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Sat Dec 15, 2012, 11:40 PM

This blaming those of us mentally ill for your fucking gun problems is getting tiresome.

Find some other convenient group to blame.

Really.

If the mentally ill were TRULY to blame for these crimes against God, humanity and children, the streets would run red 24/365.

WE DON'T EXIST FOR THE VAST MAJORITY OF YOU UNTIL SOME SHIT LIKE THIS HAPPENS.

We are more likely to be victims of violent crime than to ever commit one.

The vast majority of us are a threat to no one other than to ourselves.


And shame on you for gleefully ignoring us until you need to find someone to blame.

124 replies, 7664 views

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Reply This blaming those of us mentally ill for your fucking gun problems is getting tiresome. (Original post)
cliffordu Dec 2012 OP
cliffordu Dec 2012 #1
nadinbrzezinski Dec 2012 #2
Mojorabbit Dec 2012 #85
nadinbrzezinski Dec 2012 #96
Spider Jerusalem Dec 2012 #97
Shivering Jemmy Dec 2012 #3
liberal_at_heart Dec 2012 #6
Scootaloo Dec 2012 #8
Arugula Latte Dec 2012 #11
Zoeisright Dec 2012 #75
iemitsu Dec 2012 #86
Deep13 Dec 2012 #82
Arugula Latte Dec 2012 #105
Abq_Sarah Dec 2012 #121
tblue Dec 2012 #78
napoleon_in_rags Dec 2012 #114
rainlillie Dec 2012 #57
easttexaslefty Dec 2012 #103
Live and Learn Dec 2012 #106
alittlelark Dec 2012 #4
liberal_at_heart Dec 2012 #5
corneliamcgillicutty Dec 2012 #101
Gregorian Dec 2012 #7
BainsBane Dec 2012 #10
liberal_at_heart Dec 2012 #17
ReRe Dec 2012 #44
liberal_at_heart Dec 2012 #47
ReRe Dec 2012 #55
TorchTheWitch Dec 2012 #91
BainsBane Dec 2012 #92
BainsBane Dec 2012 #94
Gregorian Dec 2012 #100
BainsBane Dec 2012 #112
BainsBane Dec 2012 #113
loyalsister Dec 2012 #9
liberal_at_heart Dec 2012 #13
loyalsister Dec 2012 #15
KILL THE WISE ONE Dec 2012 #12
BainsBane Dec 2012 #19
Fearless Dec 2012 #14
BainsBane Dec 2012 #21
Fearless Dec 2012 #24
BainsBane Dec 2012 #30
Skittles Dec 2012 #60
BainsBane Dec 2012 #64
Skittles Dec 2012 #68
BainsBane Dec 2012 #70
AtheistCrusader Dec 2012 #27
BainsBane Dec 2012 #28
AtheistCrusader Dec 2012 #31
zabet Dec 2012 #16
liberal_at_heart Dec 2012 #20
zabet Dec 2012 #80
renate Dec 2012 #66
zabet Dec 2012 #72
liberal_at_heart Dec 2012 #73
zabet Dec 2012 #83
orleans Dec 2012 #18
coldbeer Dec 2012 #22
Zoeisright Dec 2012 #76
orleans Dec 2012 #117
mindwalker_i Dec 2012 #23
defacto7 Dec 2012 #25
Dustin DeWinde Dec 2012 #26
liberal_at_heart Dec 2012 #29
BainsBane Dec 2012 #32
liberal_at_heart Dec 2012 #34
BainsBane Dec 2012 #35
liberal_at_heart Dec 2012 #36
BainsBane Dec 2012 #38
liberal_at_heart Dec 2012 #40
BainsBane Dec 2012 #48
liberal_at_heart Dec 2012 #49
BainsBane Dec 2012 #51
BainsBane Dec 2012 #54
Skittles Dec 2012 #84
Zoeisright Dec 2012 #77
BainsBane Dec 2012 #79
letemrot Dec 2012 #33
BainsBane Dec 2012 #37
letemrot Dec 2012 #39
BainsBane Dec 2012 #42
letemrot Dec 2012 #45
BainsBane Dec 2012 #52
letemrot Dec 2012 #56
BainsBane Dec 2012 #61
letemrot Dec 2012 #71
BainsBane Dec 2012 #74
TorchTheWitch Dec 2012 #93
BainsBane Dec 2012 #95
letemrot Dec 2012 #41
BainsBane Dec 2012 #43
letemrot Dec 2012 #46
letemrot Dec 2012 #50
BainsBane Dec 2012 #58
letemrot Dec 2012 #59
BainsBane Dec 2012 #63
Skittles Dec 2012 #62
letemrot Dec 2012 #65
Skittles Dec 2012 #67
letemrot Dec 2012 #69
graham4anything Dec 2012 #53
Deep13 Dec 2012 #81
Tsiyu Dec 2012 #87
arthritisR_US Dec 2012 #88
Tsiyu Dec 2012 #99
arthritisR_US Dec 2012 #104
Cetacea Dec 2012 #118
arthritisR_US Dec 2012 #124
lbrtbell Dec 2012 #89
Cetacea Dec 2012 #119
DonCoquixote Dec 2012 #90
etherealtruth Dec 2012 #98
Live and Learn Dec 2012 #109
etherealtruth Dec 2012 #111
madrchsod Dec 2012 #102
WinkyDink Dec 2012 #107
Live and Learn Dec 2012 #108
Rex Dec 2012 #110
LineNew Reply .
riderinthestorm Dec 2012 #115
Chorophyll Dec 2012 #116
ellisonz Dec 2012 #120
RedCappedBandit Dec 2012 #122
AngryOldDem Dec 2012 #123

Response to cliffordu (Original post)

Sat Dec 15, 2012, 11:46 PM

1. KIcking it just cause I'm a little pissed.

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Response to cliffordu (Reply #1)

Sat Dec 15, 2012, 11:53 PM

2. It is a public health issue

And mental health is part of the puzzle, but let's be fair, most who are mentally ill and use a gun to hurt anybody, it is themselves. Suicide is the number one casualty of fire arms.

We can argue how much mental health plays into this, but unless we address this in the totality, forget about it.

If this gets more funding to mental health programs, that are sorely needed, I see that as a win-win.

For the record, I don't blame mentally ill people for this epidemic...it is my much deeper than a single cause.

Changing laws as to what people can have, even if that hurts the sensibilities of the precious flowers among us, must be a federal priority as well.

Hugs.

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Response to nadinbrzezinski (Reply #2)

Sun Dec 16, 2012, 04:23 AM

85. Well there are some very strict gun laws in Conn

and they did nothing to help avoid this situation.I looked it up and they really do have some hefty laws there.
The mental health infrastructure in this country is awful. It was awful back in the seventies when I was doing rotations in psych before and after warehousing, and it is awful now. I don't have an answer. This is an awful awful tragedy and I am so sad. A damaged soul did unthinkable harm to so many families.

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Response to Mojorabbit (Reply #85)

Sun Dec 16, 2012, 10:05 AM

96. The bushmaster was bought across state lines

And this is an NRA talking point...in reality there is a direct correlation between more strict laws and less violence.

Sorry if now I will call talking points for what they are.

People want to have those riffles...JOIN THE GUARD, that was the original intent of the founders.

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Response to Mojorabbit (Reply #85)

Sun Dec 16, 2012, 10:10 AM

97. Not that strict

permit required for handguns, gun safety course. NCIS background check. 14-day waiting period. Which seems strict in comparison to "no permit required, no background check, no training needed", but really isn't; it's still very easy for the average person to obtain a permit. (Especially when the mental health test basically means "no prior involuntary commitment or adjudication").

2. Submit a letter or certification attesting that you have completed an approved course in the safety and use of pistols/revolvers. This must be signed by one of the following: an N.R.A. certified pistol/revolver instructor, a DEP certified instructor or a state certified firearms instructor.

3. Submit a complete set of fingerprints with a check or money order for $35.00 payable to DPS.

4. When applicable, criminal and/or mental health records must be submitted (C.G.S. 29-36g)


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Response to cliffordu (Original post)

Sat Dec 15, 2012, 11:53 PM

3. Who's blamed you?

Blaming is saying "Mentally ill people are at fault for this."

I've only seen people saying that the killer likely suffered from some form of mental illness. That isn't blame. It's a statement. It may be factual or may not be.

I've also seen (and agreed with) the argument that people who suffer certain mental illnesses shouldn't own guns for the duration of their mental illness. That is also not blame. It is simply a good idea.

I am mentally ill. I suffer from clinical depression and have for a long time. I am also not a neurotypical. I have Asperger's syndrome, as a cursory read of some of my posts might indicate.

For the former (although not the latter) I don't believe I should be allowed to own a gun. If I'd had a gun last year during the depths of my depression, I may have killed myself. I certainly thought of it often enough. What stopped me from offing myself was the thought of the effect on my children. I can suffer, but they shouldn't have to. So I'm still alive today. But a gun could have sped me on my way before I'd had a chance to think it though.

I don't believe that I, or people like me, should own guns for the duration of their illnesses. That isnt' blame.

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Response to Shivering Jemmy (Reply #3)

Sun Dec 16, 2012, 12:23 AM

6. thank you for your perspective and for your sense of responsibility to others

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Response to Shivering Jemmy (Reply #3)

Sun Dec 16, 2012, 12:50 AM

8. Every. Single. Time.

Every one of these mass killings is attributed to mental illness. it's an excuse, an effort for people to divorce themselves from it, to say "Oh well, that person, he was aberrant, he was an exception, we have nothing in common with him!" it's an excuse a gun-worshipping, violence-loving culture conjures up to cover its own ass.

The vast majority of murderers are completely "with it." and there's no reason to imagine the number of victims changes this basic fact.

it's the culture that creates these events, it's not some brain chemistry problem.

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Response to Scootaloo (Reply #8)

Sun Dec 16, 2012, 01:10 AM

11. I don't think "culture" alone can force someone to slaughter more than two dozen innocents.

There has to be something more going on.

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Response to Arugula Latte (Reply #11)

Sun Dec 16, 2012, 04:05 AM

75. Yeah. Easy access to guns.

And right wing media whipping people into a frenzy.

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Response to Zoeisright (Reply #75)

Sun Dec 16, 2012, 04:24 AM

86. Easy access to guns, a right wing fearfest,

and a culture that promotes violence as an appropriate response to conflict.
The Pearson Correlation chart, found inThe Geography of Gun Deaths by Richard Florida (The Atlantic, January 2013), finds a negative relationship between mental illness and gun deaths suggesting that it is not the mentally ill who commit these crimes.

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Response to Arugula Latte (Reply #11)

Sun Dec 16, 2012, 04:21 AM

82. "force?" no, it is a contributing cause.

what else is numbers. out of 300M people a handful will be homicidal. If they have access to high-capacity firearms, are angry at the world, and want to be on TV, well....

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Response to Deep13 (Reply #82)

Sun Dec 16, 2012, 01:25 PM

105. Right. I was just taking issue with the poster I responded to.

Otherwise everybody immersed in this culture would be violent and acting out on it, but that is not the case.

It takes the "right" (or wrong) combination of factors to trigger such a heinous act in an individual.

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Response to Arugula Latte (Reply #11)

Tue Dec 18, 2012, 05:14 AM

121. So-called normal people

Don't slaughter children. They don't walk into a mall or a movie theater and start shooting.

That's not a cultural issue, it's a mental issue.

The vast majority of people with mental illness aren't a threat to anyone, except perhaps to themselves just as the vast majority of legal firearms owners aren't a threat to anyone who isn't trying to harm them.

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Response to Scootaloo (Reply #8)

Sun Dec 16, 2012, 04:13 AM

78. NO ONE can guarantee they will never

suffer a mental or psychological or emotional crisis. Much less that no one who ever enters their home will. Shit happens. Life happens. The unexpected happens. That's why these instruments of death and destruction must be 'well-regulated' and generally unavailable except under the strictest conditions at all times.

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Response to Scootaloo (Reply #8)

Sun Dec 16, 2012, 09:16 PM

114. It doesn't have to be either/or.

Turns out that when you let people with visual disabilities drive, a lot more accidents happen. Is it their "fault"? Is anybody blaming them? No, their disability isn't their fault. But you can acknowledge the fact that maybe they need a little extra help getting where they need to go, and maybe shouldn't be driving themselves, without turning away from vehicle crash safety or any of the other relevant issues. You're numbers are right, the vast majority of crimes are committed by non mentally ill, with mentally ill more likely to be victims. But at the same time, the VA tech shooter and others clearly were mentally ill. I'm saying the solution to this problem probably isn't just one single thing.

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Response to Shivering Jemmy (Reply #3)

Sun Dec 16, 2012, 03:42 AM

57. Shivering Jemmy, Your comment gave me chills..

I agree with everything that you said.

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Response to Shivering Jemmy (Reply #3)

Sun Dec 16, 2012, 01:17 PM

103. Totally relate and agree

Exactly my situation and my views.

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Response to Shivering Jemmy (Reply #3)

Sun Dec 16, 2012, 01:41 PM

106. +1 nt

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Response to cliffordu (Original post)

Sun Dec 16, 2012, 12:12 AM

4. KnR

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Response to cliffordu (Original post)

Sun Dec 16, 2012, 12:21 AM

5. no one is blaming every single mentally ill person but

We do need more attention placed on mental illness. My husband has battled mental illness so I am not just some person who has never met someone with a mental illness. There have been dozens of accounts right here on this board of people who know mentally ill people who are a danger to themselves or others especially before they receive treatment. We cannot ignore that fact. That does not mean that every single mentally ill person is dangerous and no one is even saying that. There are millions of people with mental illness and many are not dangerous. Many seek and receive treatment and voluntarily take their medications. The whole reason we even bring up mental illness is because there are a lot of people who are not getting the help they need and that is when mental illness can become dangerous. What is wrong with demanding our government address and offer more help for the mentally ill? I see nothing wrong with that.

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Response to liberal_at_heart (Reply #5)

Sun Dec 16, 2012, 01:03 PM

101. Well stated. Thank you for your most thoughtful and logical post.

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Response to cliffordu (Original post)

Sun Dec 16, 2012, 12:43 AM

7. The way America approaches problems is part of the problem.

To target rather than to help.

There is a difference between mental illness and emotionally crippled. All of the threads I've started on this subject refer to what I believe nearly everyone has- emotional traumas that are crippling them in some way. I honestly believe that nearly all of us are messed up, and we have nowhere to go for help. Not that we can afford. And even those who are supposed to be professionals are unqualified but a very few.

Our priorities are not on helping to improve the human condition as much as simply making life more comfortable and convenient. We spent a half trillion per year to aim guns at those who are not willing to give us what we want. Yet millions of people are suffering from emotional problems that go unaided.

I want to make this a better world. I see it as really quite simple. We'd have to start out by changing politics so that in order to even get to the place where you can affect millions of people's lives, you would have to pass an emotional test of some kind. George Bush, Romney, and those like them would fail without any doubt. And we would have leaders like Clinton, Obama, Carter, every time.

Then, we turn our military spending into productive spending. Hell, I wouldn't mind paying taxes if that were the case.

We aren't solving any of our problems. We're just massaging the symptoms.

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Response to Gregorian (Reply #7)

Sun Dec 16, 2012, 01:08 AM

10. Being Mentally ill is having a diagnosed mental illness

Which is generally preceded by trauma of some kind, with a biological vulnerability to developing illness. Being mentally ill does not make one emotionally crippled, particularly since many with diagnoses actively seek treatment.

Depression is the most common mental illness and one of the most pervasive world health problems, according to WHO. 2/3 of those with depression are women. When was the last time you saw a woman shoot up a school or mall?

So unipolar and bipolar depression, PTSD, Borderline Personality Disorder, and various forms of schizophrenia are mental illnesses.

The incidence of violence to others among the mentally ill is very low. A 2003 NIH study showed that the non-chemical substance abusing Mentally ill population had no greater incidence of violence than those without mental illness who likewise didn't abuse substances. They also concluded that violence in the population at large could be reduced by 4.3% if mental illness were eliminated, compared to 34% for substance abusers, and 5% for Those with both mental illness and addiction/alcoholism. I'm guessing that first number is mainly due to suicide.
http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC1525086/

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Response to BainsBane (Reply #10)

Sun Dec 16, 2012, 01:46 AM

17. here's an interesting read on mass murders in Psychology Today

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Response to liberal_at_heart (Reply #17)

Sun Dec 16, 2012, 03:20 AM

44. Thank you so much for referring us to that Psychology Today article!

I don't have a subscription to that mag to date. I have in the past. This article just reminds me that I need to get back into the Psychology Today (PT) habit.

I think PT may have nailed it on this issue of mass murder. Dangling in my mind was illicit drug use, combined with the violent games. But never did I link it to the use or misuse of prescription drugs by those who suffer from serious personality disorders, bipolar/depression disorders, etc.

Another thing I've been thinking about is the effect of the time that we live in and possibly our inability to grow or adjust to a new reality, our easement into a 21st century mentality.

In so many ways, it leads back to our inability as a society to look reality square in the face and deal with our problems. There is probably not many families that DO NOT have someone affected by some sort of malady. We can not ignore their problem. We must love and support them, care for them, keep our eyes on them at all times, be sure that they take their meds on time, never over-medicated or under-medicating. And if the med is having an adverse affect, call the Dr immediately.

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Response to ReRe (Reply #44)

Sun Dec 16, 2012, 03:23 AM

47. you are right on about encouraging them to take their meds

My husband forgot to refill his prescription for a couple of days and had horrible side effects. He doesn't make that mistake anymore.

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Response to liberal_at_heart (Reply #47)

Sun Dec 16, 2012, 03:38 AM

55. Yes, one gets to feeling better and doesn't take the meds anymore...

... and goes right back to feeling like they did before. We have to realize that these individuals in our family cannot live independently, because if they did, they would be a goner. Yeah, it may be a sad reality that we have to depend on meds to keep us well, but its an absolute necessity in most cases. If the meds work to stabilize your fam member, take care of them like a baby. Even if they are 50 yrs old, or 20 yrs old. And love them, love them, love them.

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Response to BainsBane (Reply #10)

Sun Dec 16, 2012, 07:30 AM

91. Sylvia Seegrist - Springfield Mall, PA, 1985

I was at the mall when that was going on. It was terrifying, but thankfully I had arrived just as it was almost all over yet at the time most people didn't know and I happened to be in a part of the mall a good distance away.

I also knew about her. Her mother was friends with the mother of my friend's boyfriend. I met Sylvia's mother several times and all she talked about was what could be done about Sylvia who she KNEW was homicidally mentally ill, but the laws permitted nothing to be done about it though Lord knows that poor woman tried her hardest because Sylvia was an adult. She was also a paranoid schizophrenic that voluntarily stopped taking her meds. Everyone who came across her when she was off her meds knew she was a danger to others yet not a single thing could be done about it. And one day in October of 1985 her illness made her spin completely out of all control, and she killed several people at the Springfield Mall.

It was this very incident that finally prompted PA to revise their mental health laws so that dangerously ill people like her could be forcibly removed from society and given help whether her illness told her she wanted that help or not. Unfortunately, it's common for schizophrenics and paranoid schizophrenics to believe that they can stop taking their meds and be fine with out them. I've got a schizophrenic living right next door who's stopped taking his meds for that same reason... he's the only one that believes he's normal without them when there is no question at all that he isn't normal without them.

Women HAVE committed mass murder, just not nearly as much as men. And maybe it's at least partly because it is usually men that suffer from paranoid schizophrenia. I actually can't think of a single mass murderer that did NOT suffer from a severe mental illness.

About Sylvia Seegrist: http://www.trutv.com/library/crime/notorious_murders/mass/sylvia_seegrist/index.html

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Response to TorchTheWitch (Reply #91)

Sun Dec 16, 2012, 07:55 AM

92. You assume they do

Because the crimes are horrifying, but assumptions are not evidence. Medical studies, as my previous post showed, reveal a high correlation between substance abuse and violent crimes but not between mental illness and violence. You are making the mistake of basing your views on media representations rather than empirical evidence. You tell the story of one mentally ill woman and imagine that tells you what you need to know. The study I linked to showed that schizophrenics actually display lower levels of violence than those with other illnesses, which also surprised me to learn. The highest incidence was among those with major depression, and I am guessing (though the article doesn't specify) most of that was self-Inflicted violence. There was no statistical correlation between delusions and violence.

If the goal is to decrease mass murder and violent crimes more generally, decisions must be made on actual studies, on scientific information rather than stereotypes and prejudice.

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Response to TorchTheWitch (Reply #91)

Sun Dec 16, 2012, 08:20 AM

94. I do wonder

If a study focused exclusively on violence toward others if schizophrenics would not rank more highly. Half of all gun deaths are self-inflicted, and that may account for the comparatively higher rates among major depressives vs. Schizophrenics. I need to examine more of the literature to know whether that is the case.




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Response to BainsBane (Reply #10)

Sun Dec 16, 2012, 12:49 PM

100. I'll say it again- it's about EMOTIONAL WELLNESS.

And don't believe what you read in the so-called professional journals. Depression most often comes from unexpressed emotions. And almost no therapists are willing to break free from their Freud based methods to access why people are depressed, and anorexic, etc. This stuff is also why we're physically ill.

The mental health industry still hasn't caught up with the discoveries of the late 70's. And we're spending half a trillion on counterproductive things instead of caring for our well being.

I know we are all on the same page here on this forum. We're trying to make this a better world. It's not that difficult, in theory. The major problem is authoritarian behavior, in a nutshell.

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Response to Gregorian (Reply #100)

Sun Dec 16, 2012, 02:03 PM

112. I provided a link

Last edited Sun Dec 16, 2012, 03:16 PM - Edit history (1)

For you to read yourself.

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Response to Gregorian (Reply #100)

Sun Dec 16, 2012, 02:06 PM

113. Interesting that your account of the causes of depression

Is entirely freudian and shows no knowledge of any research since the 1970s. I guess that's what they call projection.

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Response to cliffordu (Original post)

Sun Dec 16, 2012, 01:06 AM

9. I fully agree with you

Metal illness is ignored until people want to use it as an explanation or accusation. Events this horrible defy any simple explanation or remedy.

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Response to loyalsister (Reply #9)

Sun Dec 16, 2012, 01:27 AM

13. it's not ignored by those of us who know someone with a mental illness and who want

more help for those who suffer from it.

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Response to liberal_at_heart (Reply #13)

Sun Dec 16, 2012, 01:30 AM

15. I know there are individuals who care

But as a culture it is not a priority to eliminate the stigma and not use it as a stand alone explanation for whatever is not easy to understand.

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Response to cliffordu (Original post)

Sun Dec 16, 2012, 01:25 AM

12. I do not blame you, but if ruled the world I would not let you have a gun.

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Response to KILL THE WISE ONE (Reply #12)

Sun Dec 16, 2012, 01:56 AM

19. Why?

Because you feel it is so? You don't know what you're talking about. There are two studies cited in this thread that show that violence is no more prevalent among the mentally ill than the general population, If you drink, you're far more likely to commit a violent crime than I am. If you are male, you are far more likely to inflict violence then I am. You are relying on your ignorance to scapegoat, when you obviously do not know what you're talking about.

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Response to cliffordu (Original post)

Sun Dec 16, 2012, 01:29 AM

14. No offense but you don't speak for every, your words, mentally ill person

Any more than I speak for every man or every American, or whatever. Mental health services would have helped the shooter. That is not to say that all people who seek mental health services could be a shooter. There is vast difference between the two statements that you seem to be missing.

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Response to Fearless (Reply #14)

Sun Dec 16, 2012, 02:02 AM

21. There is No correlation between mental illness and violence

There is, however, a strong correlation between substance abuse and violence. Gender is also a strong factor. A non mentally ill man is far More likely to commit a crime than a mentally Ill woman.

Has information about the shooter's mental health been released? I find it amazing so many are willing to attribute his actions to mental illness, based on no information. We know He killed 28 people with guns. We don't know anything about his health history.

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Response to BainsBane (Reply #21)

Sun Dec 16, 2012, 02:15 AM

24. Correlation does not equal causation

Any mental health professional would consider a mass-murderer to be mentally ill.

No one anywhere would suggest that a person who shoots 28 odd people is mentally stable. I'm sorry. Again this does not mean that all or even most or even many mentally ill people are in fact prone to violence, just that SOME are. Some of them are men. And some of them are women. Some of them have a history of alcoholism or drug abuse. Some of them don't. Some people think about shooting people but don't. Some people think about it and do. The fact remains that a strong network of mental health services would help find those who feel like shooting 28 odd people the help they need before the action takes place.

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Response to Fearless (Reply #24)

Sun Dec 16, 2012, 02:35 AM

30. Some are men and some are women?

Last edited Sun Dec 16, 2012, 04:01 AM - Edit history (1)

One has been a woman. The rest have been men. We assume mental illness because such events are too horrifying to imagine. Absent additional evidence, we do not know. Were the 9/11 high jackers mentally ill? Are the guys who blow up abortion clinics? Tim McVeigh? Ted Bundy? They inflict terror that we find impossible to conceive, but that does not mean targeting the mentally ill does anything about mass murders. Studies exist that show correlations far more precise than what you assume to be the case. If you're interested in actual solutions, assuming doesn't cut it.

See http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC1525086/

http://www.psychologytoday.com/blog/reading-between-the-headlines/201207/mass-murders-are-the-rise

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Response to BainsBane (Reply #30)

Sun Dec 16, 2012, 03:45 AM

60. you do know that most mental illness is not diagnosed

right?

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Response to Skittles (Reply #60)

Sun Dec 16, 2012, 03:48 AM

64. Your point?

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Response to BainsBane (Reply #64)

Sun Dec 16, 2012, 03:54 AM

68. forget it

not EVEN worth it

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Response to Skittles (Reply #68)

Sun Dec 16, 2012, 03:56 AM

70. Ok

I don't recall forcing you to enter this discussion. Nor did I read anywhere in the TOS that mind reading was a requirement for membership.

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Response to BainsBane (Reply #21)

Sun Dec 16, 2012, 02:23 AM

27. Not strictly true.

But not in the way you meant it. The mentally ill are the most likely group to be victimized.

So there is a correlation, but mostly a one way street in the OTHER direction. (Toward them)

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Response to AtheistCrusader (Reply #27)

Sun Dec 16, 2012, 02:25 AM

28. Yes, thank you

I meant perpetrators.

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Response to BainsBane (Reply #28)

Sun Dec 16, 2012, 02:36 AM

31. Totally agree.

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Response to cliffordu (Original post)

Sun Dec 16, 2012, 01:33 AM

16. Having a mental illness

does not necessarily mean the person cannot be trusted with a gun. Now mind you, I am only speaking from personal experience: my late husband (passed 18 months ago), suffered from paranoid schizophenia. We were together for 27 years so I went through onset to full blown episodes with him. We lived on a 40 acre farm he was born and raised on, my husband grew up hunting and loved it. We always ate what was killed. When he first starting having outbursts, I purchased a huge floor safe and put all of our firearms in it and only I had/have the combination. Now believe it or not, to me, securing the guns did not make me feel any better. Husband was 6'7" and 235 as opposed to my 5'4" and 120lbs. His size and reach and strength alone were enough to wreak major mayhem if things went that way. As time went on, with therapy and medicine regimen, we managed to get the illness under control. After much discussion with his Dr and therapist, he was allowed to use the shotgun to hunt on the farm. I still kept it in the safe and he only got it when he was leaving to walk to his stand, and as soon as he came back, it went back in the safe. This may sound as if I was treating him like a child but I feel like it gave him something back that he enjoyed, something from before his mind betrayed him (that's how he described it), it reminded him of his youth, etc. He put a lot of meat on our table and I could see the pride in being able to provide.
Not all mentally ill people should be allowed access to guns at any time but, then again, not all sane people should be allowed access to guns at any time either.

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Response to zabet (Reply #16)

Sun Dec 16, 2012, 01:59 AM

20. "how his mind betrayed him"

My husband has described it that way before too.

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Response to liberal_at_heart (Reply #20)

Sun Dec 16, 2012, 04:17 AM

80. That was part of what

made it so heart-breaking. He was fully aware of his mind not 'behaving properly'.

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Response to zabet (Reply #16)

Sun Dec 16, 2012, 03:51 AM

66. it's so scary how the current state of mental-health care leaves people in your situation...

... in the position of having to make, literally, life-and-death decisions about how best to care for the health and happiness of their loved one.

You had a doctor and a therapist on your team, and yet you were the one who would have had to live (I honestly didn't mean that to be, like, a pun) with the results of giving him access to a gun. What a terrible burden to place on an untrained person.

It was really kind and loving of you to allow him to hunt and to provide in this situation--I bet it made a big difference to his well-being. I have to admit that I wouldn't have had that courage, but it obviously meant a lot to your husband. He sounds very self-aware, too.

I think you're right about access to guns--plenty of people who are just pissed but not mentally ill shouldn't be allowed access to guns. There's mental illness and there's just being an asshole. Given that the vast majority of the mentally ill aren't violent, I'd rather restrict the assholes' gun access, if that were possible.

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Response to renate (Reply #66)

Sun Dec 16, 2012, 04:00 AM

72. Thank you

for your understanding.

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Response to renate (Reply #66)

Sun Dec 16, 2012, 04:02 AM

73. wouldn't it be nice if it were illegal to operate a gun while intoxicated?

I've known plenty of drunk idiots who think it's fun to shoot off a gun while drinking.

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Response to liberal_at_heart (Reply #73)

Sun Dec 16, 2012, 04:21 AM

83. Yes!

Believe me, I live in rural Podunkville in the heart of the Bible belt. We have plenty of those 'good ol boys' who like to do just that---get shit-face drunk and go to waving guns around and shooting in the air.

Edit to add: Maybe there needs to be an Idiot Control law.

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Response to cliffordu (Original post)

Sun Dec 16, 2012, 01:50 AM

18. the little bit of news i've watched -- they absolutely haven't even said "mental illness"

they did a segment about "the mind of the killer" and two "experts" were interviewed and the only thing i heard about "mental" anything was when the *reporter* said this guy had *mental issues* --that's it.

and i wondered what the hell she was referring to/talking about--first i'd heard of it. and whatever "it" is, i haven't heard anyone come right out and say it. that's all that was said about it during that interview.

i haven't heard anything else.

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Response to orleans (Reply #18)

Sun Dec 16, 2012, 02:04 AM

22. Your post is thought provoking

I never thought quite along those lines.
It's too close. I am beginning to realize
we are all mentally ill.

On Edit

OOPS! I meant to reply to the original post.

but this reply can almost fit both posts.

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Response to orleans (Reply #18)

Sun Dec 16, 2012, 04:06 AM

76. This board has been full of "guns aren't the problem, untreated mental illness is."

You honestly haven't seen that?

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Response to Zoeisright (Reply #76)

Tue Dec 18, 2012, 03:38 AM

117. no--i honestly haven't seen that. but i haven't been on here that much. n/t

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Response to cliffordu (Original post)

Sun Dec 16, 2012, 02:12 AM

23. Shooting up a bunch of people indicates mental illness

That's not to say all mentally ill people will shoot a bunch of people - that is a very specific mental illness. Actually, I think the state of this country causes some mental illnesses that lead to violence. Actually, I think it's a natural effect.

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Response to cliffordu (Original post)

Sun Dec 16, 2012, 02:19 AM

25. I don't blame mental illness,

but a person who commits mass murder is mentally ill.

Being mentally ill does not mean that person is going to kill people, but murdering innocent people is done by the insane.

Hey Cliff... we are you... you are us. We are all in it together, and sometimes it's rough figuring out what to do when the insane happens.

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Response to cliffordu (Original post)

Sun Dec 16, 2012, 02:21 AM

26. people who are mentally ill should not have guns

That's not discrimination, its common sense. Just the same way people with severe visual impairments aren't granted drivers licenses. its not a matter of blame or stigmatization merely recognizing reality.

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Response to Dustin DeWinde (Reply #26)

Sun Dec 16, 2012, 02:29 AM

29. that's interesting you would make that analogy

My husband is legally blind and has had a mental illness. You are correct that not allowing blind people to drive is not discrimination.

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Response to Dustin DeWinde (Reply #26)

Sun Dec 16, 2012, 02:38 AM

32. Your "common sense" is prejudice

Nothing more. If you want to restrict gun ownership by keeping them away from those most likely to inflict harm on others, keep them out of the hands of men up to about age 37 and away from anyone who abuses chemical substances. There is no greater propensity for the mentally I'll to commit violent acts than the rest of the population.
http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC1525086/

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Response to liberal_at_heart (Reply #34)

Sun Dec 16, 2012, 03:01 AM

35. Psych Today sites a study

In the NIH piece, or World Psychiatry, which is more comprehensive. They don't contradict each other. One is a medical journal and the other a popular magazine.

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Response to BainsBane (Reply #35)

Sun Dec 16, 2012, 03:06 AM

36. in the psychology today article it says

that being mentally ill in and of itself is not a predictor. But mentally ill people who do not take their medicine and mentally ill people who take drugs and alcohol are at significantly increased risk for violent behavior. As many of us have stated not all mentally ill people will commit mass murders, but those who are untreated and those who use drugs and alcohol are at risk. That is why we are advocating for them. They need help and there is not enough help available. The NIH article you cite doesn't even address mass murders.

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Response to liberal_at_heart (Reply #36)

Sun Dec 16, 2012, 03:12 AM

38. The key issue is alcohol and drugs

not mental illness. Read the World Psychiatry article. Anyone who abuses chemical substances is at a far greater risk of committing violence, not just the mentally ill.

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Response to BainsBane (Reply #38)

Sun Dec 16, 2012, 03:15 AM

40. in mass murder key contributors are drugs, alcohol, and mental illness

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Response to liberal_at_heart (Reply #40)

Sun Dec 16, 2012, 03:23 AM

48. Evidence?

You make a lot of assumptions with no proof. But who needs proof when you an rely on prejudice. What about guns? They naturally have nothing to do with tens of thousands of gun related deaths in the US every year.

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Response to BainsBane (Reply #48)

Sun Dec 16, 2012, 03:24 AM

49. i provided evidence. You are so not worth it. going on ignore.

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Response to liberal_at_heart (Reply #49)

Sun Dec 16, 2012, 03:30 AM

51. How weak minded

You ignored the evidence and you put me on ignore because you are unable and unwilling to examine facts. That is childish. You obviously couldn't be bothered to read the World Psychiatry study. You don't care what the actual facts are. But run away. That makes I easier for you to justify your unfounded prejudice.

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Response to liberal_at_heart (Reply #49)

Sun Dec 16, 2012, 03:36 AM

54. I cited the same study in psych today

Only I cited the precise numbers, which you refused to look at for some reason.

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Response to liberal_at_heart (Reply #49)

Sun Dec 16, 2012, 04:22 AM

84. YOU KNOW IT, LIBERAL

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Response to BainsBane (Reply #38)

Sun Dec 16, 2012, 04:06 AM

77. No, the key issue is unfettered access to assault weapons.

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Response to Zoeisright (Reply #77)

Sun Dec 16, 2012, 04:16 AM

79. Well yes

I can't disagree with that. The comment to which you responded was about a particular study of mental illness and violence. The issue IS guns. Amy Goodman talked about a man who took a knife into a Chinese school and injured 23 children. They all survived. If the man had been wielding a bushmaster rifle, the survival rate would have been far lower.

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Response to cliffordu (Original post)

Sun Dec 16, 2012, 02:42 AM

33. The blaming of law abiding gun owners

 

For the actions of those with clear mental health issues is getting old. How about we blame the individual that committed the atrocity and call it a day.

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Response to letemrot (Reply #33)

Sun Dec 16, 2012, 03:09 AM

37. Prove it

They aren't law abiding once they use those weapons on other people. You don't know if this boy was mentally ill. We do know he killed 20 children and 8 adults with guns. There s no greater propensity for violence by those who are mentally ill. The same cannot be said for gun owners. I do not like being scapegoated by gun lovers so the can continue to promote policies that lead to mass murder.

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Response to BainsBane (Reply #37)

Sun Dec 16, 2012, 03:14 AM

39. Prove that I haven't committed a murder?

 

Well. All I can tell you is that I have not committed a murder; as well as about 99% of gun owners. But you don't delineate the individuals who committed the crime vs gun owners and 'their gun problem' in case you didn't see it.. I said 'blame the individuals that committed the atrocity.'

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Response to letemrot (Reply #39)

Sun Dec 16, 2012, 03:17 AM

42. Prove that mental illness is the cause of mass murder

Last edited Sun Dec 16, 2012, 03:59 AM - Edit history (1)

You cannot because there is no correlation. I seriously doubt your 99% figure. That would make for a much lower homicide rate than we have in this country.

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Response to BainsBane (Reply #42)

Sun Dec 16, 2012, 03:21 AM

45. Well.. Ill go out on a limb

 

And state this individual suffered from mental illness; and this mental illness was major contributing factor to this atrocity. Again.. Blame the individual; which is what I said. You want to ascribe blame to gun owners or 'gun lovers' as you call them.

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Response to letemrot (Reply #45)

Sun Dec 16, 2012, 03:35 AM

52. You are assuming

We don't know what his condition was. He may have been mentally ill, or he may not have been. But mental illness is not a statistically significant factor in violent crimes. I don't blame gun owners, other than their insistence on promoting policies that result in easy access to guns.

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Response to BainsBane (Reply #52)

Sun Dec 16, 2012, 03:39 AM

56. Ok so you're going to blame me as a 'gun lover'

 

And deny mental illness and not lay blame on the individual that committed the atrocity. Got it. Let me know how that works out for you.

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Response to letemrot (Reply #56)

Sun Dec 16, 2012, 03:45 AM

61. No

I said I do not blame you. The individual alone is responsible for this act. BUt if we want to prevent these events from happening so often, we need to examine the proliferation of guns.

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Response to BainsBane (Reply #61)

Sun Dec 16, 2012, 04:00 AM

71. Fair enough.

 

Since you phrased it that way.. An op phrased the same way would probably garner more and better quality discussion on this issue. Or.. In the current DU atmosphere.. Just increase the animosity. Thank you for clarifying what I probably should have picked up earlier. Have a good night.

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Response to letemrot (Reply #71)

Sun Dec 16, 2012, 04:02 AM

74. You too

Take care.

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Response to BainsBane (Reply #52)

Sun Dec 16, 2012, 08:19 AM

93. your talking about all violent crimes vs. specificly mass murder

And there as the article stated you would be correct. However, I think you and the other poster are talking past each other because you are talking about all gun related incidents while they are talking specifically about mass murder gun related incidents. The article DID specify that when it came to incidents of mass murder mental illness was a large contributing factor that is made significantly worse if the mentally ill person abused drugs or alcohol as well.

Yes, most murderers are not mentally ill and are more likely to be abusers of drugs and alcohol, but most mass murders are likely to be mentally ill and more likely to commit a mass murder if they are mentally ill and also abuse drugs or alcohol.


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Response to TorchTheWitch (Reply #93)

Sun Dec 16, 2012, 08:29 AM

95. I see your point.

And I think you're right about the other poster and I misunderstanding each other.

I do think it important to wait for more information before concluding this shooter was mentally ill. We assume that to be the case because we can't comprehend the horror of such an act. But people do diabolical things. Like the OP, that kind of behavior bears no resemblance to my own experience with mental illness, nor that of the many people I have met through years of group therapy.

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Response to BainsBane (Reply #37)

Sun Dec 16, 2012, 03:16 AM

41. Let me add

 

I don't like being scapegoated to promote an anti gun agenda. Funny how that works. Luckily.. We are in the United States where you can vocally oppose gun ownership; and gun owners.. And thanks to the 2nd Amendment I can own guns.

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Response to letemrot (Reply #41)

Sun Dec 16, 2012, 03:18 AM

43. And you have the added pleasure

Of promoting discrimination against a group of law abiding citizens, the mentally I'll, to make yourself feel better.

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Response to BainsBane (Reply #43)

Sun Dec 16, 2012, 03:22 AM

46. Blaming the individual that commits the act

 

Is discrimination? That's a stretch isn't it?

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Response to BainsBane (Reply #37)

Sun Dec 16, 2012, 03:30 AM

50. And of course you are right...

 

Once the gun owners commit a crime; they are not law abiding. So blame that individual not all the gun owners who have not committed mass murder. Or a single murder.. Or pretty much any crime.

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Response to letemrot (Reply #50)

Sun Dec 16, 2012, 03:43 AM

58. There are a few issues

Blame or responsibility clearly lies with this shooter and him alone. But people want to know what to do to prevent such frequent events from occurring. Doing something about gun proliferation has to be part of that solution. I'm all for better access to mental health treatment, but further adding to the stigma on mental illness by assuming a societal correlation between mental illness and violent crime that does not exist is counterproductive.

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Response to BainsBane (Reply #58)

Sun Dec 16, 2012, 03:45 AM

59. I never said any such thing.

 

But you blamed 'gun lovers' who is painting with the broad brush?

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Response to letemrot (Reply #59)

Sun Dec 16, 2012, 03:47 AM

63. Not for this crime

No, but I do blame the NRA and the rest of the gun lobby for resisting all efforts to help curb gun proliferation.

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Response to letemrot (Reply #33)

Sun Dec 16, 2012, 03:45 AM

62. CALL IT A DAY???

omg

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Response to Skittles (Reply #62)

Sun Dec 16, 2012, 03:50 AM

65. Yes. As in stop pointing fingers

 

Blame the individual that committed the crime. That's it's. It's a common phrase and the meaning is clear. Place blame where it belongs; on the individual that committed the crime.

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Response to letemrot (Reply #65)

Sun Dec 16, 2012, 03:51 AM

67. sorry your widdle feelings got hurt

NOT

*done here*

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Response to Skittles (Reply #67)

Sun Dec 16, 2012, 03:55 AM

69. You're the one with the puke smiley.

 

It would appear it was "your widdle feelings" that got hurt.
You have a great night.

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Response to cliffordu (Original post)

Sun Dec 16, 2012, 03:36 AM

53. No need to argue semantics, minutia- reframe the issue & make guns part of the war on terror

 

and let's quickly deal with it.

the minutia, specics are meaningless, and banning guns from this person or that person leaves someone with a gun in the street, which on a given day said gun could be used.

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Response to cliffordu (Original post)

Sun Dec 16, 2012, 04:19 AM

81. agreed

and even if the shooter--whose name I will not repeat--was mentally ill, he was not insane. he knew what he was doing.

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Response to cliffordu (Original post)

Sun Dec 16, 2012, 04:36 AM

87. For me, the issue to look at is immaturity



The same reason young people drive too fast and engage in other risky behaviors.

A momentary bad moment can lead to complete tragedy.

No, this kid was not normal, but then his community appeared to view him as a freak, and that can isolate a young person to a degree that is excruciating.

It would help a lot of kids if schools and communities would stop labeling kids and start trying to be more inclusive, if school systems would devise programs to help the more shy, bright, socially awkward kids feel a sense of belonging. I am not blaming this school or this community, because I do not know that they DIDN'T do these things- it's just something I have been thinking after reading comments from people who knew the young man.

Maybe he would have done the same thing even if others had reached out to befriend him, but maybe a few friends might have been available as a way to vent or to warn others and he wouldn't have taken these dire and tragic measures. Our society can be so brutal to anyone who is different, and that is OUR mental illness.

None of us knows the details; we don't have any diagnosis; we have no clue what went on in the home.

Speculating about it is one thing; offering cocksure posts about this kids "mental illness" is just irresponsible and an easy way to sum up a very complicated problem our nation is facing.

My rambling thoughts as thunder booms outside.






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Response to cliffordu (Original post)

Sun Dec 16, 2012, 05:03 AM

88. A child lies with 11 bullets in them, that's mental

illness by the shooter, IMHO. The second part of the equation, which cannot be separated from the first, is gun legislation. Both must be dealt with together.

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Response to arthritisR_US (Reply #88)

Sun Dec 16, 2012, 12:33 PM

99. So every person that kills someone is "mentally ill?"



No one is motivated by rage, passion, vengeance, money?

I can't buy that, sorry,

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Response to Tsiyu (Reply #99)

Sun Dec 16, 2012, 01:23 PM

104. Lousy job of extrapolating

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Response to arthritisR_US (Reply #104)

Tue Dec 18, 2012, 04:06 AM

118. Your are conflating hideous crimes with mental illness.

The same percentage of so-called normal people commit hideous crimes. This one MAY have been committed by someone with mental illness.

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Response to Cetacea (Reply #118)

Tue Dec 18, 2012, 11:24 AM

124. You're doing it again. I did not say all hideous

crimes, I said this one. Women and children unarmed and no threat to anyone not on the throws of a psychotic break, so it's not a leap to propose that he was mentally unstable FFS.

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Response to cliffordu (Original post)

Sun Dec 16, 2012, 06:14 AM

89. I'm sorry if my posts could be construed that way

I do feel that severe mental illness is something that needs to be treated, so people won't be pushed over the edge to commit such crimes. There's almost always some point at which someone can be rescued before it's too late.

But the vast majority of people who are mentally ill pose no threat to anybody. I just feel that mental illness, like any other ailment, needs treatment...yet so many people can't afford it. It breaks my heart when I read forums, and see people who are suicidal and asking what to do about it because they can't afford a doctor.

When I talk about mental illness, I do so from a place of compassion, not placing blame. I blame lack of treatment, not the patient. I'm sorry if I didn't express myself fully enough.

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Response to lbrtbell (Reply #89)

Tue Dec 18, 2012, 04:08 AM

119. Normal people aren't pushed over the edge?

The numbers are the same for people without mental illness.

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Response to cliffordu (Original post)

Sun Dec 16, 2012, 06:23 AM

90. Hell yeah

The truth hurts.

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Response to cliffordu (Original post)

Sun Dec 16, 2012, 10:20 AM

98. Most people have a limited or no understanding of mental illness.

I am sorry that you feel attacked and blamed.

Your point that mentally ill folk are ignored (generally) until a tragedy occurs is spot on.

I am sorry.

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Response to etherealtruth (Reply #98)

Sun Dec 16, 2012, 01:48 PM

109. The really sad part is that they are ignored even after a tragedy occurs. nt

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Response to Live and Learn (Reply #109)

Sun Dec 16, 2012, 01:49 PM

111. It is abominable

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Response to cliffordu (Original post)

Sun Dec 16, 2012, 01:13 PM

102. agree....

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Response to cliffordu (Original post)

Sun Dec 16, 2012, 01:46 PM

107. I'm VERY concerned about SSRI drugs and suicide/murder ideations.

http://www.baumhedlundlaw.com/media/ssri/Paxil_murder.htm
For the first time, a jury found a pharmaceutical firm liable for deaths caused by a patient taking an antidepressant. A federal jury in Cheyenne, Wyo., ordered SmithKline Beecham (now GlaxoSmithKline) to pay $6.4 million to relatives of Donald Schell.

Schell, 60, had been taking Paxil for just 48 hours when he shot and killed his wife, his daughter, his granddaughter and himself.

The June 7 verdict may alter the landscape in a mass tort that had struggled to gain traction.
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

http://www.lawyersandsettlements.com/features/drugs-medical/ssri-suicide-akathisia.html?utm_expid=3607522-0&utm_referrer=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.google.com%2Furl%3Fsa%3Dt%26rct%3Dj%26q%3Dssri%2520drugs%2520murder%2520suicide%26source%3Dweb%26cd%3D10%26ved%3D0CGQQFjAJ%26url%3Dhttp%253A%252F%252Fwww.lawyersandsettlements.com%252Ffeatures%252Fdrugs-medical%252Fssri-suicide-akathisia.html%26ei%3DHBbOUM2aJ8rB0AHTnYDwAg%26usg%3DAFQjCNHn-MXD_IJLsq0qbIA-rP7E4gnt8w
In a paper entitled, "Suicides and Homicides in Patients Taking Paxil, Prozac, and Zoloft: Why They Keep Happening - And Why They Will Continue," Dr Jay Cohen points out that, as soon SSRI's arrived on the market in the late 1980s, reports of sudden, unexpected suicides and homicides by patients taking the drugs began to come in.

The DSM-IV acknowledges the association of akathisia with suicidality and states: "Akathisia may be associated with dysphoria, irritability, aggression, or suicide attempts."


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Response to cliffordu (Original post)

Sun Dec 16, 2012, 01:47 PM

108. Not blame at all. In fact, we want better mental health care

and easy access to it. For those that are able to get proper diagnosis and treatment that works, I am very happy. The problem is that many are not so fortunate.

There still are no answers for many mental health issues, many of the treatments are inadequate and access to treatment is limited. We need to fund research and provide easy access to all health care including mental health care.

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Response to cliffordu (Original post)

Sun Dec 16, 2012, 01:49 PM

110. It is a RWing talking point that some here SHOULD know

better than to bandy about...but they are embolden by the fact that so far it is not a ppr'd kind of offense. I find the very notion to be offensive, but like I said the RWingers are going nutz after losing the last election. I hope it means they finally slip up and get banned out of frustration.

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Response to cliffordu (Original post)

Sun Dec 16, 2012, 09:29 PM

115. .



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Response to cliffordu (Original post)

Sun Dec 16, 2012, 09:31 PM

116. K&R. Absolutely agree with you.

The problem is guns.

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Response to cliffordu (Original post)

Tue Dec 18, 2012, 04:39 AM

120. Adam Lanza had access to the best mental health treatment that money could buy...

...it's tragic that instead he appears to have been taken to shooting ranges by his mother.

Who rationally keeps an armory in a home with a mentally ill young adult?

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Response to cliffordu (Original post)

Tue Dec 18, 2012, 05:17 AM

122. Well Said.

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Response to cliffordu (Original post)

Tue Dec 18, 2012, 06:42 AM

123. I really don't like the recent attempt to link Asperger's with violence.

That is NOT needed, as 1) Asperger's is about the least understood (IMO) of all the forms of autism; spectrum, and 2) kids with this are no more prone to violence than anyone else in the population.

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