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Sat Dec 15, 2012, 10:12 PM

I have a bunch of guns. Ask me anything.

This is in someways a copycat thread of the following.

http://www.democraticunderground.com/?com=view_post&forum=1002&pid=1995230

I think I have a somewhat different perspective from that poster and I do not mind discussing it.

If you want to use personal insults or whatever, I already know what they are, so save the keyboard strokes.

Background: I have 15 or 16, I don't exactly remember. I only shoot inanimate targets, not animals. It's a hobby. I willingly supported the NRA a long time ago, before I started shooting, actually. In the last ten years I was a member only because it was required for membership at the local rifle range. When I stopped shooting there, I let the membership expire. I never liked how they were against my favorite candidates and was offended that a traitor like Oliver North was a board member. There is no way I would renew now.

FYI, I am grading exams, so if I do not respond right away, just be patient.

194 replies, 9140 views

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Reply I have a bunch of guns. Ask me anything. (Original post)
Deep13 Dec 2012 OP
Skittles Dec 2012 #1
Deep13 Dec 2012 #5
Skittles Dec 2012 #9
Deep13 Dec 2012 #16
Skittles Dec 2012 #20
ManiacJoe Dec 2012 #53
Skittles Dec 2012 #55
Deep13 Dec 2012 #89
Skittles Dec 2012 #173
qkvhj Dec 2012 #126
femmocrat Dec 2012 #2
Floyd_Gondolli Dec 2012 #4
Deep13 Dec 2012 #23
Zoeisright Dec 2012 #181
Deep13 Dec 2012 #21
femmocrat Dec 2012 #27
Deep13 Dec 2012 #91
hrmjustin Dec 2012 #3
Deep13 Dec 2012 #15
hrmjustin Dec 2012 #29
Deep13 Dec 2012 #94
ProgressiveProfessor Dec 2012 #107
Whovian Dec 2012 #6
Deep13 Dec 2012 #24
SidDithers Dec 2012 #7
Skittles Dec 2012 #13
spin Dec 2012 #145
Skittles Dec 2012 #174
spin Dec 2012 #176
Skittles Dec 2012 #177
Bonobo Dec 2012 #17
Deep13 Dec 2012 #25
frank380 Dec 2012 #8
Deep13 Dec 2012 #30
qkvhj Dec 2012 #135
Vox Moi Dec 2012 #10
Deep13 Dec 2012 #32
Vox Moi Dec 2012 #88
Deep13 Dec 2012 #100
Cobalt Violet Dec 2012 #11
Deep13 Dec 2012 #33
rwheeler31 Dec 2012 #12
Deep13 Dec 2012 #62
TexasBushwhacker Dec 2012 #14
Deep13 Dec 2012 #72
Floyd_Gondolli Dec 2012 #18
Skittles Dec 2012 #22
Deep13 Dec 2012 #35
Skittles Dec 2012 #45
Deep13 Dec 2012 #51
Bonobo Dec 2012 #19
Logical Dec 2012 #28
Bonobo Dec 2012 #34
pintobean Dec 2012 #41
Bonobo Dec 2012 #49
pintobean Dec 2012 #61
Bonobo Dec 2012 #63
pintobean Dec 2012 #98
Bonobo Dec 2012 #101
pintobean Dec 2012 #109
Bonobo Dec 2012 #113
pintobean Dec 2012 #133
Bonobo Dec 2012 #151
Budgies Revenge Dec 2012 #142
qkvhj Dec 2012 #148
Logical Dec 2012 #43
Bonobo Dec 2012 #52
Logical Dec 2012 #57
Bonobo Dec 2012 #59
Logical Dec 2012 #65
Bonobo Dec 2012 #69
Logical Dec 2012 #75
Bonobo Dec 2012 #84
OneTenthofOnePercent Dec 2012 #64
Bonobo Dec 2012 #70
OneTenthofOnePercent Dec 2012 #117
Bonobo Dec 2012 #76
ProgressiveProfessor Dec 2012 #114
Logical Dec 2012 #120
Bonobo Dec 2012 #123
qkvhj Dec 2012 #152
Bonobo Dec 2012 #67
Logical Dec 2012 #71
Bonobo Dec 2012 #81
Logical Dec 2012 #85
Bonobo Dec 2012 #93
Logical Dec 2012 #97
Bonobo Dec 2012 #99
Logical Dec 2012 #105
Bonobo Dec 2012 #108
Logical Dec 2012 #115
Bonobo Dec 2012 #121
qkvhj Dec 2012 #155
ProgressiveProfessor Dec 2012 #112
Bonobo Dec 2012 #118
ProgressiveProfessor Dec 2012 #125
Bonobo Dec 2012 #128
ProgressiveProfessor Dec 2012 #137
Bonobo Dec 2012 #139
ProgressiveProfessor Dec 2012 #144
Bonobo Dec 2012 #146
ProgressiveProfessor Dec 2012 #150
sarisataka Dec 2012 #138
Deep13 Dec 2012 #37
Bonobo Dec 2012 #40
Deep13 Dec 2012 #78
slutticus Dec 2012 #74
Bonobo Dec 2012 #95
qkvhj Dec 2012 #141
cynatnite Dec 2012 #26
Skittles Dec 2012 #31
Deep13 Dec 2012 #39
Deep13 Dec 2012 #38
cynatnite Dec 2012 #129
srican69 Dec 2012 #36
Deep13 Dec 2012 #48
RKP5637 Dec 2012 #58
BlueStreak Dec 2012 #42
Deep13 Dec 2012 #50
BlueStreak Dec 2012 #83
Deep13 Dec 2012 #116
qkvhj Dec 2012 #164
BlueStreak Dec 2012 #183
krispos42 Dec 2012 #119
BlueStreak Dec 2012 #182
krispos42 Dec 2012 #187
BlueStreak Dec 2012 #192
krispos42 Dec 2012 #193
BiminiTwisted Dec 2012 #44
Deep13 Dec 2012 #56
uppityperson Dec 2012 #46
Deep13 Dec 2012 #60
Floyd_Gondolli Dec 2012 #92
Deep13 Dec 2012 #124
Herlong Dec 2012 #47
Deep13 Dec 2012 #73
nadinbrzezinski Dec 2012 #54
Deep13 Dec 2012 #77
nadinbrzezinski Dec 2012 #102
Deep13 Dec 2012 #127
nadinbrzezinski Dec 2012 #136
musical_soul Dec 2012 #66
Deep13 Dec 2012 #80
slutticus Dec 2012 #68
Deep13 Dec 2012 #82
slutticus Dec 2012 #90
Deep13 Dec 2012 #111
jorno67 Dec 2012 #79
Deep13 Dec 2012 #86
TRJuan Dec 2012 #87
Deep13 Dec 2012 #104
former-republican Dec 2012 #96
Deep13 Dec 2012 #106
former-republican Dec 2012 #122
Deep13 Dec 2012 #130
former-republican Dec 2012 #140
tandot Dec 2012 #103
Deep13 Dec 2012 #110
Democratopia Dec 2012 #132
tandot Dec 2012 #143
Democratopia Dec 2012 #149
tandot Dec 2012 #160
Democratopia Dec 2012 #185
tandot Dec 2012 #194
Agschmid Dec 2012 #131
Democratopia Dec 2012 #134
cynatnite Dec 2012 #147
Democratopia Dec 2012 #154
cynatnite Dec 2012 #158
Democratopia Dec 2012 #162
spin Dec 2012 #179
spin Dec 2012 #153
former-republican Dec 2012 #156
spin Dec 2012 #165
cynatnite Dec 2012 #159
spin Dec 2012 #166
cynatnite Dec 2012 #170
spin Dec 2012 #178
cynatnite Dec 2012 #184
spin Dec 2012 #191
spin Dec 2012 #190
MannyGoldstein Dec 2012 #157
qkvhj Dec 2012 #161
MannyGoldstein Dec 2012 #163
qkvhj Dec 2012 #167
MannyGoldstein Dec 2012 #169
Kennah Dec 2012 #172
MannyGoldstein Dec 2012 #189
otohara Dec 2012 #168
Kennah Dec 2012 #171
darkangel218 Dec 2012 #175
Zoeisright Dec 2012 #180
coalition_unwilling Dec 2012 #186
Zorra Dec 2012 #188

Response to Deep13 (Original post)

Sat Dec 15, 2012, 10:16 PM

1. self-editiing

don't want to provoke the gun nuts

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Response to Skittles (Reply #1)

Sat Dec 15, 2012, 10:18 PM

5. No, this is the time to have a discussion on gun control.

What's wrong with me: obesity, tooth decay, anxiety, a few other things.

Unless you meant the exams I am grading, in which case they are due monday.

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Response to Deep13 (Reply #5)

Sat Dec 15, 2012, 10:19 PM

9. people unsure of how many guns they have???

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Response to Skittles (Reply #9)

Sat Dec 15, 2012, 10:26 PM

16. I'm not going to kill anyone. nt

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Response to Deep13 (Reply #16)

Sat Dec 15, 2012, 10:29 PM

20. someone could break into your house and steal a gun

AND YOU WOULDN'T EVEN FUCKING KNOW

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Response to Skittles (Reply #20)

Sat Dec 15, 2012, 10:59 PM

53. That seems to be a limited definition of "know".

The ability to see that one (or more) is missing is just as valid a method as knowing the exact number that is supposed to be there.

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Response to ManiacJoe (Reply #53)

Sat Dec 15, 2012, 11:00 PM

55. I seriously hope you are joking

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Response to Skittles (Reply #20)

Sat Dec 15, 2012, 11:27 PM

89. I wouldn't know if someone broke in?

Even if I remembered the count, I'd still know what's missing. I'm just bad with figures.

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Response to Deep13 (Reply #89)

Sun Dec 16, 2012, 03:07 AM

173. I think double digits are your specialty

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Response to Skittles (Reply #20)

Sun Dec 16, 2012, 12:05 AM

126. Wow what an assumption

 

You have assumed that one of your own does not have a gun safe and maintains his weapons in a safe and sane manner. So basically you can not handle the fact that all gun owners are not totally crazy and obsess about their guns all the time.
How wise of you.
I have two large fireproof and expensive gun safes and I also do not know exactly how many guns are in them. I have lists by serial number in a safety deposit box but I do not have them out inventorying them every day.

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Response to Deep13 (Original post)

Sat Dec 15, 2012, 10:17 PM

2. Why don't you just take up whittling or some other hobby?

Why guns? Why not archery or bowling? I don't get it and never will.

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Response to femmocrat (Reply #2)

Sat Dec 15, 2012, 10:18 PM

4. They aren't manly man enough?

 

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Response to Floyd_Gondolli (Reply #4)

Sat Dec 15, 2012, 10:30 PM

23. essentially. nt

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Response to Deep13 (Reply #23)

Sun Dec 16, 2012, 04:07 AM

181. And there it is.

Penis substitute. Thanks for confirming what we all suspected.

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Response to femmocrat (Reply #2)

Sat Dec 15, 2012, 10:30 PM

21. I do archery too.

Hard to know exactly. Part of it was just growing up a male in this country. Girls played with dolls, boys with toy guns. It's a lifelong fascination. Plus, there is something challenging, mind-clearing, and somewhat relaxing about emptying ones mind and focusing on the target. And there is considerable satisfaction in cafefully squeezing the trigger and seeing that round print on the target. Also, I have a hectic schedule, most of my good friends live far away, and this is something I can do myself if no one else has time to go bowling or whatever. For a long time you could smoke in bowling alleys and I never liked that. At least for rifles, it is always outside.

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Response to Deep13 (Reply #21)

Sat Dec 15, 2012, 10:32 PM

27. Your answer is very disturbing to me.

I think it's time to say goodbye.

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Response to femmocrat (Reply #27)

Sat Dec 15, 2012, 11:28 PM

91. elaborate

is it the gender thing? I refer you to the writings of Joan Scoot who wrote extensively about gender identity being constructed from social norms.

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Response to Deep13 (Original post)

Sat Dec 15, 2012, 10:18 PM

3. Why in God's name do you have 15 guns for?

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Response to hrmjustin (Reply #3)

Sat Dec 15, 2012, 10:25 PM

15. 15 or 16

mostly variety. I have various .22 rifles for various ranges and whether I'm shooting open sights or scopes. Plus, mechanically, I like the variety of cowboy style vs bolt vs auto. I admire the mechanical aspects, the wood grain, and just like the variety.

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Response to Deep13 (Reply #15)

Sat Dec 15, 2012, 10:34 PM

29. Well it just seems odd to have that many, but who the hell am I to judge.

be safe my friend.

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Response to hrmjustin (Reply #29)

Sat Dec 15, 2012, 11:30 PM

94. I guess it is. I'm a bit eccentric.

I have a set of 4 telescope eyepieces that together cost $2400. Lasgt production run from Carl Zeiss in Germany. I certainly have more regular eyepeices than I can count. And I have five different telescopes each with something special to offer.

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Response to hrmjustin (Reply #29)

Sat Dec 15, 2012, 11:53 PM

107. That is not a large number for a competitor or sport shooter. Its minimal for a prepper

The wonderment of some about the mother in Conn is ill placed. She did not have the collection I would have expected of a prepper/survivalist.

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Response to Deep13 (Original post)

Sat Dec 15, 2012, 10:18 PM

6. I won't ask you a thing.

 

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Response to Whovian (Reply #6)

Sat Dec 15, 2012, 10:31 PM

24. Thanks for writing to say so. nt

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Response to Deep13 (Original post)

Sat Dec 15, 2012, 10:19 PM

7. How can you not know exactly how many guns you have?...

If one was stolen, would you even notice it was missing?

Sid

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Response to SidDithers (Reply #7)

Sat Dec 15, 2012, 10:21 PM

13. it is called "gun culture"

fear and ignorance - and THIS from someone who is "grading exams"

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Response to Skittles (Reply #13)

Sun Dec 16, 2012, 12:30 AM

145. Not all gun owners are illiterate rednecks. ...

Most of the regular shooters at the pistol range I used to shoot at before I retired were well educated professionals. A lot of engineers and technicians enjoy the shooting sports and reload their own ammunition. I have also know bankers, lawyers, doctors, nurses and even preachers who shot handguns on a monthly or weekly basis.

Many had fairly large collections of firearms and a lot of money invested in their hobby. You don't have to be rich or have a well paying job to enjoy shooting but if you wish to accumulate a number of firearms it helps to have a good paying job and the disposable income to do so. Hamburger flippers usually don't make enough money to go shooting very often.

The gun culture does indeed have a lot of truly cultured people. It's easy to believe in stereotypes but it is somewhat foolish.

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Response to spin (Reply #145)

Sun Dec 16, 2012, 03:15 AM

174. you are confusing gun owners and gun nuts

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Response to Skittles (Reply #174)

Sun Dec 16, 2012, 03:38 AM

176. The problem with the term "gun nuts" ...

is that while some consider it an insult many do not. To prove my point visit:
http://gunnuts.net/

I have often been called a gun nut by a friend and I laugh and say, "I prefer the term gun enthusiast."



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Response to spin (Reply #176)

Sun Dec 16, 2012, 03:40 AM

177. gawd

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Response to SidDithers (Reply #7)

Sat Dec 15, 2012, 10:26 PM

17. +1 - Maybe he doesn't really think of the potential damage. nt

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Response to SidDithers (Reply #7)

Sat Dec 15, 2012, 10:32 PM

25. Well, I'd notice that the door was kicked in.

And then I would check what was missing.

I buy and sell them (with FBI checks through a FFL dealer) all the time.

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Response to Deep13 (Original post)

Sat Dec 15, 2012, 10:19 PM

8. Have you ever shot in competition?

 

Silhouette or benchrest or anything?

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Response to frank380 (Reply #8)

Sat Dec 15, 2012, 10:35 PM

30. afraid not.

partly it's because of the time commitment and partly it is because of the right wing culture. Any road trip to a tournament would become a political argument. I've stopped going to amateur astronomical events (my other hobby) because they were turning into Glen Beck fan clubs.

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Response to frank380 (Reply #8)

Sun Dec 16, 2012, 12:19 AM

135. I do shoot comp

 

I shoot comp both with rifles and handguns. I also work on guns, build custom rifles and tune long range comp rifles for others.
My collection makes his 15-16 look pretty small but I would know instantly if one were missing.

Within my safes are weapons I used several years ago but have replaced with newer models or some with newer or different features or different shaped stocks, or even with lighter or heavier frames. Are you suggesting that after not shooting a rifle or pistol for 100 or 200 days you have to melt it down and toss it in a river??? Yes I do shoot archery as well.

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Response to Deep13 (Original post)

Sat Dec 15, 2012, 10:20 PM

10. OK ...

Is it possible for you to reduce your inventory and still be able to do what you intend?
Is it possible for you to optimize your selections so that they are more specifically suited to the intended purpose?
Is the purpose marksmanship?
Is it hunting game?
What qualities are you looking for in each application?
Can you selection accomplish the goal and minimize the potential for misuse in any way?

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Response to Vox Moi (Reply #10)

Sat Dec 15, 2012, 10:42 PM

32. each in turn...

"Is it possible for you to reduce your inventory and still be able to do what you intend?"

Sure.

"Is it possible for you to optimize your selections so that they are more specifically suited to the intended purpose?"

Probably, it really depends on the available ranges. There's one near here that only allows single-shot benchrest. Joining would be a reason to reduce handguns and auto-loaders, but maybe add a .30 cal target model. Won't join though, they want NRA membership.

"Is the purpose marksmanship?"

yes, targets for pistol and rifle.

"Is it hunting game?"

no, I don't hunt. I would upset my wife.

"What qualities are you looking for in each application?"

I'm a bit of a snob. I'm looking for accuracy, quality construction, collect-ability, something that fits my hand well, and is not too expensive to shoot.

"Can you selection accomplish the goal and minimize the potential for misuse in any way?"

they have their own locked room. the ammunition is in a different room. also I only sell through FFL dealers with FBI checks.

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Response to Deep13 (Reply #32)

Sat Dec 15, 2012, 11:26 PM

88. Would it be possible to have a really satisfying target pistol ...

that was deliberately designed to reduce lethality?
that was perhaps even designed to be as non-lethal as possible?

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Response to Vox Moi (Reply #88)

Sat Dec 15, 2012, 11:40 PM

100. I wrote a response but my computer lost it.

there are air pistols and video games, but it's just not the same.

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Response to Deep13 (Original post)

Sat Dec 15, 2012, 10:20 PM

11. Are you the model gun owner in your view?

I don't understand why you think this is so important to us.

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Response to Cobalt Violet (Reply #11)

Sat Dec 15, 2012, 10:43 PM

33. If it's not important to you, don't respond.

I do not puport to be a model anything.

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Response to Deep13 (Original post)

Sat Dec 15, 2012, 10:20 PM

12. Is there something you really want that you would trade for your guns?

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Response to rwheeler31 (Reply #12)

Sat Dec 15, 2012, 11:14 PM

62. universal health care would do it.

finally getting good at the Arabic language.

a long and happy marriage.

free education for my niece.

yeah, I can think of a lot.

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Response to Deep13 (Original post)

Sat Dec 15, 2012, 10:25 PM

14. Okay, I'll bite

Since a high capacity magazine is not needed to target shoot, defend oneself or to hunt, would you have a problem with them being banned?

Who you have a problem with getting rid of gun shows, and allowing only licensed gun dealers to sell weapons so that proper background checks can be done on all buyers?

Would you have a problem with having to have a license before buying any firearm, not just concealed carry licenses? After all, we have to have a license to drive, to marry, even to cut hair!

Would you have a problem with limiting ammo purchases to a certain amount per month?

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Response to TexasBushwhacker (Reply #14)

Sat Dec 15, 2012, 11:20 PM

72. two of those would be inconvenient, but not really problem.

Some of my auto-loaders use high-cap magazines, but I really think they have to go. The local shop sells those 33-round glock mags which are ideal for a mass shooting. The owner doesn't seem to be aware that there is a 30-round limit in this state.

all for background checks and licensing, although I would caution that no one is a criminal until he commits a crime. The murderer yesterday probably had no record. Include juvenile records.

I like to buy ammo on sale when I find a deal, so a limit would be inconvenient, that's all. There is a limit on pseudofed.

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Response to Deep13 (Original post)

Sat Dec 15, 2012, 10:28 PM

18. I'll ask you to turn them in to your local police or destroy them

 

Anyone that doesn't know how many guns they have is a source of potential problems down the line.

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Response to Floyd_Gondolli (Reply #18)

Sat Dec 15, 2012, 10:30 PM

22. I think the people who forget they have a gun at the airport are stupid

but THIS guy takes the cake

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Response to Skittles (Reply #22)

Sat Dec 15, 2012, 10:44 PM

35. I asked you to keep the personal insults to yourself. nt

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Response to Deep13 (Reply #35)

Sat Dec 15, 2012, 10:54 PM

45. LOL

if it is a personal insult to call someone STUPID who is UNSURE OF HOW MANY GUNS THEY HAVE then SO FUCKING BE IT

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Response to Floyd_Gondolli (Reply #18)

Sat Dec 15, 2012, 10:58 PM

51. I'm out in the sticks.

I am not sure the cops would take them.

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Response to Deep13 (Original post)

Sat Dec 15, 2012, 10:28 PM

19. As long as we're talking about self-defense...

Do you support my right to knock you out cold if I ever saw you walking around with a gun?

Seeing an armed person, I would feel threatened and would most likely hit you with the hardest nearby object.

You understand that, right?

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Response to Bonobo (Reply #19)

Sat Dec 15, 2012, 10:33 PM

28. Security guard also? Cop? What about carrying a baseball bat? Is that armed?

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Response to Logical (Reply #28)

Sat Dec 15, 2012, 10:44 PM

34. Nope, just a gun in the hand of a non-uniformed person.

But don't worry, if you're not carrying a gun, I wouldn't knock you out in self-defense.

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Response to Bonobo (Reply #34)

Sat Dec 15, 2012, 10:49 PM

41. That's not self defense

It's assault.

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Response to pintobean (Reply #41)

Sat Dec 15, 2012, 10:57 PM

49. Perhaps according to the law, yeah.

Still, best watch your back if you choose to carry in public. It IS threatening and it is NOT surprising that some would defend themselves against a potential attack.

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Response to Bonobo (Reply #49)

Sat Dec 15, 2012, 11:13 PM

61. Would you assault a woman who's carrying?

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Response to pintobean (Reply #61)

Sat Dec 15, 2012, 11:15 PM

63. Good question.

Yeah, if I felt threatened or if I felt my loved ones were threatened, I guess I would.

It is the responsibility of people to make sure they don't make other people feel so physically threatened that they might act in self-defense.

Carrying a gun near children is overtly threatening in my opinion.

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Response to Bonobo (Reply #63)

Sat Dec 15, 2012, 11:37 PM

98. Every cop I've ever known carries off-duty

and I've known quite a few, male and female. Not to mention plain clothes LEOs.
You sound like someone who shouldn't be allowed to walk American streets. But, you're in Japan, right?

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Response to pintobean (Reply #98)

Sat Dec 15, 2012, 11:42 PM

101. Yeah, cause America is fucking nuts.

Your LEO friends... did they ever consider, I wonder, if the sight of a gun in the hands of a stranger would be threatening?

Probably they have, and that is why they keep it concealed.

If they showed it in public openly, it would scare people and constitute a reasonable threat to some people.

Or do you NOT agree that a gun-wielding stranger should be legitimately considered a threat?

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Response to Bonobo (Reply #101)

Sat Dec 15, 2012, 11:55 PM

109. They're not always concealed.

I guess they figure that not many people are nutty enough to attempt an assault. Most people who are intimidated just move away. Often they will report it to a uniformed cop or security.

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Response to pintobean (Reply #109)

Sat Dec 15, 2012, 11:58 PM

113. Yup, so they don't really care if they scare people.

But I will try one more time to ask you a serious question.

If you do NOT think that an unidentified, non-uniformed gun-wielding stranger is threatening, how do you expect to be able to reasonably assess an actual threat in the form of an unidentified, non-uniformed gun-wielding stranger?

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Response to Bonobo (Reply #113)

Sun Dec 16, 2012, 12:16 AM

133. If I were as worried as you appear to be,

I'd just preemptively punch everyone, armed or not. After all, people like you are walking the streets. It just seems like the logical thing to do.

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Response to pintobean (Reply #133)

Sun Dec 16, 2012, 12:39 AM

151. Lots of smart answers.

And I am being facetious.

I am just feeling pissed about guns.

Sorry if you don't get that.

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Response to Bonobo (Reply #63)

Sun Dec 16, 2012, 12:26 AM

142. wow

Good to know you're willing to assault a woman who is doing NOTHING to you.

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Response to Bonobo (Reply #63)

Sun Dec 16, 2012, 12:35 AM

148. I was thinking along this line as well

 

If we were out with our families and somehow you detected that I was armed and assaulted me with a weapon and disabled or killed me my wife would draw and fire. She doesn't miss often. You would be badly wounded or dead, and charged with the assault. She would walk because her reaction was justified under our laws and either she or I would sue you for every dime you or your estate had.
Somehow I think you need to rethink your stance on this issue. It is not going to go as you think it should.
You are not part of the solution, you are now part of the problem.

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Response to Bonobo (Reply #34)

Sat Dec 15, 2012, 10:50 PM

43. Carrying in hand or in a holster? I have never seen someone carrying a gun in their hand. n-t

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Response to Logical (Reply #43)

Sat Dec 15, 2012, 10:59 PM

52. A holstered gun in the hands of a civilian...

could be very threatening to a person.

What if your kids were near?

What if you had been assaulted at gun point in your past?

What if you were just a nervous guy?

Acting in self-defense seems to be a theory that gun nuts say they understand, right?

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Response to Bonobo (Reply #52)

Sat Dec 15, 2012, 11:04 PM

57. I would like to see you come down to kansas and punch some of these farmers in the face...

that walk around the grain silo with a gun in their holster.

I think you might be in for a major league ass kickin. And they would not even need to touch the gun. Norwould they want to. It would be a fair fight I guarantee you.

And a felony assault arrest for you after getting ass kicked.

Let me know if interested. I want it on youtube!

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Response to Logical (Reply #57)

Sat Dec 15, 2012, 11:08 PM

59. I wouldn't go to Kansas.

Bring one of those farmers to where I live with a gun and I think it would be a different story entirely.

Let them stay in Kansas and I have no problem.

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Response to Bonobo (Reply #59)

Sat Dec 15, 2012, 11:17 PM

65. If you live in a state where open carry is legal you still go to jail!

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Response to Logical (Reply #65)

Sat Dec 15, 2012, 11:18 PM

69. Don't be scared, Logical.

Just keep your guns out of my sight and I wouldn't hurt you.

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Response to Bonobo (Reply #69)

Sat Dec 15, 2012, 11:20 PM

75. Lol, I love the tough guy on the Internet ploy!

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Response to Logical (Reply #75)

Sat Dec 15, 2012, 11:25 PM

84. LOL, me too, tough guy.

I liked the old "good ol' boys are tougher than y'all" chestnut you dragged out too.

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Response to Bonobo (Reply #52)

Sat Dec 15, 2012, 11:16 PM

64. Your insecurities far surpass that of any public gun toter.

 

You should consider serious help or anti-anxiety medication before you start an altercation with an armed person and get yourself (or a bystander) injured or killed. Hell, for all you know it's could be a plainclothes officer (detective/lieutenant) you're about to assault.

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Response to OneTenthofOnePercent (Reply #64)

Sat Dec 15, 2012, 11:19 PM

70. I am just exposing the cowardice of gun defenders.

Those who defend the right to walk around with a gun are afraid and it is hilarious to see it exposed.

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Response to Bonobo (Reply #70)

Sat Dec 15, 2012, 11:59 PM

117. You're right. I completely understand how you assaulting someone with a gun...

 

because YOU FEEL THREATENED demonstrates THEIR fear.

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Response to OneTenthofOnePercent (Reply #64)

Sat Dec 15, 2012, 11:21 PM

76. Yeah, what could possibly be threatening about a person with a loaded gun?

Are you fucking serious?

You're whining about being afraid of a person defending themselves with their hands when you can't see that a loaded gun is the REAL threat?

Hilarious.

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Response to Bonobo (Reply #52)

Sat Dec 15, 2012, 11:58 PM

114. How do you tell a civilian from an LEO?

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Response to ProgressiveProfessor (Reply #114)

Sat Dec 15, 2012, 11:59 PM

120. He now realizes it was a failed point! n-t

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Response to Logical (Reply #120)

Sun Dec 16, 2012, 12:01 AM

123. No, I do not.

I am trying to expose the stupidity of the country and system you live in.

The fact that you cannot answer how YOU would distinguish between a real threat is a true indication of the madness of the country that YOU live in.

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Response to ProgressiveProfessor (Reply #114)

Sun Dec 16, 2012, 12:42 AM

152. He can't answer this question

 

Can you imagine this guy trying to tell a judge why he assaulted an off duty LEO who is required to carry a weapon at all times.
He would be playing buba with the big boys for a while. I bet he would not like that culture either.

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Response to Logical (Reply #43)

Sat Dec 15, 2012, 11:17 PM

67. It is truly hilarious to expose the fear that gun defenders have.

Just the mere suggestion that SOMEONE might feel the need to defend themselves with their bare hands against a person wielding a gun is enough to cause outrage!

I find it hilarious to see how some feel when even a fraction of the shoe is on the other foot.

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Response to Bonobo (Reply #67)

Sat Dec 15, 2012, 11:19 PM

71. I think it is funny someone hates guns so bad they want to assault..

Someone legally carrying a gun for no reason!

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Response to Logical (Reply #71)

Sat Dec 15, 2012, 11:23 PM

81. Who said I would WANT to?

I am saying that a loaded gun in the hands of an unknown, non-uniformed person is, by any rational consideration, a real threat in a country with 200 times the gun homicides of 22 western nations combined.

If you do not think so, perhaps YOU are the irrational one.

Unknown, gun-wielding, non-uniformed person.

Think about it.

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Response to Bonobo (Reply #81)

Sat Dec 15, 2012, 11:25 PM

85. LOL, so anyone in a security guard uniform is ok? I love this!!

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Response to Logical (Reply #85)

Sat Dec 15, 2012, 11:30 PM

93. Well, that would be at least SOME indication that they are carrying in the performance of a job.

Not crazy about it, but no, I would not assault a security guard.

But if you don't think an unknown person with a gun is a threat, how do you expect you would be able to defend yourself or even IDENTIFY a crazy person when they come into the mall or your place of business with a gun.

So inured to guns that you have lost the sense of reasonable threat assessment and self-preservation.

THAT is funny and sad.

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Response to Bonobo (Reply #93)

Sat Dec 15, 2012, 11:37 PM

97. Anyone can walk around in a security guard uniform, hell, even have...

A badge that says "security". Perfectly legal!

And you feel safe with him, but an off duty cop in civilian clothes with a gun on his hip gets a punch in the face from you, the Sugar Ray of te DU!

You are looking a little silly at this point!


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Response to Logical (Reply #97)

Sat Dec 15, 2012, 11:40 PM

99. "Illogical" is a better name for you.

Answer the question.

Is a non-uniformed gun-wielding person a reasonable threat?

If not, how would you assess a threat?

I submit that, in your ignorance and unpreparedness, you wouldn't recognize a threat until a gun barrel was placed against your head.

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Response to Bonobo (Reply #99)

Sat Dec 15, 2012, 11:48 PM

105. Lol, your security guard ok vs. citizen cop not ended this discussion! You..

Need to think arguments through BEFORE starting them!

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Response to Logical (Reply #105)

Sat Dec 15, 2012, 11:54 PM

108. LOL, you still didn't answer the question. nt

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Response to Bonobo (Reply #108)

Sat Dec 15, 2012, 11:58 PM

115. Go work on the heavy bag Rocky, for that ultimate encounter with that off duty detective! LOL

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Response to Logical (Reply #115)

Sun Dec 16, 2012, 12:00 AM

121. Don't need to.

I live in a country that has intelligent policies regarding guns.

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Response to Bonobo (Reply #99)

Sun Dec 16, 2012, 12:48 AM

155. Stop... now you are trying to change the basis of your own statement

 

No one has talked about any wielding a weapon except for your statement of using one on someone else. Wielding is a statement of manipulation, handling, moving or using. This entire discussion has been about you detecting someone mealy carrying a gun.
So stick to the parameters of this discussion as you defined it and quit trying to change things because you can not support your own statements or answer very valid questions in any acceptable manner.

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Response to Bonobo (Reply #34)

Sat Dec 15, 2012, 11:57 PM

112. Non uniformed LEO must love you for that

Hoyt once said that is someone spotted someone carrying a concealed weapon that they should restrain them until law enforcement arrived. This is almost as funny

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Response to ProgressiveProfessor (Reply #112)

Sat Dec 15, 2012, 11:59 PM

118. Yeah, it is ironic for sure. nt

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Response to Bonobo (Reply #118)

Sun Dec 16, 2012, 12:05 AM

125. Its hilarious

You made an attempt at a reducto absurdem argument, and failed miserably.

At least it appeared to be an academic argument, while Hoyt seemed quite serious.

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Response to ProgressiveProfessor (Reply #125)

Sun Dec 16, 2012, 12:07 AM

128. Yes, it is an academic argument and I see no indication I failed.

No one so far has been able to address the question. Once again...

Is it reasonable to consider a gun-wielding stranger as a potential threat?

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Response to Bonobo (Reply #128)

Sun Dec 16, 2012, 12:20 AM

137. The answer is clearly no

A holstered/concealed weapon is not considered a prima facie threat under US law. Its presence may or may not be legal but that does no allow a non-LEO to take action.

Brandishing a weapon (waving, intentional display) can be crime, depending on the circumstances, as could be discharging it.

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Response to ProgressiveProfessor (Reply #137)

Sun Dec 16, 2012, 12:22 AM

139. So if a crazy guy walks into a mall, I will just ignore it as long as his gun is holstered.

Gotcha.

Glad I don't live in the US anymore.

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Response to Bonobo (Reply #139)

Sun Dec 16, 2012, 12:29 AM

144. How do you know he is crazy?

The law does not endorse an attack first, figure it out later approach.

If you have any concern, approach mall security, call 911, get the hell out of there. Using your best harai goshi is not the answer, even in Japan.

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Response to ProgressiveProfessor (Reply #144)

Sun Dec 16, 2012, 12:31 AM

146. Now you have stumbled on the truth. nt

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Response to Bonobo (Reply #146)

Sun Dec 16, 2012, 12:39 AM

150. It was always there, but your framing of it, as a reducto absurdum, failed

Anyone at any time if they see something that they are unsure about should bring it to the attention of someone who can do something about it. That is fair and reasonable. Attacking the object of their suspicion is not. In the US or Japan.

There are any number of stories about visitors to a nearby Starbucks freaking out because they caught a glimpse of a concealed weapon...the cop shop is around the corner. Newbies there will often seek out a uniformed officer who will calm them down..."that Det. Smith, he is fine"

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Response to Bonobo (Reply #128)

Sun Dec 16, 2012, 12:21 AM

138. I'll bite

Is it reasonable to consider a gun-wielding stranger as a potential threat?


It depends

-guy/gal carrying a holstered pistol while shopping, walking in the park or other routine activity- not so much. Same goes for people in blaze orange during hunting season, you see quite a lot of people carrying rifles and shotguns around.

-a person walking with a gun in a in hand for no obvious reason, hell yes that is a potential threat. Seek cover, observe and call 911 in you cannot find an immediate reasonable explanation i.e. they are walking into a gun store. On second though that is still not a good reason as gun shops usually require you to have a gun cased if you are going to sell it or have work done.

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Response to Bonobo (Reply #19)

Sat Dec 15, 2012, 10:45 PM

37. That will never happen.

As I said, it's a hobby. I only carry them in a case while unloaded.

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Response to Deep13 (Reply #37)

Sat Dec 15, 2012, 10:48 PM

40. That's good.

But you would understand, right?

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Response to Bonobo (Reply #40)

Sat Dec 15, 2012, 11:22 PM

78. sure, that would be threatening. nt

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Response to Bonobo (Reply #19)

Sat Dec 15, 2012, 11:20 PM

74. Hmmm...

"i don't like violence, so i'm going to threaten you"

looney toons...

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Response to slutticus (Reply #74)

Sat Dec 15, 2012, 11:31 PM

95. I see quotes. Who said that?

Not me.

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Response to Bonobo (Reply #19)

Sun Dec 16, 2012, 12:25 AM

141. Again all I can say is wow

 

I know a bunch of people who carry by permit. Not one of them has ever shown me or voiced the potential for violence that you just stated. And you would call them nuts because they own and legally carry a weapon. If a totally legal activity can cause you to have a possibly lethal violent reaction then it you that need help, not them.

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Response to Deep13 (Original post)

Sat Dec 15, 2012, 10:32 PM

26. So, you're the second person talk about the obscene amount of guns that you have...

in the wake of a massacre of children...and you're fucking grading papers.

I wonder how many others will brag about the number of guns they own.

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Response to cynatnite (Reply #26)

Sat Dec 15, 2012, 10:35 PM

31. I'm tempted to ask them EXACTLY HOW SMALL IS IT???

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Response to Skittles (Reply #31)

Sat Dec 15, 2012, 10:46 PM

39. no sex threads. tos nt

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Response to cynatnite (Reply #26)

Sat Dec 15, 2012, 10:46 PM

38. not bragging, seems like exactly the right time to talk. nt

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Response to Deep13 (Reply #38)

Sun Dec 16, 2012, 12:08 AM

129. Go count your fucking guns since you don't know how many you own. n/t

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Response to Deep13 (Original post)

Sat Dec 15, 2012, 10:45 PM

36. I see that you have a clear rationale for owning many guns and have

provided many thoughtful answers ...

Since you understand that not everyone who has access to guns is as clear headed as you think you are ...

what chance do you think we have of convincing 'gun right' advocates to accept some limiting of rights so that we all can be safe .... just the same way that air travellers have learnt to accept that airport screening might be a pain in the ass but might make us safer


can we get some agreement on that?

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Response to srican69 (Reply #36)

Sat Dec 15, 2012, 10:56 PM

48. Most others, sadly, are digging in their heels.

I've never voted on gun control before, but now I am thinking that failure to address the issue is a moral failure of that leader. I would like to see magazine restrictions, an end to unrestricted transfers, and the need for something more than a driver's license to buy a firearm. If we go after AKs and ARs, that would be all right too. It is pretty clear that mass shootings are not one-off events and we need to do something about our violent society, the gun culture is part of it, to convince people that violence in all its forms is not the solution to our problems. Children have a right to be safe in their own goddamn schools.

I blame the NRA for this. If they did not demonize anyone who wanted any restrictions, not make how innocuous, they could have saved shooting sports as a legitimate thing. Now, "they" really will be coming for our guns and I'll be lucky if I can keep my CZ bolt .22 with the Turkish walnut, Bavarian stock. And I won't blame liberals when they're gone. I'll blame the fucking NRA for ruining it for everyone.

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Response to Deep13 (Reply #48)

Sat Dec 15, 2012, 11:08 PM

58. Your last paragraph summed it up well IMO. I did target shooting as a youth decades and

decades ago. It was fun and a skill set. Back then it was just something kids did and with strict supervision. I think the NRA has ruined all of that. I'm not really a gun person, but did have a lot of fun target shooting and the focusing of ones mind that goes with that.

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Response to Deep13 (Original post)

Sat Dec 15, 2012, 10:49 PM

42. Tell me exactly how it would be a hardship on you

if you were required to register every gun. Some people like to collect cars -- maybe even 15 of them, and I don't think I have ever heard a single person complain about the requirement to properly title every vehicle. Why would we do less for guns.

And likewise when a car is sold, the title must be updated. Tell me why it would be a hardship on you to have the same requirement for your guns.

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Response to BlueStreak (Reply #42)

Sat Dec 15, 2012, 10:57 PM

50. okay, that would be fine with me.

keep a slug sample too.

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Response to Deep13 (Reply #50)

Sat Dec 15, 2012, 11:24 PM

83. It seems reasonable to me as well

I am having trouble understanding why any law abiding gun owner would have an objection to that.

Do that, eliminate the magazines with more than 10 rounds, require a special, more rigorous license for semi-automatic weapons, eliminate the gun show trade altogether, and make the background check really work. Do those things and we would be far better off than today. That won't eliminate all gun violence, but it would make a really big dent in it.

Another idea I think is worth exploring is to require that all gun transactions be processed by a licensed dealer. There could still be transactions between individuals, but they would have to be processed by a dealer for a nominal transaction fee to make sure the reporting is handled accurately and on a timely basis. If we did the ballistics thing you suggested, then dealer would take care of that bit. I'd think gun dealers would support something like that, even if the law said it had to be a nominal charge. That gets new customers into their store. As a shop owner, I'd take that deal all day long.

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Response to BlueStreak (Reply #83)

Sat Dec 15, 2012, 11:58 PM

116. definetly eliminate all unregulated transfers.

That's what's fueling the drug war in Mexico.

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Response to Deep13 (Reply #116)

Sun Dec 16, 2012, 01:13 AM

164. I already live in this reality

 

In cali all firearms transfers have to go through a dealer and all checks are mandatory. There is a mandatory 10 day waiting period on every sale in this state. I'm good with that. There are no legal firearms sales between private parties in this state and I'm good with that too.
What I'm not good with is any kind of fee or tax past that initial check and waiting time.
All of this and you will prob still get shot if you are white and walking in the wrong part of Oakland after dark on any night. The bad guys just ignore all of the laws so the only ones really impacted by these laws are the good guys who aren't out killing people.
I am interested in knowing what else we can do that will stop this murder and not restrict the constitutional rights of the clean record good guys in this country.

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Response to qkvhj (Reply #164)

Sun Dec 16, 2012, 09:10 AM

183. We cannot expect to stop every one. There are 300M guns and a lot of crazy people

What we can and must do, is take actions that we know will REDUCE the chances of these massacres happening and INCREASE the chances of dealing with the crazies.

And if this means a little inconvenience to gun owners who will probably never do any harm with their weapons, so be it. That is the cost of living in a civilized society.

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Response to BlueStreak (Reply #42)

Sat Dec 15, 2012, 11:59 PM

119. Tell me how society would be safer if he did so.

I'm curious for some fresh viewpoints on this concept. The Gungeon can get a bit stale at times.

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Response to krispos42 (Reply #119)

Sun Dec 16, 2012, 09:07 AM

182. Seat belts have not prevented EVERY auto death

Sometimes things happen that seat belts cannot prevent. Some people still choose to not wear seat belts.

But they make a real difference.

We know for certain that Connecticut's waiting period stopped the shooter from buying a rifle the day before at Dick's Sporting Goods. If his mother had not maintained a goddamned military arsenal at her house -- evidently UNPROTECTED -- then she would still be alive today. I don't give a shit about her, but more importantly all those innocents would probably be alive as well.

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Response to BlueStreak (Reply #182)

Sun Dec 16, 2012, 11:27 AM

187. Your proposals that I replied do did not include a waiting period

But registration and stuff doesn't work as a crime deterrent because career criminals don't use guns registered in their name and heat-of-passion murders occur with enough evidence to point to the killer regardless of the registration status of the weapon.


The results would not match the effort, is what I'm saying.


Waiting periods I'm not a big fan of, either, but it's something that can be compromised on.

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Response to krispos42 (Reply #187)

Sun Dec 16, 2012, 07:02 PM

192. That is a BS argument

It is the same old argument. If I cannot prove that I can stop every possible act of violence of any sort for all of eternity, then we cannot discuss any improvements to our gun laws.

I will not participate in that kind of BS argument.

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Response to BlueStreak (Reply #192)

Sun Dec 16, 2012, 10:59 PM

193. Registration is about post-crime investigation and prosecution.

Assuming, of course, the registered owner of the gun is the person that actually committed the crime, and the gun is recovered as the murder weapon. And there is not evidence otherwise that would have led to the criminal.


It's a lot of effort and a lot of money, and I don't think it has been a determining factor in solving many crimes.


I mean, if we decided to register computers to combat crime planning, sex crimes, and copyright fraud, do you think that would actually help?

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Response to Deep13 (Original post)

Sat Dec 15, 2012, 10:53 PM

44. If any of them are stolen, should you be held criminally responsible for crimes committed with

weapons you left unsecured?

Would the blood not be on your hands for not buying a gun safe?

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Response to BiminiTwisted (Reply #44)

Sat Dec 15, 2012, 11:00 PM

56. They're pretty secure.

There are no children in the house. They have their own room with lock. So I don't think I would be criminally negligent. These are legal products, after all, and we do not have vicarious criminality in this country.

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Response to Deep13 (Original post)

Sat Dec 15, 2012, 10:56 PM

46. Everyone has a hobby, many collect things. I hope you keep them safe.

Other than that, minimal questions. How did you start this collection, or why did you start collecting guns?

I am not one that considers everyone who owns a gun, or a collection, as evil. I am also heartbroken over the mass murder and have not come around to figuring out how to help prevent such from happening in the future. Have you thoughts on this?

Last question, grading exams for what, what do you teach?

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Response to uppityperson (Reply #46)

Sat Dec 15, 2012, 11:11 PM

60. college, USA history to 1877.

it's a survey class so we did not have a chance to get into the gendered and racist origins of the gun culture. I'm a TA.

I've always been interested in them and why shooting and not something else, I'll refer you up thread to where I answered that. Add to that, since moving to this part of Ohio, I found that shooting is an accepted and even admired recreation. It would have been harder to join a baseball team (well, especially for me).

I started in '04 because my father disapproved of guns and he died (stroke) in '99. Also, because of the campaign rhetoric in '04, I was genuinely afraid of my neighbors who voted Bush 60-40. If they came around looking for the godless, commies who were killing 'merica, I wanted something more than foul language. We did not keep our views secret, you know. I was on record giving John Kerry the Federal maximum in donations. That proved unnecessary, of course, but I really liked target shooting.

Generally, deprogram ourselves from thinking violence solves problems. Look for sources of violence in society: news media, our prison system, tolerance for poverty, capital punishment and get rid of that violence. More gun restrictions. Can't help noticing all these mass shootings started after the '04 AWB expiration. Finally, better mental health care for everyone, especially those with violent tendencies.

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Response to Deep13 (Reply #60)

Sat Dec 15, 2012, 11:29 PM

92. I have to say you seem rational to me

 

You don't hunt or shoot things that move and breathe. And you appear to understand why you enjoy target shooting. People forget it's a winter Olympic sport. I have some concerns about you not knowing how many you have because of the potential for theft, but I don't get a lunatic vibe from you at all, at least as far as that can be determined in this format.

The other guy that started a thread like this has 20,000 rounds of ammo in his house and seems a little too excited about it.

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Response to Floyd_Gondolli (Reply #92)

Sun Dec 16, 2012, 12:03 AM

124. um, thanks?

I don't have THAT much ammo, and most of it is .22 rimfire. I tend to buy it on sale.

I know what guns I have, so I would know if something were missing, and I would notice if someone broke in so I would check. I just do not have a good head for figures. And I sold a couple (FFL w/ FBI check) a little while ago and bought a couple so it is easy to lose track.

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Response to Deep13 (Original post)

Sat Dec 15, 2012, 10:56 PM

47. I respect you and your love of guns

 

I don't have any but I know you respect me. So, shoot away!

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Response to Herlong (Reply #47)

Sat Dec 15, 2012, 11:20 PM

73. thanks

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Response to Deep13 (Original post)

Sat Dec 15, 2012, 10:59 PM

54. You need 15 for target shooting?

Ok.

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Response to nadinbrzezinski (Reply #54)

Sat Dec 15, 2012, 11:21 PM

77. awkward phrasing.

You need 15 toys for target shooting? Okay.

Never said I needed them, BTW.

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Response to Deep13 (Reply #77)

Sat Dec 15, 2012, 11:44 PM

102. Auto correct sucks

So if you don't need 15, we agree...one or two should be sufficient.

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Response to nadinbrzezinski (Reply #102)

Sun Dec 16, 2012, 12:05 AM

127. I don't NEED any.

I bought them gradually over years because I liked them. That's all. And yeah, if it were a requirement I would be happy with my Turkish walnut .22, a .22 pistol, and my Marlin carbine. But as it is, they are not hurting anyone.

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Response to Deep13 (Reply #127)

Sun Dec 16, 2012, 12:19 AM

136. Yeah, but it is the potential of them getting lost

In a robbery.

But hey, enjoy those and ten more...someday we should regulate the number too.

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Response to Deep13 (Original post)

Sat Dec 15, 2012, 11:17 PM

66. What's your favorite dish at Thanksgiving?

You said to ask you anything. lol.

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Response to musical_soul (Reply #66)

Sat Dec 15, 2012, 11:23 PM

80. that's not fair!

I guess the turkey itself.

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Response to Deep13 (Original post)

Sat Dec 15, 2012, 11:18 PM

68. How do you lock them up?

The last day or so i've been looking for a beefier safe. I typically use a smallish lock box with a biometric lock, but if someone steals that, its not too hard to pry it open. I don't have kids, so i haven't really been careful enough about locking it up securely, but that will change.




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Response to slutticus (Reply #68)

Sat Dec 15, 2012, 11:24 PM

82. they are in they're own room.

but, I'm thinking of getting a dedicated cabinet. Either that or a locking rack.

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Response to Deep13 (Reply #82)

Sat Dec 15, 2012, 11:28 PM

90. Why not a big safe?

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Response to slutticus (Reply #90)

Sat Dec 15, 2012, 11:56 PM

111. They're big.

and we have no kids.

Anyway, I'll look into it.

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Response to Deep13 (Original post)

Sat Dec 15, 2012, 11:22 PM

79. Ginger or Mary Ann?

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Response to jorno67 (Reply #79)

Sat Dec 15, 2012, 11:25 PM

86. Mary Ann, a real woman, not a useless trophy. nt

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Response to Deep13 (Original post)

Sat Dec 15, 2012, 11:25 PM

87. Another one,

So how long until some nutjob steals your "toys" and starts shooting up your local school? Or maybe you will?

How will you sleep at night? How can you even begin to think you are a progressive when you own 15+ killing machines?

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Response to TRJuan (Reply #87)

Sat Dec 15, 2012, 11:47 PM

104. A long time I would think.

Pretty low crime area. No one around here even knows about them. And they are locked up.

Most of them are no one's idea of mass-shooting weapons anyway.

I contributed $4000 to the Kerry election fund in '04. I contributed the federal max in the Sherrod brown senate race in '06. Also thousands on other candidates. Since then I have stopped lawyering and started teaching, so the funds have dried up.

Frankly, my radical credentials are unassailable, so get off my back. I didn't shoot anyone, for christ sake.

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Response to Deep13 (Original post)

Sat Dec 15, 2012, 11:32 PM

96. Would you be okay with a federal law to have all firearms secured in the home?

 

In a safe not just trigger locks.

Would you support a law if you leave your firearm unsecured and it's used in a crime.
The owner of the stolen firearm is heavily fined or imprisoned?




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Response to former-republican (Reply #96)

Sat Dec 15, 2012, 11:52 PM

106. I think a person should be able to have one handy.

some people do have a legitimate need for defense. I felt like I did when prosecuting.

I dunno maybe. Generally, I'm not in favor of vicarious criminal liability. It think that would be a pretty big enlargement of state power. I guess it would be under the commerce clause on the federal level, but this really doesn't seem like a regulation of commercial activity so much as controlling street crime.

I suppose I would support it if it were shown that a lot for guns used in crimes or accidents are in fact stolen and not just bought through unregulated transfers.

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Response to Deep13 (Reply #106)

Sun Dec 16, 2012, 12:00 AM

122. unsecured firearms is an important issue in my opinion

 

"I suppose I would support it if it were shown that a lot for guns used in crimes or accidents are in fact stolen and not just bought through unregulated transfers"


I think there's a lot of evidence to support that. Most criminal gang members are not buying through an FFL dealer



Also

I have no problem with having one handy if you think it's needed in the home.
But when you leave your home take the firearm with you or lock it up.

Storing it in a closet with a trigger lock is not secured.

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Response to former-republican (Reply #122)

Sun Dec 16, 2012, 12:10 AM

130. Agreed that trigger locks =/= secured.

I use them for transportation because it would slow down a thief from using it immediately, but it is not hard to remove them.

I see your point, although I gang members don't use FFLs. I thought they may buy them from "private" sellers who act as middle men.

Yeah, that seems like a sensible precaution. I just would not want to it become a class issue. A safe can cost more than the gun, especially these days with low-cost polymer pistols.

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Response to Deep13 (Reply #130)

Sun Dec 16, 2012, 12:24 AM

140. Some are through straw purchases

 

some are stolen , that's why a mandatory NICS check for all private sales should be the law.

Listen man we're not going to stop all illegal gun sales and transfers .
That's like saying we need laws to stop illegal drug sales "I understand that"

But making it tougher to steal a firearm , making it where all private sales have to go through a NICS check
isn't unreasonable in my opinion.

We have to do something


I'm not with the gun grab crowd , I own firearms

My favorite type of shooting is black powder and some precision shooting.

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Response to Deep13 (Original post)

Sat Dec 15, 2012, 11:45 PM

103. Ask you anything?

Can you go fuck yourself?

I just unfriended someone on FB because ever since Adam Lanza decided it was okay to blow the brains out off 20 little kindergarteners and elementary students, he was constantly posting and whining about people talking about gun control. That shooter's mom was one of those "gun enthusiasts" ... a paranoid idiot who thought that there will be an economic collapse and people will come for her money. She received $240,000 alimony a year alone from ex-husband. She had more guns than she ever needed and she took her mentally unstable son with personality disorders to target practice and taught him how to shoot. Apparently, she didn't see a reason to lock her guns away. Good job, mom. He used his mom's legal guns to snuff out the lives of little innocent children.

I suggested to my FB friend that he should call one of the parents who are mourning the loss of their little angel to see if they would console him in his imagined horrific loss of his gun rights.

I have a little boy who will turn 4 in May. I haven't slept since Friday because of anxiety attacks.

Go ahead and alert ... I don't really give a shit anymore. Just go fuck yourself.

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Response to tandot (Reply #103)


Response to tandot (Reply #103)

Sun Dec 16, 2012, 12:14 AM

132. I don't know why you have to be offensive. Do you?

 

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Response to Democratopia (Reply #132)

Sun Dec 16, 2012, 12:28 AM

143. Why I have to be offensive?

I have an almost 4 year old an we were looking at different option for Kindergarten. The thought of having anyone coming in there, putting a gun to his head, and blowing out his brain, is very offensive to me ... and this is just mildly expressing what I feel right now.

I see my son in every of those 20 kids. Seeing his friends killed and then having to look down the barrel of a gun, knowing that he'll suffer the same fate. Knowing that his mom and dad wont be there to protect him. Offensive?

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Response to tandot (Reply #143)

Sun Dec 16, 2012, 12:36 AM

149. Yes your language has been very offensive. If you want to live in a climate of peace, try working

 

towards peace and set an example. You know, words hurt, as well as bullets. In fact words are the thing that can provoke dangerous reactions.

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Response to Democratopia (Reply #149)

Sun Dec 16, 2012, 01:03 AM

160. My language is offending you?

You are not offended by the 5 or 6 year old children who had their brains blown out?

Really?

Peace? Dangerous reactions? Really? How much more serious can get it? I'll tell you ... I am more than willing to kill anyone who attempts to take my son's life

I hope you are trying to part of the solution ... if not, go to hell

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Response to tandot (Reply #160)

Sun Dec 16, 2012, 11:08 AM

185. You were extremely offensive to the opening poster. Your excuse seems to be

 

that a gunman killed children. The actions of a killer do NOT excuse your behavior.

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Response to Democratopia (Reply #185)

Mon Dec 17, 2012, 11:45 PM

194. Really?

I don't need an excuse. Some asshole posted proudly that he owned an arsenal of guns to stir up shit here...after some gun-loving asshole killed 20 little children with guns legally purchased by his gun-toting "survivalist" mom.

You complain about MY behavior? Really? I hope I'll continue to be "extremely offensive" to those gun-loving idiots who think now is the right time now to brag about their guns.





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Response to Deep13 (Original post)

Sun Dec 16, 2012, 12:12 AM

131. This thread should disappear... trash. n/t

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Response to Agschmid (Reply #131)

Sun Dec 16, 2012, 12:18 AM

134. Why? Why is there so much censorship? Why is there so much anger aimed at the opening poster?

 

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Response to Democratopia (Reply #134)

Sun Dec 16, 2012, 12:32 AM

147. He doesn't know how many fucking guns he owns.

What kind of person doesn't know how many lethal weapons they own?

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Response to cynatnite (Reply #147)

Sun Dec 16, 2012, 12:45 AM

154. I am anti-gun, would never own a gun, but I have no idea how many knives I have.

 

I don't blame somebody who has never used a gun against another person, but has guns because that is what they were brought up with. A gun does not have to be a lethal weapon, you know. There is no need to be angry at the opening poster.

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Response to Democratopia (Reply #154)

Sun Dec 16, 2012, 12:53 AM

158. You are comparing knives to guns...seriously?

A gun is a lethal weapon...it wasn't designed to look the way it does for no reason. A bullet in a gun has only one function. To kill.

If you don't know how many guns you own, you own too many.

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Response to cynatnite (Reply #158)

Sun Dec 16, 2012, 01:10 AM

162. I think one gun is too many, but we are where we are.

 

How much stuff do you have that you rarely use? Better that a responsible gun owner has too many, than he sells them so more guns are on the market and a lunatic can get hold of them. I don't think it is a statement on the mindset of the OP that he has lots of guns. He has said that target practice is a hobby to him. It isn't something I encourage, as I would be glad to rid the world of every gun, but that isn't going to happen. We shouldn't end the discussion with people because we don't agree. What is important is that we find areas where we can gain a greater understanding, and I think that is what the OP was intending to do.

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Response to Democratopia (Reply #154)

Sun Dec 16, 2012, 03:55 AM

179. At close range in skilled hands a knife is a more deadly weapon than many handguns. ....

Let me assure you that last person I ever want to have to try to stop when he attacks is a knife fighter. I may shoot him but he most likely will cut me and the wound may be very serious or fatal.

I also collect knifes but since I have no training in that martial art I am no knife fighter.

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Response to Democratopia (Reply #134)

Sun Dec 16, 2012, 12:45 AM

153. At this time gun owners are not popular here on DU. ...

I feel this is understandable but sad.

Some posters are suggesting that anyone who admits he belongs to the NRA should not be permitted to post here. If you admit you own firearms you can expect to get a lot of insults.

I own firearms and I am a member of the NRA however I merely pay my yearly membership dues and will probably drop my membership the next time it comes due. I feel that the NRA has portrayed Obama as a "gun grabber" which he is not. They also ignored the fact that during his first term, Obama was very friendly to those who support gun rights and received a "F" rating from the Brady Campaign.

If we are ever to make any progress in making our gun laws more effective both sides of the issue have to start showing some respect for each other.

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Response to spin (Reply #153)

Sun Dec 16, 2012, 12:48 AM

156. good luck on that

 

"If we are ever to make any progress in making our gun laws more effective both sides of the issue have to start showing some respect for each other"

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Response to former-republican (Reply #156)

Sun Dec 16, 2012, 01:18 AM

165. You are right. Sadly that is why we have not made any real progress in the last decade.

I see little chance of this changing anytime in the near future.

I could be wrong if Obama decides to become a great leader rather than a great campaigner. He has the ability to be one of the best presidents we have ever had but he has to step up and and take charge.

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Response to spin (Reply #153)

Sun Dec 16, 2012, 12:55 AM

159. Why wait? Cut up your NRA card and mail it to them if you feel that righteous about it. n/t

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Response to cynatnite (Reply #159)

Sun Dec 16, 2012, 01:20 AM

166. I might if I could find the damn thing. ...

I never bothered to carry the card in my wallet and I misplaced it.

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Response to spin (Reply #166)

Sun Dec 16, 2012, 02:00 AM

170. And that's all that is stopping you from telling them to stick where the sun don't shine? n/t

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Response to cynatnite (Reply #170)

Sun Dec 16, 2012, 03:49 AM

178. After thinking about this ...

I have decided to give them a fair chance to sit down with Obama to hammer out some changes in our law. Of course Obama has to step up the plate and take chanrge.

I doubt that this will happen but there is a chance. If the NRA goes wild becasue of Obama's recent comments about gun control and makes all sorts of false statements I WILL cancel my membership. I hope other NRA members will do the same.

Not that my quiting will make a difference as only a very small portion of my yearly membership fee goes to the support of the NRA-ILA which is the propaganda wing of the NRA. My main reason for supporting the NRA is that they offer excellent safety and concealed carry courses and I know several of their instructors.

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Response to spin (Reply #178)

Sun Dec 16, 2012, 10:29 AM

184. You are giving the NRA a fair chance to sit down with Obama? Seriously? n/t

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Response to cynatnite (Reply #184)

Sun Dec 16, 2012, 01:17 PM

191. I think timing is important. ...

I should have canceled my membership prior to the election when the NRA endorsed Romney but i didn't. If the NRA refuses to engage in a constructive conversation about improving our gun laws, my resignation at that time might make more impact.

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Response to spin (Reply #178)

Sun Dec 16, 2012, 01:11 PM

190. Delete. replied to wrong poster.

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Response to Deep13 (Original post)

Sun Dec 16, 2012, 12:49 AM

157. Are you safer owning the guns vs. if you did not have them?

Is the rest of the world safer with you owning those guns vs. if you did not have them?

For context, states with strong gun laws tend to have fewer guns and fewer gun deaths. My own state of Massachusetts has pretty strict laws (I only passed two gun dealers each day on the 20-mile commute to my previous job) and the lowest rate of gun deaths in the country - fewer than 1/3rd the national average.

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Response to MannyGoldstein (Reply #157)

Sun Dec 16, 2012, 01:06 AM

161. Strict gun laws that tend to make gun crime less??

 

Please apply that logic to Illinois, Chicago, Detroit, Oakland and the rest of the big cities with very strict gun laws.
Sorry it doesn't work by a long shot.
Yes I am a lot safer because I own and carry firearms. Not one of my weapons has ever been a problem to anyone but one did stop a very bad situation from getting much worse. LEO's did respond and I walked away with my firearm. The bad guy went to jail.
How many reports can you find that deal with a person with a CCW doing something illegal with their weapon. How many reports can you find about criminals who ignored all the gun control laws and did something illegal with a firearm/handgun or assault weapon?
So who are the problem people here? The ones who obey the laws or the individual who ignore the laws and kill innocent people?

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Response to qkvhj (Reply #161)

Sun Dec 16, 2012, 01:12 AM

163. Those are cities. States are much more representative.

A person in a city can easily go outside of the city to buy guns. It's typically much more work to go outside the state.

And most gun deaths are not due to suicides and accidents, not murders. These things get much worse when lots of weapons are lying around.

More guns = more gun deaths, in every analysis that I've seen.

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Response to MannyGoldstein (Reply #163)

Sun Dec 16, 2012, 01:31 AM

167. Not really the actual numbers demonstrate smarting very different

 

It is more about the local population, the local culture, population density, the rate of unemployment. and race. Yea I know we aren't supposed to talk of such things but that is the truth, the real numbers.
It is kind of like the anti gun folks including police shooting people between the ages of 18 and 25 into their homicide of children stats or the other side wanting to tell you that a personal sale is not really a gun sale.
If you really want to look at a horrific statistic look at the black on black firearm violence. Why are we not in those communities getting a handle on that??? The cities that have the toughest laws on guns tend to have the worst problems. That is the truth.

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Response to qkvhj (Reply #167)

Sun Dec 16, 2012, 01:48 AM

169. Wyoming is pretty damned white. So is Montana.

Yet Wyoming's firearms death rate is 18 per 100,000 residents, and Montana's is 16. Both have a distinct lack of gun laws.

The national average is a little above 10.

And Massachusetts? 3.1.

Gun control laws save lives.

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Response to MannyGoldstein (Reply #169)

Sun Dec 16, 2012, 02:45 AM

172. I think you're picking and chosing numbers to your liking

States around you with relatively lax gun laws have lower murder rates. States with more restrictive laws have higher murder rates.

Murders per 100K, FBI UCR, Table 5
http://www.fbi.gov/about-us/cjis/ucr/crime-in-the-u.s/2011/crime-in-the-u.s.-2011/tables/table-5

1.3 - New Hampshire
1.3 - Rhode Island
1.3 - Vermont
2.0 - Maine
2.8 - Massachusetts
4.0 - New York
4.3 - New Jersey

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Response to Kennah (Reply #172)

Sun Dec 16, 2012, 12:52 PM

189. You're not including accidents and suicides

Which account for most gun deaths.

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Response to Deep13 (Original post)

Sun Dec 16, 2012, 01:34 AM

168. What Will You Do With Them

when you're too old to use them?

Do you have children?

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Response to Deep13 (Original post)

Sun Dec 16, 2012, 02:22 AM

171. I used to have 22 guns, but I misplaced a couple of them.

Actually, that's not true. I pawned them. 6 to be exact. So now I have 16 guns.

I'm not a hunter, but I don't have a problem with hunting. If one hunts, depending upon the hunting one does, that can add a couple of guns to the collection. A shotgun, a .22, a varmint rifle (something around .223 caliber), a deer rifle (between 7mm and .30 caliber), and a belted magnum rifle, and you can properly hunt any game animal in North America.

If one is a trap, skeet, or clays shooter, that takes a shotgun, but perhaps one could use the same shotgun that one used for hunting.

If one is a high power shooter, that's a different rifle altogether.

There are all sorts of handgun competition that use anything from conventional handguns to tricked out "race guns" that are only useful for competitive shooting.

If you keep a handgun at home for defense, and carry concealed, perhaps one uses the same gun, but perhaps not. I carried a .38 snubbie revolver for a couple of years, then switched to a .357 snubbie. Eventually changed to my Glock 23 and I've been with it ever since for carry.

Then there are some who collect guns. Is one limited to a specific number in a collection?

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Response to Deep13 (Original post)

Sun Dec 16, 2012, 03:16 AM

175. Wow

Excuse me, you need to go count your weapons right about fuking now! If you haven't done so already!!

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Response to Deep13 (Original post)

Sun Dec 16, 2012, 04:07 AM

180. Thanks for identifying yourself.

Welcome to my ignore list.

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Response to Deep13 (Original post)

Sun Dec 16, 2012, 11:11 AM

186. Are you a douchenozzle in real life or do you simply play one on DU? - n/t

 

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Response to Deep13 (Original post)

Sun Dec 16, 2012, 11:57 AM

188. LOL! You crack me up, Deep 13. What could have possibly motivated you

to post this?


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