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Sat Dec 15, 2012, 11:53 PM

This was what it was like to grow up with a gun nut for a father.

My father has always been a gun nut.

I don't know how many guns he has now but I guarantee its enough to arm a small country and he has some pretty serious big weapons. I don't know what they are but they are big. I think he has an AK 47 among other assault rifles.

My father has guns of all sizes, he never leaves the house without one. He has a holster and a gun that will fit just about anywhere and he needs it "for protection"

When I was growing up it wasn't easy.

When I was a teenager, I actually never did anything or went anywhere but my parents always said I was "bad"

one day, after I refused to break up with a boyfriend they didn't like, I found myself being dragged in to the kitchen by my hair. My father was there and I suddenly had a gun in my face. I was told that if I didn't break up with the boy he would disappear.

There was another time when I was 16 that he kicked in the door of my room and unloaded an entire gun full of blanks at me, and he thought it was the funniest thing in the world. It gave me ptsd.

Roughly 6 years after I got married my mother died at the age of 51 of lung cancer.

Then my father started to drink too.

I have two brothers who lived with him at the time, one still does.

He would get drunk and shoot bullets in to the floor and leave the casings around and think it was funny for my brothers to see it.

He would call me drunk and tell me he was "playing with his guns" to the point that when the phone would ring I would turn white start shaking and practically throw up.

Now you may be wondering why I didn't call the police on him. Well that's just the problem. He was a cop at the time, so there would be no way that would work out well.

We finally moved away, and my father remarried. I keep my kids away from him because he still drinks and plays with his guns but he tells everyone I am a real bitch to keep his granddaughters away from him.

My childhood was abusive in different ways but I think the gun thing was almost the worst. I have tried to talk to him about it and he alway says 'parents make mistakes' he has never acknowledged the damage he did and says I never could take a joke.

Now if you ask the other cops and a lot of people on the outside they would all say he is a "responsible gun owner" he locks them up and stores them correctly but he was not behaving in a responsible manner as far as I am concerned. But there it is.

A while ago I sent a friend an e-mail about how important it is for a girl to have a good father. I dont know if he knew all of this, but having a bad father is just about the worst thing in the world.



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Reply This was what it was like to grow up with a gun nut for a father. (Original post)
Robyn66 Dec 2012 OP
MindMover Dec 2012 #1
Robyn66 Dec 2012 #4
gateley Dec 2012 #26
MindMover Dec 2012 #77
kag Dec 2012 #85
OneGrassRoot Dec 2012 #114
Robyn66 Dec 2012 #134
tavalon Dec 2012 #137
Robyn66 Dec 2012 #145
nadinbrzezinski Dec 2012 #6
alittlelark Dec 2012 #2
polly7 Dec 2012 #3
Robyn66 Dec 2012 #5
We People Dec 2012 #7
Robyn66 Dec 2012 #10
glinda Dec 2012 #22
pnwmom Dec 2012 #34
valerief Dec 2012 #11
Mr.Bill Dec 2012 #8
Beringia Dec 2012 #9
Robyn66 Dec 2012 #12
Cha Dec 2012 #13
Ilsa Dec 2012 #14
lolly Dec 2012 #15
Berlin Expat Dec 2012 #56
Texin Dec 2012 #80
Berlin Expat Dec 2012 #102
oldbanjo Dec 2012 #90
oberle Dec 2012 #93
EX500rider Dec 2012 #97
renate Dec 2012 #16
Robyn66 Dec 2012 #17
kimbutgar Dec 2012 #18
Bette Noir Dec 2012 #19
dchill Dec 2012 #28
Robyn66 Dec 2012 #66
left lowrider Dec 2012 #20
renate Dec 2012 #32
pnwmom Dec 2012 #35
Auntie Bush Dec 2012 #95
defacto7 Dec 2012 #21
vlyons Dec 2012 #23
Robyn66 Dec 2012 #49
Surya Gayatri Dec 2012 #68
tavalon Dec 2012 #107
Robyn66 Dec 2012 #110
tavalon Dec 2012 #117
tavalon Dec 2012 #136
Surya Gayatri Dec 2012 #121
Robyn66 Dec 2012 #123
Surya Gayatri Dec 2012 #125
tavalon Dec 2012 #135
Surya Gayatri Dec 2012 #140
tavalon Dec 2012 #141
Surya Gayatri Dec 2012 #142
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Robyn66 Dec 2012 #147
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Moostache Dec 2012 #24
Robyn66 Dec 2012 #47
doc03 Dec 2012 #25
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treestar Dec 2012 #59
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The Magistrate Dec 2012 #153
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Robyn66 Dec 2012 #131
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MuseRider Dec 2012 #129
Uncle Joe Dec 2012 #138
rufus dog Dec 2012 #139
Robyn66 Dec 2012 #144
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WilliamPitt Dec 2012 #146
Robyn66 Dec 2012 #154
yurbud Dec 2012 #150
Robyn66 Dec 2012 #155
yurbud Dec 2012 #157
JohnnyLib2 Dec 2012 #151

Response to Robyn66 (Original post)

Sun Dec 16, 2012, 12:04 AM

1. Thank you for sharing, this post took some guts to put it out there ...

As a mental health professional I sincerely hope you have had counseling ...

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Response to MindMover (Reply #1)

Sun Dec 16, 2012, 12:09 AM

4. YEARS of counseling

and I'm mostly ok. I put all my energy in to not becoming an abusive parent. It helped marrying a wonderful man that I met at the age of 18, we married at 25 and have been together ever since, we are 46 now. His family was so functional and good and I love his father so much that I dread the day he dies (he is in his 80's). But I think my husband and his family really saved my life. I was suicidal at times but right now I am incredibly happy. But that kind of damage never completely goes away.

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Response to Robyn66 (Reply #4)

Sun Dec 16, 2012, 02:01 AM

26. I am so glad that you're happy!

You have become such a wonderful parent and person, and you really consciously worked on it.

Sending you lots of love and hugs.

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Response to Robyn66 (Reply #4)

Sun Dec 16, 2012, 02:26 PM

77. Thank you for trusting again ... Bless you and your family ...

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Response to Robyn66 (Reply #4)

Sun Dec 16, 2012, 03:20 PM

85. Thank you for sharing this. One thing really touched me...

My father was not abusive, but he was mostly absent. My mom died when I was 16, and my brothers and I were mostly on our own after that. I, too, married a wonderful man who made me realize that not all men will be asshole fathers. I am so grateful that my son and daughter have a loving, funny, kind, intelligent father. It is incredibly important.

I never had to deal with the gun thing--thank god! I'm glad you have been able to heal and move on.

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Response to Robyn66 (Reply #4)

Sun Dec 16, 2012, 10:11 PM

114. whew....

No words but lotsa hugs for you!!!!





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Response to OneGrassRoot (Reply #114)

Mon Dec 17, 2012, 05:13 PM

134. back at you!

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Response to Robyn66 (Reply #4)

Tue Dec 18, 2012, 01:19 AM

137. I love your sig line, BTW!

Eddie Izzard - spot on and in heels.

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Response to tavalon (Reply #137)

Tue Dec 18, 2012, 01:33 PM

145. Thanks!

I am a HUGE Eddie Izzard fan!!!!!!

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Response to MindMover (Reply #1)

Sun Dec 16, 2012, 12:18 AM

6. + brazillion.

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Response to Robyn66 (Original post)

Sun Dec 16, 2012, 12:07 AM

2. KnR

......no text

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Response to Robyn66 (Original post)

Sun Dec 16, 2012, 12:08 AM

3. Living with that kind of fear is unimaginable.

He wasn't just irresponsible, he terrorized you and should have been behind bars himself, imo. I hope you've gotten help to deal with it.

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Response to polly7 (Reply #3)

Sun Dec 16, 2012, 12:11 AM

5. I have, thank you

I have devoted my life to making sure my children feel safe and loved.

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Response to Robyn66 (Original post)

Sun Dec 16, 2012, 12:20 AM

7. You were tortured and abused, that's all there is to it. You were entrapped in an earthly hell.

I wish for you that the rest of your life finds you with people who love and care about you; the same for others who suffer mistreatment from cruel parents or guardians.

Thanks for being willing to share about the ordeal you went through.

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Response to We People (Reply #7)

Sun Dec 16, 2012, 12:25 AM

10. I have been very fortunate

I have a wonderful husband and family of in-laws. They accepted me in spite of my not being very lovable for quite a while. When you grow up in a dysfunctional home you don't know what is normal and how to interact normally with a family so it is something you have to learn. I also have an over developed "fight or flight" response which makes me difficult at times to deal with. But they all love me anyway. It took a long time to accept that was possible.

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Response to Robyn66 (Reply #10)

Sun Dec 16, 2012, 01:23 AM

22. We share a few things..... and what you suffer from is

PTSD, like I do. And yes, you have to learn "normal". Blessings this season dear.

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Response to Robyn66 (Reply #10)

Sun Dec 16, 2012, 06:10 AM

34. I am so happy to hear you've found love. And I hope you never spend a second

feeling guilty about keeping your kids away from your abuser. (He doesn't deserve to be called father.) That is absolutely the right thing to do. Your obligation is to them now, not to him.

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Response to We People (Reply #7)

Sun Dec 16, 2012, 12:27 AM

11. Mistreatment from a gun-nut parent. When you fear more than a black eye.

I can't imagine that kind of hell.

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Response to Robyn66 (Original post)

Sun Dec 16, 2012, 12:22 AM

8. I had a girlfriend about 40 years ago that was in a similar situation.

You know how you go over to some peoples' houses and every door that will lock, such as the bathrooms, will hve a fist hole punched through them? At her house the doors had bullet holes in them. She said he held her by her throat one time with the barrel of a gun touching her forehead. he then jerked her head to the side and fired the gun. I didn't want to believe her but she showed me where the hole had been spackled over. Showed me other spackled holes, too.

The odd thing is, he wasn't a drinker and seemed totally normal and he and I got along great. That's why it was hard to believe her stories until she showed me proof.

I was just a kid at the time and didn't know what to about the situation, so I just got away from her and her family.

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Response to Robyn66 (Original post)

Sun Dec 16, 2012, 12:24 AM

9. What a terrible person he was

I am glad you have found love.

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Response to Beringia (Reply #9)

Sun Dec 16, 2012, 12:27 AM

12. Oh he is still alive

and I have to still deal with him but its a lot easier from a distance.

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Response to Robyn66 (Original post)

Sun Dec 16, 2012, 12:39 AM

13. Wow, Robyn.. I'm sorry you had

to through that Nighmare growing up.

I always wish I had had "a good father" too.. It would have made all the difference. So, it took me a really long time to learn some important things in life that having good role model for a father would have made so much better!

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Response to Robyn66 (Original post)

Sun Dec 16, 2012, 12:39 AM

14. I'm so glad you survived and found love. nt

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Response to Robyn66 (Original post)

Sun Dec 16, 2012, 12:39 AM

15. This is why I think the term "gun nut" is entirely appropriate

I know it's another non politically correct term, and politicians and newscaster won't use it for fear of offending "responsible gun owners."

But really, what non-nutty person obsessively collects killing machines? If you're a cop, or maybe a DA, or have other reason to fear attack, I can understand keeping one weapon (I don't necessarily agree that it makes you safer, but I can understand). But when you feel the need to fill the house with them, with weapons that could kill a lot of people very quickly, I would say that this tendency in itself is a symptom of mental illness.

You would have to be an angry, controlling, violent person to want to do that. I would guess that most if not all of these people who keep an arsenal around for "protection" are terrorizing someone.

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Response to lolly (Reply #15)

Sun Dec 16, 2012, 11:01 AM

56. I don't know; my late

father had an arsenal sufficient enough to stage a coup d'état in some smaller nations. Seriously.

He was a collector of exotic weapons, and he had an FFL, so I grew up around Thompsons, Mac-10s, BAR's, and the usual hunting rifles as well (he was a highly proficient hunter) not to mention pistols and revolvers of all calibers imaginable. I learned how to reload ammo by the time I was six, as he all the equipment for it.

He never, EVER used a gun in anger. He taught me, at a very young age, that a firearm is not a toy. He taught me the proper way to handle a firearm, and long before the NRA came up with their idea of "If you find a gun, don't touch it, and go find a police officer (or other responsible adult)" I had that drummed into my head. To the point that even today, over four decades later, I'm hyper-vigilant around firearms. I assume a weapon is loaded and behave accordingly.

My father never once hit me. I never once saw him drunk. Hell, I don't think I ever once saw him angry.

Sadly, he may have been in the minority.

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Response to Berlin Expat (Reply #56)

Sun Dec 16, 2012, 02:54 PM

80. There are responsible gun enthusiasts.

But the OP's father has more problems that just his fanaticism and drinking. He seems to have severe issues with depression and sounds from the related incidents to be in need of intensive psychiatric evaluation and treatment. This behavior is borderline and he's a danger to himself and to others IMO. I shudder to think that he's an officer of the law. It's terrifying to contemplate.

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Response to Texin (Reply #80)

Sun Dec 16, 2012, 06:52 PM

102. I totally agree

that the OP's father, IMHO, should under no circumstances be allowed to own anything more dangerous than a wooden butter knife. He's got massive problems. I must've glossed over in the OP where he's an officer of the law.....that's even worse.

I have a friend, a young lady, in Portland, OR. When I moved over here to the Czech Republic, I liquidated my weapons. She wanted to buy a handgun from me, privately, a .44 AutoMag (a really lousy gun, to put it bluntly, but it's a collector's item). I told her, quite frankly, "Hell no." When she asked why, I told her, also quite frankly, "Don't take this wrong way R_____, but you're the one person I can think of that's most likely to go on a shooting rampage or blow your brains out with it. You've got some major issues, and I for one am not going to be an accessory to either mass murder or your suicide." She got quite flustered when I told her that, but she later rather sheepishly acknowledged my assessment was pretty on the mark. We still e-mail each other, and she's managed to get some professional help for her problems. But even now 11 years later, I still wouldn't trust her with a firearm.

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Response to lolly (Reply #15)

Sun Dec 16, 2012, 03:57 PM

90. I have many guns for hunting, depends on what

and where i'm hunting. Different gun for different uses. I have guns for target shooting, I have pistols for snakes, this year I killed 11 snakes. Every gun that I have has a purpose, I wanted a pistol that I saw for years but I couldn't justify the cost, then something happened and I could justify it. The economy being bad has caused me to get guns that are cheaper to shoot.

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Response to oldbanjo (Reply #90)

Sun Dec 16, 2012, 04:35 PM

93. snakes?

What did they do to you? Or do you just hate snakes?

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Response to oberle (Reply #93)

Sun Dec 16, 2012, 05:37 PM

97. Some snakes..

...like rattlesnakes are dangerous to pets and children. (and adults)

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Response to Robyn66 (Original post)

Sun Dec 16, 2012, 12:41 AM

16. all those years of terror at that formative age

... I can't imagine. At a time when you needed to feel safe (well, we always need to feel safe, but especially in childhood), you didn't have anywhere else to go. How totally horrifying. I'm so sorry.

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Response to renate (Reply #16)

Sun Dec 16, 2012, 12:49 AM

17. I always wanted to run away

but somehow they always knew and my father would tell me he would "take care" of anyone I went to, so I couldnt do anything because I didnt want to put anyone in danger. Whenever I got too close to a teacher or a friend if I fought at all dragged into the kitchen again and got the gun in my face. I dont even remember why I kept fighting, I think probably because in some way I hoped the stupid gun would just go off and then it would all be over. But thank God that didnt happen and I am here now.

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Response to Robyn66 (Original post)

Sun Dec 16, 2012, 12:50 AM

18. Robyn you are a brave woman to share your story. Peace to you sister.

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Response to Robyn66 (Original post)

Sun Dec 16, 2012, 01:18 AM

19. Your dad and my dad could be twins.

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Response to Bette Noir (Reply #19)

Sun Dec 16, 2012, 02:20 AM

28. Wow - angry, scary twins.

Was that a horror movie? It could be.

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Response to Bette Noir (Reply #19)

Sun Dec 16, 2012, 12:52 PM

66. I am so sorry!

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Response to Robyn66 (Original post)

Sun Dec 16, 2012, 01:19 AM

20. I also had a gun nut for a father

He was never threatening to me but the guns were a symptom of his not being able to deal with the world without "something" inbetween him and everyone else. . . like a little security blanket. Gun people are generally not open or able to trust. Ultimately this kept me from ever really knowing him and kept him afraid of anything outside of his bubble.

He shot himself 4 years ago while my mom was in the house. Scared and in his bubble to the end.

As for you- there are many supportive comments on this thread. I would only add that you seem to have figured out the most important thing which is that you do not owe people who are not good to you ANYTHING. Keep your kids away- they deserve better. Grandpa is a role that must be earned.

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Response to left lowrider (Reply #20)

Sun Dec 16, 2012, 03:22 AM

32. as much as he suffered, that upbringing still must have been tough on you

You grew up compassionate... it's so sad to think of all the people who instead grow up protecting their hearts by staying in that bubble you mentioned. I'm sorry for his pain and for any effect it had on you.

Welcome to DU.

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Response to left lowrider (Reply #20)

Sun Dec 16, 2012, 06:18 AM

35. Welcome to DU, left lowrider!

And thanks for your contribution here.

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Response to left lowrider (Reply #20)

Sun Dec 16, 2012, 05:02 PM

95. Welcome to DU left lowrider.

Such a sad beginning here at DU.

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Response to Robyn66 (Original post)

Sun Dec 16, 2012, 01:21 AM

21. I'm so glad you survived and thrived...

It really hurts to hear that a father can be so cruel. It puts the world into focus and helps me be more understanding. Again, I am glad you made it through. Many do not find that strength to put good back where it belongs. That is a reflection on your resilience.

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Response to Robyn66 (Original post)

Sun Dec 16, 2012, 01:31 AM

23. Guns weren't the worst part

It was the constant invalidation, telling you that you were bad, worthless, etc. These men who think that women are less, that women must be controlled and obedient servants. More than likely, your Dad learned this behavior from his Dad, who learned it from his Dad, etc etc.

My Dad was a cop. He tried to rape me when I was 16. I ran into a bathroom and locked the door. He never went that far again, but he was always putting his hands on me in very inappropriate ways. I never told anyone. What good would it have done? He was a cop. His Dad left, and his grandDad also left their families. Where are these men supposed to learn how to relate? No wonder that some men hate and fear women.

Mostly I feel sorry for men. So much pressure on young boys to "act like a man," whatever the hell that means. Well congratulations on working on yourself and finding you own worth and value. Don't ever let anyone invalidate you. You are somebody, and so are your kids.

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Response to vlyons (Reply #23)

Sun Dec 16, 2012, 09:27 AM

49. Im so sorry that happened to you

You are right, the baseline in our house was "you start at worthless now start working your way up" My mother was extremely emotionally abusive, I dont remember what I did, but more than once she took every picture of me off the wall and threw them in the garbage, if my grades werent good, there was the silent treatment and being told I was a failure and would never amount to anything.

But they always spent tons of money on us at Christmas and Birthdays and we would always get told how ungrateful we were for being upset "because you got a stereo for Christmas"


And the sick thing is my father to this day truly beleives kicking someones door in and unloading a gun full of blanks is hillarious!

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Response to vlyons (Reply #23)

Sun Dec 16, 2012, 12:56 PM

68. "It was the constant invalidation, telling you that you were bad, worthless, etc."...

You said it all right there, vlyons.

Physical abuse may be more terrifying in the instant, but psychological abuse proves more insidious and destructive over the years.

edit typo

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Response to Surya Gayatri (Reply #68)

Sun Dec 16, 2012, 08:19 PM

107. Amen,

I'm still working things out and those two assholes who called themselves my parents are the reason. I almost preferred the physical abuse, it had a start and an end. The emotional abuse was worse. I'm so glad neither of my parents had guns, that would have escalated things horribly.

Remember years ago when the Menendez kids shot their parents as the parents were coming home. No one was sympathetic. I truly believe that had I had the means, there were many times when I would have killed my parents, I hated them so much. I felt sympathetic to those two kids. I got it.

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Response to tavalon (Reply #107)

Sun Dec 16, 2012, 09:25 PM

110. I did too!

I often wished I was physicaly abused because then it would just happen and be over but of course they arent mutually exclusive. You get the shit kicked out of you AND the emotional abuse as a bonus.

I supposed its twisted but I never got angry, I always wanted them to love me like I loved them, I always had some hope that there was something I could do to earn their love but that was impossible.

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Response to Robyn66 (Reply #110)

Mon Dec 17, 2012, 12:59 AM

117. I've done so much FOO (family of origin) work that I think I could pay for a mercedes.

I didn't think I was angry but I was so angry my subconscious refused to let me see it. It took a while and when I finally got in touch with my anger it seemed I would never be anything but angry! But that too passes.

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Response to Robyn66 (Reply #110)

Tue Dec 18, 2012, 01:18 AM

136. It's not twisted but I do feel sad when I hear that

My abuse didn't start until after my mother died (when I was eight). I was kidnapped by my father and equally demented stepmother. I think I was just on the cusp of reasoning so I never developed love for them but I was clearly influenced by them because hate is as powerful an emotion as love. I especially hated my stepmother, who never wanted me in her life and who was as sadistic as my own "dear" father.

I recognized very early in the situation that there was no one looking out for me. By the time I was 12 and found a way out of that hell, I was all grown up. 12 is way too early to be all grown up and I've spent much of my adult life learning how to be childlike in the joyous sense.

OTOH, three weeks into the complete destruction of my 11 year marriage, I find that I actually developed some skills that serve me now. If there is no one there for you at 8 years of age, you learn how to be your own best friend and advocate. I find I'm using those skills right now. However, I'm not allowing the "shut down all emotions" skill to become active. It's not in my best interest. I need to feel this pain, even when it threatens to overwhelm me. The only way out is through.

I really dislike, even hate violence. It's so endemic to our society and really what sort of sick society just whistles by that graveyard of fuckedupness?

Your childhood was different from mine, but no less horrific. I'm sorry that happened to you and to me. To us.

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Response to tavalon (Reply #107)

Mon Dec 17, 2012, 09:47 AM

121. Understand totally, tavalon. Many years later in therapy, I did "kill" them symbolically--

you know, beating them to death with a "bataka" (foam-covered club) on the shrink's footstool.

But then, somehow, they keep creeping back, like zombies rising from the shadowy corners of my mind.

Whipping, slapping and hair-pulling are nothing compared to emotional blackmail and dark mind games.

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Response to Surya Gayatri (Reply #121)

Mon Dec 17, 2012, 10:03 AM

123. I don't think its possible to completely get over it

but I have learned to try and recognize when I am falling in to destructive patterns and there are meditations that help bring me back from the old negative feelings.

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Response to Robyn66 (Reply #123)

Mon Dec 17, 2012, 10:36 AM

125. Agree completely, Robyn. The healing that comes with

peace through spiritual practice is the only real cure.

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Response to Surya Gayatri (Reply #121)

Tue Dec 18, 2012, 01:05 AM

135. Yup

I learned a really cool "grounding" exercise at therapy (yep, back in therapy for the last FOO I refused to do but who is determined to do me). Most grounding exercises have one look within, and I've never liked that because within is where the ghosts lie in wait. This one had me really focus on my surroundings and my anxiety by the end was much lower. It was a bit mind blowing.

Ah yes, the whipping, slapping, hair pulling reindeer games. Good times, good times (not). Did you ever get the one where they would lose something and you would be required to look for it and at preset times, return for the ritualized beating? They liked to run that one all night sometimes. Fucked up? You betcha.

And there wasn't a gun in site. By the end of my tenure in "Vietnam" as I "affectionately" called it, had there been a gun, I damn sure would have used it. What is it that the youngin's say these days, "I would have capped their asses." Instead, I resorted to throwing out my stepmother's favorite perfume and putting her precious dog's poop on their bed. Things for which I had plausible deniability. And no, the dog didn't get in trouble, if she had, I wouldn't have done that. I hated my parents. I've never hated any pet nor harmed any pet, accidentally or purposefully. I'm no dubya.

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Response to tavalon (Reply #135)

Tue Dec 18, 2012, 03:48 AM

140. It's the rebel in you that saved your life!

I was too scared to rebel while still in their house. But, once I was out on my own, I began a long litany of rebellious behaviors, often to my own detriment...

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Response to Surya Gayatri (Reply #140)

Tue Dec 18, 2012, 04:33 AM

141. Actually, that sort of behavior was restricted to my time with them

I had to shoplift to have enough to eat while I was trying to get to my maternal grandparents. Someone saw me, I saw them look right at me and then they looked away. I promised whatever deity I believed in at the time that I would never shoplift again if they got me to my grandparents. Bargains were kept all around.

Now, being a truthteller and a whistleblower - that has never left me. It makes my life a little harder but more authentic. Authenticity is so very important to me.

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Response to tavalon (Reply #141)

Tue Dec 18, 2012, 05:11 AM

142. So true about authenticity--what I couldn't bear and

what appalled me the most was the hypocrisy-- Jesus-loves-you talk, but abusive, hateful actions.

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Response to Surya Gayatri (Reply #142)

Tue Dec 18, 2012, 07:14 AM

143. Yep

I've had a longstanding policy of watch what they do, rather than what they say. Actions tell, words are just noise.

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Response to Surya Gayatri (Reply #140)

Tue Dec 18, 2012, 01:37 PM

147. There is a thread of strength in us

we dont know we have. I remember crying in the corner of my room praying I would die or just not wake up in the morning. I fought battles I was probably stupid to fight but I did get out eventually went through some not so great behavior in college but ended up ok. And have had to survive rape and cancer too! So! I have had an eventful life with no doubts of my strength when it was necessary.

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Response to Robyn66 (Reply #147)

Tue Dec 18, 2012, 01:39 PM

149. We're all the walking wounded, who've managed to

survive to tell the tale!

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Response to Robyn66 (Original post)

Sun Dec 16, 2012, 01:49 AM

24. I'm so sorry to hear your story...

But if there's any small consolation I can offer to you it is this - hearing what happened to you, and dealing with the events of the last 48 hours, made me hug my 3 girls (and my 2 boys) a lot longer and lot harder than usual. I do the best I can to be a good father to them everyday. I'll be trying to get better still every day I am with them on this Earth.

I hope that time and better days help heal you in the days to come. Godspeed.

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Response to Moostache (Reply #24)

Sun Dec 16, 2012, 09:21 AM

47. I am so glad to hear that

I think we are all hugging our children a little tighter right now no matter how old they are. I am so thankful my husband came in to my life when he did. I think he saved my life in more ways than one. I know I would be completely crazy or dead by now without him.

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Response to Robyn66 (Original post)

Sun Dec 16, 2012, 01:58 AM

25. My brother lives next to a cop. He has threatened to shoot my brother, he has shot

other peoples dogs that ventured into his yard, they just disappear nobody can prove it. A friend of my brother's borrowed a machete from him to cut some brush and when he walked past the cop's house the asshole approached him with a gun and took it. My brother stopped by the cop's house to ask for his machete back and the cop sicced his Doberman on him when he stepped out of his car. There are some seriously ill people out there that gravitate to those jobs, I know of more than one. Not saying all cops are bad but they do have some wackos. What do you do in a small town when you have a cop like that? If you try and do anything you don't know what he would be capable of doing in retaliation..

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Response to doc03 (Reply #25)

Sun Dec 16, 2012, 07:57 AM

40. OMG, this cop

is a walking nightmare. A psycho with a gun and badge!

Wish there were hidden cameras of his behavior or some evidence. He should be in jail or worse.

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Response to Robyn66 (Original post)

Sun Dec 16, 2012, 02:03 AM

27. Thank you for sharing your story...

I don't know what makes people this way. I do know that in law enforcement, there are a lot of domestic situations, so is it the traits that mate a person to a gun more likely to be this way, or the violence one see in that career.

You certainly never deserved this. I'm glad the work you've done to overcome it enabled you to be happy today.

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Response to Robyn66 (Original post)

Sun Dec 16, 2012, 02:34 AM

29. When I was young

a family in my neighborhood had a gun nut father. He also drank a lot and was an abusive father. He would shoot really near his son's head when he was sitting on the couch sometimes, stuff like that. One day, after most of the kids had moved away, he shot his wife, then himself. The wife had holes in her hands from vainly trying to fend off the bullets.
I can't imagine living such a life.

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Response to Spirochete (Reply #29)

Sun Dec 16, 2012, 02:43 AM

30. OK

 

A lady I know very well was raped by her father from the time she was 8 until she was 15. There wasn't a gun in the house. So all non gun nut fathers rape their daughters, right???
If I follow your way of thinking that is the only conclusion I can reach.
I am very sorry this woman had the parents she did and was treated in this manner but just because he did these things to her does not in any way mean that gun owners and gun advocates are the same as he is.
If your reasoning applies then so does mine. How many of you anti gunners are raping your daughters???
And about that father I was talking about, he came home one night drunk and high and attacked his daughter and her older brother killed him with a knife. She was 15 and that was when it stopped.

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Response to qkvhj (Reply #30)

Sun Dec 16, 2012, 06:58 AM

37. I'm trying to fathom the mind that would defend gun ownership in this thread

. . . but I cannot, and I'm glad I can't.

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Response to qkvhj (Reply #30)

Sun Dec 16, 2012, 08:04 AM

42. And we know you by your 36 posts! You're going off on a

non-sequitor tangent with your extrapolation that one comment = generalizations. What ludicrous thinking... So all non gun nut fathers rape their daughters, right??? If I follow your way of thinking that is the only conclusion I can reach.

Why the attack and the triple, obnoxious questions marks

No one here is painting with broadbrushes; they are sharing stories. What is your point. Get a grip and some logical thinking skills

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Response to Carolina (Reply #42)

Sun Dec 16, 2012, 11:13 AM

58. Thanks Carolina

You said it much better than I did.

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Response to qkvhj (Reply #30)

Sun Dec 16, 2012, 11:12 AM

57. I can't beleive anyone would respond in such a way

And if you think this is an anti-gun thread, you are WRONG.

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Response to BanzaiBonnie (Reply #57)

Sun Dec 16, 2012, 12:59 PM

69. It's not?

 

I certainly feel for the OP and the others in this thread that have shared. But it most certainly is an anti-gun thread.

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Response to qkvhj (Reply #30)

Sun Dec 16, 2012, 02:54 PM

79. And the 15 year old daughter may be dead if he was a gun nut

I think that's the point you are missing.
Because of such easy accessibility and the overall acceptance of gun culture as perfectly normal, it can add fuel to the fire. It gives assholes the one thing they crave the most...a sense of overwhelming power over everyone else. They know they can be as assholish as they want to and ain't no one gonna mess with them. And one day they go too far, get too drunk, or get too angry, or both, and reach for that one crutch that never lets them down, that never fails to intimidate those weaker. A sick and false way to feel "in control".

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Response to Robyn66 (Original post)

Sun Dec 16, 2012, 02:47 AM

31. That is sad. I feel for you.

 

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Response to Robyn66 (Original post)

Sun Dec 16, 2012, 03:25 AM

33. What a story!

Maintaining your distance is a good idea. You're an adult and don't need to deal with that BS anymore.

And definitely, keep the kids away from grandpa. He's something your kids don't want to aspire to be. And if he has a problem with you not visiting, that's his problem.

I can relate. My dad has a terrible temper especially when he drinks but fortunately he doesn't have a gun. My son doesn't want anything to do with him now after the last time we visited and I don't blame him.

So your kids aren't missing much not visiting. All it takes is one time for grandpa to get weird and that leaves a bad impression on your kids for life. But who knows. He could act like an angel around the grand kids.

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Response to Robyn66 (Original post)

Sun Dec 16, 2012, 06:26 AM

36. Thank you for sharing this with us.

I know that this must have been hard but it's therapeutic to let it out and helpful to people who are reading it. Those who may be gun nuts themselves or those who despise guns. I think more stories like yours mixed in with the reality we live in and how guns and gun violence permeate the culture will help hurry the tide for gun reform.

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Response to vaberella (Reply #36)

Sun Dec 16, 2012, 09:16 AM

45. I hope so

No one needs an arsenal.

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Response to Robyn66 (Original post)

Sun Dec 16, 2012, 07:22 AM

38. Thanks for sharing that. ITA how important it is for a girl to have a good father. I


had an abusive alcoholic father, who died from alcoholism when I was a kid. I have no pleasant memories of him.




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Response to raccoon (Reply #38)

Sun Dec 16, 2012, 09:12 AM

44. Its so true

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Response to Robyn66 (Original post)

Sun Dec 16, 2012, 07:49 AM

39. Thank you

for telling your story... I hope you have lovng, caring people around you now.

How did the one brother who does not live him turn out/feel?

You are so right about loving fathers. I was blessed to have had one and realize/appreciate that blessing all the more when I hear stories like yours and look at the world around me.

Your story should be part of the national discussion on guns. How doubly frightening that your father was a police officer... you must have had no confidence law enforcement

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Response to Carolina (Reply #39)

Sun Dec 16, 2012, 09:10 AM

43. My brothers

Last edited Sun Dec 16, 2012, 02:20 PM - Edit history (1)

My brother is a tragedy unto himself, he lives with my father still. He is a person who as Aspergers but has been undiagnosed officialy (I only know this because one of my daughters has Aspergers and their behaviors are identical). He says that he went through the "joke" of being shot at, but I dont remember that because I was away at college when my brothers were in their teens. He is currently unemployed, is a horder and needs help. I live too far away and have too many of my own responsibilities to do much to provide that help, SO my brother and I have been trying to get my father to get him help.

I have to give my father credit for one thing, he has been very free with his money to my brothers and lets my middle brother live with him for free. My fathers wife is a decent human being so nothing bad has happend for the 10 years they have lived in the house together that I know of and my brother comes up and visits frequently.

But my other brother and I are very worried about what will happen to our brother when my father dies, which may not be too long from now because he is sick with a "progressive lung disease" which is what he calls it.

My brother who DOESNT live with him, got married has two amazing little boys who I just worship. He doesnt drink (wont touch the stuff) and is an AMAZING father.

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Response to Robyn66 (Reply #43)

Sun Dec 16, 2012, 06:56 PM

104. Thank you, again, for the full

story. You and your brother with the amazing little boys have overcome so much and become wonderful parents. Peace to you and yours.

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Response to Robyn66 (Original post)

Sun Dec 16, 2012, 08:02 AM

41. Seems like he was just a nut...

 

Among other things, that had access to guns.

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Response to Robyn66 (Original post)

Sun Dec 16, 2012, 09:19 AM

46. Your father was abusive.

 

You should have been remove from his custody. But abusive parents are actually very common. My father was abusive. It didn't matter that he wasn't a gun nut.

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Response to frank380 (Reply #46)

Sun Dec 16, 2012, 09:44 AM

52. He was just a lot more dangerous because he was one.

Someone with a loaded gun in his hand only has to lose control for a split second to become a murderer.

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Response to Walk away (Reply #52)

Sun Dec 16, 2012, 11:48 AM

62. "Someone with a loaded gun in his hand only has to lose control for a split second


to become a murderer."

This one's a keeper!


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Response to Robyn66 (Original post)

Sun Dec 16, 2012, 09:22 AM

48. Robyn, your story is inspiring.

The amount of courage, devotion, and spirit you have shown in your life, after having experienced this nightmare in your family while growing up -- that is really a story of heroism. You have been blessed in finding a good husband with a good family. But above all, they and your children are blessed to have someone like you!

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Response to enough (Reply #48)

Sun Dec 16, 2012, 09:43 AM

51. Actually.....

Guns were a big part of our lives just about every day. He talked about the ones he had the ones he wanted, wanted us to watch him clean them, told us about people he wanted to shoot "right between the running lights" so I think being a gun nut had a lot to do with what he did.

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Response to enough (Reply #48)

Sun Dec 16, 2012, 09:12 PM

109. Thank you but my intention is not really to inspire anyone

I was in survival mode no more no less. I am pretty sure anyone in my position would have done the same thing. I am so grateful my husband and his family came along when he did so I didn't wind up with someone just as violent as my father. I know a lot of people are atheists here and I respect their feelings, but I felt like my husband was sent to me because it was at the absolute right place and right time.

I am finding it troubling to see the responses that think what I am doing is simply speaking against guns. What I am trying to make people understand is what it was like to live with someone who loves the power guns have and the power over people a gun can give to threaten and terrify and control. And to have it be behind closed doors so that to the outside he was the epitome of the "responsible" gun owner.l

I was given the "gun is not a toy" lecture, I was taken shooting. To this day my father wants to give me a gun and I say no.

He believes he is responsible, he believes I made him do what he did to me. He didn't want to do it but I was just so bad that I forced him to take such drastic measures.

This is the danger he did more damage sober than drunk. The stuff he did later in life when he was drunk was bad enough because I felt like it would be my fault if he killed himself. Now, he is saying that he is going to kill himself once the lung disease gets bad. Frankly, I don't care what happens to him anymore. He tries to manipulate me in to feeling bad for him but he did so much damage there isn't anything left for me to feel.


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Response to Robyn66 (Reply #109)

Mon Dec 17, 2012, 11:56 AM

132. You have conveyed the reality with great clarity.

I think it's really important for people to talk openly about the ways guns can play into family life and relationships. You have done a service by discussing these difficult realities.

A little off-topic, but connected. My father had Alzheimer's, and while I was taking care of him I participated in caregivers forums online. It was amazing how many families are dealing with the problems of gun-ownership and dementia. It's an even more difficult and dangerous situation than the problem of cars and driving. And it is apparently very widespread. Another element of the mental health aspect of gun-ownership.

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Response to Robyn66 (Original post)

Sun Dec 16, 2012, 09:29 AM

50. I am so sorry

Mere words cannot undue what you were subjected too.

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Response to Robyn66 (Original post)

Sun Dec 16, 2012, 09:57 AM

53. God, I've heard of child abuse, but that is horrendous!

K&R

I too had a "bad" father. And a "bad" stepfather too. But my two bad ones don't equal your one. Whew! But, there IS life without these kinds of fathers. Don't ever listen to his guilt trip about meeting your daughters. Please try to not think of this now. It's Christmas and you deserve a most joyous one with your family. Bless.

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Response to Robyn66 (Original post)

Sun Dec 16, 2012, 10:22 AM

54. I am truly sorry you had to experience all that. Horrific and scary!

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Response to Robyn66 (Original post)

Sun Dec 16, 2012, 10:47 AM

55. You are a survivor and your adult life serves as a role model

I am horrified at what you were subjected to, and grateful beyond words that you not only survived it, but overcame it the way you have. Thank you for posting your story.

Having a bad father ... my father shunned guns because of the war. He and my mother were immigrants, refugees from WW2 who lost their homeland to the Soviet Union, were cut off from their families behind the Iron Curtain. They were depressed, angry, messed up...

but that did not justify his beating me and my brother with his leather belt, screaming and raging at us, calling me a whore for no reason whatsoever, demanding total silence when he came home from work, browbeating my messed up mother into deep depression and prescription drug addiction and early death. My brother's life is a total wreck.

I am 60 and I still cringe when I see a leather belt, even though it has been 46 years since he last hit me with the belt. I cannot handle Christian church services because it is impossible for me to picture God as a father. Because I cannot even imagine a loving father. Long ago I decided to see the creator as Goddess Mother.

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Response to LiberalEsto (Reply #55)

Sun Dec 16, 2012, 08:32 PM

108. Funny that

The only nurturing presence in my whole childhood is my real mother who died when I was eight. I see the greater creator as a mother figure as well. I see Yahweh as much like my father so I don't let him play in my sandbox. I let Jesus in the sandbox because he was a real cool dude with lots of enlightening, helpful things to say. He tends to hang out with Buddha, it seems they have a lot in common and love to bounce ideas off each other. They make great sand sculptures together.

But maid, mother and crone are my guiding deities.

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Response to Robyn66 (Original post)

Sun Dec 16, 2012, 11:15 AM

59. Rec'd nt

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Response to Robyn66 (Original post)

Sun Dec 16, 2012, 11:31 AM

60. Shot blanks at you...!

Just before I arrived at the First Infantry Division at Fort Riley in the early 70's, a soldier shot a blank at another soldier during a training exercise and killed him. No bullet by mistake, it was the paper wadding in the blank, shot at close range, that penetrated his light summer uniform and killed him.

The death of a soldier in peacetime is a BIG deal in the Army. Real, real BIG. It went all the way to the division commander, to his superiors in 5th Army and to the Pentagon. Orders and warnings went out worldwide about the use of blanks in training. Later, a special deflector would be attached to the muzzle of M-16's. Today, they use lasers and more.

Your father is....well, you know.

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Response to Robyn66 (Original post)

Sun Dec 16, 2012, 11:34 AM

61. I have no words. :^( *hugs*

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Response to GreenPartyVoter (Reply #61)

Mon Dec 17, 2012, 02:30 PM

133. Thank you

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Response to Robyn66 (Original post)

Sun Dec 16, 2012, 11:51 AM

63. I can relate. My father only had a few guns, but only 'played' with them when he was drunk.

Unfortunately he was drunk about 5 days a week.

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Response to Robyn66 (Original post)

Sun Dec 16, 2012, 12:38 PM

64. So without the guns, he would have been Ward Cleaver?

 

I truly sympathize for what you went through but you are putting the blame in the wrong place.

Without the guns, he would have held a knife in your face and threatened your boyfriend.

Without guns, he would throw knives or shoot arrows in your direction to get a laugh.

The issue was not guns, the issue was that your dad was seriously masochistic and screwed up.

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Response to AlexSatan (Reply #64)

Sun Dec 16, 2012, 12:55 PM

67. Might want to rethink that post. It's incorrect and insensitive.

Masochistic? Uh, no. And the issue does involve guns. In this culture he could think of himself as more of a hero, as in control, as the good guy, rather than the sick, cruel, sadistic individual he was. Take it from me, the guns exacerbated the problem. How do I know? Years of talking to people with mental health issues and carefully being sure guns are removed from their impulsive access to them so they can't harm themselves or others. Stabbing is rare. Virtually no one in this culture has the fantasy of being a big hero and carrying a knife to prove it.

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Response to nolabear (Reply #67)

Sun Dec 16, 2012, 01:23 PM

72. Good catch

 

Sorry, I did mean sadistic but was distracted.

Otherwise, my post holds just fine. Stabbing is not rare. Unless you consider shooting with long guns to be rare. The number of homicides via knife versus non-handgun guns is almost the same.

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Response to AlexSatan (Reply #72)

Sun Dec 16, 2012, 02:45 PM

78. So let's cut that by half, whatsay?

Why not?

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Response to nolabear (Reply #78)

Sun Dec 16, 2012, 02:54 PM

81. Unless you want to actually use real data, sure

 

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Response to AlexSatan (Reply #81)

Sun Dec 16, 2012, 03:55 PM

88. I don't get your point (seems to support mine except moreso) but this I know.

I'm a mental health practitioner. I talk to people on a regular basis who I assess for the potential to comment violence on themselves or others. They are seldom "evil" and are sometimes very Ward Cleaver, but they have illnesses that can cause them to sometimes inhabit a part of themselves, unwillingly, that we all have the capacity to inhabit but can manage not to. The very first thing I speak to them about when they tell me that they can be in those frames of mind is what they have access to. If they have guns in the house I ask them to give them to someone for safekeeping until they and I can figure this thing out, can try to get them into a state of mind where they are not likely to use the weapon. Sometimes it will never be okay, sometimes it can improve, particularly for suicidal people.

It's a matter of buying time. One can kill with a knife but it takes longer and is more dangerous to the self to attack another with a knife. Not perfect but better. One can run someone over with a car but it takes effort and somewhere, maybe, MAYBE, the act can be interrupted and the healthy part of the person reached and brought in to fight the disease.

The OP is particularly poignant because the illness is one that is not one that recognizes its fault; it is one that externalizes rage and blame, and those people don't tend to come to therapy. But their families often do, and that's when I encourage them to get away, fast, and we go from there. Not perfect, but better. If we're lucky.

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Response to AlexSatan (Reply #64)

Sun Dec 16, 2012, 09:27 PM

111. Take it somewhere else. Your insensitivity is stunning. nt

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Response to AlexSatan (Reply #64)

Mon Dec 17, 2012, 01:00 AM

118. Yo Satan

Way insensitive post. Surely you didn't think this one through, eh?

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Response to tavalon (Reply #118)

Mon Dec 17, 2012, 09:25 AM

120. I recognize

 

that it was somewhat insensitive. I, admittedly, and often blunt and not very sensitive by my nature.

However, I have never found it useful to allow people to go through their lives putting blame in places where it doesn't really make sense without at least offering them what seems like the more logical source of their problems.

I obviously recognize I am not always right but it is clear the father here was a bit sadistic (not masochistic) and blaming his actions on guns helps no one.

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Response to AlexSatan (Reply #120)

Mon Dec 17, 2012, 09:48 AM

122. Guns are part of his self-image. They are a source of his perceived power.

Guns are his personal obsession.

You are trying to separate guns out of the equation, and you can't. Guns are much more fatal and easier to use than knives and blunt instruments. Nothing will change that. They are much more dangerous in a brief loss of control.

Yes, he is a sadist, and has many other issues, I'm sure, but he is MORE dangerous than he otherwise would be because of all his guns.

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Response to kwassa (Reply #122)

Mon Dec 17, 2012, 10:06 AM

124. And if it weren't for guns

 

knives would be part of his self-image. Same stuff, different tool. If not knives, it would be something else.

Regardless, for someone living in his house, under his control, it is all equally as bad.

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Response to AlexSatan (Reply #124)

Mon Dec 17, 2012, 10:38 AM

126. You are speaking like you know him

You have no idea what you are talking about. All he is about is guns, guns took someone who was a failure in the military and made him a bad-ass to people who were weaker than him. He has knives, lots of them but never used them to threaten-probably kind of weird but it was obvious that the guns give him a rush the knives don't.

The main point I was trying to make was that to the outside, my father is the perfect example of the responsible gun owner. Ammo stored separately, guns in safes has actually taught classes in gun safety but in reality at home was something all together different.

He never threw knives at us, he shot at us. The weird thing is he probably would have physically hurt us if he if he threw knives at us and he didn't want to physically hurt anyone, it was all about the intimidation and the threatening. So yes it was the guns, it was always the guns.

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Response to Robyn66 (Reply #126)

Mon Dec 17, 2012, 10:49 AM

127. Obviously

 

you are more knowledgeable on this then I am so I will obviously defer to you assessment and back away.

The only thing I ask you to consider is: what do you think he would have been like if guns were not in his life? Clearly, I'm not demanding or expecting and answer, just providing food for thought.

Thanks for your response and I am sorry for what you had to go through.

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Response to AlexSatan (Reply #127)

Mon Dec 17, 2012, 11:16 AM

130. For him to not have guns in his life,

his life would have needed to follow a different path and he would not be where he is now. He would have become a totally different person. He literally loves guns, talks about them constantly loves talking about clip capacity, ammunition, number of guns you name it.

I truly cant imagine him without guns.

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Response to AlexSatan (Reply #120)

Wed Dec 19, 2012, 02:08 PM

156. By choice, rather than by nature.

"not very sensitive by my nature...."

By choice, rather than by nature; although I do recognize it's much more convenient to blame our boorishness on fate and biology rather than on ourselves.

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Response to AlexSatan (Reply #64)

Tue Dec 18, 2012, 01:39 PM

148. The Fail Club gains another member.

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Response to WilliamPitt (Reply #148)

Wed Dec 19, 2012, 12:26 AM

153. True, Sir: Calls Hisself 'Satan' And Cannot Tell Masochism From Sadism....

Among other startlingly cclear indicators he is more farting than talking, so to speak....

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Response to Robyn66 (Original post)

Sun Dec 16, 2012, 12:45 PM

65. I had a grandfather like that. Cop and all. I'm so glad you're doing well.

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Response to Robyn66 (Original post)

Sun Dec 16, 2012, 01:20 PM

70. My answer....

I would have broken into his gun stash, gathered them all up, taken them to a bridge and thrown them in the water.

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Response to Gary 50 (Reply #70)

Sun Dec 16, 2012, 06:22 PM

100. Monday morning quarterbacking...

Living in terror, that scenario is totally bogus. You'd want to do it; you'd fantasize doing it; but it would never happen, even if you had a dozen allies helping you. As a child and teenager, this OP was imprisoned by REAL threats and suggesting that some phoney, macho action was possible for her is beyond offensive.

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Response to Ineeda (Reply #100)

Sun Dec 16, 2012, 07:15 PM

106. +1. The Renaissance scholar Stephen Greenblatt wrote a great book with

 

the title 'Renaissance Self Fashioning' that basically argues that members of the upper class in the Renaissance 'constructed' their identities by use of common cultural morays and fashions. In like manner, I would propose 'Internet Self Fashioning,' whereby various internet users go online to construct portraits of themselves as they would ideally like to be and to be seen. The fantasy you rightly flag may actually be the response of someone trapped in a similarly abusive situation - may still be trapped indeed - who failed to escape and who is using the internet to fashion an 'ideal self' that does not mesh with a common person's understanding of what it is like being trapped in an abusive relationship.

You'd probably really enjoy Greenblatt's book by the way, if you get a chance Too many books, too little time.

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Response to Robyn66 (Original post)

Sun Dec 16, 2012, 01:22 PM

71. Oh Jesus, what a jerk!

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Response to Odin2005 (Reply #71)

Mon Dec 17, 2012, 11:29 AM

131. HI Odin

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Response to Robyn66 (Original post)

Sun Dec 16, 2012, 01:28 PM

73. Well you sound like you are on the road to recovery. Because honestly I don't know

 

if you ever truly get over that frightful experiences. I mean for a father to stick a gun in his daughters face and threaten a boyfriends life is something you never forget. No matter how I counselling you get. I pray that you can forgive your father someday. I know you what get over it.

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Response to Robyn66 (Original post)

Sun Dec 16, 2012, 01:50 PM

74. Another survivor of gun nut father

Wow, read this post and started shaking because it bought back on the fear I had growing up in my family. Lived in the city; father had plenty of guns, rifles and ammo. I remember when he was drunk he'd go into the alley whenever he would hear anyone and approach people and try to put his gun in their mouth and say what are you doing in my alley (it wasn't ours). Talk to my brother, who had to jump out of a second floor window many times because my father thought it was funny for him and my uncle to wake him up by putting a gun to his head. In my senior year, my father didn't want me to see my now husband and roamed Woodland Avenue w/a rifle. Talk about fear. Also in my senior year, I was given permission to have an 18 birthday party and my dad was drunk by 1pm. He got mad at my mother and me for having the party and put the gun to his head saying he was going to kill himself - my mother lunged at him and the gun went off with the bullet going through the wall through the coffee pot, smashing out the dining room window - hours before 15 of my friends were to arrive.

Fortunately my father is dead because if he were alive today, he'd be targeting people with his gun and then say he was "Standing his Ground" He'd always say that if he knew he was going to die, he was going to take alot of other people out with him. My father was a lunatic and should have never had all the guns he did.

The family would get into a habit that when he was real drunk we'd remove the ammo and hide it in a separate place. Even that was hard because my dad would threaten to kill you unless you found and put the ammo back in his guns.

True story; this is America.

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Response to Robyn66 (Original post)

Sun Dec 16, 2012, 01:56 PM

75. Sounds more like

just a nut who owned guns.

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Response to Robyn66 (Original post)

Sun Dec 16, 2012, 02:22 PM

76. I'm discusted by the replies here who think your Dad wasn't a gun nut.

He was textbook.

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Response to sellitman (Reply #76)

Sun Dec 16, 2012, 03:13 PM

83. Oh, he was a gun nut

but that wasn't the problem. The obvious problems of being an abusive, violent and alcohol-dependent jackass are being glossed over by some saying his guns were what made him a bad person. Guns don't make people bad. Chemical imbalances, conditioning and temperament do.

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Response to bobclark86 (Reply #83)

Sun Dec 16, 2012, 05:03 PM

96. Yet without the guns

He would have a tougher time becoming a mass murderer.

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Response to Robyn66 (Original post)

Sun Dec 16, 2012, 03:11 PM

82. This is the kind of abusive asshole...

who needs to be reported. He is a threat to others. The police should have been called years ago and this man needs to be involuntarily committed for treatment. Putting guns in faces over a boyfriend? Getting bored and shooting the floor? This asshole needs drugs, and lots of them. I don't think the guns are the problem, but an abusive, sick individual (in fact, I think it doesn't belong in this forum, and I'd start it with "My dad has always been an abusive man prone to violence"). He NEEDS to be treated (and should have 20 years ago).

We need a drastic overhaul to our mental health system, but what we really need is for people to get over the stigma of mental illness and to speak out about problems before it's too late -- and for those in positions of authority to take them seriously.

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Response to bobclark86 (Reply #82)

Sun Dec 16, 2012, 03:57 PM

91. +1

and welcome to the Democratic Underground!!

Excellent post!!!



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Response to Robyn66 (Original post)

Sun Dec 16, 2012, 03:16 PM

84. I would bet money that your father came from an abusive home.

In other words, it isn't the guns. It's the person.

I came from the exact opposite family. I wanted a Winchester rifle so badly I cried. Yet, when the twin towers came down, my father was one of just a handful of people on the planet who advocated forgiveness. Even on DU that notion will get flames. Forgive Bin Laden! How dare you! Yes. And think of where we'd be today. The same goes for raising children. Think of how good a world it would be if children were able to improve their lives instead of working through the emotional trauma like what you went through.

I'm just glad you're here. It means you've transcended a lot.

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Response to Robyn66 (Original post)

Sun Dec 16, 2012, 03:47 PM

86. Wow, how horrible!


I'm really sad for you.

My father was in the Marine Corps. during WWII and he had guns in the house but he never told anyone about them. If I'd known, he would have had hell to pay w/me as his best friend from work had a son that was playing around with his father's gun when he was away and somehow the gun discharged and he shot himself dead.

My father knew fully well how I feel about guns. I HATE them -- four friends murdered, two suicides, one accident ... *ack* !!!!

This was a long time ago, many years ago, but I remember it like it was yesterday. The looks on the faces of his parents, my father's reaction to it -- the whole thing.

I'm glad to know that you have recovered to a point but the scars will always be there from this mean SOB man known as your father.

I hope that you stay the hell away from him. He sounds like a sick SOB to me.


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Response to Robyn66 (Original post)

Sun Dec 16, 2012, 03:49 PM

87. Thank you for sharing

 

My dad was a cop, and a fascist - -but somehow he felt it important that neither I nor my brother were exposed to guns

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Response to Robyn66 (Original post)

Sun Dec 16, 2012, 03:56 PM

89. Holy Smokes, I Thought I Had It Bad

it's terrifying as a child to grow up around threats, alcohol and verbal/physical abuse.
When I was in my 30's, my mom never admitted to her alcohol abuse, constant threats of suicide - she shrugged it off, I never did that!

Good for you keeping your children away from him.

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Response to Robyn66 (Original post)

Sun Dec 16, 2012, 04:27 PM

92. Condolences - Wish We Could Take The Painful Memories Away

eom

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Response to Robyn66 (Original post)

Sun Dec 16, 2012, 05:01 PM

94. BIG HUG

sorry you had to endure all that .

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Response to Robyn66 (Original post)

Sun Dec 16, 2012, 05:40 PM

98. Thats your experience

 

My condolences. But I too partially grew up with a "gun nut" father (until my parents divorced), and he never did anything like what your dad was up to. Sounds like your dad's problem wasn't guns -- there is/was something far wrong that goes beyond firearms.

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Response to Robyn66 (Original post)

Sun Dec 16, 2012, 06:05 PM

99. Thanks for sharing

I know what its like living with a mean drunk for a father, but you dealt with guns too.

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Response to Robyn66 (Original post)


Response to Robyn66 (Original post)

Sun Dec 16, 2012, 06:54 PM

103. You're a good mother, imo

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Response to usregimechange (Reply #103)

Sun Dec 16, 2012, 09:41 PM

112. Thanks!

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Response to Robyn66 (Original post)

Sun Dec 16, 2012, 07:12 PM

105. And this is why

we can't just arm school personnel

Think of all the horror stories we know about some police.

We can't have armed "trained" staff members walking through schools.

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Response to Robyn66 (Original post)

Sun Dec 16, 2012, 10:06 PM

113. Thank you for this.

As a survivor of abuse as well, I find myself frequently explaining the relationship of my childhood trauma & the weapons my family kept. Years of therapy have helped me deal with so much from my past, but there are still triggers: the fragrances my parents wore, heavy drinkers and the sight of a handgun outside of a range.
Yes, I grew up knowing how to use weapons & to respect them, but it didn't help me when my parents drank and threatened me with them. People have asked me why I never used a gun on my parents in self-defense. I find people who grew up w/o the violence we lived through honestly have no idea what it does to a person. And I am envious.

My advice to everyone is simple: listen to survivors of abuse and violence, no matter what kind. Don't play 'Devil's Advocate', don't diminish the suffering, & become a true ally. Even if that means that you have to give up your notions about childhood. About guns. About the plague that is violence. Because those ideas, held so dear, are not universal experiences.

{{{hugs}}}} to you, Robyn66, & a huge THANK YOU for addressing this oh-so-frequently missed aspect of our weaponized society.

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Response to lupinella (Reply #113)

Mon Dec 17, 2012, 08:30 AM

119. Thank you! You captured it perfectly!

I was too focused on "getting through" and I know in my case there was no hope of escape. I never really considered it a serious option. I was a kid.

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Response to Robyn66 (Original post)

Sun Dec 16, 2012, 10:22 PM

115. I cannot imagine that kind of abuse. Hugs to you Robyn66

and thanks for having the guts to put this out there.

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Response to Robyn66 (Original post)

Sun Dec 16, 2012, 10:39 PM

116. " having a bad father is just about the worst thing in the world "

Hits me like a ton of bricks.
No matter how much time has passed it still is with me.
Every Day of My Life......

Changed me .....my whole life.

Horrible to feel...but it is what it is.

So glad he is dead.

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Response to Robyn66 (Original post)

Mon Dec 17, 2012, 10:51 AM

128. I am truly sorry for what you had to go through

No parent should ever do that to a child. It is callous, abusive, and beyond wrong.

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Response to Robyn66 (Original post)

Mon Dec 17, 2012, 11:09 AM

129. Oh dear.

He will never admit to being wrong for anything he has done to you if he is like most. My father never had a chance to say much before he died fairly suddenly but he never would have thought anything he did to me and my brothers was not his prerogative as a father.

You are doing the best thing in the world for your daughters. I kept my sons from my one of brothers for much the same reasons.

If you have not seen someone for the PTSD please do. It took me 30 years to do that, I saw a PTSD specialist. It is still a problem but not nearly as much as it was. Please, for yourself and for your daughters, your life will be so much better.

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Response to Robyn66 (Original post)

Tue Dec 18, 2012, 01:20 AM

138. Kicked and recommended.

Thanks for sharing, Robyn

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Response to Robyn66 (Original post)

Tue Dec 18, 2012, 01:23 AM

139. Sorry Robyn

I can't offer anything more, but your post makes me sad.

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Response to rufus dog (Reply #139)

Tue Dec 18, 2012, 01:32 PM

144. But you know what,

I survived, and had kids who are happy and healthy and secure. And they have a great father who protects them and loves them, so in the long run I won the war. My father can fling his shit all he wants, he has to live with the fact that deep down he knows he has driven me away even if he cant admit he abused me. And he is very sick, most likely dying and he doesnt have his kids around him caring for him. He is the one who lost out. He has his booze his cop friends and his guns.

It is a sad ending for him but unless he admits what he did and stops drinking there is no other way it can play out.

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Response to Robyn66 (Reply #144)

Wed Dec 19, 2012, 12:22 AM

152. You go Girl!

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Response to Robyn66 (Original post)

Tue Dec 18, 2012, 01:35 PM

146. Just saw this.

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Response to WilliamPitt (Reply #146)

Wed Dec 19, 2012, 01:43 PM

154. Now you know

why I got all gushy in that e-mail!

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Response to Robyn66 (Original post)

Tue Dec 18, 2012, 05:52 PM

150. did anybody else in the neighborhood think it was so dangerous they needed guns?e

Even if that was the case, I would think a cop makes enough money to move to a fairly safe neighborhood.

Obviously "protection" is just an excuse.

I'm just wondering how small the fig leaf was.

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Response to yurbud (Reply #150)

Wed Dec 19, 2012, 01:50 PM

155. The neighborhood was fine, no fig leaf even attempted

He doesn't hide his love of guns. He has them because he loves them. He carried one to my nephews baptism. He ALWAYS has a gun on. He just loves his guns. He calls himself a "collector". I call him a "gun nut", the "protection" thing is a steaming pile and he knows it.

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Response to Robyn66 (Reply #155)

Wed Dec 19, 2012, 10:27 PM

157. wow--you would think members of the extended family would be nervous about inviting him

to anything as much as you are.

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Response to Robyn66 (Original post)

Tue Dec 18, 2012, 05:59 PM

151. Hugs and thanks, Robyn


And the thought, "what a resilient woman!"

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