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Fri Dec 14, 2012, 11:32 PM

 

I call for a federal tax of $10 per grain on gun powder.

I've heard thoughts about taxing bullets.

Fuck that, tax gunpowder so you affect those who reload bullets, too!

$10/grain would be between $40 and $70 per average .45 caliber bullet depending upon the the weight of the bullet.

One pound of gun powder would cost an extra $70,000.

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Reply I call for a federal tax of $10 per grain on gun powder. (Original post)
RomneyLies Dec 2012 OP
rustydog Dec 2012 #1
RomneyLies Dec 2012 #2
Union Scribe Dec 2012 #21
Tuesday Afternoon Dec 2012 #37
Matariki Dec 2012 #3
Tumbulu Dec 2012 #4
RomneyLies Dec 2012 #6
Tumbulu Dec 2012 #11
BainsBane Dec 2012 #5
RomneyLies Dec 2012 #7
BainsBane Dec 2012 #8
RomneyLies Dec 2012 #9
BainsBane Dec 2012 #10
dmallind Dec 2012 #12
RomneyLies Dec 2012 #14
doc03 Dec 2012 #29
petronius Dec 2012 #13
RomneyLies Dec 2012 #16
petronius Dec 2012 #20
RomneyLies Dec 2012 #22
petronius Dec 2012 #24
RomneyLies Dec 2012 #26
Zoeisright Dec 2012 #35
petronius Dec 2012 #36
justanidea Dec 2012 #15
RomneyLies Dec 2012 #17
justanidea Dec 2012 #18
RomneyLies Dec 2012 #19
justanidea Dec 2012 #23
RomneyLies Dec 2012 #25
justanidea Dec 2012 #28
RomneyLies Dec 2012 #30
justanidea Dec 2012 #31
RomneyLies Dec 2012 #32
Lone_Star_Dem Dec 2012 #27
RomneyLies Dec 2012 #33
Marinedem Dec 2012 #34
LineLineNew Reply ~
Tuesday Afternoon Dec 2012 #38

Response to RomneyLies (Original post)

Fri Dec 14, 2012, 11:36 PM

1. Great piss of more gun nuts

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Response to rustydog (Reply #1)

Fri Dec 14, 2012, 11:37 PM

2. It would mean only the richest could even afford to kill 20 babies in the future. n/t

 

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Response to RomneyLies (Reply #2)

Sat Dec 15, 2012, 12:20 AM

21. The rich have different ways of killing children

and adults, and animals, and the planet...

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Response to Union Scribe (Reply #21)

Sat Dec 15, 2012, 10:11 AM

37. +1

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Response to RomneyLies (Original post)

Fri Dec 14, 2012, 11:38 PM

3. So only the rich can go on murderous rampages.

Great idea.

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Response to RomneyLies (Original post)

Fri Dec 14, 2012, 11:39 PM

4. Good idea- keep them coming!

We need all sorts of good ones like this- thank you!

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Response to Tumbulu (Reply #4)

Fri Dec 14, 2012, 11:45 PM

6. Want to hear something even more beautiful about this tax?

 

Those people who love THIS gun:



Would pay an extra $230 minimum per round.

These are the weapons that mass murderers use high capacity massacre magazines in.

So, for just a thirty round magazine, that's a cost of $6900 just in gunpowder tax minimum for one thirty round magazine. If they go for what the Aurora shooter used, that's $23,000 in gunpowder taxes alone for a full load.

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Response to RomneyLies (Reply #6)

Sat Dec 15, 2012, 12:05 AM

11. This idea keeps getting better and better!

Thanks!!!!!

Now we have to figure out how to implement it. I think this is the time to start.

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Response to RomneyLies (Original post)

Fri Dec 14, 2012, 11:40 PM

5. $10,000 per bullet

Chris Rock's idea is still a good one

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Response to BainsBane (Reply #5)

Fri Dec 14, 2012, 11:58 PM

7. Then the nuts just reload

 

Tax gunpowder is the answer. Expensive gunpowder = expensive bullets even if you reload.

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Response to RomneyLies (Reply #7)

Fri Dec 14, 2012, 11:59 PM

8. Once a bullet is in the body

You can't dig it out to reload. But whatever stops mass murder is fine by me.

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Response to BainsBane (Reply #8)

Sat Dec 15, 2012, 12:01 AM

9. Anybody can pour lead into a mold for the bullet portion of a cartridge

 

Taxing lead wouldn't help much because it's used in lots of things.

Gunpowder is used in one thing, bullet cartridges.

Tax gunpodwer and you increase the cost of every round in every gun regardless of how you get to that round.

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Response to RomneyLies (Reply #9)

Sat Dec 15, 2012, 12:03 AM

10. Okay

I have no expertise on the matter

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Response to RomneyLies (Original post)

Sat Dec 15, 2012, 12:09 AM

12. Tax sulfur, potassium nitrate and charcoal at $10 a grain?

It's not like it's a super-secret high-tech recipe.

You want to make fertilizers, fungicides, food presevers etc economically impossible?

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Response to dmallind (Reply #12)

Sat Dec 15, 2012, 12:11 AM

14. Smokeless gun powder is not something most people can cook up in their kitchen.

 

let alone some of the more exotic forms of gunpowder available these days.

Plus, the manufacture of gun powder is heavily regulated.

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Response to dmallind (Reply #12)

Sat Dec 15, 2012, 12:45 AM

29. LOL Reminds me of this

Kirk vs. Gorn

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Response to RomneyLies (Original post)

Sat Dec 15, 2012, 12:10 AM

13. Sounds clever, but there's zero chance that it would pass Constitutional muster

Consider this: if it would not be permissible to ban a given item or activity*, do you think any court would stand for an 'end-around' strategy (whether through taxation, or prohibiting a necessary precursor, or something else) that effectively banned the protected thing?

(* And in the case of firearms, as long as the Second Amendment exists this if is no if.)

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Response to petronius (Reply #13)

Sat Dec 15, 2012, 12:12 AM

16. Worked on cannabis.

 

It was a completely legal product, but was taxed out of legality and that tax was upheld by the SCOTUS.

The precedent for such taxation is long and strong. Congress has ultimate taxation authority.

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Response to RomneyLies (Reply #16)

Sat Dec 15, 2012, 12:19 AM

20. Perhaps, but there's no 420th Amendment to the Constitution



Congress has authority to tax, but like everything Congress does that power is subject to Constitutional limits. Using tax to effectively ban something that Congress is otherwise forbidden to infringe would not fly...

(And according to Wiki, the Marijuana Tax Act was ultimately deemed unconstitutional, albeit not for reasons that would be relevant to firearms.)

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Response to petronius (Reply #20)

Sat Dec 15, 2012, 12:23 AM

22. The Congress taxes lots of products and gunpowder is just another product

 

Congress taxes tobacco, alcohol, and tons of other products.

The authority is there.

And it does nothing to stop you from buying guns. It doesn't even stop you from buying ammunition. It simply taxes that ammunition to pay for the consequences of things like what happened today.

Also, the problem with the marihuana tax act was that it required producers to have a stamp, then the government never issued the stamp. Doesn't apply here. You are free to buy and own gunpowder, you just have to pay the tax.

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Response to RomneyLies (Reply #22)

Sat Dec 15, 2012, 12:26 AM

24. Forget about guns for a moment: do you really want Congress, or State

Legislatures, or any other government body, to be able to blow past the BoR simply by slapping a prohibitive tax on whatever the governmental agency happens not to like?

You're confusing two things here: yes, Congress can levy taxes. But no, Congress can not use exorbitant taxes to effectively ban things that Congress could not otherwise ban.

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Response to petronius (Reply #24)

Sat Dec 15, 2012, 12:30 AM

26. It would serve to regulate the citizen's militia that has a right to bear arms well. n/t

 

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Response to petronius (Reply #24)

Sat Dec 15, 2012, 01:49 AM

35. Yes. I do.

Gun nuts have this stupid idea that the Bill of Rights and the Constitution are inviolate. Times change. You can have as many fucking muskets as you want. That was the ORIGINAL intent of the 2nd amendment.

Other than muskets, ban guns. PERIOD.

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Response to Zoeisright (Reply #35)

Sat Dec 15, 2012, 02:17 AM

36. Do you support this as a general proposition (what I really asked) or just in

the case of guns?

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Response to RomneyLies (Original post)

Sat Dec 15, 2012, 12:11 AM

15. This is stupid.

 

If you want to ban gun ownership, just come out and say it.

This wannabe sneaky crap is a waste of bandwidth.

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Response to justanidea (Reply #15)

Sat Dec 15, 2012, 12:14 AM

17. Own as many guns as you want, I don't give a shit.

 

If you want gunpowder, pay an extra $10/grain.

Congress has absolute authority to tax gun powder at any level they choose under Article 1 of the constitution. The SCOTUS has upheld this power on numerous occasions.

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Response to RomneyLies (Reply #17)

Sat Dec 15, 2012, 12:15 AM

18. Did they uphold poll taxes?

 

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Response to justanidea (Reply #18)

Sat Dec 15, 2012, 12:17 AM

19. The Congress never passed a poll tax

 

On top of that, poll taxes are not taxes on products.

We tax tobacco, alcohol, and numerous other items.

Gunpowder is just another product ripe for taxation.

$10/grain. It'll solve a lot of problems.

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Response to RomneyLies (Reply #19)

Sat Dec 15, 2012, 12:25 AM

23. Stop being silly.

 

The court would rule a tax that massive a defacto ban.

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Response to justanidea (Reply #23)

Sat Dec 15, 2012, 12:29 AM

25. No, they wouldn't

 

It's not a ban. A ban prohibits an item. A tax that is ruled a ban is a tax that provides conditions that cannot be upheld and becomes a de facto ban.

A tax of $10/grain on gunpowder does not prohibit gunpowder. Pay the tax, own the gun powder. No problem.

The taxes on other items are also high. Gasoline, petroleum products, tobacco (incredibly high) alcohol (also incredibly high) are all taxes on products and are 100% within th realm of the Congress.

$10/grain is simply a tax on a product. Want the product, pay the tax. It's that simple. No ban. No prohibition. simply a tax.

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Response to RomneyLies (Reply #25)

Sat Dec 15, 2012, 12:45 AM

28. The tax on gas or alochol isn't so high

 

that filling your tank or getting drunk requires you to remortgage your house. Comparing the gasoline tax to your proposed gun powder tax is absolutely absurd. If your proposed tax was a few dollars per box of ammo, then you might have an argument.

A 50 round box of 9mm ammo is about $12. Assuming an average 9mm round has 6 grains of powder (certain powders are hotter than others, and thus less powder is used per round, in case you didn't know) that would mean a box of 9mm would now cost $3,012.

That is a tax rate of 25,000%.

Find me another product with a tax rate that high.

Hell for me to go to the range once a month to practice (like I and most gun owners do) would cost me $180,000 per year.

Of course I dont even know why I'm bothering to debate all this, since this is obviously a troll post.



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Response to justanidea (Reply #28)

Sat Dec 15, 2012, 12:53 AM

30. Congress has the authority

 

I want the tax, so I will be pushing it with Congress. With any luck, people who want to see an end to the shit that happened today will join me.

Regardless, ownership of guns is about to be severely altered. There's no stopping it now.

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Response to RomneyLies (Reply #30)

Sat Dec 15, 2012, 12:55 AM

31. You can push the tax all you want

 

To be honest your time would be better spent trying to convert the moon into a giant gold nugget using nothing but psychic powers. That would probably have a better chance of success than a 25,000% tax on ammunition.

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Response to justanidea (Reply #31)

Sat Dec 15, 2012, 01:04 AM

32. you've certainly blown past ignoring this right to laughing at it

 

Next you'll fight it.

Then I win.

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Response to RomneyLies (Original post)

Sat Dec 15, 2012, 12:37 AM

27. One word. Fireworks.

Not as in it's going to cause some, but you forgot gunpowder is also used in them. The fireworks lobbyist would kill it before it goes anywhere.

There are certain nails you "shoot" into concrete which also need gunpowder.

Keep thinking outside the box, though. That's how things get done in the world.

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Response to Lone_Star_Dem (Reply #27)

Sat Dec 15, 2012, 01:05 AM

33. No need for fireworks

 

Fuck it. Tax that shit, too.

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Response to RomneyLies (Original post)

Sat Dec 15, 2012, 01:27 AM

34. Back in my day,

 

Trolling meant something.

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Response to Marinedem (Reply #34)

Sat Dec 15, 2012, 10:15 AM

38. ~

At Sat Dec 15, 2012, 09:08 AM an alert was sent on the following post:

Back in my day,
http://www.democraticunderground.com/?com=view_post&forum=1002&pid=1987435

REASON FOR ALERT:

This post is disruptive, hurtful, rude, insensitive, over-the-top, or otherwise inappropriate. (See <a href="http://www.democraticunderground.com/?com=aboutus#communitystandards" target="_blank">Community Standards</a>.)

ALERTER'S COMMENTS:

Troll accusation

You served on a randomly-selected Jury of DU members which reviewed this post. The review was completed at Sat Dec 15, 2012, 09:14 AM, and the Jury voted 2-4 to LEAVE IT.

Juror #1 voted to LEAVE IT ALONE and said: On the one hand, the post does suggest the OP is a troll. On the other hand, the OP does not really come across as a troll. Suggest the alerter just let it go and move on...
Juror #2 voted to LEAVE IT ALONE and said: rotflmao
Juror #3 voted to HIDE IT and said: No explanation given
Juror #4 voted to LEAVE IT ALONE and said: No explanation given
Juror #5 voted to LEAVE IT ALONE and said: Well, the OP is trolling.
Juror #6 voted to HIDE IT and said: Troll accusation and I don't think the OP is actually trolling.

Thank you very much for participating in our Jury system, and we hope you will be able to participate again in the future.

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