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Sat Dec 15, 2012, 11:28 PM

DON'T PRAY!

.......let's try something different; every time an atrocity happens we're asked to keep the victims in our prayers, why exactly? Prayer doesn't seem to have any effect. Invariably the next mass killing takes place and we're asked to do the same thing again.

The sick individual who mowed down these innocent women and children needed mental healthcare, not prayers. Imagine if all the money that's wasted on televangelists could be put toward professional help for the emotionally ill. Nightmares of this magnitude would stop almost immediately. I realize it's a pipe dream, but one can always hope.

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Arrow 38 replies Author Time Post
Reply DON'T PRAY! (Original post)
macacawitz Dec 2012 OP
RKP5637 Dec 2012 #1
bongbong Dec 2012 #2
Heather MC Dec 2012 #9
bongbong Dec 2012 #10
Logical Dec 2012 #15
Heather MC Dec 2012 #21
Logical Dec 2012 #24
Heather MC Dec 2012 #20
Volaris Dec 2012 #16
Zoeisright Dec 2012 #32
Heather MC Dec 2012 #33
physioex Dec 2012 #3
we can do it Dec 2012 #4
liberal_at_heart Dec 2012 #5
nadinbrzezinski Dec 2012 #6
SheilaT Dec 2012 #7
Heather MC Dec 2012 #8
MotherPetrie Dec 2012 #11
AlexSatan Dec 2012 #26
Arugula Latte Dec 2012 #12
cordelia Dec 2012 #22
Arugula Latte Dec 2012 #31
backscatter712 Dec 2012 #13
HarveyDarkey Dec 2012 #14
democrattotheend Dec 2012 #17
Jim Lane Dec 2012 #23
democrattotheend Dec 2012 #25
Jim Lane Dec 2012 #36
democrattotheend Dec 2012 #38
defacto7 Dec 2012 #18
liberal_at_heart Dec 2012 #19
defacto7 Dec 2012 #34
rainlillie Dec 2012 #27
Siwsan Dec 2012 #28
cherokeeprogressive Dec 2012 #29
Skidmore Dec 2012 #30
Mr.Bill Dec 2012 #35
upi402 Dec 2012 #37

Response to macacawitz (Original post)

Sat Dec 15, 2012, 11:29 PM

1. Well said!!! n/t

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Response to macacawitz (Original post)

Sat Dec 15, 2012, 11:30 PM

2. There is one thing to do right now

 

Get on the phone and start the movement to tighter gun control & new laws that aren't dictated by scared cowards (AKA, the NRA)

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Response to bongbong (Reply #2)

Sun Dec 16, 2012, 12:02 AM

9. Gun control would not have stopped this

he got the weapons from his mother. she may have obtained them through legal means. What gun law would stop a kid from taking guns from their parents?

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Response to Heather MC (Reply #9)

Sun Dec 16, 2012, 12:10 AM

10. BS

 

> Gun control would not have stopped this

Total BS. If the mother had to register the guns, and was required to keep them in a safe, he wouldn't have gotten a hold of them. NRA Talking Point-spouting, Delicate Flower cowards, disgust me.

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Response to bongbong (Reply #10)

Sun Dec 16, 2012, 01:13 AM

15. Bullshit.....

Registering would have done nothing! And ADULTS in the household could open the fucking safe. The shooter was 20 years old. Not 12 or 15 or 17!

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Response to Logical (Reply #15)

Sun Dec 16, 2012, 09:06 AM

21. Thank you that was my point. I am not NRA!

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Response to Heather MC (Reply #21)

Sun Dec 16, 2012, 11:27 AM

24. Very few on the DU support the NRA. This place is just crazy at this point!

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Response to bongbong (Reply #10)

Sun Dec 16, 2012, 09:05 AM

20. Point 1 I have nothing to do with the Fucking NRA

Point 2 i don't own a gun or want one. nor do i allow my children to play with toy guns

Point 3 The shooters mother use to take her son to the gun range she TAUGHT HIM HOW TO SHOOT!!! Which is why there was only 1 wounded. The shooter was taught how to shoot to kill. What makes you think that even if his mother had the guns locked away she would not have given her son the combination Or he would not have known where the keys were to the safe?

a gun law would not have protected us from her stupidity. that is what I meant by a gun laws would not have help in this case

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Response to Heather MC (Reply #9)

Sun Dec 16, 2012, 01:41 AM

16. Nothing.

but one that requires positive Palmprint ID on the grip before the firing pin will move would prevent that taken firearm from being used to kill children...

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Response to Heather MC (Reply #9)

Sun Dec 16, 2012, 01:34 PM

32. HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAAHAHAHAHAAH!!!

You win the prize for the stupidest post of the day.

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Response to Zoeisright (Reply #32)

Sun Dec 16, 2012, 03:09 PM

33. Fuck off or answer the question, What

Gun law can be written that would have prevented Adam from taking his Mother's guns using them to shoot her ib the face and then killing 20 children. He didn't have to have a background check, or a waiting period. All he needed was access to his mothers weapons.


What law can prevent that? And you can't prosecute his mother she currenly has a bullet in her head.

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Response to macacawitz (Original post)

Sat Dec 15, 2012, 11:33 PM

3. I am an atheist, and I don't pray....

I see this more from a social policy perspective like providing mental health services and regulating the purchase of guns. That is not say I am not saddened by the events.

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Response to macacawitz (Original post)

Sat Dec 15, 2012, 11:35 PM

4. Don't pay - DO!

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Response to macacawitz (Original post)

Sat Dec 15, 2012, 11:37 PM

5. for most praying is just for comfort

Most people know that for any action to take place they must take action. It's usually only the fundamentalists who actually expect God to somehow intervene in their lives.

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Response to macacawitz (Original post)

Sat Dec 15, 2012, 11:38 PM

6. While I agree with you

I lost god, I know exactly where...I was at a vigil tonight. There was prayer...it's a church...but plenty of determination to actually take action as well.

I know where you are coming from, but something tells me, the anger is there too.

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Response to macacawitz (Original post)

Sat Dec 15, 2012, 11:43 PM

7. As a nonbeliever in the first place,

I am always offended by the call to pray for something. Excuse me, but science and rational thinking and understanding how the world actually works are always more effective than "prayer."

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Response to macacawitz (Original post)

Sat Dec 15, 2012, 11:58 PM

8. His family was wealthy he could afford all the mental healthcare he needed

The problem was his gun toting doomsday prepping mother who may have convienced him society was coming to an end. all the medical intervention in the world could not save him from that nut.

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Response to macacawitz (Original post)

Sun Dec 16, 2012, 12:52 AM

11. Thank you! Prayers and candlelight vigils don't do a fucking thing!

 

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Response to MotherPetrie (Reply #11)

Sun Dec 16, 2012, 12:47 PM

26. Nor do funerals--we should abolish those as well, right? NT

 

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Response to macacawitz (Original post)

Sun Dec 16, 2012, 12:59 AM

12. It sickens me when people say things like "I pray God takes these children into His arms"

What the f@#k?! Where was their sick, twisted, murderous deity when these babies were being mowed down?!

How anyone could "believe" and worship this odious being is beyond me. I'm glad it doesn't actually exist.

And I agree -- take action, don't waste time in worthless talk to an imaginary figment.

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Response to Arugula Latte (Reply #12)

Sun Dec 16, 2012, 09:28 AM

22. So don't pray. Simple.

Instead, you "take action" by coming to a message board to deride and belittle people who do find comfort in prayer.

Atheist "tolerance" at its finest!

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Response to cordelia (Reply #22)

Sun Dec 16, 2012, 01:34 PM

31. I've also been signing petitions and writing letters.

I will donate to gun control groups after I do a little research.

It's not much, and I don't have many illusions that it will do much, but it's all I can do.

I'm just tired of this thinking that "god" always does good things and never takes gets any blame. Do people who believe in an monotheism and an omnipotent god completely lack critical thinking skills and never make the connection? It's the same mentality that leads people who survived a major catastrophe to say "God was with me and saved me." Well, too bad for those other schmucks who died, including little children, they must not have been worthy of this god's efforts. It's so egotistical. Yeah, I know, I'm pissing into the wind ... just blowing off steam.

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Response to macacawitz (Original post)

Sun Dec 16, 2012, 01:02 AM

13. Amen. Prayer is deluding yourself into thinking you're doing something when you're not.

Yes, I know, we strident atheists are peeing in the religious punchbowl.

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Response to macacawitz (Original post)

Sun Dec 16, 2012, 01:13 AM

14. Prayer

 

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Response to macacawitz (Original post)

Sun Dec 16, 2012, 01:43 AM

17. I think that's kind of a personal decision

And not something you should not be telling people to do or not to do. I fully respect people's right not to pray or not to believe (two of my best friends are atheists), but I am sometimes offended by the hostility from some people on here and other liberal sites toward those who do believe.

I agree with you about televangelists, though. They are a racket that needs to be shut down.

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Response to democrattotheend (Reply #17)

Sun Dec 16, 2012, 11:09 AM

23. It's not just the televangelists

There are plenty of religious people who aren't running scams for money but who want to urge me to adopt their beliefs. Do you apply the same standard to them -- that it's my personal decision and no one should be telling me to pray or not pray?

The fact is that people of many different religious beliefs, for millennia, have urged others to accept their beliefs and join their church. Christianity has a long history of missionary work. The most populous Muslim nation in the world is Indonesia, thousands of miles from where Muhammad lived or where Arab armies conquered -- because of missionaries. The post you object to is merely a tiny dot on the total picture of people expressing opinions of matters of religion and urging their readers/listeners to act in accordance. It's hypocritical for religious believers to take umbrage at this practice only when it's employed by atheists (or, for that matter, when it's employed by religions they don't like, such as Muslims who consider Christian missionary work in Muslim countries to be "cultural imperialism").

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Response to Jim Lane (Reply #23)

Sun Dec 16, 2012, 12:44 PM

25. Yes, I apply the same standard to them

As a reform Jew who went to a Jewish high school, I on occasion encountered teachers or parents of classmates who pushed me to be more religious or looked down on my religious beliefs and it bugged the crap out of me. As does being approached in the subway by people trying to get me to "embrace Jesus".

I think everyone should respect each other's beliefs and/or lack thereof - I feel really strongly about that. Nobody should push their religious beliefs or lack of beliefs onto other people. Just as I don't believe religious people have any right to judge atheists/agnostics or tell them that they should pray, I also don't think it's right for atheists to tell other people not to pray or that their prayers are meaningless.

I respect everyone's right to pray or not pray in the manner they wish and I think everyone, religious people and atheists, should do the same.

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Response to democrattotheend (Reply #25)

Sun Dec 16, 2012, 11:42 PM

36. Your approach is too restrictive of religious discussion

You write:

I think everyone should respect each other's beliefs and/or lack thereof - I feel really strongly about that. Nobody should push their religious beliefs or lack of beliefs onto other people.


I agree with the first sentence, about respect. Where we differ is that I don't consider it disrespectful for people to advocate for their own beliefs on matters of religion, any more than it is for them to advocate about politics.

I've gone door-to-door and done phone-banking on behalf of Democratic political candidates. Obviously, if someone says "I know how I'm voting and I don't to hear your socialist rubbish" or "I have company, don't want to talk" or the like, I respect that. By the same token, if someone approaches me in the subway and wants to talk about Jesus, I don't feel disrespected. Of course, that doesn't mean I want to hear about Jesus. If I say politely, "No thanks, not interested," then the person should give up. (They don't always do that. To continue to bug someone is indeed disrespectful, whether it's about religion, politics, or a great new consumer product.)

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Response to Jim Lane (Reply #36)

Sun Dec 16, 2012, 11:47 PM

38. I didn't intend it that way

I am respectful toward Jehovah's witnesses who try to convert me in the subway, as long as they are not too pushy. I learned in con law that proselytizing is a requirement of their religion, so I am inclined to be more sympathetic now that I know that.

I think it's great to discuss religion, but I don't believe in being pushy and trying to convert others to your beliefs. And that includes trying to push people toward atheism or saying "don't pray". And I find it kind of offensive when people say "what's the point of praying? It doesn't do anything." I think that disrespects those who believe in the power of prayer and take comfort in it.

I have gone door to door and pushed politics on people too, but somehow with religion it feels different to me. It's such a personal thing that I don't believe anyone should push it on others.

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Response to macacawitz (Original post)

Sun Dec 16, 2012, 02:45 AM

18. an atheist here...

and in a situation like this, people should do whatever makes them survive. If deluding themselves helps for a while, why not. Hopefully they won't be in complete mourning for the rest of their life and the delusions can turn to reason again. Loss of a child and loss of a spouse is the most difficult trauma one can deal with. Peace in any form is a necessity.

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Response to defacto7 (Reply #18)

Sun Dec 16, 2012, 03:32 AM

19. that is a very compassionate way to look at it

I can only imagine that losing a child would be the most horrible thing a person could ever endure in life.

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Response to liberal_at_heart (Reply #19)

Sun Dec 16, 2012, 10:49 PM

34. after all...

it's about them, not us.

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Response to macacawitz (Original post)

Sun Dec 16, 2012, 12:49 PM

27. "in a situation like this, people should do whatever makes them survive."

Agreed! Thoughts and prayers with the victims and their families. I also hope and pray that we find reasonable, workable solutions to this problem.

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Response to macacawitz (Original post)

Sun Dec 16, 2012, 12:51 PM

28. Like meditation, prayer can be a way of focusing your thoughts and findng your ground, again

If people find comfort in prayer, then it's a good thing. Considering how many people pray for things that never happen, or that theynever get, it would seem people would get discouraged, but they don't.

I remember being told, years ago, that God hears all prayers but doesn't always answer them.

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Response to macacawitz (Original post)

Sun Dec 16, 2012, 12:53 PM

29. You do whatever you want, but please don't force your beliefs on others... n/t

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Response to macacawitz (Original post)

Sun Dec 16, 2012, 12:55 PM

30. Pray if you must but act also.

Act. You can work to ban assault weaponry, reauthorize the violence against women act, and any number of things right now. Get out and act.

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Response to macacawitz (Original post)

Sun Dec 16, 2012, 10:54 PM

35. My signature line.

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Response to macacawitz (Original post)

Sun Dec 16, 2012, 11:45 PM

37. Reagan inc. "freed" the mentally

and made policy to close state run mental facilities.
Now this.

We are so stuck on stupid in
'muhrica.

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