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Sat Dec 15, 2012, 04:17 PM

So it seems "mom" was a full out gun nut survivalist whack job.

She trained her children in the fine art of gun nuttery. She failed to keep her many guns safe and secure, despite the fact that one of her children, the shooter, is now reported to have had documented serious mental problems. She paid with her life, as did 20 children and four other adults.

Seems to me that gun nuttery has a lot to answer for here, and it is no wonder at all why our small collection of du gun enthusiasts are so busy deflecting all over this board.

Gun culture has to go. It is the problem.

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Reply So it seems "mom" was a full out gun nut survivalist whack job. (Original post)
Warren Stupidity Dec 2012 OP
Lex Dec 2012 #1
Skittles Dec 2012 #3
Lex Dec 2012 #5
villager Dec 2012 #40
BlancheSplanchnik Dec 2012 #46
Baitball Blogger Dec 2012 #8
Lex Dec 2012 #13
BlueStreak Dec 2012 #65
roguevalley Dec 2012 #22
dorkzilla Dec 2012 #33
kag Dec 2012 #66
lyonn Dec 2012 #184
truedelphi Dec 2012 #47
roguevalley Dec 2012 #50
jpak Dec 2012 #185
ProgressiveProfessor Dec 2012 #200
blueamy66 Dec 2012 #54
FarPoint Dec 2012 #81
Chorophyll Dec 2012 #99
AldoLeopold Dec 2012 #55
louis c Dec 2012 #93
Walk away Dec 2012 #174
MrsMatt Dec 2012 #117
sellitman Dec 2012 #118
jberryhill Dec 2012 #128
politicaljunkie41910 Dec 2012 #31
ProudToBeBlueInRhody Dec 2012 #78
we can do it Dec 2012 #94
obamanut2012 Dec 2012 #101
we can do it Dec 2012 #105
obamanut2012 Dec 2012 #107
we can do it Dec 2012 #108
SummerSnow Dec 2012 #132
we can do it Dec 2012 #149
Sissyk Dec 2012 #148
Walk away Dec 2012 #175
obamanut2012 Dec 2012 #100
coalition_unwilling Dec 2012 #126
jberryhill Dec 2012 #129
ellenfl Dec 2012 #160
vankuria Dec 2012 #169
SemperEadem Dec 2012 #180
vankuria Dec 2012 #191
oldbanjo Dec 2012 #179
Hassin Bin Sober Dec 2012 #151
xtraxritical Dec 2012 #76
DBoon Dec 2012 #150
Cha Dec 2012 #111
SummerSnow Dec 2012 #134
patrice Dec 2012 #2
Union Scribe Dec 2012 #4
Warren Stupidity Dec 2012 #6
AndyA Dec 2012 #7
BlancheSplanchnik Dec 2012 #73
Chorophyll Dec 2012 #102
Love Bug Dec 2012 #135
LiberalAndProud Dec 2012 #9
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uppityperson Dec 2012 #10
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cali Dec 2012 #11
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Hassin Bin Sober Dec 2012 #152
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pop topcan Dec 2012 #208
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Walk away Dec 2012 #177
ProgressiveProfessor Dec 2012 #199
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Chorophyll Dec 2012 #186
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redqueen Dec 2012 #25
Warren DeMontague Dec 2012 #48
Hassin Bin Sober Dec 2012 #153
redqueen Dec 2012 #162
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Bodhi BloodWave Dec 2012 #215
Warren Stupidity Dec 2012 #204
reformist2 Dec 2012 #27
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elfin Dec 2012 #30
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Flatpicker Dec 2012 #43
vaberella Dec 2012 #59
xmas74 Dec 2012 #68
Flatpicker Dec 2012 #74
xmas74 Dec 2012 #171
Warren DeMontague Dec 2012 #45
amuse bouche Dec 2012 #51
LynneSin Dec 2012 #52
amuse bouche Dec 2012 #58
HockeyMom Dec 2012 #63
malaise Dec 2012 #64
Zen Democrat Dec 2012 #70
Third Doctor Dec 2012 #69
JimDandy Dec 2012 #110
albear Dec 2012 #72
Chemisse Dec 2012 #75
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kiva Dec 2012 #96
Chemisse Dec 2012 #114
kiva Dec 2012 #145
obamanut2012 Dec 2012 #104
Chemisse Dec 2012 #115
Floyd_Gondolli Dec 2012 #159
Sissyk Dec 2012 #167
Chemisse Dec 2012 #188
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thucythucy Dec 2012 #165
Chemisse Dec 2012 #190
thucythucy Dec 2012 #198
grahampuba Dec 2012 #77
Xipe Totec Dec 2012 #79
ProgressiveProfessor Dec 2012 #85
Warren Stupidity Dec 2012 #122
ProgressiveProfessor Dec 2012 #123
Warren Stupidity Dec 2012 #125
ProgressiveProfessor Dec 2012 #130
Warren Stupidity Dec 2012 #133
ProgressiveProfessor Dec 2012 #178
grantcart Dec 2012 #86
we can do it Dec 2012 #89
Skittles Dec 2012 #90
Ken Burch Dec 2012 #92
former9thward Dec 2012 #95
jberryhill Dec 2012 #131
former9thward Dec 2012 #147
Hassin Bin Sober Dec 2012 #157
former9thward Dec 2012 #161
Chorophyll Dec 2012 #97
Coyotl Dec 2012 #98
Sadiedog Dec 2012 #109
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DonCoquixote Dec 2012 #116
Warren Stupidity Dec 2012 #121
pegasis Dec 2012 #141
lillypaddle Dec 2012 #119
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Axiomat Dec 2012 #124
Swede Atlanta Dec 2012 #127
MichaelHarris Dec 2012 #136
Liberal1975 Dec 2012 #137
HockeyMom Dec 2012 #139
Amonester Dec 2012 #146
horsedoc Dec 2012 #140
Warren Stupidity Dec 2012 #172
mhilburn Dec 2012 #158
apocalypsehow Dec 2012 #176
humbled_opinion Dec 2012 #187
cecilfirefox Dec 2012 #193
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pop topcan Dec 2012 #209
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nolabels Dec 2012 #206
ohheckyeah Dec 2012 #211

Response to Warren Stupidity (Original post)

Sat Dec 15, 2012, 04:20 PM

1. I can't believe she knew she had a son with mental problems and didn't LOCK

up those guns. Stupid to even have them in the house, actually.

Terribly stupid and tragic.

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Response to Lex (Reply #1)

Sat Dec 15, 2012, 04:21 PM

3. but that epitomizes the gun culture

fear and ignorance

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Response to Skittles (Reply #3)

Sat Dec 15, 2012, 04:23 PM

5. so true . . .

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Response to Skittles (Reply #3)

Sat Dec 15, 2012, 06:14 PM

40. epitomizes? Those are its entire ingredients.

Though perhaps we're saying the same thing.

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Response to Skittles (Reply #3)

Sat Dec 15, 2012, 06:26 PM

46. yes...fear, ignorance

And anger. Pointing the finger at everything outside of themselves....expecting salvation from something outside themselves.......


.


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Response to Lex (Reply #1)

Sat Dec 15, 2012, 04:27 PM

8. Maybe mom was not mentally all there either?

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Response to Baitball Blogger (Reply #8)

Sat Dec 15, 2012, 04:34 PM

13. Certainly not very smart

of her and maybe not mentally healthy either. Tragic.


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Response to Lex (Reply #13)

Sat Dec 15, 2012, 06:54 PM

65. If there were a way for Darwin to work his magic with guns, I would not want any gun laws

But Darwin is off his game here. Yes, the crazies end up killing their fellow crazies and usually blow their own brains out in the end. That is Darwin at work. But along the way, so many innocents are hurt and killed, so many lives ruined, for what? For the right for nuts to be nuts?

This guy went to Dick's Sporting Goods to buy a rifle. Connecticut has a waiting period and that stopped the purchase. That gun law worked.

But he had a mother with a goddamed arsenal in her house. And obviously it wasn't locked up because the kid got it and killed mom with it, and then killed a bunch of innocents.

One gun law worked. But unfortunately we don't have any laws that force some scrutiny over these nut cases that pack a house full of weapons.

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Response to Lex (Reply #1)

Sat Dec 15, 2012, 05:47 PM

22. actually, some people like to target and skeet practice and some

keep antiques. i am one. I am also a teacher. Having guns doesn't make you a nut but being careless with them makes you a fool. This woman taught kindergarten. she was a mom. She didn't deserve this anymore than any other victim did. I don't blame her. I blame the shooter and I blame society for this. We don't treat mentally ill people. Go out on the street. Mentally ill people are in prison or on the street without any help. I remember when we used to take care of them. We allow gun lobbies to buy politicians when the polls say gun laws are acceptable. There are a lot of issues in play here. I don't think kicking the dead is good. IMHO. Both as a person and as a teacher.

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Response to roguevalley (Reply #22)

Sat Dec 15, 2012, 06:01 PM

33. She wasn't a teacher

It was misreported by the press. You should probably go read the latest press...a lot has changed in terms of reported facts. It certainly would seem she was a gun nut - - she purportedly thought there was an impending crisis she needed to arm for.

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Response to dorkzilla (Reply #33)

Sat Dec 15, 2012, 06:54 PM

66. Little did she know...

that by arming for a crisis she was creating one. Although, I guess she SHOULD have known. Or at least she should have considered the possibility.

Shoulda' woulda' coulda'

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Response to kag (Reply #66)

Sun Dec 16, 2012, 04:01 PM

184. Yep

Ironic isn't it?!

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Response to roguevalley (Reply #22)

Sat Dec 15, 2012, 06:26 PM

47. But very few people are skeet enthsiasts and

Use a gun that can fire some five hundred bits of ammunition.

I think guns are a given right by the Second Amendment. I never in my life appreciated the Second Amendment until George the Younger took office.

But no one needs to have a semi automatic weapon.

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Response to truedelphi (Reply #47)

Sat Dec 15, 2012, 06:30 PM

50. I agree. They are military weapons and need to be banned. I wish they would be.

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Response to truedelphi (Reply #47)

Sun Dec 16, 2012, 04:08 PM

185. Very expensive over-and-under shotguns are used by avid skeet shooters

They only hold two shells.

The skeet shooter defense as apology for assault weapons fails.

yup

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Response to truedelphi (Reply #47)

Sun Dec 16, 2012, 10:13 PM

200. Actually you are wrong there on several counts

A typical shot shell used in skeet has 520 bits of ammunition (#9 shot) in each round.

Many people shoot trap and skeet with semi auto shotguns. Reduced recoil matters over time. My trap gun is an old Remington 1100, ported, back bored, with a Speed Loc trigger. Served me well over the years. It has the typical 5 round magazine.

I well understand your point and am just being pedantic this evening.



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Response to roguevalley (Reply #22)

Sat Dec 15, 2012, 06:35 PM

54. She got $250k a yr in alimony and she couldn't afford mental health care

 

for her son?

Her kid wasn't living in the streets.

I am in no way blaming her, but what you wrote has nothing to do with what happened yesterday.

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Response to blueamy66 (Reply #54)

Sat Dec 15, 2012, 08:12 PM

81. Excellent point.

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Response to blueamy66 (Reply #54)

Sat Dec 15, 2012, 10:54 PM

99. Indeed. Thank you. nt

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Response to roguevalley (Reply #22)

Sat Dec 15, 2012, 06:36 PM

55. Don't you see

Its this reverence of firearms that was her fatal flaw. She relied on them. Worshiped them in a sense. How could something that protects us therefore kill us?

This is the heart of gun culture. It ignores the double edged sword. How can you keep a 20 year old from a gun? Lock it up? And he wouldn't find a way? He clearly was intelligent by all reports.

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Response to roguevalley (Reply #22)

Sat Dec 15, 2012, 10:24 PM

93. Assault Rifles...Enough Said

Who the fuck needs assault weapons.

What single mother, kindergarten teacher, living in the quietest town in America with no crime rate (until now) needs 4 assault weapons, if she was in her right mind?

The more we learn about this, the easier it will get to understand.

20 children died because the mother of the shooter collected God Damned assault weapons.

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Response to louis c (Reply #93)

Sun Dec 16, 2012, 02:58 PM

174. Most gun nut seem to be more affraid of the police and the government than...

robbers. They make a big noise about "the bad guys" but they eventually slip a "I don't want the police to have all of the guns".

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Response to roguevalley (Reply #22)

Sun Dec 16, 2012, 08:37 AM

117. She is equally to blame for not securing her arsenal.

And IF the reports are true, that her son was mentally unstable, she is even more culpable for not removing the guns.

I grew up with guns that were always handy and always loaded. Fortunately, even at a young age I knew that the responsible thing for me to do was to leave them alone. Especially since my father wasn't going to do the right thing and lock them up.

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Response to roguevalley (Reply #22)

Sun Dec 16, 2012, 09:16 AM

118. You dont blame her?

Are you serious?

She who kept unlocked guns in a house with a child with mental problems?

huh?

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Response to roguevalley (Reply #22)


Response to Lex (Reply #1)


Response to politicaljunkie41910 (Reply #31)

Sat Dec 15, 2012, 07:47 PM

78. No it really doesn't

Don't know why what she got paid in alimony had to do with any of it.

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Response to ProudToBeBlueInRhody (Reply #78)

Sat Dec 15, 2012, 10:33 PM

94. Well, she wasn't scraping to get by or living in a dangerous area, by neighbor's accounts.

Sadly her guns killed her and a bunch of innocent babies.

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Response to we can do it (Reply #94)

Sat Dec 15, 2012, 10:55 PM

101. So? And?

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Response to obamanut2012 (Reply #101)

Sat Dec 15, 2012, 11:00 PM

105. What is wrong with you? I was responding to post about the $250,000 per year alimony.

As I stated - the neighbors felt they lived in a safe area.

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Response to we can do it (Reply #105)

Sat Dec 15, 2012, 11:03 PM

107. Not a damned thing is wrong with me

I am sick of this thread and people slagging a murdered woman. It doesn't matter she was paid a lot of alimony or wasn't "scraping by."

Lots of people in this thread have something wrong with them, but I'm not one of them.


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Response to obamanut2012 (Reply #107)

Sat Dec 15, 2012, 11:05 PM

108. Whatever - if she was promoting gun worship and paranoia she is part of the problem.

If true, she is partly responsible for the death of those little kids.

And I am sick and fucking tired of anyone sticking up for any fucking gun nut- dead or alive. PERIOD.
I am sick to death that little kindergartners were killed by FUCKING GUNS OWNED BY FUCKING PARANOID ASSHOLES.
People who play with fire just might get burnt. Innocent little babies never deserve to die at the hands of psychopaths.
Psychopaths should not have access to guns - PERIOD

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Response to we can do it (Reply #108)

Sun Dec 16, 2012, 11:33 AM

132. You know what is scary.

That many many times when these type of tragedies happen, we don't know that the murderer is a paranoid psychotic until it's too late.Then when the families of these murderers are questioned then they say oh yea he was crazy he had issues he was angry he this or that.But when asked if they took intervention for this person its likely no or they never thought he would do something like this.sad but true.

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Response to SummerSnow (Reply #132)

Sun Dec 16, 2012, 12:56 PM

149. Going by what's been aired so far, mom and neighbors knew Adam had a problem of some sort.

We don't really know who knew exactly what and probably never will. It is very sad that she and the others had to die in that manner.

Stockpiling weapons helps no one at any time. Possibly this could have been avoided if the gun culture wasn't strong in the home.

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Response to obamanut2012 (Reply #107)

Sun Dec 16, 2012, 12:51 PM

148. Thank You!

She is a victim!! We do not know all the details yet. Lt. Lance (I think that is correct) has not released details of the investigation. It is still ongoing. Until he comes forward and states who, what, and where' I will hold my opinions on why she had guns. But she is still a victim along with all the other victims.

I have read and read and read on DU in the past that we do not blame the victims. That is what Republicans do. Not us. Yet this thread, starting with the original post is so sick.

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Response to we can do it (Reply #105)

Sun Dec 16, 2012, 02:59 PM

175. And she had plenty of money to get medical care for her son! nt

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Response to politicaljunkie41910 (Reply #31)

Sat Dec 15, 2012, 10:54 PM

100. Getting murdered so her ex doesn't have to pay alimony is "poetic justice"

wtf

Nancy Lanza getting murdered, even by her own guns, is not any kind of justice. WTF is wrong with this board? The children and adults murdered was horrific, but does not give people a free pass to slander the victims. I didn't read all day because of how people were being nasty about Ryan Lanza, a VICTIM. Nancy Lanza was also a VICTIM, regardless if she was a gun owner lax in keeping her guns locked up.

Throwing in the bit about her alimony is just appalling.

JFC.

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Response to obamanut2012 (Reply #100)

Sun Dec 16, 2012, 11:25 AM

126. +1,000,000,000 x 1,000,000,000 - Well put and definitely

 

needed saying. Please consider fashioning these sentiments into a separate OP. DU needs to be better than blaming victims.

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Response to obamanut2012 (Reply #100)

Sun Dec 16, 2012, 11:27 AM

129. Her negligence caused the death of two dozen people

It is facially true that she failed to secure her guns against use by an unauthorized third party.

Her guns didn't just spirit themselves into someone else's hands.

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Response to jberryhill (Reply #129)

Sun Dec 16, 2012, 01:41 PM

160. she also failed to get help for her son, who she had to know needed help. eom

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Response to ellenfl (Reply #160)

Sun Dec 16, 2012, 02:41 PM

169. Do we know this for sure?

I'm not defending Nancy Lanza, but do we know for sure she never tried to get her son help? Having worked in the field of mental health I know it's impossible to force someone of legal age to get help if they refuse. The only way a court order works is if the individual proves a threat to himself or others so unfortunately something bad has to happen first.

Not only is it time to discuss our current gun laws, but a discussion on mental health services is forthcoming.

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Response to vankuria (Reply #169)

Sun Dec 16, 2012, 03:17 PM

180. he was 20... which means his issues didn't spring up in the last two years

they've probably been developing during his minor years as his brain was growing, when he was under the legal age to decide for himself.

The discussion on mental health needs to be at the forefront right now.

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Response to SemperEadem (Reply #180)

Sun Dec 16, 2012, 05:03 PM

191. Very true

I understand his problems didn't just start. What I'm saying is we don't know do we, if his Mom tried to get help for him. If she did or didn't, once a kid is 18 there isn't much a parent can do. Also, the current mental health system is inadequate and very frustrating for any parent out there trying to get their kid diagnosed and treated.

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Response to ellenfl (Reply #160)

Sun Dec 16, 2012, 03:13 PM

179. She may have bought the guns for the kid,

about a mile and a half from me is a neighbor that showed me a Glock 9 mm pistol that she and her husband had bought for her 11 year old son, he was shooting it when I drove up. I told her father that his daughter was a red neck nut. You don't buy a pistol for a kid.

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Response to obamanut2012 (Reply #100)

Sun Dec 16, 2012, 01:11 PM

151. Your defense of this woman is bizarre.

She was a gun nut who knew she had a kid with mental problems living in the home. She didn't secure her high-powered assault riffle and handguns. Now 20 babies and 4 adults are dead because of her.

You don't like this talk? You are going to HATE the wrongful death claims against her estate that are no doubt being drafted as we speak.

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Response to Lex (Reply #1)

Sat Dec 15, 2012, 07:38 PM

76. Every gun owner is a "responsible", trained, gun owner, ask the NRA.

 

do I need this?

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Response to xtraxritical (Reply #76)

Sun Dec 16, 2012, 12:57 PM

150. sad thing is many are

the NRA seems more interested in organizing and defending the ones who aren't

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Response to Lex (Reply #1)

Sun Dec 16, 2012, 12:05 AM

111. And, most illogical.

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Response to Lex (Reply #1)

Sun Dec 16, 2012, 11:36 AM

134. wonder if the mother could have had mental issues too

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Response to Warren Stupidity (Original post)

Sat Dec 15, 2012, 04:21 PM

2. At some point, the despairing strike out at the font of their despair. nt

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Response to Warren Stupidity (Original post)

Sat Dec 15, 2012, 04:22 PM

4. "mom"?

Insulting a murder victim isn't enough, you won't give grant her motherhood in your judgement?

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Response to Union Scribe (Reply #4)

Sat Dec 15, 2012, 04:24 PM

6. Mom.

And thanks for illustrating my point regarding deflection

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Response to Warren Stupidity (Original post)

Sat Dec 15, 2012, 04:25 PM

7. The gun culture in this country is absolutely the problem

Driven by Faux News, the NRA, etc., telling everyone "they're going to take your guns away" and with them, your rights and freedoms.

There must be accountability, and people who promote these lies must be held responsible for the actions their lies cause. We have freedom of speech, but that doesn't mean you can stand up in a dark, crowded theatre and yell "fire" when there is none without being held responsible for any injuries caused in the frenzy to get out.

Rush Limbaugh, and all the other hate jocks have a role in this as well. Words have to be chosen carefully when you're in a position to influence thousands of people, and so far there has been little accountability for lies being spoken as the truth.

People like this mother listen to this garbage and believe it, then teach it to their children and tell others as if it were true. The right wing, NRA, hate jocks, Faux News, etc. all have a heavy hand in the tragic events of yesterday. They should not be allowed to get away with it.

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Response to AndyA (Reply #7)

Sat Dec 15, 2012, 07:31 PM

73. +1 you speak truth. n/t

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Response to AndyA (Reply #7)

Sat Dec 15, 2012, 10:57 PM

102. Yes. Limbaugh and his ilk have been stoking the paranoia for well over 20 years.

Enough is enough. This isn't what the Founders meant by freedom of speech. And when they wrote the 2nd Amendment they were talking about using muskets against Redcoats.

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Response to AndyA (Reply #7)

Sun Dec 16, 2012, 11:38 AM

135. Time to watch "Bowling for Columbine" again.

Nothing has changed except the paranoia has gotten worse.

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Response to Warren Stupidity (Original post)

Sat Dec 15, 2012, 04:29 PM

9. So, how culpable was she? Accessory before the fact?

She's already paid the ultimate penalty for her stupidity, at any rate.


“Put your sword back in its place, for all who draw the sword will die by the sword."

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Response to LiberalAndProud (Reply #9)

Sat Dec 15, 2012, 04:56 PM

16. IF a person with mental problems had access to or lived in her home and IF

she failed to keep her guns locked up, she is highly culpable and quite stupid. Or was. She appears to have paid the ultimate price for her stupidity if that's the case.

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Response to Warren Stupidity (Original post)

Sat Dec 15, 2012, 04:30 PM

10. I miss unrec. eom

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Response to uppityperson (Reply #10)

Sat Dec 15, 2012, 05:58 PM

29. You would.

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Response to Warren Stupidity (Original post)

Sat Dec 15, 2012, 04:30 PM

11. gun nut for sure, but survivalist? Nothing I've read indicates that.

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Response to cali (Reply #11)

Sat Dec 15, 2012, 05:21 PM

19. here

Nancy Lanza is being described by a family member as a "survivalist," and someone who owned a collection of guns


http://video.msnbc.msn.com/msnbc/50209477/#50209477

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Response to riverwalker (Reply #19)

Sat Dec 15, 2012, 07:23 PM

71. A survivalist relying on a quarter mil alimony?

Sounds just like the perfect teabagger who would have voted among the 47% for Romney.

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Response to adieu (Reply #71)

Sun Dec 16, 2012, 12:03 PM

142. Dispicable vs. Irrelevant.

Which one is this post more of?

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Response to cali (Reply #11)

Sat Dec 15, 2012, 06:53 PM

62. Pure unsubstantiated hyperbole

 

There is no information at present to indicate that she was a "survivalist."

I would like to know the family's political affiliation. Not that it matters, but I'm curious nonetheless.

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Response to Warren Stupidity (Original post)

Sat Dec 15, 2012, 04:34 PM

12. I place some of the blame here.

Over and over again, I keep reminding some of the gun nuts that I know- this gun nut/"responsible gun owner" got killed by her own weapons. Her kid didn't learn it from video games etc, he learned it from her.
According to some reports she seemed to be proud of her collection esp the long gun-which right there, to me, is a mental illness.
This whole thing sickens me.

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Response to Warren Stupidity (Original post)

Sat Dec 15, 2012, 04:35 PM

14. This is NOT what her friends and neighbors are saying in their village.

But if you want to crucify her that is as much your right as it was her son's to shoot her.

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Response to Coyotl (Reply #14)

Sat Dec 15, 2012, 06:28 PM

49. That's a poor analogy as her son had no "right" to shoot her or anyone else.

Inferring that someone making a statement regarding their understanding of data regarding this horrific event is the equivalent of the dastardly and criminal actions of this man is a very cheap shot.

Unless of course you forgot to add the sarcasm tag, in which case I would withdraw my rebuke.

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Response to bluesbassman (Reply #49)

Sat Dec 15, 2012, 08:57 PM

84. Exactly my point. Who are you to say these things about her?

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Response to Coyotl (Reply #84)

Sat Dec 15, 2012, 09:42 PM

88. Well I get your point, as you made it in the previous post.

I hope you're referring to "you" in the generic sense as I did not make the statements in the OP, and I don't necassarily subscribe to them.

My point is that while you specifically can disagree with what the OP said, putting it on the level of what this sick individual did is speech supression. It makes it seem as though your issue is not with the substance of what's being discussed, but rather the delivery. Is that more along the lines of where you're coming from?

You do realize that every aspect of this family will be examined and discussed. The mere fact that she had so many powerful weapons in her home will be a source of speculation and debate, and rightly so.

FWIW, I can see a single mother owning a handgun or even a shotgun for home defense, but a Bushmaster is a pretty poor choice for that purpose. It may just be that she was a shooting enthusiast (many women are), but given what happened it seems pretty reasonable to me that people would want to know more details about that issue in order to try to get some explanation and sense out of all of this.

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Response to Warren Stupidity (Original post)

Sat Dec 15, 2012, 04:40 PM

15. Why is it important for you to label the victim??

Gun Nut

Survivalist whack job

Gun Nuttery

Are you doing that to further your view point??

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Response to Saboburns (Reply #15)

Sat Dec 15, 2012, 04:57 PM

17. Because these kinds of things do not materialize out of thin air

People do not "snap" and perform a mass shooting. There's many small steps over weeks, months or years.

One of the steps in this incident is where the shooter got his guns and his firearms training, as well as his teaching that guns solve problems.

Ignoring the mother's contribution out of some sort of "respect for the dead" is dumb. We have to find out how this kid got to this state, so that we can try to prevent the next kid from reaching that same state. That means analyzing the fuck out of his mother's actions over the last decade or so.

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Response to jeff47 (Reply #17)

Sun Dec 16, 2012, 11:55 AM

138. I agree with you

I find that I'm most angry at this mother. If you have a child who's not functioning well, you don't have him practice teetering on the edges of bridges, playing in traffic, overdosing on drugs, OR living with guns. This gun culture is just plain crazy and paranoid. Let's just call it what it is.

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Response to Saboburns (Reply #15)

Sat Dec 15, 2012, 06:51 PM

60. It's code...just like "thug" or "goblin" means African American.

 


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Response to pop topcan (Reply #60)

Sat Dec 15, 2012, 10:59 PM

103. Except COMPLETELY NOT.

What the hell are you talking about? Wander into the wrong website?

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Response to Chorophyll (Reply #103)

Sun Dec 16, 2012, 01:21 PM

152. No. He probably spent some time in our gungeon...

... where the terms "thug" and "goblin" are thrown around by our "pro-gun progressives"* with a nudge and a wink.

Anyone who has spent any time around right-wing racist pigs knows EXACTLY what they are implying.

It's like "welfare queen".


(* )

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Response to Hassin Bin Sober (Reply #152)

Sun Dec 16, 2012, 01:30 PM

155. I admit I've never been to the gungeon and frankly don't even know where it is

so I can't speak about that group or the DUers who frequent it with any authority. It certainly doesn't fit with my experience of DU on tons of other forums!

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Response to Hassin Bin Sober (Reply #152)

Sun Dec 16, 2012, 02:02 PM

166. I've trashed the Gungeon on the advice of a brilliant DUer (I forget whom, sorry!) But

they keep crawling into GD like vermin.

(And when I say "vermin," I mean vermin.)

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Response to Hassin Bin Sober (Reply #152)

Mon Dec 17, 2012, 06:14 PM

208. Yes, it is also like "welfare queen"...which is precisely the point I was making. Didn't you grasp

 

that? How odd. And yes, right-wing racist pigs know EXACTLY what they mean just as porcine members of other quadrants and species know what is implied by the code I identified.




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Response to pop topcan (Reply #208)

Mon Dec 17, 2012, 06:20 PM

210. I was agreeing with you and expanding the point. I thought the other poster wasn't.

Now I am confused.

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Response to Chorophyll (Reply #103)

Sun Dec 16, 2012, 05:38 PM

194. Sorry, your lack of reading comprehension is not something I can fix.

 

...

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Response to pop topcan (Reply #194)

Sun Dec 16, 2012, 08:10 PM

196. That's very cute.

Okay then. See ya.

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Response to pop topcan (Reply #60)

Sun Dec 16, 2012, 01:28 PM

154. Um.....maybe on some other boards you've been on but not on this board!

It most certainly does NOT refer to African American. Frankly, it's more likely to refer to a white guy who hates having an African American president, is freaked out that "his" white race is soon to be the minority in this country and has armed himself to the teeth with every kind of whacko automatic weapon he can get his hands on.

You're seriously on the wrong board if you think that's what it means here. Best to spend some time reading all kinds of threads around here to get a better idea of what DU is all about.

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Response to pop topcan (Reply #60)

Sun Dec 16, 2012, 03:07 PM

177. There is no code involved. A gun nut is a person who needs, wants and loves their guns.

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Response to pop topcan (Reply #60)


Response to Saboburns (Reply #15)

Sun Dec 16, 2012, 03:57 PM

183. Victim? How about accessory?

Do you feel as bad for the shooter as you do for the one who supplied him with the guns?

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Response to Warren Stupidity (Original post)

Sat Dec 15, 2012, 05:06 PM

18. Last night, as soon as I heard about the assault rifle I said to my wife....

she was a winger and my wife got mad at me for jumping to conclusions.
I shouldn't have said that and judged so quickly, it's just that things started to fall into a pattern. It also struck me as a dysfunctional family when I heard that the other son hadn't spoken to his brother for two years. I don't get stuff like that and it paints a picture. Thee is much more to this family dynamic.
For now I am withholding judgement until I know more.

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Response to Bonhomme Richard (Reply #18)

Sat Dec 15, 2012, 05:55 PM

26. My first thoughts too.

And if I had a million dollars to bet, I'd bet a million dollars that she (and perhaps he) were also "pro-life." If the victims were fetuses, maybe there would be less resistance to putting the 2nd amendment into a 21st century perspective. But dear lord, what a sad, sad day.

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Response to Warren Stupidity (Original post)

Sat Dec 15, 2012, 05:24 PM

20. I'm a vet, not a member of the NRA, don't own any guns,....

...and I've voted for a Democratic Party candidate for President since 1972. I also believe we have to somehow modify or change the 2nd Amendment to make it much harder, if not impossible, for guns to be as easily obtained as they are today.

But, having stated all that, I'm willing to wait until we know a lot more than we do now before I make any early conclusions about the shooter's family.

Just my opinion.

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Response to OldDem2012 (Reply #20)

Sun Dec 16, 2012, 01:33 PM

156. Being an outsider (Canadian) looking in...

...it would seem your second amendment did not anticipate the U.S. having a large standing military force, hence the reference to a well-regulated militia. At the time of the second amendment, when Great Britain was still a dangerous opponent with access to your whole northern border, having people able to arm themselves quickly to defend the homeland made sense. It doesn't now.

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Response to OnlinePoker (Reply #156)

Sun Dec 16, 2012, 02:09 PM

168. Well said.

Excellent point.

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Response to Warren Stupidity (Original post)

Sat Dec 15, 2012, 05:45 PM

21. Meh. There will be lots of gnashing of teeth and beating of breast, nothing will change

In six months we will have another rampage killing.

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Response to Katashi_itto (Reply #21)

Sat Dec 15, 2012, 05:51 PM

23. Unfortunately, you are probably correct

This country is all about violence. And that's just a shame.

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Response to Bluzmann57 (Reply #23)

Sat Dec 15, 2012, 05:55 PM

24. We are a nation of sheep. Willing to have Wolves" cull" the herd, so we can keep our guns

It's as simple as that. The 7th this year and they are already calling it an "isolated" incident.

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Response to Katashi_itto (Reply #21)

Sat Dec 15, 2012, 11:01 PM

106. In six months? We've had two this week!

But go ahead and be defeatist. Why even post on a political website with that attitude?

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Response to Chorophyll (Reply #106)

Sun Dec 16, 2012, 01:31 AM

113. So I dont have a right to post whats actually going to happen?

Your right, six months was to much. guess I was to optimistic.

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Response to Katashi_itto (Reply #113)

Sun Dec 16, 2012, 12:13 PM

144. You have the right to post whatever you want.

20 kids aged 6 and 7 might wish you would be less complacent, though.

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Response to Chorophyll (Reply #144)

Sun Dec 16, 2012, 02:55 PM

173. Why shouldn't I be? Not like the response isn't anything more than Kabuki theater

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Response to Katashi_itto (Reply #173)

Sun Dec 16, 2012, 04:13 PM

186. If everyone was like you, there would have been no civil rights movement

No women's rights movement

No gay rights movement

No Affordable Health Care act (hell, no medicare, no social security, etc.)

No African-American president.

Fortunately, everyone is not like you.

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Response to Chorophyll (Reply #186)

Sun Dec 16, 2012, 08:08 PM

195. Hehe, spoken with such certitude ...

"Never be certain of anything. It's a sign of weakness"
-Dr Who

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Response to Katashi_itto (Reply #195)

Sun Dec 16, 2012, 08:11 PM

197. Please quote Dr. Who at me some more. It's such an effective argument. nt

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Response to Chorophyll (Reply #197)

Sun Dec 16, 2012, 10:58 PM

201. I never bother to argue with someone who is so certain of their views.

But here's another quote. Since you asked.

"You know, you're a classic example of the inverse ratio between the size of the mouth and the size of the brain." ~The Fourth Doctor

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Response to Katashi_itto (Reply #201)

Sun Dec 16, 2012, 11:07 PM

202. You're gonna have a hell of a time talking to people here at DU if you don't like

people who are certain of their views.

I'll ignore ad hominem remark delivered via "The Fourth Doctor." Next time, I'll alert.

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Response to Chorophyll (Reply #202)

Sun Dec 16, 2012, 11:13 PM

203. Touchy aren't we?

I seem to have no problems on DU.

However with you, meh. Considering your statement about me was an ad hominem itself.

I see it's ok to make judgmental statements about people when you do it. Heaven forbid someone responds. In which case you have to crawl off and scream for help.

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Response to Warren Stupidity (Original post)

Sat Dec 15, 2012, 05:55 PM

25. And what about "dad"?

He did have two parents, right?

I guess only "mom" gets blamed. If "dad" did anything bad, I'm sure it was somehow her fault as well.

Right?

Do we even know for a fact the guns weren't locked up? Based on what I'm reading here she does sound like a gun nut, but both parents knew about junior's mental issues, and if "mom" is a gun nut, I'd personally be wondering why "dad" didn't do more than fade into the background.

Lucky for him, people love blaming moms.

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Response to redqueen (Reply #25)

Sat Dec 15, 2012, 06:27 PM

48. The parents were divorced as of 2009.

That doesnt absolve "Dad" of any and all responsibility, but he wasnt living in the house here the guns apparently were.

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Response to redqueen (Reply #25)

Sun Dec 16, 2012, 01:25 PM

153. You are right.

Every woman needs a man to help her secure her guns.

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Response to Hassin Bin Sober (Reply #153)

Sun Dec 16, 2012, 01:42 PM

162. No, every child has two parents. And dads should not get a pass on parenting.

They do, but they shouldn't.

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Response to redqueen (Reply #162)

Sun Dec 16, 2012, 01:54 PM

163. Dad shouldn't get a pass on coming over to her house and locking up her guns for her either.

It's a manly job.

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Response to Hassin Bin Sober (Reply #163)

Sun Dec 16, 2012, 01:57 PM

164. Cite the evidence that they weren't locked up.

Not speculation, not conjecture. Evidence.

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Response to redqueen (Reply #164)

Sun Dec 16, 2012, 02:42 PM

170. Um. They made it out of the house to kill 20 kids and 4 adults????

That good enough for you?

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Response to Hassin Bin Sober (Reply #170)

Sun Dec 16, 2012, 03:47 PM

182. So sadly unsurprising. nt

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Response to redqueen (Reply #182)

Sun Dec 16, 2012, 04:42 PM

189. Derp

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Response to Hassin Bin Sober (Reply #170)

Wed Dec 19, 2012, 08:29 AM

215. so you're saying that

there isn't a chance that she had been responsible in regards to locking up her weapons but he managed to get a hold of the key somehow?

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Response to redqueen (Reply #25)

Mon Dec 17, 2012, 07:25 AM

204. I'm not absolving him, but this kid lived with his gun nut survivalist mom.

She directly enabled this tragedy, not him.

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Response to Warren Stupidity (Original post)

Sat Dec 15, 2012, 05:58 PM

27. This goes to show it doesn't really matter whether the guns are "locked up"...


If you have a nutjob in the house that wants to get them, he/she will....

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Response to reformist2 (Reply #27)


Response to Warren Stupidity (Original post)

Sat Dec 15, 2012, 05:58 PM

28. Think she feels safe now?

A gun is 50 times more likely to be used against you. For every one criminal stopped with a gun, 50 innocent Americans are killed.

No more guns. No more fucking gun nuts.

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Response to Zoeisright (Reply #28)

Sat Dec 15, 2012, 06:08 PM

36. Your headline is offensive and negates the rest of what you say

 

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Response to SajayHobbs (Reply #36)

Sat Dec 15, 2012, 06:34 PM

53. The problem is too many guns. If you deny that then *YOU* are part of the problem.

A big chunk of the responsibility for yesterday's massacre belongs with the people who promote America's murderous & insane culture of violence.

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Response to SajayHobbs (Reply #36)

Sat Dec 15, 2012, 06:38 PM

56. Nope. I like the headline.

The only thing offensive is this woman allowed access to guns that destroyed so many. Too bad she's not here to see the pain and horror her crap decisions caused

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Response to SajayHobbs (Reply #36)

Sun Dec 16, 2012, 12:10 PM

143. No, his headline is NOT offensive.

His headline strikes at the absolute truth underlying the NRA's encyclopedia of lies...that owning guns did not keep this woman safe. In fact, she fit the statistics perfectly: she or her family were more likely to be killed with their own guns than they were to be used as defense or protection.

This woman's death completely undercuts the NRA's arguments.

Owning guns do not keep you safe. Period.

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Response to Warren Stupidity (Original post)

Sat Dec 15, 2012, 05:59 PM

30. Sounds like a Glenn Beckerite

Wonder if they found any of his "books" around.

Her sister-in-law said she was stockpiling things due to fear of the future of the economy in an interview earlier on MSNBC (or perhaps CNN, been switching back and forth.)

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Response to elfin (Reply #30)

Sat Dec 15, 2012, 06:24 PM

44. This in itself makes her sound crazy from the get-go. Her ex, in an amicable divorce, agrees

to send her MORE $$$ than his lawyer says is her due, and she fears "the future of the economy"? When she's got a couple hundred thou coming in until the day she dies? How fucking crazy is that????

If that sister-in-law's comment is correct, she was following nonsensical 'advice' from the usual hucksters like Beck, Limbaugh, etc., IN THE FACE OF a guaranteed income for life! She was the definition of a whack job.

I also feel she was in denial about her son's problems, and may have divorced her husband over his efforts to get her to see that the kid was seriously ill. Hubby, knowing the problems, made sure she and he were never hurting for money and prob still tried to get the kid into help, but prob was scared of the kid. The brother, seeing that even his dad had no luck, was prob scared of his brother as well and refused to see him. Can't say I blame the dad or the brother. Of course, I am speculating.

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Response to Nay (Reply #44)

Sat Dec 15, 2012, 06:41 PM

57. ^^^^^^^

 

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Response to Nay (Reply #44)

Sat Dec 15, 2012, 06:52 PM

61. Lots of conjecture there.

Plenty of rich people throw money at problems which they'd rather not get their hands dirty actually working on themselves.

"Probably."

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Response to redqueen (Reply #61)

Sat Dec 15, 2012, 08:05 PM

80. Yes, there is -- that's why I said "I am just speculating." I don't want anyone to think that my

post is anything but my own mental noodling about how this horrible shooting came to pass.

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Response to Nay (Reply #44)

Sat Dec 15, 2012, 09:39 PM

87. That's how I suspect this will play out as well.nt

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Response to Nay (Reply #44)

Sun Dec 16, 2012, 03:26 PM

181. YEAH! A lot of speculation.

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Response to Nay (Reply #44)

Mon Dec 17, 2012, 11:43 AM

207. And, per this morning's article in my paper....

 

She liked to down a few at the local watering hole about 3 times a week

Guns and alcohol, they just don't mix.

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Response to Warren Stupidity (Original post)

Sat Dec 15, 2012, 06:01 PM

32. We had guns in my house growing up

They were locked in the gun closet my dad built for them. We would shoot skeet (well, dad and his pals would) and targets posted on trees. Never in my life did I consider breaking the lock on the closet. My dad also had me take gun safety classes which was an excellent way to train me to respect the gun.

That said, I haven't been near a firearm since Ford was in office. I don't opposed the ownership of most guns, but all these fucking assault rifles and what not have got to go. There is no reason for the average citizen to need a weapon that is generally reserved for wars. Letting that ban on ARs lapse under W was just another example of the power the NRA has over these congress critters.

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Response to Warren Stupidity (Original post)

Sat Dec 15, 2012, 06:07 PM

35. Where are the links to the articles stating all this?

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Response to Roland99 (Reply #35)

Sat Dec 15, 2012, 06:14 PM

41. What do you know about her?

 

Is this what you do now? Throw out blind allegations?

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Response to Herlong (Reply #41)

Sat Dec 15, 2012, 08:20 PM

82. um, what? I didn't make ANY allegations. I just asked a question!

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Response to Roland99 (Reply #35)

Sat Dec 15, 2012, 06:57 PM

67. I heard the information on MSNBC this morning.

The sister-in-law from (North Carolina, I think?) had made comments to local press about how the mother was a gun enthusiast and also a survivalist type, along the lines of some of the Doomsday Preppers out there. It's been stated that she was convinced that there was an imminent economic disaster on the horizon.

No article links, just exactly what was said on tv.

http://video.msnbc.msn.com/msnbc/50209477/

(on a google search it pops up numerous times. More are commenting about her now.)

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Response to xmas74 (Reply #67)

Sat Dec 15, 2012, 08:21 PM

83. Oh geez...sounds like a Beckian or Limbot.

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Response to Warren Stupidity (Original post)

Sat Dec 15, 2012, 06:09 PM

37. If people like to sport shoot and do that sport shooting at special sport shooting places,

why can the guns they use stay at the sport shooting places?

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Response to Warren Stupidity (Original post)

Sat Dec 15, 2012, 06:10 PM

38. This woman knew her son had mental health issues why in the world did she teach him

 

to fire guns? I just don't understand it. It goes to show you even in families that are supposedly normal they have disfunctional family members. Why didn't the other family members tell her to stop. This could have been preventable if she never taught him to shoot guns.

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Response to Warren Stupidity (Original post)

Sat Dec 15, 2012, 06:11 PM

39. Gun animals

It's not cultured behavior, imo.

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Response to Warren Stupidity (Original post)

Sat Dec 15, 2012, 06:20 PM

42. She will probably be Focus on The Family mother of the year.

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Response to Warren Stupidity (Original post)

Sat Dec 15, 2012, 06:20 PM

43. Any Citations to prove this

I haven't heard much today.
I went for a long walk and then have been visiting friends today to "touch base" with those I care about.

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Response to Flatpicker (Reply #43)

Sat Dec 15, 2012, 06:43 PM

59. Her sister (Lanza's aunt) said this. It was broadcasted on MSNBC all day today. n/t

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Response to xmas74 (Reply #68)

Sat Dec 15, 2012, 07:35 PM

74. Thanks

I needed to get away for awhile.

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Response to Flatpicker (Reply #74)

Sun Dec 16, 2012, 02:43 PM

171. Not a problem.

More of us should take a break from this. It's just too much.

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Response to Warren Stupidity (Original post)

Sat Dec 15, 2012, 06:25 PM

45. Color me shocked.

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Response to Warren Stupidity (Original post)

Sat Dec 15, 2012, 06:31 PM

51. Anytime someone says they are 'passionate' about their guns

I want nothing to do with them. Passionate about a chunk of metal whose only reason for existence is to kill? Sorry, I have nothing in common with such a person

And this person's passion came back to bite her head off and destroy the lives of so many. I have nothing but loathing disgust for her.

Too bad she's not here to feel the pain and see the horror her passion caused

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Response to Warren Stupidity (Original post)

Sat Dec 15, 2012, 06:31 PM

52. Mother probably felt having an assault weapon somehow made her safer

just saying...

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Response to LynneSin (Reply #52)

Sat Dec 15, 2012, 06:42 PM

58. Too bad she didn't seek

therapy instead

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Response to Warren Stupidity (Original post)

Sat Dec 15, 2012, 06:53 PM

63. Did this mother fight against her son being

classified as needing services? Nothing a school can do with that if parents don't agree to it. I fought the schools to GET my kids the disability services they needed. Far too many parents are in denial and today the schools accommodate that for monetary issues.

Sorry, but I think this mother failed her son, society, and unfortunately, resulted in dead children and teachers. The worst of this, unlike the MAJORITY of parents, this mother was a gun fanactic which has serious consequences.

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Response to Warren Stupidity (Original post)

Sat Dec 15, 2012, 06:54 PM

64. She sure was a gun nut but it is possible that he killed her

to access the weapons

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Response to malaise (Reply #64)

Sat Dec 15, 2012, 07:08 PM

70. He killed his mother with one of her guns, so he had access.

Shot her in the face. If it's true that he had an altercation at the school on Thursday, then he was planning this thing. That would prove it wasn't a snap, but a sick plot.

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Response to Warren Stupidity (Original post)

Sat Dec 15, 2012, 07:04 PM

69. The guns were bought for protection I just heard.

Do you need a damned arsenal for home protection? I agree that it was a mistake to have those firearms around a mentally disturbed person. Then again her son could have forced her to unlock them? I don't know.

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Response to Third Doctor (Reply #69)

Sat Dec 15, 2012, 11:45 PM

110. He shot his mother in the face while she slept.

He accessed them without her knowledge apparently.

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Response to Warren Stupidity (Original post)

Sat Dec 15, 2012, 07:26 PM

72. Sorry to say,

 

You live by the gun, you die by the gun. as this woman, Nancy Lanza did, I'm still angry about the innocent children and adults this "gun enthusiast" AKA gun nut assisted in murdering. I read elsewhere that this woman taught her sons to shoot guns at ranges. The damned NRA has the blood of these innocent 6-7 year old children plus the adults who tried to protect them in their bloody hands.

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Response to Warren Stupidity (Original post)

Sat Dec 15, 2012, 07:36 PM

75. The mom that people love to hate.

As soon as we find out that she was a gun nut and a survivalist, all the ammo is unleashed on her.

In this thread alone, she is accused of blocking services for her son, teaching him how to shoot, leaving guns unlocked, failing to get mental health care for her son, worshiping her guns, in denial about her son's problems, failing to seek therapy for herself, having a dysfunctional family, and failing her son.

She is being called dumb, mentally ill (because she was proud of her gun collection), angry, crazy, and a whack job.

This is all conjecture, and is unfair to a woman who is dead by the hands of her son.

Until shown information to the contrary, I am going to assume that she was a typical mother, who loved her son, and actively worked to get him help. I am also going to be open to the possibility that the guns were locked up, and that he found a way to access them either against her will or without her knowledge.

Too often the parents - really more the mothers - of mass murderers are skewered by a critical public.

This could happen to any of us.

There but for the grace of the gods go I.

Edited to add: Now she is said to have assisted in the mass murder because she owned these guns.

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Response to Chemisse (Reply #75)

Sat Dec 15, 2012, 10:18 PM

91. I never thought this place was like this

This thread makes me ashamed.

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Response to Chemisse (Reply #75)

Sat Dec 15, 2012, 10:47 PM

96. I don't knee-jerk blame mothers,

but this one..yes. She chose to keep guns in a house with her mentally ill son. Let that sink in for a minute...she knew he was mentally ill - from what I've read his brother was open about that - and she chose to keep weapons in the same house.

If her husband still lived there, I would blame him too.

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Response to kiva (Reply #96)

Sun Dec 16, 2012, 07:28 AM

114. That was my first reaction when I heard about the guns

But the way people are running her over the coals for so many other reasons is just wrong.

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Response to Chemisse (Reply #114)

Sun Dec 16, 2012, 12:17 PM

145. I agree -

there is a limit to what parents of adult children can do in this situation and I've also seen some nasty speculation about her that lacks any proof. But this is one thing she could have done and chose not to do, and for this I do blame her.

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Response to Chemisse (Reply #75)

Sat Dec 15, 2012, 10:59 PM

104. Agreed -- his brother was being snarked about this mroning

I left DU all day because of that and how people attacked me for stating Ryan Lanza was a VICTIM of his brother. As was Nancy Lanza of her son. The woman was murdered by her son, and people are saying good, she got paid too much in alimony, was a Glen Beck fan, etc.

I mean, wtf???

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Response to obamanut2012 (Reply #104)

Sun Dec 16, 2012, 07:29 AM

115. Yeah. It's sure bringing out the uglier emotions in people.

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Response to obamanut2012 (Reply #104)

Sun Dec 16, 2012, 01:41 PM

159. Maybe they're just upset about children being murdered

 

Wheras you seem more occupied with making excuses for Adam Lanza the and his complacent mother.

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Response to Floyd_Gondolli (Reply #159)

Sun Dec 16, 2012, 02:07 PM

167. wtf?

Will you show me where anyone, just one, has made excuses for the shooter?

The mother is still a victim.

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Response to Floyd_Gondolli (Reply #159)

Sun Dec 16, 2012, 04:38 PM

188. Complacent mother?

This is exactly the kind of demonization - without evidence - that I am talking about.

Oh, and please point out where anyone made excuses for the killer.

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Response to Chemisse (Reply #188)

Sun Dec 16, 2012, 05:26 PM

192. The guns were in her house

 

And in her name. She had intimate knowledge of her son's problems, and yet the guns stayed in the house.

Sad that she's dead, but to deny her role in this tragedy is to deny reality. That's obvious to anyone not so hopelessly obtuse.




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Response to Chemisse (Reply #75)

Sun Dec 16, 2012, 02:02 PM

165. You know, given the context, you might want to avoid using terms like

"all the ammo is unleashed on her" to describe nasty or negative comments on an internet thread.

Whatever "ammo was unleashed on her" was evidently used by her own family, and then unleashed on many many totally innocent people as well.

I'm not a fan of mom bashing either, but let's please keep things in perspective.

"There but for the grace of the gods" is a sentiment I too try to keep in mind. "There but for fortune" works even better for me, since it avoids the religious overtones of suggesting that divinity somehow has anything to do with an atrocity such as this.

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Response to thucythucy (Reply #165)

Sun Dec 16, 2012, 04:44 PM

190. True about the ammo comment; it was in bad taste. But

I can use whatever expression I would like, and should not have to endure criticism.

I happen to love the expression, 'There but for the grace of god go I', but I don't believe in god. So I alter it slightly to make it more palatable to me, with 'the gods' representing - in my mind - the fates or fortunes or destinies.

You, in turn, are free to alter it any way you would like.

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Response to Chemisse (Reply #190)

Sun Dec 16, 2012, 09:29 PM

198. It was only meant to be mild criticism, if that.

I understand your use of the word "ammo" wasn't intended to be disrespectful, but thought it might rub people the wrong way, given how raw emotions are right now. A few days after 9-11, on which day people I know died, a friend used the expression "coming in under the radar" and saw me wince. He didn't mean anything by it, it's just an expression people use, but coming at that particular moment it just didn't sit right.

Same with "the gods." I figured you meant, basically, there but for fortune, but again, I always wince a little when anyone comes close to suggesting that God, the Godess, or anything celestial has anything to do with something this.

Anyway, sorry if I jumped all over you. Like I say, it wasn't intended to be snark, though it probably sounded like it.

Best wishes.

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Response to Warren Stupidity (Original post)

Sat Dec 15, 2012, 07:46 PM

77. some real self righteous behavior here

lots of 'answers' and blame for people who werent there and didnt know anybody actually involved with this case.

lack of empathy and understanding for others is paramount to any other affliction this nation is facing.
selfishness, judgmental, xenophobia, insular.. afraid.
whether its a bunch of soccer moms and families living behind their gated community or a gun nut living behind their arsenal, the fear of others is corroding this society.

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Response to Warren Stupidity (Original post)

Sat Dec 15, 2012, 07:47 PM

79. Let us not overlook the irony of a survivalist bringing about her own demise. nt

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Response to Warren Stupidity (Original post)

Sat Dec 15, 2012, 09:28 PM

85. That asserts facts not in evidence

Which is nothing new for you.

What seems to be true as I write this:
- Both parents were apparently shooting enthusiasts
- Her firearms collection is not that of a gun nut nor a survivalist, not even close.
- What has been reported is does not qualify as many firearms
- Teaching your children to be safe around firearms or to shoot is a good thing for safety
- We have nothing to say that the weapons were in properly secured.

The media has been in epic fail on all of this. We can wait until there are more facts and less conjecture.

I am not sure you would recognize a real gun nut or gun culture. It would cause you delicate flowers to wilt.

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Response to ProgressiveProfessor (Reply #85)

Sun Dec 16, 2012, 10:47 AM

122. The dead cry out for justice, not NRA talking point idiocy.

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Response to Warren Stupidity (Reply #122)

Sun Dec 16, 2012, 11:15 AM

123. The situation calls out for reasoned solutions, not irrational polemics and screeds

Nothing i posted there was anywhere near a talking point for anything, except that the media has been FUBAR on this event

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Response to ProgressiveProfessor (Reply #123)

Sun Dec 16, 2012, 11:20 AM

125. You have never supported any suggestion for increased regulation of firearms.

But go ahead, propose one now.

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Response to Warren Stupidity (Reply #125)

Sun Dec 16, 2012, 11:31 AM

130. Actually I have over time

That it passed beneath your notice is not surprising

My primary focus in the debate is retaining adequate self defense options for those who need it.

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Response to ProgressiveProfessor (Reply #130)

Sun Dec 16, 2012, 11:34 AM

133. Name one new regulation you would support.

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Response to Warren Stupidity (Reply #133)

Sun Dec 16, 2012, 03:11 PM

178. I will give you much more than that

Things I support
- NICS checks or equivalent on all transactions, even private party transaction and gifts. My approach would be a Federal FOID that you would automatically get at 18yo so they are not a "firearms ownership licenses", a common objection to that approach. The check is then if the FOID is still valid for the sale to proceed.
- Limitation of pistol magazines to what fits inside the grip of the gun. Require new designs that would not support magazines that extend beneath the handle (BATF already has authority to force design changes). However, I would allow double stack magazines in things like the M-9.
- All firearms must be secured when not in use, being worn, or transported.

Somethings I have mixed feelings on:
- Mandatory owner training. It is not required to exercise any other enumerated right, but I have seen some very scary stuff over the years. Not sure what the standards should be, but I come down on the side of some training being required.
- Mandatory safety training for children. Enough for them to overcome their natural curiosity and get an adult should they find an unsecured firearm. NRA something like that now, but others could readily do that if the logo is too off putting. While some would find that more offensive that the fundies find Sex Ed, until things change, its basic safety and needs to be done. Not sure the best way, but it is clearly called for.
- Waiting periods. For someone who already has firearms, not sure what purpose they serve. For first time owners I support them.
- Better mental health reporting and supervision. Seen a number of posts on that here. Clearly some is called for, but how to do it is not clear.

There was a time I was much more pro gun control. What changed me was when my wife was part of the shelter movement after she retired. She started teaching women only classes without any sanction or insurance. Later I got deeply concerned about GLBTs being bashed and killed. T*s are getting killed in our cities and damn few seem to give a damn, including the police. That is why I continued to teach after she could not. It is why I support handguns for self defense. Its not for the rude toters, it is for those facing real threat that the police cannot abate and sometimes do not ever care about.

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Response to Warren Stupidity (Original post)

Sat Dec 15, 2012, 09:37 PM

86. The ultimate American Fetish.


We should take instruction on the British Latex Fetish.

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Response to Warren Stupidity (Original post)

Sat Dec 15, 2012, 09:53 PM

89. Mom also seems to have been in the upper 2 percent. I blame the media and their corporate bosses.

I wonder why these facts were omitted? (sorry if this seems callous, but the media had no problem making things up. like that she was a teacher, the husband was killed at home, that if teachers were armed this would have been better...etc)

Do they even know now???

And the same assholes saying Susan Rice should have known exactly what happened in Bengazzi at the time of the attack think it is just fine for them to spread uncorraborrated rumors make me sick.

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Response to Warren Stupidity (Original post)

Sat Dec 15, 2012, 10:18 PM

90. BIG surprise

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Response to Warren Stupidity (Original post)

Sat Dec 15, 2012, 10:20 PM

92. What's the documentation on her being a survivalist?

Please post links on that if you have them. Thanks.

Also, did her attitude towards guns have anything to do with end of her marriage?(we might also want to look at the question of why the son ended up with her-he was still a minor when the divorce occurred in 2009, if I've done the math correctly).

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Response to Warren Stupidity (Original post)

Sat Dec 15, 2012, 10:39 PM

95. Another attack the victim thread.

You have assumed alot considering you posted no links for all the 'facts' in your OP.

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Response to former9thward (Reply #95)

Sun Dec 16, 2012, 11:31 AM

131. Start simple - whose guns were these?

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Response to jberryhill (Reply #131)

Sun Dec 16, 2012, 12:33 PM

147. Sp far the police have not said.

Only media assumptions. Next?

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Response to former9thward (Reply #147)

Sun Dec 16, 2012, 01:34 PM

157. Connecticut Shooter Adam Lanza's Guns Were Registered To Mother Nancy Lanza: Official

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Response to Hassin Bin Sober (Reply #157)

Sun Dec 16, 2012, 01:42 PM

161. Sorry I don't believe anonymous sources.

Already there has been a ton of false and mis-information given out by anonymous sources. From your link: The official was not authorized to speak on the ongoing investigation and spoke only on condition of anonymity.

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Response to Warren Stupidity (Original post)

Sat Dec 15, 2012, 10:52 PM

97. K&R. Gun culture is the problem.

In fact, it's a disease. One which other developed nations do not have.

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Response to Warren Stupidity (Original post)

Sat Dec 15, 2012, 10:53 PM

98. Plain Stupidity.

How did you get to know this victim so well?

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Response to Warren Stupidity (Original post)


Response to Warren Stupidity (Original post)


Response to Warren Stupidity (Original post)

Sun Dec 16, 2012, 08:03 AM

116. we do not need to demopnize her, but

If the fact is established that she did not lock these guns up, and that she taught a kid known for violent outbursts to shoot, as many sources are saying, then we have every right to say she was foolish. How can people take an xbox away from a kid, yet have no problem training him to the point he can use military grade weaponry?

Yes, things can happen to anyone, but if the canard the NRA uses is "responsible gun owners" we have every right to ask how careful these folks really are. It is not an accident that in all of these shootings, guns were easy to get.

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Response to DonCoquixote (Reply #116)

Sun Dec 16, 2012, 10:43 AM

121. Consider this hypothetical: the mom wasn't killed.

Is she culpable? Not even in the slightest? Forget the slightest, she aided and abetted the slaughter.

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Response to DonCoquixote (Reply #116)


Response to Warren Stupidity (Original post)

Sun Dec 16, 2012, 09:49 AM

119. You misspelled "defecating."

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Response to Warren Stupidity (Original post)

Sun Dec 16, 2012, 10:39 AM

120. As the googler seems broken for the gun nut apologists in this thread...

http://www.examiner.com/article/a-killer-s-profile-why-adam-lanza-killed-innocent-children

http://boston.cbslocal.com/2012/12/14/newtown-school-shooting-who-is-adam-lanza/

There are your damn links.
Now come up with your next goddamned deflection, and I say that as an avowed atheist.

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Response to Warren Stupidity (Original post)

Sun Dec 16, 2012, 11:18 AM

124. Repeal the 2nd amendment

It has absolutely no place in the modern world. Children should have a right to be safe in this country, and their safety is far more important than some so called well regulated militia's right to arm themselves. I say repeal this so called right, the world has long ago changed

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Response to Axiomat (Reply #124)

Sun Dec 16, 2012, 11:25 AM

127. If we thought the fight over the ACA was tough...

 

just try that one. These gun nuts, some of them armed beyond belief, would, in my opinion, come totally unhinged.

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Response to Warren Stupidity (Original post)

Sun Dec 16, 2012, 11:47 AM

136. Nat Geo

Can't help but wonder if those damn survival shows on Nat Geo and Discovery cause a lot of this gun nuttery

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Response to Warren Stupidity (Original post)

Sun Dec 16, 2012, 11:49 AM

137. I'm at a loss...

Don't know what to add or say. Something is wrong with our country, very wrong.

It goes beyond our ridiculous inability to have an intelligent discussion on gun regulation. Beyond the fact that these powerful military weapons are available when they shouldn't be.

I don't pretend to know what it is or what is to blame. Sensationalism? Video games? Movies? Media? There is a powerful streak of violence running through our culture. We need to limit access, but we need to also deal with the underlying cultural problem we obviously have with violence.

We glorify violence then sensationalize it once it occurs in real life. Mentally ill people often manifest their illness through the culture they are a part of.

The fact that crazy people in our country so often arm themselves and go on shooting massacres is troubling. The fact that access to weapons is so ubiquitous in our country that often times shooters who before hand were clearly mentally ill (as in Arvada, Newtown, and Va Tech) got a hold of weapons is a policy failing of monumental proportions.

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Response to Warren Stupidity (Original post)

Sun Dec 16, 2012, 11:59 AM

139. Reported that she took him out of school in 10th Grade

Supposedly, because she was "unhappy" with the school. Why? Did school officials suspect something was not right with the boy? So she home schooled him instead. Something is not right here. A lot of questions. Was she trying to isolate him? Was she in denial about something?

His older brother said he hadn't talked to him much in 2 years. That would be around the time he was taken out of school.

Something was going on this family.

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Response to HockeyMom (Reply #139)

Sun Dec 16, 2012, 12:25 PM

146. Was she another "tea bag" or (?)

just asking...

the whole "behavior" of her seems to "fit" ...

the stupid... it burns... (IF that's the "case")

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Response to Warren Stupidity (Original post)

Sun Dec 16, 2012, 12:00 PM

140. How can you people even defend her?

Her son was unbalanced, yet she kept an arsenal in her home. SHE was/is part of the problem! Did she predict something like this would happen, obviously not. Yet if we had STRICT, not stricter, STRICT gun control laws in this country maybe a few of these children would be alive today. If this woman used any common sense, maybe some of these children would be alive today.

Sickened by the excuses!

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Response to horsedoc (Reply #140)

Sun Dec 16, 2012, 02:52 PM

172. Amazing, or at least it should be amazing, sadly it isn't.

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Response to Warren Stupidity (Original post)

Sun Dec 16, 2012, 01:39 PM

158. Mom's guns

We are told that being fully armed is the answer. Lanza's mom was trained and armed. It didn't do her any good.

How could a teacher shoot someone when s/he has the responsibility for getting children to safety? Is doesn't compute folks.

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Response to Warren Stupidity (Original post)

Sun Dec 16, 2012, 03:02 PM

176. Love this quote from your OP, it is so accurate:

"it is no wonder at all why our small collection of du gun enthusiasts are so busy deflecting all over this board."

Yep. Rec.

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Response to Warren Stupidity (Original post)

Sun Dec 16, 2012, 04:23 PM

187. The mentality that it is

the 1880's and a normal day involves a showdown at the OK corral.

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Response to Warren Stupidity (Original post)

Sun Dec 16, 2012, 05:33 PM

193. That's a big question- if she knew he was unhinged, and she had guns, how did he get them? nt

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Response to Warren Stupidity (Original post)

Mon Dec 17, 2012, 07:54 AM

205. As a gun owner I'm all in favor of registering guns and magazines.

I also think that gun owners should be required to have a gun safe and submit periodic inspection of their guns and their storage at their homes.

I also think gun owners should pay a yearly tax or fee based on the number and type of guns they own and the money be used to support placing armed security guards in schools.

Raising the cost and requirements to own guns is one way to start getting people to come to their senses about the amount and type of guns they own.

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Response to Ganja Ninja (Reply #205)

Mon Dec 17, 2012, 06:18 PM

209. Feel free to sacrifice your Constitutional rights as you wish, just don't expect me or 80 million

 

other Americans to do the same. "periodic inspections ...at their homes"?????????????

Are you serious????????????????

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Response to pop topcan (Reply #209)

Tue Dec 18, 2012, 07:44 AM

212. Absolutely serious and none of this would be unconstitutional.

Further more I would set the yearly tax on magazines at $1 per bullet capacity. The tax on semi-auto handguns would be around $150 per year depending on whether it's single column or double column. The tax on an assault gun would be $300 a year but I would also include a multiplier for that based on the number of compatible magazines the owner has. Guns that don't require removable magazines and are not Semi-auto would be taxed at much lower rates.

I would however offer a gun owner facing a large tax bill the option of surrendering his gun in exchange for a tax credit worth the market value of the gun.

Getting back to the constitutionality issue. We already tax guns at sale so there is really no reason we could not have a gun property tax and yearly tax inspections plus safety inspections for proper storage.

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Response to Ganja Ninja (Reply #212)

Tue Dec 18, 2012, 06:57 PM

213. You really should cut down on the Ganja...

 


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Response to pop topcan (Reply #213)

Wed Dec 19, 2012, 07:02 AM

214. You really should man up and stop pretending you're going to fight a war with the government ....

or whatever your paranoid fantasy is.

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Response to Warren Stupidity (Original post)

Mon Dec 17, 2012, 08:50 AM

206. She has survived in infamy

We will all make some kind of mark before before we leave this world, some will just be more indelible than others

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Response to Warren Stupidity (Original post)

Mon Dec 17, 2012, 06:28 PM

211. People are in pain

and some are even changing their ideology on gun control. Continuing to use insulting rhetoric doesn't make it easy for people to admit they were wrong and to change. Not to mention that name calling is juvenile.

Most of the time any change people make comes from some kind of pain - like "hitting rock bottom". That's where a lot of anti-gun control people seem to be right now. Why not use logic, reason and a soft word to help aid them in making that change instead of slurs, denigration and hate?

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