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Sun Dec 16, 2012, 09:22 AM

 

(2008) UK Sees Sharp Rise In Fatal Knife Attacks; call for tighter regulation

An average of five people are knifed to death in England and Wales every week, as latest figures show that fatal stabbings are at a record level.

Police recorded 277 fatal knife attacks in 2007-08 - the highest since records began in 1977, according to statistics from all but one of 43 forces in England and Wales.

Last night, the Conservative Party, which obtained the figures, called for a new drive to curb knife crime, criticising the "short-term, ad hoc" operations of recent years. The Government will today propose tougher community sentences for knife-related offences. But the Tories insisted there should be an automatic presumption that anyone convicted of having a knife would go to jail...

The shadow Home Office minister, James Brokenshire, said: "Knife crime claims too many lives and ruins countless others, yet under Labour it has soared. The Government's only response is short term, ad-hoc police operations, the results of which they spin and manipulate anyway.

"Combating knife crime requires concerted action in the long and short term, not just spin. As well as deploying police on to the streets as the norm, we would introduce an automatic presumption of jail for knife possession - this may be harsh but it is absolutely necessary.

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2008/12/29/uk-sees-sharp-rise-in-fat_n_154011.html


and in response to the tiresome replies sure to follow:

1. i understand guns can kill more people more easily than knives.

2. i didn't post this to advocate against gun laws.


UK Knife laws:

Basic laws on knives

It is illegal to:

sell a knife of any kind (including cutlery and kitchen knives) to anyone under 18
carry a knife in public without good reason
carry, buy or sell any type of banned knife (the list of banned knives is below)
use any knife in a threatening way (even a legal knife, such as a Swiss Army knife)

Knives with folding blades, like Swiss Army knives, are not illegal as long as the blade is 3 inches long (7.62 cm) or less.

https://www.gov.uk/find-out-if-i-can-buy-or-carry-a-knife

24 replies, 1619 views

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Reply (2008) UK Sees Sharp Rise In Fatal Knife Attacks; call for tighter regulation (Original post)
HiPointDem Dec 2012 OP
RomneyLies Dec 2012 #1
HiPointDem Dec 2012 #4
Barack_America Dec 2012 #17
HiPointDem Dec 2012 #20
morningfog Dec 2012 #2
HiPointDem Dec 2012 #8
morningfog Dec 2012 #9
HiPointDem Dec 2012 #21
marmar Dec 2012 #3
HiPointDem Dec 2012 #5
marmar Dec 2012 #13
HiPointDem Dec 2012 #18
marmar Dec 2012 #19
HiPointDem Dec 2012 #22
spanone Dec 2012 #6
shraby Dec 2012 #7
morningfog Dec 2012 #10
HiPointDem Dec 2012 #11
HiPointDem Dec 2012 #14
HiPointDem Dec 2012 #15
jsr Dec 2012 #16
dipsydoodle Dec 2012 #12
msanthrope Dec 2012 #23
jpak Dec 2012 #24

Response to HiPointDem (Original post)

Sun Dec 16, 2012, 09:24 AM

1. 277 knife deaths in ONE YEAR???

 

That's about a week of the gun carnage in the US.

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Response to RomneyLies (Reply #1)

Sun Dec 16, 2012, 09:27 AM

4. yes, but people and politicians in uk aren't comparising themselves to the us. i'm posting the

 

stories to point out that whatever it is, the call is always for more regulation.


besides which, britain's crime rate has always been low in comparison to the us. even when i was a kid i heard the stories about the police who didn't have to carry guns cause england was so peaceful. that was 50 years ago.

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Response to HiPointDem (Reply #4)

Sun Dec 16, 2012, 09:44 AM

17. But you are.

And the UK's overall crime rate may be lower, but until Newton, they held the sad record for most young children slaughtered in a school. That's when they got rid of the handguns. Now they have, what was it I saw, 5 gun deaths per YEAR?

Our problem right now seems to be the semi-automatic rifles that serve no purpose other than target shooting and murder. I'm sorry, but I still say that anyone who claims they "need" them for hunting needs to learn how to shoot.

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Response to Barack_America (Reply #17)

Sun Dec 16, 2012, 09:53 AM

20. yes, *i* am. but not in the way you think. i'm really surprised at how few people want to look

 

at anything besides guns and mental health.

and actually, the record for children murdered at a school happened in 1927, i believe. in the us. with a bomb.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bath_School_disaster

and probably there are cases in places like iraq we in the us don't hear of.

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Response to HiPointDem (Original post)

Sun Dec 16, 2012, 09:26 AM

2. You are posting an article from 2008 to minimize the mass murders of children by guns.

Shame on you.

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Response to morningfog (Reply #2)

Sun Dec 16, 2012, 09:32 AM

8. actually, i posted two articles about knife attacks in china and uk to show that increased

 

regulation and punishment is always called for -- guns, knifes, meat cleavers, whatever.

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Response to HiPointDem (Reply #8)

Sun Dec 16, 2012, 09:35 AM

9. No, you posted two knife articles from 2008 and 2010 to

distract and muddy the waters. They have no relevance to what happened this week or anything in 2012. I hope they are locked as off-topic because they are.

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Response to morningfog (Reply #9)

Sun Dec 16, 2012, 09:55 AM

21. the "topic" is whatever people choose to post about. you seem to be saying that people may only

 

post about gun regulations, or lack of them, in regard to this shooting.

i'm not sure why you would think that way.

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Response to HiPointDem (Original post)

Sun Dec 16, 2012, 09:26 AM

3. It's hard to take out 27 people at once with a knife, though.

nt

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Response to marmar (Reply #3)

Sun Dec 16, 2012, 09:31 AM

5. you're right, 9 dead is much better odds.

 

On April 29 in Taixing, Jiangsu, 47-year-old Xu Yuyuan went to Zhongxin Kindergarten and stabbed 28 students, two teachers and one security guard; most of the Taixing students were 4 years old.

An attacker named Wu Huanming (吴环明, 48, killed seven children and two adults and injured 11 other persons with a cleaver at a kindergarten in Hanzhong, Shaanxi on May 12, 2010;

On 4 August 2010, 26-year-old Fang Jiantang (方建堂 slashed more than 20 children and staff with a 60 cm knife, killing 3 children and 1 teacher, at a kindergarten in Zibo, Shandong province

In September 2011, a young girl and three adults taking their children to nursery school were killed in Gongyi, Henan by 30-year-old Wang Hongbin with an axe. Another child and an adult were seriously wounded but survived

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/School_attacks_in_China_%282010%E2%80%932011%29

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Response to HiPointDem (Reply #5)

Sun Dec 16, 2012, 09:38 AM

13. 2 years in China, 1 (incomplete) year in the U.S.


and China has more than 4 times as many people as the US


Feb. 21: Norcross, Ga.
4 killed, plus shooter

Jeong Soo Paek, 59, a man with a history of violence and who had been asked to leave the family’s spa, returned later in the evening and killed his sisters and their husbands before shooting himself.
Feb. 27: Chardon, Ohio
3 killed, 2 injured

T.J. Lane, 17, a sophomore at another area school, reportedly walked into the Chardon High School cafeteria and fired 10 shots at four students sitting at a table. Lane has pleaded not guilty by reason of insanity; his trial is scheduled for January.
March 8: Pittsburgh
1 killed, plus shooter, 7 injured

A former Duquesne University teaching assistant who had been barred from campus, John Shick, 30, began shooting as he marched through a psychiatric hospital. He was shot dead by police.
April 2: Oakland
7 killed, 3 injured

Former nursing student One L. Goh, 43, who had dropped out of Oikos University, returned to the school, reportedly pulled an administrator into a nursing classroom, lined up students against the wall and began shooting them. He has pleaded not guilty and awaits trial.
April 6: Tulsa
3 killed, 2 injured

Jake England, 19, and Alvin Watts, 33, are accused of targeting random black men in four locations as they drove around town in an Easter weekend shooting spree. They are awaiting formal arraignment.
May 30: Seattle
5 killed, plus shooter, 1 injured

Ian Lee Stawicki, 40, who had a history of mental and behavioral problems, was asked by a barista to leave a coffee shop before he stood up and opened fire. He fled and killed himself as police closed in hours later.
July 20: Aurora, Colo.
12 killed, 58 injured

Grad student James Eagan Holmes, 24, reportedly entered a mall theater during a midnight showing of “The Dark Knight Rises,” set off gas canisters and opened fire. He awaits trial and has not entered a plea.
Aug. 5: Oak Creek, Wisc.
6 killed, plus shooter, 3 injured

White supremacist Wade Michael Page, 40, walked into a Sikh temple and opened fire just before Sunday services. Police wounded Page, who then fatally shot himself.
Aug. 13: College Station, Texas
2 killed, plus shooter, 4 injured

Thomas Caffall III, 35, opened fire on police who approached his house to serve an eviction notice about two blocks from the Texas A&M campus. Police shot the gunman and he died in custody.
Sept. 27: Minneapolis
6 killed, plus shooter, 3 injured

As Andrew Engeldinger, 36, was being fired from his job at a sign-making company, he pulled out a gun and shot his two managers, the owner, other employees and a UPS driver as he walked around the building before shooting himself.
Oct. 21: Brookfield, Wisc.
3 killed, plus shooter, 4 injured

Radcliffe Franklin Haughton, 45, a former Marine whose wife had obtained a restraining order against him three days earlier, entered the suburban Milwaukee spa where she worked and shot her and six other women before killing himself.
Dec. 11: Happy Valley, Ore.
2 killed, plus shooter, 1 injured

Former gyro shop employee Jacob Tyler Roberts, 22, wearing a white hockey mask, opened fire randomly inside a shopping mall. Officials said his gun, reportedly stolen from an acquaintance, jammed during the spree but he killed himself with a final shot.
Dec. 14: Newtown, Conn.
27 killed, plus shooter, unknown number injured

According to police, Adam Lanza, 20, entered Sandy Hook Elementary School and shot and killed 26 people, including 20 children, and then himself. Police said that Lanza killed his mother at a secondary crime scene.

http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-srv/special/nation/us-mass-shootings-2012/


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Response to marmar (Reply #13)

Sun Dec 16, 2012, 09:45 AM

18. you must have missed this:

 


and in response to the tiresome replies sure to follow:

1. i understand guns can kill more people more easily than knives.

2. i didn't post this to advocate against gun laws.

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Response to HiPointDem (Reply #18)

Sun Dec 16, 2012, 09:53 AM

19. Not saying you did, and not trying to start an argument.


Just following stats with stats, n'est-ce pas?


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Response to marmar (Reply #19)

Sun Dec 16, 2012, 09:58 AM

22. no problem then. but i think we're all aware that it's easier to kill lots of people with a gun

 

than with a knife. if we weren't, we've now been told so repeatedly by multiple people.

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Response to HiPointDem (Original post)

Sun Dec 16, 2012, 09:31 AM

6. 277 compared to...

In 2009, according to the United Nations Office on Drugs and Crime, 66.9% of all homicides in the United States were perpetrated using a firearm. There were 52,447 deliberate and 23,237 accidental non-fatal gunshot injuries in the United States during 2000. The majority of gun-related deaths in the United States are suicides, with 17,352 (55.6%) of the total 31,224 firearm-related deaths in 2007 due to suicide, while 12,632 (40.5%) were homicide deaths.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gun_violence_in_the_United_States

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Response to HiPointDem (Original post)

Sun Dec 16, 2012, 09:32 AM

7. Get off the knife shit okay? A knife can't hold a candle to the damage that can be done

with a gun. It's a straw argument and you know it.

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Response to shraby (Reply #7)

Sun Dec 16, 2012, 09:35 AM

10. If they have to go back to 2008 to make a point, they are clearly building strawmen.

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Response to morningfog (Reply #10)

Sun Dec 16, 2012, 09:37 AM

11. and in response to the tiresome replies sure to follow:

 



1. i understand guns can kill more people more easily than knives.

2. i didn't post this to advocate against gun laws.

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Response to morningfog (Reply #10)


Response to shraby (Reply #7)

Sun Dec 16, 2012, 09:39 AM

15. "and in response to the tiresome replies sure to follow:"

 


1. i understand guns can kill more people more easily than knives.

2. i didn't post this to advocate against gun laws.

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Response to shraby (Reply #7)

Sun Dec 16, 2012, 09:41 AM

16. Not to mention a knife is a lot easier to defend against or run away from

I can't believe people are still clinging to this comparison.

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Response to HiPointDem (Original post)

Sun Dec 16, 2012, 09:38 AM

12. And there was further legislation.

Maximum penalty for an adult CARRYING , without good reason, a knife is 4 years in prison AND a fine of £5,000.

As you can see its "being in possession of" : not necessarily "using with intent".

https://www.gov.uk/find-out-if-i-can-buy-or-carry-a-knife

Scotland has gone even further :

26/11/2012

The maximum penalty for carrying a knife is to increase from four to five years imprisonment, the Justice Secretary said today.

http://www.scotland.gov.uk/News/Releases/2012/11/knifecrime26112012

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Response to HiPointDem (Original post)

Sun Dec 16, 2012, 10:06 AM

23. My, this rings a bell! nt

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Response to HiPointDem (Original post)

Sun Dec 16, 2012, 10:11 AM

24. Gun nut apologist douchebaggery

yup

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