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Sat Dec 15, 2012, 08:14 AM

Is today's hyperviolent male culture a reaction against perceived gay culture?

At the risk of stereotyping, I think it goes without saying that today's typical straight male teenager does not go for romantic comedies, dance music or anything that could be perceived as happy, silly, or dare I say "girly." This wasn't always the case. Go (way) back to the 1940s. Sure, most men liked Westerns, but most were perfectly happy going to musicals as well. There was no stigma. Today's straight male grows up in a world where there is tremendous peer-pressure against such things, so as not to look "gay." And so the types of entertainment that are "permissible" for the typical straight male teenager becomes incredibly constricted - to only that which is obviously tough, brutish, or violent, but always unmistakably masculine. I can't help but think this constricts their development as individuals.

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Reply Is today's hyperviolent male culture a reaction against perceived gay culture? (Original post)
reformist2 Dec 2012 OP
LiberalLoner Dec 2012 #1
ck4829 Dec 2012 #2
badhair77 Dec 2012 #8
muriel_volestrangler Dec 2012 #11
LisaLynne Dec 2012 #18
Fortinbras Armstrong Dec 2012 #3
reformist2 Dec 2012 #15
Fortinbras Armstrong Dec 2012 #22
marmar Dec 2012 #4
Quantess Dec 2012 #5
Fumesucker Dec 2012 #6
muriel_volestrangler Dec 2012 #7
reformist2 Dec 2012 #10
Shivering Jemmy Dec 2012 #19
cali Dec 2012 #9
reformist2 Dec 2012 #12
teenagebambam Dec 2012 #13
reformist2 Dec 2012 #14
Shivering Jemmy Dec 2012 #20
Starry Messenger Dec 2012 #16
cthulu2016 Dec 2012 #17
Edweird Dec 2012 #21
Lightbulb_on Dec 2012 #23
BrentWil Dec 2012 #24

Response to reformist2 (Original post)

Sat Dec 15, 2012, 08:29 AM

1. Then the problem as you see it is

Homophobia and underlying all of that is the denigration of all things female.

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Response to reformist2 (Original post)

Sat Dec 15, 2012, 08:38 AM

2. I think it's key

A prime example would be emotions and emotional expression. It's "not manly" or it's "feminine" to express one's emotions. When you're bottling all your emotions up, especially the things that make you sad, angry, or disappointed in yourself and in others, it's only going to lead to rage I think.

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Response to ck4829 (Reply #2)

Sat Dec 15, 2012, 09:02 AM

8. This is an important point. nt

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Response to ck4829 (Reply #2)

Sat Dec 15, 2012, 09:06 AM

11. Bottling up emotions is not something new for American men

It's been the tradition for centuries. A few immigrant cultures get singled out for being 'emotional' - Italian? - but the phlegmatic man of northern European descent is both a stereotype and a role model - John Wayne, Gary Cooper, Humphrey Bogart etc.

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Response to muriel_volestrangler (Reply #11)

Sat Dec 15, 2012, 10:12 AM

18. Good point.

And also, however, that people tend to not call "anger" an emotion. Like, it's fine to express anger. But, don't cry. You'll be labelled emotional if you do. Which is bad.

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Response to reformist2 (Original post)

Sat Dec 15, 2012, 08:40 AM

3. I think that you are oversimplifying things

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Response to Fortinbras Armstrong (Reply #3)

Sat Dec 15, 2012, 10:07 AM

15. I definitely am. I think sometimes it helps to try to look at the big picture.


And I'm trying to figure out why so many straight guys today have such an obsession with violence and thuggishness, when this obviously never used to be the case.

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Response to reformist2 (Reply #15)

Sun Dec 16, 2012, 07:43 AM

22. If you think that men have only recently become obsessed with violence and "thuggishness"

Then I suspect you weren't paying attention during your history classes. It's been going on for millenia, literally.

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Response to reformist2 (Original post)

Sat Dec 15, 2012, 08:41 AM

4. I don't think it's anything new.....The United States was born in bloodshed and genocide.


It's always been a hyperviolent male culture.


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Response to reformist2 (Original post)

Sat Dec 15, 2012, 08:43 AM

5. If you want to tie this into the increasing number of mass shooting sprees

I think that's quite a stretch.

But you make a good point, though.

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Response to reformist2 (Original post)

Sat Dec 15, 2012, 08:52 AM

6. So how do you explain gay Marines and soldiers?

As a former Marine right offhand I can't think of a more hyper-macho environment than the Marine Corps and yet there seem to be quite a few gays who desire to be in that environment.

I think you are indulging in unwarranted stereotyping of both gay and straight males.



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Response to reformist2 (Original post)

Sat Dec 15, 2012, 08:57 AM

7. That's silly. In film, there are endless comedies aimed at young males

'gross-out' comedies and so on. The same goes for TV - there is loads of entertainment that is not "obviously tough, brutish, or violent".

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Response to muriel_volestrangler (Reply #7)

Sat Dec 15, 2012, 09:06 AM

10. I'll add one more category - boorish.


I will venture to say that of all the warped "straight guy" cultural themes, this is probably the least problematic.

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Response to reformist2 (Reply #10)

Sat Dec 15, 2012, 10:48 AM

19. boorish is pretty subjective

We laud Shakespeare's plays as high art, but they are stuffed full of lowbrow and boorish comedy.

And don't even get me started about the Canterbury Tales.

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Response to reformist2 (Original post)

Sat Dec 15, 2012, 09:05 AM

9. no. first of all there's far more acceptance of gay folks among young people now

then ever in the past.

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Response to cali (Reply #9)

Sat Dec 15, 2012, 09:09 AM

12. Even if 75% are accepting, what about the 25% that are still intolerant.


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Response to reformist2 (Original post)

Sat Dec 15, 2012, 09:16 AM

13. I'm gay, and am around teenagers all day.

They are far more likely to ridicule or be offended by something perceived as hyper-masculine than something perceived as "gay". These kids just don't care about sexuality differences anymore, the issue is settled for the vast majority of them.

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Response to teenagebambam (Reply #13)

Sat Dec 15, 2012, 09:23 AM

14. OK, this is good. Do you think the male proclivity towards violent entertainment is natural?


In other words, that so many boys being obsessed with shoot-em-up videogames is basically the free market at work, that no peer pressure is involved in making them avoid other types of entertainment?

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Response to reformist2 (Reply #14)

Sat Dec 15, 2012, 10:51 AM

20. I liked playing Castle Wolfenstein back in the day

because it was fun. Not because it had a slick marketing campaign (it didn't) and not because my friends liked it (they had no idea what it was).

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Response to reformist2 (Original post)

Sat Dec 15, 2012, 10:10 AM

16. Most of the LGBT people I know are geeks and gamers.

 

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Response to reformist2 (Original post)

Sat Dec 15, 2012, 10:11 AM

17. No, it is a reaction to female equality.

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Response to reformist2 (Original post)

Sat Dec 15, 2012, 11:08 AM

21. They didn't teach history where you went to school?

 

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Response to reformist2 (Original post)

Sun Dec 16, 2012, 07:56 AM

23. Hardly...

 

I don't think the claim of "hyper violent" applies.

Teenagers today come across as overly sensitive and weak.

As far as looking or acting "girly", modern fashion has blurred gender lines more than ever. Skinny jeans, "guy liner" etc... Etc...

Also, just because musicals aren't in fashion, it doesn't mean it is a jab at gay culture.

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Response to reformist2 (Original post)

Sun Dec 16, 2012, 08:04 AM

24. Ummm.... The murder rate is actually low now

Hasn't been this low since the 1960s

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