that would mostly disarm in a heartbeat if the threat against them went away. The anti gay violence is so much more than just guns, but you discount it totally.

I have posted additional gun regulations I would support. It might surprise you.
http://www.democraticunderground.com/10022008389

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Response to ProgressiveProfessor (Reply #145)

Wed Dec 19, 2012, 02:00 PM

147. You might belong to 15, however....

This is what your profile says:

Favorite group: Gun Control & RKBA, 264 posts in the last 90 days (16% of total posts)

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Response to Sarah Ibarruri (Reply #147)

Wed Dec 19, 2012, 02:18 PM

148. Meaning that 84% of my posts are elsewhere

The Gungeon has been pretty active recently if you have not noticed.

Do you live in the US and know a substantive number of GLBTs?
Do you have any clue about the threat they live under?
If so, what is your answer to protect them?

If all you can think about is my posting history, then you are not willing to deal with the realities of the situation.

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Response to Sarah Ibarruri (Reply #119)

Tue Dec 18, 2012, 12:24 PM

124. What would you have them do, just accept being attacked, terrorized, beaten, and killed?

Handguns are the most effective means of self defense and self defense is a legitimate reason to use deadly force.

I teach firearms mostly to GLBTs and women for that reason. They are often reluctant gun owners but have come to the realization that until things change in the US, they have little choice. The police cannot be there in real time, and are sometimes part of the problem. These are not people in bad neighborhoods participating in questionable activities. Sometimes it follows them home. T*s are being slaughtered in some cities and NOTHING IS BEING DONE. These are not gun nuts. They will probably never by any kind of long gun, AR, AK, or otherwise. They will disarm when the threat passes.

Maybe you can be the one standing over them telling them that it was better they get their brains bashed in or got tortured and shot rather that own an evil pistol. I however, will continue to help them until the threat passes. It seems the progressive thing to do.

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Response to ProgressiveProfessor (Reply #124)

Tue Dec 18, 2012, 12:38 PM

126. Such Fun, Sir, Watching 'Team NRA' Wriggle About To Try And Find A 'Left' Reason For Their Nonesense

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Response to ProgressiveProfessor (Reply #124)

Wed Dec 19, 2012, 11:20 AM

131. Handguns are effective defense when someone has shot you?

The most effective way to stop the gun shootings is to begin the process of strongly regulating guns, to cease this from continuing to be a sort of war zone.

There's a toon someone posted yesterday which basically said the battlecry of gun lovers: guns are the solution to guns. That's what you're advocating. Kinda like saying a person with cancer needs to develop even more cancer in order to feel better.

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Response to Sarah Ibarruri (Reply #131)

Wed Dec 19, 2012, 12:07 PM

135. Actually they are very effective in not getting shot or bashed.

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Response to ProgressiveProfessor (Reply #135)

Wed Dec 19, 2012, 12:13 PM

139. Oh yes, let's add more guns to the already-existing gun problem. Do you even read what you're

writing? I often feel you're off in some gun la-la land, and don't even understand your demented, irrational thinking.

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Response to Sarah Ibarruri (Reply #139)

Wed Dec 19, 2012, 12:31 PM

141. Do you ever consider that Defensive Gun Use is legitimate

and that there are people living under serious threat the police cannot help in real time if they even choose to?

Would you rather have them be bashed and attacked? Would you be the one to stand over them while they are bleeding and thank them for not adding to the existing problems?



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Response to Sarah Ibarruri (Reply #117)

Tue Dec 18, 2012, 12:20 PM

121. Do you think

 

GLBTs should not have this option to defend themselves from gay bashing? Just because you haven't met someone who carries does not mean they do not exist.



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Response to WinniSkipper (Reply #121)

Wed Dec 19, 2012, 11:27 AM

134. I think gays is not a discussion of gun regulation, and neither are violent video games, nor mental

health, nor anything else being used to sidetrack the gun shootings discussion.

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Response to Sarah Ibarruri (Reply #134)

Wed Dec 19, 2012, 12:10 PM

136. Its an example that many can relate to of why some people buy and sometimes carry sidearms.

When some rail that no one needs a gun, its an example of where one is needed. That you cannot relate or refute is fine, but as I said earlier your experience seems somewhat limited

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Response to ProgressiveProfessor (Reply #136)

Wed Dec 19, 2012, 12:12 PM

138. But your solution to pervasive guns in the U.S. leading to pervasive gun deaths is more guns.

If you don't understand what I'm saying, go look at the political cartoons posted on here. There are hundreds, all explaining why your rationale is warped.

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Response to Sarah Ibarruri (Reply #138)

Wed Dec 19, 2012, 12:34 PM

142. You ignore the individual...

Most of the GLBTs I know and those I have trained are not gun nuts. One pistol per adult, locked safely. Regular practice and used only in extremis.

Your sound bit approach leaves many open to harm.

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Response to ProgressiveProfessor (Reply #136)

Wed Dec 19, 2012, 10:13 PM

151. No, actually. It's an example that you're in a gun group

defending guns and trying to pick excuses for keeping the U.S. overrun with guns.

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Response to Sarah Ibarruri (Reply #151)

Thu Dec 20, 2012, 12:51 AM

153. Your utter failure to provide a solution of any kind, even acknowledge issues show your

total lack of understanding of the problem.

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Response to ProgressiveProfessor (Reply #153)

Thu Dec 20, 2012, 12:14 PM

158. I've mentioned the solution constantly, stricter gun control and stricter regulations. nt

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Response to Sarah Ibarruri (Reply #158)

Thu Dec 20, 2012, 07:55 PM

163. Which in know way address the concerns I brought up

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Response to ProgressiveProfessor (Reply #136)

Thu Dec 20, 2012, 03:36 PM

162. I think of the situation

where a gay or lesbian person of a smaller size must defend again an attacker or attackers of much greater size, during a bashing incident where the attackers merely use their larger size/strength or numbers to accomplish the act.

The smaller person is going to die in that case, if that is what the bashers intend to accomplish.

Same is true for any woman who has an ex husband who cares not about a stupid piece of paper called a restraining order, and where the ex is bashing down the door, the cops are busy elsewhere, and are unable to get there. And the husband isn't even armed, merely has the advantage of size and strength. And he beats her to death. Domestic violence is not an uncommon thing.

Those women often die by nothing more than the hands of the attacker who has an advantage of size/strength.

The above situations are quite common; maybe reading about them so much means that familiarity has bred contempt. I don't know why someone thinks it is okay to let this happen in a situation where there is no way for the victim to have the physical strength to fend off such a thing. I can completely understand why someone in any of these situations would choose to equalize their ability to defend themselves from an attack.

And if someone has never walked a mile in their shoes, or has been fortunate enough to not have this occur in their circle of family and friends, they should indeed be grateful for the gift of a charmed life, instead of dispensing with the need for empathy for others who haven't had such a soft path in their lives or who must do more to increase their odds of surviving such crap storms.



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Response to Sarah Ibarruri (Reply #134)

Wed Dec 19, 2012, 07:23 PM

149. How about his then?

 

How about those that are targeted for violence? Like, say, GLBT?

It's a little hard to follow what you are saying.

If you are saying - and it sounds like you are - that you want to ban all guns. Which makes discussion sort of pointless since that is not going to happen

If you want to talk about magazine size, no private sales w/o NCIS checks, etc - I don't think you will get too much argument

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Response to WinniSkipper (Reply #149)

Wed Dec 19, 2012, 10:12 PM

150. Are you interested in discussing gun regulation and gun deaths?

Or are you interested in discussing GLBT issues?

Pick one. They're not the same topic.

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Response to Sarah Ibarruri (Reply #150)

Thu Dec 20, 2012, 12:52 AM

154. The issues are interwoven. Address them together if you can

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Response to ProgressiveProfessor (Reply #154)

Thu Dec 20, 2012, 12:13 PM

157. BS. In your mind, anything that will distract the conversation from guns from being controlled

is pertinent. If a discussion on hot chocolate would do the trick, you'd be discussing hot chocolate constantly.

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Response to Sarah Ibarruri (Reply #157)

Thu Dec 20, 2012, 07:56 PM

164. Its a clear case your so called solution does not address

That is not a distraction, that is sinking your argument.

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Response to ProgressiveProfessor (Reply #154)

Fri Dec 21, 2012, 02:55 PM

170. I want to know why the NRA won't allow guns in their press conference...

but wants people to be able to carry concealed weapons, and teachers to be packing heat in schools.

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Response to Sarah Ibarruri (Reply #170)

Fri Dec 21, 2012, 05:13 PM

171. Don't know what their reasoning was

And I don't want teachers actively carrying on campus

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Response to ProgressiveProfessor (Reply #171)

Fri Dec 21, 2012, 05:42 PM

174. Oh of course not. You're a babe in diapers and don't know a thing. Innocence from a gun fetishist

LOL! I don't know if I should laugh or just consider you a f psycho.

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Response to Sarah Ibarruri (Reply #174)

Fri Dec 21, 2012, 06:00 PM

176. The environment is not conductive to safe carrying

Mind the personal attacks, though these are so juvenile as to not be alert worth.

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Response to ProgressiveProfessor (Reply #176)

Sat Dec 22, 2012, 09:47 PM

177. Please cease responding to me. You're a gun nut and that's

all you're about.

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Response to Sarah Ibarruri (Reply #177)

Sat Dec 22, 2012, 10:40 PM

179. I am moderate...who thinks substantive changes are needed

I am only responding to your posts...ignore is your friend

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Response to Sarah Ibarruri (Reply #150)

Fri Dec 21, 2012, 02:48 PM

168. As the other poster has shown you

 

In this discussion they are connected - you just refuse to see it

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Response to WinniSkipper (Reply #168)

Fri Dec 21, 2012, 02:54 PM

169. Interesting that the NRA wants teachers packing heat in schools but not at the NRA press conference

What about the right to be armed they are twisting themselves into a pretzel to defend??? Hmmm?

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Response to Sarah Ibarruri (Reply #169)

Fri Dec 21, 2012, 05:17 PM

172. I don't support arming teaches in the classroom or during press conferences

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Response to ProgressiveProfessor (Reply #172)

Fri Dec 21, 2012, 05:40 PM

173. Ah, but you support the owning and carrying of weapons among people? Such bs. Stop sending me

messages.

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Response to Sarah Ibarruri (Reply #173)

Fri Dec 21, 2012, 05:58 PM

175. At times, some places, and with proper training I am good with it

Last edited Fri Dec 21, 2012, 07:08 PM - Edit history (1)

I am only replying to your posts...I am not sending you messages. If that offends you, quit posting responses or use the ignore features.

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Response to ProgressiveProfessor (Reply #175)

Sat Dec 22, 2012, 09:49 PM

178. You're in luck, I've decided to not respond further to your

gun-loving comments. Bye.

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Response to Sarah Ibarruri (Reply #178)

Sat Dec 22, 2012, 10:41 PM

180. As you like it

We shall see

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Response to Sarah Ibarruri (Reply #53)

Tue Dec 18, 2012, 12:16 PM

120. Do you think nobody, male or female.

 

gets attacked outside the home?

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Response to ProgressiveProfessor (Reply #43)

Sun Dec 16, 2012, 10:53 PM

99. Okay, that makes some sense.

Guess there are many who don't trust them. A notable example that should have occurred to me is women being abused and not reporting it.

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Response to AllyCat (Reply #99)

Sun Dec 16, 2012, 11:01 PM

100. The reporting system doesn't track it either, even if it gets reported

If a weapon is discharged, there is a much higher likelihood that the police will be called, but even then that is not a guarantee out in the country.

Lots of people don't trust the cops and if its handled, leave it there.

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Response to ProgressiveProfessor (Reply #23)

Mon Dec 17, 2012, 02:55 AM

102. Actually, it was available.

The CDC funded a lot of studies to try an answer that question. They got results that was not favorable to gun ownership.

So the NRA tried to destroy the CDC, but only succeed in Congress making it illegal to use federal funds to study the effects of gun ownership on crime. (Some info here and here and here)

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Response to ProgressiveProfessor (Reply #23)

Mon Dec 17, 2012, 05:54 AM

108. I don't think it's measurable even in theory

Because there is no way to accurately define what counts as successful self-defense. I'm sure there are videos documenting actual attacks, but these are rare. More likely is a scenario encountered by a friend of mine.

She was in her 60s, and liked to hike alone. She carried a handgun for possible self-defense, though I'm not sure whether it would have stopped a bear. One morning she was cooking breakfast and noticed tow men approaching her tent from a nearby trail. She drew her gun and assumed the stance, and the men went back the way they came. There are people who would include this in successful self-defense statistics, but this is bullshit.

Even though I probably would have done the same in her situation, the fact is that the intentions of the men were unknown. They may have just wanted directions. Or not. There is just no way of telling for sure.

A sad thing--she committed suicide by gun. She had had a hellish time caring for her mother with Alzheimers, and thought she recognized signs in herself. There was no official diagnosis, but she chose not to take chances.

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Response to eridani (Reply #108)

Mon Dec 17, 2012, 06:13 AM

109. Its one of the many issues involved with gather such data, the other is agenda

A while back I got some insight on how motorcycles accidents with and without helmets were being reported. Total nonsense. DOT sets the reporting standards and the results were total crap. Despite knowing that I still ride ATGATT.

I have some recent and serious insight into what your friend went through and the path she chose.

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Response to trumad (Original post)

Sun Dec 16, 2012, 10:14 AM

24. Amen & Thank you.

n/t

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Response to trumad (Original post)

Sun Dec 16, 2012, 10:17 AM

25. If someone breaks into my house

 

I'd either run out the back, or, hide, or, assist them in taking what they want. I don't want to murder anyone, even a thief.

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Response to salinen (Reply #25)

Sun Dec 16, 2012, 10:53 AM

33. "I don't want to murder anyone, even a thief."

That's beautiful right there.

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Response to trumad (Original post)

Sun Dec 16, 2012, 10:17 AM

26. Sometimes you have to put the lives of others before what you like to do

 

Decent human beings will lay down their guns after this.

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Response to trumad (Original post)

Sun Dec 16, 2012, 10:18 AM

27. K&R

 

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Response to trumad (Original post)

Sun Dec 16, 2012, 10:27 AM

28. I'm 42 and I've owned guns all my life.

 

My father taught me how to shoot when I was about 7-8 years old. He gave me my first rifle, a Ruger 10/22, for Christmas when I was 10.

I own firearms specifically for self-defense. In fact the first firearm I ever bought for myself was a Ruger P90 .45 pistol for self-defense. I have never had a reason to use it. Once someone came into the back yard of our home and tried to hot-wire my brand-new garden tractor, but no one was home that we know of to stop them. I've never been a victim of violent crime.

I still believe in keeping firearms for self-defense, even though my odds of needing them are low, for two reasons: 1) It's cheap and easy to be prepared. 2) It doesn't cause any problems for most people like myself to own firearms.

I have hunted over the years. I have eaten meat my entire life so I owe my existence to "killing animals". I can tell you from personal experience that killing an animal in a forest is many, many times more humane than having them herded into a slaughterhouse in an 18-wheeler and crammed down the chutes to execution, with the smell and sound of death all around them.

I collect firearms. Some of the firearms in my collection have been in my family since 1904. I own standard, utilitarian arms, and I own fine works of art, and I own sophisticated target-shooting guns.

I shoot competitively about once a month. I have never gone to a competition and not placed at least first, second, or third place.

I just can't imagine having a loaded gun on my night stand because of the small chance of an intrusion by a bad guy.

I agree with this. I used to keep my gun in my night stand, but as soon as I had children, I bought a safe.

I believe everyone who owns guns should keep them in a safe.

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Response to Atypical Liberal (Reply #28)

Sun Dec 16, 2012, 12:13 PM

60. Almost all gun owners are educated, reasonable, normal, until something makes them rage

 

then they reach for that handy piece. The odds are against you with all those guns around, good luck dude.

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Response to Atypical Liberal (Reply #28)

Sun Dec 16, 2012, 01:50 PM

80. I own two guns

One is a .22 revolver I use for target shooting. I don't keep ammo around the house, I buy it when I'm going to the range. I take it out two or three times a year and plink at targets at my local range. And a couple other times in between to clean it. Other than that it is disassembled and locked in a carrying case.

The other is an antique saddle rifle we inherited from my wife's grandparents - I don't even know where to get ammo for it. But I still keep it locked and secure.

I don't keep it because I feel afraid, or because I'm worried about self-defense. I fully recognize the potential that both of them carry to take a life - it is something I take very seriously. If we had children, I'd probably have them in a safe, as it is, I have the one dissasembled in a locked case and the other has a trigger lock on it. Keys to both are on my keyring.

I don't belong to the NRA - I hate their propaganda and think they do more damage than good - I see them in the same light as I see fundamentalist evangelical Christians - they are perverting my beliefs into something reprehensible.

I believe the "well regulated" part of the second amendment needs to be looked at - and more regulations put in place, but I admit that I don't know what the regulations would change.

I don't like being called a gun nut, or told that I'm compensating for my manhood or other such nonsense. These attitudes have soured me on a lot of arguments for gun control. I'd like to be able to have a conversation that doesn't devolve into name-calling - that's the only way we can solve the problem.

I'm saddened at the carnage wrought at every one of these mass shootings, but I don't feel partially responsible for the tragedy as a gun owner.

I do however, feel partially responsible as a member of a society that has ignored these people, or helped break these people, to the point that they feel that the only solution is to do something horrific.

And that is what we need to change - our interactions with those around us - respect, empathy, care and compassion.

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Response to trumad (Original post)

Sun Dec 16, 2012, 10:31 AM

29. Probabilities

I am hearing a lot about the low probability of children dying in a school shooting. Inspired by your post, what is the probability of someone breaking into my house while I am in it? Let's hear some talk about that? It happened to me once in 69 years. It was only an attempt, and the person did not get through the garden level window. It is very unlikely he had a gun. When surprised, he went up and over a 6-foot fence as if it weren't there and disappeared faster than the speed of light.

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Response to Maineman (Reply #29)

Sun Dec 16, 2012, 11:12 AM

41. What was the perspective burgler looking for?

Guns are not that cheap.

The loot that burglars are looking for are money, jewelry, guns or small electronics. In fact, guns are apt to be above jewelry in that list since so much jewelry has little value while guns are pretty easy to sell.

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Response to trumad (Original post)

Sun Dec 16, 2012, 10:45 AM

30. One of uncles liked to hunt pheasant in western Kansas.

He set his shotgun down beside a fence, and it went off under his armpit. He lived, but accidents should be another consideration. Guns are dangerous. Any fool should realize this, even Dick Cheney.

When I was a young man, my father-in-law brought a riffle to a family picnic (in safe area). I was taking aim at something, a tin can I suspect, when I heard him yell his younger son's name. His younger son was playing and about to run in front of my aim. I could have shot my kid brother-in-law. Accidents happen. With guns, the result can be disasterous.

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Response to trumad (Original post)

Sun Dec 16, 2012, 10:46 AM

31. me too

When I live in the city I visited a friend of a friend who had a collection of guns. I never desired to own one. He had a Biretta and let me hold it.
I have to say that a strange empowering feeling came over me when I held it. This was over 30 years ago and I can still remember the feeling. When my husband died I moved up north to a rural area where there is hunting moose, bear and deer. I thought to get a hunting rifle. First I had to take a certified hunting and firearms course taught by the OPP. It was a 2 all day course. There were 14 of 7 male and 7 female. I was the oldest and the recent newcomer from the city. I shocked my teachers by getting the highest marks. Before I was awarded my fire arms license the RCMP had to check me out very thoroughly.

I got it and still have no gun. I find I don't want one. My boyfriend has a few. They are locked up. He used to go hunting but has no desire to anymore. Oh the firearms license is for long guns. Assault guns are banned in Canada. And you have be investigate further to get a handgun and must have a good reason to have one.

I think Canada does this well. We don't have those big gun sale fairs like the USA.

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Response to trumad (Original post)

Sun Dec 16, 2012, 10:50 AM

32. I understand.

 

My known family history is a mixed bag in regard to gun ownership and their use. One of my Dad's uncles accidentally shot himself in the leg, but was so embarrassed or afraid to admit it to his father he let the wound fester until surgery was needed to remove the infected limb.

The grandfather was not averse to keeping a gun though. He apparently thought it was wise to have one ready for one of his sons-in-law who he suspected of purposely killing one of his daughters with a gun rather than "accidentally" doing so.

My Dad owned a shotgun for many years, but during my lifetime hasn't used it. During his military service he was required to carry a sidearm when he was delivering codes. He says, joking, "I don't even know whether the thing was loaded." Generally speaking, he doesn't care for 'em.

My brother owns two or three handguns. Well, I think he does. I haven't spoken to him for several months so I'm not sure. But that's another story. He occasionally went target shooting. He's not what I would call a gun nut.

I have owned a shotgun since I was 15. I went hunting a few times, but I didn't and still don't have the stomach for killing squirrels, birds, and rabbits. A few years ago I bought a small caliber revolver. It's kept unloaded in a locked case. The ammunition is in a separate location. I bought it in response to the kooks who seem intent on pushing their warped sense of proportion onto me and the country at large. I hope I never have to use it.

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Response to trumad (Original post)

Sun Dec 16, 2012, 10:58 AM

34. I love the argument that we should ban cars because cars kill more people.

First, I'm engaged in operating a car in a typical day more than I'm ever engaged in operating a firearm, therefore, my chances of being killed in an car are greater.

Second, the purpose of operating a car is not to kill something. The purpose of operating a firearm is.

And there's the other argument that we should ban knives because they kill people, too. My chances of escaping from a stabber are greater than escaping from someone coming after me with a gun.

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Response to bulloney (Reply #34)

Sun Dec 16, 2012, 11:39 AM

52. And knives have many uses

Whereas guns have only one use.

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Response to trumad (Original post)

Sun Dec 16, 2012, 11:03 AM

36. A big, fat K&R

eom

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Response to trumad (Original post)

Sun Dec 16, 2012, 11:06 AM

37. I've lived to be 62 and no guns for me. The thought of using one to hurt someone else? No. No. No.

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Response to trumad (Original post)

Sun Dec 16, 2012, 11:09 AM

39. I live in one of the cities with the worst crime records and I don't own a gun

I hear these people in the suburbs all fearing their lives thinking they need all these guns to protect themselves. I see these suburbanites and rural folks who think they aren't safe unless they carry a gun.

Well folks, Wilmington DE has one of the worst crime rates for a small size city and I STILL have no desire to own a gun. And after living here 10 years haven't had a need for one either. Mind you I live in a safer neighborhood but like all cities we're only about 5 blocks from where it starts going downhill.

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Response to LynneSin (Reply #39)

Tue Dec 18, 2012, 01:35 PM

128. I have to laugh at them ---

I live in San Francisco, in a working class neighborhood and across the street from a crack house. Seriously, a crack house that has been visited by the cops routinely for the past two years. On several occasions there were busts with dozens of SWAT members, all heavily armed and pointing their weapons at my neighbor. Another neighbor a few houses up the hill was the recipient of a full-fledged raid federal raid -- speed and weapons the ex-felon neighbor should not have had were found. The park a few blocks away used to be the place criminals would go to dump bodies, fire off weapons in the middle of the night, and use neighborhood pets as bait for dog fights. I've also once had my house broken into and, in fact, came face to face with the intruder. I've been caught driving in the middle of two gangs going at it, once on city streets and once on a freeway. I also was square in the middle of two Mission gangs flashing weapons while I was standing in front of a restaurant -- one guy flashing was literally right next to me.

Guess what? Despite all the very real "scary" stuff happening around me, I don't own a gun. I am not paranoid, I not not live in fear every day of my life, nor am I am convinced that the only solution to the world I live in is to arm myself to the teeth.

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Response to trumad (Original post)

Sun Dec 16, 2012, 11:10 AM

40. A gun freak once asked me:

"What are you afraid of?"

Of course, the answer is simple: If I were afraid, I would have many weapons and carry one with me at all times. Because I am not afraid, I don't carry.

And you, trumad? What are you afraid of?

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Response to Buzz Clik (Reply #40)

Sun Dec 16, 2012, 11:58 AM

57. My wife...

When I come home to late after a night out with friends.

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Response to trumad (Original post)

Sun Dec 16, 2012, 11:14 AM

42. 64 and owned a 22 automatic rifle for abut 2 weeks once

A few pellet rifles and pistols I used to target practice with, don't any more, but other than that no guns for me

The 22 I bought in the early 70s and kept it for at most 2 weeks because it just didn't seem right to me to own a gun after where I'd been. Life is too short to take it for granted no matter who or what it is or what the circumstances are.

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Response to trumad (Original post)

Sun Dec 16, 2012, 11:19 AM

44. In this insane world...

thank you for posting some sanity...

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Response to trumad (Original post)

Sun Dec 16, 2012, 11:26 AM

46. I guess that explains why you got kicked out of the "little boys club"! K&R

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Response to trumad (Original post)

Sun Dec 16, 2012, 11:33 AM

47. Totally agree....

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Response to trumad (Original post)

Sun Dec 16, 2012, 11:36 AM

48. Thats your experience

 

Mileage may vary -- there are plenty of people who might need a firearm. But American freedom isn't about what you need according another person's experience.

And thank you for your service, BTW. Seriously, thank you.

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Response to trumad (Original post)

Sun Dec 16, 2012, 11:37 AM

50. My Mom and brothers gave me a 22 rifle when I was 13 years old for Christmas.

I took it to my Aunts house for show and tell on Xmas day with the cousins.

I left it there. I told my cousin he could have it.

Never wanted a damned gun.

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Response to trumad (Original post)

Sun Dec 16, 2012, 11:39 AM

51. Never owned one in my life either

Only shot one once when a friend of a friend took us to a shooting range. It was a light shotgun type of thing. The handgun - I was afraid to even pull the trigger.

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Response to trumad (Original post)

Sun Dec 16, 2012, 11:45 AM

54. Guns are for death and destruction. No thanks. I think it's way

past time to have a national discussion about what the phrase "a well-regulated militia"means and how it applies today. Somehow I don't think the framers intended that citizens should be given free access to automatic weapons to mow down schoolchildren. But that's what it's come to.

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Response to trumad (Original post)

Sun Dec 16, 2012, 11:50 AM

55. I'm 64 years old, and used to own guns....

The ex wife and her family packed them off along with some tools, during a divorce. They later claimed they never saw any guns, and I must be lying. I finally gave up the fight, after deciding I didn't want them anyway. I am now gun free, and have no plans to purchase any more.

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Response to trumad (Original post)

Sun Dec 16, 2012, 11:54 AM

56. Any thoughts of gun ownership were banished in the late 60s

when I knew a junkie named Fred. Fred was a typical end stage, hard core heroin addict, a feature of the neighborhood. Most of the burglaries were being done by Fred, but he was a gent who'd leave passports and important stuff taped to the mirror so folks would know where it was after he tossed their places. I think he was afraid of me because my apartment was the only one in my building that hadn't been hit, not that I had anything much to steal. It was a little embarrassing.

Anyway, when I'd go over to Fred's place, his girlfriend being one of my nearest and dearest in Boston, I'd stand at the wall and reach around to knock on the door in case Fred was having one of his paranoid days The front door was graced with more than one bullet hole from those.

Fred got all his guns from the same place: he stole them when he ripped off responsible and legal gun owners. He had a lot of guns and none of them had been bought, even on the street.

Fred taught me that the problem started with me, that the best way to keep guns off the street was to refuse to have any laying around for bad guys to steal. He taught me a whole lot of other stuff, good for a green as grass suburban cracker from the south gone to the big city. He died from an OD a couple of years after I first knew him and believe it or not, the world is a poorer place without him.

Fred is the reason I never owned a gun even back in the good old days when I could mostly see. Oh, and that knowing Fred made me a lot less afraid of living in the big, mean city alone. If I could survive him, I could survive anyone or anything.

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Response to Warpy (Reply #56)

Sun Dec 16, 2012, 12:26 PM

64. Thank you for sharing your story.

It is instructive in a number of ways.

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Response to iemitsu (Reply #64)

Sun Dec 16, 2012, 12:29 PM

66. Yeah, I'll bet!

I made friends with the Freds of the neighborhood in an attempt not to be their victim. It worked.

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Response to Warpy (Reply #66)

Sun Dec 16, 2012, 12:41 PM

69. Perhaps that was the initial reason for befriending Fred

but you were open to the friendship and you learned from the experience.
Plus you did not and do not condemn Fred for his human frailties but recognized and valued what Fred's perspective taught.

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Response to Warpy (Reply #56)

Sun Dec 16, 2012, 03:27 PM

85. Wow, you can weave an engrossing story!

If you're not a writer by profession, you should be.

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Response to trumad (Original post)

Sun Dec 16, 2012, 12:08 PM

59. K&R.

Very slightly younger than you, same attitude. And, I'm a woman. As a young woman, I lived alone. Never felt the need for a gun. Statistically, I'm safer without one.

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Response to trumad (Original post)

Sun Dec 16, 2012, 12:14 PM

61. 60 yr. old member of the same club

Self defense courses and good neighbors mean I don't need one. Never have. Never will.

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Response to trumad (Original post)

Sun Dec 16, 2012, 12:26 PM

63. I Could Have Written The OP

Never owned a gun and I never will.

My RW pro-gun friend asked me a month or so ago - What if someone broke into your home and shot you? I answered that I guess I simply would be a statistic. And then I told him that I would rather be shot than have gun in my home. He thought I was crazy.

I suppose it does sound crazy...but maybe some here would understand what I'm saying and why I would rather become a statistic than own a gun.

P

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Response to trumad (Original post)

Sun Dec 16, 2012, 12:27 PM

65. I'm almost 67 and live alone...

I've thought about buying a gun...even asked my friends with guns what to buy and where to go for training. But then I think of my five beautiful grandchildren and I can't imagine having a weapon in my house. So, no guns for me.

See, I know for an absolute certainty that none of my grandkids will be shot by a gun that I own if I don't own one.

If someone breaks into my house and kills me because I don't have a gun, it's a sacrifice I'm willing to make. I'd rather I get shot in my home than one of my grandkids. Yes, I'm smart enough to know to keep guns locked up, unloaded, yada yada yada...but what's the point of having a gun for protection if it's locked up and unloaded? No, no guns for me. I'll take my chances so my grandkids don't have to.

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Response to trumad (Original post)

Sun Dec 16, 2012, 12:37 PM

67. Female here, age 64.

I live alone these days.

Never had a gun, never will. The graphic posted above says it all.

The gun apologists keep on trying to make claims about how many home invaders have been stopped by a gun being pulled, and while I'm sure that has happened occasionally, it's nowhere near the number of "accidental" shootings. Not to mention the deliberate ones, killing a spouse, suicide.

In my relatively small city (Santa Fe, NM) they publish police blotter every day in the paper. It is astonishing to me how many times a car or a home is broken into and guns are stolen. So making all guns be registered and the owner responsible for them and what is done with them if stolen, is a very good idea.

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Response to trumad (Original post)

Sun Dec 16, 2012, 12:47 PM

72. Almost 51

Never have owned a gun ... never have had a gun in the house

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Response to trumad (Original post)

Sun Dec 16, 2012, 12:58 PM

74. I understand your feelings



I live in the woods, and there are coyotes, bobcat, bear and big cats. As long as I have horses, I will have a firearm available.

I am also a 100 pound, 5' tall woman and I presently live alone. I would never sleep at night if I didn't have that "equalizer," Having been assaulted more than a few times, I never want to go through that again. If I were to be assualted again I would probably kill myself - and not with a gun - I know every lethal poison in the woods.

Additionally, we did scare two big guys who were new neighbors ( and now friends ) who got really mad at me and tried to come on my property.

My son came up behind me and fired a warning shot into the air. He was taught never to fire unless he intended to kill, and that not every threat needs to be "eliminated", but he and I were not goingto stand there and let two guys come on my property and beat us up or worse.

They called the cops and the cops explained to them the ways of the mountain. and how you don't mess with ANYONE or go on their property threatening them because EVERYONE is packing heat up here in the woods. That confrontation could have been made worse, but that one gunshot made them go home when none of my commands to "Just get off my property and go home" convinced them.

As I told the cops, I will NOT end up surrounded in police tape on my own land.

The only other thing we've shot is a rabid possum.

Having said that, I wish I didn't have to have any guns, and I only have three, no assault rifles or semi-autos. If I lived in the city or suburbs, I'd invest in strong locks and such and probably only have the collectors' piece.

I am torn up about this issue. I believe in tight gun control, but I do not believe that we can eliminate all guns and I do feel that one time that the presence of a gun diffused the rage of those two men better than anything else.


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Response to Tsiyu (Reply #74)

Thu Dec 20, 2012, 02:03 AM

155. It is different for rural people

I don't have a gun, but I ended up having to pester my neighbor to come shoot the ewe whose intestines had been pulled out by dogs in a pack.... There are many animal situations where the vet says- sorry, nothing can be done- best to put them down, and I am suppose to shoot them. But I can't and so the poor neighbor has to come.

I keep saying that I need to get a gun....but so far I have not been able to do it.

I have purchased a high powered spot light- I use it as defense and it scares the coyotes at night. I have guardian dogs for the sheep now....I really do not want to get a gun.

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Response to Tumbulu (Reply #155)

Thu Dec 20, 2012, 10:05 PM

165. I completely understand not wanting one



To me, it's a necessary evil.

But I'm glad you have a neighbor nearby to help when an animal has to be put down. It sucks to have to shoot an animal, but it sucks worse to see them suffer in agony.

Lights are a good deterrent. Thursday night, I forgot to turn on the light that shines on the chicken pen and something got in the cage and killed a Rhodie. They couldn't pull the hen out, just left her, probably when they heard the neighbor fire up his chainsaw to cut firewood ( which he does at 1 in the morning lol - I'm used to it now and it does keep the critters away. )



You lost a lot of lambs this year, I remember.




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Response to Tsiyu (Reply #165)

Fri Dec 21, 2012, 12:20 AM

166. Yes and it still going on

But at a far lower rate since I got the Great Pyrenees from the rescue people. Tomorrow a trained younger one joins our efforts. I am excited and scared as it is a big deal to settle a new dog in. But it should be a big help. Wish us all luck!

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Response to Tumbulu (Reply #166)

Fri Dec 21, 2012, 02:07 AM

167. Wishing you all the best, of course, Tumbulu



Let's hope the new doggie works out very well.

Those Great Pyrenees are awesome dogs. Lot of folks around here have them for goats.

One old farmer ( now passed on ) told me he had one that would hog the baby goats - not even let the mamas near their own babies he was so protective. The farmer had to do "interventions" all during the birthing season so the babies could eat.

for a smooth transition for the new farm hand


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Response to trumad (Original post)

Sun Dec 16, 2012, 01:12 PM

76. Gee you're not such a...

after all!

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Response to trumad (Original post)

Sun Dec 16, 2012, 01:16 PM

77. I'm 73 and never owned and never will

I've never touched a gun and never will----I understand others want guns but for me it would change who I am!

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Response to trumad (Original post)

Sun Dec 16, 2012, 01:25 PM

78. I've not owned a gun either.

My brother accidentally shot himself in a hunting accident when I was 7. I haven't wanted anything to do with them since. I did have to do a bit of firearms training with a shotgun and some kind of big police pistol when I was a corrections officer (kind of silly since the prison didn't have an arsenal), but I have never felt the need for protection, even when out in the wilderness here. If I get eaten by a bear, it must be my time to go.

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Response to Blue_In_AK (Reply #78)

Sun Dec 16, 2012, 01:59 PM

82. Interestingly, a bear attack is the only threat that I've considered a gun for...

My wife and I camp a lot and recently there has been a rise in bear attacks. We talked about getting a shotgun just in case of a bear attack when we're out camping. Haven't yet, don't know if we will.

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Response to sweetloukillbot (Reply #82)

Sun Dec 16, 2012, 03:21 PM

84. That's the only reason we would consider one, too.

I've been camping and hiking around in Alaska since 1975 without a gun. We've seen tracks and scat and once came upon a moose or caribou kill (hard to tell which since it was pretty well chewed up) that made us scurry out of the area pretty quick, but so far we've been lucky. And careful.

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Response to sweetloukillbot (Reply #82)

Sun Dec 16, 2012, 06:51 PM

91. Want to add - I am a gun owner

I just don't feel the need to carry one or keep it within easy access, and I don't because I don't fear for my safety - either in public or at home.
When my wife was working late hours in a rougher part of town, I briefly considered getting her a small handgun for her purse, but ultimately decided to just get her a can of pepper spray.

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Response to Blue_In_AK (Reply #78)

Sun Dec 16, 2012, 03:43 PM

87. I have a similar story...

When I was 12 my dad bought me my first gun. It was a 20 gauge shotgun, single shot breakaway. When he took me out hunting he showed me how to open and load it. Problem was it had a defective firing pin, it stuck out just a bit too much. When I put the shell in and snapped the barrel closed, it went off. Shot my dad in the foot. Luckily it was bird shot.

After that I had no more desire to hunt or to own guns.

And I'm not for banning all guns, but the time has come for reasonable discussion on gun ownership. The founders made the Constitution adjustable for this very reason.

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Response to SomethingFishy (Reply #87)

Sun Dec 16, 2012, 03:58 PM

88. Your dad was lucky.

My brother had been squirrel hunting on my grandpa's farm (we ate squirrels and rabbits in those days), leaned the rifle against a fence as he was climbing over and it went off, shooting him in the head, killing him almost instantly. He was just 15. My dad never allowed guns in our house again, not even toy ones when my little brothers were kids.

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Response to Blue_In_AK (Reply #88)

Sun Dec 16, 2012, 04:07 PM

89. Man, sorry for your loss...

You're right we were lucky. And I have made sure I didn't need to be lucky again.

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Response to trumad (Original post)

Sun Dec 16, 2012, 01:58 PM

81. Off topic, but you sound like a wonderful father.

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Response to Exultant Democracy (Reply #81)

Sun Dec 16, 2012, 06:11 PM

90. I have my moments...

Hardest job I've ever had or ever will have.

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Response to trumad (Original post)

Sun Dec 16, 2012, 03:37 PM

86. Excellent points. I was just thinking about this:

"Have I shot one-- sure---I was in the Airborne Infantry. "

If you've ever been in the military, you've shot a gun, maybe even a machine gun.

I can't wrap my head around the need to have a handgun in the home premised on safety. As for automatic and semi-automatic weapons, it's incomprehensible that anyone would justify recreational ownership of these.

Maybe they should consider banning personal ownership of such weapons, but allow people a venue to go play with them.

Something has to be done.


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Response to trumad (Original post)

Sun Dec 16, 2012, 09:23 PM

97. I own an Air-Weight 38 Special - loaded with snake load


Use it when backpacking or deep-penetration day hikes. Mainly to make a big noise as most animals will run from a report (mainly for wild dog packs). Snake load so I have something that will sting but not enough to shoot off my foot.

If I run into anything that requires a base of fire, I am probably screwed anyway.

Number of years ago when I lived in Idaho all the locals were excited about some high powered handgun that could stop a Grizzly. Few years later read a story about a hunter who shot a grizzly with one of these guns, because the griz had the audacity to claim the hunters kill. Bullet bounced off the griz's skull, grizzly killed hunter, Wyoming Game and Fish then had to spend three days hunting down a injured rogue bear.



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Response to trumad (Original post)

Mon Dec 17, 2012, 12:50 AM

101. I'm 70 & I've never owned a gun either. I'm a single woman & at one time someone suggested that

I should have something in the bedroom to at least give me a chance in case of an intruder, so i decided to get a can of mace for the table beside my bed. One night I had a nightmare, grabbed that can of mace & sprayed it all over my bedroom. I have 4 cats & 2 dogs and we all had to sleep in the spare bedroom after I woke up & realized what I had done. Now I don't even have mace.

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Response to trumad (Original post)

Mon Dec 17, 2012, 05:19 AM

105. Same here - we hate guns

Decades ago I used to jog with a classmate until I realized he went nowhere without his weapon.

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Response to trumad (Original post)

Mon Dec 17, 2012, 05:40 AM

106. I've never owned a gun, either

But not everyone's life situation is like yours.

Me, I carry pepper spray everywhere I go. Being a disabled woman, I can't exactly run fast, and I sure as hell can't fight.

And yes, I've had to draw my weapon on more than one occasion, because my disabilities make me appear to be an easy target.

But I'm screwed if I ever encounter someone with a gun, because I don't have one.

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Response to trumad (Original post)

Mon Dec 17, 2012, 05:47 AM

107. Your CHOICE, but many of us who hunt and target shoot beg to disagree. More regulation, YES, but

you are entirely disregarding the nation's history on this issue. Responsible gun ownership, hunting, and target shooting is a HUGE part of our history and culture and it is NOT going away. Yes, we can ban assault weapons and do many other needed reforms, but banning all guns? NEVER gonna happen. Let's not have a civil war over this. Let's work together and find compromise around needed reforms.

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Response to RBInMaine (Reply #107)

Mon Dec 17, 2012, 07:01 AM

110. now where in my post did I say ban all guns.

Now put a paper bag over your mouth and breath. You've had a busy 24 hours.

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Response to trumad (Reply #110)

Wed Dec 19, 2012, 12:35 PM

143. Many here are...

Were it Meta, we could name them

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Response to trumad (Original post)

Mon Dec 17, 2012, 07:03 AM

111. Me too.

I'm 55 years old and have never owned a gun in my life. But I wasn't in the military and have never fired anything above BB & pellet guns.

Never felt the need to have a tool of instant death in my home.

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Response to trumad (Original post)

Mon Dec 17, 2012, 07:06 AM

112. Me neither and I'm 57.

I'm still here.

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Response to trumad (Original post)

Tue Dec 18, 2012, 12:24 PM

123. There are better ways to defend one's self.

Living in a peaceful world, for starters.

PS: Great post, trumad. I'm 55. NOAG. I learned to shoot in Jr-ROTC, where I learned gun safety.



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Response to trumad (Original post)

Wed Dec 19, 2012, 11:21 AM

132. I own a Mossberg, but it's never had a round through it.

I'll admit it: I'm afraid of it.

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Response to trumad (Original post)

Wed Dec 19, 2012, 01:27 PM

146. I'm almost 52, and can think of three guns I might someday own:

1. A grease gun. This is a low-possibility because I'm pretty much done with getting burnt, bashed, bruised, mashed, shred, scraped, shocked, and generally coated in oil, dirt, grease, and grit. Best to leave that to the professionals, with the equipment to match.

2. A cookie gun. This is a strong possibility. My mother had one, and it would be a fun addition to my kitchen tools

3. A high-capacity, long-reach water gun. Another strong possibility, once I know someone to willing to be drenched. Oh, and a mini-trebuchet for water balloons.


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Response to trumad (Original post)

Thu Dec 20, 2012, 02:31 AM

156. There is no reason for a civilian to own a firearm

OP you are a great example.

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Response to trumad (Original post)

Thu Dec 20, 2012, 01:13 PM

159. I own a handgun

that my Dad gave to me when I left for college many years ago ( my age is showing ) . At the time I was moving away from home to a big city and he gave it to me for protection.

It came in a box and it's been in that box unloaded for over twenty years. I don't even have bullets. It's hidden away and I sometimes forget that I even have it. I am sure the box has a fine layer of dust on it!

I've thought about it alot lately in light of this tragedy and I think I need to just go and turn it in, but I don't know where. Do i just go to the local police station?

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Response to trumad (Original post)

Thu Dec 20, 2012, 01:25 PM

160. Guns and Crime: Handgun Victimization, Firearm Self-Defense, and

This data is from a 1994 report

Guns and Crime: Handgun Victimization, Firearm Self-Defense, and
Firearm Theft

http://bjs.ojp.usdoj.gov/content/pub/ascii/hvfsdaft.txt

Average annual number of victimizations
in which victims used firearms to defend
themselves or their property
________________________________________
Attacked Threatened
Total offender offender
________________________________________
All crimes 82,500 30,600 51,900

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